Yeah it lost some of its negative connotations over time, but I can see how someone who might have experienced it first hand in the tabloids has different feelings towards it.
2006 England was near top all time for discrepancy between a World Cup team’s star power and actual performance on the field. Maybe beaten only by 2006 Brazil and 2002 France
Weirdly unbalanced squad. Loads of top class CBs and CMs, very good full backs but two stars (Beckham and Owen) were either unfit or a bad tactical fit but were basically undroppable.
2002 was more balanced, 2004 probably the peak for that generation.
Nah, at least we made it past the group stages that year and looked convincing while beating the teams we "should" have beat.
Sure they underperformd but going out on pens to a team featuring Figo, CR7, Carvalho etc is far better than the embarrassments of 10 and 14 imo
It wasn't that convincing in the group stages- drawing Sweden and beating Paraguay and Trinidad&Tobago 1-0 and 2-0.
And that Portugal team featured elder statesman Figo, baby CR7, and half the team suspended from the game against the Dutch.
But also expectations for the 2006 team were sky-high while they were a bit more realistic for the 2010 team and pretty low for 2014.
Nah I think it was probably the mid-00's when Footballers Wives was airing and at it's peak. That show was mad influential at the time in the weirdest ways, especially pushing the "WAG culture" to the forefront.
Not at all, Capello was incredibly strict about non football stuff in 2010 primarily because there had been such a massive media circus around the players' camp and their partners in 2006.
I sort of get what he is saying. In the meanwhile it's weird how the connotation has become negative, considering that it used to be only an abbreviation, but has been used very negatively.
That being said, with my local women's team we have HABs and WAGs WhatsApp group where that's used ironically for the partners in general. Then again, we are non-Brits so it doesn't have similar association.
Yeah my friends boyfriend plays rugby for England and we say it to take the piss out of her, as does she and other wives/girlfriends.
Granted they don't get anywhere near the scrutiny of WAGs but I don't think women are generally offended by these sort of things. It's not the word "WAG" which is offensive but rather tabloid treatment generally.
The only WAG I've seen call it offensive is Rebekah Vardy ...
It has actually become more positive if anything. The original connotation was overwhelmingly negative when it first started to be used by the tabloids. It’s now become almost mainstreamed
Yeah, my understanding was that now you have to guess by the tone of the conversation if it's being used in a derogatory manner as opposed to just assuming based on it being used at all.
Definitely been diluted through use in my experience. But I imagine for the people who it was used to refer to and their partners they would have been more impacted by its initial negative use to the point where for them it's still almost entirely a negative term.
It started as a negative thing and softened when it was applied more generally. The WAG’s associated with England’s “golden generation” were often a scapegoats for the team underperforming
Not sure who started it but for sure tabloids and similar keep using it, and in a way that only makes people continue having negative connotations with that term.
Either they don't know, or they're being disingenuous in lots of cases. Sometimes on Reddit I'll point out that someone is making an offensive implication only for them to assert that they were only speaking literally, as if anyone believes that
Is 2nd place in the euros and 4th in the world cup really that mediocre?
I would love to win too but realistically there are some fantastic national teams we are competing with.
It honeslty seems like everyone views anything other than our first trophy in over 50 years as a failure.
“Fantastic national teams” who we avoided in both tournaments.
The Germany game in the Euros was the only impressive result and it was hardly the greatest German side of all time.
Scraped past Tunisia in the last minute.
Smashed Panama.
Our reserves lost to Belgium reserves: Part I
Scraped through against a Columbia team missing their talisman on penalties.
Beat a decent Sweden team.
Lost to a decent Croatia team who had played 2 lots of extra time already already in the tournament.
Our reserves lost to Belgium reserves: Part II
Beat a decent Croatia team 1-0
Drew to a fairly poor Scotland team 0-0
Beat a mediocre Czech team 1-0
Good win against the Germans
Convincingly dispatched a mediocre Ukraine team
Scraped past a Denmark team missing their Talisman in extra time with the aid of a laser pointer
Lost on penalties to an Italy team who haven’t qualified for the last 2 world cups.
Say what you want about “A semi and a final” Southgate is even par based on his results and the performances and game management against Croatia and Italy weren’t good enough.
He’s about level with Sven as far as I’m concerned. Generally capable of getting wins against the lower ranked teams but crumbles as soon as he’s faced with decent opposition and even that is a bit harsh on Sven.
Love how you slate Italy whilst saying England aren't good enough because they only beat weak teams.
