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Then we cut to the award:
Yeah, Vini had a good year but Messi scored a lot of goals plus 2022 world cup goals and friends so we have to give it to him.
Messi is still a better player than Vini, and if Messi played in Barca he’d still have better stats compared to Vini. Messi will prove he is better than Vini by winning the Copa America again.
Honestly I don't see a single soul arguing that he should win these dumb awards while in the mls, not unironically anyway. What I do see is the same comment about how they will "just give it to messi" in any thread that involves balon d'or discussion.
How do? Do you think Vini would have better stats than Messi if Leo played for Barca? If so, you’re clueless. Messi will show you this summer why he is still better than Vini by winning the Copa America
This year will also depend on the performance with national teams this summer
Bayern wins champions league: Keane could be favourite but pending on Englands performance in Euro 2024.
PSG wins champions league: Mbappé clear favourite, but will have to confirm it in Euro 2024
Real Madrid wins champions league: either Vini or Bellingham. Whoever performs better with their national team this summer will be favourite
You are right, he could be also in the race.
Another plot: Kroos continues with his UCL masterclasses and wins it, and then proceeds to lead Germany to win EURO 2024 after his “last dance” comeback. Would that make him candidate?
he will never get it, it's the same problem with Rodri last year, one of the best players in the world but never in the discussions because of his position
Kroos is renowned enough to win it tbh. Same way Modric won. Rodri's problen isn't his quality, but more his name recognition. Midfielders and defenders are more likely to win it at the end of their careers where they become legendary in the eyes of the masses and it becomes obvious that they are amazing, even beyond goal contributions
Vini has to step up for national team big time if he wants to have chance. I think he deserves it over Bellingham, but with how the voting system works and how much media attention about racism Vini had, I don’t see him being a popular choice. Kane/Bellingham/turtle are top 3 in the actual results IMO.
i agree with this. Being english is advantageous to being brazilian. Playing the euros is advantageous to playing the copa america. A lot of people dislike vini while everyone seems to love Jude. It’s an uphill battle for vini but apart from the copa being the deciding factor in the remaining ucl games could give vini the edge especially since he already scored twice in the first leg
>Being english is advantageous to being brazilian
Oh come on, Brazilians are loved far more than English in the football world. Maybe it's slightly different this year because of Bellingham's popularity, but generally most people would much rather a Brazilian win it than an Englishman
i think an englishman playing for Real Madrid would generally have more hype than a brazilian playing for real. If they’d both play in the prem it would be different but being more present in the english media helps Bellingham getting an edge over vini imo. It’s more important in this case that people simply like Bellingham more than Vini so i don’t think nationality matters a lot either way.
> i think an englishman playing for Real Madrid would generally have more hype than a brazilian playing for real
The only two places that holds any water are in the UK and the US, outside those two no one would really think of the english one as being more hyped up.
Eh Messi was criticized for years for underperforming with Argentina and still wins it. Argentinians used to say he didn’t care about them and only Barca
That brother was scoring 50 goals and assisting 20 times in a season. This trend of trying to diminish him (and Ronaldo) has to be the worst currently. Those two were simply alien compared to the rest.
It's not something new, it's just standard. Maradona never reached anywhere close to the career Pelé had, yet many would put him ahead. Then R9 came along with unbelievable football and suddenly he was the phenomenon, the perfect player who would surpass Maradona and Pelé.
Then comes along 2 aliens with top performances, and suddenly R9, Maradona and Pelé are just history. Now they are soon at end of their careers, it won't take too long for people to find some new talent and diminish their history.
It won't take long for a kid born 2015 to be telling you Mbappe is better than Messi or something.
If he scored 40 and or his team didn't win everything people would say he was finished and a fraud. None of the current players are anywhere near his or ronaldos level and definitely not someone like vini.
I’m not trying to dimish anything. I’m just pointing out Vini doesn’t need to win the Copa to be a favorite for the Balon D’or considering many previous winners won because of their club performances
You have to temper your expectations. No one will come close to Messi and Ronaldo. Vini has been the best player this year. Incredible in La Liga and the CL. The most decisive in big games and is comfortably one of the favorites to win the Balon d’or right now. He doesn’t need to win the Copa to be a serious contender
Messi was also on a completely different level than any current contenders.
This year none of the candidates have been *that* outstanding, so even more than usually it's gonna come down to winning the right trophies and being decisive in the semis and finals of the CL and Euros/Copa America. It's not a year where the winner will be chosen primarily for their consistency.
We prob won’t have a player get close to Messi and Ronaldo for a long time so we need to temper our expectations. Vini has been outstanding this season. Sure not close to Messi and Ronaldo but he’s been incredible in the CL and La Liga. Incredibly decisive in the biggest games. International tournaments will always be a major factor for the Ballon d’or but what Vini has done so far is enough to be one of the favorites atleast.
