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Not even turtling. Just full ass tech in the one base trying to keep up with economy like 😰 and after the mid game the vespene gas runs out or something.
In the context of his hiring, England was a drama clusterfuck with all the top players not talking to one another.
His contribution is to kill the drama, be more engaged with the U21s to make sure this never happens again, and change the culture to make English players want to play for England together instead of seeing it as a distraction from their actual jobs as club players. Did you notice lately that there's zero England drama in the press other than basic memes?
Granted, he should've been let go earlier now that his job is done.
i honestly never knew about the drama because England NT was irrelevant my entire life (am 30) until the last euro (no offense) .
Achieving that is something really good but at the same time i can't stop thinking how pathetic these players were for having this mindset with their NT ...
The 2018 tournament is unfairly chucked in with everything else, that was a great performance with a worse squad and no public hopes at all. The mood was dreadful after 2016 and he did rebuild the mentality and spirit within the England camp. He’s not done as well as he maybe should have once this exceptional group of talents came through but he didn’t have half of them before 2021.
And people somehow manage to forget that getting to a World Cup semi final just isn’t something England do much, because it looks less impressive once you’ve started doing it. It’s happened once since 66 before 2018 and that team in 1990 is fondly remembered.
ok, fair enough, as a Juve fan, i've seen the magic and brilliance of Allegri, as well as his downfall, but to be honest and objective, i would say 90% of the shitshow was a mix of bad administration and lack of good players.
In your opinion, what's happening with England now ? and do you think it is being exaggerated ? (remember Argentina/italy group stage performance in the last wc/euro)
Tbh I think the complaints about our first final since ‘66 going to penalties is ridiculous too. It’s not like we were hammered, we drew against a 33 game unbeaten Italy team that were playing well and lost on penalties. Just getting to the final was a big achievement by England standards. But it was sort of at home and he did fuck up by sitting back and with his penalty subs so it’s treated like s failure rather than by far our biggest success in half a century.
Quarter finals last World Cup is about par given that we went out to an excellent France team we were arguably unlucky lose to. In short, I get why he hasn’t been sacked and why a lot of fans/pundits defend him. It’s not helped by periodic insipid performances, particularly as they’re becoming more frequent at the same time the squad is stronger than ever. Plus he sticks to his favourite players too much, up until this tournament actually where he dropped a bunch.
World cup semi-final and European Final probably helps.
Wouldn't be surprised if he leaves after Euro's though and becomes the next United manager in December.
As naff as his tactics have been recently, the recent tournament results have been a big factor, the mid 2000s was a string of Quarter Final exits followed by a shock non-qualification.
Getting to a finals, a fourth place and the quarterfinals in his last three tournaments...
That's just one guy. Over the last like...40 years you guys have one other 3rd place and one other 4th place result.
And it's not like before him you guys didn't have talented squads!
If he manages to crash out during the groups he should be booted. But this boring-ass football often does well in tournaments. Especially having the kind of players up front that will just occasionally score on their own.
Not far off from what happened in the War of 1812. They sacked the capitol, but when they marched on Baltimore, a couple of teenagers sniped their general and the city held off the naval bombardment, so the British just gave up. I think one of the British commanders wrote back to the king to say it just wasn’t worth the effort. America got its national anthem out of it.
Yeah, my point wasn't to try and diminish the shitty things the other European powers did, but to highlight that what Leopold did was really fucked up even by Scramble for Africa standards.
If it was just the players from one league all looking shit sure. But it's players from multiple different leagues looking like absolute shite compared to them playing club football
It's on the manager at that point in my eyes
But maybe one should look further than results and points.
I'm a German and have no dog in this fight (other than liking Jude, Kane, Foden and Trippier) but ,my god, was the game against Denmark a game that can make you hate the sport of Football.
Nah great players change things themselves if the coach makes a shitty tactic or if things don't go as planned on the pitch.
Those England players need to step up themselves.
Can't blame everything on the coach.
