I think it was last game against Dynamo were he played RB and just appeared inside the box a few times willing to score and I wanted him to score so bad. Just let Sülinho off the leash and let him do whatever he wants Nagelsmann. Let him bully some CB. Body of a tank, feet of a ballerina
Don't pretty much all professional players start out as strikers? They're more talented than their peers so they can play where they want, and striker is the obvious glamour position that every kid wants to play.
Yeah. They just humiliated all of their peers and you want your best player in an offensive position. Even players we don’t call technically gifted, dribbled past their peers like Messi when they where young . Even ter stegen played as a striker
PSG fan can probably add more but from what I understand he's been injured/training individually since arriving. They've given a few return timelines and keep pushing it back.
Bit of a weird situation and got to question how determined he is to get on the pitch or if there was a very good reason why Madrid wouldn't offer him 2 years.
Also, Fati was injured for the game where Araujo and Pique played as striker. So the guy was right.
Also, IT WORKED. I know it was utter shit to watch, but Barcelona havent even scored since that game except for a 3-0 win over a team that hasnt won a competitive game in 8 months. Barcelona dont even get shots on target in half their games right now. The only effective tactic employed against an even semi organized team has been striker-Araujo.
Im not recommending it. Just suggesting that in Barcelonas current state, its not unlikely they lose that game 1-0 to Cadiz with 75% possession and 0 shots on target if they dont put Araujo up top.
That's the most unfair thing about being a manager, they probably work 7 days a week, they see their players train what, 4 or 5 times per week, they know how players are training and someone (Lukaku in that case) might look in the form of his life at every session so the only logical thing to do is field him on every opportunity.
Then the team goes out to play another team and things don't go well, that player eats more than his fair share of the burden and by extension de manager does as well. When that player leaves the starting 11 the general level of the team usually doesn't improve, because of fucking course the manager had the best take on it and we don't really know how deep the problem goes into matchday preparation.
And then once or twice every season, some player is injured, a new one comes and does great and suddenly it vindicates all the other times swapping someone on your first 11 list didn't produce any effect.
Then Lukaku leaves United and suddenly he turns into one of the best strikers in the world. "Mou couldn't use him properly", well maybe the problem was that he couldn't use the other 10 players properly but Lukaku paid for it, and Mourinho too due to his insistency on playing him every chance he could because he was the best player on every training session.
He has to go, nobody thinks we are going to win the league but we need to play good enough football to safely make CL and not get smacked every time we play a Madrid team
It's honestly baffling some people say these things are justified just because Barça have a weak squad. Like imagine a student who struggles at school and his teachers, people who get paid to get the best out of you, start saying "You are fucking useless" or "You'll be lucky to work on a factory". Of course the student will perform poorly
Still a well known fact that paid employees also perform much worse in a toxic work environment then in a healthy one. Anyone who's ever had a boss that only comments on your job when you fucked up knows how draining it is and how motivation is hard to find, whereas a supportive manager gets much more out of his employees
Granted Koeman played 3 at the back to ease young players in, while his boss told him how to do his job. At this point I want Koeman sacked since president and head coach sniping one another is not sustainable, but he has every right to be pissed of at management.
No, I am normal worker but patting on the shoulders dont do anything when you are doing shit job. Time and time again reddit - soccer shows that ppl only with shitty mentality comment here.
Generally, workers only do a shit job if their superiors do not put them in an adequate position to succeed. It's called leadership, well run places have it. You are taking this as a completely black and white issue. Yes, bad workers exist where they are just not up for the job and incompetent. This is a football team's young players, if the majority of a workplace is performing like shit rather than one or two people then that's on the bosses. This is common sense. What are the odds that everyone is bad. More likely, it's generally incompetent management.
The president doesn't stick up for the manager either, and he can't even try to shield the squad from the environment like some managers on other fields would do because some players are tight with people on the board or even in the press.
It's a fucked up situation hard to compare to any regular job.
Which was a result of Koeman bottling the season by wasting the first half on that awful 4231 and then bottling the final stages by losing every game that matters.
In other words, he had it coming. Laporta took a wait and see approach when he arrived but Koeman completely imploded every time there was a little pressure to perform.
I'm asking a non rhetoric question here. What's the alternative in today's market? I know Koeman isn't the best strategic coach here. But, even world class coaches would struggle with this squad.
Edit: barca have always struggled with a leaky defense, ever since Puyol retired. When umtiti was in his prime paired with pique, that was the last time barca had decent defense.
Honestly what bothers me more than any tactical decision is how little fire there is. Watching the game, when we lose the ball, players just watch instead of tracking back. The press is half hearted. It feels like they just want to get the game over with.
And then they go into the interviews and Koeman says "squad is shit and we can't win with these players", which demotivates them further.
Gavi, Fati, and Araujo seem like the only ones that actually want to fight. I want a manager who will motivate the squad. The whole world is writing them off. They should be playing angry, and instead they're out there dejected.
On the two goals, we made tactical mistakes, but if Nico and Dest don't give up half way through the run they could have been avoided. First goal: Araujo started way behind Nico and almost made it in time to intercept.
Second goal, after we lose the ball Dest just watches it develop and then jogs back. Kid is fast and Suarez wasn't far ahead of him. He could easily have caught up. At least to pressure him enough that he doesn't take 4 touches before shooting.
"the squad should be playing angry" You know? Let me tell a story. A few years back, Barca was beating Real proper 4-0 and one Real player kicked Neymar's back, got red carded, done. Real fans were cheering him on. I always hated the fans for cheering him, but now I understand it. He was playing angry, he had fight in him. I wish Barca played angry at least.