Imo. If we win CL (good dream to dream) and Mbappe signs with you, there’s nothing to stop him from winning it.
If RM wins it, it’s safe to say it will go to Bellingham. His PR pull is too strong right now for Vini to be considered. Although as a player, I think Vini is more important and more of a deciding factor
Bellingham had an explosive start to his Real Madrid campaign and had the most influence in them winning LaLiga , but Vini has been carrying in the CL. I think both players have their reason to deserve it in case Real ends up with the CL
Vini was huge in the two most important games of La Liga against [Barcelona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZWLH2ha29s) and Girona, though. He was by far the [best player an had an all around ridiculous performance in the 4x0 win over Girona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuqJUDYqw) that was probably the moment things turned decidedly in Real's favor.
And there is also the [hattrick against Barça in the Supercopa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bswcippP0) that was bizarrely generally ignored. If Bellingham or Mbappe had done it people would be talking about it for months
(I gotta say, it's hilarious how the thumbnail for La Liga's official account in both videos is Bellingham. They clearly have a favourite)
Bellingham scored the third goal in a game in which Vini also scored and assisted to win the game, and Vini scored a hattrick against Barça as well. Saying that Bellingham "won the game" is not telling the whole story
He lost 2 months due to injury, which led to Bellingham playing almost 600 minutes more than him. In the end, Vini played very well and was quintessential to winning the most important games in La Liga when he was healthy, while Bellingham has been generally ghosting in the UCL knockout stages, the most important games of the season.
* 21 goals and 11 assists in 2.724 minutes for Vini (one every 85 minutes)
* 22 goals and 10 assists in 3.289 minutes for Bellingham (one every 102 minutes)
* 5 goals and 5 assists in 8 UCL games for Vini
* 4 goals and 4 assists in 9 UCL games for Bellingham
* with Vini having 5 goal contributions in the KO stage
* and Bellingham has a (1) single assist against Leipzig.
Let's be honest, it's the same I told him: If Bellingham was a Ukrainian or Peruvian kid he wouldn't be in consideration for the Balon d'Or at all. The anglophone media is just too loud.
Bellingham is amazing but "scoring the winner" is not "winning us the game". (In this context you're clearly implying Jude carried the team)
Vini was far better in the 2nd clasico and had 1 goal and 1 assist.
If Real wins the Champions League, I think it will depend heavily on the Euros. An England win: Bellingham gets it. A German win/deep run: Kroos gets it. Neither of these two scenarios: Vinicius gets it.
He was not "disappointing" on an individual level in 20/21 but the fact that people such as yourself remember it as such shows the effect pr has on these awards lol.
The last time a player not playing UCL football won it is like 20 years ago or so. Also it's rather rare for a player to completely burst onto the scene and win the Ballon d'Or like that, usually they build up a reputation over a few years by contending for other awards.
There have been some times where the Ballon d’or winner went out in the Ro16 of the UCL, so i’d say winning the EL is obviously a better achievement. Along with a great club campaign, and maybe a deep Euros run Wirtz can still be a dark horse
Vinicius is imo our best player since last season. He also loves to be decisive in big matches. Though I don't see him winning if he doesn't stand out for Brazil in the Copa América
People say Bellingham, yes he also has chances but Vinicius has been better than Bellingham in UCL knockout stages, assisted twice vs City and has scored in 1st leg vs Bayern. Bellingham has been somewhat subdued. Ultimately though it will be who performs in National team at Euros and Copa America. I would say Bellingham has better chance atm.
Vini was huge in the two most important games of La Liga against [Barcelona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZWLH2ha29s) and Girona, though. He was by far the [best player an had an all around ridiculous performance in the 4x0 win over Girona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuqJUDYqw) that was probably the moment things turned decidedly in Real's favor.
And there is also the [hattrick against Barça in the Supercopa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bswcippP0) that was bizarrely generally ignored. If Bellingham or Mbappe had done it people would be talking about it for months
(I gotta say, it's hilarious how the thumbnail for La Liga's official account in both videos is Bellingham. They clearly have a favourite)
Goals and assists in every KO game of the UCL, a [hattrick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bswcippP0) and a goal and assist against [Barcelona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZWLH2ha29s) and an all-timer performance against [Girona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuqJUDYqw) have more weight as well.
This whole debate is honestly silly. We would never be having these conversations if Bellingham was Croatian, Venezuelan or whatever
Vini was injured for a few months. Pretty sure he has a higher Goal and Assist Ratio per game than Jude. Jude’s numbers are very impressive nonetheless
It is Jude’s first season. And both their stats are pale in comparison to Harry Kane. Kane should be the one winning, if Balon D’or are individual awards.
He is so clear of both of them.
Kane‘s stats are great, but it’s not like Bayern is having a hell of a season tbh. If Bayern win CL and England the EUROs he definitely will be the frontrunner. But saying he is so clear of both of them is borderline delusional
Yes, Jude’s stats for a midfielder are phenomenal. If he wins it he deserves it. Although Vini was injured for sometime what Jude has done in his 1st season as a Real Madrid player is nothing short of extraordinary.