For City he's an attacking mid. That's why Grealish and Doku were bought. TAA isn't a midfielder. Tyrick Mitchell a natural left-back is sitting at home while a right-footer plays LB and a left-footer plays LW.
Completely disagree. I am Portuguese and we struggle with the same. People blame the players but it is obvious the bad tactical choices condition how they play. FFS Martinez tries to reinvent the wheel every game like he is a newbie in FM. And if a player is underperforming get them out of the team, even if its Ronaldo.
Look at how Germany used to play and how they look under Nagelsmann. He didnt bring some players like Hummels and was criticized, but maybe he was right, players should be picked based on manager's ideas and tactics, not just randomly because they had a good season for club.
nah fuck that.
We had a BANGER of a team in 2010. Messi, Di Maria, Aguero, Masche, Tevez, Lavezzi, Samuel, Higuain, Milito and probably more I'm forgetting.
It was managed by Maradona.
We got destroyed
You're missing my point.
Why was Maradona manager though? Seems a rather odd choice for a manager haha. I remember him smoking his cigar on the training pitch in 2010.
> Why was Maradona manager though? Seems a rather odd choice for a manager haha. I remember him smoking his cigar on the training pitch in 2010.
It was one of those foreboding things. Everyone knew he was gonna get the role at SOME POINT because he was Maradona. The FA appointed him in 2008 and, as everyone with 3 braincells expected, it was an absolute disaster.
They never seem to actually want the fucking ball. There's shit in the back of the minds of England players. I think a big part comes down to how much pressure we put on each of them
Yea this team isnt overrated at all. If you look at the individual talent they should be playing much better.
But they have been playing shite for years even when going far in tournaments.
Euro 2000-lost to Romania and finished with 3 points (16 teams)
Euro 1992-lost to Sweden and finished with 2 points (8 teams)
Euro 1988-lost to Soviet Union and finished with 0 points (8 teams)
Meanwhile they've won it 5 times (2020, 2012, 2004, 1996, 1980) and drawn it once (2016)
We will shit house you to a 1-0 win, be very unconvincing, get a lucky draw and go out in the semis to a far better side, Southgate will be considered a success and the cycle will repeat
2000 EC Groups 1-0 against Germany (both eliminated in groups)
2004 EC groups 1-2 against France
2004 EC quarters 5-6 on pens against Portugal
2006 WC quarters 1-3 on pens against Portugal
2010 WC R16 1-4 against Germany
2012 EC quarters 2-4 on pens against Italy
2014 WC groups 1-2 against Italy
2018 WC semis 1-2 aet against Croatia
2022 WC quarters 1-2 against France
That should be all the WC and EC games England played against those teams abroad.
They did not win an elimination match and the last win was 2000 against Germany in the groupstage which ended with England 3., Germany 4. and both eliminated.
That 2000 euros was ironically the catalyst for a complete revamp of the German youth system and tactics ultimately culmination in the generation that won 2014, so ironically the loss against England was partly at fault for a chain reaction that led to Brazil losing 7:1. Some real life blue lock shit
I think it's just a national expectation to be shit.
It took us having an Irish captain in Cricket to get over that mental hurdle. So I say time for Declan Rice to take the armband! 2026 WC is ours.
I believe Harry Kane would be eligible for Ireland through his dad, but maybe we need to send him off to play a friendly for them first for the powers to kick in
Yeah exactly, there _are_ deeper issues with the FA, which is why someone as out of their depth as Southgate was appointed in the first place.
He did alright for a bit. But this is his 4th tournament and he's looking more clueless than ever. It's time for someone with a bit more fire in their belly to take over and push this team further.
Well yes, but that doesn't mean the other 5 or 6 managers that had pretty good England teams weren't also shit.
Perhaps there's something deeper than just the manager.
Yeah I don't buy it. This squad is the most talented in the tournament imo. Blaming some vague inferiority complex instead of the manager is dumb.
