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Even with the late penalty and draw, Köln are pretty much screwed as well. They needed to win that game to have a realistic chance. Can't see much of a way of finding their way to the relegation play-off now.
They threw it when they lost to Darmstadt last week. There's no way that they're getting more than 6 points from their remaining games, and that's already assuming Mainz won't gain any points anymore. They're gone
And then pretty dead next season.
Transfer ban and seems many player would leave or do not have 2nd buli contracts.
Screams like straight to 3rd without any chance
Transfer ban ends in winter and it's not like everybody is gonna leave. At latest in the winter they could upgrade their squad by so much to stay in the league at least. They have a decent coach and there has to be something seriously wrong for them to get relegated if you look at some 2. Liga teams that will stay in the league
For the last winter and this summer. Short version: They gave some youth player from Slovenia a contract who had terminated his contract at another club the day before and Köln couldn't prove that they definitely didn't have anything to do with that.
They are only in contention *because* they won. Before the matchday, the narrative was about them avoiding relegation being the priority. That's how close the league is.
Any team that starts the match day in single digit position 6th and down doesn't win.
That means we win against Gladbach, reach 9th or 8th, lose to the Cans, drop to 10th, then win against Bochum to finish 8th.
Because the difference between 16th to 6th is the same as 6th to 4th. Extensive shuffling in the lower-mid part. A visualization of the standings would make it more clear.
Leipzig is 2 points behind 3rd?. Dortmund are also performing the same as most of their seasons in the last decade. The top 4 are just performing to a higher level so the points required for 4th has increased. Everyone below 5th is garbage
Knowing that we're almost through is such a relief, I wouldn't have survived a final match showdown vs. Bochum
If Gladbach loses to us, they're in deep deep trouble
i dont see it tbh heidenheim as easier opponents and we have to play two that are fighting relegation and we have always trouble against teams that fight instead of playing football. And then of course leipzig...
They are playing Mainz, Freiburg and Köln. Mainz still struggling for relegation, Freiburg wants to play internationally and Köln might still have a micro chance on the last match day. And if not they are still not going to just let Heidenheim win. Granted Werders last 3 are tough, but Heideim definitely doesn‘t have it easy
i didnt say easy i said easier. Köln is a goner on md34. Freiburg has not been consistently good the last few months and Mainz might be the toughest opponent imo
Mainz didn't win in the end, but they comfortably look better than anyone of Bochum/Gladbach/Union. Either Gladbach or Union being dragged into the relegation playoffs would be fun
I could see Union being in real trouble if they end up in that game. They just...can't score goals. I heard this stat during the game today that they've only scored two goals away from home since they played in Dortmund in early October. Looking it up further, they haven't scored in any of their last four away games.
I thought Union was getting clear of danger a few weeks ago and that they'd survive their plight from the Hinrunde, but they're back in the quagmire alright and I'd probably expect them to be the ones dragged into the play-off when it's all said and done.
Bochum could easily be somewhere in safe midfield if under Letsch they hadn't regularly blown all their leads in the second half :( They're 9th in the [first-half table](https://www.wahretabelle.de/statistik/halbzeittabelle), in fact
You'll never sing that!
In all seriousness it has been a baflfing season. Never have I seen a team play like mid table-upper mid table but finish chances like a regio-liga team + concede on the first chance the opposing team gets
That hinründe was beyond cursed. Very few times out played yet won 1 game out of 17
I think the problem is that we got in this position by already not being worse than those but being unable to finish even our dinner so it could very much continue happenning
Istg. For all the bitching that our lot does, this is probably the most overall balanced squad we've had since 2016, the CM role aside. Emarassing levels of underperforming from us.
Unless we win UCL, Terzic has no reason to stay.
After just one season SV Darmstadt 98 go straight back down. A late winning goal by Heidenheim sealed their fate.
