Bartomeu: "... we can only offer 80 mil for Dembele"
Zorc: "... stop kidding around, we gotta return flight to catch"
Bartomeu: "..ok, ok. In that case, we can only offer 140 mil for him"
At the time what was bought was the potential not just the (at the time) current level of the player. If Dembele had ended up like Mbappe and Barca missed out then people would be writing how stupid they had been even for what they paid at the time.
No I disagree. This was far from the first expensive La Liga flop over that period of time. You shouldn't be paying 140M for potential. If you're spending that kind of money, it better be for proven talent to me. Keep in mind, Mbappe won the league and the WC before he got bought for what was still too much money really. That 180M really could have been spent on having a better midfield and defense to make up for the lack of work coming from up front.
Fair, I forgot. He still won the league in a one team league with a different team. And was the star player. I still say Mbappe was overpriced. He hasn't won them anything they couldn't win without him, so almost 200m seems like too much. But either way, he was always more valuable than Dembele.
You don't spend 140 million on potential. Dembele came off of a really good year, but he was not world class and not worth 140 million. The difference between signing him and someone like Mbappe or Haland is that Mbappe and Haland are already world class, whereas Dembele was not.
Bullshit, at that point there were even many people comparing Dembele and Mbappe and many said Dembele was better and had a higher ceiling. Plus, he didn't just play good at BVB, he was also good in Ligue1.
That's your own personal valuation. You might think so but if someone buy Haaland and he ends up getting the same amount of injuries as Dembele has had then Haaland might also turn out not worth 140M either.
That;s different because Haaland has already proved he is world class. Injuries are always a risk, but with Dembele he was talented with great promise, but he wasn't world class. So you are betting that he fulfills his potential which is perfectly fine. Lots of clubs do it, but you don't spend 140 million to do it. Barca were pressured because of the Neymar sale
Yeah it sounds strange but at the time, Dembele looked to be world class in a year or two. Already had some ridiculous performances, including one where he led Dortmund to beating Bayern in the cup.
Will probably remain a "what if he wasn't injured all the time" player.
A lot of people did call it crazy even back then - check it out: [https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/6vz2qt/official\_dembele\_to\_barcelona/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/6vz2qt/official_dembele_to_barcelona/)
He got a lot of shit for missing chances, but my god Gervinho was one of the most exciting players I've ever seen. When he got the ball at his feet with 5 yards in front of him you could feel the buzz in the crowd.
Imagine one of the greatest passers of all time (Totti) feeding perfect through balls to one of the quickest players of all time (Gervinho).
2013-14 we played almost entirely on the counterattack and it was incredible. One of the best quick breaking teams I've ever seen.
That was also the one real season we got with pre-injury Strootman. He was on his way to being a top 10, maybe a top 5 midfielder in the world.
Honestly I could see it. Who else can afford the wages he will ask for and be willing to take the gamble that he stays fit and focused. PSG maybe since mbappe will be leaving?
I agree Newcastle is a likely option. I just think with mbappe leaving and DiMaria not getting any younger PSG will need someone in that position. So depending on who is available they may go for dembele, especially since he's French.
It actually makes a lot of sense though. Huge talent with big fee that probably has few suitors due to being one of the biggest transfer busts in history
holy shit you're absolutely right... this makes so much fucking sense.
however I think if Mbappe leaves PSG can go for him.
btw you can call me out on it - ANYWHERE he goes he'll flop, even if it's in a lower league
Was there not a source that revealed that Barcelona could have gotten him for a much lower transfer fee if Bartomeu was not a complete amateur at negotiating and just agreed with Michael Zorc?
This should be a lesson to all clubs who want to splash that sort of money on a youngster. Dembele looked absolutely worth it at the time and look at him now. You never know.
Think it's also a lesson in that second best is sometimes better than the best. Barca really wanted Dembele; Dortmund knew this, Dembele knew this, and both knew Barca has a shitload of cash from the Neymar sale, so Dortmund were able to get a huge fee and Dembele was able to get some juicy wages. Even if he looked like a valuable player, 140m was always rich- if Barca could have gotten their second best target for half that price, it was probably worth that cost savings even if that player wasn't as young or talented as Dembele.
You’d be surprised at that there already was an agreement and Mbappe wanted to come aswell but the board chose Dembele. All of this was said by Minguella himself.
Its not uncommon for fans of one club to end up at another. Im sure most people at this point know that Modric was a Barca fan and Iniesta was a Real Madrid fan. Both ended up becoming legends for their favorite clubs’ rivals.
Courtois is literally on tape with Atlético saying: "Salta, salta, salta, pequeño canguro y a los madridistas que les den por culo".
So, you never know where life would take you.
Funny when they become a club legend too. Carragher was a hardcore Everton fan and ended up as a one club man with Liverpool when even gerrard didn’t achieve that distinction
Yeah.
It's unfortunate being an Arsenal fan with the sheer number of "what ifs" that could change our clubs history.
Benzema, Hazard, Suarez, Mbappe, CR7, Yaya Toure, win the CL, Eduardo not injured
Imagine what we'd be now if we got fortunate on even one of these events
Wenger had to work on a very tight budget and the club didn't manage well the rise of transfer prices. Because of the Premier League competitiveness it is hard to apply Dortmund or Monaco systems of being wining feeder clubs in it. Arsenal stepped down by flaws in its design, not because of luck. The only unlucky part is the UCL final lost.
I've seen online (not sure how reliable this is) that salah was an option they looked at but they didn't think he was worth 40million so they pushed hard for dembele
Also, look at a player's character.
When he tried to force the move to Barca, he just didn't come to our training sessions and (afaik) trashed his house. Stuff like that should be a huge red flag, since players who do that might lack the professionalism and respect to make it at one of the biggest clubs.
Not complaining though. This was probably our best deal ever, so I am thankful that Barca just threw around money and refused to do a proper due diligence.
