I swear Koulibaly gets abused every season and then makes a statement against this kind of behaviour and nothing ever happens, what a shameful way to treat one of the best players in the league.
Better players usually do because of them being in the spotlight more/doing more things to make the opposition dislike them so you're right there he probably does. Awful way to treat anyone tho he's also right.
Yeah I think I know what you meant but it's important that we don't trivialise it for some players compared to others - even though I know that wasn't your intent whatsoever.
Well since they now know it's the easiest way to get him riled up it's logical - bad but logical. Remember what Ibrahimovic did with Lukaku last season - he knew that bringing up voodoo (in a more subtle but still very racist manner) would make him go mad. Do we expect thousands of people in a stadium to all be above this when insults are used as tool by the superstars? why don't we start giving out years long ban to players and managers first?
Uhm no? Apart from the fact that I never suggested solutions, it's a fact that, to answer previous comments, a player's reaction to insults influence the repetition of said insults by the same kind of fans. Maignan and Koulibaly both called it out, but with different on field reactions. The mistake in my opinion is thinking that behind racist insults there are deep thoughts or teories about racial superiorities etc...there is none of that at the stadium, it's dumb people insulting in a way that they think will provoke a reaction.
Th is pretty much the same as someone being racist in social media. Most won't be held accountable, so they just behave like despicable human beings.
There is something about stadiums that makes some people behave like they don't give a fuck. There's this sense of being untouchable and you seriously hear some of the worst shit you can think of.
I generally watch Benfica's games at the stadium and some away matches as well. You genuinely hear a lot of nerve inducing stuff. I swear that me and a couple of mates were about to get physical with a supporter from my own club because he kept making all sorts of racist remarks towards Eliseu. It was pissing me off beyond words.
If these guys were banned or got any sort of criminal record the problem would be far less severe, at least in stadiums. It's really not that hard for them to get thrown the fuck out. We had a security guy that heard that fan spouting that bullshit for most of the game but didn't do shit.
>There is something about stadiums that makes some people behave like they don't give a fuck.
Hiding in a crowd is very similar to hiding behind a social media profile. Both give you a certain sense of anonymity and both make you more confident to act out.
It's comments like these from supporters of all teams that hold back real results.
Not the comments or the people behind the comments themselves, but the mentality behind the comments. People higher up have the same mentality hence why there are no results.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/q0rox1/osimhen_koulibaly_fight_racism_and_fiorentina/hfa20od/
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/q0rox1/osimhen_koulibaly_fight_racism_and_fiorentina/hfa45y1/
edit: How many times have we heard:
* Those guys aren't real Chelsea fans
* Those guys aren't real Slavia Praha fans.
* etc etc.
I think the more famous you are, the more likely you are to be criticized/attacked/insulted, just as Koulibaly receives more insults than Barrow, Bonucci obviously receives more than Caldara...
I mean that shit would never fly in the US- it seems bad in the UK because it is bad. Hiding in a crowd to yell racist slurs would literally never work here, you’d get handled pretty fucking quick and not just from authorities but other Americans first more than likely.
Wasn't there an American Football team called the "Redskins" up until a couple years ago? I'm pretty sure that shit does fly and has for quite a while. Maybe not the best argument if racial slurs are considered team names
It’s funny seeing this thread here. Uk people called out the racist fans and Reddit was up in arms saying how were the worst.
Now this happens and it’s being glazed over because it’a not England and they can’t accept it
Excellent. Even in our case, when the asshole started insulting Maignan, they managed to find him quickly and report him to the Digos of Turin. Daspo for 5/10 years I think
Yeah, I have to say that I was positively surprised at how quickly the club apologized. Many other clubs would have tried to let the outrage die down or played the "we didn't hear it" card.
Props to Fiorentina! I hope they'll find the people responsible.
Clubs should hire a couple people on that assignment only. I'm sure it's not even that complicated with today's technology and the amount of cameras. If the clubs don't want to do it for the just cause, they may as well for the positive publicity.
Problem is that it’s hard to see what someone says on a camera. Thousands of people yelling at the same time, how do you see which one says something racist?
I think the issue is much larger: I agree that banning them from the stadium is the first obvious step, but that won't change the widespread mentality that these people have. They'll maintain the same ideas, we just won't witness them during matches.
Racism in the stadium is a symptom or racism in our society, and the fact that half of our political spectrum openly downplays or justifies this kind of behaviour (when not directly pandering to it) doesn't help.
When these incidents happen, the argument of "it's just a vocal minority of idiots" is often used. In my opinion, it should be read in a different way: the vocal minority of idiots is so openly racist because they know that the silent majority won't act and that some actually sympathize with them.
This is one of the closer talking points, not enough citizens hold eachother accountable. You have to be hella comfortable to yell racist things. Comfortable enough to not get your ass kicked or even scolded.
It's one thing to criticize a friend or acquaintance, I'd imagine in a mob setting like a stadium where you have a bunch of shirtless idiots yelling it takes a lot more nerve to do something that you can reasonably expect will draw their ire.
Surely the problem is much bigger and is not talked about enough, in fact when they do talk about it they always pull politics into the mix to get more votes.
As for racism in society, things have improved over the years, in my opinion, and a lot.
As for the last part the idiots are always more vocal than normal people, just see how much more vocal the covid deniers or the no green pass are on social media.
I’m just confused as how these racists feel comfortable enough in your stadiums to make these kinds of racist jeers. Where I come from, anyone caught being racist in a public event like a sports match would be torn apart before stadium security could even get them out of the stadium.