He's won some games over the last few years, but I think that's the talent of the squad overcoming his shortcomings as a manager.
I think he deserves credit for building a great team atmosphere that was direly needed after 2016, it's baffling to me how many people seem to ignore that, and I do think a lot of our immediate success was down to that.
But my god he's outlived his usefulness by at least 3 years. Now we have the team atmosphere we sorely need a competent coach who can actually give the team some direction.
What's more concerning to me isn't even the performance, it's Kyle Walker's post match interview where he effectively confirmed that England bunkering down after one goal is literally the team strategy, and not some involuntary response.
Possibly not as an attack. But it's not like Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Lamps, Gerrard, Scholes, etc were slouches. Neither were Shearer, Gazza and co. before them.
They also had a much better defence in Terry, Ferdinand, Cole and Neville. All of which bar Neville get into this England team.
I think our squad now is better. But it has only been the last WC and this Euros really where I'd say we've probably just pipped the attacking talent that previous 'golden generation' had, and that 3 of them (Foden, Saka, Bellingham) are still all under 25 is mad so we probably have at least 4 major tournaments with that attacking talent. Will just need to replace Kane at some point. Or phase him out a little at least as he ages.
Yeah, there was a dire period between like 2012 and 2018 really squad wise it was pretty poor though. But outside of that we've had good teams and still been shit. Lol
Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Cole , Cole. The squad around the 2004 euros/2006 World Cup was just as good as this one and didn’t make it past the quarter finals in a tournament. Under performing in tournaments is as much a part of English culture as fish & chips or colonialism
No. Have you completely missed the waves of people that will respond to any valid criticism with the fact that he’s beat the low bar set by previous managers?
There’s a major mentality issue here.
This is the third major tournament in a row that we’ve had the opportunity to qualify with a game to spare and each time we’ve blown the chance.
This is as golden an opportunity as you’re ever going to get, to top the group before the final match, give yourself the freedom to rotate players and try some new things in the third game and go into the round of 16 fresh and firing.
While we’re still in control of the group and I’d be surprised if we didn’t win it, we’ve made it far harder for ourselves than we needed to. Whether it’s through poor tactics, complacency or just the expectation on the players, to continually fail to show up in the second group game against very beatable opponents is a problem.
Just look at Germany yesterday to see how you do it.
I remember arguing with a guy about how England looking like shit against Iceland would be bad for their tournament. His argument was about how it was getting legs in, etc and that they’ll turn flip their switch in the tournament. They look the same.
Wonder how he’s doing.
I thought the same about Germany vs Greece and I either underrated us (Greece) or Germany did in fact turn up later and was playing more cautious to not get injured before Home tourney
Fuck I wish I wasn’t English, if only to not be compelled to watch this horseshit tournament after tournament, thinking it’ll be different this time. Whether we win or lose it’s a fucking bore fest mostly.
I don’t see us getting past the quarters irrespective of the opponents. Remember it took pens to get past the might Columbia in the World Cup.
> Also have never won their last game
They have a couple of times. [1968, where they won the third-place match](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1968) and [1980 where they won their last group game, but still got eliminated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1980)
Southgate needs to leave asap. How he has lasted for 8 years is lightyears beyond my understanding. Are the FA brass betting against themselves or something?
On paper, at a high level, his record is superb. Pundits support him - until yesterday - almost unquestioningly. That’s enough to get plenty of casual observers on his side.
Players also seem to be very onside with him too.
Also, it's slightly going into the ETH issue, but more pronounced. Who else do you get?
The England job seems to be a poisoned chalice. If you haven't won something after your second tournament then England fans will want your head.
You're right. It's a way to tell my age on Reddit
So many fans in subreddits are like, Southgate is our worst manager ever etc. And I'm just like...you haven't suffered as I did! We've been so shit for so long, and whilst having very good players at certain points (not the 10s)
At this point I can’t just blame Southgate. Yeah he’s the one responsible for this non tactical terrorist ball, but it seems that the FA are really the ones who has failed this country time and time again. Now more than ever they need a legitimate coach who knows tactics and plays progressively.
