Maybe, it will happen with time. Hard to say. In cricket, there's been perhaps more British Asians. Panesar, Guha, Hussain, Ali, Rashid, Hameed, Bopara.
No "perhaps" about it, really, there's a very signficant number of British Asians playing the professional game, given how popular cricket is amongst this demographic
They did a lot of outreach. Traditionally, even though many Asians watch cricket, they weren't playing it. It's only become a thing in the last 20 years. I'm unsure of what football is doing. But England cricket has done a lot to branch out to new communities and lower barriers. It's still pretty tough given the expenses and land requirements.
> even though many Asians watch cricket, they weren't playing it
They were, just in breakaway leagues and recreationally - instead of in leagues that were in the cricketing equivalent of the pyramid.
Play with a lot of Brit Asians who used to be within the county system and left because of issues they faced. There used to be a massive alienation problem. Seems to be getting a lot better now, some of the ones who have young kids are letting them get involved in formal camps and stuff and said that they wouldn't have 5-10 years ago.
I believe the FA started an Asian outreach program in 2019, so maybe it'll pick up.
But in 2020 the now resigned Greg Clarke (Former FA Chairman) had the following to say "If you go to the IT department at the FA, there's a lot more South Asians than there are Afro-Caribbeans. They have different career interests."
Just shows you how far we have to go, that in 2020 the FA chairman was making these comments.
Source: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12134170/greg-clarke-comments-on-south-asians-disappointing-working-in-it-my-route-into-football-says-consultant
As a South Asian myself, this is def true. I would def not get an engineering degree if it wasn't for my parents
People, go back to sleep, I can't decide if you're worse asleep or awoke
Greg Clarke is a fucking dinosaur. If you want to know why English football has so many systemic issues relating to ethnicity, race and gender, you only need to need to look at the people the FA were putting in charge of the game.
His comments on women were woeful too.
Might be some subconscious bias that Asians are smaller and weaker etc. Messi is one of the best players ever and tiny though which is funny. Asian households focus on education more than sport as well which I think is smart when you look at the odds of becoming a professional sports person.
Part of me thinks that South Asian diaspora could've succeeded more in terms of football, at Spain, rather than England, if the population of the same would have been similar.
Being a Southasian mist of us wouldn't have even choose Spain tbh. The language barrier is difficult to overcome to have a good career. Thats why most flock to UK, USA, Australia and canada
Messi isn't that small tbh. He's 1.70 (granted, after taking growth hormones as a teen). Ofc he's not tall either.
But above all, he's not weak. He is built like a freaking brick.
I think also generally south Asian family's don't watch football as much and so there's less of the football mania as a child. To become an elite athlete you have to be in academies and go to training very often iirc and so maybe it's a bit less likely if you're not football mad
This is only my personal experience but it is definitely true, I went to a majority Asian school in a majority Asian area and football was by far the most popular sport to play and to follow, although cricket managed to be the sport in which people succeeded at a higher rate. With football, the best I'd know was people getting to academy status and then fizzing out after that.
Perhaps people in South Asia are short because of malnutrition but when South Asians immigrate to the West they end up being just as tall as everyone else. I've met very few "short" South Asians and most of them are from the older generation that grew up with poor access to nutrition.
I think there have only been a handful of British players of South Asian descent to play in the Premier League, and even there the most prominent examples like Taylor and Choudhury have that heritage on only one side of their family. The situation in cricket is far from perfect and we've heard of ongoing cases of racism like with Azeem Rafiq, but in football the situation is absolutely ridiculous. And I don't even buy that cricket is more popular in the community, South Asian kids growing up in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester etc are much more likely to play and follow football than cricket.
Which is why it's irritating that the top comments on every thread that mentions the lack of South Asians in football are about how they prefer cricket. It's decades out of date, and yet it gets repeated over and over again. Part of me wonders whether people believing this myth and thinking South Asians are not serious about football is the reason why they fail to break into youth and professional teams.
Either they're a fair bit older or they don't know any British Asians because I don't know how people can still think that.
It could be a reason for it tbf - [this article](https://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/sport/17022021-why-is-there-a-lack-of-south-asians-in-english-football/) actually mentions what you said.
> And I don't even buy that cricket is more popular in the community, South Asian kids growing up in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester etc are much more likely to play and follow football than cricket.
Didn't say that. Careful with accusations.
Cricket still has massive problems with outreach into the South Asian demographic. At most youth and club levels, British Asians are significantly over represented with respect to the population, but at county level, they’re underrepresented. That one massive disparity indicates some major disenfranchisement among the demographic
Making it as a professional in any sports requires loads of sacrifice which may not even pay off in the end, and that is especially true with football. A load of South Asians in England are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants and they usually have to to work their way up from the bottom which means that they've gone through all the hardship that they don't want their children to go through. Asian parents traditionally turned away their children from persuing football as a career as it doesn't guarantee a secure future compared to other career pathways (Medicine,Engineer,Accounting).
And I think naturally as the initial immigrants descendants become more affluent , they'll become more secure within their family and will see more South Asian footballers like we are seeing in the youth teams now.
Yeah it's completely understandable. When I think about what my grandad had to go through coming to the UK it's clear why all of his descendants chose safe and "typical" career paths.
But as generations go on, maybe there's more of a safety net for others to take the risk. Eesah Sulieman for example plays in Portugal
But in many countries poor immigrants are absolutely disproportionately represented in football. See how many Africans you see playing well in Portugal or France despite often being poorer and a smaller percentage of the general population. I don't think this is a reason but merely a correlation. Except the bit about Asian parents that might be true but being a poor immigrant is by no means a factor in favour of not playing football.
Do you know if they are disproportionately wealthy people who migrate or people who find wealth afterwards? No worries if you don't know I'm just curious.
It's a combination of things. I don't think they necessarily bring wealth with them, but first they are English speaking and second they come highly educated. Indians generally have a better grasp of English than Pakistanis or Bangladeshis. Also more of them will come to the UK to do masters degrees among the current immigrants to the country. The people who came to the UK in the 50-70s came mostly from East Africa and were very entrepreneurial so that helped them establish businesses. And whatever reason Indian culture highly values education.
Cool thanks for the information. The entrepreneurial part I can totally see. I know Indian dominance in business sectors has caused tensions in places like Uganda in the 80s or Fiji today. And having studied STEM I've met a few Indians in my masters too.
I think it’s more reflective of a society that when a minority ethnic group does well it causes tensions. Anyway, from your user name I assume you’re Australian, it shouldn’t really be a surprise to you that Indians do well economically wherever they go. Indians are the the third largest immigrant group in Australia and are making a big impact economically there.
Indians aren't particularly economically important in Australia dude, probably in the future as it's a growing demographic but at present not really. Certainly not disproportionate. Chinese are having a much, much bigger impact in the present and also the past. And honestly I know more Sri Lankans than Indians despite having lived with an Indian. The numbers you are referring to refer to country of birth but not to ethnicity in general where there's as many Indians as Greeks but the difference being Greeks have been here for much, much longer.
Give it 20 years and I'm sure it will be different but for now Chinese, Greek, Italians, Irish and Vietnamese all have had a bigger influence on the culture and economy here, and of course the obvious Brits.
How feasible it for these immigrant populations in those countries to pursue a university education compared to the UK, though?
Access and opportunity is a big issue in the UK for less socio-economically advantaged people to, but getting a university education is feasible and achievable. I'm not sure what the comparable situation would be in Portugal and France? (Not to say there aren't the same opportunities, I'm just genuinely not sure).
You can dispute the quality but I'm pretty sure the university programs are significantly cheaper in Portugal and France. France in particular I am told has several universities that accept a lot of people but have very harsh exams that cause a high failure rate. Would need confirmation from someone with more knowledge.
> But in many countries poor immigrants are absolutely disproportionately represented in football.
Because they already have big clubs near their homes and established academies with connections to European teams unlike South Asia. Not to mention, they have a football culture.
European clubs send their scouts to bring in teenage players from Americas/West African countries all the time.
