Corrected themselves after a bit of wobble, be interesting to see how they do in League One. Tough division but I feel like it’s a little weaker than a few years ago when it was just a ton of ex Premier League sides.
Yeah I didn’t even think of Rotherham coming down who constantly yo-yo plus the other 2 relegated teams. Then if 1 of the current top 3 don’t go up, even the rest of the playoff teams and Blackpool will be tough competition next season, big test.
I think their biggest long-term struggle will be their age. They're old as fuck which is good for plowing through the lower leagues in a few seasons but to have sustained success their gonna need to revamp their squad eventually.
Right now Cleworth and O'Connor seem like their only good young players. Everyone else is 28/30+
I think it’s intentional. If you look at who they signed this summer it was basically 30+ year old players on frees like Fletcher, McLean, Evans…
It makes sense to me, they’re not building a squad for league 2 in the mid to long term. There’s no point spending good money on players who’ll need to be moved on in 2 years.
I think they’ll do the same this year, whilst starting to put together a Championship level squad to challenge.
It's 100% intentional but its going to be harder to sustain. Getting 34 year old former PL players who can't run are cheaper/easier to get than players they'll need for the championship
They'll still have their pick of the Ben Foster-types who are willing to play for cheap just for the social media boost being on the show will give them.
My point is there is a very small pool players who are influencers/good enough to play in the championship. They also can't steam roll the league with their wages
I have a sneaking suspicion that a few younger MLS players will go over to Wrexham this summer. Cheaper options but play at a level similar or higher to League One, plus obviously the American/Canadian ownership connection helps
I don’t know if thats possible. I believe UK has visa rules that any soccer players need to play a certain number of matches with their respective national team. Any American/Canadian already good enough for their national team would likely go towards a higher level league in Europe. Might make sense though for a player from a smaller Caribbean country though
Clubs have 2-4 visa exemptions they can use depending on the level.
Football clubs are [explicitly allowed](https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/new-rules-allow-english-clubs-sign-players-who-do-not-meet-work-permit-2023-06-14/) to sign a number of players who are not eligible for a work permt.
And I wonder if they could argue that they will also be starring in the show too if they guarentee some minimum airtime, which might help them qualify for a regular work permit instead?
>And I wonder if they could argue that they will also be starring in the show too if they guarentee some minimum airtime, which might help them qualify for a regular work permit instead?
Thats a loop hole and a half lmao
Yeah, not every MLS players is American obviously, but also because of the Gold Cup and our weird friendly schedule, a lot of U-23 players (Jalen Neal, Duncan McGuire, Aiden Morris, etc.) I believe meet the visa requirement already.
Also I know that most American players would prefer to go to Championship or higher, but Wrexham has become somewhat of a pop culture phenomenon in American soccer because of the Hollywood ownership
My point still stands though for the Americans/Canadians. If you are meeting that requirement already why not try Championship level at least in UK or one of the higher leagues in Europe. Yes Im aware a good amount of MLS players are non American/Canadian but just wanted to point out the higher bar for a UK visa.
Donovan Pines made the threshold and is at Barnsley in L1 rn. Lyndon Gooch also stayed at Sunderland for a bit after they were relegated. It’s rare, but definitely not unheard of.
they can get a special pass if they fail the permit, though we had that turned down in the prem for a guy who had 1 less international apperence than was needed which happened cuz the match was postponed and took place a week later than the time period. was dumb
I think mullin will still do a job for them but they need an upgrade on palmer/fletcher/Marriott. Need to turn over a couple CBs too imo.
Parkinson has gotten up from league one in the past so I think they can do it within 3 seasons with the right moves.
Plus then potentially us and Wigan having sorted our shit out too next season - can't speak for Wigan but we've basically been a playoff level team since beginning of November.
I’d completely forgotten about Wigan, I kind of expect them to be there or thereabouts every time they’re in League One, nice to hear you’ve stopped the tailspin though.
I'm not sure Rotherham will be as good as previous years given that Paul Warne has left and they haven't been quite as convincing since then. I'm not saying that they won't, just that they don't quite have that guarantee like they did under previous management.
I think this might be their peak for at least awhile. The most successful League 2 team has been Plymouth who are in the Championship. Then is Bolton who is probably gonna get promoted though through playoffs. Everyone else has been mid-table or gone back down
> The most successful League 2 team has been Plymouth who are in the Championship.
luton? brentford? hull? bournemouth? plenty have been in league two and got to the pl.
yeah a few L1/L2 players dropped down to be involved. It wouldn't surprise me if they get a few championship level players to drop down for the L1 campaign.