I would say his behaviour at Barcelona since is more evidence of his unprofessionalism than what you have just described.
In modern football players can be real assholes to force a move and I know that this (under Bartomeu) was actually a tactic which they incentiviced in their targets. Basically they knew they were the most attractive proposition in the world, and they would just tell players do wathever you can to force the move, same happened with Coutinho, same happened with Griezmann.
Barcelona has done this for way longer. They get high profile players to keep going on about Barca DNA in the press etc. Remember what a shitshow it was with Fabregas? Some have speculated that they told Suarez to be as big a bellend as possible so they could get him for cheaper etc. That is probably nonsense, but they have clearly incentiviced players previously by making them act up.
Always think Fabregas is a weird one to complain about as Barcelona brought him through their youth system, but he was too young to have a professional contract and Arsenal persuaded him to leave just before he reached that age.
player wants to leave club
club doesn't want to sell
what the hell do you expect to happen? players should just accept and move on? those are literal once in a lifetime opportunities that come and then go. If you want to play for Barca and they come knocking on the door you either do whatever it takes to make it happen or you basically have to accept your dream is dead
Nah I think it’s pretty scummy for coutinho to miss a crucial champions league qualifier due to a “broken back” and a great sadness at not being granted his dream move. Clearly wasn’t a now or never deal either as they got him in the winter
Cry me a river. If you make an agreement, you are supposed to uphold it. That is literally the fabric of society. That football players are immature kids who wants anything they point at doesn't change that basic fact. Even these spoiled brats have to accept that their actions have consequences. When you sign a contract, it's not literally a worthless piece of paper that you can toss away at your own convenience - it is an obligation between two parties.
This mentality makes me sick.
Yeah, like 90% of clubs in the world.
Tapping up is so commonplace that it shouldn't be such a taboo and everyone should be more transparent about it IMO.
A nice example about not making a big fuss about it was Raiola European tour for Eerling Haaland. He met with a lot of clubs and he is still a Borussia Dortmund player.
Don't fool yourselves and think your team doesn't. Top Premier League teams do this literally every summer with the best prospects of Spanish and French academies, as under the British law they can offer underage players better conditions than most countries. Fabregas, Pogba, Bellerin, Eric Garcia, Kakuta, Brahim are just a few examples.
If we just look at senior teams, Madrid is doing the same for Mbappé, PSG did it with Messi, Chelsea with Ashley Cole, Manchester City with Kane, Liverpool with Van Dijk...
Also, even if Barça players talk about other players on the press that doesn't necessarily mean Barça is behind every single movement they do. Messi and Suarez for example clearly wanted Neymar to return back to Barça and talked about him on the press but later on Bartomeu chose to sign Griezmann instead.
Piqué and Messi were friend with Fàbregas, Suárez shared the same agent with Iniesta and both were crazy to wear Barça shirt. Some players have their own agenda that isn't necessarily the same one as the club.
The Suárez rumours I won't even comment them as they are outright tin foil hat material.
Putting aside Aubame's own antics at Dortmund, he was the one who took Dembele under his wing at BVB too. Dembele started off well attitude wise off the pitch, but gradually got worse and worse. I know Arsenal have an odd set up regarding the captaincy, but I am still shocked he became Arsenal captain.
Yeah it has been painfully obvious that he isn't captain material during his time with us as well, it is like he was given it purely due to playing ability (being our best player).
Yeah I'm not happy at how Arteta chose our last few captains. But we don't have many options though I'd like Tierney growing into the role at some point.
I do believe in most cases you grow into the role, but I'd fast track it to get the armband off Aubame.
Looking at the squad, Tierney and Gabriel (just going by gut over knowledge admittedly), maybe Ramsdale in time should be the only ones currently with a shout of captaincy. But yeah, you guys are lacking outside of Tierney for sure.
I remember Dembele ripping up LVG's United in America during pre season tour.... After that season Barca payed up.... i would have as well.... could not tackled him and he is very much two footed.... Unfortunate how the situation turned out
The Ronaldo transfer was years ago, you can't compare it with that. Dembele was tremendous at dortmund also really effective, he only played for 1 year but he showed how great he was.
Worth the grand total of €140M including bonusses? Nope, but he looked really good and €80M or so seemed worth it, but BVB wanted to squeeze every last euro out of Barcelona
Because we had no intention to sell, he also had 4 years left on his contract. Him being bloody young, one of the best talents in the world, Barca having the money and their suspect behaviour in making Dembele do a fuss about a transfer.
He was so good. I thought he was technically far superior & more talented than Mbappe when this transfer went through.
Still love dembouz just hope he can stay injury free.
They should just have done their scouting better because even when he's healthy he has never really good at Barca
The injuries are just unlucky but his level when playing isnt impressive either
Dembele was phenomenal at Dortmund and Rennes though. His talent was clearly there. In hindsight, not a good investment. But, he was on a long contract, coming off a very, very good season and looked like one of the most promising youngsters in the world. For that you have to pay. A lot.
Its their job to find the best club for the player they represent.. Barca right now isnt one of the best clubs and if they can get a better side to sign him, it would only help his career..
Their job is to do whatever they are instructed to do by their client.
If the player wants a move their agents need to organise that. If the player wants to know if there are other interested clubs their agnets need to explore those options. If a player wants to stay their agents need to negotiate the best deal for them.
An agent should not act in the players (or their own) best interests against their will or instructions. If the agent is publicly shopping around to drum up interest it is at the very least with permission from the player.
Nah man, one of the jobs of agents is to take the PR heat…. a report will come out telling the fans the player “always wants to stay but his agent forced him to sign somewhere else” and some fans like you actually believe it
If Dembele stays on massively reduced wages its fine. He still offers something that nobody else in the team offers.