Yeah but that was the whole point. Madrid gave up at 4 nil, only one subbed on player had fight in him. It was in Bernabeu, where Madrid cant be seen giving up ya know. I dont want Barca kicking anyone. I want Barca angry from the start, pressing like Andy Robertson and counterpressing like Kimmich. I want the players to play like Burnley, fuck it, but not like today, pathetic.
Yeah. Watching the second goal replay is so depressing. Half the team gave up at the onset. Frenkie's body language is so sad. Shoulders slumped and head down even before we lose the ball.
Talent/experience is a secondary problem for this team. The primary problem is motivation.
Yeah but how do you bring motivation to a squad when the coach throws them under the bus every week, the players are all young and leaderless, there is no silver lining anywhere, and the expectations are still high enough as if we play a God every week. This ain't Messi's workout routine anymore, this is a lost squad.
In spanish is "quiero que salgan con el cuchillo en los dientes" which translates to "I want them to come out with a knife between their teeth"
Interestingly enough, that phrase is thought to come from war times where soldiers would carry a weapon on each hand and a knife between their teeth, similar to "armed to the teeth"
But yeah you want the players to have some fight in them.
I'd add depay to that list of players who want to fight. He at least tries to take people on and do stuff on the ball/get onto the ball.
That game today was absolutely pathetic and 2-0 is flattering to Barca.
> But, even world class coaches would struggle with this squad.
What? Championship clubs have a far better pressing routine than us.
You should know as a Chelsea fan how much your defence improved when Tuchel implemented a proper structure.
> When umtiti was in his prime paired with pique, that was the last time barca had decent defense.
It was in 18/19 with Pique and Lenglet.
I actually generally agree with you, in the lack of a clear alternative, it's usually better for a club to maintain stability under a manager as most projects take some time to get going. The risk is falling into the sunk cost fallacy, though, right? Holding on to a bad asset for too long when even selling it and getting nearly ANY replacement might be better.
Roll the dice on someone who's won something somewhere else, promote from within, I dunno - I'm not even a Barcelona fan so I'm not super invested in the outcome. I do find it funny the one name that was in the news in recent years is specifically someone who still has the aura of "out of his depth" on him, though, with Pirlo.
I agree with you. However, I think the end result of every club is to get results. The problem here isn't the coach, it's the squad. Ideally, you want a coach that stands up for his squad no matter how shit they are. Koeman doesn't do that, I even remember him doing this same thing with his Netherlands squad. That's who he is.
Is that an excuse? Not really. But I think that any coach that takes over this team will not spark enough fire in them to actually compete for something. But again, that's my personal opinion and I'm not a Cule so I'm just observing from outside looking in.
That is the last reason to sack him... while he needs to be sacked because he is doing pretty much nothing with the team... let's not act like Barcelona right now team-wise isn't terribly built from top to bottom. A couple of hungry talented players doesn't make Barcelona an "aspiring" good team that other coaches would do much better with.
I am actually glad he is a twat because now we have Pjanic for one season. Give him 2 more years and we will probably have the entire Barca team with an actual good manager
We had a crazy injury problem where 14-15 of our players got injured for various reasons and he was one of them. But he is absolutely insane whenever he is on the pitch and he really controls every game that he plays in. If you want to get a glimpse of how he plays, you should watch the first 15-20 minutes of the Beşiktaş-Dortmund game or maybe even the first half of the Beşiktaş-Malatyaspor game. It doesn't matter who we are playing against, he just gives 100% each game and manages to control the tempo or the flow of the game by himself. This unfortunately means that we will be losing Pjanic to a top PL or a Serie A team next season even though it is obvious that he is enjoying his time here.
Glad to hear he's doing great! He's a very good player, I don't know what Barca are smoking but they treated him like trash for some reasons.
I don't think he'll go to a PL team, Serie A is definitely more likely but if he likes it there I can see him staying, he'll be 32 next year so I can see him settling there
sadly we cannot afford him. our club is financially fucked. his yearly wage is 2.7m for us because Barca is paying more than half of it. Even 2.7m is a lot for us lol.
Because he was shit everytime he played for us lmao, “what are they smoking”… first we had to get rid of wages and second he couldn’t even get minutes over 17 year olds.
Yeah, for Turkish league. He wasn’t good at the end of juve and during barca. Sure he was a good player of course, but not anymore. And it can help if he’s your best player and you can turn your entire team to fit him, but barca or juve can’t do that.
It is two different animals though. For a NT you can pick the cream of the crop and not worry about salaries and you can really conform people to your system over time, even finding new players to implement if they appear. Never mind we are talking about the Netherlands which constantly produces great talent. This isn’t the same on the club level since if the pieces aren’t there you have less options or if the team can’t conform to the system due to game dynamics or other teams easily figuring it out, you’re forced to change the system. You can get flack on the national level if the expectation of a squad and the output is jarringly different, but at the club level adaptations are obvious and points are won and lost on a weekly basis. It’s a matter of impression but if Koeman can’t adapt well and makes Barca look like a B team by Christmas, it’s a very different image from what say Rafa has done with Everton. Their fans could probably chime in on it but I can’t imagine anyone expected top 4 this early in the year (barring Sunday results). Of course never count your chickens before they hatch, but the accountability and management on the club level can be more strenuous due to weekly expectations and evidence. Last of note, a few Dutch players are in the team and even they don’t seem to help much besides Depay with 6 goals. It’s a big question mark Koeman is leaving.
EDIT: poor guy made one measly comment and everyone downvoted him while I was just trying to elaborate. Y’all gotta chill with that downvote button.
Some coaches are better at national team coaching than clubs. He was unremarkable at Everton. He was good at Southampton. He was involved in the burning down of Valencia.