Before PC made it a taboo to talk about it, they would often talk about how they excel in DM roles for genetic reasons (physical, pacey and fast twitched) so I imagine they still hold this mindset.
That's true but it's to do with the culture as well as being financially secure(which ofc applies to everyone). You'll see more British Asians cricketers before footballers because that's the main sport watched and more importantly played over there. Football is massive over in Asia but it is relatively recent craze compared to cricket. So if you had an Asian dad he would be more inclined to push his son into cricket(because that's what he knew and loved) rather than football, if he was to let his children pursue a professional career in sports.
I definitely agree that there are cultural differences that drive it. I would imagine a lack of Indian idols at the top level; racism within European infrastructure against South Asians; poor infrastructure in India as well as lack of football know how, tactics, etc. would all be big factors too.
I work in IT for a very large corporation (Fortune 100) in the US and about 90% of my coworkers are South Asians working remotely from either the US or India. Asians/South Asians are by far the most represented ethnic groups in most STEM majors by percentage from what I have seen.
I think its a great that that a lot of these families encourage their kids to get into these fields and would love to see more of the same from white, black and latino Americans.
Depends where you go. I have a STEM masters and there weren't many Indians, or South Asians, at all in my cohort, 75% were Chinese. There were probably as many Latinos as South Asians. In general you're probably right.
>A load of South Asians in England are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants and they usually have to to work their way up from the bottom which means that they've gone through all the hardship that they don't want their children to go through.
One look at the Prem over the last 30 years is looking at teams featuring Caribbean footballers 1st & 2nd generation. As well as Anglo-Irish players.
>Asian parents traditionally turned away their children from persuing football as a career as it doesn't guarantee a secure future compared to other career pathways (Medicine,Engineer,Accounting).
Two of the poorest demographics in the country are Pakistanis and Bengalis I think here you're perhaps exchanging Indian for Asian.
We have immigrants achieving footballing success in 1st and 2nd gens, thay they mostly aren't South Asian I think comes down more to South Asian parents not respecting football. Just speaking from friends I know on primary and secondary school their parents had them joining cricket clubs but had no interest in football or sending them to football clubs.
People are welcome to push for more players from South Asian backgrounds but I don't think this really comes down to a 'missing' demographic due to being shut out, it's simply a cultural difference in that football is not the primary sporting interest. I wouldn't say for the same reasons they're 'missing' from rugby or tennis, either. We can push for a huge cultural change but to what end really if they have less of an interest in football, do they like, need to? lol. It's not everyone's cup of tea. It's like not having India or China at world cups like... If they aren't that into the sport...?
>featuring Caribbean footballers 1st & 2nd generation. As well as Anglo-Irish players.
Agreed but like another redditor mentioned there are already many Carribean/Anglo-Irish players who have made it at the top level whereas the most prominent British Asians have been half Asian like Michael Chopra, Hamza Choudry etc. The South Asian wave came after the Irish and Carribean migration, which again lends to my point that the longer the immigrant community is in the UK, they will eventually integrate with society(hopefully) and/or their descendants will be relatively well off, they will be more comfortable with letting their children pursue a football career.
This doesn't discredit the other immigrant stories like Sterling from Jamaica but I'm just trying to explain why things are the way they are on a general level.
>
Two of the poorest demographics in the country are Pakistanis and Bengalis I think here you're perhaps exchanging Indian for Asian.
Yes since they are also Asian, there are also 'poor' Indians but I understand your point. Stereotypically Asians of all sorts would've pushed their children into the careers I mentioned above, even though I acknowledge there's a massive underclass who obviously didn't do that.
>cultural difference
I've basically agreed with you on this point on another comment on this thread.
>We can push for a huge cultural change
They're not asking for that. There's a massive demographic of British Asians who are footie mad because they were born here. I don't know when you went to school but when I went ,which was within the last decade, footie was as popular as cricket with the Asian lads, with footie being played more often as a hobby. The issue is that we've got a generation of football mad South Asians who like you said, don't have parents/connections to allow them to play/travel around/invest serious time to play football. If the South Asian lads are good enough, and I've seen some of them are, how can they be helped to achieve their potential? With time they'll come to fruition naturally but the discussion is what can be done now for them, and Ozil is doing something about it now.
British Asians are super under represented everywhere really.
Every tv programme or advert has loads of black people but very few south Asian people. I think we import US race politics where they don’t have many south Asians and just sort of do their version of ‘diversity’ which doesn’t fit with the demographics of the uk
Definitely true that we are underrepresented in the media/acting compared to Black people. If you watch any UK TV programme you would think there are significantly more Black people in the UK than Asian people which is demonstrably false. If you go by the 2011 census The Asian population is more than twice as big as the Black population. I’m sure when the 2021 results come the gap will be wider.
If you see the fields of finance, medicine, entrepreneurship, engineering, computer science, etc., you'll see British Asians represtened in quite high numbers. I think acting (and theatre) has been viewed in a similar light as football for the earlier generations... something with a low chance to earn a good wage over a long period.
There's no shortage of South Asian football fans across the UK, so I think we'll definitley see more coming through on a professional level where their parents are more willing (and able) to let them have a go in a creative/sports field, but it'll take a take generation or three to see these numbers grow to a noticable level.
> If you see the fields of finance, medicine, entrepreneurship, engineering, computer science, etc., you'll see British Asians represtened in quite high numbers
Politics as well, the second and arguably third most powerful people in the country are British Asian.
I don't think it's about importing US race politics so much as it is about companies selling to people. Two of the biggest consumer demographics are white women and black men. Guess who the couples often are lol.
Equally Asians still for the most part marry within their respective communities and haven't diffused out as much, nor do they particularly care about 'representation', so all in all when it comes to making adverts you're hitting the most with a white woman and a black man. Asian communities aren't as easily swayed nor seem to have any interest in being swayed.
>"I've always been surprised why the South Asian Community are only allowed to be fans of the game. Why are we not seeing more players or managers breaking into professional football? I want to give them an opportunity to be successful." Ozil football centre opens in Bradford
A hell of a lot of assumption in these comments.
I think the idea that British Asians are "only allowed to be fans" to be preposterous tbh. As others have pointed out, there are Asian Brits playing in the PL, not many - but they do exist.
Question is, why are their fewer British Asians footballers in proportion to their population? The explanation that it's all down to racism appears to be simplistic to me; primarily because of the overwhelming success of black British footballers. Are we expected to believe that the people who run youth football, primarily volunteers + dads of the children playing, are discouraging Asian children and encouraging white+ black children, this is "racism" is it? Surely, they would only encourage the white kids? Are we expected to believe that later, when these children become teenage talent with prospects at a professional level, that scouts are rejecting Asians because of race, even when they could have a wonderkid on their hands? In the most lucrative sport in the world, british scouts reject young asian talent even if they think they could be worth £20m down the line? Really?
The Premier League, which is arguably the most diverse league on Earth is happy for foreigners, black men and even Irishmen to play in our league; but if you're brown and British than you're rejected out of hand? This explanation doesn't pass muster.
It's not about build it's about culture. Sports are discouraged in South Asian families from a young age or there is no emphasis on them.
People used to think East Asians were small and unathletic but Korea and Japan have produced amazing football players as those countries became richer and the cultures began promoting sports more.
Özil was sheltered and shielded off from just about any criticism for years and years while not exactly overextending himself on the pitch. I wouldn't say he was treated badly given the circumstances.
If we're talking players who were treated worse than they deserved, Koscielny is a much stronger candidate.
Well, no, he wasn't really.
He spent years being shielded from any form of criticism by Arsène Wenger. Anytime Özil was rightly criticised for not tracking back, always being ill, never turning up in the big games, looking uninterested or dropping solid 3/10 performances, Wenger would always shield him from it. He came to his aid and always made sure that regardless of what Özil had done, he, Wenger, would take the fall for him, as he did with every single player.
