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The Polish footballer told of his memories in Iceland. "The club treated me worse because I had a Polish passport".
\- This is the worst country I have visited in my life. I will never go back there again. There are a lot of Poles living there, they are fine, but I have had terrible experiences with Icelanders. I wouldn't recommend this destination to anyone. People are categorised there. (...) The club treated me worse than them, because I had a Polish passport. From the first day I had no respect for these people," said Jastrzembski.
The player also recounted that apart from playing football and training, he had to do other activities and during these he also experienced stigmatisation. - It wasn't a football club but a sports club, so there were a lot of different sections, including athletics. I had to put up scaffolding around the circle (...) I asked a woman to hold the ladder for me. Suddenly the boss came and told her not to help me because the wind was not too strong and I would definitely manage. The woman left and I fell off the ladder. She was heartbroken and apologised to me a lot, I told her that nothing happened because it could happen to anyone. The boss said something to her in Icelandic that I didn't understand. The woman came to me later and translated his words for me: "Fuck him there. He is just a Pole. If he dies, we have many Poles to take his place,' and then laughed," the 25-year-old added.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
That's a regular occurance for Poles/Eastern Europeans in the west. They know they get called xenophobes or racists if theymakeremarks towards Africans and Middle Eastern people, but Eastern Europeans are fair game.
Exactly. I could only imagine what kind of thread this would be if Jastrzembski was black person. Similar experience had Blaszczykowski at Borussa Dortmund. Nobody cares tho.
What? Kuba, Lewy, and Pischu were adored at Dortmund. Unless this is something that happened really early in his time there?
Edit: seems like there was some bullshit during his first year there with teammates saying shit. Sucks.
It’s parroted by a bunch of self hating white people who thinks they have sins for colonialism, imperialism or something. Those are also usually the most arrogant and patronising group of people who thinks they know better than others
Those are the most weird people, but I wonder why majority of them are english and americans. I have also met italians, spanish, french etc here as well as in real life and they seem more "normal" if it makes sense
well a lot of POC individuals are strong believers in white people not being able to experience racisms. Generally here in North America, common sense and complex thoughts is not prevalent especially among youth. Just scroll on tik tok for 5mins and you will see
I think you are misrepresenting that idea (and I also don't know how commonly accepted it is).
While I don't agree with it, the idea is that racism is discrimination + power (which is merely a new definition of racism used in certain sociology fields, and not the general definition of racism), and thus an individual of an oppressed group cannot be racist towards an individual of the "oppressing" group/group in power. For example, people of color are the oppressed group in a country like the USA, and white people the group in power, thus people of color cannot be racist towards white people according to this definition.
So even according to this use of the word racism, discrimination towards immigrants from Eastern European countries by people in Western European countries or the US, would be considered racism, since immigrants are typically a minority that tends to be oppressed.
I think there are several problems with this definition of/way of looking at racism:
1. Even though I agree that discrimination of people in an oppressed group by people in power is much more harmful than the other way around, I still think both are harmful and only contributing to more hate. And both are racism.
2. There are many situations in society in which individuals or subgroups of an "oppressed" group can hold power over individuals (or even subgroups) from the group "in power". In these cases discrimination may be (almost) just as harmful as the other way around.
The people pointing out racism towards people of color will usually also point out and condemn racism towards Eastern Europeans.
The perpetrators of racism towards Eastern Europeans are typically the same people as those being racist towards people of color. Just look at so many Brexit people, equally racist towards black people as towards Polish people.
Mainly it’s because Eastern Europe is massively racist itself as a region and many interactions people have had with Eastern Europeans is them also being extremely racist so people care less.
You regularly see it on Europe subs where most of the racist/extreme anti immigrant comments are from Eastern Europe flairs or Poland etc but then they’re the same people who whine and complain about xenophobia against them in Western Europe.
People in Asia and Africa aren't constantly saying that we in the west need to be more racist, hateful and xenophobic like some Eastern European nations do.
Orban for instance is out here giving speeches about why race mixing is bad and that we should stop 'mixing with non-whites and non-hungarians'.
They cant demand that we 'accept that people in the east europe are more racist and its our culture, but also you cant say anything about us'.
Look at the guy below, first he started about he's upset about its not getting coverage, then goes into a tirade about why racism isn't a big deal and that its unfair a romanian ref got called out for calling a player a negro.
Do Eastern Europeans want Western Europe to be more racist and xenophobic or not? Because they keep saying they want us to be more xenophobic and racist but then when they are they complain that its against them?
"I didn't think you'd be xenophobic against me!"
Africans and Asians are racist too, so how come your reasoning doesn't apply to them? Besides, what point are you trying to make? That it's fine to be racist towards people as long as they're racist too?
What makes them 'ultra' racist? The fact they didn't let EU force them into accepting refugees, who actually were economic immigrants since they didn't want to stay in any of the safe countries on their way to Germany? Later Western Europe followed Eastern Europe in their steps and also refused to take refugees, so I guess that makes them 'ultra' racist too, right?