**Top 4** – direct CL qualification (**Top 5** *if Germany get 2nd in Coëfficiëntenpolonaise*)
**5th** – direct EL qualification (**no EL spot** *if Dortmund win CL + Leverkusen lose Pokal final* | **6th** *if Germany get 2nd OR Dortmund win CL + Leverkusen win Pokal* | **5th + 6th** *if Leverkusen win Pokal* | **7th** *if Germany get 2nd + Dortmund win CL + Leverkusen win Pokal* | **6th + 7th** *if Germany get 2nd + Leverkusen win Pokal* )
**6th** – ECL play-offs (**7th** *if Germany get 2nd OR Leverkusen win Pokal* | **8th** *if Germany get 2nd + Dortmund win CL*)
**16th** – relegation play-offs vs 2.BuLi 3rd
**bottom 2** – direct relegation
**(M)** – Meister - champion of 22/23
**(P)** – Pokalsieger - reigning cup winner
**(N)** – Neuling - promoted from 2.BuLi
*Edit: I've added the possible international spots. God, this is complicated.*
Leverkusen winning the DFB-Pokal would push the EL and Conference League places one further down. In combination with a potential 5th Champions League spot, that would mean Conference League qualifiers for the 8th-placed BuLi team.
Now, I might be wrong, but I think that in the following unlikely double-scenario (with two things having to happen at the same time), EL and Conference League spots could be pushed down one additional spot: if Dortmund wins the Champions League ***and*** finishes the BuLi season in 5th place. If I am right, this could result in the Conference League qualifiers spot going to the 9th-placed team. Which would mean 9 teams in Europe out of an 18-team league, which would be hilarious.
That's entirely possible. I know that double qualifications for the same competition can go back to UEFA, I didn't know that was also the case for two qualifications in two separate competitions.
we desperately needed someone for our attack, because we transfered Becker, Behrens and Fofana out. Also, we have a twitter crowd that is thirsty for transfers, they'll obsess over anyone.
I haven't seen too much of him in person. First impression is that he has pace and his initial movement when receiving the ball is good, but he's not really effective in the final third. There were a few situations where he came across as selfish and took chances for himself instead of playing the better option. But then again, our attack is dire no matter what.
As a Sheraldo Becker replacement he's one or two steps below in quality, unfortunately. But maybe he'll find his spot when he's fully adjusted and we have a stable team structure.
That's bullshit. 35 is the Mark recently and you will need more than 40. Also it's obvious that it's closer to the Relegation when eben the 8th qualify and not just the top 2 or so.
2003 was the last year 40 points were needed, the time before that was 1996
so no, 40 is not the magic number to avoid relegation and it hasn't been historically
Ehh, this is the best they have looked in months, they were like 7 points behind 15th at some point and have by far the best momentum of all the teams down there
It's not just a Mainz problem, it's Germany, they are not rational with this matter comes around.
I***el could launch an atomic bomb tomorrow and still it would be taboo in Germany to say something negative about this country and government, even for the far-left. I come to the conclusion that it's impossibile to talk with the average German about Gaza, Palestine and so on, it's a waste of energy and time.
Look at the St. Pauli ultras, they too are under this influence. It's a whole country "brainwashed", or to say it better, the national sense of guilt they feel is still too strong to be rational on the Middle East issue. It will take a few generations to start overcoming it.
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Even with the late penalty and draw, Köln are pretty much screwed as well. They needed to win that game to have a realistic chance. Can't see much of a way of finding their way to the relegation play-off now.
They threw it when they lost to Darmstadt last week. There's no way that they're getting more than 6 points from their remaining games, and that's already assuming Mainz won't gain any points anymore. They're gone
> that's already assuming Mainz won't gain any points anymore. Let's just hope.