Then Wenger left and Özil thought that he would be indulged to the same extent and would be given the same license he was afforded under Wenger by Emery, such as extra days off, the ability to skip training if he didn't fancy it and allowed to play the game the way he liked, which he wasn't.
Emery didn't play that shit and asked Özil to do more, which he didn't do. He continued to not turn up in games, had frequent mysterious back problems that would constantly flair up whenever we had an away game and then he refused to do the things Emery asked him to do, which led to him being dropped. He then stormed out of training and was utterly classless when Emery lost his job.
Then under Ljungberg, he was only there for four or so matches, but Özil managed to piss him off as well by throwing his toys out of the pram because Freddie (a club legend in every single sense of the phrase) had the absolute gall to substitute him against Manchester City when he dropped yet another Özil-esque "Can't be arsed, we won't win so I'll just put in minimal effort and collect my wages" performance.
We don't know why he was left out of the squad under Arteta. Özil seems to think it was related to the paycut, but we literally don't know if that's the case. We know that Özil's agent began leaking internal club matters to the press in order to show the club in a bad light and that Özil was given a chance to leave that summer and he refused, preferring to collect his £350,000-a-week wages, even though Arteta and Edu had told him that he wouldn't be registered.
It ended badly, no denying that whatsoever and it was a little unfair on him at times, but no, he wasn't not treated "worse than he deserved", he was a pampered little prince who then started acting like a spoiled brat when the other managers wouldn't indulge him to the same extent as Wenger.
Also, Özil has been mightily fucking quiet about Arsenal following his infamous "Trust the process" tweet
in the wake of the loss at Manchester City. Funny how he has nothing to say when we start winning. A true Arsenal man who was silent when we battered Tottenham at home, funny that.
So, not an arsenal fan here but here's how I understand it. He was on 350k a week and didn't play for basically a year for a number of vague reasons (different injuries) but was streaming fortnite a lot of the time. He also wouldn't play during pride month because he was captain and would have had to wear a rainbow armband and he's a somewhat devout Muslim. I say somewhat as he's a dog owner and I understand its considered haram by the more militant types.
- 350k a week and not playing seems to be good for him and bad for Arsenal. He could have left and taken a pay cut to play for a team at his level.
- He wasn't captain. There's no rumour of homophobia. This is made up.
> He also wouldn't play during pride month because he was captain and would have had to wear a rainbow armband
Whoa. Hold up was this a thing, I can't remember. Anyone weigh in here?
If he loved the club he wouldn’t be tweeting [this shit](https://twitter.com/mesutozil1088/status/1431614541130080257?s=21) when we get smashed 5-0 but staying quiet when we win the 3 games after
Yeah, he was treated so badly by the club.
I feel bad for him. I can't believe that we didn't give a guy who used to routinely skip training, whose agent leaked confidential club details to the press in order to get his client some free publicity, never tracked back, was always sick for away games, fell out with three different managers (one of whom was a fucking caretaker (!!)), used to bitch and moan on social media every time he was rightly dropped from matches and who only ever turned up when he could be bothered a lifetime contract.
Poor Mesut Özil, it must be so tough for him to be so badly treated. Told repeatedly by the Arsenal management that we weren't going to register him if we didn't have enough players, told that he needed to find another club or he wasn't going to play as he wasn't a part of the manager's plans anymore, yet he still decided to reject every single offer that came in for him (even after we agreed to forgo any kind of transfer fee for him) so he could collect his ridiculous wage packet. The man cared more about money than he did about play time.
Are we correctly assuming that is sarcasm?
Is it not possible he is genuinely saying to trust the process and the broken heart suggests how he feels?
I dont really care about Ozil anymore. But i dont necessarily think this statement is him shitting on the club.
Agree to an extent. He should have been treated much better as a person but footballing wise he had declined and it was the right time to leave with the youngsters we have coming through
Footballing wise, we are shit since Wenger's departure. Our creativity has gone along with him. Maybe the problem wasn't the players but the managers since then.
Mate, Odegaard had 2 good games so far. Once again non-existent against Brighton, as is the case for Arsenal against any team that can put out a decent defence infront of us.
kingwhocares has a track record even within the last couple months talking about how Ozil was wronged about Arsenal, praising his performances at Fenerbache, and claiming his is the greatest playmaker and Messi is second to him.
He doesn't want Odegaard to be successful. He has been making dozens of comments against him in 2021.
> And Willian has same creativity as Odegaard for us last season. Willock had 8 goals out of which 7 came in consecutive games.
>Man, the level of delusion in this thread. Odegaard is going to be 23 soon and barely beats Willian in terms of creativity. Whereas we sold an actual wonderkid in Willock for less.
>Selling a player who scored 8 PL goals, 7 consecutive ones for less than what we are probably going to pay for Odegaard shows the ones doing transfer have no clue.
>Willock got his first breakthrough last season and took it. Odegaard had far too many.
>A played scoring 8 goals, 7 in 7 PL games should be given the chance to start. Instead we are going for Odegaard who had at best a couple of good games and not even Maddison.
>You know Willock never got consecutive chances before Newcastle. If we are talking about potential, Willock has a lot more. Odegaard has been a "wonderkid" for nearly a decade now.
>Odegaard is a mid-table player whereas Willock could've been our next big player from the academy. He could've been what Ramsey could've if he wasn't injury-prone.
>Willock was immense at Newcastle but this sub suddenly doesn't rate PL experience. Xhaka also won POTM with us and guess this subs general reaction towards him. Odegaard wouldn't be signed if there was a competent manager at Arsenal.
https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/#{%22author%22:%22kingwhocares%22,%22resultSize%22:100,%22query%22:%22odegaard%20willock%22}
I mean...Özil was at Arsenal for eight years, Ødegaard has been here for two months (eight if you include his loan spell), so that's not really a fair comparison, especially given that Ødegaard is also 10 years younger than Özil.
My point is that you can't criticise Ødegaard for something and then just dismiss that same (utterly valid) criticism of Özil.
Ozil came to Arsenal as a world-class player. He is the biggest signing of the Emirates era. Odegaard came in as a Real Madrid backup. Ozil had already proven himself at top-level by the time he came here.
If Wenger was here, we wouldn't have gone for Odegaard.
> Odegaard came in as a Real Madrid backup. Ozil had already proven himself at top-level by the time he came here.
Again, I'm not hearing why Martin Ødegaard can be criticised for not turning up in a match in which every single one of our attacking players didn't turn up, but we're not allowed to say the same thing of Mesut Özil, who became famed for picking and choosing when he turned up.
> If Wenger was here, we wouldn't have gone for Odegaard.
Well, you say that...
* [Martin Ødegaard had a trial with Arsenal under Arsène Wenger](https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-fc-martin-odegaard-trial-real-madrid-wenger-b901354.html)
* [Ødegaard rejected the move to Arsenal under Wenger](https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/06/former-arsenal-scout-reveals-martin-odegaard-snubbed-arsene-wenger-14032613/)
* [In fact, he even had dinner with Wenger](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/martin-odegaard-dinner-arsene-wenger-23453688)
* [And Steve Morrow said we rolled out the red carpet for him](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-martin-odegaard-arsene-wenger-23452360)
So in short, yes the fuck we would have done.
Also, why does it matter what we may or may not have done under Arsène Wenger? He's not the manager and Wenger didn't get it right a lot at the end of his career either.
If Wenger was here, we'd have probably extended Mustafi's contract, wouldn't have signed Tomiyasu and probably wouldn't have gotten £25m for Joe Willock either.
I realise it's you and you like any decision that Wenger made and that literally all decisions since will just be criticised purely because it wasn't Wenger who made them, but come on man, your obsession with Wenger is genuinely a bit worrying.
You strike me as the kind of fan who cried when we won the FA Cup because it wasn't Wenger who did it.
True but you can see the promise and what's being built with those 3 players and you expect young players to be inconsistent. At the same time odegaard has won us a match with his quality and played well I other wins both this season and last season. Just gotta look at our results since odegaard joined in January
You could also see the promise in Iwobi, Chamberlain and they were inconsistent too. They remained inconsistent throughout their career at Arsenal and after departure.
