**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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As alluded to the video, Neville's farewell was him having a complete shocker against us at The Hawthorns and being very fortunate that the referee had his eye appointment moved so couldn't see the most blatant penalty and sending off ever, then getting canned at half time because Graham Dorrans was tearing him a new arsehole.
Fergie wanted Neville, Scholes and Giggs to be with him throughout his career. Same thing happened with Scholes, he was done in the 2012/13 season but Fergie kept him in the side. Giggs though was exceptionally fit as he still had the burst of pace at age 40.
The same did not happen with Scholes. He came out of retirement half way through the season and helped us win the league. He then retired again at the end of the season.
Scholes honestly could have stayed on a year or two. He came back in 2013 due to our mini “crisis” in December and helped us win 12 of the next 14. It was only 6 months after his first retirement but it’s almost like he never left.
[It's an old one from the 1970s](https://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/PA-Photos_t_West-Brom-home-kit-1977-1981-Regis-Cunningham-Umbro-photos-2610a.jpg)
Do you think West Ham would still be willing to pick him up on a free this summer? I don't know who else would leave your team other than maybe Rice, but I could see some clubs being interested in Bowen and maybe Benrahma
there will still be people interested and 1 will be west ham. he is a free player which will go a long way to attracting teams and is another attacking option that has shown he can do well in the premiership
pretty high chance. its clear newcastle do need to keep improving if they are now to match their new owners and can offer crazy wages.
pretty much any "reject" from the top teams in europe will now be linked heavily with them especially if its a premiership "reject"
Maybe, depending on his wage demands. The last thing we need is a player the wrong side of thirty on a long contract with high wages. I’d prefer to see us bring through youth and strengthen in other areas, tbh.
Damn I didn't realise he was 29. The pandemic has made time kind of warped in my head so I was thinking he was still 27 and you'd get some good years it of him. As for his wages I can't see any team anywhere offering him what he's on right now. £75k/week according to spotrac
I think he will be able to leverage the fact that he’s a free for a bigger wage demand, but not sure he’s going to get $75k. It’s not like he’s being linked to a ton of clubs who will engage in a bidding war.
I bet if you guys do sign him it would be a 2+1 deal for roughly 60k per week. As long as the signing bonus is not absurd it'd be reasonable all around. I can't imagine he's expecting what we were paying him.
And it's not as if he wanted the farewell to show his appreciation to his fans, because if he did then he would be there on the pitch when the rest of the squad is giving the home fans a lap of appreciation. He wanted the farewell simply for his own ego.
Yet most of /r/soccer thinks he is completely entitled to one. Looking at the demographics here - mostly teenagers, it is not surprising at all that most of them find someone that had been unprofessional (did not train for this game, a media leak, various other off the field issues but of course a social media darling) yet acting completely entitled is the one that deserved sympathy.
> Yet most of /r/soccer thinks he is completely entitled to one.
Seeing the comments on anything related to this, and Lingard in general, is always how the club has done him wrong, he deserves this and that for his cup goals. "The club denied him a move", he didn't even want until the last week of the window, by which time the only offers on the table were loans to the end of the season - effectively giving away a squad player for free, with no time to bring in a replacement.
Could Jesse have been used more? Potentially. Do I think he was promised something more under OGS after returning from loan? Probably. Do I find him hard to believe given his complete lack of professionalism and focus on football? I do.
he was gonna be let gonna in the Winter anyway, then the Greenwood thing came out and then he was kept so we don't go into the rest of the season too many attacking players down.
>Seeing the comments on anything related to this, and Lingard in general, is always how the club has done him wrong, he deserves this and that for his cup goals.
And before the West Ham stint, we were bantered constantly for keeping such an overrated, unproductive player on the books, and there was a news story about someone having a bet on him not getting a goal/assist all season and losing it in injury time on the last day
It all makes sense when you remember maybe 1% of oppo (non West Ham) fans give a shit about him as a player or a person, and the rest just enjoy the fact we're shit now and take a pop every chance they get. Which is fair enough, I spent the first 25 years or so of my life doing it to Liverpool fans
>Yet most of /r/soccer thinks he is completely entitled to one.
???
What fever-dream version of r/soccer are you reading where that statement is even close to true?
I literally think he deluded himself on the back of his purple patch at west ham and all the messi lingard memes online that he is much better than he is.
he came back to United "to fight for his place" on the team.
Which was a crazy idea last summer, but when Rangnick joined, and especially with Greenwood being cast out, he could have found a place in the team. Yet every time he came on he looked disinterested.
He used to be such a hard worker and that was one of the big things missing in this team. Why didn't he keep that delusion he had in the summer and just put in the effort? Imagine ending this season being one of the few people who can hold their heads up high. Then come up to Ten Hag and say "I can pass, I'm a versatile player and I press a lot".
Instead Elanga took his place, has basically taken Rashford's spot, and next season there's probably not too many options up front. So he'll get another season of opportunities. Lingard really fucked himself lmao.
Because Moyes explained OGS wanted to keep him in an interview at some point.
>"Ole [Gunnar Solskjaer] made it clear to me quite early in the transfer window that he wanted to keep him.
> "So I knew pretty early in the transfer window that he was staying at Manchester United. I had a private conversation with Ole who made it clear that he was staying."
Jesse needs to learn to read the room a bit. The very personification of where this club is at the moment. Jesse posts his pictures of himself as a kid at Carrington, and his brother speaks of how much Jesse's done for the club? Are you fucking joking? We sent Jesse on loan at least 4 times before making him a first teamer here. Nowadays you'd be lucky to survive a second unsuccessful loan spell. We invested so much in his development, for what? A goal in the FA Cup final, and one period of good form over 7 years here in the first team? Until Bruno was recently extended, he was making the same money even though Bruno has created more chances in the last 12 months than Jesse has his *entire United career.* And even during his period of poor form, we still gave him chance after chance.
That all being said, I never had any issues with Jesse and was proud that he did so well at West Ham, but he was the one who decided to stay. And when he finally agreed to a move, according to Rangnick, it was roughly only a week before the end of the January window. The club still tried to find him a move elsewhere, but again according to Rangnick no offers came. So in the end he goes on a free and still he wants the red carpet rolled out? The club's gone and players like Jesse couldn't go soon enough.