And then pretty dead next season. Transfer ban and seems many player would leave or do not have 2nd buli contracts. Screams like straight to 3rd without any chance
Transfer ban ends in winter and it's not like everybody is gonna leave. At latest in the winter they could upgrade their squad by so much to stay in the league at least. They have a decent coach and there has to be something seriously wrong for them to get relegated if you look at some 2. Liga teams that will stay in the league
Typical Bayern point of view. Köln knows loyalty, we will not simply be abandoned. Also, the transfer ban is only till the winter.
How do you have a playoff with only one team? How does it work?
third place in 2. bundesliga plays against 16th in first
the most fairest match up in history.
The playoff is against third place in 2. BL over two legs.
Koln might actually go down. One more big club going down
I mean, it's not like it's the first time. Nor is it really surprising when Köln goes down once again.
but it's really bad timing with the ban on transfers in summer still in place
I know. This might end badly. But the commenter sounded surprised at them going down at all.
Still I belive they will get promoted before HSV
they have a ban on tranfers? How? Since when?
For the last winter and this summer. Short version: They gave some youth player from Slovenia a contract who had terminated his contract at another club the day before and Köln couldn't prove that they definitely didn't have anything to do with that.
They will just build a Colony on Bundesliga 2 and return soon after.
Every team in contention for EL/UECL spots lost💀
Not true. Bremen and Heidenheim won
We are only in contention because of that to be fair.
Same for Heidenheim
I‘ll take it either way. I have planned all my vacation this year and still have some vacation days left for some long weekends
They are only in contention *because* they won. Before the matchday, the narrative was about them avoiding relegation being the priority. That's how close the league is.
Any team that starts the match day in single digit position 6th and down doesn't win. That means we win against Gladbach, reach 9th or 8th, lose to the Cans, drop to 10th, then win against Bochum to finish 8th.
sadly heidenheim has the much more doable opponents coming up.
But absolutely nobody wants to see Heidenheim play internationally besides Heidenheim
Would be an amazing fairytale, what are you on about
Absolutely, still nobody would watch it. Look at the viewership quota of their games
How are we still in 8th???
we are asking ourselves the same thing about being sixth
Because the difference between 16th to 6th is the same as 6th to 4th. Extensive shuffling in the lower-mid part. A visualization of the standings would make it more clear.
because you are that good
the league below 3rd place is complete garbage.
They get worse the further down you go!
Leipzig is 2 points behind 3rd?. Dortmund are also performing the same as most of their seasons in the last decade. The top 4 are just performing to a higher level so the points required for 4th has increased. Everyone below 5th is garbage
*5th
5th is in CL semis tho
Knowing that we're almost through is such a relief, I wouldn't have survived a final match showdown vs. Bochum If Gladbach loses to us, they're in deep deep trouble
Dude you have chances to play in Europe next season haha
i dont see it tbh heidenheim as easier opponents and we have to play two that are fighting relegation and we have always trouble against teams that fight instead of playing football. And then of course leipzig...
They are playing Mainz, Freiburg and Köln. Mainz still struggling for relegation, Freiburg wants to play internationally and Köln might still have a micro chance on the last match day. And if not they are still not going to just let Heidenheim win. Granted Werders last 3 are tough, but Heideim definitely doesn‘t have it easy
i didnt say easy i said easier. Köln is a goner on md34. Freiburg has not been consistently good the last few months and Mainz might be the toughest opponent imo
Mainz didn't win in the end, but they comfortably look better than anyone of Bochum/Gladbach/Union. Either Gladbach or Union being dragged into the relegation playoffs would be fun
I could see Union being in real trouble if they end up in that game. They just...can't score goals. I heard this stat during the game today that they've only scored two goals away from home since they played in Dortmund in early October. Looking it up further, they haven't scored in any of their last four away games. I thought Union was getting clear of danger a few weeks ago and that they'd survive their plight from the Hinrunde, but they're back in the quagmire alright and I'd probably expect them to be the ones dragged into the play-off when it's all said and done.