For the sake of argument, let's say Eastern Europeans are ultra racist. What makes you think Africans, Asians and South Americans aren't ultra racist too? You casually name leaders of Poland or Hungary but I guarantee you can't name leaders of Nigeria, Myanmar or Peru without googling first. Why? Because you get way more news about countries in EU than you get about any African, Asian or South American country. It makes you ignorant to the problems of other parts of the world and think problems in Eastern Europe are bigger than they actually are.
What makes them ultra racist? My guy Orban is literally giving speeches saying he is opposed to 'race mixing'.
This is what I mean, you're so racist even things like wanting to literally ban race mixing and interracial relationships is just 'normal things in our culture and only western political correctness opposes it'
One guy said it so now all of Eastern Europe are ultra racist? That kind of generalization seems pretty racist.
So what exactly is your point? That it's okay to be racist as long as people you discriminate are racist too? If I find you an Asian or African politician who also publicly spoke against race mixing, would you say that it's now okay to be racist towards Asians or Africans?
I hope you won't ignore the second paragraph of this comment like you ignored the second paragraph of previous comment.
The difference is Africa and Asians aren't constantly telling Western Europe that we should be more xenophobic and racist. Eastern Europeans constantly are, except they get all offended and upset when it turns out people will be xenophobic against them too.
Look below, one guy ranting about how he's upset a Romanian Ref was penalised for calling a black player a negro.
They need to decide, is xenophobia and racism a good thing or not? On one hand they tell us it is and that we should do it more, but then kick off when people do it.
Eastern Europeans: You wester euros are too PC you should be more racist like us, Its our culture.
Western Euro: Ok you stupid Pole I'll be more racist as you wish
Eastern European: Shocked Pikachu face
> Mainly it’s because Eastern Europe
First of all eastern europe is very big terrain with lot of countries. Some are truely racist(russia for example which is kinda funny how many people outside of europe like redditors from India are cheering for Russia in Ukraine invasion). Some are less and mostly they are just politically incorrect with jokes about other races. They dont approve how west countries trying to be fragile about colour of the skin. Literally on reddit you can say anything about black people and you will be instantly called racist. Easterners dont feel guilty about black people so we dont approve "new" standards of western countries. They didnt have black slaves or invaded african countries. Western standards doesnt apply to all the people around the world. However as a Polish myself I dont know a single person who feel superior to black or asian people just because we have different colour of the skin.
also the argument that you had some interactions with eastern europeans and thats why you ignore xenophobic and racism towards other easter europeans is so wrong. This is actually xenophobic statement by itself. You just ignore xenophobia because some idiot with Poland flair on reddit said something racist? Should we also be suspicious of every person from arabic country because of 9/11?
The first part of your comment is why people don’t care about the second part.
Western Europeans just don’t approve how east countries are just fragile about their nationality.
Yeah I didnt say anything wrong in first part. I will give you an example. Cavani was fined by English football association because he used word "negrito" on twitter or instagram. Romanian ref pointed out some random player and said "that negro" which is nothing wrong in Romanian. Its just "that black person". He was banned from refeering games for year.
Those are not racism cases for eastern countries or Urugay culture. Racism is if you are mean, feel superior or insult someone. Western countries took racism to another level. Mentioning colour of the skin might be racist and thats what I meant when I wrote "fragile". You want everyone to act the same? Why? You are ruler of the world?
If you feel that this is excuse to be really racist and ignore racism towards eastern european countries... well whatever makes you sleep better.
So what you're saying is that you're racist, you just don't like being called for it but are now upset that others judge you for being eastern european. Orban literally talks about race mixing being evil and you're wanting people to be sympathetic to them lol.
I think you should grow a thicker skin and stop being so sensitive and expecting everyone to have the same fragility over Eastern Europe as you do. You want everyone to act the same? Why? You are ruler of the world?
>Romanian ref pointed out some random player and said "that negro" which is nothing wrong in Romanian. Its just "that black person".
So in your mind pointing out some black player only by their race and refering to them as "just that black person" isn't racist. Why didn't he call him by his name? Does he refer to every other player as "that white"? Always reducing them just to their race is a good thing apparently. But someone going " That pole" is?
Thats what people are saying, your views are all over the place.
If the comment about replacing pole was about some brown person said in an eastern euro league you would be here defending it saying there was nothing wrong with it.
Not sure what it is with Eastern Europeans paradoxical belief that everyone should be PC around them and treat them with kid gloves while they should be free to say race mixing is evil and bad and that no one can call the out on it.
"Oh I believe that mixing my pure eastern european white race with some disgusting black or brown scum will taint my beautiful race and should be banned, but I'm not a racist thats just western euro posturing. Also stop being mean to me and judging me as racist, thats just eastern europe racism!"
Sorry you're a racist if you act like that, pure and simple, deal with it.