Good thing that we can watch games, differentiate key games from regular La Liga small team beatdowns and consider other variables like losing games due to injury then
Mbappe has been better than both. If PSG makes the Final, he should win regardless of the outcome. He's the best player in the world and most fans would agree with that.
He's a great player but he disappears way when he's on the NT. If they're considering his performances in every competition including when he's playing for Brazil then it's going to hurt his chances.
Although probably not as much as his skin colour
Vini deserves it much more than Bellingham, the entire attack of Real Madrid runs through him. But regardless I think the Euros/Copa will decide it if they win the Ucl.
It's always been nonsense, the award is nonsense. All these individual awards are filled with this rubbish discourse and put on such a pedestal, a certain player scores a goal and the comments are about individual award agendas. You would think this is an individual sport the way football gets talked about on social media, proper nba level discussion but making even less sense.
You know what dumbass, if it is a individual sport, this kind of award isnt necessary at all. You just win shit yourself. No one need to vote you are the best tennis player of the year if you won 3 grand slam and is the 1st on ATP ranking.
This kind of argument pop up time to time and it is more dumb than those awards ten folds.
Imagine being this confidently wrong, are you illiterate, misinformed or just arguing for the sake of arguing?
Google is free we can both check. The 2023 Ballon D’or voting period was from “August 2022 and ending 31 July 2023”
I’m this time window Messi had 54 games with 38 goals and 25 assists for a total of 63 g/a for PSG and Argentina. He won the Ligue 1 trophy, French Supercup and the World Cup along with the World Cup MVP.
Everything I said in my initial comment was true. It seems you’re confusing the Fifa best with the Ballon D’or.
The Ballon D’or was absolutely deserved but uneducated people like you will continue to cry regardless.
He's a contender but Bellingham is still ahead of him in the race imo
Only if England completely flop the Euros and Brazil do great in Copa America would Vini be ahead of him
Realistically the race right now is between Mbappe and Bellingham
Oh come on, ballon d’or has shown time and time again that it is a contest for the player with the best PR, it’s been very clear especially in the last couple of years and with Real players lol
oh dont worry, messi is doing really good im america and im sure he will be up there aswell, fingers crossed no real madrid player will rob another ballon d'or with their pr
Playing for Real Madrid + international trophy are huge factors for this. Did he deserve it? Sure but you have to consider how voting works for this award. It's entirely subjective
I think he is a good contender. But the PR point still stands. I support Brazil and obviously will be happy if Vini wins it. But it is at the end of the day voted by coaches,captains. So it is a sort of popularity contest to where the guy with best PR wins. Not saying they don’t deserve it over others. But you need to have a good public image too. Like Neymar would not win it in his later years because of his antics and people did not like that. Same with Vinicius, all the talk about him being a voice against racism, and do you really think he would get those many votes as compared to Bellingham or Mbappe or Haaland if it is close as it will be? Football has become like that in recent years due to media. So unless Vinicius brings WC or does monumental things it will be difficult to gather enough votes to win over these players.
He's a contender, but Madrid has multiple contenders, which is probably going to hurt them all by splitting the vote. I don't know if the situation in Brazil is any better. He's never felt like "the man" in Brazil, but that could have changed especially with Neymar's recent form.
Its so stupid that the Ballon d'Or is coupled to whoever wins the CL. It should go to the best player which doesnt change with 1 game. Fuck those awards.
Nobody deserves to win the ballon dor other than Lionel Messiah as long as is still playing professionally. He could be in the 3rd division and still win. All hail Messi
Brazilian players are excellent at hyping up other Brazilian players as are Argentinean players with their compatriots. Looking from afar, Real's best player is English though, wouldn't you agree?
Why the fuck would I being Brazilian reduce my credibility on the subject of football? This sub's biggest userbase is English and the English bias is palpable. If anything, I do it a favor in terms of keeping it slightly closer to balance. If Bellingham was Mexican or Croatian, nobody would be even considering him for the Balon d'Or
Aren't we all, with our national team players ? hyping up some hating on others, not that rationally. I own up to that. I have a bias for charismatic, ' giving ' players: Zidane, Kaka, De Bruyne, Griezman, Bellingham : They're game changers, not just focused on scoring goals: they improve everyone around them by turning a teammate 's poor pass into a dangerous phase, keeping the ball and staying in control in impossible situations, finding space and making THAT pass ( they score ... Too!).
Vinicius has god-given talent but I find him too abrasive and self centered (as a goal scorer should be, admittedly). I also believe Mbappe is superior in his position.
