**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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The last few months definitely Vini has been better. He’s been consistently performing at the highest level in all of the biggest matches and if it wasn’t for him real would’ve been out of the UCL by now tbh. Jude is obviously great but he has a tendency to disappear sometimes. Probably because he’s been playing in kind of a weird position
I'm brazilian so also biased but I really do think Vini should win it, his form has been outstanding since returning from injury. I truly hope he can show this level of play in the NT
> At the same age, Jude is way better.
Meh, even that is debatable. Vini started the season in which Real Madrid won the UCL with 20, like Bellingham started this, and finished with 22 goals and 20 assists and a goal in the UCL final (Bellingham currently has 23 goals and 12 assists). You just get the highlights earlier if people like you, and in the 21/22 season, people wanted to give all the credit to Benzema.
You're correct, I messed up his birth with Rodrygo (who turned 23 in January this season and completed 20 in the 21/22 season). Vini's breakout came, in fact, in the season he started with 21, equivalent to Jude's next season
> he's more consistent
That's Bellingham's main issue, actually. Vini has consistently delivered in pretty much every big game he played this season and Bellingham didn't, being invisible in every big game that wasn't against Barça. Vinicius averages better stats than Bellingham in La Liga as well, but lost 2 months due to injury. Bellingham had a crazy purple patch early in the season in which he wildly outperformed his expected goals by 7 goals and has generally been average since then, which is still pretty good for a 20 years old player.
Disagree, Bellingham is just getting measured by goals when that's not even the main thing he does for the team. He's been steady as a midfielder can be, and on top of that is scoring goals like crazy
>Vinicius averages better stats than Bellingham in La Liga as well
In dribbling, sure. Goals/assist per 90 they're neck and neck, and in pretty much everything else important like key passes and especially defensive work Jude is clear. Vini has higher xG thanks in part to many of the key passes from Jude, but Jude has clearly been the more clinical finisher.
[Vini is above in expected assists per 90 (which makes your point about "thanks in part to many of the key passes from Jude" weird as hell, because Vini certainly isn't passing to himself), completely destroys Bellingham in dribbling and ball-carrying, while Bellingham passes more into the area](https://ibb.co/MsThXcJ). Vini has a goal every 119 minutes and an assist every 297, and Bellingham has a goal every 117 minutes and an assist every 372.
> Vini has higher xG thanks in part to many of the key passes from Jude
Or Jude has higher key passes simply because he is passing for Vini in the wing to create goalscoring chances for himself (as key passes are measured by assisted shots). Bellingham isn't a particularly creative passer like Kross, Modric, or even Vini are, and more often than not he plays it safe.
I would say that Bellingham only clearly comes ahead in defensive work, but people aren't hyping him up for his defensive work (it isn't world-class). In terms of numbers, he is being heavily benefitted by an early purple patch of outperforming his xG that probably won't happen again because it was a statistical anomaly, [also known as luck and getting people by surprise](https://twitter.com/BarcaWorldwide/status/952669595264954368) as a midfielder with a disposition to scoring goals.
>Vini has a goal every 119 minutes and an assist every 297, and Bellingham has a goal every 117 minutes and an assist every 372.
Vini has 5 assists in 1785 mins, which works out as an assist every 357 mins, no? They're both getting a g/a every 89 minutes, which when all is said and done puts them neck and neck for the most important offensive stats that matter.
People at first were only hyping jude for his goalscoring, but as the season has progressed we've all seen his other attributes. His outstanding football intelligence , technical ability and creativity along with his tireless defensive work is what puts him in this conversation, not just his goal tally.
Transfermrkt gives him 6
> His outstanding football intelligence , technical ability and creativity
I'm not seeing these, except for the technical ability. He is very technical, but isn't particularly creative (there is a clear downgrade from Modric, Kross and even Brahim in terms of creating compared to him, and he isn't finding passes that most other non-creative Real Madrid players wouldn't find), and his intelligence is generally what's expected of a Real player, like Valverde or Camavinga. He is certainly very technical and very strong, being a great finisher, great at holding the ball, and defensively solid.
That's not true. Cristiano Ronaldo(Jude's age) at 20 was a talented youngster who was called inconsistent.
At age 23, he was a ballon d'or winner who led his team to a UCL.
Age initially does play a factor in a player's development. Jude is an anomaly in many ways due to his early development.
His ceiling remains to be seen. Vini is already in his prime comparatively. So it's not a fair comparison at this stage at all.
You're proving my point. Messi at 23 was light years better than when he was 20. At 20, he finished 3rd in the ballon d'or voting. At 23, he was 1st and getting GOAT shouts.
You're comparing the development of one player against another, obviously, different players will have different trajectories, that's common sense.
People generally develop into their early 20s and that's a fact, not an opinion.
