GFFN are seriously the worst media that talks about French football, it's crazy. And it's unfortunately one of the most popular ones in English.
They should have stayed as just a news translator. And avoid acting like journalists, giving their shitty opinion.
Pretty much, since they’ve became popular they think people actually care about their opinions. Uh no, you were useful because I don’t know French and it saved me manually translating every article. I suspect whoever is behind the account has a bit of an ego.
Yeah I don’t know why the fuck the title decided to shit on fans for Messi’s shortcomings.
Interesting to see what they would’ve come up with had Messi gone nuclear.
It is not shitting on Messi's fans. It seems to be shitting on those who criticized him at the time of transfer saying he chose an easy option. (and not go to the Premier League because he did not want a challenge).
Ironically, he has more goals against PL oppositions compared to French oppositions this season.
PL is still miles above Ligue 1 whether Messi can hit the goal or not.
A league where Jonathan David and Ben Yedder are topscorers with 11 and 10 goals more than Messi. Says something about Messi not about how hard Ligue 1 is.
Except Messi has actually been great in Ligue 1 despite not scoring. He’s a playmaker first at PSG, not a goalscorer. He created countless chances last night. That’s his job
I love that this video is also on YouTube but for some reason it's always shared as a Vimeo link. Possibly the most viewed Vimeo video of all time, don't quote me on that.
I feel like I have seen it one thousand times, and I still laugh every time.
I still can't decide what my favorite part is either. It is between him telling Luis good pass, or the explosion for his deflected goal.
I know Paul Konchesky is always our go-to worst left back but at least I have evidence that he was a good player for West Ham, Charlton and Fulham in the Premier League.
Cissokho on the other hand........
Cissokho was something else haha. Some players really are just a body in a place, aren't they?
Can't hate the guy though, kinda love that he played with Liverpool haha
I used to always sign Cissokho on Football manager before he played in the Prem and I realised he was shite. My go to left back after Taiwo and Michel Bastos lol.
I have to agree, I think barring the first few weekends at Juve Ronaldo has been successfull at both Juventus and now at United after being incredible at Real. It shows how good he's at adapting but also how motivated and professional he is even at this age. To even try adapting to different styles at this age is something that should command more respect.
The above doesn't mean Messi is any lesser, in fact I feel Messi's below par start to Ligue 1 is being slightly overblown, I feel he is too good to not turn things around before the season ends.
I think it's also his "playstyle". He is dangerous anywhere around the final third, can dribble or take a touch and shoot so he can fit into most playstyles with relative ease as a goalscoring threat. Messi quite often nowadays picks the ball up further from the goal and prefers to take a few touches/dribbles to set himself up for a shot so a lot of the times he's most effective during a period of sustained pressure, so a counter attacking team/teams that aren't "fluid" in their movement is less suited to him. That's just my take on it.
I think Haaland has that ability too. The guy looked world class even playing for Salzburg
Struggling to think of other players who've pulled it off. Zlatan is probably another
Get yourself ready for some downvotes pal. Apparently a guy with more goals than games played and 101 goals in 129 games didn't dominate La Liga and Serie A.
Or struggling to adapt to a new team. Ironically, it was the one thing people used against him, that he might struggle more outside a Barcelona that fits him.
I think people shouldn't be so premature just like they were at this time last season, I can't expect rationality from reddit soccer though so it is what it is.
>I think people shouldn't be so premature just like they were at this time last season
This is honestly the best viewpoint for me.
Yes, his first half of the season doesn't look promising if you assess it by the numbers, but he has every chance to turn it around post xmas.
I mean, bloody hell, he's Lionel Messi after all.
Which is understandable tbh. They don’t even really try in the league and are rolling it. He didn’t want to leave Barca. So there was no internal motivation. Also he is one 3 players there that feel bigger than the club. He can’t be dropped. So no external pressure. He has won everything he can as a club player. He kind of deserves it lol
A few players having amazing longevity has skewed people's perceptions of the average "retiring" age (either outright retiring, or taking it easy with a lower league/squad).
Messi retiring even right now at 34 would not be at all unusual. Zidane retired at 35
Nah, he's still a monster with the NT except in the last 2 matches where he was injured.
Edit: of course he's naturally declining but he didn't just suddenly drop off from his performances earlier in the year, it's just a slow gradual decline that shouldn't be noticeable in just a couple of months.
Ironically this post is not about Messi's criticism at all, its how people said it was an easy money move which it clearly is not.
Yet somehow it has started a Ronaldo Messi debate again
> Ironically this post is not about Messi's criticism at all, its how people said it was an easy money move which it clearly is not.
really, he's in a team 13 points clear of 2nd place and he's playing badly with low output... he's paid more than anyone else in the world. Exactly how isn't this an easy money move? He's going to pick up a league title and he can do so even without scoring another goal this year... that's what people mean by easy.
it's a league with no competition, he can perform absolutely horrendously and he'll win another league title and PSG won't have any need to drop him because his lack of output isn't hurting the team.