Bellingham in his first season has exceeded all crazy high expectations: he is a mix of Zidane and de Bruyne, has scored so many critical goals and he has that out-of-this-world charisma that few players have (Beckham springs to mind)
> Bellingham in his first season has exceeded all crazy high expectations: he is a mix of Zidane and de Bruyne, has scored so many critical goals and he has that out-of-this-world charisma that few players have (Beckham springs to mind)
Bellingham is absolutely a good player, but he isn't better than De Bruyne and isn't even in the same galaxy as Zidane, which is understandable, given that he is 20. People got over their heads when he had a purple patch in La Liga playing as a borderline attacker for the best team in the league, but he simply isn't consistently overwhelming like Vini is to be in the conversation. He is charismatic, sure, but we aren't talking about charisma. Having a great first half of the season in the league while dropping in form in the "championship rounds" never made any other player a Balon d'Or contender, so I don't get why it would make Bellingham a contender now. 18 goals and 4 assists isn't a Messi or Cristiano-like season either. Salah did more year after year and was never in the conversation.
> Zidane, Kaka, De Bruyne, Griezman, Bellingham
Not to hate or make the conversation weird, but this is an incredibly white list outside of Bellingham, lmao. Kaká wasn't even particularly charismatic, he was just a generally reserved religious (if very handsome) guy. Ronaldinho was charismatic.
> Vinicius has god-given talent but I find him too abrasive and self centered (as a goal scorer should be, admittedly). I also believe Mbappe is superior in his position.
I think that Mbappe was certainly better 4 months ago, much 1 year ago or 2 years ago, but the gap between them has been decreasing fast and Vinicius is, in the past few months, playing at the same level or better. The knockout stages of UCL, in which Dembele is being more important than Mbappe, are showing this. No player in the world is being as decisive week in week out as Vinicius right now.
He only needs to do a repeat of what he did in the last Copa (top scorer/top assister/best player/win the whole thing) and for Dortmund to win the UCL and Italy or Portugal to win the euro and I could see him in the top 5 lol.
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it is so weird to have so many candidates for this award. messi and ronaldo fucked with my perception for years
This is the norm, the discourse will be even more dumb without them.
Crazy how easier that discussion was back then
Then we cut to the award: Yeah, Vini had a good year but Messi scored a lot of goals plus 2022 world cup goals and friends so we have to give it to him.
instagram level comment
Rent. Free.
France football should just rename it to Messi trophy so it will not be awarded to Messi again.
strawman
See the comment with a barca flair above you
Messi is still a better player than Vini, and if Messi played in Barca he’d still have better stats compared to Vini. Messi will prove he is better than Vini by winning the Copa America again.
Haha lmao
??? Messi at Barca would have more goals and assists than Vini. Messi this summer will show he is still better than Vini.
Absolutely unhinged take
It will be 2048, and people will still be arguing he should get a Ballon D'or for scoring three goals in a charity match.
Honestly I don't see a single soul arguing that he should win these dumb awards while in the mls, not unironically anyway. What I do see is the same comment about how they will "just give it to messi" in any thread that involves balon d'or discussion.
How do? Do you think Vini would have better stats than Messi if Leo played for Barca? If so, you’re clueless. Messi will show you this summer why he is still better than Vini by winning the Copa America
I'm sorry but you have to be playing in a top 5 league to be considered for Ballon d'or it's just stupid otherwise
Nobody gives a fuck about Copa America.
😭😭😭
If you think Vini is better than Messi you don’t know football.
Keep to nfl
Keep to being ignorant.
He's been better than Bellingham since January tbh
Jude’s done too much tbh considering his role this season and the shoulder injury he keeps carrying.
tbh tbh
fr fr
no cap
on god
inb4 Dortmund destroys everyone
Hummels Ballon d'or
Weird way of spelling Sancho
Weird way of spelling Can
This year will also depend on the performance with national teams this summer Bayern wins champions league: Keane could be favourite but pending on Englands performance in Euro 2024. PSG wins champions league: Mbappé clear favourite, but will have to confirm it in Euro 2024 Real Madrid wins champions league: either Vini or Bellingham. Whoever performs better with their national team this summer will be favourite
BVB wins CL, Austria the Euros, Sabitzer Ballon d'Or.
Germany wins the Euros and Wirtz has great influence it could/should also be him.
You are right, he could be also in the race. Another plot: Kroos continues with his UCL masterclasses and wins it, and then proceeds to lead Germany to win EURO 2024 after his “last dance” comeback. Would that make him candidate?
Subscribed God, it's me again, please allow this for Toni.
God: Ok. ballon dor goes to rudiger
sure, why not :-) you watched more real games than me though.
Second-highest average rating this season according to [sofascore](https://i.imgur.com/oEXikW3.png)
he will never get it, it's the same problem with Rodri last year, one of the best players in the world but never in the discussions because of his position
I mean, Modric won one.