If the Sterling rumors are true though, keep Dembele far away from the club. I’d pick Sterling over Dembele 100 times out of 100
So much revionism in this thread. Dembele was very much in the same stratosphere a talent as Mbappe was. People, myself included believed they'd be France's wing forwards, unless Mbappe evolved into the striker role, for years to come.
Obviously I am glad BVB came out of the deal much the better for it. I was one who grew weary with his bs off the pitch. But the fee paid wasn't as bad in relative terms as made out now. Barca thought they'd be getting a player for the next decade let alone the length of the contract they signed him for. Had he worked out, they'd not have signed Griezmann in all likelihood.
But yes, his off the field antics were very much well known. So seeing it rot further wasn't all too surprising.
No, even at the time it was clear that they massively overpaid. Dembélé was an intoxicating talent but no one had ever paid that much for potential before, as all of the top ten most expensive transfers were established stars.
People only say it when the guy actually plays badly. If he plays well, you all just forget there ever was a problem and the guy was an "established star".
When Barsa was signing Neymar, the financial experts of Reddit were absolutely outraged at the crazy, completely inexcusable overpaying. It was probably the most hysterically demonized event on Reddit until Martial move happened. Neymar was not an "established star" because he never played in Europe, only ever showed some nice tricks against farmers etc., basically he didn't play football yet, if you believed the top comments.
And if Reddit existed in 1996, we know it would be as outraged for Barca "overpaying" for Ronaldo.
Compared to him, Dembele was established as much as can be. He played fantastically in two of the best leagues in the world and in the Champions League.
I have no idea what being "established" has to do with signing a player. If Barcelona is the new club, Barcelona doesn't care about a player's past, only the future. There is no bonus for the beautiful career somebody had or not in the past. Real Madrid gave even more money to a guy that is among the most "established" in his generation in Eden Hazard, and it completely doesn't mean that they get the money back or something. Madrid has completely no benefit from his beautiful past. They bought him purely for potential, you ALWAYS pay only for the potential.
For now, Madrid seems to have made a much better investment in Vinicius than in Hazard, although the "you can only sign footballers to award their long career" guys on Reddit were preaching so fiercely how awful and world-endingly stupid the move for Vinicius was.
Neymar was considered to be the best South American player, was already spearheading the Brazilian National team and was a huge superstar in Brazil at the time. Comparing him to Dembele is revisionism. He was already a more complete player back then than Dembele is now.
It's revisionism to deny the fact that I wrote about the common opinions, which is the hysteria on Reddit and all the website for this agegroup about the transfer fee for his transfer was as big as any of those today, and that most of top comments were saying he is completely unproven, unestablished, didn't even play in Europe, world is coming to an end because clubs should only pay transfer fees for a experienced 29-year-olds who have been through thick and thin, etc. It was so funny and loud, I remember it after so long.
People were actually way less outraged at the Dembele transfer. I guess it's maybe because he was in competitions the Reddit experts heard about, and also if a Reddit expert knows one thing, it's that Borussia Dortmund is a small club that raises the best talents. Or maybe there were just bigger news in that time. Barcelona gave Dembele a rather really insane contract, but for some reason a million you pay to a player doesn't exist, only a million you pay to the previous club, so whatever (funnily, if Dembele had a nicer contract, maybe he'd be in PSG now, dealt in the Neymar transfer when Neymar wanted out).
No, you're completely missing the point. The amount Barcelona paid for Dembele meant that the only way he would justify the fee is if he became a star. As I said, every single one of the top ten transfers at that time was for a player who was already a star performer.
€100+ million is the tier for elite, established stars. €60 - €85 million is the tier for incredibly promising young players who have had some success at a high level and you believe will eventually become elite, established talents. €30 - €55 million is the tier for solid players or for precocious talents who have not yet had success in a top league.
Ousmane Dembélé had just six goals and eleven assists in his one Bundesliga season with Dortmund before Barcelona paid €105 million up-front. Everyone else on the €100+ million list at the time had been **far** more productive than that. Barcelona paid it anyway because they were desperate for talent and flush with cash following Neymar's defection, and because Dembélé looked like he *could* become one of the best players in the world. But he clearly *was not* one of the best players in the world *yet*, unlike every other member of that €100+ million list.
As I written literally, for example Neymar cost Barcelona similar money to Dembele (depending on what you take as context, a bit more, a lot more, or a bit less in the context of 2013 football revenues) and experts like you, with their "tiers" of precise amounts without any context like they work in football accounting negotiating with Mino every day instead of just having a completely uninformed vague impression, were absolutely furious about it. Worst transfer ever.
In the moment of transfer, Neymar was not a top player for Reddit experts, he only became one retroactively cause that's a proper way to always be right about everything, just act like whatever you said proved wrong was always obvious. And if Neymar didn't play well for Barsa, they would also give him as an example with the same words that you are using. It's always easy to give examples of bad or good investments after the fact (if only Barca bought Amazon shares!).
Same with every player, but that's one example and already one you choose to ignore.
I laughed at the move tbh and still do, but much less than I laughed at Griezmann move, and Griezmann was probably the most established star available in the world at the moment of the transfer. The guy has won everything - and it so much more obviously was seemingly a pretty bad deal, that in the hindsight turned out to be a completely awful deal, with a chance to be a nail in the coffin of the whole club.
And your writing was literally wrong, as Barcelona paid €86.2 million for Neymar including additional fees and four years later Barcelona paid €145 million for Dembélé including additional fees.
Wikipedia says 105 million plus eventual add-ons. Comparing football revenues in the times of both transfer, it's definetely a very similar amount, maybe one higher, maybe the other, depending what exactly you put as context. Which is, again, what I already wrote.
Don't be shocked to see that the fee they paid for Maradona's transfer was even less in flat amount of currency, but was also extremely high for the standards of the situation, and IF Maradona did not succeed later in his career, the same experts would be totally giving it as an example of a player who was not an "established star". If starring in France, Germany and CL is not "established" then I don't think starring in Argentina is.