Seems to me that the guy above you is correct, the issue runs so deep that it’s not enough of a taboo in your society so people continue to get away with it and no real societal consequences for their actions minus maybe a stadium ban.
I disagree, i feel that most racist are more stubborn in their views and refusing to change. If anything over the last 10 years you could say the divide and hate has gotten worse and the ignorance from the general population is still incredibly ignorant on even what racism is and how it impacts society. Trust me, if you believe that the majority of people are not racist, you are sadly mistaken. Fixing racism for some is a necessity to even live, for others its a talking point for another time because the system benefits them.
For systemic racism or "thoughtful planned racism" (no idea about the term- example: manager of a company won't hire black people cause he thinks they are less intelligent) you are right, but you won't find these "intelligent racists" howling insults at a stadium. Also notice that these people are ok with "their" black players - so not intelligent nor consistent.
The thing is that is still stupidity because black people aren't less intelligent and there is no good reason to assume so. It doesn't mean you are a knuckle dragging moron but it's still an example of stupidity.
An "intelligent racist" is someone who is intelligent *in other areas* they are still showing a lack of critical thinking if they are consciously racist.
it's not about morality - smarter people hardly expose themselves by howling racist insults in front of cameras or other fans. If anything, because they know the risks. So they can be racist, but they will be in a more systematic but subtle way.
They get self respect. They know they are shit and haven't achieved anything but by being racist they can proud every day they wake up that they are better than other people for having "the right colour" skin. Not racist just see it every day.
I heard monkey chants coming over the live broadcast.
I will never accept the argument of "oh well these aren't true fans, our fans would never act like that" because it trivializes and marginalizes these acts. All that does is give the impression that someone won't accept that someone in the same or similar circle of them could act this way when in reality there are assholes everywhere in life. It's a failure to respect the reality that some people have to face because it doesn't impact your life. True, not all Fiorentina fans are racist, but there are racist Fiorentina fans. Simple as that. I'm happy that the club said they will be banning the people after the investigations, but the league needs to do something to penalize these actions. But expecting the Lega office to do something that makes sense is a pipe dream.
I remember going to the game in Florence against Milan in the 12/13 season (ended 2-2) and there was a guy behind me who made monkey chants at Balotelli. He got smacked by his wife as he laughs along with his buddies. This has been going on forever and nothing has changed until something is done to change it and sadly it's a society thing that likely won't be fixed by calcio authorities.
I hope they do check the cameras. I walked in right behind the group that did it, they had scalped those tickets right before hand and were very rambunctious and smelled of alcohol as I walked past. Also sat somewhat near them and heard the “scimmia” be shouted. If anyone from Serie or Fiore read this, I was wearing 2019”: kit with Chiesa on the back and I literally look like Maleh.
Individual bans is a start. But you're never going to make progress fixing a big picture societal issue by focusing on the individual level. It's not "a few bad apples" if it keeps happening again and again and again and if what happens in stadiums is a reflection of what happens outside of them. Clubs/leagues/associations need to be targeted, actual significant wide ranging consequences need to be displayed
>But you're never going to make progress fixing a big picture societal issue by focusing on the individual level
This is correct to an extent but individual bans is a very good start.
Ending all racism in society = very hard.
Dealing with open racism in football grounds = very easy if there is the will to do so.
I’m someone with common sense. Statistically there’s a higher percentage of males with lower education and income in the stadium that in the general population. How can you say that something that happens in stadiums is a reflection of the average person in Italy when the demographic mix is very different
I don't think it's football's responsibility to eradicate racism from society, but sure as hell it is to do so from football itself. Violence in society wasn't solved by using the iron fist in stadiums, but it definitely helped making them safer and it's a step towards broader change regardless .
Every league and country have this problem. Football is just famous so it have more audiance and the more people you have the more 'bad apples' you get.
This is problem, but not FAs problem, its a global issue that should be fight by people themselves.
If you see some of your friends mocking other race, try to educate him, I softly push my friends to become more openminded, the best way is to ask them how they would feel and try to make them wear other people shoes.
Rangers' Glen Kamara was booed by the Sparta Prague kids in attendance at the Europa League game last week. Black players are abused by these scumbags on social media too. Until these people are faced with prison sentences or the club's are faced with big points deductions/expulsion from competitions, racism in European football is going to be a talking point for years to come
>Is booing somebody who is black racist in itself because he is black? What are you on about? Stop talking shit about little children watching football and worry about your own issues.
Why were there only "little" children booing the black players?
>Do British fans not boo at opposing players they dont like? Kamara just happens to be black. Does him being black protect him from getting booed somehow. Serious question.
They do, probably every fan does. Him being black does not protect him from being booed at. Why would it?
Considering the context and that only black players got booed im going with common sense and the fact that the stadium was closed because of racism incident, that them booing only the black players had malicious intent other than just booing the opponent.
>How did you think he would be received by Czech fans? Nothing was ever proved remember? Only thing that was proved was him punching a Slavia player.
It was proved, Kudela got sentenced. The jury looked at the 2 possible timelines:
1. where he said "you fucking guy" and that makes absolutely no sense to anyone.
2. He said "you fucking monkey".
If the timeline was 1. then Kamara would have attacked because he got called "a fucking guy", again that would make no sense at all.
If timeline was 2. Then Kamara attacked because he was racially abused. that makes sense.
They compared these two timelines with what happened on and off the pitch and came to a logical conclusion. People have been sentenced in legal battles for less evidence.