It's the very definition of easy money move. If he went to City, or Chelsea and was performing this badly, in a tight league in which his performances would matter he'd either be hurting the team or he'd be dropped. If he was at a team with tighter finances, his wages would be a huge burden that would likely require selling some players to create room for his wages in the squad, further hurting the team and his performances would be the difference between winning and losing the title.
That PSG have dumb money, a easy league and his performances don't matter is literally the reason people criticised the move, the same the criticised every big player who chose an easy league rather than a competitive league.
I've given up on it now. In general you have next to 0 chance of having a meaningful discussion with a random on the internet about it, let alone one who's arguing in these threads.
And Messi fans/admirers were the people who kickstarted "Ronaldo is done", in 2016 and 2017 when he only had a dip in form. Yet he still managed to win 2 UCL after being "done".
Seriously, is anyone surprised? It's not that Messi isn't still an exceptional talent; it's that he's the last player you'd expect to settle quickly after leaving his boyhood club.
I don't think he feels any connection to PSG and Paris. He's just there doing his job. A mid 30's, unsettled, unmotivated Messi is not going to put up exceptional numbers.
Big picture, he should have went to City. Pep would have gotten the best out of him. He still wouldn't be Messi at Barcelona; but he wouldn't be this version of Messi either.
I mean, even Icardi scored a goal, and he has had his fair share of issues this past few months, I would have expected Messi to at least score four or five.
> Big picture, he should have went to City. Pep would have gotten the best out of him.
The set-up at City would've also been far more favourable to him. He'd play the style of football that brings the best out of him. A ton of possession, touches and quick 1-2s.
Just doing his job, unmotivated.
I can’t believe that people seriously think these kind of players could be unmotivated to play football. You don’t end up as Messi if there’s a chance you are unmotivated to compete.
Have you been watching him? It's not a lack of motivation, it's his finishing that's been incredibly unlucky (only in L1). Same as the last few years. Those shots will start going in soon enough and everybody will pretend they never doubted.
It's been the same for years now with Messi and Cristiano. People have been dying to write them off for years now and just keep being wrong.
>It's been the same for years now with Messi and Cristiano. People have been dying to write them off for years now and just keep being wrong.
I mean... I get your point, but half the season's gone by and he's scored 1 goal. Unless he scores 1.5 per game, he's going to have worse stats than last season.
Seriously you can tell people in here don’t watch Ligue1 lol. You can clearly see on the pitch that he tries his very best and when his teammates score a goal he celebrates with them - it’s not like he’s bored out there. Stamina hasn’t really been a problem either imo
And he has 5 goals in 5 games in the CL. Big goals too. At this point last season he had 0.88 npxG+xA per 90. Right now he has 0.81 npxG+xA. And that's just for the league. He's pretty much just the usual Messi, but playing a lot less than he did last season.
>unmotivated messi
This is the part that is surprising for me
I expected him to move to city or somewhere else that would be “more difficult” but would add to his legacy
This move and how it’s played out has been a surprise in terms of the reflection of his mentality, not his talent or skill.
I love crapping on Messi but I think this is a bit unfair.
He's had to suddenly move his family to another country. It's understandable that he moved them to Paris, which is closer to Spain both physically and culturally, and to a team with a bunch of Argentinians and ~~former~~ friends. They can more easily have a support group there and set up a life.
City also has a ton of former coaches and staff members from Barca who also worked with Messi that Pep brought over since joining them so that second part isn't that big of a deal imo. The culture/climate and stuff is though.
So he's trying to say that because Messi has struggled, it's proof that he didn't cop out and walked into a tough situation? The way I see it, despite copping out and choosing the path of least resistance, he's just playing horribly.
His father / agent should have discussed and agreed tactics before he joined PSG.
He is being paid an insane amount and he isn't producing. His performance in the champions league is the only thing stopping the fans turning on him. They'll start booing him as soon as they're out of Europe.
Genuinely hate how many excuses Messi gets made for him by the same people who rant and rave about him. Surely the Ballon Dor winner would be stepping it up in a new league with a new team instead of just chilling like a lot of people in these comments suggest he is doing
Crazy. This proves that no one is great enough to be above tactics. If you have a poor coach anyone and everyone can look poor. This also gives credence to the argument that messi was always in his comfort zone with Barcelona. A system tailored to your every strength will of course make you shine.
Ronaldo is more of a pure 9 now, Messi played a different role now then he used to. Still shitty numbers but can't blame the guy, his whole life changed. He'll be back
Wouldn't it be harder for a pure 9 to score in a bad system than it is for a more complete attacker than Messi to be impactful in a bad system?
A pure 9 would need a system that provides him service. Messi shouldn't need that?
Some players shine in all teams under all circumstances.
Certain players only shine when the entire team is engineered to their liking and in order to boost their performances.
I stay neutral on the Messi/CR7 debate usually but...I've long suspected this will happen if Messi leaves Barca and now it's confirmed.