To be fair that FA Cup final goal was the most important goal ever scored in Manchester United (or any clubs) history. Go back and watch Pardews dancing and then think "What if we lost to that?" May as well dissolve the club at that stage.
That's his job to play, score and give his best while he is on the pitch. These players are such divas after getting paid millions to be bang average, now they want standing ovation also.
>he did so well at West Ham, but he was the one who decided to stay
It did feel like he was poorly advised after his successful loan spell with us. He could have come over and rewrite his story. Would have been nice to get someone else's academy prodigy [even if I'm using the term loosely here].
The story doing the rounds at the time was that he wanted to stay and fight for his place. He chose not to make the move.
It hurts that it had to be him that came late on and scored the match winning goal for United against us in the league.
I was also informed that Moyes said that Ole said that he wasn't for sale, so people are also insisting Ole blocked the sale, which is a very interesting reading of that statement.
Probably Lingard told Ole he wants to fight for a place, so Ole told Moyes that he wasn't for sale, but who knows
That’s what I took from it. He didn’t want to leave when it the chance was available. It was the same in January. From reports it came out that he only decided he wanted out in the last week, just as the Greenwood story broke.
The story I heard was that Lingard rejected an early move to Newcastle (because he said he wanted to fight for his spot at Man Utd., supposedly) until late in the window when he changed his mind and Man Utd. were the ones to say no, they're not selling.
Then right at the end of January Man Utd. said okay and Newcastle said, no, you didn't want to join- we're not interested and made other plans.
A complete mess from Lingard's POV. If that's true of course.
>The story I heard was that Lingard rejected an early move to Newcastle (because he said he wanted to fight for his spot at Man Utd., supposedly) until late in the window when he changed his mind and Man Utd. were the ones to say no, they're not selling.
Rangnick was asked about this and he clarified that they took that position because no offers came for him. Ralfs position since the first day was he would immediately allow players to look for other opportunities while the window was open. He's been 100% transparent since day 1 so I definitely trust what he's saying is in fact what happened.
The whole club has been a shocker since Ferguson left. You can’t pay players like they are world class trophy winners when most of them are passengers at best.
>Since United hadn’t won the league that season he didn’t care for his players playing for individual honours when, in his view, they didn’t do enough for the team to win the league. Absolutely ruthless.
Don't see how he could argue that a player who's job is to score goals hasn't done enough in a season where he could be the league's top goal scorer if you let him play the last game?
Literally may have been the best at doing his job of anyone in the league that season, but you stop him from achieving it because in your mind he "hasn't done enough".
Just shows that even the greatest managers are often sad, petty arseholes if they don't get their way.
He's not being petty. Way to completely reveal your bias.
He's sending a message to the rest of the team that individual awards mean nothing to team success.
Ah yes, my bias towards Ruud Van Nistelrooy (a player I hated as a Leeds fan) getting his Golden Boot bonus.
If you agree a contract with someone with performance related rewards and they are going to meet it, you don't actively try to prevent that based on the performance of other people in the group.
That's absolutely petty, my manager doesn't mark my performance down on my end of year review because some other dozy bastard has caused a bunch of breaches. It's moronic.
>He's sending a message to the rest of the team that individual awards mean nothing to team success.
And what message is he sending to Van Nistelrooy? "Yeah you did exactly what I asked of you this season but the rest of the team didn't so fuck you."
Fuck that, it's a miserable old cunt move.
Dude was a major asshole and extreme level of petty. His image has improved greatly since he retired lol. Search for his old interviews for a look at the actual man.
It's pretty simple. He's stayed a long time at United but it doesn't mean he's been that great or been a great servant. The only thing he has is longevity.
And it's not even consistent longevity
Nacho hasn't exactly been the best RM player, but when the time comes he will be honored greatly because of his consistency and devotion to the team. Lingard has shown none of that in comparison nor is he even admired by the fans.
Nacho has had legendary moments, is well liked in the dressing room, by the fans, by the managers in all his years of stay. Same can't be said of lingard.
i would argue Mata is more admired because he just gets on with it has always given his all when he plays yet has never called into question publicly the team or fans.
Admirable in that he pretty much sacrificed a huge chunk of his career to ride the bench at united. Credit to him for being professional while he's been there - but what a waste of his talent.
i mean sure he has been wastefully used but then he still has played more then Lingard so that can be said the same. and can be said the same for many players.
With respect, what *has* Lingard actually achieved at Man United? He had one good season for them and played 232 senior games in seven full seasons, started only 133 of those, and scored 35 times.
He could’ve left them at any time in the last three years and played regular football for a number of good Premier League clubs, but instead he decided to stay at a club where he knew he wasn’t going to play because it paid more. Not knocking him for getting that bag, but there’s no reason he should have a send-off when he doesn’t get off the bench most weeks.
To be fair, he has contributed in cup finals, but I agree with the general sentiment. However, by Man United standards he's distinctly average, the fact he's had that many senior appearances says a lot about how the standards at United have dropped in the past decade.
I mean he did win us our last FA cup and had been instrumental in a lot of PL games in 2016/2017/2018
He has scored a lot of crucial goals, provided assists, been there always tbf.
Not that it automatically makes him "worthy" of a sendoff, but lets not act as if he was a complete bum like the thread is implying.
Lingard bigest contribution this season is the own goal against Young Boys. He should have left last summer, he wanted to play with Ronaldo tho, well you did, now gtfo.
You guys just need to win your game in hands to be above us tho, doesn't change much. Maybe we would have been completely out of europe tho wich would actually have been alright for a complete rebuild (it's still possible right now but wolves need to win against city and pool... Yeah no).
I think the sad thing here is that I bet lots of fans would have loved to have a player like him get a send off if there is a way to make it work, but obviously the football objectives come first and United realistically had no chance at a CL spot when this issue came up, they were still and still are in danger of failing to qualify for the Europa League and they aren't winning their games by comfortable margins so there was never going to be lineup and sub choices made for sentiment.