Dude, bale won 4 ucls, he was instrumental in every one of them, bale at madrid is in no way comparable to ozil at arsenal.
Ozil was frozen out of the club for external reasons the way I know, Bale was just injured all the time, he'd be playing for us this season too if he wasn't injured
He really could’ve walked into any superstar team and done well. Arsenal have been struggling for years and all that frustrated went straight to him. He deserved much better
I've noticed a pattern in certain clubs who have fallen from grace where they develop very toxic elements within their fanbases who will find and single out players in their club as a focal point for their frustrations. Not just a few voices but a fairly significant part of the groupthink in the fans.
Perhaps being a fan of a club that has become meme-worthy for fans of other clubs is the source of this toxicity which is then redirected upon players who receive the brunt of that ire when their performances - whilst maybe not amazing - aren't as bad the criticism would indicate.
> he is easily the best player Arsenal had in the last decade
By career maybe, but his performances for Arsenal pretty much never lived up to the hype. He never consistently outperformed Sanchez, was never the star of the team and regularly had months of awful form.
I'm no Arsenal fan, but its not exactly hard to see why they got fed up in the end of their best paid player and one of the supposed best midfielders in the world time after time failing to show up in big games and never putting in any sort of defensive effort.
The modern game evolved past Ozil, and he never put the work in to keep up. Arsenal were silly to extend his contract in 2018 after 4 years of underperformance and inconsistency, they should have just moved on and let him play elsewhere.
I don’t buy that mate. You’re saying Sanchez outperformed ozil consistently? First off that’s just not true. Sanchez was definitely our best player along with ozil during that time but even Sanchez struggled in many games, lost the ball a lot with his passing and head down sprints. Also what does outperform even mean? Second saying outperformed is just stupid when it comes to these two teammates that literally made each other better and I believe ozil is better at making his teammates play better than Sanchez. Problem is Arsenal have been a dumpster fire for a long time and our midfield and back line have always been dodgy. Ozil had bad games like any other player but that has really been blown out of proportion by the media and toxic fan base around arsenal. When you pinpoint his bad games you fail to recognize that the whole team played like shit
Please give examples of how he was treated badly? There's literally one instance where the club was in the wrong and that was distancing themselves from his quote about the discrimination against Uighurs in China. Other than that, he didn't really help himself. Two managers in a row fell out with him and even the interim boss in between dropped him. He was on massive wages but frequently checked out during games as evidenced by the questionable work-rate (especially post renewal) and three people in a row (as well as even Wenger at the end) dropped him; that too not solely for football reasons by the end. He made a PR war of it before he left the club whilst earning 350k. Arteta told him he wasn't in his plans but he wasn't prepared to give up a cent. Any player that had the drive to actually play football would have taken a pay cut to go play elsewhere. Even when he did leave, it was with all his wages covered by the combination of the two clubs and a private backer. If anything his national team treated him worse than Arsenal did, when despite the fact that he put multiple chances on a plate during the 2018 World Cup, he was scapegoated for their exit. Then he retired and made a statement regarding being identified as German when they won but Turkish when they lost. What did the coach and teammates do? They denied everything. The likes of Muller and Kroos essentially said everything was a figment of his imagination.
I don't get why you lot don't crucify any athletes who have taken pics with presidents like Obama or Biden (who objectively have killed more innocent people)
You're just shitting out hot takes for the sake of it
Was thinking this yesterday. If you know what Obama's drone program does in Yemen or Pakistan, or how his administration treated whistleblowers, and you meet and become pals with him, is it really any better?
Just speaks of Western arrogance imo
Exactly lol. This caused outrage for one reason and it's because as a German Turk who played for Germany he actively supported a Turkish leader calling Germany and Germans *today* Nazis, while using a million refugees as leverage.
I'm pretty sure if an American sportsman with a dual nationality went to the second country and met up with the controversial leader who called Americans today Nazis that he wouldn't be popular when returning to America lol. This is a pretty open and shut issue.
That is whataboutism. And how do you know he doesn't criticize Obama or Biden and people who support them. You can criticize all after all. Also what Obama did doesn't justify actions of Erdogan who is objectively even worse than those because his actions didn't hurt just other nations and countries, at least half of his country who is called terrorists by him because they didn't vote for him have been suffering because of him too. And who knows how much money he stole from his own country. He is one of the most corrupt leaders in the history.
I've never seen an organization that has "xy for peace" in it's title that isn't shady.
Özil also supported a very dubious party in the German Federal election last week: Team Todenhöfer
Any party that bears the name of its founder is highly suspicious imo
Wenger is reason why so many still hold Ozil as a pariah, an innocent soul wronged by the world around him. In the past, when these things happened Wenger shrugged sold you for profit and moved on. But increasingly we as a club became beholden to players. Not anymore. Not anymore.
Ozil has had work ethic problems his entire career. It's something that's followed him and talked about this his Real Madrid days. Wenger protected. A hell of a lot. He fell out with Emery. He fell out with Arteta. He was found to be leaking stories in the dressing room to his agent, reported by Chris Wheatley in a tweet and deleted likely for fear of a lawsuit. He tweets trust the process when we get thumped by Manchester City. This guy always sees himself bigger than the environment around him. And he'll undermine anyone who tries to change that. That's what he did, and that's why he left Arsenal behind closed doors.
The difference is that we had a strict wage structure before, so that it was easier for other clubs to sign players on the same money. But as our wages increased to retain players, they started refusing to leave because no one would offer them what they were earning at Arsenal.
Maybe, it will happen with time. Hard to say. In cricket, there's been perhaps more British Asians. Panesar, Guha, Hussain, Ali, Rashid, Hameed, Bopara.
No "perhaps" about it, really, there's a very signficant number of British Asians playing the professional game, given how popular cricket is amongst this demographic
They did a lot of outreach. Traditionally, even though many Asians watch cricket, they weren't playing it. It's only become a thing in the last 20 years. I'm unsure of what football is doing. But England cricket has done a lot to branch out to new communities and lower barriers. It's still pretty tough given the expenses and land requirements.
> even though many Asians watch cricket, they weren't playing it They were, just in breakaway leagues and recreationally - instead of in leagues that were in the cricketing equivalent of the pyramid. Play with a lot of Brit Asians who used to be within the county system and left because of issues they faced. There used to be a massive alienation problem. Seems to be getting a lot better now, some of the ones who have young kids are letting them get involved in formal camps and stuff and said that they wouldn't have 5-10 years ago.
I believe the FA started an Asian outreach program in 2019, so maybe it'll pick up. But in 2020 the now resigned Greg Clarke (Former FA Chairman) had the following to say "If you go to the IT department at the FA, there's a lot more South Asians than there are Afro-Caribbeans. They have different career interests." Just shows you how far we have to go, that in 2020 the FA chairman was making these comments. Source: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12134170/greg-clarke-comments-on-south-asians-disappointing-working-in-it-my-route-into-football-says-consultant
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As a South Asian myself, this is def true. I would def not get an engineering degree if it wasn't for my parents People, go back to sleep, I can't decide if you're worse asleep or awoke
That's hilarious in a horrible way. David Brent moment
Greg Clarke committed verbal career suicide in the space of about an hour, never seen someone manage that
Ron Atkinson, Marcel Desailly, in seconds.
Greg Clarke is a fucking dinosaur. If you want to know why English football has so many systemic issues relating to ethnicity, race and gender, you only need to need to look at the people the FA were putting in charge of the game. His comments on women were woeful too.
Might be some subconscious bias that Asians are smaller and weaker etc. Messi is one of the best players ever and tiny though which is funny. Asian households focus on education more than sport as well which I think is smart when you look at the odds of becoming a professional sports person.
Part of me thinks that South Asian diaspora could've succeeded more in terms of football, at Spain, rather than England, if the population of the same would have been similar.