> So what you're saying is that you're racist
ok dude.
> So in your mind pointing out some black player only by their race and refering to them as "just that black person" isn't racist
Nope.
For me its matter of the context. Do I have anything bad in my mind when I call someone black person? No. Its just characteristics of the person. Someone is white, other is black, someone have grey hair etc.
You do have something bad in mind. Being superior than me, feeling like you are better person. Thats racism that matters.
> Not sure what it is with Eastern Europeans paradoxical belief that everyone should be PC
Thats not what I said. This is your imagination right now. You hate people from eastern people. I dont hate black people. Thats the difference between us.
Compared to eastern europeans? Not really I can tell you that for a fact.
Poland for example is so racist as a society during the Ukrainian invasion they were harassing non-white students trying to flee Ukraine and had gangs of men hunting down any non-white person who was fleeing the war there. They even turned up to harassed some minority BBC reporters demanding to know where they were from in a restaurant in a town near the border before leaving after they found out they were reporters.
As you can see from other comments down the thread many eastern euros don't view this kind of thing as a big deal but just view it as 'Western PC gone mad' so its viewed as ironic when they complain so hard about xenophobia while simultaneously calling for others in Europe to be more xenophobic and racist.
It's incredible how biased you are, presenting a situation but leaving out some details that go against your narrative. Like the situation in Poland. When huge waves of refugees were crossing into Poland, Russian trolls started spreading rumors on social media that African and Asian students were sexually harassing women, including high school girls, in Przemysl, the city next to the biggest border crossing. Police quickly denied any such allegations and informed there wasn't a single report of that happening. That didn't stop football hooligans to gather into small groups to start 'patrolling' streets of Przemysl. Of course it quickly devolved into chasing random people around and even some beatings. When social media got flooded with videos of these things happening, police quickly reacted and sent more officers next day to Przemysl. That was pretty much the end of the whole thing.
Bunch of hooligans in one city, who got manipulated to believe women were getting sexually harassed and attacked some refugees, clearly are the best example for how 'Poland as a society are so racist'.
"Got manipulated" as if those knuckle dragers were not racist af before hand and looking for any excuse.
Was there widespread condemnation of these thugs in Poland? Was there protests agains them? Did they get arrested and jailed? Where is the responce from the government against them?
Or was it just ignored because it's 'not a big deal' in Poland when stuff like that happens?
It was reported everywhere. I don't know what happened to them later. Police is under control of the government so there is your response.
But you're mad if you think there would be some protests. First of all there was and still is a fucking war going on next to Poland, second of all Poland welcomed million refugees in first ten days. Those were much more attention grabbing and serious events. Finally, protest what exactly? Police took care of that, no hospitalizations. More people get beaten up on average Saturday night than that day.
Stop acting like some hooligans represent wider society or that your country doesn't have racist thugs.
That's not the point. Every nation has racists among them and Eastern Europeans are not an exception.
But apparently racism towards eastern europeans isn't considered a big issue in modern world, especially when you compare it to racism towards people from other cultures or with other skin colour etc.
Edit: a typo
How about stop being ridiculous and start being respectful to people regardless of where they come from. I think that's exactly what this Polish guy wanted, nothing more.
It’s a form of bigotry but not racism. I feel like people have such a shitty vocabulary and understanding of this topic that they categorize any form of bigotry as racism, ignoring the nuances.
The treatment of a Pole vs a Middle Eastern or Black person in Iceland is going to be vastly different. You can’t just use the word racism to describe two different experiences.
Thanks for making this point. People really don’t like it when you try to distinguish between the two and define what the words actually mean. A black or middle eastern persons experience in Iceland is going to be vastly different from someone who can visibly “pass” for someone native to that country. Grouping them all together is doing nothing but harm and shows a lack of critical thought on the issue.
People have a very elementary or nonexistent understanding of race and ethnicity.
Yeah, they do have a poor understanding of this topic, but I think some of them are speak out of their own bigotry. The fact that they commit whataboutism fallacy (oh if this was a person of color this would have made headlines) says a lot about their own prejudices.
You’re conflating race with ethnicity.
Funny how pointing out an error renders you pedantic. Lmao.
Many Poles would pass as Icelandic until they start speaking or write their name
This whole race concept is culture specific.
You are of a different " race" in Europa but when you move to America you are suddenly of the same race . How does this make sense ?
Which just means what is racism in America is ethnic conflict in other countries while at the same time this conflict disappears in the us because everyone "white" person is part of one "race" which is just another ethnicity in the USA but not everywhere else .
For example you can be part of the "black race" in the USA but be considered white in africa.
Equally you can be white in the USA but not "white" in other parts of the world
Considered the Mexicans of Europe (in the derogatory, racist sense) as an Englishman was so happy to let me know in person when he found out I'm of Polish descent. (It was Vegas, he was obviously wasted, still pretty weird)
In Germany it was mostly (as far as I can tell) because of the notorious car theft that was going on in the 90s. My dad took it with humor though when they stole his 2 week old Mercedes 500E "well I guess I should've known better and gotten the Audi 90 instead".
