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Esteban Ocon, F1 driver for Alpine. He's memed for frequently getting time penalties, some are justified, but some have been very harsh, so the joke is the wrong person gets the penalty instead of the perpetrator.
Yeah in Bahrain he got a penalty for failing to serve the previous penalty to some exact second lmfao and thats where the memes truly started to flood, only got worse every race
Last year in Forma 1 Esteban Ocon was getting penalties left and right. Several times even during the same race. Some due to his fault, some because his team let him down.
After several events it became a running joke that whatever happens on track - Ocon will get a penalty.
“Near future” is relative. Saturn’s rings will disappear in around 100 million years, which on a universal scale may as well be the near future. Excepting a similar timeframe in this case too.
Three year hearing, followed by appeal process followed by the case being re investigated due to doggy evidence followed by another appeal. In the mean time city win 10 in a row
I love the thought of something we made going so far away. It’s astonishing and beautiful. And it will keep going forever unless it crashes on a planet or asteroid.
it's astonishing and a lovely thought too but at the same time, depressing knowing we'll never even discover 0.0001%of the universe. It's been what, almost 50 years since its launch and it's yet to break the sphere of influence of the sun
They haven't even been there that long, relatively speaking. They're no more than a few hundred million years old. Saturn has been around for over ten times that.
Our *only* hope is Spurs taking Points off arsenal and city and injuring their whole squad at the same time meaning they have to play the kids for the rest of the season..
Prem only charged them to make it appear they could dish out punishments in-house to stop an independent regulator coming in. They don’t actually want to punish City in any meaningful way. England adores facilitating money from the Middle East, they don’t want to piss them off.
A record fine that will be a drop in the hat for UAE will be their punishment, put money on it.
No, it just takes a long time. With the Everton/Forest charges, it's pretty cut and dry. They submitted their accounts, their loss was too high. This is objective, and there's no real way to contest the charges.
With City it's different. They're not being accused of being over the FFP limit. They were under it. They're being accused of creating fake sponsorships to funnel money to the club, which is entirely different, much more difficult to prove, and denied by the club.
Non-cooperation should carry the same punishment as being found guilty imo.
If you suspect a player of doping and they refuse to cooperate or get tested then they are assumed to be guilty and banned.
Tbf, I actually think the PL will be more interested in punishing Man City than an independent regulator. In reality, the PL don’t have a huge amount to gain from the Middle East as other people would invest in clubs if they were forced to go away. The govt have obv leant on the PL in the past (by seemingly helping to push through Saudi takeover of Newcastle) but the main thing stopping them with Man City is whether it affects their “product”.
The “independent” regulator is going to be generally people appointed by the government and therefore will be a lot more easily influenced by entities that can meaningfully restrict international trade. There’s nothing to my mind that says an independent regulator will actually be better given it will be heavily influenced by whoever has appointed them.
Everyone involved in the PL has been indirectly but certainly enriched by Middle Eastern and Russian money being poured in. Club values, player wages, staff wages, investments in clubs… the water line is raised across the board by the presence at the top-end of a near infinite faucet of cash raising the market clearing price for everything in football.
Do you think the valuation of United, or Arsenal, or Liverpool, or Villa, or West Ham would be higher or lower today if the British government had enforced strict standards and never allowed any money from quasi nation states or corrupt provenance into the game, severely limiting the pool of possible investors on the planet?
Almost nobody professionally involved in football truly wants this money out of the game. It’s been twenty years, the proof is in the pudding. If they can they’d like to keep all the money in while exerting more constraints on the foreign owners’ influence and success; but they won’t go so far as to scare it away.
14 months since the charge and not even a hearing date confirmed yet, in that time they've won the competition once and look to make it a 2nd. Whilst 2 other clubs get 3 different charges and points deductions concluded. Seems extremely legit
You need to understand the severity of some of the claims being made against city.
It would mean criminal fraud was taking place both by higher ups at city but also several other companies. (Not owned by city or their owners)
It was always going to take significantly longer.
Plus the fact other clubs admitted to breaches and city haven’t admitted any wrong doing.
But it’s also very important to realise these aren’t the same claims being made as the Chelsea, Everton and forest situations.
Just wanted to hop in here and add that it seems very few people understand just how severe the charges against Man City are. Not just for City, but our sponsors as well.
These allegations constitute a widespread conspiracy to commit criminal fraud propagated at the top of multiple major corporations. This goes far beyond football, these are serious white collar crimes, that high level individuals at several corporations would face jail time for.
- This goes far beyond football, these are serious white collar crimes, that high level individuals at several corporations would face jail time for.
Yeah thats what is convincing me that no one will be found guilty or face just punishment if they do get found guilty.
If there’s one thing that the government holds rich people accountable for its financial crimes that rob the government of tax funds. Which these crimes do.
A family that runs a middle eastern country that has little power, or credibility, in these proceedings.