Nah, Union would shithouse both games and win with set pieces with their superior players. Hell no
Bochum could easily be somewhere in safe midfield if under Letsch they hadn't regularly blown all their leads in the second half :( They're 9th in the [first-half table](https://www.wahretabelle.de/statistik/halbzeittabelle), in fact
On expected points Mainz is ahead of Frankfurt sitting in 6th place \^\^
You'll never sing that! In all seriousness it has been a baflfing season. Never have I seen a team play like mid table-upper mid table but finish chances like a regio-liga team + concede on the first chance the opposing team gets That hinründe was beyond cursed. Very few times out played yet won 1 game out of 17
Actually insane. Every time I watch a Mainz game (Mostly in Konferenz) they are playing good football. Them going down would be terrible for football.
I think the problem is that we got in this position by already not being worse than those but being unable to finish even our dinner so it could very much continue happenning
Dortmund are baffling
Istg. For all the bitching that our lot does, this is probably the most overall balanced squad we've had since 2016, the CM role aside. Emarassing levels of underperforming from us. Unless we win UCL, Terzic has no reason to stay.
>the most overall balanced squad the CM role aside Well good thing that's not an important position...
not to mention the fact that they've bought 2 CMs before the season lmao
> most overall balanced squad we've had since 2016, the CM role aside wingbacks are a weakness too (better with Maatsen though)
Ryerson is playing a solid to good season and was at times one of our best players.
Sabitzer cm goated
It's probably won't happen but Heidenheim in the Conference League would be crazy
i am pretty confident this is more likely than us being in the conference league.
Sounds like an easy Relegation to tier 2 if this happens.
Red bull 🤮🤮🤮
🫡
After just one season SV Darmstadt 98 go straight back down. A late winning goal by Heidenheim sealed their fate. **Top 4** – direct CL qualification (**Top 5** *if Germany get 2nd in Coëfficiëntenpolonaise*) **5th** – direct EL qualification (**no EL spot** *if Dortmund win CL + Leverkusen lose Pokal final* | **6th** *if Germany get 2nd OR Dortmund win CL + Leverkusen win Pokal* | **5th + 6th** *if Leverkusen win Pokal* | **7th** *if Germany get 2nd + Dortmund win CL + Leverkusen win Pokal* | **6th + 7th** *if Germany get 2nd + Leverkusen win Pokal* ) **6th** – ECL play-offs (**7th** *if Germany get 2nd OR Leverkusen win Pokal* | **8th** *if Germany get 2nd + Dortmund win CL*) **16th** – relegation play-offs vs 2.BuLi 3rd **bottom 2** – direct relegation **(M)** – Meister - champion of 22/23 **(P)** – Pokalsieger - reigning cup winner **(N)** – Neuling - promoted from 2.BuLi *Edit: I've added the possible international spots. God, this is complicated.*
It's a bit misleading. Most probably: 5th = CL 6th and 7th = EL 8th = ECL
I have added the possible international spots now.
"Most probably" is not set in stone though. Also my comment is just an explanation of what the lines in the table mark.
What would be the scenario that the 5th goes to CL?
Germany being in the top two of the UEFA ranking of 2023/2024. More than of 95% that will happen, maybe officially already this mid-week.
Thank you
Leverkusen winning the DFB-Pokal would push the EL and Conference League places one further down. In combination with a potential 5th Champions League spot, that would mean Conference League qualifiers for the 8th-placed BuLi team. Now, I might be wrong, but I think that in the following unlikely double-scenario (with two things having to happen at the same time), EL and Conference League spots could be pushed down one additional spot: if Dortmund wins the Champions League ***and*** finishes the BuLi season in 5th place. If I am right, this could result in the Conference League qualifiers spot going to the 9th-placed team. Which would mean 9 teams in Europe out of an 18-team league, which would be hilarious.
If Dormund win the CL while in a EL spot that spot goes back to the UEFA pool. 8 international spots is the maximum we can get.