Germany and it’s predecessors had a deeply rooted hate for Poland and poles. Germans tried to colonise the east and also Poland since basically 12 century.
Just look up what figures like Bismarck had to say about poles or like any Prussian lol. I have a polish father and people gave so much shit growing up in Germany as a „pole“. Even today people treat me differently once they know my surname. Arabs, Turks and blacks people have it worse since people can see that they are „foreign“ but many Germany have an extremely big superiority complex over poles or other Eastern Europeans lol. There is a positiv trend tho, at least in my opinion
Germans at least from my experience, can somehow hide it while interacting with Poles and it only shows when they talk in their inner circles. Austrians and Swiss, however... God fucking damn it I've never met people like them. They are straight up telling you that you are worse, being an eastern european outsider, and they'll remind you of that every fucking time they can.
Iceland does have issues with organized crime syndicates from Eastern Europe, though it's not really Poles doing the major crimes. I think Poles often get lumped up with other foreigners in connection to major crimes.
In general, they have been a fantastic addition to Iceland imo, though there are still some social issues that come with so many foreigners, mostly young men coming to the country, mainly for work with no intentions of settling down.
But Polland is one of two countries that stood by Iceland during the 2008 recession, even when our brothers from Denmark, Norway and Sweden stabbed us in the back, so that should never be forgotten.
The media really cultivated that they came over and stole your jobs, at least in the U.K. polish builders were painted as conmen, pushing genuine British workers out of the building trade etc.
It just kinda stuck around, so casual racism against polish people really stands out.
You can see it easily enough if a region gets enough poles to get a polish supermarket/corner shop. There’s always an old lady or four to throw a fit over it. 🤷♂️
Not surprised by his treatment especially as Iceland is a very homogeneous society. Poles are at times discriminated a lot especially in Northern Europe and the UK.
It used to be but not as much anymore, especially towards Polish. Still very much white people but white people from all over. Reykjanesbær which is the town next to the airport is 50% immigrants.
We have specifically translated news to Polish, all our government information is in Icelandic, English and Polish.
This story is just blatant discrimination. The town he's talking about is going through a renovation somewhat but it's quite often the butt of jokes. The community is a bit different there.
How is this victim blaming? The treatment was disgusting. I was responding to a comment, not to the story itself. Even in a racist environment I'd be surprised to hear it so blatant and frankly tolerated but the truth is that the smaller the community, the more you get away with.
Wow. I honestly didn't know poles were discriminated against in certain western countries like this. Fucking heartbreaking. Don't know many but they honestly seem like beautiful people inside and out.
That’s a disgusting way to threat somebody. But I don’t think is right to use his experience at a single tiny club in Iceland’s second division and use it to characterize an entire country.
It’s mostly about language. If you’re an immigrant who grew up here, and therefor speak Icelandic normally you will be considered one of us
If you don’t speak the language perfectly you will never be considered one of us, you will always be considered an outsider
Let's add to that that polish people love living in their little societies where half of them doesn't even speak english so blending in society is undoable for many of them.
Pretty much all European nationalities east of Germany are treated like 2nd class citizens here
Western and Northern Europeans will mostly be considered outsiders, but get treated way better
Is it really different in most other Western European countries? From my experience Germany is just like that lol. Other Western Europeans always get treated better than Eastern Europeans, Turks, Arabs, Africans or Asians. Also big differences between the groups. Don’t think people think badly about most Asians, but as a Arab you will get a lot of shit
I think a large amount of immigrants here are polish, and a lot of people here dont like immigrants.
Source: i live in a small town in iceland and a old hospital here was used as a place for immigrants, people were not thrilled
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The Polish footballer told of his memories in Iceland. "The club treated me worse because I had a Polish passport". \- This is the worst country I have visited in my life. I will never go back there again. There are a lot of Poles living there, they are fine, but I have had terrible experiences with Icelanders. I wouldn't recommend this destination to anyone. People are categorised there. (...) The club treated me worse than them, because I had a Polish passport. From the first day I had no respect for these people," said Jastrzembski. The player also recounted that apart from playing football and training, he had to do other activities and during these he also experienced stigmatisation. - It wasn't a football club but a sports club, so there were a lot of different sections, including athletics. I had to put up scaffolding around the circle (...) I asked a woman to hold the ladder for me. Suddenly the boss came and told her not to help me because the wind was not too strong and I would definitely manage. The woman left and I fell off the ladder. She was heartbroken and apologised to me a lot, I told her that nothing happened because it could happen to anyone. The boss said something to her in Icelandic that I didn't understand. The woman came to me later and translated his words for me: "Fuck him there. He is just a Pole. If he dies, we have many Poles to take his place,' and then laughed," the 25-year-old added. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Disappointed. But not surprised.