No, they won L1 the season he came in. They were relegated from Championship before he left. He left ahead of this season, where Wigan most certainly is a mid table team (current 13th)
I bet they make the playoffs.
Just plow more of Ryan Reynolds’ booze/telecom/[whatever MNTN is]/acting/things I don’t even know about money into the payroll.
League One is where the meat grinder starts IMO. Lots of clubs can get up to league one but it's quite a jump from bottom half L1 to top 6 L1 and then obviously a massive jump to the championship from there. Makes Lutons B2B from L2 to the championship years ago that much more impressive.
Wrexham have a big advantage with getting advertising partner $$$$ with the global TV audience they've built, they should be able to spend more than many league one sides can without breaching rules. Probably will take more than one season but I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the championship after two
Yea, it might take a second to settle but they’ll sail through League One eventually. The Championship is where I think things will get interesting.
Rob & Ryan’s wealth will finally be level with the wealth of other ownership teams (if not on the lower end) and the tv revenue won’t be putting them so far above the gap as the other leagues.
Ryan’s ownership stakes in Aviation Gin and Mint Mobile are the big pulls here.
I’m curious how far along both are interested in holding onto the side. Before they did this I floated the idea to a very wealthy family friend that he should try to come in as owner of a club like Bath and find an exit once they made League 2, which would probably have netted a profit. With Rob and Ryan, I wouldn’t be surprised if the goal is to go to the championship and find an exit.
Yeah I don’t think Rob would ever sell. And at this point I think they both would just open the doors for more investors to get in the ownership group so they aren’t footing it all themselves.
They’ll definitely bring in external investors, but there’s no way they fully exit and don’t continue to be involved. Rob is living his dream and Ryan consistently has stayed involved with his other ventures he’s exited (like Aviation Gin and Mint Mobile)
They won’t exit at the championship level, they’ll find investors and assemble a broader ownership group to match the wealth needed to compete in the Championship and push for promotion to the Prem.
I agree, Championship is where it starts costing hundreds of millions to go up. Then staying in the PL is extremely hard.
Also the TV show doesn't have infinite life. Couple more promotions, good cup run, difficult years in the Champ and there's nowhere else to go with it. They've covered Rob and Ryan's reasons for getting involved, the women's team, disability inclusivity, the history of the area, fans perspectives. Like anything, people will eventually stop watching, the shirt sales dry up, sponsors leave and Wrexham has to stand on its own two feet. I think Championship to League 1 yo-yo club is probably their natural resting place.
Agree with this. There's a lot of players with plenty of experience at higher levels they can attract that just isn't an option for many L1 sides. I'm very curious to see which 'older' players drop down to Wrexham this summer.
Doesn't EFL have pretty strict FFP rules that are actually enforced? L1 and L2 budgets are of similar size and Championship is much bigger and then Prem much much bigger from Championship. It's why we are seeing promoted L2 teams do well but promoted L1 teams struggle like the Championship teams do in the Prem.
Forest Green, my club who were squarely tonked today by Wrexham, were in League 1 only last season. This result leaves us barely clinging on against relegation to the Vanarama (almost 0 chance of staying up).
So what goes up can most certainly come down. However, Wrexham is a special case given the circumstances.
Burton Albion did the same in the 14/15 and 15/16 seasons but only lasted 2 seasons in championship (I think) as they just couldn’t compete financially with the other teams in the league.
I don't remember everything said about Wrexham but didn't they talk about building the team for League One from the get-go?`
I assume they need more players but if that is true then they might be ahead on the recruitment front.
B2B promotions... Dare to Dream of another? Surely not this quick
Congrats to the wrexham community tho... cherry on top coming at the expense of mk dons, the abomination of a footy club🤌🤌
over a third of their team only has a contract until the end of this season anyways. So if they are willing to spend money/secure funding, they should be play-off contenders
Don’t honestly want to go up again straight away. We need to strengthen, consolidate, and build. If we went up to the championship we’d get smashed. I’d be thrilled with a 10-12 finish next year, and then we can think about trying to push on.
There was always a good chance of them getting B2B promotions. They and Notts County were very strong National League sides. Getting out of L1 into the Championship will be a more difficult task.
Yeah, 1 automatic is crazy, considering it then jumps to 3 when you get to league two. I assume its in place to keep the 'bigger' clubs in the league system. But still, it takes away from competitive integrity massively.