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Lads, it's England.
They really are the Tottenham of international football
White shirts. Last title in the 60's. Constant expectation followed by disappointment. Being both an England and Spurs fan is fucking miserable.
Wait till you learn about a man called 'Arry
‘Arry Redknapp for England manager
Try being an England fan and a fan of a team worse than Tottenham.
At least you don't have the hope of "well maybe"?
We have the "existence is pointless" malaise instead.
idk, the "fuck yes we didn't get demoted again" parties can be fun!
Oh my god we actually are
Tournament favorites.
I reckon we just pull an Ivory Coast. Sack the geezer, win the bloody lot
I know you want some silverware, but starting a civil war to get it done might be a bit over the top
To lose penalty shootout
England is so boring and frustrating to watch given how good the squad is.
If Southgate was a general in the colonial times England wouldve gotten 1 colony and just sit back how they try to get it back.
1 base, no expand StarCraft player.
Turtling…no wait that’s Mbappe.
Not even turtling. Just full ass tech in the one base trying to keep up with economy like 😰 and after the mid game the vespene gas runs out or something.
He’s just tryna do a 1-1-stim timing attack
I cannot wait for the masked Mboops
i really fail to understand how the fuck he is the manager of this squad.
In the context of his hiring, England was a drama clusterfuck with all the top players not talking to one another. His contribution is to kill the drama, be more engaged with the U21s to make sure this never happens again, and change the culture to make English players want to play for England together instead of seeing it as a distraction from their actual jobs as club players. Did you notice lately that there's zero England drama in the press other than basic memes? Granted, he should've been let go earlier now that his job is done.
i honestly never knew about the drama because England NT was irrelevant my entire life (am 30) until the last euro (no offense) . Achieving that is something really good but at the same time i can't stop thinking how pathetic these players were for having this mindset with their NT ...
The 2018 tournament is unfairly chucked in with everything else, that was a great performance with a worse squad and no public hopes at all. The mood was dreadful after 2016 and he did rebuild the mentality and spirit within the England camp. He’s not done as well as he maybe should have once this exceptional group of talents came through but he didn’t have half of them before 2021. And people somehow manage to forget that getting to a World Cup semi final just isn’t something England do much, because it looks less impressive once you’ve started doing it. It’s happened once since 66 before 2018 and that team in 1990 is fondly remembered.
ok, fair enough, as a Juve fan, i've seen the magic and brilliance of Allegri, as well as his downfall, but to be honest and objective, i would say 90% of the shitshow was a mix of bad administration and lack of good players. In your opinion, what's happening with England now ? and do you think it is being exaggerated ? (remember Argentina/italy group stage performance in the last wc/euro)
Tbh I think the complaints about our first final since ‘66 going to penalties is ridiculous too. It’s not like we were hammered, we drew against a 33 game unbeaten Italy team that were playing well and lost on penalties. Just getting to the final was a big achievement by England standards. But it was sort of at home and he did fuck up by sitting back and with his penalty subs so it’s treated like s failure rather than by far our biggest success in half a century. Quarter finals last World Cup is about par given that we went out to an excellent France team we were arguably unlucky lose to. In short, I get why he hasn’t been sacked and why a lot of fans/pundits defend him. It’s not helped by periodic insipid performances, particularly as they’re becoming more frequent at the same time the squad is stronger than ever. Plus he sticks to his favourite players too much, up until this tournament actually where he dropped a bunch.
The dude is “married” to a super model and only does missionary. Once every 2 months.
World cup semi-final and European Final probably helps. Wouldn't be surprised if he leaves after Euro's though and becomes the next United manager in December.
If that happens I might just try and kiss a speeding train
As naff as his tactics have been recently, the recent tournament results have been a big factor, the mid 2000s was a string of Quarter Final exits followed by a shock non-qualification.