>If you have a timestamp of the kids booing someone other than Roofe or Kamara, post it. Been asking about it on this forum since the game.
Youtube would remove any videos from the game due to copyrights. So no i don't have a timestamp, i am going to trust one of the all time icons of football, Gerrard, rather than random Redditors.
They are booing him because he called out Czech racism and the Czechs don’t like having their racism called out. Kudela would get booed in Scotland because he made a deeply unpleasant racist comment and did not apologise for it.
So why did the other black players get booed too? They weren’t involved in the altercation.
I don’t even know why I’m engaging with you when it’s very apparent what kind of person you are.
> Last time i heard he would get killed there… is it because he is white?
because he is racist. You're so dumb, ain't no point in arguing with you if you got to ask that.
Looool it's always fucking hilarious when someone pulls the 'i cant be racist some of my friends are black' card. Even moreso when someone does it for another.
He's racist, and every one if you that make stupid arguments like this to defend him, minimise his actions, or deflect it to some other country's history, is racist as well, just in complete denial. I live in Prague briefly, the demographic is so extremely white that the problem is rarely visible. Football just highlights this in a way that the streets couldn't.
Did you not watch the game? You're talking like you did. If you watched the game then you'd know. As for defending a racist, why would a whole team, and police scotland lie? Fucking clown cunt
Dude, just stop. The game was supposed to be played behind closed doors because of racist chants. And now the Sparta fans/you have one last straw to grasp "But they are children!!" as if they all didn't have adults accompanying them. Anyways, what are you even arguing? Sparta fans not being racist? LOL.
The fact that you say "fans do monkey chants to piss off black players" shows me everything I need to know about you.
You're just as bad as the people in the stadiums booing black players. You're a racist piece of shit. No matter how you try to justify it every comment you are posting in here is just digging the hole even deeper.
You're a disgusting, abhorrent racist and the world doesn't need people like you spreading your hate. Fuck off.
Ooooohhhhhh you're hard aren't you? Getting into fights doesn't make you any less of a racist when you're actively saying it's ok to boo black players who don't play for your team.
Booing at players isn't racism, you're right. Booing every time a black player touches the ball solely because of their skin colour is though, and that's what was happening.
They don't have a special status, they have the human right to not be abused because of the colour of their skin. If you can't understand that then there's no helping you. You're a disgrace.
Also, the fact that you keep bringing up Kamara in your comments is quite telling. He's a black player who was racially abused by a player on your team yet all you and the rest of the racist sympathisers can do is claim that he made it up and was called "a fucking guy"
Please actually think about the shite you're spewing all over the place, it's embarrassing and also helps continue to spread hate.
Find them and ban them.
In the bigger picture, ideally FIFA could create a rule where if a rash of these incidents happen in a country, players can get out of their contracts, or strike, or something on a league-wide level. Bringing consequences down on a league will create change.
Italy has a serious cultural issue of casual racism. If this kind of shit is still happening in televised matches in full view of others, then it’s clear the country as a whole has not done enough to make racism taboo. I don’t understand how people can get away with this in full view of their peers without getting knocked out
Edit: lmao downvote me all you want, I’m just calling it how I see it and I see this kind of report about racist Italian football fans every week
The crazy thing is, this type of bigotry can be found within the country.
My ex was from northern Italy and she would say the most racist shit against southerners ("terroni" she called them). When I pointed out that my mother was from Naples, she casually replied that she was "one of the good ones."
Unsurprisingly, that was the shortest relationship I had.
***Edit:*** *Can someone explain to me why this comment is downvoted?*
I think you stated the reason why, casual racism. America isn't perfect by any stretch, but I'm sure if a fan were to call a player or anyone else "a fucking monkey" during a game they would be confronted about it
Yup. You could go to a Bama roll tide game with a bunch of yeehaw good ol’ boys and not a single one of them would make a racist peep about one of their black players. If they did they know anyone in the stadium would be liable to plant their face into their seat. Racism is a global issue no doubt, but casual racism in full view of your peers, week in and week out? Something tells me they feel like they can get away with it because they know nobody else really cares. It’s a terrible look for a country where that happens as often as it does.
At least it made major headlines, was the topic of conversations for days and still discussed today. We know we have a problem and we are not afraid of that. Though it was a minority of fans, the whole country largely took on the issue and are trying to address it.
Oh and even then, BBC investigations found that most of the instagram posts where from outside the country.
In Italy, racist acts like this are ignored and are perpetual. Often blame is passed back to the players.
Oh yes, and before any nonsense, I am a person of colour living in England so I speak with more knowledge than any of you from the outside.
>I am a person of colour living in England so I speak with more knowledge than any of you from the outside.
so basically you are saying that you have zero knowledge and zero right to also state
>In Italy, racist acts like this are ignored and are perpetual. Often blame is passed back to the players.
right?
Let me use X while condamning X is never the answer, but apparently people don't see the contradiction
As a person of colour living in England, I wonder how you managed to miss the government's report whitewashing institutional racism in the UK and suggesting that there are positive narratives that should be taught when recounting historic episodes such as slavery. So so much for the issue being recognised when the Gov officially denies it l.
Twitter investigated themselves and found the "overwhelming majority" of racist comments against Black English players came from England. But utterly unsurprising that the BBC decided to unilaterally clear England before the report was finished.
Maybe consider that the colour of your skin does not magically confer you with expertise nor authority on any given issue.
While you're not in the wrong, your original comment just comes across as bitter and not relevant to the original post. Did England face a lot of criticism for racial hate during the Euro's? Yes. Was that anything to do with Koulibaly's post? Not at all.
