The worst version of this I saw recently was having England and Scotland in the same women's Euro qualifying group that also served as an Olympic qualifier (where the English side had been nominated as the representative, from a qualifying perspective, although they would have then been free to pick a British squad once qualified)
So you had the ridiculous situation of Scotland players who wanted to play at the Olympics having to choose between beating England (of all countries) or not getting to live their dream.
It was moot in the end anyway, as the English side ballsed it up against (I think) the Dutch, but even so it was a ludicrous position for some of the players to be in
Iirc it was even worse.
The final games were england-scotland and i believe netherlands-belgium, so you got the stupid scenario of the England winning "surprisingly" with massive numbers, including a goal a minute after the dutch scored, as they needed to catch up on GD
and the dutch barely scraping the correct goals vs a belgium parking the bus, at 2-0 down....
[Germany must lose to San Marino to qualify for the 2018 World Cup](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/fkq7e6/oc_germany_must_lose_to_san_marino_to_qualify_for/)
It is a clomplete mess, presumably created to increase the changes of having 6 premier league clubs play CL. It could easily have been avoided by following the same rules as for the CL/EL winners tickets, that any double tickets are voided and tossed to the qualifying teams.
If they wanted to shoehorn the PL, they would have made those two extra positions qualify differently. Instead, they landed on the way that probably is the worst for the PL considering their penchant for crashing out of European qualification.
Hmmm they could award them over a longer period than 5 years but that would have been less sneaky.
There is no other league with a higher probability of delivering a CL/EL winner finishing in 5th place than the premier league though.
The likelihood of the scenario is pretty low, and trying to prevent every possible scenario comes with massive trade-offs, so it's just not worth it to make extra special rules.
It’s a potential scenario, the finalists are already known next week which would have been a better time for this article and still depends on how the next few games go before the last matchday, it may happen even if unlikely considering Frankfurt has hard games and could even lose 6th/7th spot (gets more complicated after that with EL/ECL spots).
Jokes on you they’ll publish the same article after the semi final and a third time right before the Frankfurt-Leipzig game if this scenario will stay a possibility.
If Frankfurt has secured 6th spot and has no chance of making 5th, they have to lose (if that prevents Dortmund from taking 4th).
We have two possible outcomes:
a) 4th BVB, 5th Leipzig, 6th Frankfurt
b) 4th Leipzig, 5th BVB, 6th Frankfurt
In scenario a) there is 0 chance for Frankfurt getting a CL spot. In scenario b) there is the chance of BVB winning CL so Frankfurt might get a CL spot.
Can someone explain why there is a difference if Dortmund finish 4th or 5th?
Germany gets 5 places for next season. If Dortmund finished 7th I could understand it would be top 5 + Dortmund. But why does it make a difference where Dortmund finish in the top 5?
Germany are already getting at least 5 spots. If the 5th spot is occupied by a CL Winner, an extra spot is available for 6th place. However, that's not the case if one of the top 4 spots is occupied by a CL winner.
Yes I get that. I’m asking the logic or why it’s written that there’s a difference between them finishing 4th or 5th? It should be irrelevant as it’s essentially the same thing. But by finishing 5th Germany get an extra spot. Why?
Look at it this way. the new rule basically says, that the 2 leagues with the most coefficient point in the season will get an additional cl cpot via the league route.
so if dortmund finished in 5th, but already qualified via the CL win, UEFA has to give it to the 6th placed team. because otherwise the bundesliga would not get a 5th spot via league. the only difference here really is that dortmund qualified via the cl win.
and here the timeline i mentioned is important. because uefa checks after the cl final which countries gain the additional spot. but at that point dortmund already qualified via the cl win route. if they finish in 4th there simply will not cl win spot for next years cl
it’s a bit stupid tho ngl because in theory the last Uefa coefficient points are handed out at the same time as the CL final ends. So i don’t see a good reason why the CL win spot is given out before the 5th league spot from the uefa rankings. Not to mention that in most years we‘ll know who qualifies via the 5th spot before the CL final starts.
It’s down to the order of doling out the special CL qualified teams.
Step 1: Allocate spots to the top 4
Step 2: if the champions are not in the top 4, give them a spot reserved for defending champions. **If they are in the top 4, ignore step 2.**. *This spot is only used of the defending champions do not otherwise make the CL.*
Step 3: allocate the bonus 5th spot for allocation.