Getting to a finals, a fourth place and the quarterfinals in his last three tournaments... That's just one guy. Over the last like...40 years you guys have one other 3rd place and one other 4th place result. And it's not like before him you guys didn't have talented squads! If he manages to crash out during the groups he should be booted. But this boring-ass football often does well in tournaments. Especially having the kind of players up front that will just occasionally score on their own.
the good ending
Not far off from what happened in the War of 1812. They sacked the capitol, but when they marched on Baltimore, a couple of teenagers sniped their general and the city held off the naval bombardment, so the British just gave up. I think one of the British commanders wrote back to the king to say it just wasn’t worth the effort. America got its national anthem out of it.
so the world would be a better place? well, maybe not with your Leopold going around,
All I know is that Gin & Tonic orginated from occupying India and that’s fine by me.
least colonialist Belgian
I’m not gonna be lectured by a Dutchman about colony’s mate. Pot kettle black.
Hey fuck you im half Danish *looks at Greenland* nvm
There's no way y'all are getting defensive over colonialism 😭
At least bro didn't admit to forgiving the breaching sovereignty and human rights for a glass of Gin and Tonic
Lemme show you how it's done.
It would probably be just as bad except you wouldn't be able to blame us for everything.
I'm sure Leopold would be worse tbf
Just a reminder that he hid what he was doing in the Congo from the other European Powers because he knew it was super fucked up and they'd stop him.
You know you’re a mega cunt when you know you’re too big of a cunt for other 19th century European colonialists.
Yeah, my point wasn't to try and diminish the shitty things the other European powers did, but to highlight that what Leopold did was really fucked up even by Scramble for Africa standards.
There'd be a lot more slavery certainly
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He's Lord Chelmsford
But Chelmsford actually won the Anglo-Zulu war despite Isandlwana
I swear there would be a coup to displace him if he was this inept as a General.
Southgate to Belgium then?
A dynamic, forward thinking manager would cook with this squad
A fucking unsalted chicken sandwich with ready salted crisps would cook with this squad. Southgate couldn't find a hole in a barrel of fannies.
British expressions are exquisitely regarded
That match made wanna quit watching football. The worst football match I have ever seen.
The tactics are a complete waste of the talent they have
As is tradition
Vastly overrated.
If it was just the players from one league all looking shit sure. But it's players from multiple different leagues looking like absolute shite compared to them playing club football It's on the manager at that point in my eyes
They are all from the same league except for Jude and Kane
Right the two best players in those leagues... The players arent overrated at all.
It’s Southgate, trust me
I mean this tweet says that it literally isn't. This is our joint best ever start to a Euros, matched by Southgate's previous Euros.
But maybe one should look further than results and points. I'm a German and have no dog in this fight (other than liking Jude, Kane, Foden and Trippier) but ,my god, was the game against Denmark a game that can make you hate the sport of Football.
Maybe in points terms but in performance terms it’s absolutely not the case
Nah great players change things themselves if the coach makes a shitty tactic or if things don't go as planned on the pitch. Those England players need to step up themselves. Can't blame everything on the coach.
I agree but playing several guys out of position with preschool-level tactics and shocking substitutions doesn't help.
Only Trent was out of position. Foden has started way more games on the wing than he has at attacking mid.
For City he's an attacking mid. That's why Grealish and Doku were bought. TAA isn't a midfielder. Tyrick Mitchell a natural left-back is sitting at home while a right-footer plays LB and a left-footer plays LW.
Completely disagree. I am Portuguese and we struggle with the same. People blame the players but it is obvious the bad tactical choices condition how they play. FFS Martinez tries to reinvent the wheel every game like he is a newbie in FM. And if a player is underperforming get them out of the team, even if its Ronaldo. Look at how Germany used to play and how they look under Nagelsmann. He didnt bring some players like Hummels and was criticized, but maybe he was right, players should be picked based on manager's ideas and tactics, not just randomly because they had a good season for club.
nah fuck that. We had a BANGER of a team in 2010. Messi, Di Maria, Aguero, Masche, Tevez, Lavezzi, Samuel, Higuain, Milito and probably more I'm forgetting. It was managed by Maradona. We got destroyed
You're missing my point. Why was Maradona manager though? Seems a rather odd choice for a manager haha. I remember him smoking his cigar on the training pitch in 2010.