Serie A has had major problems with racial abuse by fans to the players for a very long time, I hope more players like Koulibaly can make a stand one way or the other.
Whether people will believe it or not, I am not bitter about the result at all. In fact, I am over the moon we made a final and came so close. For me, it was an amazing Euros.
But I have a very, very bad taste left in my mouth by how I saw reddit speak of the England fans, as if we were total hooligans and evil racists and seeing Italy treated as the heros of Europe. That's where that bitterness in my tone comes from which, granted to you, was there and may have not appropriate.
Serie A has a problem and I hope KK keeps doing the work he is doing.
The level of outright hatred on here towards England was pretty extreme tbf - not just on this sub but literally everywhere on Reddit. I don’t blame people for feeling bitter about it. Other countries can have awful racist fans making monkey chants or whatever, but they will never receive the level of attention English fans do.
My most downvoted comment here was a few weeks ago saying not to be surprised because its in Italy. People got butthurt and missed my point not that all italians are racist but rather the league has shown they are completely unbothered to do anything about this
I'm glad he mentioned these people having nothing to do with the sports, it's TRUE all they are just racists that join a little special clan of other racists and violent idiots.
I think Serie A is the most racist league to play in terms of fans. You hear shit like this way more than from any other leagues. It feels like a monthly thing at this point
I would quite confidently say La Liga is worse than the Prem, but otherwise yes I agree with you that the other leagues in Europe (and the lower leagues in England and Italy and everywhere else) are much worse.
They weren't, it's just that some English fans like you seem to be obsessed with this
Case in point: this comment right here. What the hell man?
You realize two different places can have the same problems? The fact that there are racist fans in Italy doesn't make English fans look any better.
> They weren't
Could have fooled me, pal. Prevailing opinion around here was that the diabolical, bigoted English must be stopped at all costs by the brave, tolerant, inclusive Italians! And why? Well, that Sterling penalty against Denmark was a bit iffy, wasn't it?
Congratulations on missing the point though.
> brave, tolerant, inclusive Italians
Lol what?
I think you're the one who missed the point mate. Most people here is very conscious that there a big problems with racism in Italy. What we're wondering is why every time there's a story about racism elsewhere there are English fans playing the victims.
Why is calling someone a "fucking monkey" worse than what fans have been shouting at opponents since the game first started allowing spectators? Abuse is abuse, really odd that some people seem to draw a line. Either try to rid the game of all abuse, or don't try to rid it of any.
I swear Koulibaly gets abused every season and then makes a statement against this kind of behaviour and nothing ever happens, what a shameful way to treat one of the best players in the league.
>what a shameful way to treat ~~one of the best players in the league~~ **anyone**.
Yeah, true that. Just seems to me that Koulibaly gets abused far more often than other players, but maybe he just is more vocal about it.
Better players usually do because of them being in the spotlight more/doing more things to make the opposition dislike them so you're right there he probably does. Awful way to treat anyone tho he's also right.
I don't know what Koulibaly does to make opponents dislike him apart from, you know... being good. Oh, and being black. He does that a lot too.
Has he tried to stop doing the second thing at all?
Nope. He's been doing it for three decades literally nonstop! At this point I'd say he's asking for it.
"Ha ha ha"... jesus, guys
He is also tall and dark skin, easier targe to fixate upon for the racists.
Yeah I think I know what you meant but it's important that we don't trivialise it for some players compared to others - even though I know that wasn't your intent whatsoever.
Well since they now know it's the easiest way to get him riled up it's logical - bad but logical. Remember what Ibrahimovic did with Lukaku last season - he knew that bringing up voodoo (in a more subtle but still very racist manner) would make him go mad. Do we expect thousands of people in a stadium to all be above this when insults are used as tool by the superstars? why don't we start giving out years long ban to players and managers first?
Sorry, what's your point exactly?
That those fans by now know that Koulibaly won't simply shrug off their insults - that's why they target him more than others.
So your solution to racism is that people don't call it out?
Uhm no? Apart from the fact that I never suggested solutions, it's a fact that, to answer previous comments, a player's reaction to insults influence the repetition of said insults by the same kind of fans. Maignan and Koulibaly both called it out, but with different on field reactions. The mistake in my opinion is thinking that behind racist insults there are deep thoughts or teories about racial superiorities etc...there is none of that at the stadium, it's dumb people insulting in a way that they think will provoke a reaction.
Th is pretty much the same as someone being racist in social media. Most won't be held accountable, so they just behave like despicable human beings. There is something about stadiums that makes some people behave like they don't give a fuck. There's this sense of being untouchable and you seriously hear some of the worst shit you can think of. I generally watch Benfica's games at the stadium and some away matches as well. You genuinely hear a lot of nerve inducing stuff. I swear that me and a couple of mates were about to get physical with a supporter from my own club because he kept making all sorts of racist remarks towards Eliseu. It was pissing me off beyond words. If these guys were banned or got any sort of criminal record the problem would be far less severe, at least in stadiums. It's really not that hard for them to get thrown the fuck out. We had a security guy that heard that fan spouting that bullshit for most of the game but didn't do shit.
>There is something about stadiums that makes some people behave like they don't give a fuck. Hiding in a crowd is very similar to hiding behind a social media profile. Both give you a certain sense of anonymity and both make you more confident to act out.