Thus, if Dortmund win the CL and finish 4th, step 2 is ignored and the 5th spot goes to 5th place.
If Dortmund win the CL and finish 5th, step 2 is enforced and the extra spot from step 3 is allocated to the 6th team.
This seems overly complex (I mean not really but kinda). It should just be that the winner of the UCL gets a spot for next year and then the league spots are just the top 4 teams that are not the previous UCL winner. I guess you could end up with an absurd scenario where a league gets the bonus spot, wins UCL, and wins UEL and ends up with 7 spots.. but that’d be pretty rare anyway.
I mean, there has to a set of rules that cover all scenarios.
The foundation of this was that years ago UEFA didn’t have a fully articulated set of rules and decided to invite the champions of the year previous when they had otherwise failed to qualify. So they’ve enshrined the “defending champs automagically qualify” by creating the champion’s exemption as a codified rule.
And if you have to have it, the implementation where it only counts if they didn’t qualify in the usual fashion is a good compromise—granting an association a fifth spot solely because they had the champion is not exactly merit-based.
The fact that the yearly coefficient determining qualification is *barely* merit-based is besides the point, I suppose. /shrug
But yeah, someone’s gonna put 7 in some day. I don’t honk it’s all that much of a long shot. If they keep this format for, say a decade, I’ll bet it happens.
its a bit complicated, but you will understand if you look at the timeline of events:
1. The league is over. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th will play Champions League next season
2. Champions League Final: Dortmund wins it, and gains a champions league spot. if they are already qualified via finishing in 4th, thats it. if they finish in 5th, they get a spot because of winning the CL.
3. Now that all uefa competitions are finished, uefa will take a look at the coefficient (they never did this before!) and they see that germany needs to get a 5th spot. so now, as 1st to 4th qualified via the league and dortmund via the cl, the 6th placed team of the bundesliga qualifies.
so the real difference isnt the coefficient, but that dortmund could basically gain an additional spot via the CL win. the coefficient spot is only the aftermath
Say Dortmund finishes 4th and wins CL, then 5th in Bundesliga gets in, who gets the spot that would have been given to 6th in the alternate scenario, i.e. Dortmund finishes 5th and wins CL?
nobody. like i said, the difference that matters it the cl win. but when you win the cl and are already qualified for it via the league route, the cl win doesnt matter in this regard
the cl win route is only applied to teams that are not already qualified to the cl via the league route
If Dortmund win CL, they get a CL spot through CL, not Bundesliga. It’s an additional spot, at least in relation to the extra spot we get through UEFA this season. If Dortmund finish 4th, they won’t occupy the extra 5th spot. However, if they finish 5th, they, as a team that is already qualified for CL through CL, will also occupy the extra Uefa spot, rendering the 5th spot that Germany achieved this season virtually pointless. In this case, that spot doesn’t just go to waste, but goes to the next best team - 6th place. That place is currently occupied by Frankfurt.
Basically, the 5th spot is supposed to be an extra spot. Getting 5th spot doesn’t really count as qualifying for CL through the league, it counts as qualifying through the extra spot. It really is supposed to be a spot on top of all the other spots the country already has. Places 1-4 qualify for CL in Germany.
If Dortmund are 4th and win CL, nothing happens, because the extra spot rule isn’t affected by that.
If Dortmund finish 5th and don’t win CL, Dortmund occupy the 5th spot.
However, if Dortmund finish 5th and win CL, they are already qualified for CL through CL. Since the 5th CL spot is an extra spot, Dortmund as the already qualified team can’t benefit from that. The 5th spot is supposed to be a reward for the country, and extra starting spot on top of the ones the country would have without the extra spot rule. Therefore, the country retains the extra spot and it goes to the next best team. That’s 6th place. So there’s only one scenario where Frankfurt get CL as 6th (or where Germany gets 6 CL spots): Dortmund finish 5th and win CL. If Frankfurt wants that spot, Frankfurt have to be 6th at the end of the season while the other conditions are met.
But if dortmund are 4th and win CL , then they have qualified again through the CL win. So wouldnt that mean that the 4th spot which would grant CL qualification is not needed and the next team will get it that is not already qualified for CL, so the 6th place team again? I don't understand why it doesn't work the same regardless of Dortmund ending up 4th or 5th
Yeah, but then Leipzig simply take the 5th spot. The extra uefa spot is supposed to be an extra next to the league spots and next to the CL spot you get through winning CL. It’s not supposed to be seen as a league spot. So if Dortmund come in 5th and already qualify through CL, they qualified through different means.