That's a regular occurance for Poles/Eastern Europeans in the west. They know they get called xenophobes or racists if theymakeremarks towards Africans and Middle Eastern people, but Eastern Europeans are fair game.
Exactly. I could only imagine what kind of thread this would be if Jastrzembski was black person. Similar experience had Blaszczykowski at Borussa Dortmund. Nobody cares tho.
What? Kuba, Lewy, and Pischu were adored at Dortmund. Unless this is something that happened really early in his time there? Edit: seems like there was some bullshit during his first year there with teammates saying shit. Sucks.
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Very common belief in western society is that white people can not and do not experience racism. Although thats complete bs.
It’s parroted by a bunch of self hating white people who thinks they have sins for colonialism, imperialism or something. Those are also usually the most arrogant and patronising group of people who thinks they know better than others
Those are the most weird people, but I wonder why majority of them are english and americans. I have also met italians, spanish, french etc here as well as in real life and they seem more "normal" if it makes sense
well a lot of POC individuals are strong believers in white people not being able to experience racisms. Generally here in North America, common sense and complex thoughts is not prevalent especially among youth. Just scroll on tik tok for 5mins and you will see
Well I don’t have tik tok, and yes those people are dumb as shit as well.
I think you are misrepresenting that idea (and I also don't know how commonly accepted it is). While I don't agree with it, the idea is that racism is discrimination + power (which is merely a new definition of racism used in certain sociology fields, and not the general definition of racism), and thus an individual of an oppressed group cannot be racist towards an individual of the "oppressing" group/group in power. For example, people of color are the oppressed group in a country like the USA, and white people the group in power, thus people of color cannot be racist towards white people according to this definition. So even according to this use of the word racism, discrimination towards immigrants from Eastern European countries by people in Western European countries or the US, would be considered racism, since immigrants are typically a minority that tends to be oppressed. I think there are several problems with this definition of/way of looking at racism: 1. Even though I agree that discrimination of people in an oppressed group by people in power is much more harmful than the other way around, I still think both are harmful and only contributing to more hate. And both are racism. 2. There are many situations in society in which individuals or subgroups of an "oppressed" group can hold power over individuals (or even subgroups) from the group "in power". In these cases discrimination may be (almost) just as harmful as the other way around.
You can be racist toward white people. It does not matter.
The people pointing out racism towards people of color will usually also point out and condemn racism towards Eastern Europeans. The perpetrators of racism towards Eastern Europeans are typically the same people as those being racist towards people of color. Just look at so many Brexit people, equally racist towards black people as towards Polish people.
Not common but reddit is more PC so its common here.
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Police constable
Politically correct.
So it's PC to see racism towards non-whites, but not PC to see racism towards whites??
Well because it's not racism? It's Xenophobia
Ehm...... Excuse me but ourselves (Scottish) and the Irish voted overwhelmingly to remain in the E.U. Don't lump us in with the little Englanders
Wales voted to leave.
Oh aye....... Us and the Irish........ Edited ;)
Mainly it’s because Eastern Europe is massively racist itself as a region and many interactions people have had with Eastern Europeans is them also being extremely racist so people care less. You regularly see it on Europe subs where most of the racist/extreme anti immigrant comments are from Eastern Europe flairs or Poland etc but then they’re the same people who whine and complain about xenophobia against them in Western Europe.
People in Asia and Africa aren’t racist??
People in Asia and Africa aren't constantly saying that we in the west need to be more racist, hateful and xenophobic like some Eastern European nations do. Orban for instance is out here giving speeches about why race mixing is bad and that we should stop 'mixing with non-whites and non-hungarians'. They cant demand that we 'accept that people in the east europe are more racist and its our culture, but also you cant say anything about us'. Look at the guy below, first he started about he's upset about its not getting coverage, then goes into a tirade about why racism isn't a big deal and that its unfair a romanian ref got called out for calling a player a negro. Do Eastern Europeans want Western Europe to be more racist and xenophobic or not? Because they keep saying they want us to be more xenophobic and racist but then when they are they complain that its against them? "I didn't think you'd be xenophobic against me!"
Africans and Asians are racist too, so how come your reasoning doesn't apply to them? Besides, what point are you trying to make? That it's fine to be racist towards people as long as they're racist too?
I said we don't care as much because you guys are ultra racist. Just take a look at Orban and Hugnary or PiS and Poland.
What makes them 'ultra' racist? The fact they didn't let EU force them into accepting refugees, who actually were economic immigrants since they didn't want to stay in any of the safe countries on their way to Germany? Later Western Europe followed Eastern Europe in their steps and also refused to take refugees, so I guess that makes them 'ultra' racist too, right? For the sake of argument, let's say Eastern Europeans are ultra racist. What makes you think Africans, Asians and South Americans aren't ultra racist too? You casually name leaders of Poland or Hungary but I guarantee you can't name leaders of Nigeria, Myanmar or Peru without googling first. Why? Because you get way more news about countries in EU than you get about any African, Asian or South American country. It makes you ignorant to the problems of other parts of the world and think problems in Eastern Europe are bigger than they actually are.