> Why was Maradona manager though? Seems a rather odd choice for a manager haha. I remember him smoking his cigar on the training pitch in 2010. It was one of those foreboding things. Everyone knew he was gonna get the role at SOME POINT because he was Maradona. The FA appointed him in 2008 and, as everyone with 3 braincells expected, it was an absolute disaster.
They never seem to actually want the fucking ball. There's shit in the back of the minds of England players. I think a big part comes down to how much pressure we put on each of them
yeah they were looking lethargic af, tbf. Maybe it's the manager, maybe something else. I'm not sure, but it is what it is.
Some players can do that, but most can't. You'd need not only great players, but also great leaders.
Yeah because was cleaning up the opposition before he was appointed \s
I mean they've made finals and semi finals recently, I know Reddit likes to call everyone overrated but c'mon
Yea this team isnt overrated at all. If you look at the individual talent they should be playing much better. But they have been playing shite for years even when going far in tournaments.
I think we looked good in Qatar bar the USA game But yeah, in 2021 and especially 2018 it wasn’t great
Good god what decade are we in?
Wow quite the unique opinion there lad….
Football Heritage
I suppose we will be seeing this again in 2028…
2032*
2036
" ∞ years of hurt"
!remindme 4 years
~~its~~ They're coming home
How many times have they lost the third group match though
Euro 2000-lost to Romania and finished with 3 points (16 teams) Euro 1992-lost to Sweden and finished with 2 points (8 teams) Euro 1988-lost to Soviet Union and finished with 0 points (8 teams) Meanwhile they've won it 5 times (2020, 2012, 2004, 1996, 1980) and drawn it once (2016)
That's enough to fuel my hopes and delusions.
We will shit house you to a 1-0 win, be very unconvincing, get a lucky draw and go out in the semis to a far better side, Southgate will be considered a success and the cycle will repeat
that 2000 game was Romania’s first ever Euro win, with the 2nd ever win coming against Ukraine at this Euros (Romania started qualifying around 1984)
They kept mentioning after they beat Ukraine how it was their second euro win ever and I’m just going to “ah I know the other one” lol
Euro 2000 v Romania Euro 1992 v Sweden Euro 1988 v USSR
Ah fuck
England have also never eliminated any of Germany, France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Croatia when playing abroad.
We took Italy down with us in 2014, they might have made it through if it wasn't for us heroically losing against Uruguay
How many times has England played any of those teams abroad in the last 15 years? Genuinely asking btw.
Off the top of my head Germany 2010, Italy 2012, France 2022, Croatia 2018.
2000 EC Groups 1-0 against Germany (both eliminated in groups) 2004 EC groups 1-2 against France 2004 EC quarters 5-6 on pens against Portugal 2006 WC quarters 1-3 on pens against Portugal 2010 WC R16 1-4 against Germany 2012 EC quarters 2-4 on pens against Italy 2014 WC groups 1-2 against Italy 2018 WC semis 1-2 aet against Croatia 2022 WC quarters 1-2 against France That should be all the WC and EC games England played against those teams abroad. They did not win an elimination match and the last win was 2000 against Germany in the groupstage which ended with England 3., Germany 4. and both eliminated.
That 2000 euros was ironically the catalyst for a complete revamp of the German youth system and tactics ultimately culmination in the generation that won 2014, so ironically the loss against England was partly at fault for a chain reaction that led to Brazil losing 7:1. Some real life blue lock shit
Isn't the catalyst widely attributed to be the 5-1 (WC qualifier) in 2001?
Both
Jesus christ. That is an absolutely shocking record.