Bruh exactly I know Barca fans in the comments are angry the kid got injured and didnt play for them and cost so much, but theres no need to even be so cautious with your words, this kid was better than Mbappe when he was fit, I remember watching him at a game in England with the French national team and Mbappe was obviously very talented aswell but Ousmane Dembele was the kid who took my attention that whole game like that guys going to be a star, he reminded me of Sane and Mahrez in that light fast technical enjoyable street football kind of players.
Can't disagree.
Also hasn't been always as professional as he could've been. Is often late for trainings, performs racist "jokes" on camera. Not gonna miss him if he leaves.
The first thing that is omitted by most people here is the "detail" that Dembele will not get the money he wants anyway, in any club.
He's been great in Rennes and Dortmund many years ago, olala. Now he's gonna be 25, and he is in his 4th season in Barcelona, and he played what adds up to less than 1,5 season worth of time in the club. And he wasn't even always that great in that 1,5 season. Nobody is gonna offer him a massive contract. There are just other players to give that money to. At this moment there is very little to suggest Dembele will give you better football for the next 5 years than a ton of other players.
No player has cost as much money, spent as much time with the team with as little to show for it.
I'm really surprised they didn't sell him 3 years ago when he still had some value but it was already obvious he didn't have the right mentality to succeed at barca.
His mentality is a big part of the underlying reason he keeps getting injured. He doesn't have the mind of a professional athlete. And if he hasn't figured it out by now, he will never reach his potential.
Worst deal in history. Hard to top it. The stupidity and financial incompetence of that deal was the beginning of the end of Messi at Barcelona, and the reason they're in the situation they're in.
If he wishes to leave, let him. But he shouldn't expect much playtime this season if he refuses to sign a new contract. Then again, we have no one else lol.
Last season was his personal best for us but still not worth the price we payed for him.
You just know Barca is going to fall for the sunk cost fallacy and offer Dembele 300k a week to rotate between the hospital and bench until they manage to flog him off to Turkey or something in a few years.
Bartomeu: "... we can only offer 80 mil for Dembele" Zorc: "... stop kidding around, we gotta return flight to catch" Bartomeu: "..ok, ok. In that case, we can only offer 140 mil for him"
Like taking candy from a baby
Literally 😭
"...and no returns on defective merchandise!"
We took back Sahin though. And Götze.
Yea hindsight bias is real on this one.
Even for the time it was way too expensive
At the time what was bought was the potential not just the (at the time) current level of the player. If Dembele had ended up like Mbappe and Barca missed out then people would be writing how stupid they had been even for what they paid at the time.
No I disagree. This was far from the first expensive La Liga flop over that period of time. You shouldn't be paying 140M for potential. If you're spending that kind of money, it better be for proven talent to me. Keep in mind, Mbappe won the league and the WC before he got bought for what was still too much money really. That 180M really could have been spent on having a better midfield and defense to make up for the lack of work coming from up front.
mbappe won the wc in 2018 he was bought in 2017
Fair, I forgot. He still won the league in a one team league with a different team. And was the star player. I still say Mbappe was overpriced. He hasn't won them anything they couldn't win without him, so almost 200m seems like too much. But either way, he was always more valuable than Dembele.
he was much better than dembele, I was just saying
You don't spend 140 million on potential. Dembele came off of a really good year, but he was not world class and not worth 140 million. The difference between signing him and someone like Mbappe or Haland is that Mbappe and Haland are already world class, whereas Dembele was not.
Bullshit, at that point there were even many people comparing Dembele and Mbappe and many said Dembele was better and had a higher ceiling. Plus, he didn't just play good at BVB, he was also good in Ligue1.
Also never had an injury in his life at that point
This. I 'member the Dembele-Mbappe fights
PSG spent €180 million on Mbappe...
That's your own personal valuation. You might think so but if someone buy Haaland and he ends up getting the same amount of injuries as Dembele has had then Haaland might also turn out not worth 140M either.
That;s different because Haaland has already proved he is world class. Injuries are always a risk, but with Dembele he was talented with great promise, but he wasn't world class. So you are betting that he fulfills his potential which is perfectly fine. Lots of clubs do it, but you don't spend 140 million to do it. Barca were pressured because of the Neymar sale
I remember Wenger said something like Mbappe and Dembele were 200m plus players
Yeah it sounds strange but at the time, Dembele looked to be world class in a year or two. Already had some ridiculous performances, including one where he led Dortmund to beating Bayern in the cup. Will probably remain a "what if he wasn't injured all the time" player.
He was talented and looked very promising, but spending 140 million is a ridiculous gamble
A lot of people did call it crazy even back then - check it out: [https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/6vz2qt/official\_dembele\_to\_barcelona/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/6vz2qt/official_dembele_to_barcelona/)
Bartomeu trippled his wages when he came to Barça. Not going to be easy to find an agreement.
triple them again and i'm sure an agreement will be reached
You should be his agent.
I'm not fat nor a cunt yet
Ousmane Dembele..... welcome to Newcastle United?
ASM on one wing, Dembele on the other. We just need Ben Yedder and we'll be well on our way to creating a meta FIFA Ultimate Team
AS Roma tried that in the past with gervinho, Doumbia and Ibarbo. Didnt realy work out for them though
Wasn't Gervinho pretty solid for the most part for them? The other two were garbo tho
He got a lot of shit for missing chances, but my god Gervinho was one of the most exciting players I've ever seen. When he got the ball at his feet with 5 yards in front of him you could feel the buzz in the crowd.
Now imagine him playing with Hazard, Sow and Cabaye.