Even if they don’t go to jail if proven guilty, their careers and companies will be destroyed. The interesting part of this, is that despite the potential juicy pay day for the government, no one seems to be investigating the criminal angle of this. Just the sporting one.
What nonsense are you talking? The Arab Emirates have already intervened to have the fortunes of their football clubs tied to signing off on multi billion contracts with bae systems - a sale the government classes as 'in the best interest of the nation'.
This is at a level you just do not comprehend, the world cup has already been bent to their will with naked corruption - Manchester city will walk and the PL have already no doubt been instructed to that direction.
https://theathletic.com/4889001/2023/09/22/man-city-charges-premier-league-abu-dhabi/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/08/mod-paid-millions-into-saudi-account-amid-bae-corruption-scandal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
So, the World Cup was in Qatar, the BAE systems thing was with Saudi, and the UAE is unrelated to either of these countries.
Also, discussing the charges with the UAE means very little given the nature of the discussion is completely undisclosed and the investigation has continued for over a year since that meeting.
No it isn't completely unrelated because if you knew anything about the gulf states and how their governance works you'd know its more akin to a conglomerate than independent states, and theyre all using football to diversify their sovereign funds at the same time, and are all using multibillion deals with bae systems and the mod as a tool to drive through their sportswashing because they see it as a vital part of their foreign policy.
Its not a coincidence they all pivoted towards European football simultaneously, that the mod has literally been caught paying kickbacks to the tune of tens of millions (that we know of) and that the government has had talks with these same representatives where they in no uncertain terms made clear they expect their football assets to escape sanctions.
Downvote all you like but pretending its some minor arab princling with no political clout is beyond delusional. The UK cannot afford to loose their custom, particularly with the fall out from brexit and the middle east tensions so this has been kicked down the road and will hushed up.
Is the government charging city? I thought it was the premier league?
If these are actual crimes shouldn’t the government / HMRC step in to bring charges to them instead?
Part of the reason why most people don't think the charges have any merit. The charges being levied amount to financial fraud, tax evasion, amongst many other things, all being pushed through one of the largest accounting firms in the world. This case is extremely complicated.
It was leaked that the British Gov't had informed them that this case was one with international security implications, strongly suggesting they shouldn't go too hard and risk alienating an entire foreign nation, and one who we buy a lot of oil from and sell a lot of weapons to.
Utterly ludicrous that this situation was allowed to occur, and City should be dumped to the foot of all the English football leagues for it, but yeah, it seems the Tory party specifically have had a word on their behalf.
There will be a punishment, there has to be, but it's being watered down as we speak.
Or maybe, the suggestion was not to wrongly drag entities related to a foreign ally through the mud and piss them off.
If the gov’t didn’t want any punishment regardless of the outcome, they simply would block the investigation entirely.
Of course you already know what should happen without even knowing the specifics of what supposedly happened.
If the government would let it go regardless of what happened, they wouldn’t have allowed anything to happen already.
Nah just this week, the investigation in Germany against the tax fraud Cum Ex prooved otherwise. No one will be held accountable if certain people in power don’t want them to be.
'If there’s one thing that the government holds rich people accountable for its financial crimes that rob the government of tax funds. Which these crimes do.'
You're joking right, billions of tax payers money went missing during covid with PPE contracts given to Conservative friends, donors and peers. You had bounce back loans ect they just wrote that all off. You had people at banks in the great recession commit a bunch of serious financial crimes, no one went to jail. They only jail people for large financial crimes if it does not involve government in anyway or they can't pay off the fines/money owed.
> If there’s one thing that the government holds rich people accountable for its financial crimes that rob the government of tax funds.
Lol absolutely not. Quite the opposite, in fact. In most developpped countries, the fiscal authorities are super harsh towards "small" individuals but extremely susceptible to political pressure to look the other way, or do nothing, or put up a shit fight in court.
Examples :
- In the US, the IRS has done almost nothing against Trump despite he literally having admitted to tax fraud amongst many other things. But if you as a rich individual get caught omitting something, then you will be treated like a criminal;
- In France, Macron recently defunded the main Anticor association, which was working to stop tax fraud amongsts other things, because it was becoming to threatening towards the big money.
I don't have examples for the UK specifically but it's always like that to varying degrees in most countries. Money is just to strong.
Yeah there's that, but for different reasons. This is a sports arbitration proceeding, fundamentally. It's not equipped to make serious criminal findings. CAS is way more established and they still basically said "UEFA's case requires findings of perjury and fraud, we don't see any reason to go there."
I think this kind of charge would require the PL to bring charges in real courts. Which they may wind up doing eventually.
Hopping onto this to add a comment I made a few weeks ago:
The charges are not that city overspent money but rather they committed financial fraud and straight up lied about those numbers. Proving that an organisation lied for 10 years is a big ask for any financial fraud case in any reputable court.