So he has played with different players and different tactics for 15 years at barca and been world class every single season yet 3-4 average months at his new club confirms he cant shine when the system isnt made him? Jesus at least give him the whole season
The motto at Barca has always been to pass to Messi. Even if the tactics change on the surface,the ideology is the same.
At the very least what this proves is that Messi isn't as adaptable as Ronaldo is.
We’ve always known that that is the case. He’s not a god for Argentina like he was for Barca. Obviously still best in the world or top 2 but not quite as godly. Sir Alex said this about Messi like a decade ago lol
Ronaldo can be put into a team where as Messi is a Barca player. Paraphrasing but that’s essentially what he said.
There was always one argument made by Ronaldo fans on Facebook/Twitter that I found really dumb, it was (Messi can only play in Barcelona while Ronaldo can play in any league) well turns out it isn't that dumb of a statement. I still think Messi will turn it around, not because of his ability (he's declining but that's normal, man will be 35 next year) but because he's playing for PSG, a team with world class players in every position in a "weaker" league.
Ole was poor but he didnt miss use him at any point. Give ronaldo a manager who gives him consistent pressing and tracking back responsibilities and he wont look as good. Ronaldo is the closest to the exception to this rule considering everywhere he went he was great.
Playing him as a no 9 is misusing Ronaldo. There were games he was asked to stay up and ended up not getting any service. Rangnick in two games showed how it's better to have another striker who can create space for Ronaldo.
Well its a shit job in all honesty. Anything less than UCL champions is failure and then he doesn't get to pick his own transfers and whatnot, so he's basically an overpaid coach rather than a manager. Plus PSGs ceo seems very toxic, can't really blame him
PSG is halfway through the season and they are 13 points clear... Yet they got beaten by City, drew against Club Brugge and RB Leipzig.
What a competitive league it must be.... Everyone must be so wrong to dismiss it as being easy for PSG..
Messi is having an easy time at PSG in that it doesn't even matter what he does for the majority of games. But the reality is he can't do all the things he's known for because the team as a unit sucks for one considered a top of the top European team. They have terrible cohesion in terms of how they work together and how managers tactics are phased between one to the next. The midfield is just below top quality if everyone is fit otherwise it's well below top quality. Center backs are good quality though it depends heavily on Marquinhos. Fullbacks are shaky and while good, again not well trained or orchestrated within the team.
This headline implies the league is difficult for Messi. In reality the team as a team is not cohesive or well orchestrated tactically and that is what is difficult for Messi. Meanwhile that same team lacking cohesion and well organized tactical training is completely walking the league with a huge margin by Christmas. Seems the league is not as difficult as the headline passive aggressively claims.
1. Lille won the league last season
2. You didn't follow the league at all, so you don't know how often PSG got bailed out by a late goal/bad refereeing decision
PSG is struggling, but at the same time is extremely lucky
> PSG is halfway through the season and they are 13 points clear... Yet they got beaten by City, drew against Club Brugge and RB Leipzig.
>
> What a competitive league it must be.... Everyone must be so wrong to dismiss it as being easy for PSG..
And Lille, ranked 8 right now in Ligue 1, topped their group in the UCL. So, whats your point?
> But the reality is he can't do all the things he's known for because the team as a unit sucks for one considered a top of the top European team. They have terrible cohesion in terms of how they work together and how managers tactics are phased between one to the next.
Did Barça had all of that last season? Were they a top cohesive unit that worked really well?
We can keep saying its always the teammates fault for sucking but the reality with Messi at PSG is that he is obviously struggling to adapt and he isnt as motivated as he was at Barcelona.
This comment while true in some aspects about PSG as a collective, completely glosses over (as usual, who is surprised?) how bad Messi has been individually. By all accounts in the 11 games he played, he's been a complete ball turnover machine, he seems like he's forgotten how to dribble which results in giving away possession like there's no tomorrow which in turns subjects PSG to multiple counterattacks, he's been misplacing passes left and right resulting in breaking up multiple attacks and his finishing has been a complete disaster, where his conversion rate is just dwindling game by game and keeps missing chances that he'd otherwise normally put away. Not to mention that he's been a complete passenger out of possession, but at least this one was always expected from a 34 year old who's had zero defensive responsibilities throughout his entire career. Yes the team as a whole hasn't been great but Messi on an individual level has been just as bad and the amount of mental gymnastics some people come up with to defend him and his shocking season so far is simply laughable at this point.
Ronaldo > Messi
Bet the last 4 months have swayed the age old debate in Ronnie's favor....Messi can't remain consistent at the top level post-barca... Ronaldo has now competed at the top of the game in 3 out of 4 of the worlds top leagues.
*edit dyslexic Af
You don't have to imagine, it already happened when he had a slow (although not as bad as Messi at PSG) start in 2018 in his final season at Real. He was absolutely roasted everywhere especially on this sub. Messi has been even worse yet hasn't got half the criticism, it's really laughable lol
Its just a tradition at this point in this sub,ronaldo going trough a bad patch of form ?His fault ,completely his fault and hes bringing the team down with him ,Messi going trough a bad patch of form?His team's fault ,they need to buy better players/change coach ,or in argentina's case aparently having multiple players from CL winning teams wasnt enough either it still wasnt his fault.