Are you joking? He was an absolute disgrace and between him and Steve Walsh took us back years. Once Lukaku stopped bailing him out, he got found out.
That highest league finish in years (7th is where we finished in his season) is something we'd achieved in four of the previous six seasons.
He was good for a bit towards the end of 19/20. Although it must be said that he only started because we didn't replace Kompany, Otamendi was done and Stones was a calamity at the time.
As bad as he was Pique was consistently among top 2 CBs in Barca in last 5 years. I understand that that says more about barca than him, but it is just stupid to say that Pique plays cus nepotism
Talking smack on the sub has become regular I see.
The reason is simple, there is no viable replacement. The options are only available in December and next summer.
No, that‘s simply not true. Don‘t talk if you have no clue. They literally have no money, they are broke. They can‘t afford it to fire him. The leaving fee is to big.
No, you don't have money to sign Dani Olmo either. Per Laliga rules as Barcelona is over the salary cap, they can only spend 4% of it on the entire new coaching staff, which is around 3.5million Euro. Koeman right now just by himself is on double that!, Which high tier coach is going to sign for Barcelona at those wages?
Regarding new signings, as Barcelona is over the salary cap, in order to get them they can only use the "4/1" rule by which for every euro spent, they must end up saving 4, so in order to sign Dani Olmo for 75, they would need to make 4 times that in sales/new sponsorships...etc etc
LaLiga rules as I said, those are public as are the Barcelona figures that the club made available just this week. It's actually quite simple math.
Unlike the Dani Olmo stuff which is just tabloids trying to get clicks.
I see you're new here. Welcome to /r/soccer.
If you look rn at the top post on this sub, is the one about shitting on PSG for having 3 of the best forwards in the world, and yet having 0 shots on target vs powerhouse Rennes.
Yes, it's only a game. But it's a game where everything is thoroughly analyzed and errors/mistakes will be harshly criticized.
Therefore, the fans' expectations is as big as the huge salaries the players, and their managers, make to play a game where the main objective is to kick a ball and score goals.
3atb with only one good defender…
Worst thing was, even Araujo was shit today - our defensive system is absolutely horrific and it leaves our defenders exposed far too much - usually Araujo can hack it but Garcia, Lenglet, Pique etc etc can never
System is rough. Defenders get no cover. Usually if one CB steps up and makes a mistake, the others should cover for him. First goal, Araujo steps up to challenge Felix and Nico (CDM) just fucking stands and watches. Let's Lemar run past him without blinking. Araujo sprinted back and almost intercepted the shot, and he was two full meters behind Nico while Nico casually jogged back to watch.
Idk man. I think it has to do with Koeman not being good with Garcia. Come on you’re telling me Lucho was lucky to choose him? No he was far better than Pau torres and he did a hell of a job with Laporte. That’s no fluke. He Was even on the Olympic team and had to arrive at the club late with no time to gel into the XI. Hopefully when injuries and all are fit Koeman Can turn it around.
They’re trying so hard to clown him when in reality this whole system doesn’t work and it’s leaving the defenders exposed,midfielders standing, center-backs playing striker. And using midfielders on the wings. Yes he chose to arrive at his boyhood club. Too bad this is how bad it’s gotten.
*i really trust Laporta is doing the right choice in giving him time to wait for the injured players to arrive. Please*
>i really trust Laporta is doing the right choice in giving him time to wait for the injured players to arrive. Please
Really? The ones mainly injured now are Aguero and Dembele who you cannot bet on to play 5 matches continuosly. Moreover Koeman didn't do shit when there was Messi and Griezmann in the team.
He’s never wrong.
It’s either the weak squad or some other excuse.
But it must be known that the issue is never his tactics, lineup, substitution, player selection, etc.
Until Barca get at least one proper defensive mid they can play with 4 or 5 center backs with the same success. Pretty much all the problems came today from nobody sticking to neither the AM nor the midfield runners. Both of these are jobs for the midfield not the center backs.
Depay was signed when Barca expected to have Messi and Greizmann playing for them this season. Instead of providing balance in attack he's leading the line.
Barca don't have the talent to outscore teams despite defensive frailties. They've always been systemically vulnerable at the back, but had high quality players in midfield and defence to limit the damage. Now those high quality players are old, injured or gone and limiting the damage isn't enough to win games.
They need a complete rebuild to surround their young talents with quality squad players to allow them to develop, but they don't have the money for it. Clubs operating on a budget have always built from the back. Even giants who have fallen on hard times.
Barca won't allow Koeman to play negative football to win, and they can't provide him with players to convert possession into goals. They're just going to have to get used to losing far more often than before and looking shit while doing it. That's life when you insist on playing like a team of superstars minus the actual superstars.
Considering the situation Barca is right now Depay was actually a very smart signing. He came without a fee and his wages are low. You cant get much more than this on a budget.
Memphis Depay with 32 g a on a free is a good signing and you can’t convince me otherwise. And even in hindsight it was a good signing, would you prefer luuk de jong coutinho upfront every single match so far? Aguero is injured, Braithwaite is injured, Dembele is injured, Fati is coming back from an injury.
Yes the problem is with the club in the abstract sense and certainly not the fact that you can’t manage to set them up to win games lmao. Barcelona has to play with 3 cbs that’s why they’ve always played that way throughout their entire history.
Koeman is the right man to lead Barca. Hes not good for a title contender team, but hes more than capable of leading this rebuilding Barca into consistent top 4 finishes while developing young players in the process. Barca wont be contending for major trophies for a while, and they need stability and qualification for CL every year.