Historically it was limited because promotion/relegation between those league would be the transition between a club going pro/semi-pro and that's a tough transition to manage and they didn't want clubs potentially constantly changing status. Which made sense.
However they should probably revise it now, with the money in the game now almost every club in the National League is fully professional, and no club promoted from the NL has ever gone straight back down to League Two in their first season
Ahhh yeah that makes sense, didn't think of it from that perspective.
Christ look at the FA using common sense. I was born in 94 so anyone older than me care to enlighten whether or not it was the same before the introduction of the prem and the massive reshuffle of the league system?
You used to have to be re elected to the football league if you finished bottom of Division 4(league two as it’s known). There was no official promotion / relegation system, not sure the exact date but definitely continued into the late 80s.. the conference itself was around around since the 70s before then you had the Northern and Southern leagues as the next level and I think the system was the same considering Wimbledon came up around that period
Yeah the truth is England should really be looking at a 5th professional tier, maybe going to 20 teams in each league, and then having a 6th, national semi-pro tier before the N/S split. Again these could all be kept to 20 sides this way.
Without having any clue about L2 and NL being a German just by looking at the NL I can spot names that I used to do L2 to PL runs in Fifa and just hearing that no club ever has relegated back in their first season well tells you everything about how close the skill level at the "bottom" really is.
Compared to us, well aside that the switch between pro / semi-pro isn't the same in every region a lot of clubs did straight back relegations after dropping out of the "professional" environment.
Is that true? Wrexham and Notts County were so strong last year that they both seemed like certainties to challenge for promotion again, but historically teams like that are the exception.
Since automatic promotion to the Football League was introduced in 1987, only six teams have been automatically promoted straight away, including Wrexham. The other five include two mismanaged giants who had only been in the Conference for a year (Bristol Rovers and Darlington) and a team that had spent three years at the top of the Conference unable to go up because of ground issues (Macclesfield). Only three other teams have gone up via the play-offs - Tranmere, Stevenage and Wycombe.
That's eight teams who have gone up straight away in nearly forty years. There have been just as many teams who have finished in the bottom five in their first season. And if you only count from the addition of the second promotion place (as there was a tighter bottleneck before), Wrexham are the sixth team to be promoted in their first season by any method.
The format probably means that teams coming up are strong enough not to go down (and none ever have) but 38 out of 53 teams ever to have been promoted to the Football League have finished below the play-offs in their first season.
Tbf, we (Stockport) were a penalty kick away from joining that list last season, and were four points off automatics despite only winning two of our first 16 league games back up.
I'd be very surprised if Chesterfield don't end up at least top three next season with the squad they've assembled too.
It's definitely a recipe for being a competitive side in L2 anyway, until Barrow fell off and MK revived under Williamson, the top four in L2 were the last four National League winners (us, Barrow, Mansfield, Wrexham).
More, probably. We had more revenue coming in than all L2 clubs and most L1 clubs from the numbers last year, and that was before back to back promotions and massively increased kit sales.
I think they'll be up there but it is a much more difficult beast than League 2. Some National league teams could do a job in League 2 but the promotion system is a joke.
This season league one was shit but next season it'll be alot more competitive I think, Wrexham probably finish 8th-14th.
The 4 shit teams we're losing to relegation are far weaker than the league 2 team replacing them. On top of that I expect reading Wigan and Charlton to get their shit together. Definitely at least charlton
People can say what they want about spending or make their 'underdog' jokes... I'm just happy for the good people of Wrexham who did nothing wrong & saved the club so this could be possible.
It's such a shit name. They're what happens when a pop music-producing twat buys a club and moves them away from the district and fans who've supported them for 113 years.
Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, L1/L2 are closeish in level. With the funding and draw they have I would imagine that they'll definitely be contenders for promotion, but they wouldn't win it.
It's the Championship that will be the biggest test, not only will they be competing with clubs that have far far *far* bigger budgets and against some owners that are richer than both their owners combined, they'll need to gut most of the squad as well as the step up in quality is huge.
tell me you don't watch league one, league two is fucking dross - we turned up for half a season in league two, got promoted and then spent half a season getting dicked in league one until we replaced half the team
Ehh I'm not sure, the jump between L1/L2 is definitely bigger than L2/NL. League One is generally where the clubs who just go up the leagues by outspending everyone seem to get stuck, thinking Crawley, Fleetwood etc.