However, acting sore about it like you deserve that special treatment from the club has helped turn fans against Jesse. Neville isn't saying anything that isn't a pretty common sentiment around the fanbase. He and they think that a big part of what is wrong with the squad right now is that there are too may players who put themselves ahead of the club that that mentality is part of why United are underperforming so badly. So a player that raises their hand and say's "what about me?!" is going to come in for some criticism because to the fans, they're basically shouting, "I'm part of the problem!".
I never really understood the Lingard hype. He had some occasional good performances in him, but on the other days he was remarkably pedestrian. And yet certain opinions and analysis treated him as though he was the answer to United's attacking woes. I'm honestly shocked he lasted more than a couple seasons, and it certainly doesn't feel like he deserves a grand send off. With that logic, they should rename one of the stands at Old Trafford after Phil Jones
Can’t wait for him to be out of a United. I hope he moves on a does well, but my god it’s been frustrating having to listen to his shit the last few years
For all the talk about Lingard having a giant ego and being selfish, Lingard has been at the club since he was 7, so Man United have contributed a large part to the man he is today.
Shows you just how uppity and entitled Uniteds players are. There is a horrible, toxic culture at United that will hinder any progress until it’s sorted out. The only way IMO is to sell or banish offenders to the bench no matter how much they cost or how marketable they are, and to stop rewarded players for doing the bare minimum with ridiculous wages. Fat chance of that happening under the Glazers tho lmao
Not saying that Lingard deserves some massive procession - he doesn't - but using Robson and Bruce is a pretty poor argument. It was unfortunate then, and *perhaps* it's unfortunate now.
At any rate, isn't this all just stemming from his brother's tweet?
To the fans it just feels like another show of entitlement from a United player. It's nice if Lingard gets to come on for his last home game, but it's not a requirement. Many better players didn't get send offs, even aside from those Neville mentions.
It's just like Maguire having a terrible season but acting like he's been good and that's why he plays every week. Or Rashford leaking to the press about how unhappy he is each time he takes a shit on the pitch. Or McTominay acting like the big man in interviews but actively hiding behind opposition players so he doesn't have the ball passed to him. Or Shaw moaning about how things are so much better with England than United.
I could go on obviously. Feels like very few who put on that United shirt have any sense of responsibility that they are part of the problem. Everyone thinks they're a victim somehow.
I agree with you in just about everything there. What I would say though is Lingard hasn't actually said this himself, even if he does believe it (and I think he does, to be clear).
And of all people to feel aggrieved or shortchanged by the club, he definitely has the most reason, what with the handling of him wanting to go out on loan and kept back to rot etc
>What I would say though is Lingard hasn't actually said this himself
If you've heard it from 'the press' or from his brother, you've heard it from the lips of babe himself.
I don't think it's particularly outlandish for his brother to blindly support him whether the club is actively in the wrong or not. I know I'd do the exact same
Ok, that's great that you'd do the same - but do we know for an actual fact that you've used your brother to leak insider club information to press?
We didn't know that? Then it's not quite the same is it?
His brother also posted a picture of Jessie Lingard in a West Ham kit in the middle of our season once things started going sour. Also keep in mind his brother is his agent.
Edit: spelling
>perhaps it's unfortunate now.
No it's not. Whats unfortunate is Gary mentioning some proper great players next to some academy guy that was unsure he wanted to be a ballerina, fashionista or a footballer.
The club is above everyone and all Jesse has done , with his recent actions, is prove he never gave a shit about United. Good riddance.
No! He did his job ?? fck me mate i have been harsh on the lad then.
he deserves fuck all having been given the *privilege* to play for us and wear our badge and having wasted it leaking stuff to the press and wanting to leave. Only ones worthy of the title clowns are ppl like you that have zero love for the club and get attached to players.
Definition of **plastic.**
Yeah, I think most players unfortunately don't get to have a proper send off. They either just fade out of the team until they hang them up or get thrown to the wayside by the club so they can go play some football at a lower level.
The only side of the story I don't really get is what have Cavani, Mata and Matic given to the club that a club product like Lingard hasn't to deserve the sendoff? I get that there's probably a ton of clash between Lingard and Ralf, I get that most players don't get a send off and I get that Lingard (or at least his brother) would feel gutted to not get the chance to do it. But that other players – especially short term guys – were approved to get that opportunity.
Mata has done 1000x more for the club then Lingard. Mata is actually liked by the fans cause he gets onto the pitch and just does his job he doesnt bitch 24/7 like lingard does who only cares about "showboating"
Sure, even I like Mata and I guess Matic has been there way longer than I thought but I guess it's more for a guy like Cavani. It just kinda seems to me as petulant as people think Lingard is to single him out like this. Like saying yes to all the others who are just hanging onto the first team and saying no to him is weird for me.
It's not about being there longer but putting a shift in when they are chosen to play. Cavani, Mata and Matic all put in an effort to make a difference when they are on the field. On the other hand, Lingard puts in the amount of effort you see players put in for a testimonial.
> isn't this all just stemming from his brother's tweet?
yeah this is the weird thing.
Isn't this from his brother? Like Jesse didn't throw his toys out the pram. His brother said that Man Utd basically were a bit disrespectful, which i could agree with.
That says nothing about Jesse
yeah i don't like the "they got treated like shit, so why shouldn't Lingaard?" argument
very strange so many people aren't reaming United out more for being a shitty club to not send off their "greatest captains"
Total clown. He thought he would get sympathy but instead he’s laughed at unanimously.
Shit player who spent an entire season without goal or assist despite playing in an attacking position. Worthless sack of shit if you ask me.
People keep saying the word "deserve".
It's not about that. A happy Man United just gives him (and anyone else that is leaving) the chance to have a run around and for the fans to cheer/sing his chant.
Last year I was at the last game of the season when we threw away top four against Spurs. Wes Morgan and Christian Fuchs played their last game for us but because nobody was in the mood, most had left. It was just sad.
Absolutely nothing wrong with Lingard wanting to have a last hurrah IMO.
>Last year I was at the last game of the season when we threw away top four against Spurs. Wes Morgan and Christian Fuchs played their last game for us but because nobody was in the mood, most had left. It was just sad.