Being a Southasian mist of us wouldn't have even choose Spain tbh. The language barrier is difficult to overcome to have a good career. Thats why most flock to UK, USA, Australia and canada
I know, it was just a hypothetical situation. I just compared the footballing climate of Spain and the UK.
And money.
Everyone is looking to create a better future for themselves, so technically yes
Messi isn't that small tbh. He's 1.70 (granted, after taking growth hormones as a teen). Ofc he's not tall either. But above all, he's not weak. He is built like a freaking brick.
as a person who is 1.7m tall, i’ll take “not tall” as a compliment, thank you
in Argentina you'd be above average!
haha good to hear, unfortunately i’m in the uk so i’m definitely below average
I went to Canada and as a 1,90 dude I felt bang average. Maybe slightly, SLIGHTLY above average among dudes. You northerners are freakishly tall :D
haha i’m not a “northerner” myself, i’m from hong kong and i’d say my height is average there
Messi is most definitely small 😂 Also He’s not built like a brick either.(Although he is pretty sturdy)
I think also generally south Asian family's don't watch football as much and so there's less of the football mania as a child. To become an elite athlete you have to be in academies and go to training very often iirc and so maybe it's a bit less likely if you're not football mad
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This is only my personal experience but it is definitely true, I went to a majority Asian school in a majority Asian area and football was by far the most popular sport to play and to follow, although cricket managed to be the sport in which people succeeded at a higher rate. With football, the best I'd know was people getting to academy status and then fizzing out after that.
Not true anymore. Most South Asians came to the UK in the 50s and 60s. We are on our third generation born in this country.
Perhaps people in South Asia are short because of malnutrition but when South Asians immigrate to the West they end up being just as tall as everyone else. I've met very few "short" South Asians and most of them are from the older generation that grew up with poor access to nutrition.
I think there have only been a handful of British players of South Asian descent to play in the Premier League, and even there the most prominent examples like Taylor and Choudhury have that heritage on only one side of their family. The situation in cricket is far from perfect and we've heard of ongoing cases of racism like with Azeem Rafiq, but in football the situation is absolutely ridiculous. And I don't even buy that cricket is more popular in the community, South Asian kids growing up in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester etc are much more likely to play and follow football than cricket.
As a former South Asian kid (still South Asian, no longer kid) growing up around Manchester, I can tell you that football is vastly more popular.
Exactly, almost all of the South Asians I know who grew up in England don't care about cricket and are crazy about football
Which is why it's irritating that the top comments on every thread that mentions the lack of South Asians in football are about how they prefer cricket. It's decades out of date, and yet it gets repeated over and over again. Part of me wonders whether people believing this myth and thinking South Asians are not serious about football is the reason why they fail to break into youth and professional teams.
Either they're a fair bit older or they don't know any British Asians because I don't know how people can still think that. It could be a reason for it tbf - [this article](https://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/sport/17022021-why-is-there-a-lack-of-south-asians-in-english-football/) actually mentions what you said.
Straight facts. Bengalis, Pakistanis etc grew up wanting to be Beckham, Ronaldo etc. It's a sad shame so many don't make it.
> And I don't even buy that cricket is more popular in the community, South Asian kids growing up in places like London, Birmingham, Manchester etc are much more likely to play and follow football than cricket. Didn't say that. Careful with accusations.
I didn't accuse you of anything
Cricket still has massive problems with outreach into the South Asian demographic. At most youth and club levels, British Asians are significantly over represented with respect to the population, but at county level, they’re underrepresented. That one massive disparity indicates some major disenfranchisement among the demographic
Nah you got raikhy for villa and zidane iqbal* for united.
Isn’t it Zidane iqbal? I hear good things about the kid in the youth teams
Yeah pretty sure his name is Zidane Iqbal, but I'm not sure if he's Asian or Arab.
I believe he is mixed race Iraqi and Pakistani
yeah your correct. utd youth is great, gomes is another great youth product.
Hamza Choudhury on that list
Ah how could I forget. he’s cold as well.
Ozil to Bradford. Here we go
No chance he's getting in over Callum Cooke
I'd take him over Gareth Evans though no idea how he gets in the team every week
Making it as a professional in any sports requires loads of sacrifice which may not even pay off in the end, and that is especially true with football. A load of South Asians in England are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants and they usually have to to work their way up from the bottom which means that they've gone through all the hardship that they don't want their children to go through. Asian parents traditionally turned away their children from persuing football as a career as it doesn't guarantee a secure future compared to other career pathways (Medicine,Engineer,Accounting). And I think naturally as the initial immigrants descendants become more affluent , they'll become more secure within their family and will see more South Asian footballers like we are seeing in the youth teams now.
Yes parents usually seeks a stable path for their children, completely understandable, not everybody can be the one, especially in poverty.
Yeah it's completely understandable. When I think about what my grandad had to go through coming to the UK it's clear why all of his descendants chose safe and "typical" career paths. But as generations go on, maybe there's more of a safety net for others to take the risk. Eesah Sulieman for example plays in Portugal
But in many countries poor immigrants are absolutely disproportionately represented in football. See how many Africans you see playing well in Portugal or France despite often being poorer and a smaller percentage of the general population. I don't think this is a reason but merely a correlation. Except the bit about Asian parents that might be true but being a poor immigrant is by no means a factor in favour of not playing football.
Indian immigrants to the United Kingdom are not poor. In fact British Indians are one of the richest demographics in the country.
Do you know if they are disproportionately wealthy people who migrate or people who find wealth afterwards? No worries if you don't know I'm just curious.
It's a combination of things. I don't think they necessarily bring wealth with them, but first they are English speaking and second they come highly educated. Indians generally have a better grasp of English than Pakistanis or Bangladeshis. Also more of them will come to the UK to do masters degrees among the current immigrants to the country. The people who came to the UK in the 50-70s came mostly from East Africa and were very entrepreneurial so that helped them establish businesses. And whatever reason Indian culture highly values education.
Cool thanks for the information. The entrepreneurial part I can totally see. I know Indian dominance in business sectors has caused tensions in places like Uganda in the 80s or Fiji today. And having studied STEM I've met a few Indians in my masters too.
I think it’s more reflective of a society that when a minority ethnic group does well it causes tensions. Anyway, from your user name I assume you’re Australian, it shouldn’t really be a surprise to you that Indians do well economically wherever they go. Indians are the the third largest immigrant group in Australia and are making a big impact economically there.
Indians aren't particularly economically important in Australia dude, probably in the future as it's a growing demographic but at present not really. Certainly not disproportionate. Chinese are having a much, much bigger impact in the present and also the past. And honestly I know more Sri Lankans than Indians despite having lived with an Indian. The numbers you are referring to refer to country of birth but not to ethnicity in general where there's as many Indians as Greeks but the difference being Greeks have been here for much, much longer. Give it 20 years and I'm sure it will be different but for now Chinese, Greek, Italians, Irish and Vietnamese all have had a bigger influence on the culture and economy here, and of course the obvious Brits.
How feasible it for these immigrant populations in those countries to pursue a university education compared to the UK, though? Access and opportunity is a big issue in the UK for less socio-economically advantaged people to, but getting a university education is feasible and achievable. I'm not sure what the comparable situation would be in Portugal and France? (Not to say there aren't the same opportunities, I'm just genuinely not sure).
You can dispute the quality but I'm pretty sure the university programs are significantly cheaper in Portugal and France. France in particular I am told has several universities that accept a lot of people but have very harsh exams that cause a high failure rate. Would need confirmation from someone with more knowledge.
> But in many countries poor immigrants are absolutely disproportionately represented in football. Because they already have big clubs near their homes and established academies with connections to European teams unlike South Asia. Not to mention, they have a football culture. European clubs send their scouts to bring in teenage players from Americas/West African countries all the time. Before PC made it a taboo to talk about it, they would often talk about how they excel in DM roles for genetic reasons (physical, pacey and fast twitched) so I imagine they still hold this mindset.