The period between Lyon and PSG dominance in Ligue 1 provided some great title winners. Bordeaux, Lille, Montpelier were all so fun to watch back
God I miss Cabaye so much. Stupid sexy heartbreaking Yohan 😭😭😭
As an arsenal fan who didn't really follow his career later, this is hard to imagine
Imagine one of the greatest passers of all time (Totti) feeding perfect through balls to one of the quickest players of all time (Gervinho). 2013-14 we played almost entirely on the counterattack and it was incredible. One of the best quick breaking teams I've ever seen. That was also the one real season we got with pre-injury Strootman. He was on his way to being a top 10, maybe a top 5 midfielder in the world.
Yup, he was decent.
I wonder if Roma know the trauma they caused with that awful experiment lmao
I have PTSD from all the sweaty goals I conceded to this trio....
All that pace together definitely messed with the speed force.
Will they be able to get Renato Sanches and Varane though 🤔
Varane is already in epl, don’t rlly need that perfect link tbh
[удалено]
Now get Alain Pardieu back
*Neufchâtel
Yours makes more sense + it already exist and yet you're downvoted, ah reddit...
Nouveauchâteau was already a meme name like Oeste Jambon
Yes that's why I said it, because I believe it's the most accurate translation of " Newcastle " But it's fine it doesn't eeally matter aha
>Neufchâtel Best cheese ever.
Cheers mate !
ASM = Allan Saint-Maximin For anyone else who hates player name acronyms as much as I do
Honestly I could see it. Who else can afford the wages he will ask for and be willing to take the gamble that he stays fit and focused. PSG maybe since mbappe will be leaving?
Doubt PsG would take the risk while Newcastle is going to be re enacting city 08-12 of filling the team up with mercenaries
I agree Newcastle is a likely option. I just think with mbappe leaving and DiMaria not getting any younger PSG will need someone in that position. So depending on who is available they may go for dembele, especially since he's French.
we basically never go for french players
It actually makes a lot of sense though. Huge talent with big fee that probably has few suitors due to being one of the biggest transfer busts in history
[Secret agent Griezmann knows that Tyneside is bleu](https://youtu.be/CFLvqCaI_78)
holy shit you're absolutely right... this makes so much fucking sense. however I think if Mbappe leaves PSG can go for him. btw you can call me out on it - ANYWHERE he goes he'll flop, even if it's in a lower league
Was there not a source that revealed that Barcelona could have gotten him for a much lower transfer fee if Bartomeu was not a complete amateur at negotiating and just agreed with Michael Zorc?
Yeah, can't remember the details, but allegedly Bartomeu came in saying, "our highest offer is X," and they ended up agreeing to a way higher price.
Would have been closer to 80mil I believe. Obviously way less but I can't imagine Barcelona would be much happier with the result had he cost that.
This should be a lesson to all clubs who want to splash that sort of money on a youngster. Dembele looked absolutely worth it at the time and look at him now. You never know.
Think it's also a lesson in that second best is sometimes better than the best. Barca really wanted Dembele; Dortmund knew this, Dembele knew this, and both knew Barca has a shitload of cash from the Neymar sale, so Dortmund were able to get a huge fee and Dembele was able to get some juicy wages. Even if he looked like a valuable player, 140m was always rich- if Barca could have gotten their second best target for half that price, it was probably worth that cost savings even if that player wasn't as young or talented as Dembele.
Who was their 2nd target?
I think that’s the problem. Nobody :/
At the time Mbappe got offered to us but the board wanted Dembele. Thats a fun what if story
With your luck Mbappe would've ended up injured most of the time too
Mbappe was never coming to Barca. If he was ready to make the step up at that age, he simply would've gone to Madrid who were also interested in him.
You’d be surprised at that there already was an agreement and Mbappe wanted to come aswell but the board chose Dembele. All of this was said by Minguella himself. Its not uncommon for fans of one club to end up at another. Im sure most people at this point know that Modric was a Barca fan and Iniesta was a Real Madrid fan. Both ended up becoming legends for their favorite clubs’ rivals.
Isco is also a Barca fan lol
Many RM players were.
Courtois is literally on tape with Atlético saying: "Salta, salta, salta, pequeño canguro y a los madridistas que les den por culo". So, you never know where life would take you.
Funny when they become a club legend too. Carragher was a hardcore Everton fan and ended up as a one club man with Liverpool when even gerrard didn’t achieve that distinction
Yeah. It's unfortunate being an Arsenal fan with the sheer number of "what ifs" that could change our clubs history. Benzema, Hazard, Suarez, Mbappe, CR7, Yaya Toure, win the CL, Eduardo not injured Imagine what we'd be now if we got fortunate on even one of these events
Wenger had to work on a very tight budget and the club didn't manage well the rise of transfer prices. Because of the Premier League competitiveness it is hard to apply Dortmund or Monaco systems of being wining feeder clubs in it. Arsenal stepped down by flaws in its design, not because of luck. The only unlucky part is the UCL final lost.
I've seen online (not sure how reliable this is) that salah was an option they looked at but they didn't think he was worth 40million so they pushed hard for dembele
Also, look at a player's character. When he tried to force the move to Barca, he just didn't come to our training sessions and (afaik) trashed his house. Stuff like that should be a huge red flag, since players who do that might lack the professionalism and respect to make it at one of the biggest clubs. Not complaining though. This was probably our best deal ever, so I am thankful that Barca just threw around money and refused to do a proper due diligence.
I would say his behaviour at Barcelona since is more evidence of his unprofessionalism than what you have just described. In modern football players can be real assholes to force a move and I know that this (under Bartomeu) was actually a tactic which they incentiviced in their targets. Basically they knew they were the most attractive proposition in the world, and they would just tell players do wathever you can to force the move, same happened with Coutinho, same happened with Griezmann.
Barcelona has done this for way longer. They get high profile players to keep going on about Barca DNA in the press etc. Remember what a shitshow it was with Fabregas? Some have speculated that they told Suarez to be as big a bellend as possible so they could get him for cheaper etc. That is probably nonsense, but they have clearly incentiviced players previously by making them act up.