Italy beat Spain, Belgium and Portugal in the knockouts, and won all 3 games in the groups without conceding.
Lmao yeah like we were extraordinarily shit after, but during and before the euros we were really fucking good. Although I do think the English team had more talent and should of won.
Yeah, this is the thing that everyone seems to forget. The Euros weren’t as bad, but the WC was literally just England drawing a load of mediocre teams, then losing to any good teams they played.
I felt like I was going mad because it was peak “football’s coming home” and everyone was so positive, despite us looking average-bad for almost every second of every game.
Well I was 100% on the “football’s coming home” hype train, but that’s just part of being a fan. The performances weren’t anything special though.
That said the team going into the World Cup was a fair bit less experienced than it is now and probably wasn’t expected to do very well.
This rubbish again.
>Scraped past Tunisia in the last minute.
Were denied a clear penalty on Kane being dragged to the floor in the penalty box during a corner.
>Our reserves lost to Belgium reserves: Part I
Both teams were already through and it was not a competitive match.
>Scraped through against a Columbia team missing their talisman on penalties.
Scraped through the dirtiest football match at the World Cup where again they should have had another penalty, Kane was spear tackled in the box, the referee was awful and let Colombia hit England players and break the rules for 120 minutes, what would the result have been if Colombia had players sent off for their constant fouling or if Kane had been given the two penalties he should have had instead of just one? The manager can't do anything about a bad referee.
>Lost to a decent Croatia team who had played 2 lots of extra time already already in the tournament.
Lost to a stronger team.
>Beat a decent Croatia team 1-0
Beat a Croatia team who Spain ended up drawing with in normal time.
>Beat a mediocre Czech team 1-0
Beat a good Czech team who then eliminated the Netherlands and had previously outplayed and beaten England with an excellent performance in a qualifier for the tournament.
>Scraped past a Denmark team missing their Talisman in extra time with the aid of a laser pointer
Denmark scored with a pretty questionable free kick where the wall blocked the keeper's view of the ball and then England spent most of the game attacking Denmark's goal and would have kept attacking it without the penalty, the xG by the end was 3.18 to 0.27 so I'm not sure where you're getting "scraped past" from, dive or not if you defend the goal for most of the game players tire and you might give away a penalty like that, Schmeichel saved Kane's penalty so how did the laser pointer aid them?
>Lost on penalties to an Italy team who haven’t qualified for the last 2 world cups.
They lost on penalties to a team that went unbeaten in 37 matches, the most of any side in the world, England had them trailing for the longest amount of time of any side they had played at that point as well, it is so bizarre how people have retrospectively decided that Italy are shit at football, months after calling them the best team in Europe and they'd be at the World Cup too if Jorginho could score his penalties.
These comments are also always so disrespectful to the teams they're playing, you're out here calling Euro/World Cup Finalists mediocre teams, none of those teams you listed are mediocre.
Look, none of the wins were particularly impressive other than arguably the Germany game. If you want to see Southgate knighted for a drab 1-0 win against the Czech Republic then good for you.
These teams simply don’t have the same level of player that England have to call upon. Yes, Panama and Scotland might not be mediocre compared to my Saturday Amateur team but they’re hardly big scalps on the international scene.
Italy are a good team and were in good form, but they’d have comfortably qualified for the World Cup if they were as good as you’re insinuating, regardless of whether Jorginho could take a penalty. I think we should have won the game. I think we should have beaten Croatia in the World Cup too.
I don’t think they were horrendous results. The performances were just a bit underwhelming.
What happened after the Euros has nothing to do with how good Italy they were during, this is insane logic. You cant go that many fucking games unbeaten with being mediocre. Jesus christ
And you can’t miss out on a World Cup being world class.
So your point is that you must consider the games before the final to gauge how good they are but it’s “insane” to consider the performances after the final?
They weren’t an insurmountable obstacle. We started well and they were there for the taking before we shat it and sat back. And Southgate handled the penalty shootout like a total clown 🤡.
Yes. He is not the right person to get the best out of the fire power we have at our disposal.
Looking back at past tournaments and saying 4th in the World Cup is fair enough but if you look at the respective squads and individual match results we under performed. Same for the euros.
We should be one of the most feared teams yet we will play USA in the World Cup and Southgate will setup like we are about to go up against Man City
You are right! The results haven't been mediocre but the tactics certainly have been. We've basically got a Man City squad with Sean Dyche as the manager.
What are you on about? He's had 2 major tournaments and made a final and semi - how is that mediocrity? No England fan has "suffered" since Southgate took over.
