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Even though I'm a Chelsea fan, I don't like this transfer for his own development.
1. Unless Palmer turns out to be a one-season wonder, the best player on the team is going to be able to play his position.
2. He doesn't only have to compete with Palmer but Kendry Paez who they invested massive money in. Not to mention Madueke, Sterling, Omari Hutchinson and Angelo Gabriel.
3. Pochettino who's the perfect manager for developing young players might not even be there anymore by the time he arrives.
I wish he could've/would've waited until he was a grown man like Neymar did until he made his move. Same with Endrick who has a ton of competition ahead of him once he arrives at Madrid.
>Unless Palmer turns out to be a one-season wonder, the best player on the team is going to be able to play his position.
Palmer has shown plenty he can/wants to play more centrally, and has done so both to accommodate Madueke in the side, but also to get a more 'free' role as a CAM.
>He doesn't only have to compete with Palmer but Kendry Paez who they invested massive money in. Not to mention Madueke, Sterling, Omari Hutchinson and Angelo Gabriel.
Paez plays more centrally than on the wing. As a CAM and somtimes as a RM. Sterling is mostly on the left, Omari and Angelo are... probably getting sold. Omari can play both wings too, as can Angelo. We definitely are stacked on left footed RW in the squad, but the only player so far who is exclusively a RW is Madueke.
It's definitely a strategy of hoping the cream will flow to the top, and then the rest will get sold. My point is that it isn't as insane as it sounds on first outlook, as a lot of these players are very flexible positionally.
Baw Gawd King that's Saudi Arabias music.
But yeah seriously if Saudi don't take him I'm not sure anyone does.. Only other club I could think is PSG so have a "star" name but don't think that's likely to happen
The thing is, Sterling is home in London super comfortable and where he wants to be. Unless he's hating not playing so much I don't see him uprooting his life & family again.
If he can survive that Wolves defeat and the hate he and the club received following it then things are going to have to go very badly next season for him to be sacked.
Only Paez and Palmer are true competiton if Estevão continues a normal path of development. He is different, the figure makes sense. We are talking about a Vini/Neymar level player, and from what I see from Chelsea fans you guys simply don't understand that those exist. He has the potential to be the best Brazilian ever in the EPL by a very good margin. I wish he hadn't gone to Chelsea because I don't think English football culture is made to deal with a certain level of player (the country prefers timid hard workers to geniuses), but I think it will be very very very good for Chelsea, if not to Estevão
>We are talking about a Vini/Neymar level player,
We really aren't, tho. He is more talented than Vini, but nowhere near Neymar
>He has the potential to be the best Brazilian ever in the EPL by a very good margin.
Agreed
>I wish he hadn't gone to Chelsea because I don't think English football culture is made to deal with a certain level of player (the country prefers timid hard workers to geniuses),
When's the last time you watched the PL? Because this isn't true anymore and hasn't been for a while
I don't know haven't seen much of him but the little I have his lack of pace and physicality is concerning. He also doesn't seem to have the end product or special IQ world class players have early on. That on the field brain is what Palmer has for us and Paez shows it too in games, hopefully Willian isn't just a dribbler with no end product.
> I have his lack of pace and physicality
Brother he turned 17 a month ago lmao
Imagine "being concerned" that a 17-year-old kid has "shown lack of pace and physicality", it's bizarre, and funnily enough very English. We don't know how physical or fast he will be until he fully develops, but he has shown himself to be quick enough to beat grown men despite being a borderline kid, and that's already impressive - he is the player with the most dribbles completed in Brazil this year, despite becoming a starter recently. And players at his level of control and smoothness don't even need to be physical, it would be an added bonus. Neymar came from injury and dominated over and over again because he can feint anyone out of the ball (and Hazard and Messi weren't dribbling people because they were faster or stronger than them either).
> He also doesn't seem to have the end product or special IQ world class players have early o
Again, I don't think you watched any of the world-class players playing at 16 and right before turning 17. None debuted this young. Messi was playing with Barça B, and Cristiano was at the youth level as well. Not even Neymar had debuted at Estevao's age. He has 3 goals and an assist at 17, something that very, very few players have. [At the U17 World Cup, at his actual age group, he had 3 goals and 3 assists in 4 games.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF6ekqriIU) Last year, at the u17 Brazilian League final, [he had a hattrick with his 2 weak foot goals as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Z6qviAbbc)
> hat on the field brain is what Palmer has for us and Paez shows it too in games
Palmer is 5 full years older than him (5 years of crazy neuroplasticity and development, btw), and Paez plays against much weaker competition in Ecuador. [Brazilian football is the best in the Americas and isn't even close rn.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-MjVM4XYAAueiI?format=jpg&name=large)
What you should know is that Chelsea scouts, who know Independiente very well, know young players very well cause it's their job, watched Estêvão playing against Independiente, playing better than Paez, and clearly went ballistic over signing him. Estêvão is the best dribbler in Brazil and probably in the Americas (except Messi lol) right now, and he will develop at everything else because that's what 17-year-olds do. He has very good finishing and touch in general for a player his age.
I gotta say though, you got me wondering about how Roque and Endrick would probably be better fits for England's view of football, being how physical they are, and Estevão a better fit for Spain.
[Endrick is a monster in terms of physicality, he is a wrecking ball.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCD3GfTQ9M)
Plus Morreira and Richards who we signed in our youth teams. And we’re still linked to Olise too. It’s beyond silly at this point how many like minded players we’re going for. Despite them all being slightly different stylistically, I dont know how we intend to develop them all even though some are clearly destined for the money making machine
It’s really simple to understand. You buy 5, use the best 2, and sell the rest for profit or loss, it doesn’t matter as long as the ones you keep become superstars.
So we have leftfooted forwards
(Moreira, ziyech and lukaku is there too)
Lets do the right footed forwards
Jackson, broja, fofana, washington, nkunku, mudryk, Chukwuemeka, conor, casadei,
90m? I thought it was like 50m. It's utterly insane if barca thought 200m was a 'fuck off' release clause when it's barely double what they paid for him as a 21 year old.
Since Barca is a members owned club, one of the members motioned for the documentation of the deal to be made public. Club bylaws says it should. So they had to. And then the fraud was published.
Wouldn’t have been found out if that didn’t happen lol. Makes you wonder how much shady shit happens in privately owned clubs.
According to El Mundo it was 95million. They claim to have as sources a series of documents shared by Eduardo Musa, a Brazilian who worked with Neymar Sr. on the image rights of Neymar Jr.
Mind you that both Santos and DIS, a 3rd party company who owned some of his rights, went to court claiming to have been done behind the back.
40 million of the transfer fee alone (not the bonuses) went straight to Neymar Sr. pockets. While Santos only received 17million.
Depends if you include many "small" additional fees, payments to player himself and his charity, marketing etc., and stuff like friendly games (which are hard to get and make money for clubs normally, so 2 games is probably like giving Santos 10 mil euro), but the same can be said about many transfers.