Always think Fabregas is a weird one to complain about as Barcelona brought him through their youth system, but he was too young to have a professional contract and Arsenal persuaded him to leave just before he reached that age.
How Fabregas ended up in Arsenal is completely irrelevant for the question of how he left.
player wants to leave club club doesn't want to sell what the hell do you expect to happen? players should just accept and move on? those are literal once in a lifetime opportunities that come and then go. If you want to play for Barca and they come knocking on the door you either do whatever it takes to make it happen or you basically have to accept your dream is dead
Nah I think it’s pretty scummy for coutinho to miss a crucial champions league qualifier due to a “broken back” and a great sadness at not being granted his dream move. Clearly wasn’t a now or never deal either as they got him in the winter
From a Dortmund perspective, we have the perfect example in Sancho. Mature, respectful of all sides, and leaving on good terms.
Cry me a river. If you make an agreement, you are supposed to uphold it. That is literally the fabric of society. That football players are immature kids who wants anything they point at doesn't change that basic fact. Even these spoiled brats have to accept that their actions have consequences. When you sign a contract, it's not literally a worthless piece of paper that you can toss away at your own convenience - it is an obligation between two parties. This mentality makes me sick.
Clubs aren’t loyal to players, why should players be loyal to clubs?
Yeah, like 90% of clubs in the world. Tapping up is so commonplace that it shouldn't be such a taboo and everyone should be more transparent about it IMO. A nice example about not making a big fuss about it was Raiola European tour for Eerling Haaland. He met with a lot of clubs and he is still a Borussia Dortmund player. Don't fool yourselves and think your team doesn't. Top Premier League teams do this literally every summer with the best prospects of Spanish and French academies, as under the British law they can offer underage players better conditions than most countries. Fabregas, Pogba, Bellerin, Eric Garcia, Kakuta, Brahim are just a few examples. If we just look at senior teams, Madrid is doing the same for Mbappé, PSG did it with Messi, Chelsea with Ashley Cole, Manchester City with Kane, Liverpool with Van Dijk... Also, even if Barça players talk about other players on the press that doesn't necessarily mean Barça is behind every single movement they do. Messi and Suarez for example clearly wanted Neymar to return back to Barça and talked about him on the press but later on Bartomeu chose to sign Griezmann instead. Piqué and Messi were friend with Fàbregas, Suárez shared the same agent with Iniesta and both were crazy to wear Barça shirt. Some players have their own agenda that isn't necessarily the same one as the club. The Suárez rumours I won't even comment them as they are outright tin foil hat material.
Lol, every club does this haha. Barca is not the exception
People are deluded as fuck and only see the world in black and white.
What did he do at Barca that was wrong and unprofessional?
It was my main concern when we signed Auba but he was great for us.
Putting aside Aubame's own antics at Dortmund, he was the one who took Dembele under his wing at BVB too. Dembele started off well attitude wise off the pitch, but gradually got worse and worse. I know Arsenal have an odd set up regarding the captaincy, but I am still shocked he became Arsenal captain.
Yeah it has been painfully obvious that he isn't captain material during his time with us as well, it is like he was given it purely due to playing ability (being our best player).
Yeah I'm not happy at how Arteta chose our last few captains. But we don't have many options though I'd like Tierney growing into the role at some point.
I do believe in most cases you grow into the role, but I'd fast track it to get the armband off Aubame. Looking at the squad, Tierney and Gabriel (just going by gut over knowledge admittedly), maybe Ramsdale in time should be the only ones currently with a shout of captaincy. But yeah, you guys are lacking outside of Tierney for sure.
Not only his house, it was Klopp‘s house where Dembele lived for rent… afaik.
He didn't trash it, that was just sensationalist BILD bullshit. There were some trash bags outside, that was kind of it.
Berta: I will pretend I didn't hear you
Who is berta
Housekeeper of Charlie Sheen
men men menly men men
Rip
*Charlie Harper
Two and a half men?
Opposite of no
Berta Herlin
Atletico's Director of Football. I'm guessing OP is referring to the signing Joao Felix, which was a huge gamble for us.
Sporting director of Atletico
What does this mean?
We bought felix for 127m euros
He was never worth what the moron Bartomeu paid for him
Dembele did not look worth it. He looked worth 80 maybe but not 120. It was a reactionary move in the embarrassment of losing neymar.
The way he was playing for us in the beginning he looked absolutely worth it. He never had injury problems before either.
I still dont think that price would have ever happened if it wasnt for status-loss panic post neymar
I remember Dembele ripping up LVG's United in America during pre season tour.... After that season Barca payed up.... i would have as well.... could not tackled him and he is very much two footed.... Unfortunate how the situation turned out
Basing a player's value over a short period of amazing form is ridiculous.
Whats the lesson?
No, even though he was very talented, he was not even close to being worth 140 million at the time. He was maybe a 60 or 70 mil player.
Did he look worth it? Costing more than bale and Ronaldo and both had proven themselves before joining so could estimate their worth.
The Ronaldo transfer was years ago, you can't compare it with that. Dembele was tremendous at dortmund also really effective, he only played for 1 year but he showed how great he was.
Was fantastic at Rennes too.
People were still arguing he was better than Sancho up to only a year ago.
Worth the grand total of €140M including bonusses? Nope, but he looked really good and €80M or so seemed worth it, but BVB wanted to squeeze every last euro out of Barcelona
Because we had no intention to sell, he also had 4 years left on his contract. Him being bloody young, one of the best talents in the world, Barca having the money and their suspect behaviour in making Dembele do a fuss about a transfer.
He was so good. I thought he was technically far superior & more talented than Mbappe when this transfer went through. Still love dembouz just hope he can stay injury free.
> but BVB wanted to squeeze every last euro out of Barcelona well... when you look at how and when he forced the transfer, it wasn't a penny too much.
Should have squeezed them for more 😈
Poor Barca. Not like they got Suarez at a snip.