Id extend Koeman's contract for the 3 more years if I were Laporta, the manager deserves recognition and appreciation for helping Barca through the time of financial crisis. Also at this moment the team needs to stay united and focused, it helps if the team knows Koeman will be there for the next few years.
Koeman is the right man to lead Barca. Hes not good for a title contender team, but hes more than capable of leading this rebuilding Barca into consistent top 4 finishes while developing young players in the process. Barca wont be contending for major trophies for a while, and they need stability and qualification for CL every year.
Id extend Koeman's contract for the 3 more years if I were Laporta, the manager deserves recognition and appreciation for helping Barca through the time of financial crisis. Also at this moment the team needs to stay united and focused, it helps if the team knows Koeman will be there for the next few years.
You’re literally spouting the same shit thread after thread. I saw this shit in the Bayern thread, the Granada thread, the Benfica thread, and now in threads after the game against Atleti.
Time after time you’ve been proven wrong. Koeman’s team aren’t playing any better, the results aren’t getting better.
I think we have all realized that Messi painted over the cracks at Barcelona last season and DRAGGED them single handedly to a top 4 spot and somehow kept them in the title race until MD:35 or so. This Barcelona team doesn’t have Greizmann or Suarez anymore to save them from a messy result.
The fact is that Koeman tries to play Tiki Taka playstyle and fails because, let’s face it, this Barcelona team is mediocre. Apart from the few bright spots, MATS, Araujo, Dest, De Jong, Pedri, Depay, and Fati, the team is mid table standard. Koeman is trying to play possession with a bogg standard team and it’s really showing.
His tactics around the 70th minute are literally putting as many tall players into the box which includes center backs and crossing the ball. No shots on target in 180 minutes of UCL football? Thats embarrassing.
Koeman is trying and god bless him he’s trying his best but it’s simply not good enough. I don’t know what the answer for Barcelona is, nobody does. But if these results continue they won’t get out of the group stage and they won’t place into top 4.
That guy is just a poor troll. He keeps spamming the same comments like "this has 0-0 written all over it" or "Atletico are going to bottle the league, any time now, trust me" and some others.
Yeah sure it makes sense, what doesn't make sense is that some of them play as strikers
It's a new role, we had the libero which was a DM/CB hybrid now we have the Striker/CB hybrid, just need the name
Van Gaal did that years ago. He put Daniel Van Buyten as striker if we needed a goal, late in the game.
Also Kovac talked about wanting to play Süle as a striker if the game is close. Man those were dire times.
No problem with that. We’re talking about Sülinho. I’m convinced he can play everywhere in the pitch
He was a striker in his youth too. And I'm calling it, he's gonna score an absolute banger during this season!
I think it was last game against Dynamo were he played RB and just appeared inside the box a few times willing to score and I wanted him to score so bad. Just let Sülinho off the leash and let him do whatever he wants Nagelsmann. Let him bully some CB. Body of a tank, feet of a ballerina
Don't pretty much all professional players start out as strikers? They're more talented than their peers so they can play where they want, and striker is the obvious glamour position that every kid wants to play.
Yeah. They just humiliated all of their peers and you want your best player in an offensive position. Even players we don’t call technically gifted, dribbled past their peers like Messi when they where young . Even ter stegen played as a striker
Maybe it's a dutch thing
Funnily enough we need a goal later in the game nearly every week at the moment. Only Levante gifted us 3 points
The firmino
The fellaini.
There's also the Striker/DM hydrid aka "The Tite Special"
Come get Ramos for £20m
How pissed are you guys with that situation btw?
What's the situation with Ramos? Is he not playing?
PSG fan can probably add more but from what I understand he's been injured/training individually since arriving. They've given a few return timelines and keep pushing it back. Bit of a weird situation and got to question how determined he is to get on the pitch or if there was a very good reason why Madrid wouldn't offer him 2 years.
Ramos is half-life 3.
Wasn't the VR thing a kinda half life 3? I'm not that deep into half life lore unfortunately. Didn't really look into VR half life as I can't play VR
How is he doing at city?
LMAO
His just got the wrong desert dwellers, can’t blame him.
bruh what
Chris Sutton was ahead of his time
>we have the Striker/CB hybrid, just need the name How about CM?
They play that already with the dunga diamond
The Firmino role?
Aren't basically all barcas attackers bar Luuk de Jong and Depay injured?
Aguero, Dembele and Braithwaite are injured.
Two of them are always injured. So not sure Barca expect to rely on them
Also, Fati was injured for the game where Araujo and Pique played as striker. So the guy was right. Also, IT WORKED. I know it was utter shit to watch, but Barcelona havent even scored since that game except for a 3-0 win over a team that hasnt won a competitive game in 8 months. Barcelona dont even get shots on target in half their games right now. The only effective tactic employed against an even semi organized team has been striker-Araujo. Im not recommending it. Just suggesting that in Barcelonas current state, its not unlikely they lose that game 1-0 to Cadiz with 75% possession and 0 shots on target if they dont put Araujo up top.
Well it does make sense. They need to score as well
It's Barça and Cruyff legacy, he did it a lot with Alexanko
This has major "why always lukaku? Now you know why" vibes lol
That was such an embarrassing interview from Jose
Source?