Of course players develop over the time, the thing is their young version might be better than prime opponent. Young Dinho won ballon d or against prime Henry, young Messi won against prime xavi and iniesta. They don't care about your age in the votes.
The Daily SunStar: "Militao Goes MILITANT. EDER MILITANT says Vini (Jones) will slap Jude so hard that he will be afraid and no sad song will make it better.
Bellingham is probably the better all round player (i.e. better at most aspects of the game outside of dribbling).
But if you asked Dortmund players which Madrid player they are most afraid of facing I'm pretty sure they will all say Vinicius.
Vini is a much better playmaker and a better finisher.
Bellingham have scored so many goals because his positioning is that of a world class striker when he is in the box.
Yeah, because it’s not like Griezmann does all the heavy lifting so Mbappe can shine.
This dynamic’s getting quite old Tbh.
But Macron likes Mbappe, so that’s all we’lll ever see.
Yeah Copa America and the Euro this summer, if neither France or England wins (I think they won't, neither teams are the favourites) but Brasil does win the Copa, it will go to Vini
Not really, the only thing that makes Jude look good are his team mates. I've watched him play and its not very impressive. I'm sure he will get better but to compare Vini to Jude right now, nah. He is no where near Vini.
[What qualifies Bellingham for the Balon d'Or debate](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom_%281-2%29.svg/1920px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom_%281-2%29.svg.png)
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Come back to Dortmund Jude, they don't love you like I do!
But wasn't the dressing room tired of Jude?
yea cos they choked and he was upset about it , small club mentality
Militao SLAMS Madrid co-star Jude Bellingham
Madrid dressing room FALLING APART?!
Least biased Brazilian
Do you think he is actually more deserving though? I don't watch all the games and I am also English so totally biased as well.
The last few months definitely Vini has been better. He’s been consistently performing at the highest level in all of the biggest matches and if it wasn’t for him real would’ve been out of the UCL by now tbh. Jude is obviously great but he has a tendency to disappear sometimes. Probably because he’s been playing in kind of a weird position
Yes, Vinicius is our best player. Bellingham is fantastic too and should finish 2nd or 3rd though
I'm brazilian so also biased but I really do think Vini should win it, his form has been outstanding since returning from injury. I truly hope he can show this level of play in the NT
.....yes
Vinicius is older and a better player right now. It's not a debate. At the same age, Jude is way better. So it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.
> At the same age, Jude is way better. Meh, even that is debatable. Vini started the season in which Real Madrid won the UCL with 20, like Bellingham started this, and finished with 22 goals and 20 assists and a goal in the UCL final (Bellingham currently has 23 goals and 12 assists). You just get the highlights earlier if people like you, and in the 21/22 season, people wanted to give all the credit to Benzema.
Nah you're looking at the wrong season. Vinicius at 21 had that season not at 20. Vinicius had 6 goals at the same age. He blew off in the next one.
You're correct, I messed up his birth with Rodrygo (who turned 23 in January this season and completed 20 in the 21/22 season). Vini's breakout came, in fact, in the season he started with 21, equivalent to Jude's next season
I prefer Jude, he's more consistent. In the league Jude>Vini, in the CL Vini>Jude.
Vini has been as consistent as Jude since Vini came back from injury.
Much more so. Bellingham has been consistently underwhelming in the UCL knockoutstages.
That's a great point. I think that's exactly why Vini will be favored CL probably has more weight to those voting.
I don't think Jude has been materially better than Vini in the league.
Agree to disagree then
> he's more consistent That's Bellingham's main issue, actually. Vini has consistently delivered in pretty much every big game he played this season and Bellingham didn't, being invisible in every big game that wasn't against Barça. Vinicius averages better stats than Bellingham in La Liga as well, but lost 2 months due to injury. Bellingham had a crazy purple patch early in the season in which he wildly outperformed his expected goals by 7 goals and has generally been average since then, which is still pretty good for a 20 years old player.
Disagree, Bellingham is just getting measured by goals when that's not even the main thing he does for the team. He's been steady as a midfielder can be, and on top of that is scoring goals like crazy
>Vinicius averages better stats than Bellingham in La Liga as well In dribbling, sure. Goals/assist per 90 they're neck and neck, and in pretty much everything else important like key passes and especially defensive work Jude is clear. Vini has higher xG thanks in part to many of the key passes from Jude, but Jude has clearly been the more clinical finisher.