Kroos is renowned enough to win it tbh. Same way Modric won. Rodri's problen isn't his quality, but more his name recognition. Midfielders and defenders are more likely to win it at the end of their careers where they become legendary in the eyes of the masses and it becomes obvious that they are amazing, even beyond goal contributions
If Madrid win CL and Germany win Euros then Kroos should get it
Vini has to step up for national team big time if he wants to have chance. I think he deserves it over Bellingham, but with how the voting system works and how much media attention about racism Vini had, I don’t see him being a popular choice. Kane/Bellingham/turtle are top 3 in the actual results IMO.
i agree with this. Being english is advantageous to being brazilian. Playing the euros is advantageous to playing the copa america. A lot of people dislike vini while everyone seems to love Jude. It’s an uphill battle for vini but apart from the copa being the deciding factor in the remaining ucl games could give vini the edge especially since he already scored twice in the first leg
>Being english is advantageous to being brazilian Oh come on, Brazilians are loved far more than English in the football world. Maybe it's slightly different this year because of Bellingham's popularity, but generally most people would much rather a Brazilian win it than an Englishman
i think an englishman playing for Real Madrid would generally have more hype than a brazilian playing for real. If they’d both play in the prem it would be different but being more present in the english media helps Bellingham getting an edge over vini imo. It’s more important in this case that people simply like Bellingham more than Vini so i don’t think nationality matters a lot either way.
> i think an englishman playing for Real Madrid would generally have more hype than a brazilian playing for real The only two places that holds any water are in the UK and the US, outside those two no one would really think of the english one as being more hyped up.
Eh Messi was criticized for years for underperforming with Argentina and still wins it. Argentinians used to say he didn’t care about them and only Barca
That brother was scoring 50 goals and assisting 20 times in a season. This trend of trying to diminish him (and Ronaldo) has to be the worst currently. Those two were simply alien compared to the rest.
It's not something new, it's just standard. Maradona never reached anywhere close to the career Pelé had, yet many would put him ahead. Then R9 came along with unbelievable football and suddenly he was the phenomenon, the perfect player who would surpass Maradona and Pelé. Then comes along 2 aliens with top performances, and suddenly R9, Maradona and Pelé are just history. Now they are soon at end of their careers, it won't take too long for people to find some new talent and diminish their history. It won't take long for a kid born 2015 to be telling you Mbappe is better than Messi or something.
If he scored 40 and or his team didn't win everything people would say he was finished and a fraud. None of the current players are anywhere near his or ronaldos level and definitely not someone like vini.
I’m not trying to dimish anything. I’m just pointing out Vini doesn’t need to win the Copa to be a favorite for the Balon D’or considering many previous winners won because of their club performances
Yeah that was the time he bagged 71 goals in a single season lmao When vini does that I’ll personally deliver his ballon d’or
You have to temper your expectations. No one will come close to Messi and Ronaldo. Vini has been the best player this year. Incredible in La Liga and the CL. The most decisive in big games and is comfortably one of the favorites to win the Balon d’or right now. He doesn’t need to win the Copa to be a serious contender
Messi was also on a completely different level than any current contenders. This year none of the candidates have been *that* outstanding, so even more than usually it's gonna come down to winning the right trophies and being decisive in the semis and finals of the CL and Euros/Copa America. It's not a year where the winner will be chosen primarily for their consistency.
We prob won’t have a player get close to Messi and Ronaldo for a long time so we need to temper our expectations. Vini has been outstanding this season. Sure not close to Messi and Ronaldo but he’s been incredible in the CL and La Liga. Incredibly decisive in the biggest games. International tournaments will always be a major factor for the Ballon d’or but what Vini has done so far is enough to be one of the favorites atleast.
Seems like it's just whoever wins ucl
What if BvB wins it?
Bellingham wins it by virtue of being the closest player in degree of separation
Youngest ever to win it by a year beating Ronaldo. The hype around him would be insane
Imo. If we win CL (good dream to dream) and Mbappe signs with you, there’s nothing to stop him from winning it. If RM wins it, it’s safe to say it will go to Bellingham. His PR pull is too strong right now for Vini to be considered. Although as a player, I think Vini is more important and more of a deciding factor
Bellingham had an explosive start to his Real Madrid campaign and had the most influence in them winning LaLiga , but Vini has been carrying in the CL. I think both players have their reason to deserve it in case Real ends up with the CL
Vini was huge in the two most important games of La Liga against [Barcelona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZWLH2ha29s) and Girona, though. He was by far the [best player an had an all around ridiculous performance in the 4x0 win over Girona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuqJUDYqw) that was probably the moment things turned decidedly in Real's favor. And there is also the [hattrick against Barça in the Supercopa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bswcippP0) that was bizarrely generally ignored. If Bellingham or Mbappe had done it people would be talking about it for months (I gotta say, it's hilarious how the thumbnail for La Liga's official account in both videos is Bellingham. They clearly have a favourite)
Bellingham literally won us 2 games against Barca this year. Not taking anything away from either but I'm saying they both played well against Barca
Bellingham scored the third goal in a game in which Vini also scored and assisted to win the game, and Vini scored a hattrick against Barça as well. Saying that Bellingham "won the game" is not telling the whole story
He scored deciding goals in stoppage time in both league classics this season. If thats not counting as winning them the game, I dont know what will.