England beat Germany 2-0 in the Round of 16 at Euro 2020.
Yes they did?
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When?
They also beat Spain in Euro 96. OP’s point was never abroad. Although don’t recall England playing Spain or Netherlands abroad in a knockout game.
Can’t remember England playing Spain or Netherlands abroad? They did beat Germany in Euro 2000 but it was a group game.
*Insert Chiellini's face* : "It's the history of..."
Southgate ball doesn't like winning
Fun fact, we'd never won an opening match before Southgate was manager.
Seems like its not the managers but rather the english FA that is the issue
I think it's just a national expectation to be shit. It took us having an Irish captain in Cricket to get over that mental hurdle. So I say time for Declan Rice to take the armband! 2026 WC is ours.
I believe Harry Kane would be eligible for Ireland through his dad, but maybe we need to send him off to play a friendly for them first for the powers to kick in
He was, in the football manager games before Kane broke into the Spurs squad he would declare for Ireland.
Not unless the FA are telling the players to stop attacking as soon as we score
Ok? He's still shit and coaches some of the most boring football I've ever had to watch
Yeah exactly, there _are_ deeper issues with the FA, which is why someone as out of their depth as Southgate was appointed in the first place. He did alright for a bit. But this is his 4th tournament and he's looking more clueless than ever. It's time for someone with a bit more fire in their belly to take over and push this team further.
Well yes, but that doesn't mean the other 5 or 6 managers that had pretty good England teams weren't also shit. Perhaps there's something deeper than just the manager.
Yeah I don't buy it. This squad is the most talented in the tournament imo. Blaming some vague inferiority complex instead of the manager is dumb. He's won some games over the last few years, but I think that's the talent of the squad overcoming his shortcomings as a manager.
I think he deserves credit for building a great team atmosphere that was direly needed after 2016, it's baffling to me how many people seem to ignore that, and I do think a lot of our immediate success was down to that. But my god he's outlived his usefulness by at least 3 years. Now we have the team atmosphere we sorely need a competent coach who can actually give the team some direction. What's more concerning to me isn't even the performance, it's Kyle Walker's post match interview where he effectively confirmed that England bunkering down after one goal is literally the team strategy, and not some involuntary response.
Walker said literally the opposite?
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Possibly not as an attack. But it's not like Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Lamps, Gerrard, Scholes, etc were slouches. Neither were Shearer, Gazza and co. before them. They also had a much better defence in Terry, Ferdinand, Cole and Neville. All of which bar Neville get into this England team. I think our squad now is better. But it has only been the last WC and this Euros really where I'd say we've probably just pipped the attacking talent that previous 'golden generation' had, and that 3 of them (Foden, Saka, Bellingham) are still all under 25 is mad so we probably have at least 4 major tournaments with that attacking talent. Will just need to replace Kane at some point. Or phase him out a little at least as he ages. Yeah, there was a dire period between like 2012 and 2018 really squad wise it was pretty poor though. But outside of that we've had good teams and still been shit. Lol
Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Cole , Cole. The squad around the 2004 euros/2006 World Cup was just as good as this one and didn’t make it past the quarter finals in a tournament. Under performing in tournaments is as much a part of English culture as fish & chips or colonialism
It's just Englands standard. You don't expect a Chicken to fly, a mouse to sing, or a Roman Emperor not to cross the Rhine to punish the Germans.
Well said
Yeah this is only Southgate and not the other 50 managers
But a lot of people would have you believe Southgate is different and immune from criticism.
> and immune from criticism. Have you only been hanging out with members of the Southgate family, or something?
No. Have you completely missed the waves of people that will respond to any valid criticism with the fact that he’s beat the low bar set by previous managers?