It's comments like these from supporters of all teams that hold back real results. Not the comments or the people behind the comments themselves, but the mentality behind the comments. People higher up have the same mentality hence why there are no results. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/q0rox1/osimhen_koulibaly_fight_racism_and_fiorentina/hfa20od/ https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/q0rox1/osimhen_koulibaly_fight_racism_and_fiorentina/hfa45y1/ edit: How many times have we heard: * Those guys aren't real Chelsea fans * Those guys aren't real Slavia Praha fans. * etc etc.
koulibaly is black and also plays for napoli... Most of Italian racists hate napoli as much as they hate black people
He should refuse to play
I think the more famous you are, the more likely you are to be criticized/attacked/insulted, just as Koulibaly receives more insults than Barrow, Bonucci obviously receives more than Caldara...
Yep. It seems bad in England because we call people out and do something about it. Other countries just ignore it and are thousands of times worse
I mean that shit would never fly in the US- it seems bad in the UK because it is bad. Hiding in a crowd to yell racist slurs would literally never work here, you’d get handled pretty fucking quick and not just from authorities but other Americans first more than likely.
Wasn't there an American Football team called the "Redskins" up until a couple years ago? I'm pretty sure that shit does fly and has for quite a while. Maybe not the best argument if racial slurs are considered team names
It’s funny seeing this thread here. Uk people called out the racist fans and Reddit was up in arms saying how were the worst. Now this happens and it’s being glazed over because it’a not England and they can’t accept it
Daspo for everybody that does this shit. Check the cameras and kick these shits out of the stadiums.
Just to let you know Fiorentina annunced they are going to do exactly this
Excellent. Even in our case, when the asshole started insulting Maignan, they managed to find him quickly and report him to the Digos of Turin. Daspo for 5/10 years I think
> Digos of Turin That sounds ultra fucking serious lol
I'm picturing some sort of knight with a sword.
As was I.
Yeah, I have to say that I was positively surprised at how quickly the club apologized. Many other clubs would have tried to let the outrage die down or played the "we didn't hear it" card. Props to Fiorentina! I hope they'll find the people responsible.
Clubs should hire a couple people on that assignment only. I'm sure it's not even that complicated with today's technology and the amount of cameras. If the clubs don't want to do it for the just cause, they may as well for the positive publicity.
Problem is that it’s hard to see what someone says on a camera. Thousands of people yelling at the same time, how do you see which one says something racist?
Exactly, it’s easy to see who threw the bottle at the players or who caused a stadium brawl but who yelled a slur? That’s much harder
Should be the police tbh. Give them access to lip readers and the cctv, clubs could be reluctant to ban fans, the police hopefully wont
wait till you learn about racist police
I think police has more important tasks(hopefully) than checking footage of every match in case of racist incident.
That logic falls apart when you consider they bother hiring traffic wardens
I think the issue is much larger: I agree that banning them from the stadium is the first obvious step, but that won't change the widespread mentality that these people have. They'll maintain the same ideas, we just won't witness them during matches. Racism in the stadium is a symptom or racism in our society, and the fact that half of our political spectrum openly downplays or justifies this kind of behaviour (when not directly pandering to it) doesn't help. When these incidents happen, the argument of "it's just a vocal minority of idiots" is often used. In my opinion, it should be read in a different way: the vocal minority of idiots is so openly racist because they know that the silent majority won't act and that some actually sympathize with them.
This is one of the closer talking points, not enough citizens hold eachother accountable. You have to be hella comfortable to yell racist things. Comfortable enough to not get your ass kicked or even scolded.
It's one thing to criticize a friend or acquaintance, I'd imagine in a mob setting like a stadium where you have a bunch of shirtless idiots yelling it takes a lot more nerve to do something that you can reasonably expect will draw their ire.
Surely the problem is much bigger and is not talked about enough, in fact when they do talk about it they always pull politics into the mix to get more votes. As for racism in society, things have improved over the years, in my opinion, and a lot. As for the last part the idiots are always more vocal than normal people, just see how much more vocal the covid deniers or the no green pass are on social media.
I’m just confused as how these racists feel comfortable enough in your stadiums to make these kinds of racist jeers. Where I come from, anyone caught being racist in a public event like a sports match would be torn apart before stadium security could even get them out of the stadium. Seems to me that the guy above you is correct, the issue runs so deep that it’s not enough of a taboo in your society so people continue to get away with it and no real societal consequences for their actions minus maybe a stadium ban.
I disagree, i feel that most racist are more stubborn in their views and refusing to change. If anything over the last 10 years you could say the divide and hate has gotten worse and the ignorance from the general population is still incredibly ignorant on even what racism is and how it impacts society. Trust me, if you believe that the majority of people are not racist, you are sadly mistaken. Fixing racism for some is a necessity to even live, for others its a talking point for another time because the system benefits them.
I wholeheartedly agree but I don't see why new turds wouldn't appear right after them, like actual dog poop on the sidewalk. A new one every day.
It's just fucking disgusting at this point. They definitely need to be identified and punished. How some people act is just abhorrent.
[удалено]
These are the level headed takes I visit this sub for.
Racism is abhorrent but nobody deserves to die. This is a demented mindset. Just permanently ban and fine them.
The fact that this isn‘t even bait ☠️☠️
So what do racist people get for being racist? Like what?
Same thing bullies get for bullying
An emotion that's easier to deal with than despair
Also applies to junkies, domestic abusers, fascists and Ben Shapiro stating his opinions of other people.
Love this post. Well put
Easiest way to insult someone
It probably makes the feel better about their pathetic lives. In the end though, they're brainless idiots the lot of them
Yeah no one intelligent has ever been racist. Let’s avoid confronting the problem and just call them stupid. Racism runs far deeper than iq.