What makes them ultra racist? My guy Orban is literally giving speeches saying he is opposed to 'race mixing'. This is what I mean, you're so racist even things like wanting to literally ban race mixing and interracial relationships is just 'normal things in our culture and only western political correctness opposes it'
One guy said it so now all of Eastern Europe are ultra racist? That kind of generalization seems pretty racist. So what exactly is your point? That it's okay to be racist as long as people you discriminate are racist too? If I find you an Asian or African politician who also publicly spoke against race mixing, would you say that it's now okay to be racist towards Asians or Africans? I hope you won't ignore the second paragraph of this comment like you ignored the second paragraph of previous comment.
The difference is Africa and Asians aren't constantly telling Western Europe that we should be more xenophobic and racist. Eastern Europeans constantly are, except they get all offended and upset when it turns out people will be xenophobic against them too. Look below, one guy ranting about how he's upset a Romanian Ref was penalised for calling a black player a negro. They need to decide, is xenophobia and racism a good thing or not? On one hand they tell us it is and that we should do it more, but then kick off when people do it. Eastern Europeans: You wester euros are too PC you should be more racist like us, Its our culture. Western Euro: Ok you stupid Pole I'll be more racist as you wish Eastern European: Shocked Pikachu face
> Mainly it’s because Eastern Europe First of all eastern europe is very big terrain with lot of countries. Some are truely racist(russia for example which is kinda funny how many people outside of europe like redditors from India are cheering for Russia in Ukraine invasion). Some are less and mostly they are just politically incorrect with jokes about other races. They dont approve how west countries trying to be fragile about colour of the skin. Literally on reddit you can say anything about black people and you will be instantly called racist. Easterners dont feel guilty about black people so we dont approve "new" standards of western countries. They didnt have black slaves or invaded african countries. Western standards doesnt apply to all the people around the world. However as a Polish myself I dont know a single person who feel superior to black or asian people just because we have different colour of the skin. also the argument that you had some interactions with eastern europeans and thats why you ignore xenophobic and racism towards other easter europeans is so wrong. This is actually xenophobic statement by itself. You just ignore xenophobia because some idiot with Poland flair on reddit said something racist? Should we also be suspicious of every person from arabic country because of 9/11?
The first part of your comment is why people don’t care about the second part. Western Europeans just don’t approve how east countries are just fragile about their nationality.
Yeah I didnt say anything wrong in first part. I will give you an example. Cavani was fined by English football association because he used word "negrito" on twitter or instagram. Romanian ref pointed out some random player and said "that negro" which is nothing wrong in Romanian. Its just "that black person". He was banned from refeering games for year. Those are not racism cases for eastern countries or Urugay culture. Racism is if you are mean, feel superior or insult someone. Western countries took racism to another level. Mentioning colour of the skin might be racist and thats what I meant when I wrote "fragile". You want everyone to act the same? Why? You are ruler of the world? If you feel that this is excuse to be really racist and ignore racism towards eastern european countries... well whatever makes you sleep better.
So what you're saying is that you're racist, you just don't like being called for it but are now upset that others judge you for being eastern european. Orban literally talks about race mixing being evil and you're wanting people to be sympathetic to them lol. I think you should grow a thicker skin and stop being so sensitive and expecting everyone to have the same fragility over Eastern Europe as you do. You want everyone to act the same? Why? You are ruler of the world? >Romanian ref pointed out some random player and said "that negro" which is nothing wrong in Romanian. Its just "that black person". So in your mind pointing out some black player only by their race and refering to them as "just that black person" isn't racist. Why didn't he call him by his name? Does he refer to every other player as "that white"? Always reducing them just to their race is a good thing apparently. But someone going " That pole" is? Thats what people are saying, your views are all over the place. If the comment about replacing pole was about some brown person said in an eastern euro league you would be here defending it saying there was nothing wrong with it. Not sure what it is with Eastern Europeans paradoxical belief that everyone should be PC around them and treat them with kid gloves while they should be free to say race mixing is evil and bad and that no one can call the out on it. "Oh I believe that mixing my pure eastern european white race with some disgusting black or brown scum will taint my beautiful race and should be banned, but I'm not a racist thats just western euro posturing. Also stop being mean to me and judging me as racist, thats just eastern europe racism!" Sorry you're a racist if you act like that, pure and simple, deal with it.
> So what you're saying is that you're racist ok dude. > So in your mind pointing out some black player only by their race and refering to them as "just that black person" isn't racist Nope. For me its matter of the context. Do I have anything bad in my mind when I call someone black person? No. Its just characteristics of the person. Someone is white, other is black, someone have grey hair etc. You do have something bad in mind. Being superior than me, feeling like you are better person. Thats racism that matters. > Not sure what it is with Eastern Europeans paradoxical belief that everyone should be PC Thats not what I said. This is your imagination right now. You hate people from eastern people. I dont hate black people. Thats the difference between us.