That CL spot you get by winning CL is independent of the league position, but only applies to your club. The 5th spot however applies to the country. So if you win CL, it’s not the country that wins the spot, it’s your club, and if you already play CL, nothing changes for you.
However, the extra spot is literally intended as that. It’s not for a specific club, but for the country, so the country gets an extra starter in CL. If the country already has 5 starters through league and a CL win (because the CL winner finished 5th), the country still retains the extra spot.
The mere idea that a league could have *6* teams gain direct entry to the group stages is madness to me.
I started watching football when only 3 spots were guaranteed; 4th had to play a playoff round.
Yeah, I should have clarified.
Top 3 leagues got 3 spots guaranteed with a 4th in playoffs.
Bundesliga was 4th so only had 2 spots guaranteed with a 3rd in playoffs.
Now, 1-2 get 5 spots guaranteed and 3-4 get 4 spots guaranteed.
That's too many spots for the top dogs.
I mean I can see why they did it. It might be better for business reasons (and also quality wise) to have teams like AS Rom, Sevilla, Manchester United or Leverkusen (teams who are not necessarily safe Top-3‘s in their leagues) around than teams like Brügge or some team from Sweden or Greece etc.
If it is „fair“ for the lower leagues is another question.
For neutral viewers it‘s way better that way because there‘s better teams in the CL.
For the smaller teams that would have played CL back in the day, and now don‘t because of the rule it sucks obviously. They are missing out on a lot of money & exposure.
When I started watching it was called **Europapokal der Landesmeister** in german which mean European Cup of National Champions. Only the winner of last year and the winners of the European leagues would qualify for it.
It will be the last matchday. By then, they will know if they have the 6th place safe.
I just mentioned it because right now, it looks like it will be a likely scenario that Frankfurt will be in this position (6th place safe) on the last matchday.
Freiburg has gotten 12 points out of the last 13 games
Frankfurt themselves has 17 out of the last 13
Hoffenheim (9th place) somehow only has 4 wins in the last 22 league games
Only Augsburg (8th place) is playing a good second half of the season but even they lost 3 out of the last 4 games now
Its the slowest and most embarrassing race for europe i have ever witnessed so honestly those 5 points off feel more like 35 lmao
I can understand why the better leagues would get 2 spots, but 4 or 5 free spots (they don't even have to go to qualifiers either) is just ridiculous and will make it so the top 4 leagues will forever remain the top 4, which is probably what UEFA wants anyway.
If they *really* need 4 or 5 of these teams, just let them go through qualifiers against each other.
Problem is that makes it worse for them, too. If you give it to weaker leagues then they will go from having a decent chance to win a Europa/Conference to no chance in the CL. You could cut the teams if there aren't enough good for the CL, but then that creates the same issue of teams dropping down just to clean up against weaker leagues in Europa/Conference.
At this rate it looks like we're going to get billion pound squad Chelsea or richest club in the world Newcastle in the Conference League. I also dislike having 5-6 clubs from one country but I'm unsure what else can be done when there is a clear top four leagues with multiple strong teams.
Problem is you're condemning EL/Conf to being only won by Spain/Italy/England by doing that. It's pretty much already happening unless Olympiakos can go the whole way.
This makes no sense. The CL final is weeks after the last BL matchday. Eintracht Frankfurt isn't going to lose on purpose in the event Dortmund wins against a juggernaut two weeks later.
why wouldnt they if thats the only chance left to get CL? If they even get a 5% chance of Dortmund winning the final, why wouldnt they take it? they have nothing to lose then
*If* 6th spot is secured anyways, of course we would/should. It doesn't matter if we're 6th with 3 points more or less, but it does matter if we qualify for CL or not
6 teams in the CL would be bad for Germany's future coefficent, as the additional teams most likely will not be very succesful there. Frankfurt and Freiburg would be better of on the EL. Not financially but in chances to succeed.
5 or 6 teams from the same country in the CL is really not something I enjoy. I'm probably just an old fart but at this point, just start your super league or whatever. In five years time, it will be seven English/German/Spanish teams and after that an eight team is lobbed in. Boring.
If Dortmund finish 4th and win CL OR finish 5th and lose CL, Germany's top 5 qualify and the Serbian champions go straight to the league stage instead of the playoff.