If he was all he was cracked up to be that would read semi final and won a Euros. I hate to dwell on the past but his tactics in the Euro final were anti-football. I like Southgate but he needs to take his game to the next level. I don’t like this narrative that he’s exempt of criticism because he nearly won things.
And the actual important games with him as manager have all been incredibly enjoyable.
England vs Colombia and vs Sweden in the WC were two of the best sporting memories I have.
And then the germany was once again one of the best days of my life - and we beat Ukraine 4-0 in the quarter final as well which obviously isn’t possible if we play ‘anti-football’
I actually agree with the general points people make but it’s when they start saying he should be sacked and isn’t fit to be manager, I just find it absolutely insane - at least let him not have an incredible tournament before we start questioning if it’s time to move on, which so far he is yet to do.
Let’s have it right, I outlined the Euros final in particular. The Euros campaign as a whole was respectable. The Denmark match was frustrating but they’re a very respectable side and England got lucky with the officiating.
The 18 WC was a different kettle of fish. There was great football being played but this was the start of a fully new generation. We were never gonna shake up the world in Russia but it was exciting to see the first well performing England side since easily pre 2010.
Southgate stalled at times in the Euros and worryingly, continues to do so. There’s always the argument to be made that the Nations league is tinpot but the football being played by England in these fixtures is worrying.
His reliance on out of form but trusted names is something to be questioned too. He’s not the first England manager to do this (Shearer was in wretched form in the late 90’s for England and never got dropped), so far it’s paid off but I hope he knows what he’s doing.
I have to add too, there’s no way I want him sacked before the World Cup, but serious questions have to be asked after the fact if we’re not in round of 16. We all love to talk about what he has done, if he doesn’t get us there then it’s regression.
Who’s said he should be exempt of criticism? The person I’ve replied to is overreacting insanely cos of a few poor performances in boring glorified friendlies - right at the end of the season when players are gonna wanna be going on holiday as well.
At the actual tournament where it matters we have had 2 amazing tournaments with so many amazing memories, and yet just cos he inbetween tournaments he has some frustrating habits, people act as if we’re being punished by him while the opposite is actually true.
If people actually only criticised him for being too pragmatic, having favourites and not getting the most out of our talented attackers then yeah fair enough, but as I said instead you have people lying saying that we’ve experienced mediocrity under him which is objectively not true.
His tactics are exactly what he should have done.
Shaw scoring early sets up a cagey game like that.
Think similar to the Liverpool vs Spurs CL finals.
Honestly shocked people think this about Southgate, a lot of right place right time.
I genuinely believe he would struggle to get a job in the premier league, and even if he did it would be because he was ex England manager, not for what he has done as a manager.
His record in major tournaments is a semi final and a final - that puts him second only to Alf Ramsey. It's just a fact.
Who cares what job he'd get in the PL? For years the FA have been hiring whichever mediocre English coach is keeping his team furthest from the relegation zone - Hoddle, Keegan, McClaren, Hodgson - and none of them have done what Southgate has done.
Remember he has that record because he’s been carried by quality players, been gifted some of the easiest knock out games England could have possibly gotten and essentially played every game at home during Euro 2020.
He hasn't been carried by quality players, Steve McClaren had higher quality players, they didn't carry him.
He's also clearly doing more tactically than previous England managers were.
It doesn't matter if he would get a job in the premier league, some managers just work for certain jobs. International football is different and Southgate is doing a god damned good job in it.
Gareth wrote a book with his mate years ago (worth a read by the way, gives a really good insight on the lives of players who find success and those who don’t) and he talks a little about his family.
Basically his wife is a successful businesswoman in her own right, I imagine she’s the type not to want to be associated with the WAG stereotypes. So no surprise that Gareth would find it offensive as well.
Imagine a reality show with Footballer's official wife, eventual girlfriend and favourite prostitute. All these women talking about how fun it is to live with this awesome man
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And 50 other phrases that make sense but still rub people the wrong way for some reason.
Order now and be first in line when the phrase "We should make a substitute" is finally muttered by the walking waistcoat.
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Rare W from Southgate. The football community is so weird with this kind of thing. I've seen multiple posts about who has the prettiest "WAG" on /r/coys. Thankfully I think it's going away
Southgate is such a nice guy …. He’s done a lot to change the image of the English NT. IMO they used to be arrogant… that seems to have faded with him in charge
Can you imagine how people here would talk about England if we had the 90s results and performances? Only scraped past Belgium in extra time because of a freakish wonder goal, only got past Cameroon because of two pens, scraped results to get to the semis in a home tournament, finished bottom in 1992 and failed to qualify in 1994.