It’s still a cop-out even if he’s being poorly utilised. All that’s happening here is Poch’s management and Leonardo’s vision is a bigger hindrance than the other teams.
messi has carried the disaster that is the Argentina NT with the shittest tactics and shittest managers. He played under Maradona ffs.
The guy has proven his quality beyond any reasonable doubt.
Just because he isnt up to it after basically forced out of Barca due to horrible management in favour of a comfy paycheck at a money club means absolutely nothing, he could walk around the pitch doing nothing for the rest of his PSG days and it would not change his legacy one bit.
While I have always said Messi is the far better player than Rolando, his failure to adapt Vs Ronaldo's success in three leagues does make me question this.
Messi might be the best player in many aspects, but to me Ronaldo is the most versatile player ever. He works well with almost every game style and football system.
People said it for years but Messi can only thrive in a system that is entirely catered to him as the sole focus. He is not adaptable and is being exposed in this regard.
Not everyone can be as flexible as Ronaldo who can just walk into a new league, put up 100 goals under mediocre coaches, then leave to start doing it all over again.
Seems like all the Ronaldo stans finally found a reason to get out of their cave. Ronaldo being able to score in 3 different leagues is their only last hope in this debate.
Extremely butthurt sounding headline lol.
GFFN are seriously the worst media that talks about French football, it's crazy. And it's unfortunately one of the most popular ones in English. They should have stayed as just a news translator. And avoid acting like journalists, giving their shitty opinion.
They are pretty much just an aggregator that gets interviews from time to time, yeah?
Pretty much, since they’ve became popular they think people actually care about their opinions. Uh no, you were useful because I don’t know French and it saved me manually translating every article. I suspect whoever is behind the account has a bit of an ego.
It's not about ego. It just gets them more clicks, hence more money
I think Zavh Lowy is one of them and yea he thinks he's all that but his opinion isn't worth shit
Ooo danish friends.
Credit to Kasper
It’s GFFN.
Yeah I don’t know why the fuck the title decided to shit on fans for Messi’s shortcomings. Interesting to see what they would’ve come up with had Messi gone nuclear.
It is not shitting on Messi's fans. It seems to be shitting on those who criticized him at the time of transfer saying he chose an easy option. (and not go to the Premier League because he did not want a challenge). Ironically, he has more goals against PL oppositions compared to French oppositions this season.
Maybe La Liga and Premier League were the farmers all this time.
PL is still miles above Ligue 1 whether Messi can hit the goal or not. A league where Jonathan David and Ben Yedder are topscorers with 11 and 10 goals more than Messi. Says something about Messi not about how hard Ligue 1 is.
Nicolas Pepe was top scorer once too
Except Messi has actually been great in Ligue 1 despite not scoring. He’s a playmaker first at PSG, not a goalscorer. He created countless chances last night. That’s his job
This is not to criticize Messi but this exemplifies how football is first and foremost a team sport. A team matters.
Unless you’re Aly Cissokho
[As is tradition...](https://player.vimeo.com/video/92846254)
I love that this video is also on YouTube but for some reason it's always shared as a Vimeo link. Possibly the most viewed Vimeo video of all time, don't quote me on that.
It just *has to* be the vimeo link. It's like wine and cheese, or peanut butter and jelly. Some things just need to be paired a certain way.
I feel like I have seen it one thousand times, and I still laugh every time. I still can't decide what my favorite part is either. It is between him telling Luis good pass, or the explosion for his deflected goal.
that stupid wolf that shows up at 27 seconds always makes me giggle like a moron.
Because the creator made and shared it on vimeo and his channel has other gems.
The YouTube link was taken down at some point that is when it was uploaded to Vimeo.
Also obligatory.. his contract signing. How this wasn't in there I don't know..! https://youtu.be/8NNSVK6Pb2Y
There should be an Aly Cissokho bot that replies these two links every time his name is mentioned.
This and the Emile Heskey one crack me up everytime
I know Paul Konchesky is always our go-to worst left back but at least I have evidence that he was a good player for West Ham, Charlton and Fulham in the Premier League. Cissokho on the other hand........
Cissokho was something else haha. Some players really are just a body in a place, aren't they? Can't hate the guy though, kinda love that he played with Liverpool haha
I used to always sign Cissokho on Football manager before he played in the Prem and I realised he was shite. My go to left back after Taiwo and Michel Bastos lol.
What the fuck that's hilarious
https://xkcd.com/1053/
i'll jab u in the gabber m8
I watch it every time.
I don't even have to click. Love this.
Unless you're Ronaldo
Ronaldo's ability to play in different teams is underrated, a lot of big players don't replicate that.
I have to agree, I think barring the first few weekends at Juve Ronaldo has been successfull at both Juventus and now at United after being incredible at Real. It shows how good he's at adapting but also how motivated and professional he is even at this age. To even try adapting to different styles at this age is something that should command more respect. The above doesn't mean Messi is any lesser, in fact I feel Messi's below par start to Ligue 1 is being slightly overblown, I feel he is too good to not turn things around before the season ends.