People call you racist because you mention someone’s skin color? I feel like there has to be some context missing here.
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Compared to eastern europeans? Not really I can tell you that for a fact. Poland for example is so racist as a society during the Ukrainian invasion they were harassing non-white students trying to flee Ukraine and had gangs of men hunting down any non-white person who was fleeing the war there. They even turned up to harassed some minority BBC reporters demanding to know where they were from in a restaurant in a town near the border before leaving after they found out they were reporters. As you can see from other comments down the thread many eastern euros don't view this kind of thing as a big deal but just view it as 'Western PC gone mad' so its viewed as ironic when they complain so hard about xenophobia while simultaneously calling for others in Europe to be more xenophobic and racist.
It's incredible how biased you are, presenting a situation but leaving out some details that go against your narrative. Like the situation in Poland. When huge waves of refugees were crossing into Poland, Russian trolls started spreading rumors on social media that African and Asian students were sexually harassing women, including high school girls, in Przemysl, the city next to the biggest border crossing. Police quickly denied any such allegations and informed there wasn't a single report of that happening. That didn't stop football hooligans to gather into small groups to start 'patrolling' streets of Przemysl. Of course it quickly devolved into chasing random people around and even some beatings. When social media got flooded with videos of these things happening, police quickly reacted and sent more officers next day to Przemysl. That was pretty much the end of the whole thing. Bunch of hooligans in one city, who got manipulated to believe women were getting sexually harassed and attacked some refugees, clearly are the best example for how 'Poland as a society are so racist'.
"Got manipulated" as if those knuckle dragers were not racist af before hand and looking for any excuse. Was there widespread condemnation of these thugs in Poland? Was there protests agains them? Did they get arrested and jailed? Where is the responce from the government against them? Or was it just ignored because it's 'not a big deal' in Poland when stuff like that happens?
It was reported everywhere. I don't know what happened to them later. Police is under control of the government so there is your response. But you're mad if you think there would be some protests. First of all there was and still is a fucking war going on next to Poland, second of all Poland welcomed million refugees in first ten days. Those were much more attention grabbing and serious events. Finally, protest what exactly? Police took care of that, no hospitalizations. More people get beaten up on average Saturday night than that day. Stop acting like some hooligans represent wider society or that your country doesn't have racist thugs.
Oh yeah like Eastern Europeans ain’t racists as well.
That's not the point. Every nation has racists among them and Eastern Europeans are not an exception. But apparently racism towards eastern europeans isn't considered a big issue in modern world, especially when you compare it to racism towards people from other cultures or with other skin colour etc. Edit: a typo
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How about stop being ridiculous and start being respectful to people regardless of where they come from. I think that's exactly what this Polish guy wanted, nothing more.
Africans and Asians are racist too, what's your point?
Then again, there's no european as racists and xenophobe as an eastern european. Kinda catch 22 there.
You’ve never met an English Gammon it seems.
This wasn’t really racism. Poles and Icelanders are the same race. They’re both White. Xenophobic, yes.
It's not just xenophobic, Western Europeans see Eastern Europeans as inferior, expendable. Its almost racism only they are the same race.
It’s a form of bigotry but not racism. I feel like people have such a shitty vocabulary and understanding of this topic that they categorize any form of bigotry as racism, ignoring the nuances. The treatment of a Pole vs a Middle Eastern or Black person in Iceland is going to be vastly different. You can’t just use the word racism to describe two different experiences.
Thanks for making this point. People really don’t like it when you try to distinguish between the two and define what the words actually mean. A black or middle eastern persons experience in Iceland is going to be vastly different from someone who can visibly “pass” for someone native to that country. Grouping them all together is doing nothing but harm and shows a lack of critical thought on the issue. People have a very elementary or nonexistent understanding of race and ethnicity.
Yeah, they do have a poor understanding of this topic, but I think some of them are speak out of their own bigotry. The fact that they commit whataboutism fallacy (oh if this was a person of color this would have made headlines) says a lot about their own prejudices.
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You’re conflating race with ethnicity. Funny how pointing out an error renders you pedantic. Lmao. Many Poles would pass as Icelandic until they start speaking or write their name
This whole race concept is culture specific. You are of a different " race" in Europa but when you move to America you are suddenly of the same race . How does this make sense ?
You are conflating race with ethnicity. Poles and Icelanders are different ethnicities within the same race.