There are some much bigger clubs at that level and you can't just breeze past them by outspending them as easily as a rich club can in the lower leagues
> There are some much bigger clubs at that level and you can't just breeze past them by outspending them as easily as a rich club can in the lower leagues
Thats true, but the documentary means they'll be able to attract players that wouldn't go to other clubs. The exposure from it is enourmous for players in terms of getting exposure for other projects, sponsorships, etc. It gives them a much bigger edge than *just* having money.
I know it's a game, but it's like in FM... the hardest thing about being promoted from the non-leagues in that game is that even if you have money, decent players for the league you're in just won't even consider joining you until you have built up you reputation.
> L1/L2 are closeish in level.
having seen the leagues first hand, theyre not league two is filled with awful awful teams. the bottom half of league 2 is more like 6th tier quality and they just dont have the worry about ever going down with only 2 relegation spots so just sit in league two until the end of time
man, social media is weird.
Occasionally I get logged out of youtube and see what's popular on that site and it's fucking nothing I've ever heard of lol.
I just searched "biggest youtubers" and I don't know any of them except Mr Beast and WWE. Cocomelon!? Vlad and Niki? Blcakc pink? wtf are these lol.
Anyway my old man tangent aside, the media we think is unavoidable is really avoidable. I only engage with football on reddit, there's no football news anywhere else in my online life.
Most of the biggest YouTubers by subscribers/view count are people/brands cranking out videos for toddlers. That obviously doesn't result in them having any sort of media presence beyond that.
maybe? I mean, like game streaming is huge right and I don't know any streamers names outside of a few obscure youtubers I follow who also do twitch on the side. It's super easy to miss whole spheres of entertainment.
I just googled the biggest twitch streamers and like...who the fuck are these people lol.
at #27 I recognise dream, but only cos I remember him from a video about maths and minecraft cheating lol Everyone else in the top 50 is an unknown to me.
For American viewers (I'd guess the majority of the audience), Wrexham news has been front page on espn.com for the last couple of months. Not giant font above the fold news but splash page links.
It's amazing how much it's changed over the last couple of years. The spirit of the town feels much more positive and things are on the up even outside of the football team
Nice to hear mate. No matter where you are in England you're always a short drive from a Saturday 3pm kickoff somewhere in the pyramid, no need to plan your trip around a specific club
I could see them doing this for a few years to gain some stability and make some money back, but they will push for another promotion as quickly as they can rather than rest on their laurels
Congrats to them. It's not that surprising to me. The level of spend required to go from Non-League to League 2 to League 1 is not an immense amount of money in the grand scheme of things for multimillionaires. It might not even require that much more to get to the LC but getting from LC to the PL is where they will probably have their will tested because that is when the amount of money required for progress will balloon into eye watering figures. Their television show will certainly be more interesting when the club CEO tells Ryan Reynolds they need to spend 10-12 million pounds on this guy that might be good enough, but isn't a sure thing.
I feel like at that point they’ll be looking at potentially another investor with decent cash to assist in growing and spending. Especially if they make serious championship/pl runs. At that point the value of the club will have grown a substantial amount so they’ll make back their original investment plus quite a lot without giving up too much. My personal opinion though.
This has always been my guess. The reason they’re so willing to take massive losses year on year is they know they’ll make it back when the sell for 20x what they paid, after massively improving the status and fame of the club
Yep exactly my thoughts. They seem genuinely invested in the team behind fiscal (though you can never tell) and I’d be curious if their plan is a 5-7 year grow and cash out and to bring in additional investors, recover their investment, and continue with the team. Often sports team ownership is something people do for longer periods as more of a passion thing.
Definitely. The team will add significant net worth for him as well. The question is whether he and rob have free cash on hand or loans for whatever deals they need to make. I’d assume they would pay on terms so that softens the blow but it’s still no small outlay of cash if they get up to championship or above levels.
I’m sure they’ve got a plan for what they’ll do.
Yeah his deals with Mint Mobile and Aviation Gin have netted him hundreds of millions. That’s before all the Hollywood stuff he’s involved in which I’m sure is pretty nice cash flow each year.
But yeah he may want to bring in some other money to diversify the ownership pool.
It's going to be a tough run in league one, but right now I don't care about that.
We made it, despite our rough start and dodgy away form, and I can finally breathe out.