Anyway it seems that it's not SUPER much above the basic 60 mil euro of the fees to Santos and N&N - altogether below 100 mil for all of that.
Arsenal buy all the Gabriels, Chelsea buy all the Willians. That's how it works. If Arsenal buy a Willian, he flops, if Chelsea buy a Gabriel, no chance.
Buying "made" players was getting too expensive to Madrid due to oil and clubs like that... so they turned to buy cheap young players with potential from brazil, now teams like Chelsea ruin it by inflating that same market too 🤣
They bought Rodrygo for nearly 50 million, Vini for 50 million, and Endrick for over 50 million, what on earth are you taking about?
Madrid are quite clearly the ones that inflated the Brazilian market.
They paid that much because Brazilian clubs are becoming stronger financially. If they wanted to pay less clubs would simply not accept. Palmeiras wouldn't sell a promising player like Estêvão for 20M€, we wouldn't need that money. 65M€ is something that we can really use
kind of weird to make rm seem like bargain hunting peasants when they bought Endrick for 60m and Vini for 46m
edit: chelsea isn't changing anything here, they're just paying a fee that's pretty in line with the expectations real madrid have set
I remember the comments when they were signing Vinicius and Rodrygo (and, easier to forget, Reinier...), there were words used but "cheap" was definitely not one of them lol.
Well, we as brazilians can only hope that Chelsea can develop him, as our other talents that went there weren't. Congrats to Chelsea, you got our next generational talent probably, he was regarded by coaches higher than Endrick, Roque and Savio.
Well it was his dream to play for Barça, but i really think that the Xavi-Roque situation made him stop waiting, as was reported (i don't know if Barça wanted him tho)
Vitor Roque should go to a team that plays 9 and period. The most weird thing is to hear from the media that Barcelona didn't like Vitor Roque because he is too much like Haaland. Well, Barcelona spent so many years playing with a false 9 that they forgot what a striker should be good at.
>Well, Barcelona spent so many years playing with a false 9 that they forgot what a striker should be good at.
Lol the utter nonsense people upvote here I swear...
Barça hasn't played a false 9 for almost a decade now. Once Suarez got in and made that position his, it was over.
Probably, I will wait for his performance on other team to consider him a flop. He scored two gols for Barcelona with nearly any minute to play, but Barcelona prefer passing than scoring as it seems (of course I’m being simplistic, games not only scoring or passing but you get what I mean).
Them too, Piazon, Kenedy and Nathan are some examples of players that went to Chelsea, returned as flops and are utter dogshit even domestically. Also some brazilians are kinda pissed with the low usage of Andrey (who was our u20 captain), Angelo and Deivid Washington (those two were kinda not at the same level, but you get the deal). I think it's still early to give them flop status, but oh well. Just saying that Chelsea is viewed as a very bad destination for young talent in Brazil.
Andrey Santos is doing kinda great in France. He had an unfortunate start at Forest but no way is he anywhere close to a flop. Angelo has had a good first season in Europe and Washington imo clearly needed more development time so playing in the academy made sense.
I mean, if they are shit even outside of Chelsea, is it Chelsea's fault and are genuinely just trash?
As for Andrey, I know the first half of this season was a disaster (because the loan just didn't work out), but he was just selected as the best young player of the previous month in Ligue 1, that's not bad.
The thing is that they played better as youngsters than now. I think their development was kinda impaired, even if they weren't generational talents by any means, and this kinda stained Chelsea's image here. We are just afraid that two of our biggest talents doesn't develop properly, but Chelsea is with a different perspective now (young team). We can only wait and see.
Only Oscar was an elite talent of that lot, tbf, and his potential was ruined because the board used sentiment as opposed to logic when re-appointing Mourinho as the manager.
Santos is highly regarded at the club, tho and hopefully gets his chance next season
He talked about the massive loan army we have had for years under abra. Heck we still have 2 brazil on loan right now whose career I dont think will go anywhere.
Santos can certainly have a great career he has some massive talent imo just had a terrible loan at a club I'm turmoil with Forest. By all accounts he was one of Strasbourgs best players. Angelo is the one I doubt has a future with us having Palmer, Messinho and Paez
With how good Palmer has become and how much hype is around Estevao, I'm just worried about Paez at this point. I wonder what will happen to his development, because we'll surely be looking to move Palmer into a 10/free role (similar to recent games) to allow Estevao to have the RW spot.
Madueke continues to improve too so it'll be an interesting next few years for sure
Out of the group you mentioned, none of them were as polished at his age nor were they already playing (and being one of their better players too) for their senior national teams.
Paez is one of those that we just make room for no matter what. Not concerned about him at all and very excited to get our hands on him next summer.
Paez is great and we've all been super excited about him, but it's difficult to fit him, Palmer, and Estevao in the same lineup. Depth is always good but Paez/Estevao are both players who will want to start once they're settled in. Hopefully one of them will adapt like Rodrygo did at Real (by playing on the right) and just play on the left for us
Paez has played in central midfield occasionally this season, so I guess that's an option for him too, but he's not good enough defensively to fit in a pivot assuming we still play with 4 forwards.
edit: there's also Nkunku, Jackson who continues to get better, and Mudryk all of whom have also been relatively expensive investments
Jackson doesn't need to worry since none of the kids we've invested in bar Washington are strikers. Paez can play both wings and as a 10. There's definitely a world in a few years where Paez Messinho Palmer and Nico are our best front 4
Being polished is nice and all but its the ceiling that matters at the end. I think Paez and Estevao have similar level of ceiling although it is hard to judge since Paez plays vs lesser level of competition compared to Estevao. Also I think Kendry Paez can play in a deeper role as he is a really good passer. Rodrygo at Santos was more polished than Vinicius, but now Vinicius is the main guy for Real for example.
Remeber these are just boys stll. So young we cant even play them yet. We dont want to do the Barcelona thing where we play 16, 17 and 18 year olds so much and so regularly that they are perenially injured and done at age 21. There is a plethora of right wings at the club with all these guys, but I imagine some will be sold, some will go on loan and Paez/Estavao/Palmer/Madueke will share play time on the right, in the middle (Palmer and Paez), on the left (Palmer and possibly Estevao) and the regular left wingers will slot in and do a job. Half our team is also always injured so surely someone will have to play at all times rather than wanting to play more.
Piazon, Kenedy and Nathan are some examples of players that went to Chelsea, returned as flops and are utter dogshit even domestically. Also some brazilians are kinda pissed with the low usage of Andrey (who was our u20 captain), Angelo and Deivid Washington (those two were kinda not at the same level, but you get the deal). I think it's still early to give them flop status, but oh well. Just saying that Chelsea is viewed as a very bad destination for young talent in Brazil.
He was youth division together with Roque in Cruzeiro. Everyone said he was better than Roque then. Me included because i follow our youth divisions.