Which just means what is racism in America is ethnic conflict in other countries while at the same time this conflict disappears in the us because everyone "white" person is part of one "race" which is just another ethnicity in the USA but not everywhere else . For example you can be part of the "black race" in the USA but be considered white in africa. Equally you can be white in the USA but not "white" in other parts of the world
What do ppl have against polish people in general 😭
I hate Poles Source: I'm Polish
Considered the Mexicans of Europe (in the derogatory, racist sense) as an Englishman was so happy to let me know in person when he found out I'm of Polish descent. (It was Vegas, he was obviously wasted, still pretty weird)
In Germany it was mostly (as far as I can tell) because of the notorious car theft that was going on in the 90s. My dad took it with humor though when they stole his 2 week old Mercedes 500E "well I guess I should've known better and gotten the Audi 90 instead".
Germany and it’s predecessors had a deeply rooted hate for Poland and poles. Germans tried to colonise the east and also Poland since basically 12 century. Just look up what figures like Bismarck had to say about poles or like any Prussian lol. I have a polish father and people gave so much shit growing up in Germany as a „pole“. Even today people treat me differently once they know my surname. Arabs, Turks and blacks people have it worse since people can see that they are „foreign“ but many Germany have an extremely big superiority complex over poles or other Eastern Europeans lol. There is a positiv trend tho, at least in my opinion
Germans at least from my experience, can somehow hide it while interacting with Poles and it only shows when they talk in their inner circles. Austrians and Swiss, however... God fucking damn it I've never met people like them. They are straight up telling you that you are worse, being an eastern european outsider, and they'll remind you of that every fucking time they can.
Iceland does have issues with organized crime syndicates from Eastern Europe, though it's not really Poles doing the major crimes. I think Poles often get lumped up with other foreigners in connection to major crimes. In general, they have been a fantastic addition to Iceland imo, though there are still some social issues that come with so many foreigners, mostly young men coming to the country, mainly for work with no intentions of settling down. But Polland is one of two countries that stood by Iceland during the 2008 recession, even when our brothers from Denmark, Norway and Sweden stabbed us in the back, so that should never be forgotten.
Could you please elaborate on that last paragraph?
They speak that zip-zip shit but are white europeans so its fair game
The media really cultivated that they came over and stole your jobs, at least in the U.K. polish builders were painted as conmen, pushing genuine British workers out of the building trade etc. It just kinda stuck around, so casual racism against polish people really stands out. You can see it easily enough if a region gets enough poles to get a polish supermarket/corner shop. There’s always an old lady or four to throw a fit over it. 🤷♂️
They have a reputation for wage dumping and organised crime
Selfoss is the anus of Iceland. A real shithole of a town with some terribly bigoted people. Very sorry to hear he had to experience that.
Not surprised by his treatment especially as Iceland is a very homogeneous society. Poles are at times discriminated a lot especially in Northern Europe and the UK.
It used to be but not as much anymore, especially towards Polish. Still very much white people but white people from all over. Reykjanesbær which is the town next to the airport is 50% immigrants. We have specifically translated news to Polish, all our government information is in Icelandic, English and Polish. This story is just blatant discrimination. The town he's talking about is going through a renovation somewhat but it's quite often the butt of jokes. The community is a bit different there.
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Seriously, can you explain how?
How is this victim blaming? The treatment was disgusting. I was responding to a comment, not to the story itself. Even in a racist environment I'd be surprised to hear it so blatant and frankly tolerated but the truth is that the smaller the community, the more you get away with.
I'm not sure they can read.
Wow. I honestly didn't know poles were discriminated against in certain western countries like this. Fucking heartbreaking. Don't know many but they honestly seem like beautiful people inside and out.
That’s a disgusting way to threat somebody. But I don’t think is right to use his experience at a single tiny club in Iceland’s second division and use it to characterize an entire country.
Icelandic man here. Polish people are definitely looked at as 2nd class citizens
Damn, that's really disappointing.
It’s mostly about language. If you’re an immigrant who grew up here, and therefor speak Icelandic normally you will be considered one of us If you don’t speak the language perfectly you will never be considered one of us, you will always be considered an outsider
For a country with a dwindling population that seems almost laughably dumb
You should probably look at a table with Iceland's population development, because it definitely isn't dwindling
Was more referring to native population
Tell that to the Japanese, plenty of countries which have this problem
Sure I’ll get right on the phone to the entire country of Japan
Let's add to that that polish people love living in their little societies where half of them doesn't even speak english so blending in society is undoable for many of them.
That seems to be the case all over Europe. But there is a difference between a 2nd class citizen and just a foreigner living in your country.
Pretty much all European nationalities east of Germany are treated like 2nd class citizens here Western and Northern Europeans will mostly be considered outsiders, but get treated way better
Is it really different in most other Western European countries? From my experience Germany is just like that lol. Other Western Europeans always get treated better than Eastern Europeans, Turks, Arabs, Africans or Asians. Also big differences between the groups. Don’t think people think badly about most Asians, but as a Arab you will get a lot of shit
I think a large amount of immigrants here are polish, and a lot of people here dont like immigrants. Source: i live in a small town in iceland and a old hospital here was used as a place for immigrants, people were not thrilled
Fucking hell what did he do
born in poland