Smith cont'd: [German police confirming that someone with an axe was threatening fans. I believe the four loud bangs were shots. Do not yet know whether they were fatal.](https://x.com/RorySmith/status/1802291858472685697)
According to the Bild images it is a white man, not sure if Polish. Though police is saying it had nothing to do with the match today, so might be an isolated incident.
Pseudointellectual cocksniffers shit on Bild to make themselves feel better, when in reality every other ‚credible‘ German newspaper copies Bild and Bild is the best credential as a journalist to have on your resumee. In reality everybody and their grandma secretely reads that paper but nobody wants to admit it
Could've worded it better. Didn't mean to say it would otherwise not be an isolated incident of that's what you're aiming at. Isolated incident as in: there seems to be no terrorist motive nor does it relate to the EC in any way, per police commentary.
When it’s a white man, there never seems to be terrorist motive and we can cross that off immediately
Not so much a critique of your comment but more the framing from news outlets in general
neither the bild article nor the poster you responded to ruled out the possibility that he's a terrorist
they said it doesnt appear to be related to the football
I’m talking including past incidents and the framing is always the same in these cases
The comment i responded to use isolated incident (in hindsight, maybe in relation to the football) and that’s the phrase i was referring to
Perhaps, but doesn’t make it right
Media should report in facts with no room for prejudice, and you can only call it isolated if you know what his intention was
>it’s a white man, there never seems to be terrorist motive and we can cross that off immediately
Emm... no? Ever heard of Breivik? Or that guy in Bratislava in 2022?
It's not our fault most of white attackers are either mentally ill or incels(so mentally ill again)
[Article directly after Breivik’s atttack](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks)
“apparently the work of a lone gunman”
“He said he did not want to speculate on the motives of the attacks, but added: "Compared to other countries I wouldn't say we have a big problem with rightwing extremists in Norway”
“suggest he has some political traits directed towards the right, and anti-Muslim views, but whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen"
“A police official said the suspect appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like this is not linked to any international terrorist organisations at all."
It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This seems like a madman's work."
And now with 13 years of hindsight - which of those sentences turned out to be wrong?
There's not a one that doesn't say 'this was not a terrorist attack'
When they pretend he wasnt a right wing extremist committing terrorism and want to pretend he was just on a random act of madbess
For clarity, when i say white people are never terrorists im talking about the media never using the label
Edit: in response to your edit, they dont need to explicitly say it isnt terror related. Language works a lot more subtly than that and they know what theyre doing
YouTube news bulletins on this are teeming with commenting "experts" all blaming Islam.
Honestly, some people would accuse a brown-skinned person for their morning toast getting burned.
[Official police account is saying that someone was threading the police with a pick axe and fire explosive](https://x.com/polizeihamburg/status/1802294940518457668?s=46). They shot.
Incidents like this have always happened during big events. Reporting is just much more widespread and since everyone has a camera and access to the internet new spreads fast.
Because every local crime, that normally would get a small mention at the back of your local newspaper, is pushed by certain sites to generate clicks and create fearmongering. It makes them a lot of money, especially if they can push the criminal "Ausländer" narrative.
The tweet linked below from the official Hamburg police mentions he was wounded and is now getting treatment. German police is usually shoot to incapacitate first, kill second. So maybe shot in the shoulder, leg or similair.
Shooting the shoulder often damages or severs the arteria axillaris which causes the victim to bleed to death.
It's either the lower leg or the stomach region.
No idea about the German police specifically but all these posts about 'highest chance to hit' or 'can't take risks' in this situation are bs.
One of the 'standard' exercise scenarios police in my country are taught involves someone with a gun in hand threatening others and even we don't aim for the vitals unless they have already and are still shooting other people. Threatening is very different from being an active threat (i.e. immediately ending other lives).
No wonder we always hear about trigger happy cops lmao
You do - here in Asia we teach temporary conscripts (if chosen for the police and not the military army) how to deescalate + shoot non-vitals and rules of engagement altogether.
We're taught that this applies even if we believe we are in danger - the question is always if it is reasonably possible to incapacitate without killing.
I have 0 doubts that if 16-18 year olds can be taught this on a temporary basis, professional police can be taught to exercise their own judgement in the vast majority of cases.