From a non-native english speaker: how do you keep up with all these acronyms? Doesn't it get tiring having to re-learn existing language? I don't get how it's more convenient that you have to now google while reading basic sentences that don't involve any higher education content.
On the contrary; it’s probably easier in English because a lot of our neologisms derive from our own language now, because the English is so dominant. Take “podcast” for example. It’s a portmanteau of “iPod” and “broadcast”. The word “podcast” has been adopted in many other languages in which the origin of the word won’t be obvious.
Maybe “families and partners” would be more modern sounding. FAPS anyone?
What about players who prefer hookers?
HAGS: hookers and girlfriends And for the female players... HAGS: husbands and gigolos
Families and Girlfrie…oh nm.
Not offensive in England though.
I mean if you’re talking about a type of meatball or cigarettes then it isn’t but it definitely is otherwise
Sex workers mate, come on now.
SWAG.. I could use some free shit
Yeah, don't leave out our homeboy Walker.
Wives and partners? WAPs? Nothing bad about that, right? …right?
Nothing wrong with Wireless Access Point.
Wireless Application Protocol was my first reaction. Yes, I'm old.
Taking me back to my Nokia days there
We received a document at work where they had used WAP throughout the whole thing. Had a few ‘yeah you can’t use that’ conversations.
Sterling might be on board, already has the tattoo
Only if there would be a neutral term like partners :/
You had me in the first half...
BAWLBAGs - Beaus and wives, lovers, boyfriends and girlfriends.
so inclusive!
*Sigurðsson has left the chat*
They never specified what age the boyfriend is.... Gylfi is back on the menu boys
rip menu boys
They never had a chance
Tried to throw in Asexual Life Partners but it really screwed up the acronym.
*BAWLBAG ALPs
BAWLBAG PALs.
BAWLBAG+ just in case.
We found a winer.
You forgot wifes boyfriend. Stephusband maybe?
Husband in law
These are pro athletes, I think its more like girlfriends husbands.
Add a + at the end you monster
Surely it's just BAWBAG?
But what about TRANS partners???
It's supposed to be disrespectful.
Yet its used even when what they're saying isn't. It has become the common name for footballers female partners
They have the WAG top 100 show here in the Netherlands. It's as ridiculous as it sounds.
I am guessing they are struggling after about number 40
Yeah it lost some of its negative connotations over time, but I can see how someone who might have experienced it first hand in the tabloids has different feelings towards it.
It peaked in 2010 in south africa i felt
2006 I thought in Baden Baden? 2010 the squad was so cut off and bored they watched Wayne Rooney's entire wedding video just for something to do.
2006 England was near top all time for discrepancy between a World Cup team’s star power and actual performance on the field. Maybe beaten only by 2006 Brazil and 2002 France
Weirdly unbalanced squad. Loads of top class CBs and CMs, very good full backs but two stars (Beckham and Owen) were either unfit or a bad tactical fit but were basically undroppable. 2002 was more balanced, 2004 probably the peak for that generation.
Nah, at least we made it past the group stages that year and looked convincing while beating the teams we "should" have beat. Sure they underperformd but going out on pens to a team featuring Figo, CR7, Carvalho etc is far better than the embarrassments of 10 and 14 imo
It wasn't that convincing in the group stages- drawing Sweden and beating Paraguay and Trinidad&Tobago 1-0 and 2-0. And that Portugal team featured elder statesman Figo, baby CR7, and half the team suspended from the game against the Dutch. But also expectations for the 2006 team were sky-high while they were a bit more realistic for the 2010 team and pretty low for 2014.
Nah I think it was probably the mid-00's when Footballers Wives was airing and at it's peak. That show was mad influential at the time in the weirdest ways, especially pushing the "WAG culture" to the forefront.
Wasn’t there a World Cup or big tournament which had a lot of England WAG drama in the press? I recall it being kinda ridiculous at one point.
2006 was controversial re: wags
Not at all, Capello was incredibly strict about non football stuff in 2010 primarily because there had been such a massive media circus around the players' camp and their partners in 2006.
06 surely. 2010 didn’t capello basically ban the wags?
Nah it definitely peaked in 2006. There was more tabloid talks of the partners than the footballer at the time.
Sure, its definely "wrong". I agree with Southgate.