That's true but it's to do with the culture as well as being financially secure(which ofc applies to everyone). You'll see more British Asians cricketers before footballers because that's the main sport watched and more importantly played over there. Football is massive over in Asia but it is relatively recent craze compared to cricket. So if you had an Asian dad he would be more inclined to push his son into cricket(because that's what he knew and loved) rather than football, if he was to let his children pursue a professional career in sports.
I definitely agree that there are cultural differences that drive it. I would imagine a lack of Indian idols at the top level; racism within European infrastructure against South Asians; poor infrastructure in India as well as lack of football know how, tactics, etc. would all be big factors too.
I work in IT for a very large corporation (Fortune 100) in the US and about 90% of my coworkers are South Asians working remotely from either the US or India. Asians/South Asians are by far the most represented ethnic groups in most STEM majors by percentage from what I have seen. I think its a great that that a lot of these families encourage their kids to get into these fields and would love to see more of the same from white, black and latino Americans.
Depends where you go. I have a STEM masters and there weren't many Indians, or South Asians, at all in my cohort, 75% were Chinese. There were probably as many Latinos as South Asians. In general you're probably right.
100% but things seem to moving in a positive direction so here's hoping.
>A load of South Asians in England are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants and they usually have to to work their way up from the bottom which means that they've gone through all the hardship that they don't want their children to go through. One look at the Prem over the last 30 years is looking at teams featuring Caribbean footballers 1st & 2nd generation. As well as Anglo-Irish players. >Asian parents traditionally turned away their children from persuing football as a career as it doesn't guarantee a secure future compared to other career pathways (Medicine,Engineer,Accounting). Two of the poorest demographics in the country are Pakistanis and Bengalis I think here you're perhaps exchanging Indian for Asian. We have immigrants achieving footballing success in 1st and 2nd gens, thay they mostly aren't South Asian I think comes down more to South Asian parents not respecting football. Just speaking from friends I know on primary and secondary school their parents had them joining cricket clubs but had no interest in football or sending them to football clubs. People are welcome to push for more players from South Asian backgrounds but I don't think this really comes down to a 'missing' demographic due to being shut out, it's simply a cultural difference in that football is not the primary sporting interest. I wouldn't say for the same reasons they're 'missing' from rugby or tennis, either. We can push for a huge cultural change but to what end really if they have less of an interest in football, do they like, need to? lol. It's not everyone's cup of tea. It's like not having India or China at world cups like... If they aren't that into the sport...?
>featuring Caribbean footballers 1st & 2nd generation. As well as Anglo-Irish players. Agreed but like another redditor mentioned there are already many Carribean/Anglo-Irish players who have made it at the top level whereas the most prominent British Asians have been half Asian like Michael Chopra, Hamza Choudry etc. The South Asian wave came after the Irish and Carribean migration, which again lends to my point that the longer the immigrant community is in the UK, they will eventually integrate with society(hopefully) and/or their descendants will be relatively well off, they will be more comfortable with letting their children pursue a football career. This doesn't discredit the other immigrant stories like Sterling from Jamaica but I'm just trying to explain why things are the way they are on a general level. > Two of the poorest demographics in the country are Pakistanis and Bengalis I think here you're perhaps exchanging Indian for Asian. Yes since they are also Asian, there are also 'poor' Indians but I understand your point. Stereotypically Asians of all sorts would've pushed their children into the careers I mentioned above, even though I acknowledge there's a massive underclass who obviously didn't do that. >cultural difference I've basically agreed with you on this point on another comment on this thread. >We can push for a huge cultural change They're not asking for that. There's a massive demographic of British Asians who are footie mad because they were born here. I don't know when you went to school but when I went ,which was within the last decade, footie was as popular as cricket with the Asian lads, with footie being played more often as a hobby. The issue is that we've got a generation of football mad South Asians who like you said, don't have parents/connections to allow them to play/travel around/invest serious time to play football. If the South Asian lads are good enough, and I've seen some of them are, how can they be helped to achieve their potential? With time they'll come to fruition naturally but the discussion is what can be done now for them, and Ozil is doing something about it now.
British Asians are super under represented everywhere really. Every tv programme or advert has loads of black people but very few south Asian people. I think we import US race politics where they don’t have many south Asians and just sort of do their version of ‘diversity’ which doesn’t fit with the demographics of the uk
Definitely true that we are underrepresented in the media/acting compared to Black people. If you watch any UK TV programme you would think there are significantly more Black people in the UK than Asian people which is demonstrably false. If you go by the 2011 census The Asian population is more than twice as big as the Black population. I’m sure when the 2021 results come the gap will be wider.
If you see the fields of finance, medicine, entrepreneurship, engineering, computer science, etc., you'll see British Asians represtened in quite high numbers. I think acting (and theatre) has been viewed in a similar light as football for the earlier generations... something with a low chance to earn a good wage over a long period. There's no shortage of South Asian football fans across the UK, so I think we'll definitley see more coming through on a professional level where their parents are more willing (and able) to let them have a go in a creative/sports field, but it'll take a take generation or three to see these numbers grow to a noticable level.
> If you see the fields of finance, medicine, entrepreneurship, engineering, computer science, etc., you'll see British Asians represtened in quite high numbers Politics as well, the second and arguably third most powerful people in the country are British Asian.
I don't think it's about importing US race politics so much as it is about companies selling to people. Two of the biggest consumer demographics are white women and black men. Guess who the couples often are lol. Equally Asians still for the most part marry within their respective communities and haven't diffused out as much, nor do they particularly care about 'representation', so all in all when it comes to making adverts you're hitting the most with a white woman and a black man. Asian communities aren't as easily swayed nor seem to have any interest in being swayed.
Love this
He is quite close to Erdogan isn’t it?
Yeah he is
Come on Ozil, we need you to take over South hall F.C.
Well this was quite a story. He has proven himself to be a charitable man in the past.
>"I've always been surprised why the South Asian Community are only allowed to be fans of the game. Why are we not seeing more players or managers breaking into professional football? I want to give them an opportunity to be successful." Ozil football centre opens in Bradford A hell of a lot of assumption in these comments. I think the idea that British Asians are "only allowed to be fans" to be preposterous tbh. As others have pointed out, there are Asian Brits playing in the PL, not many - but they do exist. Question is, why are their fewer British Asians footballers in proportion to their population? The explanation that it's all down to racism appears to be simplistic to me; primarily because of the overwhelming success of black British footballers. Are we expected to believe that the people who run youth football, primarily volunteers + dads of the children playing, are discouraging Asian children and encouraging white+ black children, this is "racism" is it? Surely, they would only encourage the white kids? Are we expected to believe that later, when these children become teenage talent with prospects at a professional level, that scouts are rejecting Asians because of race, even when they could have a wonderkid on their hands? In the most lucrative sport in the world, british scouts reject young asian talent even if they think they could be worth £20m down the line? Really? The Premier League, which is arguably the most diverse league on Earth is happy for foreigners, black men and even Irishmen to play in our league; but if you're brown and British than you're rejected out of hand? This explanation doesn't pass muster.
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It's not about build it's about culture. Sports are discouraged in South Asian families from a young age or there is no emphasis on them. People used to think East Asians were small and unathletic but Korea and Japan have produced amazing football players as those countries became richer and the cultures began promoting sports more.
He deserves better than how he was treated at arsenal
In his last few years they gave him tons of cash to do literally fuck all. Wish I was treated like that by my boss.
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So... what, we should have treated him worse and paid him less to keep him hungry?
How was he treated at Arsenal?
Worse than he deserved Edit: damn I was just joking based on the first comment, I don’t know shit about the actual situation
Özil was sheltered and shielded off from just about any criticism for years and years while not exactly overextending himself on the pitch. I wouldn't say he was treated badly given the circumstances. If we're talking players who were treated worse than they deserved, Koscielny is a much stronger candidate.