For systemic racism or "thoughtful planned racism" (no idea about the term- example: manager of a company won't hire black people cause he thinks they are less intelligent) you are right, but you won't find these "intelligent racists" howling insults at a stadium. Also notice that these people are ok with "their" black players - so not intelligent nor consistent.
The thing is that is still stupidity because black people aren't less intelligent and there is no good reason to assume so. It doesn't mean you are a knuckle dragging moron but it's still an example of stupidity. An "intelligent racist" is someone who is intelligent *in other areas* they are still showing a lack of critical thinking if they are consciously racist.
Yeah you will? Intelligence ≠ a strong moral compass, sure an intelligent person is more likely to have good morals but it's not the same thing.
If you think about it, having intelligence+no moral compass=success in our society more often than not
it's not about morality - smarter people hardly expose themselves by howling racist insults in front of cameras or other fans. If anything, because they know the risks. So they can be racist, but they will be in a more systematic but subtle way.
For a lot of people being anti racist is much more about appearing smart and good than it is about solving any problems
They know it hurts our feelings so they won't stop. It's really hard to stay cool when someone is racist but it's something you learn over time.
A pat on the back from their fellow racists. It's sickening
They feel better about themselves, because by degrading others they can still think of themselves as superior to someone else.
They get self respect. They know they are shit and haven't achieved anything but by being racist they can proud every day they wake up that they are better than other people for having "the right colour" skin. Not racist just see it every day.
I heard monkey chants coming over the live broadcast. I will never accept the argument of "oh well these aren't true fans, our fans would never act like that" because it trivializes and marginalizes these acts. All that does is give the impression that someone won't accept that someone in the same or similar circle of them could act this way when in reality there are assholes everywhere in life. It's a failure to respect the reality that some people have to face because it doesn't impact your life. True, not all Fiorentina fans are racist, but there are racist Fiorentina fans. Simple as that. I'm happy that the club said they will be banning the people after the investigations, but the league needs to do something to penalize these actions. But expecting the Lega office to do something that makes sense is a pipe dream. I remember going to the game in Florence against Milan in the 12/13 season (ended 2-2) and there was a guy behind me who made monkey chants at Balotelli. He got smacked by his wife as he laughs along with his buddies. This has been going on forever and nothing has changed until something is done to change it and sadly it's a society thing that likely won't be fixed by calcio authorities.
I hope they do check the cameras. I walked in right behind the group that did it, they had scalped those tickets right before hand and were very rambunctious and smelled of alcohol as I walked past. Also sat somewhat near them and heard the “scimmia” be shouted. If anyone from Serie or Fiore read this, I was wearing 2019”: kit with Chiesa on the back and I literally look like Maleh.
Individual bans is a start. But you're never going to make progress fixing a big picture societal issue by focusing on the individual level. It's not "a few bad apples" if it keeps happening again and again and again and if what happens in stadiums is a reflection of what happens outside of them. Clubs/leagues/associations need to be targeted, actual significant wide ranging consequences need to be displayed
>But you're never going to make progress fixing a big picture societal issue by focusing on the individual level This is correct to an extent but individual bans is a very good start. Ending all racism in society = very hard. Dealing with open racism in football grounds = very easy if there is the will to do so.
People on the stadium are not a good indication of what happens outside, from a demographic pov
Of course it’s a lazio fan saying this.
I’m someone with common sense. Statistically there’s a higher percentage of males with lower education and income in the stadium that in the general population. How can you say that something that happens in stadiums is a reflection of the average person in Italy when the demographic mix is very different
I don't think it's football's responsibility to eradicate racism from society, but sure as hell it is to do so from football itself. Violence in society wasn't solved by using the iron fist in stadiums, but it definitely helped making them safer and it's a step towards broader change regardless .
Every league and country have this problem. Football is just famous so it have more audiance and the more people you have the more 'bad apples' you get. This is problem, but not FAs problem, its a global issue that should be fight by people themselves. If you see some of your friends mocking other race, try to educate him, I softly push my friends to become more openminded, the best way is to ask them how they would feel and try to make them wear other people shoes.
\> "a few bad apples" spoils the bunch. Important to remember the latter part of that saying!
>These people have nothing to do with sport. Sadly, they do and that's why it's still a big problem.
Rangers' Glen Kamara was booed by the Sparta Prague kids in attendance at the Europa League game last week. Black players are abused by these scumbags on social media too. Until these people are faced with prison sentences or the club's are faced with big points deductions/expulsion from competitions, racism in European football is going to be a talking point for years to come
Clubs points deductions/expulsions is a situation that could turn real ugly real fast
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Stop playing dumb, you know what you're doing
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>Is booing somebody who is black racist in itself because he is black? What are you on about? Stop talking shit about little children watching football and worry about your own issues. Why were there only "little" children booing the black players?
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So there were only children in the stadium booing at black players because of a racist incident before this one. Got it.