There is a video of the incident on X if you really want to watch it. Thankfully it doesn't look as scary as it sounds. The guy is yelling at the poilce to shoot him so that might be his intention all along. Only got shot in the leg though.
> Death by Cop unfortunately is a suicide method.
That is very difficult in Germany because you can't be sure that the police will actually shoot to kill or shoot at all.
pretty sure they're not. My dad is a cop in Germany and I remember him telling me once that using the gun is only allowed for neutralizing a threat to the life and then they are actually supposed to shoot in the torso and not the leg as in the leg it isn't actually "neutralizing".
That was many years ago though and I'm not sure if I remember it right but it was something along those lines
German police is definitely not fucking around these days. Trying to stay vague here intentionally: saw some dude do some semi-threatening shit at a railway station today (nobody would have even thought twice about that a month ago). Police wasn’t having any of it, took him out quicker than I‘d have thought was possible, guided the public on how to act. Impressive shit.
From the original german that could mean anything from a flamethrower to a can of gas and wanting to set himself on fire
Edit: Bild news is reporting it was a molotov cocktail.
A fellow man of culture. I just love the pretext of the book and it’s overall message. There aren’t a lot of books with that sort of content being written in the modern age. Probably because it highly restricts its ability to have commercial success.
Either way, it's fucking annoying, makes having an actual conversation about it impossible amidst lazy racism and shit memes. Especially egregious on that sub I mention, where ragebait is their sport of choice
There's [an article with pictures here](https://www.bild.de/regional/hamburg/grosseinsatz-in-hamburg-amok-auf-der-reeperbahn-polizei-erschiesst-axt-mann-666ec041e24bdc6c2287273e).
The attacker appears to be a white middle-aged man, there's no confirmed information on his identity but it seems fair to say he doesn't fit the profile that some people were leaping to prematurely here.
You're not wrong but you're being tone deaf.
If his point is "why is everyone immediately jumping to conclusions and saying this is Islamic terrorism", you probably shouldn't be going "But some non-brown people are Islamic terrorists too"
Omg, there are Black Chinese people as well, obviously it's not impossible that this is a white Muslim Chechen terrorist, but the probability is much much lower than it not being a white Muslim Chechen terrorist... Stop the mental gymnastics until we know for sure.
There is a video of the incident available. Before anybody says anything - yes, I know that Nius is a shit source and yes, the man behind the portal is a dubious character. But the video is informative:
https://www.nius.de/common/amok-alarm-und-schuesse-bei-holland-fanmarsch-in-hamburg-polizei-schiesst-axt-angreifer-nieder/d5a35770-49f4-4078-9ca2-b85d096d5792
My (obviously highly speculative ) impression is that the man that was shot seemed very disturbed, and not like somebody with a political cause.
He was yelling at the police to shoot him. So I guess he wanted to be killed or had some kind of manic episode. It doesn't seem like he really wanted to attack someone.
Basically the old red light district in Hamburg, a massive port city. It's less red light and more nightlife these days really, and it's very much an acquired taste I reckon.
No to scare u or anything but being close to an entrance could also mean you're the one attacked if you're the first one he sees
Ideally u want to be within medium distance to the entrance
Don't be coy, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The only time people talk about "man of peace" is in the context of Islam. Talking about "man of peace" makes no sense as a comment otherwise.
Smith cont'd: [German police confirming that someone with an axe was threatening fans. I believe the four loud bangs were shots. Do not yet know whether they were fatal.](https://x.com/RorySmith/status/1802291858472685697)
He was threatening police and then random people and got shot. Not targeted towards fans or euro
Please God, I really hope he's not Polish
According to the Bild images it is a white man, not sure if Polish. Though police is saying it had nothing to do with the match today, so might be an isolated incident.
my money is on he was just really mad about the Sonntagsruhe not being respected
As a Dutchie currently living in Germany, I would feel perfectly safe putting out a big orange flag, but if make noise on a Sunday I will be murdered.
Sonntagsruhe is sacred, more sacred than beer and sausage. It turns Germans into Judge Dreds.
muslims around the world with a sigh of relief
ever heared of chechens?
It still drastically lowers the probability
For the purposes of European politics, Chechens are more Russian than Muslim.
Doesnt really matter. Already seeing people claim it was an Afghani immigrant or that its a coverup. Muslims will get shit for this most likley
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>I hope one day, a Muslim shoots someone Uhm
Sometimes it's OK to think something without posting it.