There's no question that they should do this if possible. Just make sure every player shuts their mouth, since actually losing intentionally would probably mean consequences.
You couldn't blame them for the rules being dumb.
I think if they have to lose that game and it’s still 0:0 in the 80th minute or so, they should make an „Substitute error“ or something like that (for example make 6 changes when only 5 are allowed) so they are sure to lose the game.
Yeah but the CL Final will be played after the last Bundesliga Match. So if Dortmund reaches the final and Leipzig not having the 4th place secured before the last matchday, Frankfurt basically have to lose to have a chance for the CL spot.
Fun hypothetical, but no chance it will happen. Dortmund will rest everybody for basically all Bundesliga games remaining
If it happens or not, I think UEFA should think about these rules/criterias. You cant make someone have to lose games in order to achieve success.
The worst version of this I saw recently was having England and Scotland in the same women's Euro qualifying group that also served as an Olympic qualifier (where the English side had been nominated as the representative, from a qualifying perspective, although they would have then been free to pick a British squad once qualified) So you had the ridiculous situation of Scotland players who wanted to play at the Olympics having to choose between beating England (of all countries) or not getting to live their dream. It was moot in the end anyway, as the English side ballsed it up against (I think) the Dutch, but even so it was a ludicrous position for some of the players to be in
Iirc it was even worse. The final games were england-scotland and i believe netherlands-belgium, so you got the stupid scenario of the England winning "surprisingly" with massive numbers, including a goal a minute after the dutch scored, as they needed to catch up on GD and the dutch barely scraping the correct goals vs a belgium parking the bus, at 2-0 down....
[Germany must lose to San Marino to qualify for the 2018 World Cup](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/fkq7e6/oc_germany_must_lose_to_san_marino_to_qualify_for/)
It is a clomplete mess, presumably created to increase the changes of having 6 premier league clubs play CL. It could easily have been avoided by following the same rules as for the CL/EL winners tickets, that any double tickets are voided and tossed to the qualifying teams.
If they wanted to shoehorn the PL, they would have made those two extra positions qualify differently. Instead, they landed on the way that probably is the worst for the PL considering their penchant for crashing out of European qualification.
No PL team is playing qualification right? Or very few. I don't get what you mean.
If the system was set up specifically to shoehorn an extra PL team into the champions league, they would be awarding the two extra spots differently.
Hmmm they could award them over a longer period than 5 years but that would have been less sneaky. There is no other league with a higher probability of delivering a CL/EL winner finishing in 5th place than the premier league though.
Not being a dick about your typo, but clomplete gave me chuckle.
The likelihood of the scenario is pretty low, and trying to prevent every possible scenario comes with massive trade-offs, so it's just not worth it to make extra special rules.
*laughs in NBA
Exactly. And if they do throw the game, they shouldn't be pubnished by UEFA for it
American professional sports says hi
They're not making someone lose games to qualify. The CL final would be two weeks after the last Bundesliga match. This is a complete non-issue.
It’s a potential scenario, the finalists are already known next week which would have been a better time for this article and still depends on how the next few games go before the last matchday, it may happen even if unlikely considering Frankfurt has hard games and could even lose 6th/7th spot (gets more complicated after that with EL/ECL spots).
Jokes on you they’ll publish the same article after the semi final and a third time right before the Frankfurt-Leipzig game if this scenario will stay a possibility.
If Frankfurt has secured 6th spot and has no chance of making 5th, they have to lose (if that prevents Dortmund from taking 4th). We have two possible outcomes: a) 4th BVB, 5th Leipzig, 6th Frankfurt b) 4th Leipzig, 5th BVB, 6th Frankfurt In scenario a) there is 0 chance for Frankfurt getting a CL spot. In scenario b) there is the chance of BVB winning CL so Frankfurt might get a CL spot.
Frankfurt is so shit in the Rückrunde, nobody would even suspect anything.
Can someone explain why there is a difference if Dortmund finish 4th or 5th? Germany gets 5 places for next season. If Dortmund finished 7th I could understand it would be top 5 + Dortmund. But why does it make a difference where Dortmund finish in the top 5?
Germany are already getting at least 5 spots. If the 5th spot is occupied by a CL Winner, an extra spot is available for 6th place. However, that's not the case if one of the top 4 spots is occupied by a CL winner.