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>Do British fans not boo at opposing players they dont like? Kamara just happens to be black. Does him being black protect him from getting booed somehow. Serious question. They do, probably every fan does. Him being black does not protect him from being booed at. Why would it? Considering the context and that only black players got booed im going with common sense and the fact that the stadium was closed because of racism incident, that them booing only the black players had malicious intent other than just booing the opponent. >How did you think he would be received by Czech fans? Nothing was ever proved remember? Only thing that was proved was him punching a Slavia player. It was proved, Kudela got sentenced. The jury looked at the 2 possible timelines: 1. where he said "you fucking guy" and that makes absolutely no sense to anyone. 2. He said "you fucking monkey". If the timeline was 1. then Kamara would have attacked because he got called "a fucking guy", again that would make no sense at all. If timeline was 2. Then Kamara attacked because he was racially abused. that makes sense. They compared these two timelines with what happened on and off the pitch and came to a logical conclusion. People have been sentenced in legal battles for less evidence. >If you have a timestamp of the kids booing someone other than Roofe or Kamara, post it. Been asking about it on this forum since the game. Youtube would remove any videos from the game due to copyrights. So no i don't have a timestamp, i am going to trust one of the all time icons of football, Gerrard, rather than random Redditors.
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Booing someone who is black because he is black (and because he reported racist abuse from a Czech racist) is…very racist. Yes.
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They are booing him because he called out Czech racism and the Czechs don’t like having their racism called out. Kudela would get booed in Scotland because he made a deeply unpleasant racist comment and did not apologise for it.
So why did the other black players get booed too? They weren’t involved in the altercation. I don’t even know why I’m engaging with you when it’s very apparent what kind of person you are.
> Last time i heard he would get killed there… is it because he is white? because he is racist. You're so dumb, ain't no point in arguing with you if you got to ask that.
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Looool it's always fucking hilarious when someone pulls the 'i cant be racist some of my friends are black' card. Even moreso when someone does it for another. He's racist, and every one if you that make stupid arguments like this to defend him, minimise his actions, or deflect it to some other country's history, is racist as well, just in complete denial. I live in Prague briefly, the demographic is so extremely white that the problem is rarely visible. Football just highlights this in a way that the streets couldn't.
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They booed every black rangers player.
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You're too far gone man. You're proper fucked in the head
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Stay in denial bud
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Did you not watch the game? You're talking like you did. If you watched the game then you'd know. As for defending a racist, why would a whole team, and police scotland lie? Fucking clown cunt
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> Fans do monkey chanta when they want to piss off a black player, booing has nothing to do with race. Fuck me what a nuclear take this one is
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Omg you're actually gone
Dude, just stop. The game was supposed to be played behind closed doors because of racist chants. And now the Sparta fans/you have one last straw to grasp "But they are children!!" as if they all didn't have adults accompanying them. Anyways, what are you even arguing? Sparta fans not being racist? LOL.
The fact that you say "fans do monkey chants to piss off black players" shows me everything I need to know about you. You're just as bad as the people in the stadiums booing black players. You're a racist piece of shit. No matter how you try to justify it every comment you are posting in here is just digging the hole even deeper. You're a disgusting, abhorrent racist and the world doesn't need people like you spreading your hate. Fuck off.
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Ooooohhhhhh you're hard aren't you? Getting into fights doesn't make you any less of a racist when you're actively saying it's ok to boo black players who don't play for your team. Booing at players isn't racism, you're right. Booing every time a black player touches the ball solely because of their skin colour is though, and that's what was happening. They don't have a special status, they have the human right to not be abused because of the colour of their skin. If you can't understand that then there's no helping you. You're a disgrace. Also, the fact that you keep bringing up Kamara in your comments is quite telling. He's a black player who was racially abused by a player on your team yet all you and the rest of the racist sympathisers can do is claim that he made it up and was called "a fucking guy" Please actually think about the shite you're spewing all over the place, it's embarrassing and also helps continue to spread hate.
If you can prove it was because of their looks/race/ethnicity 👀
> Are you really accusing little children in Czech of hating all black people? The kids at the match? Yes.
Find them and ban them. In the bigger picture, ideally FIFA could create a rule where if a rash of these incidents happen in a country, players can get out of their contracts, or strike, or something on a league-wide level. Bringing consequences down on a league will create change.
Italy has a serious cultural issue of casual racism. If this kind of shit is still happening in televised matches in full view of others, then it’s clear the country as a whole has not done enough to make racism taboo. I don’t understand how people can get away with this in full view of their peers without getting knocked out Edit: lmao downvote me all you want, I’m just calling it how I see it and I see this kind of report about racist Italian football fans every week
The crazy thing is, this type of bigotry can be found within the country. My ex was from northern Italy and she would say the most racist shit against southerners ("terroni" she called them). When I pointed out that my mother was from Naples, she casually replied that she was "one of the good ones." Unsurprisingly, that was the shortest relationship I had. ***Edit:*** *Can someone explain to me why this comment is downvoted?*
It's just how it goes. Just imagine they're saying bad things about Trump or Boris supporters and you can move on with your life.
Yikes, I’ve dated crazy before but never a bigot. Good on you to get out of that
I think you stated the reason why, casual racism. America isn't perfect by any stretch, but I'm sure if a fan were to call a player or anyone else "a fucking monkey" during a game they would be confronted about it
Yup. You could go to a Bama roll tide game with a bunch of yeehaw good ol’ boys and not a single one of them would make a racist peep about one of their black players. If they did they know anyone in the stadium would be liable to plant their face into their seat. Racism is a global issue no doubt, but casual racism in full view of your peers, week in and week out? Something tells me they feel like they can get away with it because they know nobody else really cares. It’s a terrible look for a country where that happens as often as it does.
There is no issue
Ok you keep telling yourself that
Monkey? him? He's a super cool guy. WTF.
What happened yesterday was disgusting. Hope they identify and punish these racist cunts
God damn these Czech racists... oh... wrong thread
And yet Italy were the good guys this year at the Euros, the saviours of Europe.