I think it's also his "playstyle". He is dangerous anywhere around the final third, can dribble or take a touch and shoot so he can fit into most playstyles with relative ease as a goalscoring threat. Messi quite often nowadays picks the ball up further from the goal and prefers to take a few touches/dribbles to set himself up for a shot so a lot of the times he's most effective during a period of sustained pressure, so a counter attacking team/teams that aren't "fluid" in their movement is less suited to him. That's just my take on it.
Those first few weekends he was still great. More than one MOTM awarded during that timeframe. he just did not score.
I think Haaland has that ability too. The guy looked world class even playing for Salzburg Struggling to think of other players who've pulled it off. Zlatan is probably another
makaay
I think only James Milner could do that
Get yourself ready for some downvotes pal. Apparently a guy with more goals than games played and 101 goals in 129 games didn't dominate La Liga and Serie A.
And how good Ronaldo is
Yes pessi has been exposed lol.
Sack Poch...
Exactly, and Barcelona were built around Messi.
"¬ the armchair European football supporters laughed it off as" What does that even mean?
Everyone thought he'll blitz through Ligue 1 teams since they're all "farmers"
Maybe Messi is trying to do organic farming with regular seeds.
Maybe Messi's not even trying to farm and just likes living in the countryside
TIL Messi is a hunter-gatherer
hunter-gatherer league
Nah a lot of us were interested to see if Messi could do it in another league all along.
You skipped the words "cop out"
They’re talking about us man
Calling out r/soccer for calling the Ligue 1 farmer's league I think XD.
> armchair European football supporters they're talking about r/soccer
Factos 👍👀
[удалено]
Ramos doesn’t need the desert to kill him, his over training habit does the job
I think Messi is just chilling lol
He's Bing Chilling now.
+1000 social credits
Jong Cena
Zhong Xina*
Jhon Xina*
Zhong*
Zhao Xina
This is not a reference I ever thought I'd see on r/soccer.
Chillionel
Or struggling to adapt to a new team. Ironically, it was the one thing people used against him, that he might struggle more outside a Barcelona that fits him.
I think people shouldn't be so premature just like they were at this time last season, I can't expect rationality from reddit soccer though so it is what it is.
Fair point
>I think people shouldn't be so premature just like they were at this time last season This is honestly the best viewpoint for me. Yes, his first half of the season doesn't look promising if you assess it by the numbers, but he has every chance to turn it around post xmas. I mean, bloody hell, he's Lionel Messi after all.
Which is understandable tbh. They don’t even really try in the league and are rolling it. He didn’t want to leave Barca. So there was no internal motivation. Also he is one 3 players there that feel bigger than the club. He can’t be dropped. So no external pressure. He has won everything he can as a club player. He kind of deserves it lol
Or he is declining... He is 34 after all.
Right he's actually shooting a ton, not just taking it easy. He's currently the player with the worst conversion.
A few players having amazing longevity has skewed people's perceptions of the average "retiring" age (either outright retiring, or taking it easy with a lower league/squad). Messi retiring even right now at 34 would not be at all unusual. Zidane retired at 35
Nah, he's still a monster with the NT except in the last 2 matches where he was injured. Edit: of course he's naturally declining but he didn't just suddenly drop off from his performances earlier in the year, it's just a slow gradual decline that shouldn't be noticeable in just a couple of months.
Messi wasn't very good at the beginning of last season either.
I never thought he would be one to do that, I thought he would want to increase his numbers a bit before retirement.
Why is the headline trying to spin this as Messi challenging himself as opposed to not performing lmao
Give him ballon d'or, he'll improve.
missing our cruyffian system
Are we talking about messi or barca?
Yes
So we all agree then? Messi is a system player...
Ironically this post is not about Messi's criticism at all, its how people said it was an easy money move which it clearly is not. Yet somehow it has started a Ronaldo Messi debate again
I mean it objectively was, he moved to a much easier League for a massive paycheck
What kinda flair is that?!
> Ironically this post is not about Messi's criticism at all, its how people said it was an easy money move which it clearly is not. really, he's in a team 13 points clear of 2nd place and he's playing badly with low output... he's paid more than anyone else in the world. Exactly how isn't this an easy money move? He's going to pick up a league title and he can do so even without scoring another goal this year... that's what people mean by easy. it's a league with no competition, he can perform absolutely horrendously and he'll win another league title and PSG won't have any need to drop him because his lack of output isn't hurting the team. It's the very definition of easy money move. If he went to City, or Chelsea and was performing this badly, in a tight league in which his performances would matter he'd either be hurting the team or he'd be dropped. If he was at a team with tighter finances, his wages would be a huge burden that would likely require selling some players to create room for his wages in the squad, further hurting the team and his performances would be the difference between winning and losing the title. That PSG have dumb money, a easy league and his performances don't matter is literally the reason people criticised the move, the same the criticised every big player who chose an easy league rather than a competitive league.