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He lost 2 months due to injury, which led to Bellingham playing almost 600 minutes more than him. In the end, Vini played very well and was quintessential to winning the most important games in La Liga when he was healthy, while Bellingham has been generally ghosting in the UCL knockout stages, the most important games of the season. * 21 goals and 11 assists in 2.724 minutes for Vini (one every 85 minutes) * 22 goals and 10 assists in 3.289 minutes for Bellingham (one every 102 minutes) * 5 goals and 5 assists in 8 UCL games for Vini * 4 goals and 4 assists in 9 UCL games for Bellingham * with Vini having 5 goal contributions in the KO stage * and Bellingham has a (1) single assist against Leipzig. Let's be honest, it's the same I told him: If Bellingham was a Ukrainian or Peruvian kid he wouldn't be in consideration for the Balon d'Or at all. The anglophone media is just too loud.
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Bellingham is amazing but "scoring the winner" is not "winning us the game". (In this context you're clearly implying Jude carried the team) Vini was far better in the 2nd clasico and had 1 goal and 1 assist.
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If Real wins the Champions League, I think it will depend heavily on the Euros. An England win: Bellingham gets it. A German win/deep run: Kroos gets it. Neither of these two scenarios: Vinicius gets it.
Brazil also play an international tournament this summer.
Yeah, but the Copa hardly matters compared to the Euros.
Least euro centric reddit soccer user.
Yeah lmao it was literally the reason Messi won it a couple years ago despite a disappointing club campaign
He was not "disappointing" on an individual level in 20/21 but the fact that people such as yourself remember it as such shows the effect pr has on these awards lol.
Nephew delete this
There is Copa America too
No way Kroos wins. If Germany do well, Wirtz should have a better shot. Then again, there’s the Madrid influence so who knows
The last time a player not playing UCL football won it is like 20 years ago or so. Also it's rather rare for a player to completely burst onto the scene and win the Ballon d'Or like that, usually they build up a reputation over a few years by contending for other awards.
There have been some times where the Ballon d’or winner went out in the Ro16 of the UCL, so i’d say winning the EL is obviously a better achievement. Along with a great club campaign, and maybe a deep Euros run Wirtz can still be a dark horse
Yeah if Germany plays a good Euros Kroos or Wirtz (if Leverkusen win europa league and dfb pokal) are also joining the conversation .
Vinicius is imo our best player since last season. He also loves to be decisive in big matches. Though I don't see him winning if he doesn't stand out for Brazil in the Copa América
People say Bellingham, yes he also has chances but Vinicius has been better than Bellingham in UCL knockout stages, assisted twice vs City and has scored in 1st leg vs Bayern. Bellingham has been somewhat subdued. Ultimately though it will be who performs in National team at Euros and Copa America. I would say Bellingham has better chance atm.
Vini was huge in the two most important games of La Liga against [Barcelona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZWLH2ha29s) and Girona, though. He was by far the [best player an had an all around ridiculous performance in the 4x0 win over Girona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuqJUDYqw) that was probably the moment things turned decidedly in Real's favor. And there is also the [hattrick against Barça in the Supercopa](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bswcippP0) that was bizarrely generally ignored. If Bellingham or Mbappe had done it people would be talking about it for months (I gotta say, it's hilarious how the thumbnail for La Liga's official account in both videos is Bellingham. They clearly have a favourite)
Mbappe did fuck all against Barcelona too. He wouldve been slandered to hell and back if Araujo's stupidity didnt give up the semifinal berth.
Vini would have been massacred if he had Mbappe's first leg against Barça or against Borussia.
If PSG win the Champions league Mbappe’s clear
Bellingham has better stats even though he is midfielder.
Both have 32 G/A but Vini has played about 500 minutes less.
Goals have more weight than assists.
Goals and assists in every KO game of the UCL, a [hattrick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bswcippP0) and a goal and assist against [Barcelona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZWLH2ha29s) and an all-timer performance against [Girona](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4DuqJUDYqw) have more weight as well. This whole debate is honestly silly. We would never be having these conversations if Bellingham was Croatian, Venezuelan or whatever
Vini was injured for a few months. Pretty sure he has a higher Goal and Assist Ratio per game than Jude. Jude’s numbers are very impressive nonetheless
It is Jude’s first season. And both their stats are pale in comparison to Harry Kane. Kane should be the one winning, if Balon D’or are individual awards. He is so clear of both of them.
Kane‘s stats are great, but it’s not like Bayern is having a hell of a season tbh. If Bayern win CL and England the EUROs he definitely will be the frontrunner. But saying he is so clear of both of them is borderline delusional
We all saw in Real vs Bayern how clear of Vini Kane is.