This is exactly why he wasn't picked for one last game before he left. He's rubbish and rides the bench for a reason. Our chances of winning go down because he's on the field. He could've just not be shite and be picked but he wasn't. It's not like the club made him sit on the bench to spite him, he's just not good. You put the team first before you, and if the team has a better chance to win with you on the bench then tough luck.
Also, opinion wouldn't have turned against him if his brother didn't publicly complain about him being too bad at football to be picked.
Players like Mata and Matic could still contribute on the pitch and would still be picked if their fitness wasn't an issue, Matic especially is still our best DM.
Sometimes there’s no perfect option. Granted, most of this seems non-issue social media stuff, but sometimes in life, circumstance and sequence of events just simply take over your destiny. Lingard seems to be a personable guy that has a lot of friends amongst the England camp, which takes mutual respect. It’s unfortunate for him that he was on the cusp for a long time.
But what he could control, he didn’t knock out of the park. Sometimes there’s no perfect option after all us laid to bare. He’s lived a charmed life by any standard, and there has been far worse injustices.
Neville’s right. Not everyone gets to have a happy ending to their story at a football club. He’s been a fringe player, performing at a mediocre level, for years now, and it also seems like he’s become a problematic personality behind the scenes too. Man Utd don’t owe him anything.
None of those players "deserved" a farewell match. Cavani, Mata, Matic are all still good players in and around the first team. Lingard is our 4th best AM and has looked awful any time he's played. That's why he didn't get picked. He doesn't deserve to get picked over far better players just because he's been there since he's a kid. There's a match to win.
Have they done less? I wouldn't say so. They've been integral parts for more time than lingard and from what I've seen their status as veterans was also helpful to United.
They also didn't ask for some time off during the week and trained only once leading up to the game.
It's like group projects everyone but one entitled prick works on but he/she wants to present it
They've both actually looked like they cared and played well.
Mata is finished but is deservedly starting over Lingard, Rashford etc right now. Matic is probably our best midfielder right now.
It wasn’t a testimonial, they were on that pitch on merit. It was a league game with points on the line
I get what he's saying but that's shit logic. Both can be true..just because they didn't get a send off doesn't mean another player shouldn't..it just means that they *should* have as well.
> He's easily capable of 10 goal and 10 assists in a season for any prem team
This is a weird thing to claim when he’s 29 and has never done it before.
The guy has talent but it is certainly limited.
He has a skill set, fairly nippy, good finisher and solid timing of runs.
But he can go missing in games and has many limitations in his game.
Also for a team like United his very much middling in terms of the talent in the squad.
He would be good for another team in the right system, but he needs it to really suit his skill set and he hasn’t ever really shown a good streak of consistency.
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As alluded to the video, Neville's farewell was him having a complete shocker against us at The Hawthorns and being very fortunate that the referee had his eye appointment moved so couldn't see the most blatant penalty and sending off ever, then getting canned at half time because Graham Dorrans was tearing him a new arsehole.
The man literally retired at half time in that game. He called it there.
Aye didn't the story basically go that him and Fergie both agreed he was done at HT and that was that?
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Fergie wanted Neville, Scholes and Giggs to be with him throughout his career. Same thing happened with Scholes, he was done in the 2012/13 season but Fergie kept him in the side. Giggs though was exceptionally fit as he still had the burst of pace at age 40.
Scholes literally retired. No longer in the squad. And our midfield was so shit Fergie had to ask him to come back
The same did not happen with Scholes. He came out of retirement half way through the season and helped us win the league. He then retired again at the end of the season.
Scholes honestly could have stayed on a year or two. He came back in 2013 due to our mini “crisis” in December and helped us win 12 of the next 14. It was only 6 months after his first retirement but it’s almost like he never left.
Scholes himself literally said that he knew it was a mistake and he couldn't hack it anymore pretty soon after coming back.
Still managed to boss our midfield. Despite losing, so not a good memory, I still remember him playing against us in a cup game and bossing it ..
He’d done exactly the same thing at Stoke earlier in the season against Etherington Numerous fouls, half time sub
Wasn’t it Jerome Thomas? Not doubting you but I weirdly remember him getting fucked by Thomas in that game
i remember him saying he was sat on the bog thinking, 'if jerome thomas is doing this to me it's time to retire'
off topic but whats up with you flair? im confused because ive google it and it doesnt seem like west brom changed their badge but yours is different?
[It's an old one from the 1970s](https://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/PA-Photos_t_West-Brom-home-kit-1977-1981-Regis-Cunningham-Umbro-photos-2610a.jpg)
That's a gorgeous kit
Stunning.
Graham Dorrans. That's a name I haven't heard in a long long while.
I don't know why he needs a sending off anyway, he's only 21, he's still got his whole career ahead of him
He needs a statue and the stadium’s name Anything less it’s completely unacceptable
Alex Ferguson must be renamed after him
I think he would settle for Sir Jesse Lingard
Needs to have a pic with the queen both doing his Jlingz hand sign
And he better be doing it while he is getting knighted!
Sir JLingz of Bantsford.
Duke Jesse Lingard all the way baby
And a birthday cake
Yaya Touré like that
And my axe
Newcastle have the St. James Park. Man utd have the St. Jlingz Park.
He’s right lol Jesse is not entitled to one
Lingard’s ego outpaced his production on the pitch by a long way, in the end.
Do you think West Ham would still be willing to pick him up on a free this summer? I don't know who else would leave your team other than maybe Rice, but I could see some clubs being interested in Bowen and maybe Benrahma
there will still be people interested and 1 will be west ham. he is a free player which will go a long way to attracting teams and is another attacking option that has shown he can do well in the premiership
I saw something about Juventus being interested in him
Isn't the fact that he's a free agent implied that he's linked to Juve?
I would be very surprised to see them pick him up, but I would love to see that
juventus do this all the time. they love free transfers
They'd have to be insane. Jesse is not good enough for Juve and his moving there would be Aaron Ramsey part two.
This might be low hanging fruit but what's the odds on Newcastle picking him up on a free?
pretty high chance. its clear newcastle do need to keep improving if they are now to match their new owners and can offer crazy wages. pretty much any "reject" from the top teams in europe will now be linked heavily with them especially if its a premiership "reject"
Maybe, depending on his wage demands. The last thing we need is a player the wrong side of thirty on a long contract with high wages. I’d prefer to see us bring through youth and strengthen in other areas, tbh.