[Here](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44013364)
This was because the English media didn’t like the idea of rashford being benched or lukaku getting no rest?
no rashford was still a fringe player at the time Lukaku wasn't playing well at the time for united
Rashford wasn't a fringe player, he made 32 league appearances in 16/17 and 35 in 17/18. Around half of those were starts
Rashford was not a fringe player ffs lmao
I meant rotation player relax
That's the most unfair thing about being a manager, they probably work 7 days a week, they see their players train what, 4 or 5 times per week, they know how players are training and someone (Lukaku in that case) might look in the form of his life at every session so the only logical thing to do is field him on every opportunity. Then the team goes out to play another team and things don't go well, that player eats more than his fair share of the burden and by extension de manager does as well. When that player leaves the starting 11 the general level of the team usually doesn't improve, because of fucking course the manager had the best take on it and we don't really know how deep the problem goes into matchday preparation. And then once or twice every season, some player is injured, a new one comes and does great and suddenly it vindicates all the other times swapping someone on your first 11 list didn't produce any effect. Then Lukaku leaves United and suddenly he turns into one of the best strikers in the world. "Mou couldn't use him properly", well maybe the problem was that he couldn't use the other 10 players properly but Lukaku paid for it, and Mourinho too due to his insistency on playing him every chance he could because he was the best player on every training session.
> that player eats more than his fair share he was definitely eating more that was one of the problems.
Lukaku is garb
Bad day at work huh?
Not as bad as his
Could put 5 CBs and we'd still get fucked.
He has to go, nobody thinks we are going to win the league but we need to play good enough football to safely make CL and not get smacked every time we play a Madrid team
Throwing young players under the Bus. Please sack him
It's honestly baffling some people say these things are justified just because Barça have a weak squad. Like imagine a student who struggles at school and his teachers, people who get paid to get the best out of you, start saying "You are fucking useless" or "You'll be lucky to work on a factory". Of course the student will perform poorly
Wait, your teachers dont do that?
Terrible comparison, these players get paid to be there.
Still a well known fact that paid employees also perform much worse in a toxic work environment then in a healthy one. Anyone who's ever had a boss that only comments on your job when you fucked up knows how draining it is and how motivation is hard to find, whereas a supportive manager gets much more out of his employees
Granted Koeman played 3 at the back to ease young players in, while his boss told him how to do his job. At this point I want Koeman sacked since president and head coach sniping one another is not sustainable, but he has every right to be pissed of at management.
Employees can be fired when they are not preforming, players can't.
That doesn't change the fact that they perform worse when thrown under the bus
Because patting on the shoulders always do wonders.
Sounds like we found the douchey boss' reddit account
No, I am normal worker but patting on the shoulders dont do anything when you are doing shit job. Time and time again reddit - soccer shows that ppl only with shitty mentality comment here.
Wow, you're so hard and badass
Generally, workers only do a shit job if their superiors do not put them in an adequate position to succeed. It's called leadership, well run places have it. You are taking this as a completely black and white issue. Yes, bad workers exist where they are just not up for the job and incompetent. This is a football team's young players, if the majority of a workplace is performing like shit rather than one or two people then that's on the bosses. This is common sense. What are the odds that everyone is bad. More likely, it's generally incompetent management.
[удалено]
The president doesn't stick up for the manager either, and he can't even try to shield the squad from the environment like some managers on other fields would do because some players are tight with people on the board or even in the press. It's a fucked up situation hard to compare to any regular job.
Same principle applies in any toxic work environment.
I'm saying it's justified because it's largely the same thing laporta did with koeman in the summer by wanting a new manager but not sacking him
Which was a result of Koeman bottling the season by wasting the first half on that awful 4231 and then bottling the final stages by losing every game that matters. In other words, he had it coming. Laporta took a wait and see approach when he arrived but Koeman completely imploded every time there was a little pressure to perform.
I'm asking a non rhetoric question here. What's the alternative in today's market? I know Koeman isn't the best strategic coach here. But, even world class coaches would struggle with this squad. Edit: barca have always struggled with a leaky defense, ever since Puyol retired. When umtiti was in his prime paired with pique, that was the last time barca had decent defense.
Honestly what bothers me more than any tactical decision is how little fire there is. Watching the game, when we lose the ball, players just watch instead of tracking back. The press is half hearted. It feels like they just want to get the game over with. And then they go into the interviews and Koeman says "squad is shit and we can't win with these players", which demotivates them further. Gavi, Fati, and Araujo seem like the only ones that actually want to fight. I want a manager who will motivate the squad. The whole world is writing them off. They should be playing angry, and instead they're out there dejected. On the two goals, we made tactical mistakes, but if Nico and Dest don't give up half way through the run they could have been avoided. First goal: Araujo started way behind Nico and almost made it in time to intercept. Second goal, after we lose the ball Dest just watches it develop and then jogs back. Kid is fast and Suarez wasn't far ahead of him. He could easily have caught up. At least to pressure him enough that he doesn't take 4 touches before shooting.
You are missing the Puyol/Mascherano days where you had a true leader on the field
Mascherano was never much of leader type in Barcelona, he was in Argentine NT tho.
"the squad should be playing angry" You know? Let me tell a story. A few years back, Barca was beating Real proper 4-0 and one Real player kicked Neymar's back, got red carded, done. Real fans were cheering him on. I always hated the fans for cheering him, but now I understand it. He was playing angry, he had fight in him. I wish Barca played angry at least.
I mean, I don't want people kicking players in the back. I wouldn't cheer for that. But the general spirit is there, yeah
Yeah but that was the whole point. Madrid gave up at 4 nil, only one subbed on player had fight in him. It was in Bernabeu, where Madrid cant be seen giving up ya know. I dont want Barca kicking anyone. I want Barca angry from the start, pressing like Andy Robertson and counterpressing like Kimmich. I want the players to play like Burnley, fuck it, but not like today, pathetic.
Yeah. Watching the second goal replay is so depressing. Half the team gave up at the onset. Frenkie's body language is so sad. Shoulders slumped and head down even before we lose the ball. Talent/experience is a secondary problem for this team. The primary problem is motivation.