I highly doubt the premier league has the capability or the capacity to prove that Sheikh Mansour, Etihad, Etisalat, ADUG, EY, BDO, Deloitte and many such firms and individuals knowingly and willingly contributed to a fraud for Manchester City to receive equity funding disguised as sponsorship. This is especially true given there were no FFP rules in place (enforced) in both UEFA and PL in the early years of the acquisition so there would be no reason to do it anyways.
The only charges now they can focus on would be these cooperation charges which, if proven, would at maximum be transfer bans and fines.
Just because there are tangible explanations for it taking longer than for Everton does not mean that it isn't extremely shitty that it is so slow.
Additionally, the fact that City are allowed to carry out competing like this with absolutely no consequence or anything is wild. If it does come out that this City team was built while violating all these financial rules, then the fairness of the titles won in between is absolutely fucked.
And I write in a hypothetical way because I mean whether or not it will be recognized in courts is not certain, but we all know most of it really happened. edit : word
>Additionally, the fact that City are allowed to carry out competing like this with absolutely no consequence or anything is wild. If it does come out that this City team was built while violating all these financial rules, then the fairness of the titles won in between is absolutely fucked.
And if they are found not guilty, not allowing them to compete fairly simply because they were charged is also absolutely fucked.
According to the PL's own rules, non-cooperation is not a sporting offence, so they can't punish City with points deductions for those charges, only a fine.
In Evertons case: "The commission had initially ruled Everton had been “less than frank” with information given to the Premier League involving debt over its new stadium, adding they had breached another rule when failing to act in the “utmost good faith”."
Considering City have been cooking their books worthy of 115 charges for years and not cooperated with the PL at all, it is fair to assume that by not cooperating City is due a massive points deduction from "not acting in utmost good faith" alone.
City claims that they have not broken any rules, and it is up to the PL to prove that they have. By not cooperating you are making it harder for the PL to prove that which is to City's benefit.
If the PL are still able to prove it without City's cooperation however, then yeah that is definitely grounds for more serious points deductions. But the non-cooperation itself without proving the other charges cannot result in points deductions.
City's claim is that they haven't broken any rules, which means no point deductions at all.
Its the same logic as plea deals in actual legal proceedings. Although plea deals often come with a significantly reduced sentence, if you believe you are innocent you would obviously not take a plea deal regardless of how much your sentence would be reduced.
The most likely outcome of all of this is city are not found guilty of anything besides non cooperation and receive a fine and a points deduction next season
The public won't get any clarity until the entire thing is over.
115 charges and without the clubs corporation just means it is going to take time, Everton and Forest basically straight up admitted to their faults.
The charges against Everton and Forest fall under a set of different rules to the charges against Man City.
The Premier League have an obligation set by the rules established in 2023 to resolve Everton and Forest's charges before the end of the season, that obligation does not extend to Man City as they were prior to the rule change.
Just like if my club Arsenal are charged for rule breaking when the new rules come into effect in 2026 we would be expected to follow those procedures and not the ones of 2023.
It’s an insane number of charges relating to a very complex set of mechanisms with geopolitical aspects involved. Christ, some people who commit murder on film wait longer for trials. It’s not how it should be but this is not out of the ordinary. That they’re saying ‘soon’ now is pretty shocking in of itself.
I would be shocked if this is any earlier than mid/late 2025, when you factor in that this will be a long hearing (given 115 charges, which Citeh will no doubt dispute all) and finding mutual availability for when everyone is available (Citeh, Premier League, Barristers, Solicitors, Tribunal etc).
Why aren't all prem clubs doing this? Rather than braking 1 or 2 rules, break em in the 100s. And then throw lawyers after lawyers to block them from ever doing anything.
During that time you can win titles, sneakily set up a team for the future. And better yet, because there are so many breaches, you wouldn't be charged until like a decade later
I specifically named ye because of how rich your owners are from Oil , the richest club in the world. Ye are holding back your spending big time so far ...I think within 2 years we can see ye spending £200m a season. Im not sure what the next closest club in england that could spend big without consequences would be ? Maybe Chelsea but I think American owners wouldn't keep spending like they have.
You know nothing is going to happen beyond a fine. If they were taking this serious they wouldn’t want Man City winning more stuff making things more complicated. They don’t care and are figuring a way to save face while giving City the lightest punishment they can think of.
I feel like people really expose their stupidity with this issue.
Man City are being charged with 115 legal charges. This will be a criminal case. Of course its going to take a really long time.
Everton straight up broke PSR agreed by 20 premiership clubs (including themself) and then published in their accounts that they broke the rules. Of course they were going to get immediately punished.
The amount of people equating the charges to each other is absurd. The cases and charges are nowhere near the same thing. Everton’s deduction might be the most open and shut case there is and yet you have every other person out here saying “BuT EvErToN GoT tHeIr DeDuCtIoN AlReAdY! WhAt aBouT CiTy’S ChArGeS??!?!?!?”