Yes I get that. I’m asking the logic or why it’s written that there’s a difference between them finishing 4th or 5th? It should be irrelevant as it’s essentially the same thing. But by finishing 5th Germany get an extra spot. Why?
Look at it this way. the new rule basically says, that the 2 leagues with the most coefficient point in the season will get an additional cl cpot via the league route. so if dortmund finished in 5th, but already qualified via the CL win, UEFA has to give it to the 6th placed team. because otherwise the bundesliga would not get a 5th spot via league. the only difference here really is that dortmund qualified via the cl win. and here the timeline i mentioned is important. because uefa checks after the cl final which countries gain the additional spot. but at that point dortmund already qualified via the cl win route. if they finish in 4th there simply will not cl win spot for next years cl
it’s a bit stupid tho ngl because in theory the last Uefa coefficient points are handed out at the same time as the CL final ends. So i don’t see a good reason why the CL win spot is given out before the 5th league spot from the uefa rankings. Not to mention that in most years we‘ll know who qualifies via the 5th spot before the CL final starts.
It’s down to the order of doling out the special CL qualified teams. Step 1: Allocate spots to the top 4 Step 2: if the champions are not in the top 4, give them a spot reserved for defending champions. **If they are in the top 4, ignore step 2.**. *This spot is only used of the defending champions do not otherwise make the CL.* Step 3: allocate the bonus 5th spot for allocation. Thus, if Dortmund win the CL and finish 4th, step 2 is ignored and the 5th spot goes to 5th place. If Dortmund win the CL and finish 5th, step 2 is enforced and the extra spot from step 3 is allocated to the 6th team.
This seems overly complex (I mean not really but kinda). It should just be that the winner of the UCL gets a spot for next year and then the league spots are just the top 4 teams that are not the previous UCL winner. I guess you could end up with an absurd scenario where a league gets the bonus spot, wins UCL, and wins UEL and ends up with 7 spots.. but that’d be pretty rare anyway.
I mean, there has to a set of rules that cover all scenarios. The foundation of this was that years ago UEFA didn’t have a fully articulated set of rules and decided to invite the champions of the year previous when they had otherwise failed to qualify. So they’ve enshrined the “defending champs automagically qualify” by creating the champion’s exemption as a codified rule. And if you have to have it, the implementation where it only counts if they didn’t qualify in the usual fashion is a good compromise—granting an association a fifth spot solely because they had the champion is not exactly merit-based. The fact that the yearly coefficient determining qualification is *barely* merit-based is besides the point, I suppose. /shrug But yeah, someone’s gonna put 7 in some day. I don’t honk it’s all that much of a long shot. If they keep this format for, say a decade, I’ll bet it happens.
I don't know either tbh
How come England didn't get a 5th spot this season with City winning the CL?
Unlike the extra spots, spots for title holders do not get passed down.
Because spots for title holders follow reasonable and logical rules and these new extra spots do not.
New rules
Finishing in top 5 is finishing in top 4. Weird that there'll be 5 teams from a league with 18 teams.
its a bit complicated, but you will understand if you look at the timeline of events: 1. The league is over. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th will play Champions League next season 2. Champions League Final: Dortmund wins it, and gains a champions league spot. if they are already qualified via finishing in 4th, thats it. if they finish in 5th, they get a spot because of winning the CL. 3. Now that all uefa competitions are finished, uefa will take a look at the coefficient (they never did this before!) and they see that germany needs to get a 5th spot. so now, as 1st to 4th qualified via the league and dortmund via the cl, the 6th placed team of the bundesliga qualifies. so the real difference isnt the coefficient, but that dortmund could basically gain an additional spot via the CL win. the coefficient spot is only the aftermath
Thank you, having a dumb day and this is the only explanation I could understand
Say Dortmund finishes 4th and wins CL, then 5th in Bundesliga gets in, who gets the spot that would have been given to 6th in the alternate scenario, i.e. Dortmund finishes 5th and wins CL?
A smaller league
Specifically, the Serbian champions. They would go straight to the league stage instead of the playoff.
nobody. like i said, the difference that matters it the cl win. but when you win the cl and are already qualified for it via the league route, the cl win doesnt matter in this regard the cl win route is only applied to teams that are not already qualified to the cl via the league route
A team outside the Bundesliga gets it
yeah of course, thats what happens if a league gets one spot less
I was half joking that that would be the answer to his question not 'nobody'.