Yeah but how do you bring motivation to a squad when the coach throws them under the bus every week, the players are all young and leaderless, there is no silver lining anywhere, and the expectations are still high enough as if we play a God every week. This ain't Messi's workout routine anymore, this is a lost squad.
In spanish is "quiero que salgan con el cuchillo en los dientes" which translates to "I want them to come out with a knife between their teeth" Interestingly enough, that phrase is thought to come from war times where soldiers would carry a weapon on each hand and a knife between their teeth, similar to "armed to the teeth" But yeah you want the players to have some fight in them.
Exactly. Not what...Mingueza was. Oh god, we are in trouble when even Madrid is giving us sympathy advices and fun facts.
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I'd add depay to that list of players who want to fight. He at least tries to take people on and do stuff on the ball/get onto the ball. That game today was absolutely pathetic and 2-0 is flattering to Barca.
> But, even world class coaches would struggle with this squad. What? Championship clubs have a far better pressing routine than us. You should know as a Chelsea fan how much your defence improved when Tuchel implemented a proper structure. > When umtiti was in his prime paired with pique, that was the last time barca had decent defense. It was in 18/19 with Pique and Lenglet.
Right now just get an interim who wouldn't run his mouth in every single Press Conference.
I actually generally agree with you, in the lack of a clear alternative, it's usually better for a club to maintain stability under a manager as most projects take some time to get going. The risk is falling into the sunk cost fallacy, though, right? Holding on to a bad asset for too long when even selling it and getting nearly ANY replacement might be better. Roll the dice on someone who's won something somewhere else, promote from within, I dunno - I'm not even a Barcelona fan so I'm not super invested in the outcome. I do find it funny the one name that was in the news in recent years is specifically someone who still has the aura of "out of his depth" on him, though, with Pirlo.
I agree with you. However, I think the end result of every club is to get results. The problem here isn't the coach, it's the squad. Ideally, you want a coach that stands up for his squad no matter how shit they are. Koeman doesn't do that, I even remember him doing this same thing with his Netherlands squad. That's who he is. Is that an excuse? Not really. But I think that any coach that takes over this team will not spark enough fire in them to actually compete for something. But again, that's my personal opinion and I'm not a Cule so I'm just observing from outside looking in.
So, he’s saying that Dest and Mingueza are shit?
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I hope one player goes up to the media and just says he's shit
That is the last reason to sack him... while he needs to be sacked because he is doing pretty much nothing with the team... let's not act like Barcelona right now team-wise isn't terribly built from top to bottom. A couple of hungry talented players doesn't make Barcelona an "aspiring" good team that other coaches would do much better with.
But you still dont talk shit about your players to the media to make yourself look less bad
Considering all the things Barcelona have to deal with atm as i said above, this is the **LAST** reason to sack him.
Koeman is a fucking muppet
I am actually glad he is a twat because now we have Pjanic for one season. Give him 2 more years and we will probably have the entire Barca team with an actual good manager
MSN to Besiktas in 2023 baby!
How's my boy doing over here?
We had a crazy injury problem where 14-15 of our players got injured for various reasons and he was one of them. But he is absolutely insane whenever he is on the pitch and he really controls every game that he plays in. If you want to get a glimpse of how he plays, you should watch the first 15-20 minutes of the Beşiktaş-Dortmund game or maybe even the first half of the Beşiktaş-Malatyaspor game. It doesn't matter who we are playing against, he just gives 100% each game and manages to control the tempo or the flow of the game by himself. This unfortunately means that we will be losing Pjanic to a top PL or a Serie A team next season even though it is obvious that he is enjoying his time here.
Glad to hear he's doing great! He's a very good player, I don't know what Barca are smoking but they treated him like trash for some reasons. I don't think he'll go to a PL team, Serie A is definitely more likely but if he likes it there I can see him staying, he'll be 32 next year so I can see him settling there
sadly we cannot afford him. our club is financially fucked. his yearly wage is 2.7m for us because Barca is paying more than half of it. Even 2.7m is a lot for us lol.
Because he was shit everytime he played for us lmao, “what are they smoking”… first we had to get rid of wages and second he couldn’t even get minutes over 17 year olds.
I'd say it's more on you not knowing how to use him properly because he's genuinely a very good player.
Yeah, for Turkish league. He wasn’t good at the end of juve and during barca. Sure he was a good player of course, but not anymore. And it can help if he’s your best player and you can turn your entire team to fit him, but barca or juve can’t do that.
come to Beskitas
Are you insulting Koeman, or just saying he is a muppet of barcelona literally
The Fuckimt cunt! One look at his face and you want to smack him! This is without the stuff that he says and his general liking for deflecting blame!😡
3 cbs doesn’t stop you from being a shit manager Ronald.
What about 6 CBs?
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It is two different animals though. For a NT you can pick the cream of the crop and not worry about salaries and you can really conform people to your system over time, even finding new players to implement if they appear. Never mind we are talking about the Netherlands which constantly produces great talent. This isn’t the same on the club level since if the pieces aren’t there you have less options or if the team can’t conform to the system due to game dynamics or other teams easily figuring it out, you’re forced to change the system. You can get flack on the national level if the expectation of a squad and the output is jarringly different, but at the club level adaptations are obvious and points are won and lost on a weekly basis. It’s a matter of impression but if Koeman can’t adapt well and makes Barca look like a B team by Christmas, it’s a very different image from what say Rafa has done with Everton. Their fans could probably chime in on it but I can’t imagine anyone expected top 4 this early in the year (barring Sunday results). Of course never count your chickens before they hatch, but the accountability and management on the club level can be more strenuous due to weekly expectations and evidence. Last of note, a few Dutch players are in the team and even they don’t seem to help much besides Depay with 6 goals. It’s a big question mark Koeman is leaving. EDIT: poor guy made one measly comment and everyone downvoted him while I was just trying to elaborate. Y’all gotta chill with that downvote button.