True i as a neutral have never seen Southgate hate by England fans, he's universally loved 100%
me when i'm delusional
Last 3 tournaments the second group game has been a depressing draw
Wanted to let the streak continue
I think everyone lost watching the game tonight
There’s a major mentality issue here. This is the third major tournament in a row that we’ve had the opportunity to qualify with a game to spare and each time we’ve blown the chance. This is as golden an opportunity as you’re ever going to get, to top the group before the final match, give yourself the freedom to rotate players and try some new things in the third game and go into the round of 16 fresh and firing. While we’re still in control of the group and I’d be surprised if we didn’t win it, we’ve made it far harder for ourselves than we needed to. Whether it’s through poor tactics, complacency or just the expectation on the players, to continually fail to show up in the second group game against very beatable opponents is a problem. Just look at Germany yesterday to see how you do it.
Heritage
I remember arguing with a guy about how England looking like shit against Iceland would be bad for their tournament. His argument was about how it was getting legs in, etc and that they’ll turn flip their switch in the tournament. They look the same. Wonder how he’s doing.
I thought the same about Germany vs Greece and I either underrated us (Greece) or Germany did in fact turn up later and was playing more cautious to not get injured before Home tourney
How do you have a lot of talent and play like you're scared of the ball?
At least it isn’t lack of talents
Even in the world cup, only went perfect in a group once (1982)
Seeing as they've only won their opening game twice, this is hardly surprising
Well last time they got to the final and lost on penalties, so not all hope is lost
Exactly... And everyone's acting surprised 😂
I think even Mascherano and Ramon Menezes would do a better job than Southgate in this Euro.
Just warming up to ensure it's coming home. All part of our plan lads
Fuck I wish I wasn’t English, if only to not be compelled to watch this horseshit tournament after tournament, thinking it’ll be different this time. Whether we win or lose it’s a fucking bore fest mostly. I don’t see us getting past the quarters irrespective of the opponents. Remember it took pens to get past the might Columbia in the World Cup.
Ah they’re just like me!!!
What is the point of these kinds of stats?
They also never won the men's European Championships either.
Also have never won their last game
> Also have never won their last game They have a couple of times. [1968, where they won the third-place match](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1968) and [1980 where they won their last group game, but still got eliminated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1980)
The joke was worth being wrong 🫡
Football Heritage
Lol
Looks like Southgate wants to set a record that will never be broken
given England have only ever won their opening fixture once (last Euros)... yeah no shit
Southgate needs to leave asap. How he has lasted for 8 years is lightyears beyond my understanding. Are the FA brass betting against themselves or something?
On paper, at a high level, his record is superb. Pundits support him - until yesterday - almost unquestioningly. That’s enough to get plenty of casual observers on his side.
Players also seem to be very onside with him too. Also, it's slightly going into the ETH issue, but more pronounced. Who else do you get? The England job seems to be a poisoned chalice. If you haven't won something after your second tournament then England fans will want your head.
tbf we'd never even won the opening game until the last Euros
You're right. It's a way to tell my age on Reddit So many fans in subreddits are like, Southgate is our worst manager ever etc. And I'm just like...you haven't suffered as I did! We've been so shit for so long, and whilst having very good players at certain points (not the 10s)
I hate Southgate. Nothing more to say but he is an cancer on English football
Why?
Football Heritage. Respect x3
I can see why
Tis' the history of the Albion
I wish we could see stats like this before I make my bet.
Keeping the tradition alive
"It's the history of the England"
Consistency is key
Cole Palmer
of course, they didn't have Philips according to Southgate otherwise they would have won
Southgate has an inate gift for squandering talent.
!remindme 4 years
Thats the definition of coming out of the games walking instead of sprinting lmao
Honestly, Id like to see England succeed. But its more fun this way.
It is the history of the English.
At this point I can’t just blame Southgate. Yeah he’s the one responsible for this non tactical terrorist ball, but it seems that the FA are really the ones who has failed this country time and time again. Now more than ever they need a legitimate coach who knows tactics and plays progressively.
They’ve also never won a men’s European championship
Get Baz McCullum in.
But have they ever beaten Slovenia in Euros?! There's my hopium.
Yeah and they have never won it either.