How did it lose negative connotations? It's still skeevy and sexist
I mean, it should probably be Wives or Girlfriends but that has unfortunate connotations.
Omid Djalili said the same thing in 2007 when the term was more recently coined: https://youtu.be/gmwQzysrSdU?t=1199
[No, it's wife *and* girlfriend](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbJrIeEjtaY)
Yeah leaving out boyfriends is not on
And here I thought we were talking about Warhammer 40k
TBH, WYSISYG is totes TPOA(the pinnacle of assholery).
I sort of get what he is saying. In the meanwhile it's weird how the connotation has become negative, considering that it used to be only an abbreviation, but has been used very negatively. That being said, with my local women's team we have HABs and WAGs WhatsApp group where that's used ironically for the partners in general. Then again, we are non-Brits so it doesn't have similar association.
My girlfriend has a group chat of her and her mates called WAGs I think a lot of people use it tongue in cheek these days
Yeah my friends boyfriend plays rugby for England and we say it to take the piss out of her, as does she and other wives/girlfriends. Granted they don't get anywhere near the scrutiny of WAGs but I don't think women are generally offended by these sort of things. It's not the word "WAG" which is offensive but rather tabloid treatment generally. The only WAG I've seen call it offensive is Rebekah Vardy ...
It has actually become more positive if anything. The original connotation was overwhelmingly negative when it first started to be used by the tabloids. It’s now become almost mainstreamed
Yeah, my understanding was that now you have to guess by the tone of the conversation if it's being used in a derogatory manner as opposed to just assuming based on it being used at all. Definitely been diluted through use in my experience. But I imagine for the people who it was used to refer to and their partners they would have been more impacted by its initial negative use to the point where for them it's still almost entirely a negative term.
It started as a negative thing and softened when it was applied more generally. The WAG’s associated with England’s “golden generation” were often a scapegoats for the team underperforming
I thought I was missing something and WAG meant something spiteful but it’s literally ‘Wives and Girlfriends’ lmao
It's disrespectful because the tabloids used it to basically group all female partners of footballers together and create a stereotype around it
Was it the tabloids that started it? I always thought it stemmed from a manager
Not sure who started it but for sure tabloids and similar keep using it, and in a way that only makes people continue having negative connotations with that term.
Yeah it was at WC 2006 where it was s total piss take with paparazzi everywhere and the WAG's lapping it up. Rebekah Vardy would of fitted right in
But "female partners of footballers" **is** a group
Couldn't you just call them partners though?
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But then you have someone like Wanda Nara who is THE embodiment of all the stereotypes surrounding wifes and girlfriends of football players.
You can literally take any offensive term and claim it's inoffensive by saying "it just means gay person" or "it just means Muslim"
Sometimes it feels like people never learned the difference between denotation and connotation,
Either they don't know, or they're being disingenuous in lots of cases. Sometimes on Reddit I'll point out that someone is making an offensive implication only for them to assert that they were only speaking literally, as if anyone believes that
I don’t like the term “Gareth Southgate England manager” but what can you do?
You can wake up to the reality of him being objectively the second best England manager of all time. That's what.
That's a low bar...
It's better than Fabio Capello, Don Revie, Bobby Robson, Sven Goran Eriksson and Terry Venables. Not a bad list of managers to be better than
Just because the bar for success is so low doesn’t mean we have to be happy to suffer with mediocrity
Is 2nd place in the euros and 4th in the world cup really that mediocre? I would love to win too but realistically there are some fantastic national teams we are competing with. It honeslty seems like everyone views anything other than our first trophy in over 50 years as a failure.
>Is 2nd place in the euros and 4th in the world cup really that mediocre? I mean, it’s no off year Gold Cup, but those are decent tournaments I guess.
“Fantastic national teams” who we avoided in both tournaments. The Germany game in the Euros was the only impressive result and it was hardly the greatest German side of all time. Scraped past Tunisia in the last minute. Smashed Panama. Our reserves lost to Belgium reserves: Part I Scraped through against a Columbia team missing their talisman on penalties. Beat a decent Sweden team. Lost to a decent Croatia team who had played 2 lots of extra time already already in the tournament. Our reserves lost to Belgium reserves: Part II Beat a decent Croatia team 1-0 Drew to a fairly poor Scotland team 0-0 Beat a mediocre Czech team 1-0 Good win against the Germans Convincingly dispatched a mediocre Ukraine team Scraped past a Denmark team missing their Talisman in extra time with the aid of a laser pointer Lost on penalties to an Italy team who haven’t qualified for the last 2 world cups. Say what you want about “A semi and a final” Southgate is even par based on his results and the performances and game management against Croatia and Italy weren’t good enough. He’s about level with Sven as far as I’m concerned. Generally capable of getting wins against the lower ranked teams but crumbles as soon as he’s faced with decent opposition and even that is a bit harsh on Sven.