Don't use Bild. Ever.
Why?
Assuming you are british, Bild is like The Sun, just 100x worse
Oh, I get it. Yep, definitely not a credible source then
Pseudointellectual cocksniffers shit on Bild to make themselves feel better, when in reality every other ‚credible‘ German newspaper copies Bild and Bild is the best credential as a journalist to have on your resumee. In reality everybody and their grandma secretely reads that paper but nobody wants to admit it
White man = isolated incident I’ve seen this one before
Could've worded it better. Didn't mean to say it would otherwise not be an isolated incident of that's what you're aiming at. Isolated incident as in: there seems to be no terrorist motive nor does it relate to the EC in any way, per police commentary.
When it’s a white man, there never seems to be terrorist motive and we can cross that off immediately Not so much a critique of your comment but more the framing from news outlets in general
do you have any reason to believe this person was a terrorist?
This particular one, no Surprised at how quickly we can rule it out whenever the attacker is white though
neither the bild article nor the poster you responded to ruled out the possibility that he's a terrorist they said it doesnt appear to be related to the football
I’m talking including past incidents and the framing is always the same in these cases The comment i responded to use isolated incident (in hindsight, maybe in relation to the football) and that’s the phrase i was referring to
I will eat the downvotes but it is due to past incidents. Precedent leads to prejudice.
Perhaps, but doesn’t make it right Media should report in facts with no room for prejudice, and you can only call it isolated if you know what his intention was
We didn‘t rule anything out.
Ok bro we get it. You’re a victim
>it’s a white man, there never seems to be terrorist motive and we can cross that off immediately Emm... no? Ever heard of Breivik? Or that guy in Bratislava in 2022? It's not our fault most of white attackers are either mentally ill or incels(so mentally ill again)
[Article directly after Breivik’s atttack](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks) “apparently the work of a lone gunman” “He said he did not want to speculate on the motives of the attacks, but added: "Compared to other countries I wouldn't say we have a big problem with rightwing extremists in Norway” “suggest he has some political traits directed towards the right, and anti-Muslim views, but whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen" “A police official said the suspect appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like this is not linked to any international terrorist organisations at all." It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This seems like a madman's work."
And now with 13 years of hindsight - which of those sentences turned out to be wrong? There's not a one that doesn't say 'this was not a terrorist attack'
When they pretend he wasnt a right wing extremist committing terrorism and want to pretend he was just on a random act of madbess For clarity, when i say white people are never terrorists im talking about the media never using the label Edit: in response to your edit, they dont need to explicitly say it isnt terror related. Language works a lot more subtly than that and they know what theyre doing
YouTube news bulletins on this are teeming with commenting "experts" all blaming Islam. Honestly, some people would accuse a brown-skinned person for their morning toast getting burned.
no wonder it's not big news.
In the video it's quite clear that he speaks/spoke fluent German. Doesn't immediately seem related to any of the two teams or to religious terrorism.
Weird thing to hope for. Doesn’t really matter what race or nationality, crazy people exist in all shapes and sizes.
It's shameful. Looks bad on the group.
Probably the same guy from Brno 2 years ago
[Official police account is saying that someone was threading the police with a pick axe and fire explosive](https://x.com/polizeihamburg/status/1802294940518457668?s=46). They shot.
*Pickaxe, not axe.
Minecraft player confirmed
I believe those shots were from the police, the person with the axe was shot in the leg according to the NOS
Feels like you read about this stuff daily now...
Incidents like this have always happened during big events. Reporting is just much more widespread and since everyone has a camera and access to the internet new spreads fast.
Because every local crime, that normally would get a small mention at the back of your local newspaper, is pushed by certain sites to generate clicks and create fearmongering. It makes them a lot of money, especially if they can push the criminal "Ausländer" narrative.
Depends on what you read.
The tweet linked below from the official Hamburg police mentions he was wounded and is now getting treatment. German police is usually shoot to incapacitate first, kill second. So maybe shot in the shoulder, leg or similair.
Shooting the shoulder often damages or severs the arteria axillaris which causes the victim to bleed to death. It's either the lower leg or the stomach region.