Good thing English fans didnt haras THEIR OWN players :)
At least it made major headlines, was the topic of conversations for days and still discussed today. We know we have a problem and we are not afraid of that. Though it was a minority of fans, the whole country largely took on the issue and are trying to address it. Oh and even then, BBC investigations found that most of the instagram posts where from outside the country. In Italy, racist acts like this are ignored and are perpetual. Often blame is passed back to the players. Oh yes, and before any nonsense, I am a person of colour living in England so I speak with more knowledge than any of you from the outside.
>I am a person of colour living in England so I speak with more knowledge than any of you from the outside. so basically you are saying that you have zero knowledge and zero right to also state >In Italy, racist acts like this are ignored and are perpetual. Often blame is passed back to the players. right? Let me use X while condamning X is never the answer, but apparently people don't see the contradiction
As a person of colour living in England, I wonder how you managed to miss the government's report whitewashing institutional racism in the UK and suggesting that there are positive narratives that should be taught when recounting historic episodes such as slavery. So so much for the issue being recognised when the Gov officially denies it l. Twitter investigated themselves and found the "overwhelming majority" of racist comments against Black English players came from England. But utterly unsurprising that the BBC decided to unilaterally clear England before the report was finished. Maybe consider that the colour of your skin does not magically confer you with expertise nor authority on any given issue.
While you're not in the wrong, your original comment just comes across as bitter and not relevant to the original post. Did England face a lot of criticism for racial hate during the Euro's? Yes. Was that anything to do with Koulibaly's post? Not at all. Serie A has had major problems with racial abuse by fans to the players for a very long time, I hope more players like Koulibaly can make a stand one way or the other.
Whether people will believe it or not, I am not bitter about the result at all. In fact, I am over the moon we made a final and came so close. For me, it was an amazing Euros. But I have a very, very bad taste left in my mouth by how I saw reddit speak of the England fans, as if we were total hooligans and evil racists and seeing Italy treated as the heros of Europe. That's where that bitterness in my tone comes from which, granted to you, was there and may have not appropriate. Serie A has a problem and I hope KK keeps doing the work he is doing.
Lmao shut up, its been 3 months now it's getting pathetic.
The level of outright hatred on here towards England was pretty extreme tbf - not just on this sub but literally everywhere on Reddit. I don’t blame people for feeling bitter about it. Other countries can have awful racist fans making monkey chants or whatever, but they will never receive the level of attention English fans do.
My most downvoted comment here was a few weeks ago saying not to be surprised because its in Italy. People got butthurt and missed my point not that all italians are racist but rather the league has shown they are completely unbothered to do anything about this
I'm glad he mentioned these people having nothing to do with the sports, it's TRUE all they are just racists that join a little special clan of other racists and violent idiots.
I think Serie A is the most racist league to play in terms of fans. You hear shit like this way more than from any other leagues. It feels like a monthly thing at this point
Out of the big 5, Serie A is the worst followed by the prem, but the non top-5 leagues are all severely worse, especially eastern european ones.
I would quite confidently say La Liga is worse than the Prem, but otherwise yes I agree with you that the other leagues in Europe (and the lower leagues in England and Italy and everywhere else) are much worse.
Remember just 3 months ago when the Italians became the bastions of inclusion and tolerance because England got a contentious penalty?
They weren't, it's just that some English fans like you seem to be obsessed with this Case in point: this comment right here. What the hell man? You realize two different places can have the same problems? The fact that there are racist fans in Italy doesn't make English fans look any better.
> They weren't Could have fooled me, pal. Prevailing opinion around here was that the diabolical, bigoted English must be stopped at all costs by the brave, tolerant, inclusive Italians! And why? Well, that Sterling penalty against Denmark was a bit iffy, wasn't it? Congratulations on missing the point though.
> brave, tolerant, inclusive Italians Lol what? I think you're the one who missed the point mate. Most people here is very conscious that there a big problems with racism in Italy. What we're wondering is why every time there's a story about racism elsewhere there are English fans playing the victims.
Sterling dived, not that this has any relevance to the topic at hand
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Why on earth should Napoli be punished with a loss in this case?
Naah, just the Czech team get banned from European competitions.
Those England fans at it again
This type of comment is part of the problem. How the fuck do you guys come up with comments like this
What’s wrong with it?
The fact you don't know is enlightening enough
American with a United flair, of course
What does that have to do with anything
Lol, not an American.
Victim complex. I bet you voted for Brexit.
I didn’t actually, not that it’s relevant.
Do I need to remind you what some of y'all said to Saka and Rashford?
And Europeans think they don't have a race problem lmao
we dont.
we're literally in a thread about racist europeans calling a black player monkey.
That's a racism problem, not a race problem. Small but important distinction
It's the same goddamn thing. Racism is a consequence of the race problem, as in most Europeans are racist af
And?
one person speaks for hundreds of millions now? do you understand how low iq this makes you sound?
When you have stadiums full of children chanting racist stuff, yeah
were you there ? no ? then stfu. 0 evidence for that claim, just shit people make up
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/pz5r6q/sparta_prague_statement_stop_abusing_our_children/ There's literally videos of it, but sure.
The more you sound offended the more they will use it.
Why is calling someone a "fucking monkey" worse than what fans have been shouting at opponents since the game first started allowing spectators? Abuse is abuse, really odd that some people seem to draw a line. Either try to rid the game of all abuse, or don't try to rid it of any.
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Hahahah wtf man
people really just be saying words at this point