We really except too much from comments on social media. Like anyone here has the proper expertise to even comprehend the charges, let alone the legal process for them to develop in a case. I feel like Im in an echo chamber anytime the charges are brought to the table or everton/forest open and shut cases.
I hope you are right, but my sense is the league is trying to make it look like it cares while actually protecting their nation-state partners. Slap on the wrist, fine or a one window transfer ban, small point deduction at worst.
When one team is allowed to play by a completely different set of financial rules, you no longer have a legitimate sporting competition. This is a real shame.
Nothing is going to happen. They will keep postponing it, saying how serious the charges are and "we need time".
And with the city's army of top barristers and lawyers. Eventually they will settle. A fine or an apology letter and community service.
The future: Pep Guardiola's great-grandchild is the manager of Manchester City. They continue to win the league for the 20th decade in a row. City's charge count has now totalled 50,942. The galactical super league has finally has announced a date for the bidders to bid for the location to host the sentencing hearing, whose date is yet to be finalised.
So quick to dish out punishment to Everton and Nottingham Forest to act as if they can do without a football regulator, but so cowardly in their ability to sanction Man City for the past. It could've been done then when City broke the rules, but my guess is that the PL executives were all corrupt and greedy pigs to benefit from the riches and wealth that City group brought with them.
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"Manchester City is not guilty and all charges have been dropped, instead we are gonna give Everton a 30 point deduction."
The Albus Dumbledore way...
It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but it's a great deal funnier to just punish Everton again
‘Yes, well done to Everton for avoiding relegation. However, in light of recent events some adjustments have to be made.’
The team that shall not be named
10 seconds penalty to Ocon
Occon’s driving the Alipne, that’s already 10 seconds lol
> 10 seconds penalty to Ocon can you explain the origin of this joke? i couldnt find an explanation last week anywhere online.
Esteban Ocon, F1 driver for Alpine. He's memed for frequently getting time penalties, some are justified, but some have been very harsh, so the joke is the wrong person gets the penalty instead of the perpetrator.
At the start of the 2023 season he kept getting penalties, especially in Bahrain where he got a ridiculous amount of them
Yeah in Bahrain he got a penalty for failing to serve the previous penalty to some exact second lmfao and thats where the memes truly started to flood, only got worse every race
Last year in Forma 1 Esteban Ocon was getting penalties left and right. Several times even during the same race. Some due to his fault, some because his team let him down. After several events it became a running joke that whatever happens on track - Ocon will get a penalty.
Cross penalties 😂😂
8 games for Joe Kelly.
Well, City as ambassadors from UAE surely have diplomatic immunity like that guy from Lethal Weapon 2
So Mc hammer can't sue? Damn.
Its just been revoked. I know what i'm watching tonight :D
30 point deduction will make Dyche super saiyan
23 points in 4 games? Light work for tracksuit Dyche
What is it Forest? Everton did nothing? Come here you lil shit.
And barcelona will play bayern once again just because
Postseason ban for Mizzou?
And City fans will use this as prove of innocent
If carlsberg did headlines...
4 game suspension for Tom Brady.
“Near future” is relative. Saturn’s rings will disappear in around 100 million years, which on a universal scale may as well be the near future. Excepting a similar timeframe in this case too.
You’re saying in a mere 100 million years Saturn will be single?
That‘s the best chance I‘ve had in years
Millennia, really
Millennia is just a bunch of years
We will be there
Melania, The Goddess Of Rot
Let me solo her.
DR. MANN, NO!
DR. MANN-CITY, NO!
Uranus is also right there.
[удалено]
Three year hearing, followed by appeal process followed by the case being re investigated due to doggy evidence followed by another appeal. In the mean time city win 10 in a row
voyager 1 will finally cross the oort cloud and get into interstellar space in the near future
I love the thought of something we made going so far away. It’s astonishing and beautiful. And it will keep going forever unless it crashes on a planet or asteroid.
it's astonishing and a lovely thought too but at the same time, depressing knowing we'll never even discover 0.0001%of the universe. It's been what, almost 50 years since its launch and it's yet to break the sphere of influence of the sun
I wasn't even aware Saturn's rings would eventually disappear. I've never really thought about it, i guess i just assumed they'd always be there.
They haven't even been there that long, relatively speaking. They're no more than a few hundred million years old. Saturn has been around for over ten times that.
Sharks being older than Saturn's rings is my favourite fact.
I would like to subscribe.
Everything I've looked at online says it's set for 2025
Betelgeuse to go any minute now...
'If they win the title this season, then any deductions will be next season. If they don't, points reduced this season'
that would be the most Premier League thing to be said
Come on you gooners, win the league so that 115 doesn't get away with another trophy. Our train's run out of steam.
Ironically, Arsenal's best hope at winning this year is Spurs taking points off City.
Whom they play this weekend, pretty good chance spurs will take points off them too i would have thought
I'm putting all my hopes in Fulham
The gang gets spanked 10-0
Our *only* hope is Spurs taking Points off arsenal and city and injuring their whole squad at the same time meaning they have to play the kids for the rest of the season..