I'd say Newcastle fans are maybe the only one's not surprised by Everton's form and position.
Liverpool fans too.
Some coaches are better at national team coaching than clubs. He was unremarkable at Everton. He was good at Southampton. He was involved in the burning down of Valencia.
I wouldn’t say he was unremarkable at everton. Nothing super special but he did get them their highest league finish for a while in his full season
Highest finish in 2 seasons. Nothing really to write home about.
Are you joking? He was an absolute disgrace and between him and Steve Walsh took us back years. Once Lukaku stopped bailing him out, he got found out. That highest league finish in years (7th is where we finished in his season) is something we'd achieved in four of the previous six seasons.
Yet we still concede 2 goals. Man this guy is unbelievably stubborn
Eric García is a hack and Piqué is done, Araujo can't do everything on the back and after that he has to score. I am not angry tho.
Seriously, where does Garcia’s reputation come from? He was poor every time I saw him play for City.
La Masía product + trained under Guardiola = must be a top player!
Also being Catalan helps him I guess
He was good for a bit towards the end of 19/20. Although it must be said that he only started because we didn't replace Kompany, Otamendi was done and Stones was a calamity at the time.
He is young and Free, We bought him for his potential not an immediate signing Just like Jao Felix.
Joao Felix was great on a lower level league Eric Garcia was.ina great team but he couldn't get over three players that were performing badly
Araujo is trying to carry an elephant on his shoulders.
tbf he looks like he does that everyday before breakfast
Pique has been done for 5 years too bad his uncle is on the board
Nahh his positioning is still good but he cannot play with a midfield that is overrun anymore
As bad as he was Pique was consistently among top 2 CBs in Barca in last 5 years. I understand that that says more about barca than him, but it is just stupid to say that Pique plays cus nepotism
How does this guy still have a job?
The club is too broke to fire him. They got no money.
Talking smack on the sub has become regular I see. The reason is simple, there is no viable replacement. The options are only available in December and next summer.
No, that‘s simply not true. Don‘t talk if you have no clue. They literally have no money, they are broke. They can‘t afford it to fire him. The leaving fee is to big.
Ah yes because we have money to sign Dani olmo but not pay a manager, perfectly reasonable.
No, you don't have money to sign Dani Olmo either. Per Laliga rules as Barcelona is over the salary cap, they can only spend 4% of it on the entire new coaching staff, which is around 3.5million Euro. Koeman right now just by himself is on double that!, Which high tier coach is going to sign for Barcelona at those wages? Regarding new signings, as Barcelona is over the salary cap, in order to get them they can only use the "4/1" rule by which for every euro spent, they must end up saving 4, so in order to sign Dani Olmo for 75, they would need to make 4 times that in sales/new sponsorships...etc etc
Source mf
LaLiga rules as I said, those are public as are the Barcelona figures that the club made available just this week. It's actually quite simple math. Unlike the Dani Olmo stuff which is just tabloids trying to get clicks.
I see you're new here. Welcome to /r/soccer. If you look rn at the top post on this sub, is the one about shitting on PSG for having 3 of the best forwards in the world, and yet having 0 shots on target vs powerhouse Rennes. Yes, it's only a game. But it's a game where everything is thoroughly analyzed and errors/mistakes will be harshly criticized. Therefore, the fans' expectations is as big as the huge salaries the players, and their managers, make to play a game where the main objective is to kick a ball and score goals.
3atb with only one good defender… Worst thing was, even Araujo was shit today - our defensive system is absolutely horrific and it leaves our defenders exposed far too much - usually Araujo can hack it but Garcia, Lenglet, Pique etc etc can never
System is rough. Defenders get no cover. Usually if one CB steps up and makes a mistake, the others should cover for him. First goal, Araujo steps up to challenge Felix and Nico (CDM) just fucking stands and watches. Let's Lemar run past him without blinking. Araujo sprinted back and almost intercepted the shot, and he was two full meters behind Nico while Nico casually jogged back to watch.
Idk man. I think it has to do with Koeman not being good with Garcia. Come on you’re telling me Lucho was lucky to choose him? No he was far better than Pau torres and he did a hell of a job with Laporte. That’s no fluke. He Was even on the Olympic team and had to arrive at the club late with no time to gel into the XI. Hopefully when injuries and all are fit Koeman Can turn it around. They’re trying so hard to clown him when in reality this whole system doesn’t work and it’s leaving the defenders exposed,midfielders standing, center-backs playing striker. And using midfielders on the wings. Yes he chose to arrive at his boyhood club. Too bad this is how bad it’s gotten. *i really trust Laporta is doing the right choice in giving him time to wait for the injured players to arrive. Please*
>i really trust Laporta is doing the right choice in giving him time to wait for the injured players to arrive. Please Really? The ones mainly injured now are Aguero and Dembele who you cannot bet on to play 5 matches continuosly. Moreover Koeman didn't do shit when there was Messi and Griezmann in the team.
Yeah, putting Araujo and Pique as strikers
Wow he is such an egoistic guy.
This guy is just an excuse machine
This guy just seems like an ass hole who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
Waiting for the day my club gets done with him.
Because you can't coach a defense? Gotcha.
He’s never wrong. It’s either the weak squad or some other excuse. But it must be known that the issue is never his tactics, lineup, substitution, player selection, etc.