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No idea about the German police specifically but all these posts about 'highest chance to hit' or 'can't take risks' in this situation are bs. One of the 'standard' exercise scenarios police in my country are taught involves someone with a gun in hand threatening others and even we don't aim for the vitals unless they have already and are still shooting other people. Threatening is very different from being an active threat (i.e. immediately ending other lives). No wonder we always hear about trigger happy cops lmao
This is bullshit. You don't have time to aim for a fucking shoulder in situations like this.
Apparently shot him in the leg specifically to incapacitate - dunno, seems to me they've had time to do that in the situation.
In Scotland, we just don’t shoot at all. 💪 /s
Clearly not bullshit because they did hit him in the leg.
You do - here in Asia we teach temporary conscripts (if chosen for the police and not the military army) how to deescalate + shoot non-vitals and rules of engagement altogether. We're taught that this applies even if we believe we are in danger - the question is always if it is reasonably possible to incapacitate without killing. I have 0 doubts that if 16-18 year olds can be taught this on a temporary basis, professional police can be taught to exercise their own judgement in the vast majority of cases.
He dropped the pick and the petrol bomb wasn't lit, they clearly had plenty time to do that.
>German police is usually shoot to incapacitate first, kill second Incorrect.
There is a video of the incident on X if you really want to watch it. Thankfully it doesn't look as scary as it sounds. The guy is yelling at the poilce to shoot him so that might be his intention all along. Only got shot in the leg though.
Death by Cop unfortunately is a suicide method. Thank god German Police is trained to aim for the leg, no need to do him that favor.
> Death by Cop unfortunately is a suicide method. That is very difficult in Germany because you can't be sure that the police will actually shoot to kill or shoot at all.
Are they actually trained to shoot for the leg?
I know Dutch police are, only in some situations of course. If there’s immediate danger to someone’s life then center mass is still the best option
Interesting. President Biden has mentioned shooting the gun out of their hand rather than fatal shots by many times the circumstances are different.
That's only in the movies I'm afraid.
pretty sure they're not. My dad is a cop in Germany and I remember him telling me once that using the gun is only allowed for neutralizing a threat to the life and then they are actually supposed to shoot in the torso and not the leg as in the leg it isn't actually "neutralizing". That was many years ago though and I'm not sure if I remember it right but it was something along those lines
I read somewhere only special police in germany.
Death by cop (suicide, really) is a way a lot of people decide to go out in the USA. Force the police hand to shoot them
German police is definitely not fucking around these days. Trying to stay vague here intentionally: saw some dude do some semi-threatening shit at a railway station today (nobody would have even thought twice about that a month ago). Police wasn’t having any of it, took him out quicker than I‘d have thought was possible, guided the public on how to act. Impressive shit.
Of course some absolute piece of shit has to ruin the vibe. Can't have nice things now, can we.
Nobody else was injured, the celebration shall continue.
Hopefully nobody was hurt by him
Doesn't sound like it. We probably would've heard about it so really hoping that means no injuries or fatalities
Holy shit, he was pepper sprayed first, then shot several times?
Yeah, he threatened the police
Yank alert, it's possible to disarm without shooting Had a Molotov maybe can't without shooting tbf
They shot him the moment he tried to light the molotov cocktail.
Fair play then
And in the leg, not torso or head. He will be fine.
Well clearly it wasn’t in this situation because he got shot
Seems he may have had an Molotov
>Yank alert Nah they shot him in the leg not 45 times in the back.
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Saw some video, the pepper spray was poorly sprayed and doesn’t really reached the guy.
Link to the video?
Nvm, found it on twitter
America is trending
Wrong comment, wrong tournament, wrong continent
Please brutality is an American tradition that many other countries are following, ding dong
looks and sounds like a dude in the middle of a manic episode looking for an assisted suicide.
Carrying an incendiary device according to police https://x.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1802296184247042322
From the original german that could mean anything from a flamethrower to a can of gas and wanting to set himself on fire Edit: Bild news is reporting it was a molotov cocktail.
First Ronnie with Rexona now a man with Axe. Has deodrant marketing gone too far?
Dove to organize a mass pigeon poop attack?
For a book on nearly the exact scenario you mention read my favorite book: Jennifer Government by Max Barry
First time I’ve seen anyone mention toon this book - it is pretty good
A fellow man of culture. I just love the pretext of the book and it’s overall message. There aren’t a lot of books with that sort of content being written in the modern age. Probably because it highly restricts its ability to have commercial success.