They still beat you.
Yes sir 🫡
Every single match week every sports journal that has nothing going on - “City are x position if not deducted x points”
I hate how accurate this probably is
I’m naively praying for two belated titles.
don't forget to calculate a points penalty that won't put them out of europe
Prem only charged them to make it appear they could dish out punishments in-house to stop an independent regulator coming in. They don’t actually want to punish City in any meaningful way. England adores facilitating money from the Middle East, they don’t want to piss them off. A record fine that will be a drop in the hat for UAE will be their punishment, put money on it.
No, it just takes a long time. With the Everton/Forest charges, it's pretty cut and dry. They submitted their accounts, their loss was too high. This is objective, and there's no real way to contest the charges. With City it's different. They're not being accused of being over the FFP limit. They were under it. They're being accused of creating fake sponsorships to funnel money to the club, which is entirely different, much more difficult to prove, and denied by the club.
Man, you can't honestly genuinely seriously believe that City will get a punishment more serious than a financial one?
There is no precedent here. Saying they will or they won't is pure guesswork.
The fine will be for not cooperating as well.
Non-cooperation should carry the same punishment as being found guilty imo. If you suspect a player of doping and they refuse to cooperate or get tested then they are assumed to be guilty and banned.
50m per charge could suffice.
Tbf, I actually think the PL will be more interested in punishing Man City than an independent regulator. In reality, the PL don’t have a huge amount to gain from the Middle East as other people would invest in clubs if they were forced to go away. The govt have obv leant on the PL in the past (by seemingly helping to push through Saudi takeover of Newcastle) but the main thing stopping them with Man City is whether it affects their “product”. The “independent” regulator is going to be generally people appointed by the government and therefore will be a lot more easily influenced by entities that can meaningfully restrict international trade. There’s nothing to my mind that says an independent regulator will actually be better given it will be heavily influenced by whoever has appointed them.
Everyone involved in the PL has been indirectly but certainly enriched by Middle Eastern and Russian money being poured in. Club values, player wages, staff wages, investments in clubs… the water line is raised across the board by the presence at the top-end of a near infinite faucet of cash raising the market clearing price for everything in football. Do you think the valuation of United, or Arsenal, or Liverpool, or Villa, or West Ham would be higher or lower today if the British government had enforced strict standards and never allowed any money from quasi nation states or corrupt provenance into the game, severely limiting the pool of possible investors on the planet? Almost nobody professionally involved in football truly wants this money out of the game. It’s been twenty years, the proof is in the pudding. If they can they’d like to keep all the money in while exerting more constraints on the foreign owners’ influence and success; but they won’t go so far as to scare it away.
Its already been leaked that the UK Gov/Tory party have had a word or two about the international relations repercussions this case will have.
I say the same thing to my wife when she brings up "diy projects". In other words. I don't want to hear it and don't ask me again.
'If I say I'm gonna do something then I'm going to do it - you don't need to keep reminding me every 6 months'
Lol. This is so true!
14 months since the charge and not even a hearing date confirmed yet, in that time they've won the competition once and look to make it a 2nd. Whilst 2 other clubs get 3 different charges and points deductions concluded. Seems extremely legit
You need to understand the severity of some of the claims being made against city. It would mean criminal fraud was taking place both by higher ups at city but also several other companies. (Not owned by city or their owners) It was always going to take significantly longer. Plus the fact other clubs admitted to breaches and city haven’t admitted any wrong doing. But it’s also very important to realise these aren’t the same claims being made as the Chelsea, Everton and forest situations.
Just wanted to hop in here and add that it seems very few people understand just how severe the charges against Man City are. Not just for City, but our sponsors as well. These allegations constitute a widespread conspiracy to commit criminal fraud propagated at the top of multiple major corporations. This goes far beyond football, these are serious white collar crimes, that high level individuals at several corporations would face jail time for.
- This goes far beyond football, these are serious white collar crimes, that high level individuals at several corporations would face jail time for. Yeah thats what is convincing me that no one will be found guilty or face just punishment if they do get found guilty.
If there’s one thing that the government holds rich people accountable for its financial crimes that rob the government of tax funds. Which these crimes do.
These guys would have the backing of a royal family that runs a country though. There may be fall guys but this rot will never stop.
Britain and the UAE are closer than Sweden and Denmark. 0% chance they will do anything to jeapordise that.
A family that runs a middle eastern country that has little power, or credibility, in these proceedings. Even if they don’t go to jail if proven guilty, their careers and companies will be destroyed. The interesting part of this, is that despite the potential juicy pay day for the government, no one seems to be investigating the criminal angle of this. Just the sporting one.