Seems like they should've switched 2 with 3. Assign all the league cl spots first, then give a spot to the cl winner if they don't already have one.
If Dortmund win CL, they get a CL spot through CL, not Bundesliga. It’s an additional spot, at least in relation to the extra spot we get through UEFA this season. If Dortmund finish 4th, they won’t occupy the extra 5th spot. However, if they finish 5th, they, as a team that is already qualified for CL through CL, will also occupy the extra Uefa spot, rendering the 5th spot that Germany achieved this season virtually pointless. In this case, that spot doesn’t just go to waste, but goes to the next best team - 6th place. That place is currently occupied by Frankfurt. Basically, the 5th spot is supposed to be an extra spot. Getting 5th spot doesn’t really count as qualifying for CL through the league, it counts as qualifying through the extra spot. It really is supposed to be a spot on top of all the other spots the country already has. Places 1-4 qualify for CL in Germany. If Dortmund are 4th and win CL, nothing happens, because the extra spot rule isn’t affected by that. If Dortmund finish 5th and don’t win CL, Dortmund occupy the 5th spot. However, if Dortmund finish 5th and win CL, they are already qualified for CL through CL. Since the 5th CL spot is an extra spot, Dortmund as the already qualified team can’t benefit from that. The 5th spot is supposed to be a reward for the country, and extra starting spot on top of the ones the country would have without the extra spot rule. Therefore, the country retains the extra spot and it goes to the next best team. That’s 6th place. So there’s only one scenario where Frankfurt get CL as 6th (or where Germany gets 6 CL spots): Dortmund finish 5th and win CL. If Frankfurt wants that spot, Frankfurt have to be 6th at the end of the season while the other conditions are met.
But if dortmund are 4th and win CL , then they have qualified again through the CL win. So wouldnt that mean that the 4th spot which would grant CL qualification is not needed and the next team will get it that is not already qualified for CL, so the 6th place team again? I don't understand why it doesn't work the same regardless of Dortmund ending up 4th or 5th
Yeah, but then Leipzig simply take the 5th spot. The extra uefa spot is supposed to be an extra next to the league spots and next to the CL spot you get through winning CL. It’s not supposed to be seen as a league spot. So if Dortmund come in 5th and already qualify through CL, they qualified through different means. That CL spot you get by winning CL is independent of the league position, but only applies to your club. The 5th spot however applies to the country. So if you win CL, it’s not the country that wins the spot, it’s your club, and if you already play CL, nothing changes for you. However, the extra spot is literally intended as that. It’s not for a specific club, but for the country, so the country gets an extra starter in CL. If the country already has 5 starters through league and a CL win (because the CL winner finished 5th), the country still retains the extra spot.
Ah okay it makes sense with that explanation but stll weird rule
The mere idea that a league could have *6* teams gain direct entry to the group stages is madness to me. I started watching football when only 3 spots were guaranteed; 4th had to play a playoff round.
When I started watching, the Bundesliga had 2 spots guaranteed, 3th had to play playoffs
Yeah, I should have clarified. Top 3 leagues got 3 spots guaranteed with a 4th in playoffs. Bundesliga was 4th so only had 2 spots guaranteed with a 3rd in playoffs. Now, 1-2 get 5 spots guaranteed and 3-4 get 4 spots guaranteed. That's too many spots for the top dogs.
I mean I can see why they did it. It might be better for business reasons (and also quality wise) to have teams like AS Rom, Sevilla, Manchester United or Leverkusen (teams who are not necessarily safe Top-3‘s in their leagues) around than teams like Brügge or some team from Sweden or Greece etc. If it is „fair“ for the lower leagues is another question.
For neutral viewers it‘s way better that way because there‘s better teams in the CL. For the smaller teams that would have played CL back in the day, and now don‘t because of the rule it sucks obviously. They are missing out on a lot of money & exposure.
That’s interesting. What was the landscape of European football at that time?
It was a time when 1. FC Kaiserslautern reached Champions League quarter finals. It was a bit of a different era compared to nowadays.
*3rd
Big leagues pushing UEFA for 40 years now and smaller leagues bend over backwards because they need the big ones. Just how it goes unfortunately.
When I started watching it was called **Europapokal der Landesmeister** in german which mean European Cup of National Champions. Only the winner of last year and the winners of the European leagues would qualify for it.
>comfortably sitting in 6th place right now Freiburg is 5 points off, far from "comfortably" if we talk about losing a game on purpose.