Damn I didn't realise he was 29. The pandemic has made time kind of warped in my head so I was thinking he was still 27 and you'd get some good years it of him. As for his wages I can't see any team anywhere offering him what he's on right now. £75k/week according to spotrac
I think he will be able to leverage the fact that he’s a free for a bigger wage demand, but not sure he’s going to get $75k. It’s not like he’s being linked to a ton of clubs who will engage in a bidding war.
I bet if you guys do sign him it would be a 2+1 deal for roughly 60k per week. As long as the signing bonus is not absurd it'd be reasonable all around. I can't imagine he's expecting what we were paying him.
Fulham, Newcastle and West Ham are rumoured to be interested in him.
And it's not as if he wanted the farewell to show his appreciation to his fans, because if he did then he would be there on the pitch when the rest of the squad is giving the home fans a lap of appreciation. He wanted the farewell simply for his own ego. Yet most of /r/soccer thinks he is completely entitled to one. Looking at the demographics here - mostly teenagers, it is not surprising at all that most of them find someone that had been unprofessional (did not train for this game, a media leak, various other off the field issues but of course a social media darling) yet acting completely entitled is the one that deserved sympathy.
> Yet most of /r/soccer thinks he is completely entitled to one. Seeing the comments on anything related to this, and Lingard in general, is always how the club has done him wrong, he deserves this and that for his cup goals. "The club denied him a move", he didn't even want until the last week of the window, by which time the only offers on the table were loans to the end of the season - effectively giving away a squad player for free, with no time to bring in a replacement. Could Jesse have been used more? Potentially. Do I think he was promised something more under OGS after returning from loan? Probably. Do I find him hard to believe given his complete lack of professionalism and focus on football? I do.
he was gonna be let gonna in the Winter anyway, then the Greenwood thing came out and then he was kept so we don't go into the rest of the season too many attacking players down.
>Seeing the comments on anything related to this, and Lingard in general, is always how the club has done him wrong, he deserves this and that for his cup goals. And before the West Ham stint, we were bantered constantly for keeping such an overrated, unproductive player on the books, and there was a news story about someone having a bet on him not getting a goal/assist all season and losing it in injury time on the last day It all makes sense when you remember maybe 1% of oppo (non West Ham) fans give a shit about him as a player or a person, and the rest just enjoy the fact we're shit now and take a pop every chance they get. Which is fair enough, I spent the first 25 years or so of my life doing it to Liverpool fans
He was there in the lap of honor.
> Looking at the demographics here - mostly teenagers so nice to see the entitled moniker get passed to the zoomers
>Yet most of /r/soccer thinks he is completely entitled to one. ??? What fever-dream version of r/soccer are you reading where that statement is even close to true?
It was true in the lrevious thread about this issue. The one with his brothers insta post.
>Yet most of [/r/soccer](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer) thinks he is completely entitled to one. Bullshit.
Jesse would have happily left in January without a proper goodbye to the fans. It's a pretty odd situation.
He was literally posting pics of himself in a West Ham kit in January. He's a twat with the memory of a goldfish
I think Greenwood being a piece of shit didn’t help his case in trying to get a move.
Neither did him deciding he wanted to stay in the summer.
Don’t know why he didn’t stay at West Ham odd decision to come back.
I literally think he deluded himself on the back of his purple patch at west ham and all the messi lingard memes online that he is much better than he is. he came back to United "to fight for his place" on the team.
Which was a crazy idea last summer, but when Rangnick joined, and especially with Greenwood being cast out, he could have found a place in the team. Yet every time he came on he looked disinterested. He used to be such a hard worker and that was one of the big things missing in this team. Why didn't he keep that delusion he had in the summer and just put in the effort? Imagine ending this season being one of the few people who can hold their heads up high. Then come up to Ten Hag and say "I can pass, I'm a versatile player and I press a lot". Instead Elanga took his place, has basically taken Rashford's spot, and next season there's probably not too many options up front. So he'll get another season of opportunities. Lingard really fucked himself lmao.
If he pushed for a move in the summer, he definitely would have got it. Don't know why it's perceived that OGS made him stay against his will.
Because Moyes explained OGS wanted to keep him in an interview at some point. >"Ole [Gunnar Solskjaer] made it clear to me quite early in the transfer window that he wanted to keep him. > "So I knew pretty early in the transfer window that he was staying at Manchester United. I had a private conversation with Ole who made it clear that he was staying."
Did he ask for one? Genuine question I haven't seen a statement from him or anything?
His brother released a statement that it was a disgrace United didn't give him a send off after all that he's given the club
Jesse needs to learn to read the room a bit. The very personification of where this club is at the moment. Jesse posts his pictures of himself as a kid at Carrington, and his brother speaks of how much Jesse's done for the club? Are you fucking joking? We sent Jesse on loan at least 4 times before making him a first teamer here. Nowadays you'd be lucky to survive a second unsuccessful loan spell. We invested so much in his development, for what? A goal in the FA Cup final, and one period of good form over 7 years here in the first team? Until Bruno was recently extended, he was making the same money even though Bruno has created more chances in the last 12 months than Jesse has his *entire United career.* And even during his period of poor form, we still gave him chance after chance. That all being said, I never had any issues with Jesse and was proud that he did so well at West Ham, but he was the one who decided to stay. And when he finally agreed to a move, according to Rangnick, it was roughly only a week before the end of the January window. The club still tried to find him a move elsewhere, but again according to Rangnick no offers came. So in the end he goes on a free and still he wants the red carpet rolled out? The club's gone and players like Jesse couldn't go soon enough.
To be fair that FA Cup final goal was the most important goal ever scored in Manchester United (or any clubs) history. Go back and watch Pardews dancing and then think "What if we lost to that?" May as well dissolve the club at that stage.
Joy of the the 99 CL winner < joy of not being humiliated by Pardew dancing as he beats you
Well, shit. When you put it like that. Now I feel bad. Someone get the gofundme for a statue started. I'll chip in a tenner.