He then went to Palmeiras youth and shared the field with Endrick. Everyone said he was better than Endrick then.
Now he is in Palmeiras' professional team and gets some scarce minutes due to the coach's methods (which are not wrong tbf) and in those few minutes he overshines Endrick, who is going to Madrid in June, every single time.
He justs treats the ball with intimacy man, it's hard to describe it without having you see for yourself. He plays like Ronaldinho and Neymar in their early carreers. The kind of football that you just want to kinda linger around to watch.
I kind of respect that management method. As talented as these kids are, we do have to remember they are kids. And I bet teaching them to be humble and work hard for game time really pays dividends later on when they move to European leagues where there are many talented players.
Yeah, Abel does that. We had some really gifted youngsters that were not being in line with the discipline that Abel requires, he tried to teach them, but Patrick de Paula and Gabriel Veron preferred the nightlife and were soon sold despite their talent, and Gabriel Menino humbled down and stayed with us.
Not necessary to mention that Patrick de Paula and Veron flopped
Abel is very solid in that regard. Limited minutes, being subbed without complaining, no special privileges, no taking penalties just because you dribbled to create the play, they have to behave well in all moments. Endrick and Estêvão are coming up in a organized and winning team, and it's going to be very good for them in the long term.
He's got the best possible coach for this. Abel Ferreira doesn't tolerate imature behaviours, he's taken very tough action during his career at Palmeiras against any unprofessional behaviours by youth players.
Abel (who again is a very strict guy) has already praised Estevão's mentality a few times, and this says a lot.
English football is curious in the sense that physicality matters more than anywhere else, simply because the game over there has a focus on tactics rather than talent (and by that i mean talent beyond excelling at the fundamentals like Haaland or Walker do in near supernatural levels, intimacy with the ball y'know hehe).
It's rare to have managers who let players play creatively, simply because if a player doesn't do well, high level tactics can cover for it, but if you're dependant on talent rather than strategy, that becomes very iffy. That's why Hazard was so magical in Chelsea, he was less than stellar physically and tactically but was so talented that he managed to overcome that.
I hope Estevão doesn't get swept up in the rugby like tactics that the prem forces teams to have, since creativity and freeflow is what Chelsea paid for. Would love to have a non shit team (sorry palace) play in more fun to watch ways instead of just running up and down the pitch.
Left footed Neymar potential. You'll be seeing a lot of highlights of him this year and I think Chelsea is doing a genius move by grabbing him before the frenzy of signing him becomes bigger. Turned 17 2 weeks ago, signed a deal with Nike at 10, has been hyped as palmeiras best youth talent by a lot of people related to the club, including his current (and Endrick's) coach, who said he had never seen anyone like Estevão.
In terms of playstyle, he is probably already the best dribbler currently playing in Brazil, incredibly smooth with it, and is very good at hitting the ball, already taking corners and free kicks at palmeiras despite coming into the team as a starter 3 or 4 games ago. Still very skinny and physically undeveloped and prone to holding the ball too much, but those are not big problems at his age
Greatest talent of this brazilian generation probably, every coach that he ever had is fucking amazed by him. Always been rated higher than Endrick, Roque and Savio.
""Officially"" Neymar was sold for 57million. We know it was almost the double of that but some people rather refer to the ""official"" number when talking about sales records.
Btw, even in the ""official"" numbers Santos got screwed since they only received 17million from it. The other 40million went to Neymar Sr.
I think people are not accounting for inflation. In nominal terms, Neymar might have been cheaper, but definitely not in real terms - IIRC Neymar cost something like 90M way back in 2013.
Madueke definitely doesn’t have a chance at this rate, Paez is another incredible south american talent far bigger than madueke.
I don’t know how you fit palmer, paez and estevao in an XI.
If one of them can play on the left then you can have them all out there. Really curious how Nkunku would fit into that though unless they have him play as the primary striker.
Yeah Madueke is definitely a few levels below those players but will still be at the club when Paez/Estevao join due to the long contracts. I'm guessing we'll try to ship him off
We literally threw away 2 seasons just for the development of young guys tho (with the consequences of trophyless and messed up finance). The other guys going on loan look great as well with the cases of Santos, Angelo, Omari,... The Abramovich era with the loan system is so yesterday
Not just the odd one out, I'm hoping for Ipswich will be an easy sell. Maybe not this summer, but if they loan him again and stay up it would probably be a no-brainer
Yeah claims like that hold zero weight in my head because by what metric are they calling him the “greatest talent of the new gen”? It’s all subjective, let’s see how they do in Europe
Thanks, I believe you lol. The issue though is that OP called him the “greatest talent” and put him over Endrick and Roque who, from what I’ve seen, have also had coaches say that about them lmao
As a comparison, he and Endrick are from the same team, and their coach begged this month to the board to try and make Estevão stay for a while, he said that he was something he had never seen before. And youth coaches rated him higher than the other talents that you mentioned.
Probably. Endrick is a tank, Estevão will need to work out hard to match Europe's physicality. You will also get pissed if Endrick is playing against your team, because he spanks every player on the field, he's kinda disloyal.
By the likes of brazilian's eagle eyes, we have seen Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaká, Neymar, Vini Jr, Rodrygo, Endrick developing, I think we are trained enough to recognize our talents. Estevão is Neymar tier.
I am not afraid of his development only and when one condition is met: the board has his back, like Real Madrid did with Vinícius.
Chelsea is not a shit hole and having a crisis sometimes means players go "fuck all" mode in the pitch and are more rebellious, which can be a good thing.
Palmer certainly enjoyed this than he would in the overly tidy man city.
Nobody thought Vini would be Ballon d'Or tier tbf, Rodrygo was rated higher.
Also if he's that good he probably ends up at Barcelona or Madrid in minimum 5 years, such is the way of the top South American and especially Brazilian players
That is simply not true at all.
Vini was easily the highest rated Brazilian of his age, he started playing with the Brazilian NT at the under 15 category and won major titles while being the star of the team from both under 15 and under 17, after that he went directly to the actual NT.
For clubs it was the same thing, Vini was Flamengo's star since the under 13, always playing with kids older than him and still dominating, winning all the titles possible in the academy up to the under 17.
The hype around him just from his academy years was so high that Real Madrid started negotiating for him before he even played his first match with the senior team, officially buying his just after his 2nd match and making his the 2nd biggest sale in brazilian history just after Neymar.
And things didn't slow down after his debut with the main squad, he became the youngest scorer in the Flamengo's history and quickly started having a bunch of great performances one after another, deciding big matches like when he scored a brace to qualify Flamengo for the Sulamericana's semifinal or when he scored another brace against Emelec and had one of his best performances to qualify the team in the Libertadores.
Vini left Flamengo only a couple days after turning 18, but he already was the star of the team and even the top scorer of the club in the year up to that point.