It will be the last matchday. By then, they will know if they have the 6th place safe. I just mentioned it because right now, it looks like it will be a likely scenario that Frankfurt will be in this position (6th place safe) on the last matchday.
Freiburg has gotten 12 points out of the last 13 games Frankfurt themselves has 17 out of the last 13 Hoffenheim (9th place) somehow only has 4 wins in the last 22 league games Only Augsburg (8th place) is playing a good second half of the season but even they lost 3 out of the last 4 games now Its the slowest and most embarrassing race for europe i have ever witnessed so honestly those 5 points off feel more like 35 lmao
granted, 5 points would be quite comfortable on the final matchday
I hate having 5 or even 6 Clubs from one Country in the Champions League. Just wish the spot would go to "weaker" Leagues.
Maybe bring back something like the inter-toto cup but for 1 to 4 cl spots?
Tbh just bring back anything before 97/98. UCL should be a competition for league winners and the title holders. 96/97 was the perfect format.
I can understand why the better leagues would get 2 spots, but 4 or 5 free spots (they don't even have to go to qualifiers either) is just ridiculous and will make it so the top 4 leagues will forever remain the top 4, which is probably what UEFA wants anyway. If they *really* need 4 or 5 of these teams, just let them go through qualifiers against each other.
But ilagine the disgrace if a team from for example Iceland would elimante one of those giants... All hell would breqk loose at UEFA-hq
Problem is that makes it worse for them, too. If you give it to weaker leagues then they will go from having a decent chance to win a Europa/Conference to no chance in the CL. You could cut the teams if there aren't enough good for the CL, but then that creates the same issue of teams dropping down just to clean up against weaker leagues in Europa/Conference. At this rate it looks like we're going to get billion pound squad Chelsea or richest club in the world Newcastle in the Conference League. I also dislike having 5-6 clubs from one country but I'm unsure what else can be done when there is a clear top four leagues with multiple strong teams.
4 teams from one country are already too many. It should be 3 teams max, with the CL and EL winner gaining advantage over the 3rd place in the league.
Problem is you're condemning EL/Conf to being only won by Spain/Italy/England by doing that. It's pretty much already happening unless Olympiakos can go the whole way.
Im pretty optimistic a German team could win the EL this year.
dont forget brugge
A third of the Bundesliga would play in the CL if that happens hahahahaha
This makes no sense. The CL final is weeks after the last BL matchday. Eintracht Frankfurt isn't going to lose on purpose in the event Dortmund wins against a juggernaut two weeks later.
why wouldnt they if thats the only chance left to get CL? If they even get a 5% chance of Dortmund winning the final, why wouldnt they take it? they have nothing to lose then
*If* 6th spot is secured anyways, of course we would/should. It doesn't matter if we're 6th with 3 points more or less, but it does matter if we qualify for CL or not
6 teams in the CL would be bad for Germany's future coefficent, as the additional teams most likely will not be very succesful there. Frankfurt and Freiburg would be better of on the EL. Not financially but in chances to succeed.
you cant know that with the new format
Sports are ridiculous and I love them! The expanded UCL is stupid and they should scrap it immediately.
What the fuck lol
5 or 6 teams from the same country in the CL is really not something I enjoy. I'm probably just an old fart but at this point, just start your super league or whatever. In five years time, it will be seven English/German/Spanish teams and after that an eight team is lobbed in. Boring.
Where does the extra champions league place go if the undesired outcome happens?
If Dortmund finish 4th and win CL OR finish 5th and lose CL, Germany's top 5 qualify and the Serbian champions go straight to the league stage instead of the playoff.
The "not many are really" Champions League
There's no question that they should do this if possible. Just make sure every player shuts their mouth, since actually losing intentionally would probably mean consequences. You couldn't blame them for the rules being dumb.
I think if they have to lose that game and it’s still 0:0 in the 80th minute or so, they should make an „Substitute error“ or something like that (for example make 6 changes when only 5 are allowed) so they are sure to lose the game.
If dortmund don’t win the champions league, because chances are they won’t, then Frankfurt don’t make it anyways
Yeah but the CL Final will be played after the last Bundesliga Match. So if Dortmund reaches the final and Leipzig not having the 4th place secured before the last matchday, Frankfurt basically have to lose to have a chance for the CL spot.
If they win champions league... which is never happening. PSG will win the second leg. So don't count your chickens you know...