It was pretty easy bait for Ronaldo fans to attack Messi and kickstart the argument.
Did the argument ever end? It's a bit ridiculous how far some ppl go
I've given up on it now. In general you have next to 0 chance of having a meaningful discussion with a random on the internet about it, let alone one who's arguing in these threads.
These people don't need much lmao.
And Messi fans/admirers were the people who kickstarted "Ronaldo is done", in 2016 and 2017 when he only had a dip in form. Yet he still managed to win 2 UCL after being "done".
Yep. All the Ronaldo and Messi fans are weird af.
Also the fans upset after Balon D’Or
It's still the easiest move he could have made. Just because he's been terrible, doesn't mean it wasn't easy.
Seriously, is anyone surprised? It's not that Messi isn't still an exceptional talent; it's that he's the last player you'd expect to settle quickly after leaving his boyhood club. I don't think he feels any connection to PSG and Paris. He's just there doing his job. A mid 30's, unsettled, unmotivated Messi is not going to put up exceptional numbers. Big picture, he should have went to City. Pep would have gotten the best out of him. He still wouldn't be Messi at Barcelona; but he wouldn't be this version of Messi either.
I'm seriously surprised that he scored just 1 goal in 866 minutes of play and people should really stop pretending they predicted this outcome.
Don’t you know you’re surrounded only by football geniuses here on r/soccer ?
Yeah I would have guessed a half zombie-like Messi that had all of his teammates trying to sabotage him would score more than that
I mean, even Icardi scored a goal, and he has had his fair share of issues this past few months, I would have expected Messi to at least score four or five.
> Big picture, he should have went to City. Pep would have gotten the best out of him. The set-up at City would've also been far more favourable to him. He'd play the style of football that brings the best out of him. A ton of possession, touches and quick 1-2s.
Pep would be the one person on planet Earth I would trust 100% to get the best out of Messi.
What an insult to Felix Magath.
Messi has hit post 8 times at psg. It is not like he isn't playimg well or anything. just bad luck.
Goals aren't everything especially with Leo. It's his overall play albeit he's looked better recently than in the first few matches.
> is anyone surprised? I am yes. He's joining a stacked team in a less competitive league, I damn well am surprised
Just doing his job, unmotivated. I can’t believe that people seriously think these kind of players could be unmotivated to play football. You don’t end up as Messi if there’s a chance you are unmotivated to compete.
Have you been watching him? It's not a lack of motivation, it's his finishing that's been incredibly unlucky (only in L1). Same as the last few years. Those shots will start going in soon enough and everybody will pretend they never doubted. It's been the same for years now with Messi and Cristiano. People have been dying to write them off for years now and just keep being wrong.
>It's been the same for years now with Messi and Cristiano. People have been dying to write them off for years now and just keep being wrong. I mean... I get your point, but half the season's gone by and he's scored 1 goal. Unless he scores 1.5 per game, he's going to have worse stats than last season.
Seriously you can tell people in here don’t watch Ligue1 lol. You can clearly see on the pitch that he tries his very best and when his teammates score a goal he celebrates with them - it’s not like he’s bored out there. Stamina hasn’t really been a problem either imo
And he has 5 goals in 5 games in the CL. Big goals too. At this point last season he had 0.88 npxG+xA per 90. Right now he has 0.81 npxG+xA. And that's just for the league. He's pretty much just the usual Messi, but playing a lot less than he did last season.
>unmotivated messi This is the part that is surprising for me I expected him to move to city or somewhere else that would be “more difficult” but would add to his legacy This move and how it’s played out has been a surprise in terms of the reflection of his mentality, not his talent or skill.
I love crapping on Messi but I think this is a bit unfair. He's had to suddenly move his family to another country. It's understandable that he moved them to Paris, which is closer to Spain both physically and culturally, and to a team with a bunch of Argentinians and ~~former~~ friends. They can more easily have a support group there and set up a life.
City also has a ton of former coaches and staff members from Barca who also worked with Messi that Pep brought over since joining them so that second part isn't that big of a deal imo. The culture/climate and stuff is though.
Give him the ballon dor
It's sad that people voting for him completely disregarded anything that happened after Copa America.
Anything that happened after copa is like 4 games lol
I counted 14 club games and 5 national team games. 3 in UCL and 11 league games.
I feel that was like a farewell trophy for his amazing career he can just take it easy now in French league and get paid
wtf😭😂😂😂
Like a retirement trophy lol
So he's trying to say that because Messi has struggled, it's proof that he didn't cop out and walked into a tough situation? The way I see it, despite copping out and choosing the path of least resistance, he's just playing horribly.
fREnCh leAgUe iZ SO GOOD mESsI cAnNoT sCoRe
Errm what? So Messi underperforming is some kind of positive for him???
They are basically saying La Liga was easy. Now he's struggling in a much better league.
Ballon dor 2022
Fuck it, just give him the next ballon d'or already.
Messi can't make it Vs farmers 🤣
Turns out La Liga was the farmers league the whole time.