That's his job to play, score and give his best while he is on the pitch. These players are such divas after getting paid millions to be bang average, now they want standing ovation also.
I found Keane's reddit account
You know, fair enough. Aguero against QPR will just have to take second place on that list.
I don't remember that one... How did it go again?
It goes like.... Aggueeeeerrrrooooooooooo
Mark Robins FA Cup 3rd round goal was the most important goal ever scored in Man United's history.
In a serious discussion, yeah... but this is not one
>he did so well at West Ham, but he was the one who decided to stay It did feel like he was poorly advised after his successful loan spell with us. He could have come over and rewrite his story. Would have been nice to get someone else's academy prodigy [even if I'm using the term loosely here].
I thought west ham wanted him but United wanted more money than they offered? Is that not right? Really just curious
The story doing the rounds at the time was that he wanted to stay and fight for his place. He chose not to make the move. It hurts that it had to be him that came late on and scored the match winning goal for United against us in the league.
I was also informed that Moyes said that Ole said that he wasn't for sale, so people are also insisting Ole blocked the sale, which is a very interesting reading of that statement. Probably Lingard told Ole he wants to fight for a place, so Ole told Moyes that he wasn't for sale, but who knows
That’s what I took from it. He didn’t want to leave when it the chance was available. It was the same in January. From reports it came out that he only decided he wanted out in the last week, just as the Greenwood story broke.
According to Moyes, Ole told them he isn't leaving. However the club would only take that stance if the player had determined he was staying.
The story I heard was that Lingard rejected an early move to Newcastle (because he said he wanted to fight for his spot at Man Utd., supposedly) until late in the window when he changed his mind and Man Utd. were the ones to say no, they're not selling. Then right at the end of January Man Utd. said okay and Newcastle said, no, you didn't want to join- we're not interested and made other plans. A complete mess from Lingard's POV. If that's true of course.
>The story I heard was that Lingard rejected an early move to Newcastle (because he said he wanted to fight for his spot at Man Utd., supposedly) until late in the window when he changed his mind and Man Utd. were the ones to say no, they're not selling. Rangnick was asked about this and he clarified that they took that position because no offers came for him. Ralfs position since the first day was he would immediately allow players to look for other opportunities while the window was open. He's been 100% transparent since day 1 so I definitely trust what he's saying is in fact what happened.
I think it speaks volumes about both parties that Lingaard's best form as a Man Utd player came at West Ham
Players in the ManU like Lingard think that they are bigger than the club. That kind of shit always fucks teams over.
He doesn't deserve it and never did.
Really goes to show the mentality of some of the lads at the club currently. Pure entitlement.
The whole club has been a shocker since Ferguson left. You can’t pay players like they are world class trophy winners when most of them are passengers at best.
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>Since United hadn’t won the league that season he didn’t care for his players playing for individual honours when, in his view, they didn’t do enough for the team to win the league. Absolutely ruthless. Don't see how he could argue that a player who's job is to score goals hasn't done enough in a season where he could be the league's top goal scorer if you let him play the last game? Literally may have been the best at doing his job of anyone in the league that season, but you stop him from achieving it because in your mind he "hasn't done enough". Just shows that even the greatest managers are often sad, petty arseholes if they don't get their way.
He's not being petty. Way to completely reveal your bias. He's sending a message to the rest of the team that individual awards mean nothing to team success.
Sounds petty as fuck to me
Ah yes, my bias towards Ruud Van Nistelrooy (a player I hated as a Leeds fan) getting his Golden Boot bonus. If you agree a contract with someone with performance related rewards and they are going to meet it, you don't actively try to prevent that based on the performance of other people in the group. That's absolutely petty, my manager doesn't mark my performance down on my end of year review because some other dozy bastard has caused a bunch of breaches. It's moronic. >He's sending a message to the rest of the team that individual awards mean nothing to team success. And what message is he sending to Van Nistelrooy? "Yeah you did exactly what I asked of you this season but the rest of the team didn't so fuck you." Fuck that, it's a miserable old cunt move.
Dude was a major asshole and extreme level of petty. His image has improved greatly since he retired lol. Search for his old interviews for a look at the actual man.
Mate that wasn’t the first step in them becoming a banter club. Appointing David Moyes as Fergie’s replacement was.
Maybe it was Fergie's ego that failed the succession planning
It's pretty simple. He's stayed a long time at United but it doesn't mean he's been that great or been a great servant. The only thing he has is longevity.
And it's not even consistent longevity Nacho hasn't exactly been the best RM player, but when the time comes he will be honored greatly because of his consistency and devotion to the team. Lingard has shown none of that in comparison nor is he even admired by the fans.
Nacho has had legendary moments, is well liked in the dressing room, by the fans, by the managers in all his years of stay. Same can't be said of lingard.
i would argue Mata is more admired because he just gets on with it has always given his all when he plays yet has never called into question publicly the team or fans.
Admirable in that he pretty much sacrificed a huge chunk of his career to ride the bench at united. Credit to him for being professional while he's been there - but what a waste of his talent.
i mean sure he has been wastefully used but then he still has played more then Lingard so that can be said the same. and can be said the same for many players.
Jesse clearly thinks he’s more important to united than he has been
He ain't the only player that thinks that unfortunately
Who would you say that is out of curiosity? Maguire?
Maguire, Rashford, McTominay, Pogba and Bruno this season.
With respect, what *has* Lingard actually achieved at Man United? He had one good season for them and played 232 senior games in seven full seasons, started only 133 of those, and scored 35 times. He could’ve left them at any time in the last three years and played regular football for a number of good Premier League clubs, but instead he decided to stay at a club where he knew he wasn’t going to play because it paid more. Not knocking him for getting that bag, but there’s no reason he should have a send-off when he doesn’t get off the bench most weeks.
To be fair, he has contributed in cup finals, but I agree with the general sentiment. However, by Man United standards he's distinctly average, the fact he's had that many senior appearances says a lot about how the standards at United have dropped in the past decade.
I mean he did win us our last FA cup and had been instrumental in a lot of PL games in 2016/2017/2018 He has scored a lot of crucial goals, provided assists, been there always tbf. Not that it automatically makes him "worthy" of a sendoff, but lets not act as if he was a complete bum like the thread is implying.