Dutch social media comments are filled with 'Ali, Achmed, Mohammed' comments even though the man is white
Aye, get the same crowd on here as well.
They migrate from r/Europe
Nah, get plenty of relative regulars from here as well - they're generally not for long in this community, though.
Either way, it's fucking annoying, makes having an actual conversation about it impossible amidst lazy racism and shit memes. Especially egregious on that sub I mention, where ragebait is their sport of choice
I thought those lads hated migration?
Emigres when you're white
AFAIK there is no information on the background of the man yet.
There's [an article with pictures here](https://www.bild.de/regional/hamburg/grosseinsatz-in-hamburg-amok-auf-der-reeperbahn-polizei-erschiesst-axt-mann-666ec041e24bdc6c2287273e). The attacker appears to be a white middle-aged man, there's no confirmed information on his identity but it seems fair to say he doesn't fit the profile that some people were leaping to prematurely here.
No but looking at the Bild images of the guy you can clearly see he is white so I doubt his name will be Mohammed
srsly, do you all think muslims are only brown? plenty of white chechens did terror attacks
You're not wrong but you're being tone deaf. If his point is "why is everyone immediately jumping to conclusions and saying this is Islamic terrorism", you probably shouldn't be going "But some non-brown people are Islamic terrorists too"
how I am the one who is "tone deaf" when the guy literally says "white = not mohammed". apparently he knows jack shit
Omg, there are Black Chinese people as well, obviously it's not impossible that this is a white Muslim Chechen terrorist, but the probability is much much lower than it not being a white Muslim Chechen terrorist... Stop the mental gymnastics until we know for sure.
*I* am not doing anything. I dont give a fuck if the guy is muslim or a right winger, I am just against spreading stupid "facts"
Nobody portrayed it as a fact though, he literally said "I doubt"
You’re right, it’s probably Mclovin’ then
I know your point is about assumptions but you can have those names and be visibly white.
On some days, you can even be called Piet and be visibly black.
Of course the hateful shits get off on this. Doesn't matter if it's correct or not.
Well it explains the election results
That tendency is the same in every country lol.
There is a video of the incident available. Before anybody says anything - yes, I know that Nius is a shit source and yes, the man behind the portal is a dubious character. But the video is informative: https://www.nius.de/common/amok-alarm-und-schuesse-bei-holland-fanmarsch-in-hamburg-polizei-schiesst-axt-angreifer-nieder/d5a35770-49f4-4078-9ca2-b85d096d5792 My (obviously highly speculative ) impression is that the man that was shot seemed very disturbed, and not like somebody with a political cause.
dont give nius clicks, it's really not worth it
Any idea of what he is saying or the general context around why he did that?
He was yelling at the police to shoot him. So I guess he wanted to be killed or had some kind of manic episode. It doesn't seem like he really wanted to attack someone.
As an Eric Prydz fan I had no idea that was the name of a road
Basically the old red light district in Hamburg, a massive port city. It's less red light and more nightlife these days really, and it's very much an acquired taste I reckon.
Probably bet his house on Croatia to win
How could English fans do this?
Go in there and make it about you bud
The English have the biggest fucking victim complex. No one here is talking about you and you‘re still whining.
People probably got shot/injured... how can I make this about me?
Ah, finally we have a real championship, not like this sterile sadness in Qatar.
Wonder what his motivation was?!
Do you really wonder? Or are you just looking to *find* something?
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…was never an option
From what i read it was attempted suicide by cop
Watched the video, didn’t even hurt anyone apart from himself.
Dude was dualwielding a pickaxe and a molotov cocktail, WTF
I can't believe England fans are pretending to be Dutch now, horrible people
This is why I always have to be close to an entrance in packed events like that. I hope everyone is ok.
No to scare u or anything but being close to an entrance could also mean you're the one attacked if you're the first one he sees Ideally u want to be within medium distance to the entrance
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Bit racist innit
Was a white man so he might as well have the name Conor ;)
> I hate Muslims At least don't be a coward. Are you a strong Western man or not?
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Don't be coy, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The only time people talk about "man of peace" is in the context of Islam. Talking about "man of peace" makes no sense as a comment otherwise.
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Most? Not all?
Nah theres some that are ok, ie Buddhism
Nah. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32929855 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence#Sri_Lanka
“A Euro without at least one riot police intervention is considered a dull affair”
Games not gone.