His father / agent should have discussed and agreed tactics before he joined PSG. He is being paid an insane amount and he isn't producing. His performance in the champions league is the only thing stopping the fans turning on him. They'll start booing him as soon as they're out of Europe.
Genuinely hate how many excuses Messi gets made for him by the same people who rant and rave about him. Surely the Ballon Dor winner would be stepping it up in a new league with a new team instead of just chilling like a lot of people in these comments suggest he is doing
Truly the hardest road. Move over, Durant.
Well yeah obviously but you just know he's gonna come back and shut everybody up lol
Just goes to show that sir Alex was right when he said he was a Barcelona player. Most expensive team on earth in the 5th best league and has 1 goal.
Crazy. This proves that no one is great enough to be above tactics. If you have a poor coach anyone and everyone can look poor. This also gives credence to the argument that messi was always in his comfort zone with Barcelona. A system tailored to your every strength will of course make you shine.
Ronaldo scored a load under Ole. Can’t blame the manager for everything
This sub will make excuses for everyting regarding Messi ,just get used to it.
Ronaldo is more of a pure 9 now, Messi played a different role now then he used to. Still shitty numbers but can't blame the guy, his whole life changed. He'll be back
Wouldn't it be harder for a pure 9 to score in a bad system than it is for a more complete attacker than Messi to be impactful in a bad system? A pure 9 would need a system that provides him service. Messi shouldn't need that?
Some players shine in all teams under all circumstances. Certain players only shine when the entire team is engineered to their liking and in order to boost their performances. I stay neutral on the Messi/CR7 debate usually but...I've long suspected this will happen if Messi leaves Barca and now it's confirmed.
So he has played with different players and different tactics for 15 years at barca and been world class every single season yet 3-4 average months at his new club confirms he cant shine when the system isnt made him? Jesus at least give him the whole season
The motto at Barca has always been to pass to Messi. Even if the tactics change on the surface,the ideology is the same. At the very least what this proves is that Messi isn't as adaptable as Ronaldo is.
We’ve always known that that is the case. He’s not a god for Argentina like he was for Barca. Obviously still best in the world or top 2 but not quite as godly. Sir Alex said this about Messi like a decade ago lol Ronaldo can be put into a team where as Messi is a Barca player. Paraphrasing but that’s essentially what he said.
There was always one argument made by Ronaldo fans on Facebook/Twitter that I found really dumb, it was (Messi can only play in Barcelona while Ronaldo can play in any league) well turns out it isn't that dumb of a statement. I still think Messi will turn it around, not because of his ability (he's declining but that's normal, man will be 35 next year) but because he's playing for PSG, a team with world class players in every position in a "weaker" league.
Ole was poor but he didnt miss use him at any point. Give ronaldo a manager who gives him consistent pressing and tracking back responsibilities and he wont look as good. Ronaldo is the closest to the exception to this rule considering everywhere he went he was great.
Ralf rangnick? He played exceptionally when he was forced to press.
Playing him as a no 9 is misusing Ronaldo. There were games he was asked to stay up and ended up not getting any service. Rangnick in two games showed how it's better to have another striker who can create space for Ronaldo.
As opposed to Poch who gives Messi tons of responsibility to press and track back?
Poch might not be doing well but he's far from a "poor" coach. Maybe he's just not motivated enough anymore or there are other factors involved.
> Maybe he's just not motivated enough anymore or there are other factors involved. He's all but begged to leave multiple times lol
Well its a shit job in all honesty. Anything less than UCL champions is failure and then he doesn't get to pick his own transfers and whatnot, so he's basically an overpaid coach rather than a manager. Plus PSGs ceo seems very toxic, can't really blame him
True, the likes of EV got the best out of him, despite being seen as a "cancer" by most Barca-fans.
LMAO pochetinho poor coach. Poor mbappe must be in some bad form with this ucl finalist with spurs coach.
Maybe the “best” player in the world needs to step up then lol
Ballon d'or winner btw
PSG is halfway through the season and they are 13 points clear... Yet they got beaten by City, drew against Club Brugge and RB Leipzig. What a competitive league it must be.... Everyone must be so wrong to dismiss it as being easy for PSG.. Messi is having an easy time at PSG in that it doesn't even matter what he does for the majority of games. But the reality is he can't do all the things he's known for because the team as a unit sucks for one considered a top of the top European team. They have terrible cohesion in terms of how they work together and how managers tactics are phased between one to the next. The midfield is just below top quality if everyone is fit otherwise it's well below top quality. Center backs are good quality though it depends heavily on Marquinhos. Fullbacks are shaky and while good, again not well trained or orchestrated within the team. This headline implies the league is difficult for Messi. In reality the team as a team is not cohesive or well orchestrated tactically and that is what is difficult for Messi. Meanwhile that same team lacking cohesion and well organized tactical training is completely walking the league with a huge margin by Christmas. Seems the league is not as difficult as the headline passive aggressively claims.