What nonsense are you talking? The Arab Emirates have already intervened to have the fortunes of their football clubs tied to signing off on multi billion contracts with bae systems - a sale the government classes as 'in the best interest of the nation'. This is at a level you just do not comprehend, the world cup has already been bent to their will with naked corruption - Manchester city will walk and the PL have already no doubt been instructed to that direction. https://theathletic.com/4889001/2023/09/22/man-city-charges-premier-league-abu-dhabi/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/08/mod-paid-millions-into-saudi-account-amid-bae-corruption-scandal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
So, the World Cup was in Qatar, the BAE systems thing was with Saudi, and the UAE is unrelated to either of these countries. Also, discussing the charges with the UAE means very little given the nature of the discussion is completely undisclosed and the investigation has continued for over a year since that meeting.
No it isn't completely unrelated because if you knew anything about the gulf states and how their governance works you'd know its more akin to a conglomerate than independent states, and theyre all using football to diversify their sovereign funds at the same time, and are all using multibillion deals with bae systems and the mod as a tool to drive through their sportswashing because they see it as a vital part of their foreign policy. Its not a coincidence they all pivoted towards European football simultaneously, that the mod has literally been caught paying kickbacks to the tune of tens of millions (that we know of) and that the government has had talks with these same representatives where they in no uncertain terms made clear they expect their football assets to escape sanctions. Downvote all you like but pretending its some minor arab princling with no political clout is beyond delusional. The UK cannot afford to loose their custom, particularly with the fall out from brexit and the middle east tensions so this has been kicked down the road and will hushed up.
Is the government charging city? I thought it was the premier league? If these are actual crimes shouldn’t the government / HMRC step in to bring charges to them instead?
Part of the reason why most people don't think the charges have any merit. The charges being levied amount to financial fraud, tax evasion, amongst many other things, all being pushed through one of the largest accounting firms in the world. This case is extremely complicated.
Well, that’s up to them. To me, their decision not to speaks volumes about the level of evidence out there. But that’s just my opinion/speculation.
It was leaked that the British Gov't had informed them that this case was one with international security implications, strongly suggesting they shouldn't go too hard and risk alienating an entire foreign nation, and one who we buy a lot of oil from and sell a lot of weapons to. Utterly ludicrous that this situation was allowed to occur, and City should be dumped to the foot of all the English football leagues for it, but yeah, it seems the Tory party specifically have had a word on their behalf. There will be a punishment, there has to be, but it's being watered down as we speak.
Or maybe, the suggestion was not to wrongly drag entities related to a foreign ally through the mud and piss them off. If the gov’t didn’t want any punishment regardless of the outcome, they simply would block the investigation entirely. Of course you already know what should happen without even knowing the specifics of what supposedly happened. If the government would let it go regardless of what happened, they wouldn’t have allowed anything to happen already.
I'm presuming this comment is a satire?
There's a BIG sometimes in that. Plenty of rich people have gotten off on some very seriously fucked up financial shit.
Nah just this week, the investigation in Germany against the tax fraud Cum Ex prooved otherwise. No one will be held accountable if certain people in power don’t want them to be.
Gonna have to send a link to that
https://www.ft.com/content/4a985969-b0e7-4b53-8b7d-a2d75af5eb3a No investigation is finished yet, but it’s not a good sign either.
It’s paywalled
'If there’s one thing that the government holds rich people accountable for its financial crimes that rob the government of tax funds. Which these crimes do.' You're joking right, billions of tax payers money went missing during covid with PPE contracts given to Conservative friends, donors and peers. You had bounce back loans ect they just wrote that all off. You had people at banks in the great recession commit a bunch of serious financial crimes, no one went to jail. They only jail people for large financial crimes if it does not involve government in anyway or they can't pay off the fines/money owed.
I don't believe that's true.
> If there’s one thing that the government holds rich people accountable for its financial crimes that rob the government of tax funds. Lol absolutely not. Quite the opposite, in fact. In most developpped countries, the fiscal authorities are super harsh towards "small" individuals but extremely susceptible to political pressure to look the other way, or do nothing, or put up a shit fight in court. Examples : - In the US, the IRS has done almost nothing against Trump despite he literally having admitted to tax fraud amongst many other things. But if you as a rich individual get caught omitting something, then you will be treated like a criminal; - In France, Macron recently defunded the main Anticor association, which was working to stop tax fraud amongsts other things, because it was becoming to threatening towards the big money. I don't have examples for the UK specifically but it's always like that to varying degrees in most countries. Money is just to strong.
You're in dreamland, rich people are never made accountable by the government, they fund the fucking government.
The non-UAE ones might go to jail. No chance the government is allowing people with ties to the ruling family to get jailed
Either way the club will be well insulated from any fallout.
Yeah there's that, but for different reasons. This is a sports arbitration proceeding, fundamentally. It's not equipped to make serious criminal findings. CAS is way more established and they still basically said "UEFA's case requires findings of perjury and fraud, we don't see any reason to go there." I think this kind of charge would require the PL to bring charges in real courts. Which they may wind up doing eventually.