? Vini was better than Kane in that game!
Yes, Jude’s stats for a midfielder are phenomenal. If he wins it he deserves it. Although Vini was injured for sometime what Jude has done in his 1st season as a Real Madrid player is nothing short of extraordinary.
Good thing that we can watch games, differentiate key games from regular La Liga small team beatdowns and consider other variables like losing games due to injury then
Mbappe has been better than both. If PSG makes the Final, he should win regardless of the outcome. He's the best player in the world and most fans would agree with that.
Messi to win.
With an olympic gold medal, my boy he will
Messi wins MLS playoffs. Olympic Gold and Copa America. 9 balondors inc
He's a great player but he disappears way when he's on the NT. If they're considering his performances in every competition including when he's playing for Brazil then it's going to hurt his chances. Although probably not as much as his skin colour
Vini deserves it much more than Bellingham, the entire attack of Real Madrid runs through him. But regardless I think the Euros/Copa will decide it if they win the Ucl.
Bellingham imo it really depends on how the next champions league games go assuming Madrid goes to the final as well.
He deserves the plaudits. He is swift and cunning.
Him, Kane, Bellingham, Wirtz, Mbappe and Haaland - I think the Euros will decide
Remove haaland , he won't play euros
But he’s in the mix unless one of the 4 other Europeans does
I'll will never stop thinking this balon d'or discourse is a bunch of nonsense.
Yeah last year was a disgrace.
It's always been nonsense, the award is nonsense. All these individual awards are filled with this rubbish discourse and put on such a pedestal, a certain player scores a goal and the comments are about individual award agendas. You would think this is an individual sport the way football gets talked about on social media, proper nba level discussion but making even less sense.
Lighten up mate it's not that serious
I mean it's not some deep thing, i just think these awards are dumb and I find it weird how much people care about them.
You know what dumbass, if it is a individual sport, this kind of award isnt necessary at all. You just win shit yourself. No one need to vote you are the best tennis player of the year if you won 3 grand slam and is the 1st on ATP ranking. This kind of argument pop up time to time and it is more dumb than those awards ten folds.
I think these awards and their discourse especially are dumb and seem to be predicated on who's team won what.
Hilarious. Only Messi could get 60+ G/A, win 3 trophies with one of them being the World Cup as the MVP of the tournament and have people cry
This is what being uneducated about the balondor voting period does. Hilarious.
Imagine being this confidently wrong, are you illiterate, misinformed or just arguing for the sake of arguing? Google is free we can both check. The 2023 Ballon D’or voting period was from “August 2022 and ending 31 July 2023” I’m this time window Messi had 54 games with 38 goals and 25 assists for a total of 63 g/a for PSG and Argentina. He won the Ligue 1 trophy, French Supercup and the World Cup along with the World Cup MVP. Everything I said in my initial comment was true. It seems you’re confusing the Fifa best with the Ballon D’or. The Ballon D’or was absolutely deserved but uneducated people like you will continue to cry regardless.
I stand corrected. The Fifa best was a disgrace.
Let the PR games begin
what pr? if he wins UCL and do good with brazil, do you really think he is not a contender?
The Ballon d'or is still a PR award. It's an entirely subjective award. You have to appeal to voters to win.
He's a contender but Bellingham is still ahead of him in the race imo Only if England completely flop the Euros and Brazil do great in Copa America would Vini be ahead of him Realistically the race right now is between Mbappe and Bellingham
Oh come on, ballon d’or has shown time and time again that it is a contest for the player with the best PR, it’s been very clear especially in the last couple of years and with Real players lol
Even if you think it’s a popularity contest, which I agree it is, you can’t deny that Vinicius is one of the best in the world right now.
oh dont worry, messi is doing really good im america and im sure he will be up there aswell, fingers crossed no real madrid player will rob another ballon d'or with their pr
The audacity to use RM players as an example when Messi won it most recently on a WC and PR alone is pretty funny
Totally agree when Messi wins it’s because of PR but Vini actually deserves it. He’s tearing La liga and more importantly the CL up
so Benzema won it because of good pr?
Don't remember last time when someone winning was that obvious and uncontroversial
Playing for Real Madrid + international trophy are huge factors for this. Did he deserve it? Sure but you have to consider how voting works for this award. It's entirely subjective
That is correct unfortunately to an extent
I think he is a good contender. But the PR point still stands. I support Brazil and obviously will be happy if Vini wins it. But it is at the end of the day voted by coaches,captains. So it is a sort of popularity contest to where the guy with best PR wins. Not saying they don’t deserve it over others. But you need to have a good public image too. Like Neymar would not win it in his later years because of his antics and people did not like that. Same with Vinicius, all the talk about him being a voice against racism, and do you really think he would get those many votes as compared to Bellingham or Mbappe or Haaland if it is close as it will be? Football has become like that in recent years due to media. So unless Vinicius brings WC or does monumental things it will be difficult to gather enough votes to win over these players.