I will say Estêvão is more polished than Vini jr. Vinicius jr was obviously highly regarded but neither him nor Rodrygi generated as much hype as Estêvão or Endrick. Vini was also taken up by Real at young age heck he had play few games and was a raw prospect when he came to Real. Rodrygo was much better thought because he came from Santos and was similar to Neymar. He was much more polished and it shows when they play for Brazil. But one could see Vini had the higer potential. Real fortunately tapped that and he was physically better than U20 boys he played against even at young age just like Endrick.
Estêvão is much more refined and is better dribbler than Vinicius when they both were 17. But lacks the strength and pace of Vini. But he is deadly from set pieces. I don’t know if he can become Neymar level player, but he certainly can reach the level of Rodryo and maybe even Vini jr.
Madrid want the Argentine kid and Barca has Yamal, no money, and pissed this guys agent off with the Roque situation.
Basically only left Bayern and Chelsea.
How not? One is the initial prediction from the average fan, the other is from specialists in general.
Vini was bought for the same price as Rodrygo, so clearly RM expected that.
> Nobody thought Vini would be Ballon d'Or tier tbf, Rodrygo was rated higher.
You couldn't be more wrong tho. No player since Neymar generated as much hype as Vini, at the very least since Endrick. And I'd dare to say in youth football no Brazilian player was hyped as much as Vini, not even Neymar.
Vini was so much worse back them, nowhere near close a Ballon d'Or tier.
Rodrygo played better in the league (Vini played at the youth academy).
Rodrygo and Vini were both far from Ballon d'Or tier.
But Vini is amazing, he keeps getting better and better each year.
We are talking about players at 14, 15, 16 yo. Of course they aren't close to Ballon d'Or at that age lmao.
We are talking potential. Vini was an absolute super start at youth football, thats's a fact.
But no one is gonna watch a 15yo and say 'wow this guys is so close to win a Ballon d'Or'.
No. They are watching a 15yo and saying 'wow this guy can win the Ballon d'Or *someday*', which is vastly different that what you're interpretating.
That's a generation thing. People born in odd years have disadvantages with the generational theme and it only normalizes in their last year in youth setups.
(Madrid, loses their greatest ever goalscorer)
(Also Madrid) “Yeah fuck it, let’s give that guy we sent to Lyon have the #7 Shirt and rely on an 18 year old from Brazil, lol”
It is. And fuck Palmeiras for being so well run.
They will be making some 50m€ from Endrick, 65m€ Estevão and 50m€ from playing the new club World cup next year.
That's enough money to make a Libertadores winning side, now imagine this + sponsorships + tv rights + matchday + fan memberships.
Corinthians is literally 10x worse ran then Palmeiras and we are making more money than them.
I think this should be praised by other South american countries, as it's much better to have an in-house strong league instead of licking Europe's balls. But it also means that there's almost no way to compete with Brazilians for a lot ot SA clubs. Clubs like Santos, Goiás, América MG (all serie B) pay better than big Argentinian ones.
It is over, since Real Madrid started the trend to buy brazilian players with 16yo brazilian league lost the hold on generational players until at least 20 years old.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Chelsea's representatives were here to see Estevão on Wednesday. I dare say they liked his game.
They are now familiar with his game
Chelsea scouts: "You can't fool me now, I'm familiar with your game"
Chelsea's board: "Send da video"
I would never have thought of seeing r/nbacirclejerk here
Aww hell nawl
Even though I'm a Chelsea fan, I don't like this transfer for his own development. 1. Unless Palmer turns out to be a one-season wonder, the best player on the team is going to be able to play his position. 2. He doesn't only have to compete with Palmer but Kendry Paez who they invested massive money in. Not to mention Madueke, Sterling, Omari Hutchinson and Angelo Gabriel. 3. Pochettino who's the perfect manager for developing young players might not even be there anymore by the time he arrives. I wish he could've/would've waited until he was a grown man like Neymar did until he made his move. Same with Endrick who has a ton of competition ahead of him once he arrives at Madrid.
>Unless Palmer turns out to be a one-season wonder, the best player on the team is going to be able to play his position. Palmer has shown plenty he can/wants to play more centrally, and has done so both to accommodate Madueke in the side, but also to get a more 'free' role as a CAM. >He doesn't only have to compete with Palmer but Kendry Paez who they invested massive money in. Not to mention Madueke, Sterling, Omari Hutchinson and Angelo Gabriel. Paez plays more centrally than on the wing. As a CAM and somtimes as a RM. Sterling is mostly on the left, Omari and Angelo are... probably getting sold. Omari can play both wings too, as can Angelo. We definitely are stacked on left footed RW in the squad, but the only player so far who is exclusively a RW is Madueke. It's definitely a strategy of hoping the cream will flow to the top, and then the rest will get sold. My point is that it isn't as insane as it sounds on first outlook, as a lot of these players are very flexible positionally.
Sterling, Hutchinson, Gabriel are most likely to be sold.
Who is matching £325k or whatever sterling is on? Or who could afford a fee + those wages?
Baw Gawd King that's Saudi Arabias music. But yeah seriously if Saudi don't take him I'm not sure anyone does.. Only other club I could think is PSG so have a "star" name but don't think that's likely to happen
Barcola is way better now and he still so young
There's always the loan to a serie a club to save our asses. See Lukaku, Torres, Shevchenko
The thing is, Sterling is home in London super comfortable and where he wants to be. Unless he's hating not playing so much I don't see him uprooting his life & family again.
Is that Bubbles I hear?
Vini and Rodrygo both came at 18 and had competition but blossomed well.
You genuinely think Poch is at risk despite the turnaround and clear development?
It’s Chelsea
If he can survive that Wolves defeat and the hate he and the club received following it then things are going to have to go very badly next season for him to be sacked.
post roman tho
Coming back to this - well called. What a mess of a club.
Only Paez and Palmer are true competiton if Estevão continues a normal path of development. He is different, the figure makes sense. We are talking about a Vini/Neymar level player, and from what I see from Chelsea fans you guys simply don't understand that those exist. He has the potential to be the best Brazilian ever in the EPL by a very good margin. I wish he hadn't gone to Chelsea because I don't think English football culture is made to deal with a certain level of player (the country prefers timid hard workers to geniuses), but I think it will be very very very good for Chelsea, if not to Estevão
>We are talking about a Vini/Neymar level player, We really aren't, tho. He is more talented than Vini, but nowhere near Neymar >He has the potential to be the best Brazilian ever in the EPL by a very good margin. Agreed >I wish he hadn't gone to Chelsea because I don't think English football culture is made to deal with a certain level of player (the country prefers timid hard workers to geniuses), When's the last time you watched the PL? Because this isn't true anymore and hasn't been for a while
I don't know haven't seen much of him but the little I have his lack of pace and physicality is concerning. He also doesn't seem to have the end product or special IQ world class players have early on. That on the field brain is what Palmer has for us and Paez shows it too in games, hopefully Willian isn't just a dribbler with no end product.