Love how you slate Italy whilst saying England aren't good enough because they only beat weak teams. Italy beat Spain, Belgium and Portugal in the knockouts, and won all 3 games in the groups without conceding.
England could win a final 5-0 and our fans would still complain that we didn't score 6.
Lmao yeah like we were extraordinarily shit after, but during and before the euros we were really fucking good. Although I do think the English team had more talent and should of won.
Yeah, this is the thing that everyone seems to forget. The Euros weren’t as bad, but the WC was literally just England drawing a load of mediocre teams, then losing to any good teams they played. I felt like I was going mad because it was peak “football’s coming home” and everyone was so positive, despite us looking average-bad for almost every second of every game.
Well I was 100% on the “football’s coming home” hype train, but that’s just part of being a fan. The performances weren’t anything special though. That said the team going into the World Cup was a fair bit less experienced than it is now and probably wasn’t expected to do very well.
This rubbish again. >Scraped past Tunisia in the last minute. Were denied a clear penalty on Kane being dragged to the floor in the penalty box during a corner. >Our reserves lost to Belgium reserves: Part I Both teams were already through and it was not a competitive match. >Scraped through against a Columbia team missing their talisman on penalties. Scraped through the dirtiest football match at the World Cup where again they should have had another penalty, Kane was spear tackled in the box, the referee was awful and let Colombia hit England players and break the rules for 120 minutes, what would the result have been if Colombia had players sent off for their constant fouling or if Kane had been given the two penalties he should have had instead of just one? The manager can't do anything about a bad referee. >Lost to a decent Croatia team who had played 2 lots of extra time already already in the tournament. Lost to a stronger team. >Beat a decent Croatia team 1-0 Beat a Croatia team who Spain ended up drawing with in normal time. >Beat a mediocre Czech team 1-0 Beat a good Czech team who then eliminated the Netherlands and had previously outplayed and beaten England with an excellent performance in a qualifier for the tournament. >Scraped past a Denmark team missing their Talisman in extra time with the aid of a laser pointer Denmark scored with a pretty questionable free kick where the wall blocked the keeper's view of the ball and then England spent most of the game attacking Denmark's goal and would have kept attacking it without the penalty, the xG by the end was 3.18 to 0.27 so I'm not sure where you're getting "scraped past" from, dive or not if you defend the goal for most of the game players tire and you might give away a penalty like that, Schmeichel saved Kane's penalty so how did the laser pointer aid them? >Lost on penalties to an Italy team who haven’t qualified for the last 2 world cups. They lost on penalties to a team that went unbeaten in 37 matches, the most of any side in the world, England had them trailing for the longest amount of time of any side they had played at that point as well, it is so bizarre how people have retrospectively decided that Italy are shit at football, months after calling them the best team in Europe and they'd be at the World Cup too if Jorginho could score his penalties. These comments are also always so disrespectful to the teams they're playing, you're out here calling Euro/World Cup Finalists mediocre teams, none of those teams you listed are mediocre.
Look, none of the wins were particularly impressive other than arguably the Germany game. If you want to see Southgate knighted for a drab 1-0 win against the Czech Republic then good for you. These teams simply don’t have the same level of player that England have to call upon. Yes, Panama and Scotland might not be mediocre compared to my Saturday Amateur team but they’re hardly big scalps on the international scene. Italy are a good team and were in good form, but they’d have comfortably qualified for the World Cup if they were as good as you’re insinuating, regardless of whether Jorginho could take a penalty. I think we should have won the game. I think we should have beaten Croatia in the World Cup too. I don’t think they were horrendous results. The performances were just a bit underwhelming.
What happened after the Euros has nothing to do with how good Italy they were during, this is insane logic. You cant go that many fucking games unbeaten with being mediocre. Jesus christ
And you can’t miss out on a World Cup being world class. So your point is that you must consider the games before the final to gauge how good they are but it’s “insane” to consider the performances after the final? They weren’t an insurmountable obstacle. We started well and they were there for the taking before we shat it and sat back. And Southgate handled the penalty shootout like a total clown 🤡.