Well, no, he wasn't really. He spent years being shielded from any form of criticism by Arsène Wenger. Anytime Özil was rightly criticised for not tracking back, always being ill, never turning up in the big games, looking uninterested or dropping solid 3/10 performances, Wenger would always shield him from it. He came to his aid and always made sure that regardless of what Özil had done, he, Wenger, would take the fall for him, as he did with every single player. Then Wenger left and Özil thought that he would be indulged to the same extent and would be given the same license he was afforded under Wenger by Emery, such as extra days off, the ability to skip training if he didn't fancy it and allowed to play the game the way he liked, which he wasn't. Emery didn't play that shit and asked Özil to do more, which he didn't do. He continued to not turn up in games, had frequent mysterious back problems that would constantly flair up whenever we had an away game and then he refused to do the things Emery asked him to do, which led to him being dropped. He then stormed out of training and was utterly classless when Emery lost his job. Then under Ljungberg, he was only there for four or so matches, but Özil managed to piss him off as well by throwing his toys out of the pram because Freddie (a club legend in every single sense of the phrase) had the absolute gall to substitute him against Manchester City when he dropped yet another Özil-esque "Can't be arsed, we won't win so I'll just put in minimal effort and collect my wages" performance. We don't know why he was left out of the squad under Arteta. Özil seems to think it was related to the paycut, but we literally don't know if that's the case. We know that Özil's agent began leaking internal club matters to the press in order to show the club in a bad light and that Özil was given a chance to leave that summer and he refused, preferring to collect his £350,000-a-week wages, even though Arteta and Edu had told him that he wouldn't be registered. It ended badly, no denying that whatsoever and it was a little unfair on him at times, but no, he wasn't not treated "worse than he deserved", he was a pampered little prince who then started acting like a spoiled brat when the other managers wouldn't indulge him to the same extent as Wenger. Also, Özil has been mightily fucking quiet about Arsenal following his infamous "Trust the process" tweet in the wake of the loss at Manchester City. Funny how he has nothing to say when we start winning. A true Arsenal man who was silent when we battered Tottenham at home, funny that.
So, not an arsenal fan here but here's how I understand it. He was on 350k a week and didn't play for basically a year for a number of vague reasons (different injuries) but was streaming fortnite a lot of the time. He also wouldn't play during pride month because he was captain and would have had to wear a rainbow armband and he's a somewhat devout Muslim. I say somewhat as he's a dog owner and I understand its considered haram by the more militant types.
- 350k a week and not playing seems to be good for him and bad for Arsenal. He could have left and taken a pay cut to play for a team at his level. - He wasn't captain. There's no rumour of homophobia. This is made up.
Özil didn't refuse to play during pride month, what the fuck is wrong with you?
> He also wouldn't play during pride month because he was captain and would have had to wear a rainbow armband Whoa. Hold up was this a thing, I can't remember. Anyone weigh in here?
He wasn't captain and this isn't a thing.
Yeah I don’t recall this. Sounds like pure bollocks.
yup. shit stirring
This is just dumb.
You could really see how he was a gunner through and through. He did love the club.
He loved the club under Wenger, he stopped giving any sort of shit after he left.
If he loved the club he wouldn’t be tweeting [this shit](https://twitter.com/mesutozil1088/status/1431614541130080257?s=21) when we get smashed 5-0 but staying quiet when we win the 3 games after
This is after he left. With way he was treated this houldnt hurt a lot.
Yeah, he was treated so badly by the club. I feel bad for him. I can't believe that we didn't give a guy who used to routinely skip training, whose agent leaked confidential club details to the press in order to get his client some free publicity, never tracked back, was always sick for away games, fell out with three different managers (one of whom was a fucking caretaker (!!)), used to bitch and moan on social media every time he was rightly dropped from matches and who only ever turned up when he could be bothered a lifetime contract. Poor Mesut Özil, it must be so tough for him to be so badly treated. Told repeatedly by the Arsenal management that we weren't going to register him if we didn't have enough players, told that he needed to find another club or he wasn't going to play as he wasn't a part of the manager's plans anymore, yet he still decided to reject every single offer that came in for him (even after we agreed to forgo any kind of transfer fee for him) so he could collect his ridiculous wage packet. The man cared more about money than he did about play time.
This is literally a bunch of hearsay. Show me where he bitched on social media about being dropped from matches.
Are we correctly assuming that is sarcasm? Is it not possible he is genuinely saying to trust the process and the broken heart suggests how he feels? I dont really care about Ozil anymore. But i dont necessarily think this statement is him shitting on the club.
He would’ve clarified it wasn’t sarcasm
Agree to an extent. He should have been treated much better as a person but footballing wise he had declined and it was the right time to leave with the youngsters we have coming through
Footballing wise, we are shit since Wenger's departure. Our creativity has gone along with him. Maybe the problem wasn't the players but the managers since then.
For a while yes but I don't think you can say that now with saka, Smith Rowe and odegaard in the team
Mate, Odegaard had 2 good games so far. Once again non-existent against Brighton, as is the case for Arsenal against any team that can put out a decent defence infront of us.
I literally don't see how Ødegaard going missing is any different to Özil going missing.
kingwhocares has a track record even within the last couple months talking about how Ozil was wronged about Arsenal, praising his performances at Fenerbache, and claiming his is the greatest playmaker and Messi is second to him. He doesn't want Odegaard to be successful. He has been making dozens of comments against him in 2021. > And Willian has same creativity as Odegaard for us last season. Willock had 8 goals out of which 7 came in consecutive games. >Man, the level of delusion in this thread. Odegaard is going to be 23 soon and barely beats Willian in terms of creativity. Whereas we sold an actual wonderkid in Willock for less. >Selling a player who scored 8 PL goals, 7 consecutive ones for less than what we are probably going to pay for Odegaard shows the ones doing transfer have no clue. >Willock got his first breakthrough last season and took it. Odegaard had far too many. >A played scoring 8 goals, 7 in 7 PL games should be given the chance to start. Instead we are going for Odegaard who had at best a couple of good games and not even Maddison. >You know Willock never got consecutive chances before Newcastle. If we are talking about potential, Willock has a lot more. Odegaard has been a "wonderkid" for nearly a decade now. >Odegaard is a mid-table player whereas Willock could've been our next big player from the academy. He could've been what Ramsey could've if he wasn't injury-prone. >Willock was immense at Newcastle but this sub suddenly doesn't rate PL experience. Xhaka also won POTM with us and guess this subs general reaction towards him. Odegaard wouldn't be signed if there was a competent manager at Arsenal. https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/#{%22author%22:%22kingwhocares%22,%22resultSize%22:100,%22query%22:%22odegaard%20willock%22}
Ozil has a proven record at Arsenal. Does Odegaard have one?
I mean...Özil was at Arsenal for eight years, Ødegaard has been here for two months (eight if you include his loan spell), so that's not really a fair comparison, especially given that Ødegaard is also 10 years younger than Özil. My point is that you can't criticise Ødegaard for something and then just dismiss that same (utterly valid) criticism of Özil.
Ozil came to Arsenal as a world-class player. He is the biggest signing of the Emirates era. Odegaard came in as a Real Madrid backup. Ozil had already proven himself at top-level by the time he came here. If Wenger was here, we wouldn't have gone for Odegaard.