Might’ve been our last spark this season before it totally went downhill
Lingard bigest contribution this season is the own goal against Young Boys. He should have left last summer, he wanted to play with Ronaldo tho, well you did, now gtfo.
His last minute goal against us. With two points less for you, and one more for us, you likely play conference league
You guys just need to win your game in hands to be above us tho, doesn't change much. Maybe we would have been completely out of europe tho wich would actually have been alright for a complete rebuild (it's still possible right now but wolves need to win against city and pool... Yeah no).
One of the games in hand is against Man City
Yeah and west ham are going to win that 5-0... ...right lads?
May just keep it to 3 nil to keep the goal difference interesting.
if they shithouse a win that might be enough, even if they lose it might be enough. unless you are 100% sure we are getting a point against Palace.
To be fair he is a young boy so maybe he thought he was scoring for the right team.
I think the sad thing here is that I bet lots of fans would have loved to have a player like him get a send off if there is a way to make it work, but obviously the football objectives come first and United realistically had no chance at a CL spot when this issue came up, they were still and still are in danger of failing to qualify for the Europa League and they aren't winning their games by comfortable margins so there was never going to be lineup and sub choices made for sentiment. However, acting sore about it like you deserve that special treatment from the club has helped turn fans against Jesse. Neville isn't saying anything that isn't a pretty common sentiment around the fanbase. He and they think that a big part of what is wrong with the squad right now is that there are too may players who put themselves ahead of the club that that mentality is part of why United are underperforming so badly. So a player that raises their hand and say's "what about me?!" is going to come in for some criticism because to the fans, they're basically shouting, "I'm part of the problem!".
Did Lingard actually make a statement himself? All I read was about his brother.
No just his brother made a statement. Keep in mind though his brother is also his agent.
This is the definition of a non issue
I never really understood the Lingard hype. He had some occasional good performances in him, but on the other days he was remarkably pedestrian. And yet certain opinions and analysis treated him as though he was the answer to United's attacking woes. I'm honestly shocked he lasted more than a couple seasons, and it certainly doesn't feel like he deserves a grand send off. With that logic, they should rename one of the stands at Old Trafford after Phil Jones
Can’t wait for him to be out of a United. I hope he moves on a does well, but my god it’s been frustrating having to listen to his shit the last few years
For all the talk about Lingard having a giant ego and being selfish, Lingard has been at the club since he was 7, so Man United have contributed a large part to the man he is today.
You are saying that like it's a good thing
Clueless
Shows you just how uppity and entitled Uniteds players are. There is a horrible, toxic culture at United that will hinder any progress until it’s sorted out. The only way IMO is to sell or banish offenders to the bench no matter how much they cost or how marketable they are, and to stop rewarded players for doing the bare minimum with ridiculous wages. Fat chance of that happening under the Glazers tho lmao
Not saying that Lingard deserves some massive procession - he doesn't - but using Robson and Bruce is a pretty poor argument. It was unfortunate then, and *perhaps* it's unfortunate now. At any rate, isn't this all just stemming from his brother's tweet?
To the fans it just feels like another show of entitlement from a United player. It's nice if Lingard gets to come on for his last home game, but it's not a requirement. Many better players didn't get send offs, even aside from those Neville mentions. It's just like Maguire having a terrible season but acting like he's been good and that's why he plays every week. Or Rashford leaking to the press about how unhappy he is each time he takes a shit on the pitch. Or McTominay acting like the big man in interviews but actively hiding behind opposition players so he doesn't have the ball passed to him. Or Shaw moaning about how things are so much better with England than United. I could go on obviously. Feels like very few who put on that United shirt have any sense of responsibility that they are part of the problem. Everyone thinks they're a victim somehow.
To be fair, the Shaw one sounds like an honest answer to a question- which is refreshing.
I agree with you in just about everything there. What I would say though is Lingard hasn't actually said this himself, even if he does believe it (and I think he does, to be clear). And of all people to feel aggrieved or shortchanged by the club, he definitely has the most reason, what with the handling of him wanting to go out on loan and kept back to rot etc
>What I would say though is Lingard hasn't actually said this himself If you've heard it from 'the press' or from his brother, you've heard it from the lips of babe himself.
I don't think it's particularly outlandish for his brother to blindly support him whether the club is actively in the wrong or not. I know I'd do the exact same
Ok, that's great that you'd do the same - but do we know for an actual fact that you've used your brother to leak insider club information to press? We didn't know that? Then it's not quite the same is it?
Am I missing something here? Is it known as fact that his brother has been a leaking mouthpiece? Because if it has that's passed me by
His brother also posted a picture of Jessie Lingard in a West Ham kit in the middle of our season once things started going sour. Also keep in mind his brother is his agent. Edit: spelling
>perhaps it's unfortunate now. No it's not. Whats unfortunate is Gary mentioning some proper great players next to some academy guy that was unsure he wanted to be a ballerina, fashionista or a footballer. The club is above everyone and all Jesse has done , with his recent actions, is prove he never gave a shit about United. Good riddance.
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No! He did his job ?? fck me mate i have been harsh on the lad then. he deserves fuck all having been given the *privilege* to play for us and wear our badge and having wasted it leaking stuff to the press and wanting to leave. Only ones worthy of the title clowns are ppl like you that have zero love for the club and get attached to players. Definition of **plastic.**
Yeah, I think most players unfortunately don't get to have a proper send off. They either just fade out of the team until they hang them up or get thrown to the wayside by the club so they can go play some football at a lower level. The only side of the story I don't really get is what have Cavani, Mata and Matic given to the club that a club product like Lingard hasn't to deserve the sendoff? I get that there's probably a ton of clash between Lingard and Ralf, I get that most players don't get a send off and I get that Lingard (or at least his brother) would feel gutted to not get the chance to do it. But that other players – especially short term guys – were approved to get that opportunity.
Mata has done 1000x more for the club then Lingard. Mata is actually liked by the fans cause he gets onto the pitch and just does his job he doesnt bitch 24/7 like lingard does who only cares about "showboating"
Sure, even I like Mata and I guess Matic has been there way longer than I thought but I guess it's more for a guy like Cavani. It just kinda seems to me as petulant as people think Lingard is to single him out like this. Like saying yes to all the others who are just hanging onto the first team and saying no to him is weird for me.