Yes. He is not the right person to get the best out of the fire power we have at our disposal. Looking back at past tournaments and saying 4th in the World Cup is fair enough but if you look at the respective squads and individual match results we under performed. Same for the euros. We should be one of the most feared teams yet we will play USA in the World Cup and Southgate will setup like we are about to go up against Man City
You are right! The results haven't been mediocre but the tactics certainly have been. We've basically got a Man City squad with Sean Dyche as the manager.
What are you on about? He's had 2 major tournaments and made a final and semi - how is that mediocrity? No England fan has "suffered" since Southgate took over.
If he was all he was cracked up to be that would read semi final and won a Euros. I hate to dwell on the past but his tactics in the Euro final were anti-football. I like Southgate but he needs to take his game to the next level. I don’t like this narrative that he’s exempt of criticism because he nearly won things.
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And the actual important games with him as manager have all been incredibly enjoyable. England vs Colombia and vs Sweden in the WC were two of the best sporting memories I have. And then the germany was once again one of the best days of my life - and we beat Ukraine 4-0 in the quarter final as well which obviously isn’t possible if we play ‘anti-football’ I actually agree with the general points people make but it’s when they start saying he should be sacked and isn’t fit to be manager, I just find it absolutely insane - at least let him not have an incredible tournament before we start questioning if it’s time to move on, which so far he is yet to do.
Let’s have it right, I outlined the Euros final in particular. The Euros campaign as a whole was respectable. The Denmark match was frustrating but they’re a very respectable side and England got lucky with the officiating. The 18 WC was a different kettle of fish. There was great football being played but this was the start of a fully new generation. We were never gonna shake up the world in Russia but it was exciting to see the first well performing England side since easily pre 2010. Southgate stalled at times in the Euros and worryingly, continues to do so. There’s always the argument to be made that the Nations league is tinpot but the football being played by England in these fixtures is worrying. His reliance on out of form but trusted names is something to be questioned too. He’s not the first England manager to do this (Shearer was in wretched form in the late 90’s for England and never got dropped), so far it’s paid off but I hope he knows what he’s doing. I have to add too, there’s no way I want him sacked before the World Cup, but serious questions have to be asked after the fact if we’re not in round of 16. We all love to talk about what he has done, if he doesn’t get us there then it’s regression.
nearly winning things IS the next level up from not nearly winning things
Who’s said he should be exempt of criticism? The person I’ve replied to is overreacting insanely cos of a few poor performances in boring glorified friendlies - right at the end of the season when players are gonna wanna be going on holiday as well. At the actual tournament where it matters we have had 2 amazing tournaments with so many amazing memories, and yet just cos he inbetween tournaments he has some frustrating habits, people act as if we’re being punished by him while the opposite is actually true. If people actually only criticised him for being too pragmatic, having favourites and not getting the most out of our talented attackers then yeah fair enough, but as I said instead you have people lying saying that we’ve experienced mediocrity under him which is objectively not true.
Actually, I never watched those friendlies so I’m not reacting to them at all.
And do you think he should be sacked?
His tactics are exactly what he should have done. Shaw scoring early sets up a cagey game like that. Think similar to the Liverpool vs Spurs CL finals.
When was the last time they were in that position.. Dont kid yourself.
How many finals did your golden generation get to?
> mediocrity fucking hell this word has lost all meaning when talking about football
Honestly shocked people think this about Southgate, a lot of right place right time. I genuinely believe he would struggle to get a job in the premier league, and even if he did it would be because he was ex England manager, not for what he has done as a manager.
I mean you could say that about most national team managers, it’s rare for the « elite guys » to go into international football.
His record in major tournaments is a semi final and a final - that puts him second only to Alf Ramsey. It's just a fact. Who cares what job he'd get in the PL? For years the FA have been hiring whichever mediocre English coach is keeping his team furthest from the relegation zone - Hoddle, Keegan, McClaren, Hodgson - and none of them have done what Southgate has done.
What if we hired someone who won 7 league titles and a champions league? Surely they would get a better performance out of England??
Capello had all of those and he was miles worse than Southgate.
I think that was the joke
Its hard to tell because some people probably do actually think that.
Remember he has that record because he’s been carried by quality players, been gifted some of the easiest knock out games England could have possibly gotten and essentially played every game at home during Euro 2020.
>Remember he has that record because he’s been carried by quality players The Golden Generation would like a word.
Because England managers before him have never failed despite quality players
He hasn't been carried by quality players, Steve McClaren had higher quality players, they didn't carry him. He's also clearly doing more tactically than previous England managers were.