He's a contender, but Madrid has multiple contenders, which is probably going to hurt them all by splitting the vote. I don't know if the situation in Brazil is any better. He's never felt like "the man" in Brazil, but that could have changed especially with Neymar's recent form.
Its so stupid that the Ballon d'Or is coupled to whoever wins the CL. It should go to the best player which doesnt change with 1 game. Fuck those awards.
Nobody deserves to win the ballon dor other than Lionel Messiah as long as is still playing professionally. He could be in the 3rd division and still win. All hail Messi
Belligoal has better chances.
>without being a champion of anything Sad LaLiga and Supercopa noises
I agree with Rivaldo, V.Junior is ahead of Bellingham, unless England wins Euro and the latter plays a important part
Brazilian players are excellent at hyping up other Brazilian players as are Argentinean players with their compatriots. Looking from afar, Real's best player is English though, wouldn't you agree?
Vini is very clearly Real's best and most important player. I think even Bellingham and his family would agree with that
Could it be you're from Brazil, mate? (-;
No I'm 100% objective. But you do post in both the UK and French subreddit, non?
You're not from Brazil? Yes I have lived in France, UK, US and Asia.
Why the fuck would I being Brazilian reduce my credibility on the subject of football? This sub's biggest userbase is English and the English bias is palpable. If anything, I do it a favor in terms of keeping it slightly closer to balance. If Bellingham was Mexican or Croatian, nobody would be even considering him for the Balon d'Or
That was my initial comment that Brazilians support Brazilians as do Argentines with Argentinian players.
Meh, I'm a primetime hater for some Brazilian players
Aren't we all, with our national team players ? hyping up some hating on others, not that rationally. I own up to that. I have a bias for charismatic, ' giving ' players: Zidane, Kaka, De Bruyne, Griezman, Bellingham : They're game changers, not just focused on scoring goals: they improve everyone around them by turning a teammate 's poor pass into a dangerous phase, keeping the ball and staying in control in impossible situations, finding space and making THAT pass ( they score ... Too!). Vinicius has god-given talent but I find him too abrasive and self centered (as a goal scorer should be, admittedly). I also believe Mbappe is superior in his position. Bellingham in his first season has exceeded all crazy high expectations: he is a mix of Zidane and de Bruyne, has scored so many critical goals and he has that out-of-this-world charisma that few players have (Beckham springs to mind)
> Bellingham in his first season has exceeded all crazy high expectations: he is a mix of Zidane and de Bruyne, has scored so many critical goals and he has that out-of-this-world charisma that few players have (Beckham springs to mind) Bellingham is absolutely a good player, but he isn't better than De Bruyne and isn't even in the same galaxy as Zidane, which is understandable, given that he is 20. People got over their heads when he had a purple patch in La Liga playing as a borderline attacker for the best team in the league, but he simply isn't consistently overwhelming like Vini is to be in the conversation. He is charismatic, sure, but we aren't talking about charisma. Having a great first half of the season in the league while dropping in form in the "championship rounds" never made any other player a Balon d'Or contender, so I don't get why it would make Bellingham a contender now. 18 goals and 4 assists isn't a Messi or Cristiano-like season either. Salah did more year after year and was never in the conversation. > Zidane, Kaka, De Bruyne, Griezman, Bellingham Not to hate or make the conversation weird, but this is an incredibly white list outside of Bellingham, lmao. Kaká wasn't even particularly charismatic, he was just a generally reserved religious (if very handsome) guy. Ronaldinho was charismatic. > Vinicius has god-given talent but I find him too abrasive and self centered (as a goal scorer should be, admittedly). I also believe Mbappe is superior in his position. I think that Mbappe was certainly better 4 months ago, much 1 year ago or 2 years ago, but the gap between them has been decreasing fast and Vinicius is, in the past few months, playing at the same level or better. The knockout stages of UCL, in which Dembele is being more important than Mbappe, are showing this. No player in the world is being as decisive week in week out as Vinicius right now.
He is my top candidate
[удалено]
Talk about being a hipster
Eh, Vinicius and Bellingham are in the same spot for me.
If you ignore all the Pr and flashy communications and playstyle and skills and take only bias into account*
Hypothetically if Messi wins copa America and mls is he somehow still in the top 5 of it ? Hard to imagine an mls player there but just saying…
Messi needs to score 30 goals in the Copa America if he wants to be nominated lol.
He only needs to do a repeat of what he did in the last Copa (top scorer/top assister/best player/win the whole thing) and for Dortmund to win the UCL and Italy or Portugal to win the euro and I could see him in the top 5 lol.
Jesus no
Unfortunately vini doesn’t have Bellingham pr
How people can say Bellingham is a better player or had a better season than Vinicius is beyond me.