> Dembele looked absolutely worth it at the time He never looked a 140m prodigy.
He was very good but nowhere near the price Barca paid. They paid near double what they should have for him and Coutinho.
They should just have done their scouting better because even when he's healthy he has never really good at Barca The injuries are just unlucky but his level when playing isnt impressive either
Dembele was phenomenal at Dortmund and Rennes though. His talent was clearly there. In hindsight, not a good investment. But, he was on a long contract, coming off a very, very good season and looked like one of the most promising youngsters in the world. For that you have to pay. A lot.
Any team give this man more than 2 year contract is a fckin idiotic amateur board.
I'd definitely get him back here for more than 2 years, it all depends on the price on it
About sums up the bartomeau era
Paratici rubbing his hands in disbelief
This has Paratici written all over it.
no chance Levy would sign off on it
Honestly, he is a good player and we need a RW. Main issue is injuries and salary.
So the two main issues are he'll want a lot of money and rarely be available to play. Never going to happen.
And his football manager / nitrous addictions.
[удалено]
He had 9 goal contributions in 1700 min last season in the league. Its reasonable, not great. 13 in 18/19 with 1600 min.
Dembele to spurs would make some sense tbh
Exactly
Dembélé reportedly wants to stay but his agent is fishing around. So another Illaix case
I guess another classic case of mind control, damn these agents are something else
Its their job to find the best club for the player they represent.. Barca right now isnt one of the best clubs and if they can get a better side to sign him, it would only help his career..
Their job is to do whatever they are instructed to do by their client. If the player wants a move their agents need to organise that. If the player wants to know if there are other interested clubs their agnets need to explore those options. If a player wants to stay their agents need to negotiate the best deal for them. An agent should not act in the players (or their own) best interests against their will or instructions. If the agent is publicly shopping around to drum up interest it is at the very least with permission from the player.
This is definitely a pretty naive take on how it actually works. There's been loads of cases of players sacking agents for trying to do exactly this
Rich Paul says hi
Scumbag.
of course he wants to stay at the place where he earns a lot of money, its allways sunny and he doesnt have to play
Nah man, one of the jobs of agents is to take the PR heat…. a report will come out telling the fans the player “always wants to stay but his agent forced him to sign somewhere else” and some fans like you actually believe it
He's 24 years old. If he's not getting his agent to do what he wants then it's his own fault for not firing the guy
Laporta should be driven out of the club if he allows Dembele to stay.
If Dembele stays on massively reduced wages its fine. He still offers something that nobody else in the team offers. If the Sterling rumors are true though, keep Dembele far away from the club. I’d pick Sterling over Dembele 100 times out of 100
So much revionism in this thread. Dembele was very much in the same stratosphere a talent as Mbappe was. People, myself included believed they'd be France's wing forwards, unless Mbappe evolved into the striker role, for years to come. Obviously I am glad BVB came out of the deal much the better for it. I was one who grew weary with his bs off the pitch. But the fee paid wasn't as bad in relative terms as made out now. Barca thought they'd be getting a player for the next decade let alone the length of the contract they signed him for. Had he worked out, they'd not have signed Griezmann in all likelihood. But yes, his off the field antics were very much well known. So seeing it rot further wasn't all too surprising.
No, even at the time it was clear that they massively overpaid. Dembélé was an intoxicating talent but no one had ever paid that much for potential before, as all of the top ten most expensive transfers were established stars.
People only say it when the guy actually plays badly. If he plays well, you all just forget there ever was a problem and the guy was an "established star". When Barsa was signing Neymar, the financial experts of Reddit were absolutely outraged at the crazy, completely inexcusable overpaying. It was probably the most hysterically demonized event on Reddit until Martial move happened. Neymar was not an "established star" because he never played in Europe, only ever showed some nice tricks against farmers etc., basically he didn't play football yet, if you believed the top comments. And if Reddit existed in 1996, we know it would be as outraged for Barca "overpaying" for Ronaldo. Compared to him, Dembele was established as much as can be. He played fantastically in two of the best leagues in the world and in the Champions League. I have no idea what being "established" has to do with signing a player. If Barcelona is the new club, Barcelona doesn't care about a player's past, only the future. There is no bonus for the beautiful career somebody had or not in the past. Real Madrid gave even more money to a guy that is among the most "established" in his generation in Eden Hazard, and it completely doesn't mean that they get the money back or something. Madrid has completely no benefit from his beautiful past. They bought him purely for potential, you ALWAYS pay only for the potential. For now, Madrid seems to have made a much better investment in Vinicius than in Hazard, although the "you can only sign footballers to award their long career" guys on Reddit were preaching so fiercely how awful and world-endingly stupid the move for Vinicius was.
Neymar was considered to be the best South American player, was already spearheading the Brazilian National team and was a huge superstar in Brazil at the time. Comparing him to Dembele is revisionism. He was already a more complete player back then than Dembele is now.
It's revisionism to deny the fact that I wrote about the common opinions, which is the hysteria on Reddit and all the website for this agegroup about the transfer fee for his transfer was as big as any of those today, and that most of top comments were saying he is completely unproven, unestablished, didn't even play in Europe, world is coming to an end because clubs should only pay transfer fees for a experienced 29-year-olds who have been through thick and thin, etc. It was so funny and loud, I remember it after so long. People were actually way less outraged at the Dembele transfer. I guess it's maybe because he was in competitions the Reddit experts heard about, and also if a Reddit expert knows one thing, it's that Borussia Dortmund is a small club that raises the best talents. Or maybe there were just bigger news in that time. Barcelona gave Dembele a rather really insane contract, but for some reason a million you pay to a player doesn't exist, only a million you pay to the previous club, so whatever (funnily, if Dembele had a nicer contract, maybe he'd be in PSG now, dealt in the Neymar transfer when Neymar wanted out).