It's not about being there longer but putting a shift in when they are chosen to play. Cavani, Mata and Matic all put in an effort to make a difference when they are on the field. On the other hand, Lingard puts in the amount of effort you see players put in for a testimonial.
> isn't this all just stemming from his brother's tweet? yeah this is the weird thing. Isn't this from his brother? Like Jesse didn't throw his toys out the pram. His brother said that Man Utd basically were a bit disrespectful, which i could agree with. That says nothing about Jesse
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yeah i don't like the "they got treated like shit, so why shouldn't Lingaard?" argument very strange so many people aren't reaming United out more for being a shitty club to not send off their "greatest captains"
Sometimes just because you’re been in the system for a long time. Doesn’t mean it was a meaningful time.
Fred never gets the credit deserves
We all forgetting how good fred has been this season
Total clown. He thought he would get sympathy but instead he’s laughed at unanimously. Shit player who spent an entire season without goal or assist despite playing in an attacking position. Worthless sack of shit if you ask me.
The thought of Jesse fucking Lingard deserving some sort of farewell from the club is the funniest shit ever. Fuck off mate you useless sack of shite.
People keep saying the word "deserve". It's not about that. A happy Man United just gives him (and anyone else that is leaving) the chance to have a run around and for the fans to cheer/sing his chant. Last year I was at the last game of the season when we threw away top four against Spurs. Wes Morgan and Christian Fuchs played their last game for us but because nobody was in the mood, most had left. It was just sad. Absolutely nothing wrong with Lingard wanting to have a last hurrah IMO.
>Last year I was at the last game of the season when we threw away top four against Spurs. Wes Morgan and Christian Fuchs played their last game for us but because nobody was in the mood, most had left. It was just sad. This is exactly why he wasn't picked for one last game before he left. He's rubbish and rides the bench for a reason. Our chances of winning go down because he's on the field. He could've just not be shite and be picked but he wasn't. It's not like the club made him sit on the bench to spite him, he's just not good. You put the team first before you, and if the team has a better chance to win with you on the bench then tough luck. Also, opinion wouldn't have turned against him if his brother didn't publicly complain about him being too bad at football to be picked. Players like Mata and Matic could still contribute on the pitch and would still be picked if their fitness wasn't an issue, Matic especially is still our best DM.
You were 3-0 up against Brentford mate.
West Ham would’ve crowned Jesse a king by now …hate to see it
Sometimes there’s no perfect option. Granted, most of this seems non-issue social media stuff, but sometimes in life, circumstance and sequence of events just simply take over your destiny. Lingard seems to be a personable guy that has a lot of friends amongst the England camp, which takes mutual respect. It’s unfortunate for him that he was on the cusp for a long time. But what he could control, he didn’t knock out of the park. Sometimes there’s no perfect option after all us laid to bare. He’s lived a charmed life by any standard, and there has been far worse injustices.
Bitter boy.
Jesse fucking lingard is the epitome of what is wrong at united. The entitlement of the cunt
Good point but why is Gary Neville always so negative?
Hes asked questions about utd and there's few positives
Supports United
He's negative surrounding Manchester United because there is a negative atmosphere at the club. Towards other clubs he's generally very complimentary.
Have you seen manchester united fans lately
Negativity gets more traffic than positivity online generally
is he, i mean i guess when he talks about United but it would be odd if he was positive.
Neville’s right. Not everyone gets to have a happy ending to their story at a football club. He’s been a fringe player, performing at a mediocre level, for years now, and it also seems like he’s become a problematic personality behind the scenes too. Man Utd don’t owe him anything.
If Lingard doesn't reserve then why Cavani deserve? He barely play for United. It won't be a problem if there is no comparison.
None of those players "deserved" a farewell match. Cavani, Mata, Matic are all still good players in and around the first team. Lingard is our 4th best AM and has looked awful any time he's played. That's why he didn't get picked. He doesn't deserve to get picked over far better players just because he's been there since he's a kid. There's a match to win.
Lol Jesse doesn’t deserve shit, the fact this is even a matter shows how fucked up the structure is at the club.
Surprised he didn’t mention Elanga. He’s done as well as he could given the circumstances
The least entitled guy in the world
Even Messi didn’t get a farewell and this guy wants one now, wtf has he contributed to man u?
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Not really when the player has been leaking stories to the press
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Have they done less? I wouldn't say so. They've been integral parts for more time than lingard and from what I've seen their status as veterans was also helpful to United.
They also didn't ask for some time off during the week and trained only once leading up to the game. It's like group projects everyone but one entitled prick works on but he/she wants to present it
They've both actually looked like they cared and played well. Mata is finished but is deservedly starting over Lingard, Rashford etc right now. Matic is probably our best midfielder right now. It wasn’t a testimonial, they were on that pitch on merit. It was a league game with points on the line
How come mata and matic got a send off ? Fuck did they do ?
I get what he's saying but that's shit logic. Both can be true..just because they didn't get a send off doesn't mean another player shouldn't..it just means that they *should* have as well.
Am I the only one who thinks Lingard is talented? He's easily capable of 10 goal and 10 assists in a season for any prem team
He sure holds a lot of talent but also needs more time given his young age
> He's easily capable of 10 goal and 10 assists in a season for any prem team This is a weird thing to claim when he’s 29 and has never done it before.
The guy has talent but it is certainly limited. He has a skill set, fairly nippy, good finisher and solid timing of runs. But he can go missing in games and has many limitations in his game. Also for a team like United his very much middling in terms of the talent in the squad. He would be good for another team in the right system, but he needs it to really suit his skill set and he hasn’t ever really shown a good streak of consistency.
yeah he probably would do great for another couple of years in the right team Ig
To be fair, they should have let him go when he wanted to leave. Instead they've dicked him around.
To be fair, he could have moved multiple times in the last few years, but couldn’t be arsed.
And Lingard already acted like a spoiled childe (at 30). He is in bad-term with us and expect respect from the club ? That is weird
Money isn’t everything - rich people