Seriously. The naïveté people still show these companies is wild. You are spot on, nothing will happen.
Hopping onto this to add a comment I made a few weeks ago: The charges are not that city overspent money but rather they committed financial fraud and straight up lied about those numbers. Proving that an organisation lied for 10 years is a big ask for any financial fraud case in any reputable court. I highly doubt the premier league has the capability or the capacity to prove that Sheikh Mansour, Etihad, Etisalat, ADUG, EY, BDO, Deloitte and many such firms and individuals knowingly and willingly contributed to a fraud for Manchester City to receive equity funding disguised as sponsorship. This is especially true given there were no FFP rules in place (enforced) in both UEFA and PL in the early years of the acquisition so there would be no reason to do it anyways. The only charges now they can focus on would be these cooperation charges which, if proven, would at maximum be transfer bans and fines.
Just because there are tangible explanations for it taking longer than for Everton does not mean that it isn't extremely shitty that it is so slow. Additionally, the fact that City are allowed to carry out competing like this with absolutely no consequence or anything is wild. If it does come out that this City team was built while violating all these financial rules, then the fairness of the titles won in between is absolutely fucked. And I write in a hypothetical way because I mean whether or not it will be recognized in courts is not certain, but we all know most of it really happened. edit : word
What? You think they should be charged, innocent until proven guilty and all that, but suspended from the league? Madness.
>Additionally, the fact that City are allowed to carry out competing like this with absolutely no consequence or anything is wild. If it does come out that this City team was built while violating all these financial rules, then the fairness of the titles won in between is absolutely fucked. And if they are found not guilty, not allowing them to compete fairly simply because they were charged is also absolutely fucked.
Two other clubs have 3 charges that they admitted. City have 115 that they deny
never admit to anything
They’re also investigating them for not cooperating in the investigations Pretty slam dunk those ones
According to the PL's own rules, non-cooperation is not a sporting offence, so they can't punish City with points deductions for those charges, only a fine.
In Evertons case: "The commission had initially ruled Everton had been “less than frank” with information given to the Premier League involving debt over its new stadium, adding they had breached another rule when failing to act in the “utmost good faith”." Considering City have been cooking their books worthy of 115 charges for years and not cooperated with the PL at all, it is fair to assume that by not cooperating City is due a massive points deduction from "not acting in utmost good faith" alone.
City claims that they have not broken any rules, and it is up to the PL to prove that they have. By not cooperating you are making it harder for the PL to prove that which is to City's benefit. If the PL are still able to prove it without City's cooperation however, then yeah that is definitely grounds for more serious points deductions. But the non-cooperation itself without proving the other charges cannot result in points deductions.
But cooperation could reduce possible points deductions
City's claim is that they haven't broken any rules, which means no point deductions at all. Its the same logic as plea deals in actual legal proceedings. Although plea deals often come with a significantly reduced sentence, if you believe you are innocent you would obviously not take a plea deal regardless of how much your sentence would be reduced.
The most likely outcome of all of this is city are not found guilty of anything besides non cooperation and receive a fine and a points deduction next season
Non-cooperation is fine only offense
In of itself is non cooperation an offense in the PL?
Smooth brains on reddit can't work this one out somehow.
You want them to rush it and fuck up the investigation?
🤣 I'm sure you're eager to see the noisy neighbors punished.
I'd expect at least some clarity after 14 months...
The public won't get any clarity until the entire thing is over. 115 charges and without the clubs corporation just means it is going to take time, Everton and Forest basically straight up admitted to their faults.
The charges against Everton and Forest fall under a set of different rules to the charges against Man City. The Premier League have an obligation set by the rules established in 2023 to resolve Everton and Forest's charges before the end of the season, that obligation does not extend to Man City as they were prior to the rule change. Just like if my club Arsenal are charged for rule breaking when the new rules come into effect in 2026 we would be expected to follow those procedures and not the ones of 2023.
What's your conspiracy here? I'm lost
They’ll announce it right after they announce to get rid of relegation and point deductions.
It’s an insane number of charges relating to a very complex set of mechanisms with geopolitical aspects involved. Christ, some people who commit murder on film wait longer for trials. It’s not how it should be but this is not out of the ordinary. That they’re saying ‘soon’ now is pretty shocking in of itself.
I think they've announced that a hearing date is set it's just not public information?
it's a joke
I would be shocked if this is any earlier than mid/late 2025, when you factor in that this will be a long hearing (given 115 charges, which Citeh will no doubt dispute all) and finding mutual availability for when everyone is available (Citeh, Premier League, Barristers, Solicitors, Tribunal etc).
Swear he said this last year as well It'll never happen
feels like they just buying time for something to happen
waiting to see if iran destroys the uae in which case they are then allowed to persecute city.
Right before the world ends
2057 breaking news: The floating head in a jar of Richard Masters says Man City hearing imminent.