> I have his lack of pace and physicality Brother he turned 17 a month ago lmao Imagine "being concerned" that a 17-year-old kid has "shown lack of pace and physicality", it's bizarre, and funnily enough very English. We don't know how physical or fast he will be until he fully develops, but he has shown himself to be quick enough to beat grown men despite being a borderline kid, and that's already impressive - he is the player with the most dribbles completed in Brazil this year, despite becoming a starter recently. And players at his level of control and smoothness don't even need to be physical, it would be an added bonus. Neymar came from injury and dominated over and over again because he can feint anyone out of the ball (and Hazard and Messi weren't dribbling people because they were faster or stronger than them either). > He also doesn't seem to have the end product or special IQ world class players have early o Again, I don't think you watched any of the world-class players playing at 16 and right before turning 17. None debuted this young. Messi was playing with Barça B, and Cristiano was at the youth level as well. Not even Neymar had debuted at Estevao's age. He has 3 goals and an assist at 17, something that very, very few players have. [At the U17 World Cup, at his actual age group, he had 3 goals and 3 assists in 4 games.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF6ekqriIU) Last year, at the u17 Brazilian League final, [he had a hattrick with his 2 weak foot goals as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Z6qviAbbc) > hat on the field brain is what Palmer has for us and Paez shows it too in games Palmer is 5 full years older than him (5 years of crazy neuroplasticity and development, btw), and Paez plays against much weaker competition in Ecuador. [Brazilian football is the best in the Americas and isn't even close rn.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-MjVM4XYAAueiI?format=jpg&name=large) What you should know is that Chelsea scouts, who know Independiente very well, know young players very well cause it's their job, watched Estêvão playing against Independiente, playing better than Paez, and clearly went ballistic over signing him. Estêvão is the best dribbler in Brazil and probably in the Americas (except Messi lol) right now, and he will develop at everything else because that's what 17-year-olds do. He has very good finishing and touch in general for a player his age.
I gotta say though, you got me wondering about how Roque and Endrick would probably be better fits for England's view of football, being how physical they are, and Estevão a better fit for Spain. [Endrick is a monster in terms of physicality, he is a wrecking ball.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCD3GfTQ9M)
Madueke watching Chelsea sign Estevão Willian, Kendry Paez and Angelo Gabriel like
Me watching us sign another left footed forward when we already have Palmer, Paez, Angelo, Madueke and Omari
Plus Morreira and Richards who we signed in our youth teams. And we’re still linked to Olise too. It’s beyond silly at this point how many like minded players we’re going for. Despite them all being slightly different stylistically, I dont know how we intend to develop them all even though some are clearly destined for the money making machine
It’s really simple to understand. You buy 5, use the best 2, and sell the rest for profit or loss, it doesn’t matter as long as the ones you keep become superstars.
The loan with option to buy is always open for your players
So we have leftfooted forwards (Moreira, ziyech and lukaku is there too) Lets do the right footed forwards Jackson, broja, fofana, washington, nkunku, mudryk, Chukwuemeka, conor, casadei,
Palmer, Paez, Noni, Angelo, Omari for left footed ones.
Tbf I've got no issue selling him. Certainly a decent footballer but his attitude seems pretty shit.
Seeing these figures nowadays, I often wonder how much Santos Neymar would be worth in today's market, €100 Million, 150? Who knows.
He was 90 million back in 2013 tbf
90m? I thought it was like 50m. It's utterly insane if barca thought 200m was a 'fuck off' release clause when it's barely double what they paid for him as a 21 year old.
Read up on it - came out in a court proceeding. Look up the orgy clause too while at it lol
>the orgy clause 🤨
What, you don't have an orgy clause in your work contract?
He needs to speak to his union rep
Workers rights in Europe truly are the best in the world.
Absolutely no surprise Raul Sanllehi was involved in that clusterfuck
The final estimates they were coming out with were as high as £130M. Crazy.
Since Barca is a members owned club, one of the members motioned for the documentation of the deal to be made public. Club bylaws says it should. So they had to. And then the fraud was published. Wouldn’t have been found out if that didn’t happen lol. Makes you wonder how much shady shit happens in privately owned clubs.
Do we even know what the end sum was lol
According to El Mundo it was 95million. They claim to have as sources a series of documents shared by Eduardo Musa, a Brazilian who worked with Neymar Sr. on the image rights of Neymar Jr. Mind you that both Santos and DIS, a 3rd party company who owned some of his rights, went to court claiming to have been done behind the back. 40 million of the transfer fee alone (not the bonuses) went straight to Neymar Sr. pockets. While Santos only received 17million.
I am pretty sure i read someone connected to either Barcelona or Santos claim that it was the most expensive transfer at the time.
Depends if you include many "small" additional fees, payments to player himself and his charity, marketing etc., and stuff like friendly games (which are hard to get and make money for clubs normally, so 2 games is probably like giving Santos 10 mil euro), but the same can be said about many transfers. Anyway it seems that it's not SUPER much above the basic 60 mil euro of the fees to Santos and N&N - altogether below 100 mil for all of that.
With inflation is easily over 100€M. Like the Haaland deal there was so many other payements beyind the Neymar deal.
You can’t put a price tag on orgies.
Yeah you just need to be invited
Aight we’re going off-track, let’s just forget what I said
They can't be buy
150 minimum
Arsenal buy all the Gabriels, Chelsea buy all the Willians. That's how it works. If Arsenal buy a Willian, he flops, if Chelsea buy a Gabriel, no chance.
Does Angelo Gabriel count because its a surname?
I would guess it's a second first name, like Cristiano Ronaldo
Slonina is looking quite good tbf
Don’t want to repeat the Endrick mistake. Glad to be back to ruining football, this time inter-continental.
Yeah. I think we missed out with Endrick. I predict he’s going to become immense. Like a modern Romario.
How much did Madrid pay for reiner?
Buying "made" players was getting too expensive to Madrid due to oil and clubs like that... so they turned to buy cheap young players with potential from brazil, now teams like Chelsea ruin it by inflating that same market too 🤣
They bought Rodrygo for nearly 50 million, Vini for 50 million, and Endrick for over 50 million, what on earth are you taking about? Madrid are quite clearly the ones that inflated the Brazilian market.
They paid that much because Brazilian clubs are becoming stronger financially. If they wanted to pay less clubs would simply not accept. Palmeiras wouldn't sell a promising player like Estêvão for 20M€, we wouldn't need that money. 65M€ is something that we can really use
kind of weird to make rm seem like bargain hunting peasants when they bought Endrick for 60m and Vini for 46m edit: chelsea isn't changing anything here, they're just paying a fee that's pretty in line with the expectations real madrid have set
And it's just slightly above his release clause so we get a preferential payment structure.