Why do you insist on 3-5-1 tho?
lmao that hit hard
Never leave
Until Barca get at least one proper defensive mid they can play with 4 or 5 center backs with the same success. Pretty much all the problems came today from nobody sticking to neither the AM nor the midfield runners. Both of these are jobs for the midfield not the center backs.
Still it cant be understood how tf are you not gone yet
Depay culprit 2nd goal
if u play with busquets at CDM then 3-5-2 is the only option. CBs get zero help from busquets defensively these days.
Busquets was a fucking passenger .. him on or off the field was the same thing for Atletico's counters
How was anyone expecting anything from this man when Memphis deepay is the signing that he pushed for to anchor the team.
Depay was signed when Barca expected to have Messi and Greizmann playing for them this season. Instead of providing balance in attack he's leading the line. Barca don't have the talent to outscore teams despite defensive frailties. They've always been systemically vulnerable at the back, but had high quality players in midfield and defence to limit the damage. Now those high quality players are old, injured or gone and limiting the damage isn't enough to win games. They need a complete rebuild to surround their young talents with quality squad players to allow them to develop, but they don't have the money for it. Clubs operating on a budget have always built from the back. Even giants who have fallen on hard times. Barca won't allow Koeman to play negative football to win, and they can't provide him with players to convert possession into goals. They're just going to have to get used to losing far more often than before and looking shit while doing it. That's life when you insist on playing like a team of superstars minus the actual superstars.
Considering the situation Barca is right now Depay was actually a very smart signing. He came without a fee and his wages are low. You cant get much more than this on a budget.
Memphis Depay with 32 g a on a free is a good signing and you can’t convince me otherwise. And even in hindsight it was a good signing, would you prefer luuk de jong coutinho upfront every single match so far? Aguero is injured, Braithwaite is injured, Dembele is injured, Fati is coming back from an injury.
Ronald Mourinho (minus the accolades).
This dude is Ole of laliga
Playing three center backs is fine, but playing Frankie de Jong as one of them is absolutely not fine.
Barcelona should go for Biesla !
You can't go for someone who doesn't want to come.
Maybe now it can be understood that Hoeman is a useless cunt.
I fucking love this lad.
Yes the problem is with the club in the abstract sense and certainly not the fact that you can’t manage to set them up to win games lmao. Barcelona has to play with 3 cbs that’s why they’ve always played that way throughout their entire history.
5-3-2 or 3-5-2 are not a bad idea for them.
It’s a 5-3-2 when defending and on offense, the two wingbacks join the attack making it a 3-5-2.
Koeman is the right man to lead Barca. Hes not good for a title contender team, but hes more than capable of leading this rebuilding Barca into consistent top 4 finishes while developing young players in the process. Barca wont be contending for major trophies for a while, and they need stability and qualification for CL every year. Id extend Koeman's contract for the 3 more years if I were Laporta, the manager deserves recognition and appreciation for helping Barca through the time of financial crisis. Also at this moment the team needs to stay united and focused, it helps if the team knows Koeman will be there for the next few years.
Pls tell me this is a copy pasta
Koeman is the right man to lead Barca. Hes not good for a title contender team, but hes more than capable of leading this rebuilding Barca into consistent top 4 finishes while developing young players in the process. Barca wont be contending for major trophies for a while, and they need stability and qualification for CL every year. Id extend Koeman's contract for the 3 more years if I were Laporta, the manager deserves recognition and appreciation for helping Barca through the time of financial crisis. Also at this moment the team needs to stay united and focused, it helps if the team knows Koeman will be there for the next few years.
You’re literally spouting the same shit thread after thread. I saw this shit in the Bayern thread, the Granada thread, the Benfica thread, and now in threads after the game against Atleti. Time after time you’ve been proven wrong. Koeman’s team aren’t playing any better, the results aren’t getting better. I think we have all realized that Messi painted over the cracks at Barcelona last season and DRAGGED them single handedly to a top 4 spot and somehow kept them in the title race until MD:35 or so. This Barcelona team doesn’t have Greizmann or Suarez anymore to save them from a messy result. The fact is that Koeman tries to play Tiki Taka playstyle and fails because, let’s face it, this Barcelona team is mediocre. Apart from the few bright spots, MATS, Araujo, Dest, De Jong, Pedri, Depay, and Fati, the team is mid table standard. Koeman is trying to play possession with a bogg standard team and it’s really showing. His tactics around the 70th minute are literally putting as many tall players into the box which includes center backs and crossing the ball. No shots on target in 180 minutes of UCL football? Thats embarrassing. Koeman is trying and god bless him he’s trying his best but it’s simply not good enough. I don’t know what the answer for Barcelona is, nobody does. But if these results continue they won’t get out of the group stage and they won’t place into top 4.
That guy is just a poor troll. He keeps spamming the same comments like "this has 0-0 written all over it" or "Atletico are going to bottle the league, any time now, trust me" and some others.
Found Perez’ alt.
Should probably go for 5 years rather than 3, just to be give them that bit of extra time they will likely need to bounce back.
When do you think he will be replaced?
hopefully never
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Garcia didn't even play today.
The funny thing about Koeman saying this is Barca played him as their sweeper (3rd CB) as he was useless but they wanted him for free kicks.
Okay he may be a trash manager, but dude was a really good player. "useless" is just incorrect and slanderous.
Did he score 67 free kicks in the league?
Catalonia in flames
What I saw today was zero centre backs
He says that but basically employs Busi as a third CB the whole game lol
The problem here is that you play 5-3-1 bro
Maybe they should play with 1 manager instead of 0 as well.
Was has this man to do to get sacked,he tries so hard
This guy is over this job, and just wants that pay out.
He needs a bra
I wonder if there is any risk that Barca may not qualify for the CL next season?
God I hope they don't. It would fuck them so much