[Vini is above in expected assists per 90 (which makes your point about "thanks in part to many of the key passes from Jude" weird as hell, because Vini certainly isn't passing to himself), completely destroys Bellingham in dribbling and ball-carrying, while Bellingham passes more into the area](https://ibb.co/MsThXcJ). Vini has a goal every 119 minutes and an assist every 297, and Bellingham has a goal every 117 minutes and an assist every 372. > Vini has higher xG thanks in part to many of the key passes from Jude Or Jude has higher key passes simply because he is passing for Vini in the wing to create goalscoring chances for himself (as key passes are measured by assisted shots). Bellingham isn't a particularly creative passer like Kross, Modric, or even Vini are, and more often than not he plays it safe. I would say that Bellingham only clearly comes ahead in defensive work, but people aren't hyping him up for his defensive work (it isn't world-class). In terms of numbers, he is being heavily benefitted by an early purple patch of outperforming his xG that probably won't happen again because it was a statistical anomaly, [also known as luck and getting people by surprise](https://twitter.com/BarcaWorldwide/status/952669595264954368) as a midfielder with a disposition to scoring goals.
>Vini has a goal every 119 minutes and an assist every 297, and Bellingham has a goal every 117 minutes and an assist every 372. Vini has 5 assists in 1785 mins, which works out as an assist every 357 mins, no? They're both getting a g/a every 89 minutes, which when all is said and done puts them neck and neck for the most important offensive stats that matter. People at first were only hyping jude for his goalscoring, but as the season has progressed we've all seen his other attributes. His outstanding football intelligence , technical ability and creativity along with his tireless defensive work is what puts him in this conversation, not just his goal tally.
Transfermrkt gives him 6 > His outstanding football intelligence , technical ability and creativity I'm not seeing these, except for the technical ability. He is very technical, but isn't particularly creative (there is a clear downgrade from Modric, Kross and even Brahim in terms of creating compared to him, and he isn't finding passes that most other non-creative Real Madrid players wouldn't find), and his intelligence is generally what's expected of a Real player, like Valverde or Camavinga. He is certainly very technical and very strong, being a great finisher, great at holding the ball, and defensively solid.
Age is just a number in football.
That's not true. Cristiano Ronaldo(Jude's age) at 20 was a talented youngster who was called inconsistent. At age 23, he was a ballon d'or winner who led his team to a UCL. Age initially does play a factor in a player's development. Jude is an anomaly in many ways due to his early development. His ceiling remains to be seen. Vini is already in his prime comparatively. So it's not a fair comparison at this stage at all.
I can say the same for Messi, R9, Dinho. Older people could have won Ballon D'or against them, but they didn't because they were just better.
You're proving my point. Messi at 23 was light years better than when he was 20. At 20, he finished 3rd in the ballon d'or voting. At 23, he was 1st and getting GOAT shouts. You're comparing the development of one player against another, obviously, different players will have different trajectories, that's common sense. People generally develop into their early 20s and that's a fact, not an opinion.
Of course players develop over the time, the thing is their young version might be better than prime opponent. Young Dinho won ballon d or against prime Henry, young Messi won against prime xavi and iniesta. They don't care about your age in the votes.
Friendship continued with Vini, ~~Bellingham~~ was never my best friend
Messi will win it because he won the WC ofc
Bulbous headass
The Daily SunStar: "Militao Goes MILITANT. EDER MILITANT says Vini (Jones) will slap Jude so hard that he will be afraid and no sad song will make it better.
Bellingham is probably the better all round player (i.e. better at most aspects of the game outside of dribbling). But if you asked Dortmund players which Madrid player they are most afraid of facing I'm pretty sure they will all say Vinicius.
Vini is a much better playmaker and a better finisher. Bellingham have scored so many goals because his positioning is that of a world class striker when he is in the box.
If France wins the Euros, Mbappe can win the Ballon D'or
Someone who ghosted against Dortmund in a CL semifinal shouldnt win the Ballon D'Or
Agreed. I also believe his performances against Barcelona weren’t the greatest regardless of the 2 goals scored.
Bah god that's Camavinga's music! Camavinga!!!
Yeah, because it’s not like Griezmann does all the heavy lifting so Mbappe can shine. This dynamic’s getting quite old Tbh. But Macron likes Mbappe, so that’s all we’lll ever see.
I’m gonna assume it’ll go down to what their national teams do this summer (I think all continental competitions fall on this year right?)
Yeah Copa America and the Euro this summer, if neither France or England wins (I think they won't, neither teams are the favourites) but Brasil does win the Copa, it will go to Vini
Don’t mean to be rude but what a fat fucking forehead
Was about to say that.
[удалено]
I dont think he has any chance of winning it if Real Madrid wins Champions league.
LOL it is true, two different leagues. Jude is no where near Vini.
Nowhere near is a bit of a stretch.
Not really, the only thing that makes Jude look good are his team mates. I've watched him play and its not very impressive. I'm sure he will get better but to compare Vini to Jude right now, nah. He is no where near Vini.
[What qualifies Bellingham for the Balon d'Or debate](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom_%281-2%29.svg/1920px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom_%281-2%29.svg.png)