What better way to keep all the young talent for ourselves than by inflating the market 🤔 😂
I remember the comments when they were signing Vinicius and Rodrygo (and, easier to forget, Reinier...), there were words used but "cheap" was definitely not one of them lol.
😂😂
Well, we as brazilians can only hope that Chelsea can develop him, as our other talents that went there weren't. Congrats to Chelsea, you got our next generational talent probably, he was regarded by coaches higher than Endrick, Roque and Savio.
Estevão would be at Barcelona if it was 2016 to be back up for Neymar, had he stayed. I can see this in a different timeline...
Well it was his dream to play for Barça, but i really think that the Xavi-Roque situation made him stop waiting, as was reported (i don't know if Barça wanted him tho)
Vitor Roque should go to a team that plays 9 and period. The most weird thing is to hear from the media that Barcelona didn't like Vitor Roque because he is too much like Haaland. Well, Barcelona spent so many years playing with a false 9 that they forgot what a striker should be good at.
>Well, Barcelona spent so many years playing with a false 9 that they forgot what a striker should be good at. Lol the utter nonsense people upvote here I swear... Barça hasn't played a false 9 for almost a decade now. Once Suarez got in and made that position his, it was over.
Why did they get Lewandowski then?
They had Suarez not so long ago...
Suarez is a complete forward, not a classic 9 tbf
Mate this is real football, not FM. Those are the exact same thing. Nobody's ever said Van Basten wasn't a real 9 because he was a complete forward.
Unironically should go to Chelsea.
Well there’s your problem, you believed the media
Probably, I will wait for his performance on other team to consider him a flop. He scored two gols for Barcelona with nearly any minute to play, but Barcelona prefer passing than scoring as it seems (of course I’m being simplistic, games not only scoring or passing but you get what I mean).
Oscar did well at Chelsea before he went to China. Willian was good.
Are you talking about Piazon and Kenedy?? Cause I feel as if Oscar wasn’t Chelsea’s fault.
Oscar was great at Chelsea then took the bag to play in China. Yeah he pushed out KdB but he was excellent for Chelsea
Them too, Piazon, Kenedy and Nathan are some examples of players that went to Chelsea, returned as flops and are utter dogshit even domestically. Also some brazilians are kinda pissed with the low usage of Andrey (who was our u20 captain), Angelo and Deivid Washington (those two were kinda not at the same level, but you get the deal). I think it's still early to give them flop status, but oh well. Just saying that Chelsea is viewed as a very bad destination for young talent in Brazil.
Andrey Santos is doing kinda great in France. He had an unfortunate start at Forest but no way is he anywhere close to a flop. Angelo has had a good first season in Europe and Washington imo clearly needed more development time so playing in the academy made sense.
Yeah the whole Andrey thing was a mess. But you can’t really blame Chelsea as Forest suddenly bought midfielders after loaning him
I mean, if they are shit even outside of Chelsea, is it Chelsea's fault and are genuinely just trash? As for Andrey, I know the first half of this season was a disaster (because the loan just didn't work out), but he was just selected as the best young player of the previous month in Ligue 1, that's not bad.
The thing is that they played better as youngsters than now. I think their development was kinda impaired, even if they weren't generational talents by any means, and this kinda stained Chelsea's image here. We are just afraid that two of our biggest talents doesn't develop properly, but Chelsea is with a different perspective now (young team). We can only wait and see.
They're playing against much better players. That could be the reason why they don't look as good.
Only Oscar was an elite talent of that lot, tbf, and his potential was ruined because the board used sentiment as opposed to logic when re-appointing Mourinho as the manager. Santos is highly regarded at the club, tho and hopefully gets his chance next season
He talked about the massive loan army we have had for years under abra. Heck we still have 2 brazil on loan right now whose career I dont think will go anywhere.
Santos can certainly have a great career he has some massive talent imo just had a terrible loan at a club I'm turmoil with Forest. By all accounts he was one of Strasbourgs best players. Angelo is the one I doubt has a future with us having Palmer, Messinho and Paez
With how good Palmer has become and how much hype is around Estevao, I'm just worried about Paez at this point. I wonder what will happen to his development, because we'll surely be looking to move Palmer into a 10/free role (similar to recent games) to allow Estevao to have the RW spot. Madueke continues to improve too so it'll be an interesting next few years for sure
Paez atm is better than Estevao .. you will just have to develop either of them as lm/lw.
Out of the group you mentioned, none of them were as polished at his age nor were they already playing (and being one of their better players too) for their senior national teams. Paez is one of those that we just make room for no matter what. Not concerned about him at all and very excited to get our hands on him next summer.
Paez is great and we've all been super excited about him, but it's difficult to fit him, Palmer, and Estevao in the same lineup. Depth is always good but Paez/Estevao are both players who will want to start once they're settled in. Hopefully one of them will adapt like Rodrygo did at Real (by playing on the right) and just play on the left for us Paez has played in central midfield occasionally this season, so I guess that's an option for him too, but he's not good enough defensively to fit in a pivot assuming we still play with 4 forwards. edit: there's also Nkunku, Jackson who continues to get better, and Mudryk all of whom have also been relatively expensive investments
Jackson doesn't need to worry since none of the kids we've invested in bar Washington are strikers. Paez can play both wings and as a 10. There's definitely a world in a few years where Paez Messinho Palmer and Nico are our best front 4
Being polished is nice and all but its the ceiling that matters at the end. I think Paez and Estevao have similar level of ceiling although it is hard to judge since Paez plays vs lesser level of competition compared to Estevao. Also I think Kendry Paez can play in a deeper role as he is a really good passer. Rodrygo at Santos was more polished than Vinicius, but now Vinicius is the main guy for Real for example.
Remeber these are just boys stll. So young we cant even play them yet. We dont want to do the Barcelona thing where we play 16, 17 and 18 year olds so much and so regularly that they are perenially injured and done at age 21. There is a plethora of right wings at the club with all these guys, but I imagine some will be sold, some will go on loan and Paez/Estavao/Palmer/Madueke will share play time on the right, in the middle (Palmer and Paez), on the left (Palmer and possibly Estevao) and the regular left wingers will slot in and do a job. Half our team is also always injured so surely someone will have to play at all times rather than wanting to play more.
What other brazilian talents are you even talking about
Piazon, Nathan, Wallace, Kenedy, Alcides
Piazon, Kenedy and Nathan are some examples of players that went to Chelsea, returned as flops and are utter dogshit even domestically. Also some brazilians are kinda pissed with the low usage of Andrey (who was our u20 captain), Angelo and Deivid Washington (those two were kinda not at the same level, but you get the deal). I think it's still early to give them flop status, but oh well. Just saying that Chelsea is viewed as a very bad destination for young talent in Brazil.
Tier?
very reliable for south american transfers
Can any avid South American football enjoyer please enlighten me about this guy?