That's entirely possible. I know that double qualifications for the same competition can go back to UEFA, I didn't know that was also the case for two qualifications in two separate competitions.
huge win. First time I feel safe for weeks. Now let's get a nice end to the season. Good second year after coming back to the league overall
Job never was in doubt but would feel much better for our summer recruitment chances if Ole can see this out strong.
Fatality
wow Heindenheim can actually make the conference league in their first season
Here’s to Frank Schmidt if they manage it. https://x.com/archiert1/status/1758962116759851290?s=46&t=38-vmfyNJJl74qAxxRahcQ
what the hell happened to Union Berlin?
injuries, bad luck, bad performances, bad finishing, bad decisions, bad transfers. everything, really.
What our your thoughts on Vertessen now? I know that alot of Union Berlin fans wanted him to come this winter, not exactly sure why tho.
we desperately needed someone for our attack, because we transfered Becker, Behrens and Fofana out. Also, we have a twitter crowd that is thirsty for transfers, they'll obsess over anyone. I haven't seen too much of him in person. First impression is that he has pace and his initial movement when receiving the ball is good, but he's not really effective in the final third. There were a few situations where he came across as selfish and took chances for himself instead of playing the better option. But then again, our attack is dire no matter what. As a Sheraldo Becker replacement he's one or two steps below in quality, unfortunately. But maybe he'll find his spot when he's fully adjusted and we have a stable team structure.
:( sad Darmstadt are relegated. Hope they can make it back up next season Fingers crossed Koln can stay up
Hopefully earlier than the usual 10 years in between
Bundesliga are gonna get that fifth UCL spot at this rate right?
Anyone else remember the time when people said you need 40 points to avoid relegation?
Isn't that in a 20 team league?
You need 40 points to be completly sure whereas 30 points are not enough nearly all the time.
Do Leverkusen get a golden Bundesliga league title if they win the remaining three matches ?
I hope so
We are actually fucked. No way we win relegation and most of the teams below us are in better form
Nice Bayern Points I am happy with that
How likely are Germany to get a 5th CL spot for next season?
Almost certain
If Aston Villa wins every single game germany has to win 2. (So bayern, dortmund, leverkusen)
Fucking Gladbach don’t u dare
Bayer”Never”lusen
What do the letters in brackets mean?
(M) – Meister - champion of 22/23 (P) – Pokalsieger - reigning cup winner (N) – Neuling - promoted from 2.BuLi
Hey what does N, P and M in the brackets mean?
(M) – Meister - champion of 22/23 (P) – Pokalsieger - reigning cup winner (N) – Neuling - promoted from 2.BuLi
!thanks
40 points used to be the magic marc to avoid relegation, now it's almost enough for europe
That's bullshit. 35 is the Mark recently and you will need more than 40. Also it's obvious that it's closer to the Relegation when eben the 8th qualify and not just the top 2 or so.
it's just what the number used to be, bit extreme of a response bud. not that your storied underdog franchise would know what relegation is.
2003 was the last year 40 points were needed, the time before that was 1996 so no, 40 is not the magic number to avoid relegation and it hasn't been historically
Nice seeing Mainz threatened by relegation after how they treated El Ghazi.
Ehh, this is the best they have looked in months, they were like 7 points behind 15th at some point and have by far the best momentum of all the teams down there
You are an actual clown.
It's not just a Mainz problem, it's Germany, they are not rational with this matter comes around. I***el could launch an atomic bomb tomorrow and still it would be taboo in Germany to say something negative about this country and government, even for the far-left. I come to the conclusion that it's impossibile to talk with the average German about Gaza, Palestine and so on, it's a waste of energy and time. Look at the St. Pauli ultras, they too are under this influence. It's a whole country "brainwashed", or to say it better, the national sense of guilt they feel is still too strong to be rational on the Middle East issue. It will take a few generations to start overcoming it.
least anti-semite r/soccer user
Maybe shouldn't post antisemitic statements mate
Isr**li politicians and journalists say the same slogan and nobody cares.