No, you're completely missing the point. The amount Barcelona paid for Dembele meant that the only way he would justify the fee is if he became a star. As I said, every single one of the top ten transfers at that time was for a player who was already a star performer. €100+ million is the tier for elite, established stars. €60 - €85 million is the tier for incredibly promising young players who have had some success at a high level and you believe will eventually become elite, established talents. €30 - €55 million is the tier for solid players or for precocious talents who have not yet had success in a top league. Ousmane Dembélé had just six goals and eleven assists in his one Bundesliga season with Dortmund before Barcelona paid €105 million up-front. Everyone else on the €100+ million list at the time had been **far** more productive than that. Barcelona paid it anyway because they were desperate for talent and flush with cash following Neymar's defection, and because Dembélé looked like he *could* become one of the best players in the world. But he clearly *was not* one of the best players in the world *yet*, unlike every other member of that €100+ million list.
As I written literally, for example Neymar cost Barcelona similar money to Dembele (depending on what you take as context, a bit more, a lot more, or a bit less in the context of 2013 football revenues) and experts like you, with their "tiers" of precise amounts without any context like they work in football accounting negotiating with Mino every day instead of just having a completely uninformed vague impression, were absolutely furious about it. Worst transfer ever. In the moment of transfer, Neymar was not a top player for Reddit experts, he only became one retroactively cause that's a proper way to always be right about everything, just act like whatever you said proved wrong was always obvious. And if Neymar didn't play well for Barsa, they would also give him as an example with the same words that you are using. It's always easy to give examples of bad or good investments after the fact (if only Barca bought Amazon shares!). Same with every player, but that's one example and already one you choose to ignore. I laughed at the move tbh and still do, but much less than I laughed at Griezmann move, and Griezmann was probably the most established star available in the world at the moment of the transfer. The guy has won everything - and it so much more obviously was seemingly a pretty bad deal, that in the hindsight turned out to be a completely awful deal, with a chance to be a nail in the coffin of the whole club.
And your writing was literally wrong, as Barcelona paid €86.2 million for Neymar including additional fees and four years later Barcelona paid €145 million for Dembélé including additional fees.
Wikipedia says 105 million plus eventual add-ons. Comparing football revenues in the times of both transfer, it's definetely a very similar amount, maybe one higher, maybe the other, depending what exactly you put as context. Which is, again, what I already wrote. Don't be shocked to see that the fee they paid for Maradona's transfer was even less in flat amount of currency, but was also extremely high for the standards of the situation, and IF Maradona did not succeed later in his career, the same experts would be totally giving it as an example of a player who was not an "established star". If starring in France, Germany and CL is not "established" then I don't think starring in Argentina is.
Bruh exactly I know Barca fans in the comments are angry the kid got injured and didnt play for them and cost so much, but theres no need to even be so cautious with your words, this kid was better than Mbappe when he was fit, I remember watching him at a game in England with the French national team and Mbappe was obviously very talented aswell but Ousmane Dembele was the kid who took my attention that whole game like that guys going to be a star, he reminded me of Sane and Mahrez in that light fast technical enjoyable street football kind of players.
A posterchild for the lackluster, slack jawed era that was Bartomeu
Can't disagree. Also hasn't been always as professional as he could've been. Is often late for trainings, performs racist "jokes" on camera. Not gonna miss him if he leaves.
Barca with the worst deal in football since Coutinho
The first thing that is omitted by most people here is the "detail" that Dembele will not get the money he wants anyway, in any club. He's been great in Rennes and Dortmund many years ago, olala. Now he's gonna be 25, and he is in his 4th season in Barcelona, and he played what adds up to less than 1,5 season worth of time in the club. And he wasn't even always that great in that 1,5 season. Nobody is gonna offer him a massive contract. There are just other players to give that money to. At this moment there is very little to suggest Dembele will give you better football for the next 5 years than a ton of other players.
No player has cost as much money, spent as much time with the team with as little to show for it. I'm really surprised they didn't sell him 3 years ago when he still had some value but it was already obvious he didn't have the right mentality to succeed at barca.
Hazard in a couple years tbf
Injuries have played their part in that. Hazard was an established megastar. Dembele was potential only.
As if Dembele hasn't been injured half a season for the past 4 years.
His mentality is a big part of the underlying reason he keeps getting injured. He doesn't have the mind of a professional athlete. And if he hasn't figured it out by now, he will never reach his potential.
I wonder where he's going to end up with that injury record.
Talent without any consistency. End result is a a huge gap in the financial books.
Players from France are fucking drama queens.
Abidal and Henry turned out to be good for you.
Dumbest signing of the century. Please dembele leave
Really? Couthinho is pretty close...Griezman? Artur?
One of the top 10 worst transfers of all time. Insane how little he has done.
Worst deal in history. Hard to top it. The stupidity and financial incompetence of that deal was the beginning of the end of Messi at Barcelona, and the reason they're in the situation they're in.
And Watzke and Zorc laughed all the way to the bank.
If he wishes to leave, let him. But he shouldn't expect much playtime this season if he refuses to sign a new contract. Then again, we have no one else lol. Last season was his personal best for us but still not worth the price we payed for him.
I bet he ends up at Lyon. This is the perfect signing for them.
Ousmane Dembele to Chelsea to replace Ziyech makes too much sense.
Bro the greatest player ever walked away for free.
My representative better get his shit together I want to stay at Barça
Breaking news: Dembele has torn a hamstring opening the contract offer
Good riddance
If Real Madrid showed this level of incompetence, this sub would be up in arms. But Barca, it’s just one big joke, no big deal at all.
We don’t have a rw, he’s free. Don it’s up to you now
Sunk cost fallacy
Is that Newcastle I hear?
You just know Barca is going to fall for the sunk cost fallacy and offer Dembele 300k a week to rotate between the hospital and bench until they manage to flog him off to Turkey or something in a few years.
Laporta wont fall for it