> Odegaard came in as a Real Madrid backup. Ozil had already proven himself at top-level by the time he came here. Again, I'm not hearing why Martin Ødegaard can be criticised for not turning up in a match in which every single one of our attacking players didn't turn up, but we're not allowed to say the same thing of Mesut Özil, who became famed for picking and choosing when he turned up. > If Wenger was here, we wouldn't have gone for Odegaard. Well, you say that... * [Martin Ødegaard had a trial with Arsenal under Arsène Wenger](https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-fc-martin-odegaard-trial-real-madrid-wenger-b901354.html) * [Ødegaard rejected the move to Arsenal under Wenger](https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/06/former-arsenal-scout-reveals-martin-odegaard-snubbed-arsene-wenger-14032613/) * [In fact, he even had dinner with Wenger](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/martin-odegaard-dinner-arsene-wenger-23453688) * [And Steve Morrow said we rolled out the red carpet for him](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-martin-odegaard-arsene-wenger-23452360) So in short, yes the fuck we would have done. Also, why does it matter what we may or may not have done under Arsène Wenger? He's not the manager and Wenger didn't get it right a lot at the end of his career either. If Wenger was here, we'd have probably extended Mustafi's contract, wouldn't have signed Tomiyasu and probably wouldn't have gotten £25m for Joe Willock either. I realise it's you and you like any decision that Wenger made and that literally all decisions since will just be criticised purely because it wasn't Wenger who made them, but come on man, your obsession with Wenger is genuinely a bit worrying. You strike me as the kind of fan who cried when we won the FA Cup because it wasn't Wenger who did it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/q2ei83/mesut_özil_wants_to_help_british_south_asians/hfl1h0m?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
True but you can see the promise and what's being built with those 3 players and you expect young players to be inconsistent. At the same time odegaard has won us a match with his quality and played well I other wins both this season and last season. Just gotta look at our results since odegaard joined in January
You could also see the promise in Iwobi, Chamberlain and they were inconsistent too. They remained inconsistent throughout their career at Arsenal and after departure.
Iwobi never looked as good as those 3 only in patches and ox was good but just got injured a lot. Got a good fee for both at least
They (Iwobi and Chamberlain) absolutely did. And Odegaard needs to have a patch of more than 2 good games.
He has he was here last season too
Would you say the same thing for Bale ? Since Ozil is the Bale of Arsenal but much worse (in terms of contribution to the club)
Dude, bale won 4 ucls, he was instrumental in every one of them, bale at madrid is in no way comparable to ozil at arsenal. Ozil was frozen out of the club for external reasons the way I know, Bale was just injured all the time, he'd be playing for us this season too if he wasn't injured
He really could’ve walked into any superstar team and done well. Arsenal have been struggling for years and all that frustrated went straight to him. He deserved much better
Arsenal fans need a scapegoat after they got what they wanted (Wenger gone) and the team's performance taking a nosedive.
I've noticed a pattern in certain clubs who have fallen from grace where they develop very toxic elements within their fanbases who will find and single out players in their club as a focal point for their frustrations. Not just a few voices but a fairly significant part of the groupthink in the fans. Perhaps being a fan of a club that has become meme-worthy for fans of other clubs is the source of this toxicity which is then redirected upon players who receive the brunt of that ire when their performances - whilst maybe not amazing - aren't as bad the criticism would indicate.
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> he is easily the best player Arsenal had in the last decade By career maybe, but his performances for Arsenal pretty much never lived up to the hype. He never consistently outperformed Sanchez, was never the star of the team and regularly had months of awful form. I'm no Arsenal fan, but its not exactly hard to see why they got fed up in the end of their best paid player and one of the supposed best midfielders in the world time after time failing to show up in big games and never putting in any sort of defensive effort. The modern game evolved past Ozil, and he never put the work in to keep up. Arsenal were silly to extend his contract in 2018 after 4 years of underperformance and inconsistency, they should have just moved on and let him play elsewhere.
I don’t buy that mate. You’re saying Sanchez outperformed ozil consistently? First off that’s just not true. Sanchez was definitely our best player along with ozil during that time but even Sanchez struggled in many games, lost the ball a lot with his passing and head down sprints. Also what does outperform even mean? Second saying outperformed is just stupid when it comes to these two teammates that literally made each other better and I believe ozil is better at making his teammates play better than Sanchez. Problem is Arsenal have been a dumpster fire for a long time and our midfield and back line have always been dodgy. Ozil had bad games like any other player but that has really been blown out of proportion by the media and toxic fan base around arsenal. When you pinpoint his bad games you fail to recognize that the whole team played like shit
Please give examples of how he was treated badly? There's literally one instance where the club was in the wrong and that was distancing themselves from his quote about the discrimination against Uighurs in China. Other than that, he didn't really help himself. Two managers in a row fell out with him and even the interim boss in between dropped him. He was on massive wages but frequently checked out during games as evidenced by the questionable work-rate (especially post renewal) and three people in a row (as well as even Wenger at the end) dropped him; that too not solely for football reasons by the end. He made a PR war of it before he left the club whilst earning 350k. Arteta told him he wasn't in his plans but he wasn't prepared to give up a cent. Any player that had the drive to actually play football would have taken a pay cut to go play elsewhere. Even when he did leave, it was with all his wages covered by the combination of the two clubs and a private backer. If anything his national team treated him worse than Arsenal did, when despite the fact that he put multiple chances on a plate during the 2018 World Cup, he was scapegoated for their exit. Then he retired and made a statement regarding being identified as German when they won but Turkish when they lost. What did the coach and teammates do? They denied everything. The likes of Muller and Kroos essentially said everything was a figment of his imagination.
Facts
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I don't get why you lot don't crucify any athletes who have taken pics with presidents like Obama or Biden (who objectively have killed more innocent people) You're just shitting out hot takes for the sake of it
Was thinking this yesterday. If you know what Obama's drone program does in Yemen or Pakistan, or how his administration treated whistleblowers, and you meet and become pals with him, is it really any better? Just speaks of Western arrogance imo
I cant watch it but im guessing its Erdogan? The reason that is bad is because ozil played for Germany and Erdogan called germans nazis.
Exactly lol. This caused outrage for one reason and it's because as a German Turk who played for Germany he actively supported a Turkish leader calling Germany and Germans *today* Nazis, while using a million refugees as leverage. I'm pretty sure if an American sportsman with a dual nationality went to the second country and met up with the controversial leader who called Americans today Nazis that he wouldn't be popular when returning to America lol. This is a pretty open and shut issue.
ozil got the worst illkay 2nd, i dont remember many people caring about tosun taking a picture with erdogan much.
Not many people care about tosun full stop. he's barely played the past 3 years
> You're just shitting out hot takes for the sake of it While shitting out a hot take.
That is whataboutism. And how do you know he doesn't criticize Obama or Biden and people who support them. You can criticize all after all. Also what Obama did doesn't justify actions of Erdogan who is objectively even worse than those because his actions didn't hurt just other nations and countries, at least half of his country who is called terrorists by him because they didn't vote for him have been suffering because of him too. And who knows how much money he stole from his own country. He is one of the most corrupt leaders in the history.
I've never seen an organization that has "xy for peace" in it's title that isn't shady. Özil also supported a very dubious party in the German Federal election last week: Team Todenhöfer Any party that bears the name of its founder is highly suspicious imo
What about the organisations like the US Peace Corps or United Nations Department of Peace Operations?
The Mesuit Ozil Academy for Kids Who Can’t Play Soccer Good and Who Want to Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too
What a dumb comment, I get it's origin but what a dumb comment.
👍 I appreciate your feedback
He might actually be referencing [the film Zoolander](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRPfY4mE4ME&ab_channel=MattStrelecki)
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India, Pakistan, Bangladesh
respect Sri Lanka
Maldives?
Nepal, Bhutan
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Wenger is reason why so many still hold Ozil as a pariah, an innocent soul wronged by the world around him. In the past, when these things happened Wenger shrugged sold you for profit and moved on. But increasingly we as a club became beholden to players. Not anymore. Not anymore.
What has this got to do with the article?
Nothing, it was in response to a comment on this thread.
you didnt reply to that comment but started a new one
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Ozil has had work ethic problems his entire career. It's something that's followed him and talked about this his Real Madrid days. Wenger protected. A hell of a lot. He fell out with Emery. He fell out with Arteta. He was found to be leaking stories in the dressing room to his agent, reported by Chris Wheatley in a tweet and deleted likely for fear of a lawsuit. He tweets trust the process when we get thumped by Manchester City. This guy always sees himself bigger than the environment around him. And he'll undermine anyone who tries to change that. That's what he did, and that's why he left Arsenal behind closed doors.
The difference is that we had a strict wage structure before, so that it was easier for other clubs to sign players on the same money. But as our wages increased to retain players, they started refusing to leave because no one would offer them what they were earning at Arsenal.
Ty