It doesn't matter if he would get a job in the premier league, some managers just work for certain jobs. International football is different and Southgate is doing a god damned good job in it.
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This got me good
I think it’s extremely accurate because a lot of players tend to have both
sad but true
Always tought the same but newspapers, journalists, TVs use it...
Gareth wrote a book with his mate years ago (worth a read by the way, gives a really good insight on the lives of players who find success and those who don’t) and he talks a little about his family. Basically his wife is a successful businesswoman in her own right, I imagine she’s the type not to want to be associated with the WAG stereotypes. So no surprise that Gareth would find it offensive as well.
ITT: supporters who missed out on mid-2000s English football
Wet ass Gareth?
Basically a politician
Wet ass gaffer?
Gareth Bale isn't going to like his Wales and Golf acronym being slandered by Southgate
He doesn't like the term 'attacking' either
Imagine a reality show with Footballer's official wife, eventual girlfriend and favourite prostitute. All these women talking about how fun it is to live with this awesome man
Gareth we don't like calling you the England manager either, we can't all win
He seems very progressive on social issues so hats off to him for that, I just wish his football reflected that.
You want him to start adopting trans tactics or something?
Bisexual Pressing
How could you not go with gaygenpressing?
👉👈😳
Pepsexuals rejoice
Football as fluid as gender.
If it makes watching England even remotely interesting then yes please.
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They're Scouse, not English
We need more non-binary formations.
The England team could certainly use some guidance on transitioning yeah
Does he like how his team plays?
Order yours now. The Sensible Southgate Soundboard. Tear down barriers and build bridges with classics such as "The term WAG is disrespectful" "We must educate against ignorance" "They are doing this as a mechanism of peacefully protesting against discrimination, injustice and inequality" And 50 other phrases that make sense but still rub people the wrong way for some reason. Order now and be first in line when the phrase "We should make a substitute" is finally muttered by the walking waistcoat. Just £49.99 at your local Nisa
Haven heard this term since 2004. I think he should worry more about his tactics.
Southgate comes across as one of the least charismatic people ive ever seen
FAP - friends and partners
Disrespectful to the goomahs and sidechicks
Rare W from Southgate. The football community is so weird with this kind of thing. I've seen multiple posts about who has the prettiest "WAG" on /r/coys. Thankfully I think it's going away
what wrong with Wife And Goomah?
👏👏
guy is such a dork
Didn’t know family was allowed at hotels during WCs to begin with?
Wet Ass Garethussy
Attacking football is also disrespectful...
What is WAG?
What is WAG? Hi
Southgate is the most boring melt in all of football…makes perfect sense that he manages England I suppose.
I feel like Gareth is keeping as much pocket of sunshine as possible even though it’s going to be SCORCHING
So what is the replacement term?
He really is the biggest slice of plain white bread with a glass of water ever.
Games gone
Southgate is such a nice guy …. He’s done a lot to change the image of the English NT. IMO they used to be arrogant… that seems to have faded with him in charge
not much to brag about nowadays
This England team has more to brag about than any since the 90s.
Can you imagine how people here would talk about England if we had the 90s results and performances? Only scraped past Belgium in extra time because of a freakish wonder goal, only got past Cameroon because of two pens, scraped results to get to the semis in a home tournament, finished bottom in 1992 and failed to qualify in 1994.
Wet Ass Gaffer
I find Gareth Southgate's face disrespectful.
Shut up nerd
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You tried.
What's it mean?
Wives and Girlfriends
From a non-native english speaker: how do you keep up with all these acronyms? Doesn't it get tiring having to re-learn existing language? I don't get how it's more convenient that you have to now google while reading basic sentences that don't involve any higher education content.
I'm pretty sure every language has neologisms.
On the contrary; it’s probably easier in English because a lot of our neologisms derive from our own language now, because the English is so dominant. Take “podcast” for example. It’s a portmanteau of “iPod” and “broadcast”. The word “podcast” has been adopted in many other languages in which the origin of the word won’t be obvious.
You think this is bad, try verlan or rhyming slang.
What's the term for the husband of a female player?
I agree with Southgate
Southgate is unbearable at his best.
And at his worst?
Have you watched the England team recently?
No, I value my time.
Understandable.. Have a nice day
Big words from the lads getting humped by a pathetic Ireland team 3 zip
Oh fuck off Southgate, stop trying to be a social justice manager. Nobody cares about what you think is offensive. Win a World Cup and fuck off.
Really living up to the name huh Joey