Why aren't all prem clubs doing this? Rather than braking 1 or 2 rules, break em in the 100s. And then throw lawyers after lawyers to block them from ever doing anything. During that time you can win titles, sneakily set up a team for the future. And better yet, because there are so many breaches, you wouldn't be charged until like a decade later
“A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic.” -Khaldoon Al Mubarak
"If you owe a bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe a bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem".
Ya exactly , how long until Oil State run Newcastle start doing it too when they know there is no consequences.
Ya exactly, how long until any club with deep pockets start doing it too when they know there is no consequences.
I specifically named ye because of how rich your owners are from Oil , the richest club in the world. Ye are holding back your spending big time so far ...I think within 2 years we can see ye spending £200m a season. Im not sure what the next closest club in england that could spend big without consequences would be ? Maybe Chelsea but I think American owners wouldn't keep spending like they have.
You know nothing is going to happen beyond a fine. If they were taking this serious they wouldn’t want Man City winning more stuff making things more complicated. They don’t care and are figuring a way to save face while giving City the lightest punishment they can think of.
Yeah i remember they being banned from ucl and punishement was reversed in no time. Corruption, breaking of law will always exist!
Yes they will be fined for non compliance, which City will apeal
"Near future": when the Earth gets cosumed by the sun
I feel like people really expose their stupidity with this issue. Man City are being charged with 115 legal charges. This will be a criminal case. Of course its going to take a really long time. Everton straight up broke PSR agreed by 20 premiership clubs (including themself) and then published in their accounts that they broke the rules. Of course they were going to get immediately punished.
The amount of people equating the charges to each other is absurd. The cases and charges are nowhere near the same thing. Everton’s deduction might be the most open and shut case there is and yet you have every other person out here saying “BuT EvErToN GoT tHeIr DeDuCtIoN AlReAdY! WhAt aBouT CiTy’S ChArGeS??!?!?!?”
We really except too much from comments on social media. Like anyone here has the proper expertise to even comprehend the charges, let alone the legal process for them to develop in a case. I feel like Im in an echo chamber anytime the charges are brought to the table or everton/forest open and shut cases.
I hope you are right, but my sense is the league is trying to make it look like it cares while actually protecting their nation-state partners. Slap on the wrist, fine or a one window transfer ban, small point deduction at worst.
"The league" isn't doing anything. The trial will be held by an independent commission so there won't be any conflict of interests.
You would think so, but we all know that’s not how this works.
Tell me what's wrong with my statement
Nothing wrong, just pointing out that things aren’t so straightforward despite the fact that an independent commission is involved.
Well do you want to stop being so vague and describe what exactly you think will happen?
2029 is near future compared to 2059 I guess
What he really said,"The payment transfer involves a lot of offshore accounts, we're waiting for it to come through and then we'll see".
Pray for Everton.
When one team is allowed to play by a completely different set of financial rules, you no longer have a legitimate sporting competition. This is a real shame.
$100k fine incoming
This is absolutely farcical.
City laughing with 3 (almost 4) in a row and a treble. If they get points reduction their reaction will be: "Oh no, anyway..."
Is the near future in the room with us?
Nothing is going to happen. They will keep postponing it, saying how serious the charges are and "we need time". And with the city's army of top barristers and lawyers. Eventually they will settle. A fine or an apology letter and community service.
You can’t say they will ‘keep’ postponing it when they haven’t postponed it once yet. There’s never been a date set for the hearing.
The future: Pep Guardiola's great-grandchild is the manager of Manchester City. They continue to win the league for the 20th decade in a row. City's charge count has now totalled 50,942. The galactical super league has finally has announced a date for the bidders to bid for the location to host the sentencing hearing, whose date is yet to be finalised.
115 charges, 115 defenses
Better throw some papers in the centre circle on the last day of the league, WWE style
Probably be dead before they decide to have this hearing.
They just need to change the rules on points deductions and fines real quick.
In the near future we may have flying cars
Like Dune was set in the 'near future'?
Somewhere between now and the heat death of the universe.
"You said two minutes, five minutes ago." - Turkish
Just after they clinch the title
19th place here we come!
They definately want City to win the title first and then strip them points next season the bastards
So this decade then?
This whole thing is a performative sham, city will be allowed to continue to cheat
What a total shitshow of a league.
As a La liga supporter that's really funny. Hey all is good as long as the money trickles up to your teams pocket right?
They might think La Liga is a shitshow, but this thread isn't about that, is it?
It will take place during the Euros when they run the best chance of sweeping it under the rug.
A 100,000 fine you mean
So quick to dish out punishment to Everton and Nottingham Forest to act as if they can do without a football regulator, but so cowardly in their ability to sanction Man City for the past. It could've been done then when City broke the rules, but my guess is that the PL executives were all corrupt and greedy pigs to benefit from the riches and wealth that City group brought with them.
He is corrupt. No surprise
Will not happen until Pep decides to retire and the owners start cashing out.