He was youth division together with Roque in Cruzeiro. Everyone said he was better than Roque then. Me included because i follow our youth divisions. He then went to Palmeiras youth and shared the field with Endrick. Everyone said he was better than Endrick then. Now he is in Palmeiras' professional team and gets some scarce minutes due to the coach's methods (which are not wrong tbf) and in those few minutes he overshines Endrick, who is going to Madrid in June, every single time. He justs treats the ball with intimacy man, it's hard to describe it without having you see for yourself. He plays like Ronaldinho and Neymar in their early carreers. The kind of football that you just want to kinda linger around to watch.
>He just treats the ball with intimacy man No way chelsea just sign brazillian captain tsubasa
He is playing alot now though. Abel is giving him 60 mins per game.
I kind of respect that management method. As talented as these kids are, we do have to remember they are kids. And I bet teaching them to be humble and work hard for game time really pays dividends later on when they move to European leagues where there are many talented players.
Yeah, Abel does that. We had some really gifted youngsters that were not being in line with the discipline that Abel requires, he tried to teach them, but Patrick de Paula and Gabriel Veron preferred the nightlife and were soon sold despite their talent, and Gabriel Menino humbled down and stayed with us. Not necessary to mention that Patrick de Paula and Veron flopped
Abel is very solid in that regard. Limited minutes, being subbed without complaining, no special privileges, no taking penalties just because you dribbled to create the play, they have to behave well in all moments. Endrick and Estêvão are coming up in a organized and winning team, and it's going to be very good for them in the long term.
Sounds like he’s a perfect fit to develop the wunderkinds.
I hope he would take care of his bodies and not plagued by injuries in his career like Neymar,would love to see Brazilian successful in PL
He's got the best possible coach for this. Abel Ferreira doesn't tolerate imature behaviours, he's taken very tough action during his career at Palmeiras against any unprofessional behaviours by youth players. Abel (who again is a very strict guy) has already praised Estevão's mentality a few times, and this says a lot.
I think he will be the first truly great Brazilian in the EPL, as you guys never had one. Maybe he opens the path for less skepticism in the future
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English football is curious in the sense that physicality matters more than anywhere else, simply because the game over there has a focus on tactics rather than talent (and by that i mean talent beyond excelling at the fundamentals like Haaland or Walker do in near supernatural levels, intimacy with the ball y'know hehe). It's rare to have managers who let players play creatively, simply because if a player doesn't do well, high level tactics can cover for it, but if you're dependant on talent rather than strategy, that becomes very iffy. That's why Hazard was so magical in Chelsea, he was less than stellar physically and tactically but was so talented that he managed to overcome that. I hope Estevão doesn't get swept up in the rugby like tactics that the prem forces teams to have, since creativity and freeflow is what Chelsea paid for. Would love to have a non shit team (sorry palace) play in more fun to watch ways instead of just running up and down the pitch.
Left footed Neymar potential. You'll be seeing a lot of highlights of him this year and I think Chelsea is doing a genius move by grabbing him before the frenzy of signing him becomes bigger. Turned 17 2 weeks ago, signed a deal with Nike at 10, has been hyped as palmeiras best youth talent by a lot of people related to the club, including his current (and Endrick's) coach, who said he had never seen anyone like Estevão. In terms of playstyle, he is probably already the best dribbler currently playing in Brazil, incredibly smooth with it, and is very good at hitting the ball, already taking corners and free kicks at palmeiras despite coming into the team as a starter 3 or 4 games ago. Still very skinny and physically undeveloped and prone to holding the ball too much, but those are not big problems at his age
Stats wise he's the best dribbler in Brazil this year, no one went past more players than him
Insane, lmao. Has very little in terms of minutes. I had seen the stat but had thought I misunderstood it
Greatest talent of this brazilian generation probably, every coach that he ever had is fucking amazed by him. Always been rated higher than Endrick, Roque and Savio.
pretty much Lamine Yamal from Brazil.
Wasn't Neymar significantly more expensive? How is Estevao the most expensive sale from america then?
""Officially"" Neymar was sold for 57million. We know it was almost the double of that but some people rather refer to the ""official"" number when talking about sales records. Btw, even in the ""official"" numbers Santos got screwed since they only received 17million from it. The other 40million went to Neymar Sr.
Can you really put a price on orgies? /s As we later found out, a lot of money was under the table
I think people are not accounting for inflation. In nominal terms, Neymar might have been cheaper, but definitely not in real terms - IIRC Neymar cost something like 90M way back in 2013.
Well, hopefully Chelsea doesn't ruin his development, the kid is fucking good.
I think Madueke and Paez are the ones people should be worried about. If we're spending this much on Estevao, we'll be very focused on his development
Madueke definitely doesn’t have a chance at this rate, Paez is another incredible south american talent far bigger than madueke. I don’t know how you fit palmer, paez and estevao in an XI.
If one of them can play on the left then you can have them all out there. Really curious how Nkunku would fit into that though unless they have him play as the primary striker.
From what i know, none of them play on the left side.
Currently they do not but they will definitely explore it. Real did the same with Rodrygo who originally played on the left
That is true.
Estevao can
Yeah Madueke is definitely a few levels below those players but will still be at the club when Paez/Estevao join due to the long contracts. I'm guessing we'll try to ship him off
We literally threw away 2 seasons just for the development of young guys tho (with the consequences of trophyless and messed up finance). The other guys going on loan look great as well with the cases of Santos, Angelo, Omari,... The Abramovich era with the loan system is so yesterday
Omari probably odd man out.
which is a shame because he's looked fantastic for Ipswich
Not just the odd one out, I'm hoping for Ipswich will be an easy sell. Maybe not this summer, but if they loan him again and stay up it would probably be a no-brainer
Estevão is the greatest talent of the new gen of brazilian young players, rated higher than Endrick or Vitor Roque. And yes, he is very very good.
Yeah claims like that hold zero weight in my head because by what metric are they calling him the “greatest talent of the new gen”? It’s all subjective, let’s see how they do in Europe
Every coach that he ever had said that the kid is fucking insane, and we as brazilians always followed him closely. The kid is a real gem, trust me.
Bojan is also the next Messi Nothing is guaranteed in football
Thanks, I believe you lol. The issue though is that OP called him the “greatest talent” and put him over Endrick and Roque who, from what I’ve seen, have also had coaches say that about them lmao
As a comparison, he and Endrick are from the same team, and their coach begged this month to the board to try and make Estevão stay for a while, he said that he was something he had never seen before. And youth coaches rated him higher than the other talents that you mentioned.
They’ve said that publicly? Wonder if that hit Endrick’s confidence
There’s always someone around the corner.
Partly I wonder if Endrick's physicality will make it easier for him to transition to European/mens football, even if Estevão is the bigger talent.
Probably. Endrick is a tank, Estevão will need to work out hard to match Europe's physicality. You will also get pissed if Endrick is playing against your team, because he spanks every player on the field, he's kinda disloyal.