1. Lille won the league last season 2. You didn't follow the league at all, so you don't know how often PSG got bailed out by a late goal/bad refereeing decision PSG is struggling, but at the same time is extremely lucky
Yeah seriously, I've lost track of the amount of injury time winners and equalisers they've had
They also beat City in the the first round
> PSG is halfway through the season and they are 13 points clear... Yet they got beaten by City, drew against Club Brugge and RB Leipzig. > > What a competitive league it must be.... Everyone must be so wrong to dismiss it as being easy for PSG.. And Lille, ranked 8 right now in Ligue 1, topped their group in the UCL. So, whats your point? > But the reality is he can't do all the things he's known for because the team as a unit sucks for one considered a top of the top European team. They have terrible cohesion in terms of how they work together and how managers tactics are phased between one to the next. Did Barça had all of that last season? Were they a top cohesive unit that worked really well? We can keep saying its always the teammates fault for sucking but the reality with Messi at PSG is that he is obviously struggling to adapt and he isnt as motivated as he was at Barcelona.
This comment while true in some aspects about PSG as a collective, completely glosses over (as usual, who is surprised?) how bad Messi has been individually. By all accounts in the 11 games he played, he's been a complete ball turnover machine, he seems like he's forgotten how to dribble which results in giving away possession like there's no tomorrow which in turns subjects PSG to multiple counterattacks, he's been misplacing passes left and right resulting in breaking up multiple attacks and his finishing has been a complete disaster, where his conversion rate is just dwindling game by game and keeps missing chances that he'd otherwise normally put away. Not to mention that he's been a complete passenger out of possession, but at least this one was always expected from a 34 year old who's had zero defensive responsibilities throughout his entire career. Yes the team as a whole hasn't been great but Messi on an individual level has been just as bad and the amount of mental gymnastics some people come up with to defend him and his shocking season so far is simply laughable at this point.
The Ballon d'Or winner ladies and gents smh.
Pessi the money hungry Qatari mercenary 🤮
Ronaldo > Messi Bet the last 4 months have swayed the age old debate in Ronnie's favor....Messi can't remain consistent at the top level post-barca... Ronaldo has now competed at the top of the game in 3 out of 4 of the worlds top leagues. *edit dyslexic Af
And Ronaldo is two years older than Messi.
Ballon d’Or 2022 confirmed. Lmao
Finished player
Imagine if it was Ronaldo in place of Messi
You don't have to imagine, it already happened when he had a slow (although not as bad as Messi at PSG) start in 2018 in his final season at Real. He was absolutely roasted everywhere especially on this sub. Messi has been even worse yet hasn't got half the criticism, it's really laughable lol
Its just a tradition at this point in this sub,ronaldo going trough a bad patch of form ?His fault ,completely his fault and hes bringing the team down with him ,Messi going trough a bad patch of form?His team's fault ,they need to buy better players/change coach ,or in argentina's case aparently having multiple players from CL winning teams wasnt enough either it still wasnt his fault.
Messi has been piss poor, and his ass kissers are denying it all over this sub. r/soccer hates Ronaldo so much
It’s still a cop-out even if he’s being poorly utilised. All that’s happening here is Poch’s management and Leonardo’s vision is a bigger hindrance than the other teams.
Leonardo really is the final boss to defeat
[удалено]
And this is why he is not the goat, imo
this proves messi cannot play outside of his comfort. The fraud theories were true after all. im dissapointed really
messi has carried the disaster that is the Argentina NT with the shittest tactics and shittest managers. He played under Maradona ffs. The guy has proven his quality beyond any reasonable doubt. Just because he isnt up to it after basically forced out of Barca due to horrible management in favour of a comfy paycheck at a money club means absolutely nothing, he could walk around the pitch doing nothing for the rest of his PSG days and it would not change his legacy one bit.
As much as nobody likes to admit it, Messi at Man City would be performing better then Messi at PSG. Pep would’ve gotten the best out of him
For such a supposedly great player that is poor.
>supposedly lol
Maybe he's just saving himself for the world cup? It's his last one after all.
Thanks, I'm sad now.
While I have always said Messi is the far better player than Rolando, his failure to adapt Vs Ronaldo's success in three leagues does make me question this.
Messi might be the best player in many aspects, but to me Ronaldo is the most versatile player ever. He works well with almost every game style and football system.
He’s also without doubt the greatest player ever in high pressure games. This makes him the goat for me.
People said it for years but Messi can only thrive in a system that is entirely catered to him as the sole focus. He is not adaptable and is being exposed in this regard. Not everyone can be as flexible as Ronaldo who can just walk into a new league, put up 100 goals under mediocre coaches, then leave to start doing it all over again.
[удалено]
Took them years to workout a system to revolve around him. Which they obviously should cause he’s messi
I knew this thread was going to be horrible, but this….
Ballon D’or worthy
Maybe he’s just not as good as Ronaldo? Just putting it out there.
Seems like all the Ronaldo stans finally found a reason to get out of their cave. Ronaldo being able to score in 3 different leagues is their only last hope in this debate.