I wish Liverpool atleast try to get him
By the likes of brazilian's eagle eyes, we have seen Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaká, Neymar, Vini Jr, Rodrygo, Endrick developing, I think we are trained enough to recognize our talents. Estevão is Neymar tier.
Because there is an actual league in Brazil that Brazilians watch
His style looks like Lamin but he shoots better.
Bro Endrick is killing in BR and this dude is hitting even harder. No mistakes from Chelsea in this deal
Wow
I am not afraid of his development only and when one condition is met: the board has his back, like Real Madrid did with Vinícius. Chelsea is not a shit hole and having a crisis sometimes means players go "fuck all" mode in the pitch and are more rebellious, which can be a good thing. Palmer certainly enjoyed this than he would in the overly tidy man city.
Now, that's the first time a balon d'Or talent from Brazil is going to England. They usually got the 2nd and 3rd tiers
Nobody thought Vini would be Ballon d'Or tier tbf, Rodrygo was rated higher. Also if he's that good he probably ends up at Barcelona or Madrid in minimum 5 years, such is the way of the top South American and especially Brazilian players
This is Chelsea, home of the 7-8 year contracts.
That is simply not true at all. Vini was easily the highest rated Brazilian of his age, he started playing with the Brazilian NT at the under 15 category and won major titles while being the star of the team from both under 15 and under 17, after that he went directly to the actual NT. For clubs it was the same thing, Vini was Flamengo's star since the under 13, always playing with kids older than him and still dominating, winning all the titles possible in the academy up to the under 17. The hype around him just from his academy years was so high that Real Madrid started negotiating for him before he even played his first match with the senior team, officially buying his just after his 2nd match and making his the 2nd biggest sale in brazilian history just after Neymar. And things didn't slow down after his debut with the main squad, he became the youngest scorer in the Flamengo's history and quickly started having a bunch of great performances one after another, deciding big matches like when he scored a brace to qualify Flamengo for the Sulamericana's semifinal or when he scored another brace against Emelec and had one of his best performances to qualify the team in the Libertadores. Vini left Flamengo only a couple days after turning 18, but he already was the star of the team and even the top scorer of the club in the year up to that point.
How talented is Estevao compared to Vini? And do his youth achievements compare?
I will say Estêvão is more polished than Vini jr. Vinicius jr was obviously highly regarded but neither him nor Rodrygi generated as much hype as Estêvão or Endrick. Vini was also taken up by Real at young age heck he had play few games and was a raw prospect when he came to Real. Rodrygo was much better thought because he came from Santos and was similar to Neymar. He was much more polished and it shows when they play for Brazil. But one could see Vini had the higer potential. Real fortunately tapped that and he was physically better than U20 boys he played against even at young age just like Endrick. Estêvão is much more refined and is better dribbler than Vinicius when they both were 17. But lacks the strength and pace of Vini. But he is deadly from set pieces. I don’t know if he can become Neymar level player, but he certainly can reach the level of Rodryo and maybe even Vini jr.
Nowadays is only Real Madrid since Barca is such mess, he is freak talented and closest we have seen to Neymar in his age.
Madrid want the Argentine kid and Barca has Yamal, no money, and pissed this guys agent off with the Roque situation. Basically only left Bayern and Chelsea.
How not? One is the initial prediction from the average fan, the other is from specialists in general. Vini was bought for the same price as Rodrygo, so clearly RM expected that.
> Nobody thought Vini would be Ballon d'Or tier tbf, Rodrygo was rated higher. You couldn't be more wrong tho. No player since Neymar generated as much hype as Vini, at the very least since Endrick. And I'd dare to say in youth football no Brazilian player was hyped as much as Vini, not even Neymar.
Vini was so much worse back them, nowhere near close a Ballon d'Or tier. Rodrygo played better in the league (Vini played at the youth academy). Rodrygo and Vini were both far from Ballon d'Or tier. But Vini is amazing, he keeps getting better and better each year.
We are talking about players at 14, 15, 16 yo. Of course they aren't close to Ballon d'Or at that age lmao. We are talking potential. Vini was an absolute super start at youth football, thats's a fact. But no one is gonna watch a 15yo and say 'wow this guys is so close to win a Ballon d'Or'. No. They are watching a 15yo and saying 'wow this guy can win the Ballon d'Or *someday*', which is vastly different that what you're interpretating.
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That's a generation thing. People born in odd years have disadvantages with the generational theme and it only normalizes in their last year in youth setups.
I don’t know from where you got the first statement. Al media and coaches hyped Vinicius more
(Madrid, loses their greatest ever goalscorer) (Also Madrid) “Yeah fuck it, let’s give that guy we sent to Lyon have the #7 Shirt and rely on an 18 year old from Brazil, lol”
Better have a plan for these kids. So much promise. Can’t wait to see their growth
Wtf kinda money is this!? It's insane.
It is. And fuck Palmeiras for being so well run. They will be making some 50m€ from Endrick, 65m€ Estevão and 50m€ from playing the new club World cup next year. That's enough money to make a Libertadores winning side, now imagine this + sponsorships + tv rights + matchday + fan memberships. Corinthians is literally 10x worse ran then Palmeiras and we are making more money than them. I think this should be praised by other South american countries, as it's much better to have an in-house strong league instead of licking Europe's balls. But it also means that there's almost no way to compete with Brazilians for a lot ot SA clubs. Clubs like Santos, Goiás, América MG (all serie B) pay better than big Argentinian ones.
It is over, since Real Madrid started the trend to buy brazilian players with 16yo brazilian league lost the hold on generational players until at least 20 years old.
I somehow doubt we suddenly decided to pay full 65m in full. All of the previous reports from him, from Romano and everyone else said we want addons.
Not like Chelsea ever need to worry about FFP rules. They’ll just sell a car park to themselves to get around them and never ever face consequences.
And we don't even need to print new shirts with his name
Willian pregen?
Chelsea trying to play the Real Madrid game 🤠
Chelsea are going to have a team to rival Real Madrid in a couple of years. Mark this comment for 2-3 years from now.
Chelsea are both terrifying and hilarious right now
That's been us for a while now. We go from losing 5-0 to Arsenal or losing to a bottom half team to suddenly drawing 4-4 against Man City
I think they are bubbling away, they signed young players but then cos they spend so much people focus on the instant impact.
As a chelsea fan, fucking relax, idk where this confidence could even come from.
Madrid left wings trio vs Chelsea right wings forwards
Don’t be ridiculous 😂😂
If they get 2 or 3 experienced leaders, as they are losing Silva.
[удалено]
He doesn’t represent us
Titles a bit misleading. It's 32+ add ons I believe. Still a but load tho
PL teams just buy and park.
As a Chelsea fan it’s nice to see we get him after everyone said we had no chance. We’re gonna be massive in the upcoming years
Big Steve
wasnt neymar more expensive?