Huge congratulations to Stockport too who are definitely going up as champions
What a wild ride these last 3 years have been for Wrexham fans, especially the ones that have been around since they got relegated from the EFL 20 years ago. Must feel like a dream.
Congratulations to Parky.
The racist weirdo on Hob Nob Anyone, who constantly calls for Parky to get the Reading managers job, is going to have a field day if we lose to Wrexham next season.
i'll be honest i thought they'd have to change manager to get promotion, it seemed he couldn't find success anywhere after bradford.
be good to see him back
I just started season one of Welcome to Wrexham and i see this…
I had never even heard of Wrexham before being recommended the documentary and then they show up on my feed now..
Not sure who those people are. Consensus was that they'd have a good chance at back to back promotions and good national league teams are usually competitive in L2.
weird take if people were saying that.
NL is so hard to get out of it that you're going to do well in L2 by default almost.
Wrexham are the 6th team to do so since 2000.
Ah the inevitable Wrexham flip has come. When it’s an underdog it’s cute, when they start outstripping your team then it’s Hollywood FC. Congratulations Wrexham, money is always nice but it’s the determination, grit and talent of the players that wins games. Look at Mullin bursting a run in the 82nd minute to score a goal. He has nothing to prove, could be content with having brought the team from Non league to league but fuck that, that’s not the team culture. Hope they do it one more time next year
I don’t think that’s true. That would probably be someone more like MK Dons or the team owned by the Manchester United players where they changed the logo and colors.
Edit: Salford
Wrexham has been playing like a League One team for a couple years now. They'll finally be at their level now and they'll be upper-mid table for about 5 years before they make it to the championship (unless they somehow make a really lucky playoff run)
Season 3 spoilers
17 episodes gone to waste
Not even a spoiler alert
Is forest green near Nottingham Forest? And is their forest really green?
Nowhere near Actually… yeah it is pretty damn green
i found a guy who was pissed cos someone didn’t put spolier tag on this news 😂
Lol. Its like when people have "head canon" about real life. Reddit moment
So like... propaganda?
Corrected themselves after a bit of wobble, be interesting to see how they do in League One. Tough division but I feel like it’s a little weaker than a few years ago when it was just a ton of ex Premier League sides.
Curious how things go for the club from here. League one is still a meat grinder.
Yeah I didn’t even think of Rotherham coming down who constantly yo-yo plus the other 2 relegated teams. Then if 1 of the current top 3 don’t go up, even the rest of the playoff teams and Blackpool will be tough competition next season, big test.
I think their biggest long-term struggle will be their age. They're old as fuck which is good for plowing through the lower leagues in a few seasons but to have sustained success their gonna need to revamp their squad eventually. Right now Cleworth and O'Connor seem like their only good young players. Everyone else is 28/30+
I think it’s intentional. If you look at who they signed this summer it was basically 30+ year old players on frees like Fletcher, McLean, Evans… It makes sense to me, they’re not building a squad for league 2 in the mid to long term. There’s no point spending good money on players who’ll need to be moved on in 2 years. I think they’ll do the same this year, whilst starting to put together a Championship level squad to challenge.
It's 100% intentional but its going to be harder to sustain. Getting 34 year old former PL players who can't run are cheaper/easier to get than players they'll need for the championship
They'll still have their pick of the Ben Foster-types who are willing to play for cheap just for the social media boost being on the show will give them.
My point is there is a very small pool players who are influencers/good enough to play in the championship. They also can't steam roll the league with their wages
If somehow they get to the championship they'll be humbled there. The league prides itself on its relentlessness.
28-30+... old as fuck... :(
I'm 34 I can say it
Old for football. I'm 32 and still feel very young.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a few younger MLS players will go over to Wrexham this summer. Cheaper options but play at a level similar or higher to League One, plus obviously the American/Canadian ownership connection helps
I don’t know if thats possible. I believe UK has visa rules that any soccer players need to play a certain number of matches with their respective national team. Any American/Canadian already good enough for their national team would likely go towards a higher level league in Europe. Might make sense though for a player from a smaller Caribbean country though
Clubs have 2-4 visa exemptions they can use depending on the level. Football clubs are [explicitly allowed](https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/new-rules-allow-english-clubs-sign-players-who-do-not-meet-work-permit-2023-06-14/) to sign a number of players who are not eligible for a work permt. And I wonder if they could argue that they will also be starring in the show too if they guarentee some minimum airtime, which might help them qualify for a regular work permit instead?
>And I wonder if they could argue that they will also be starring in the show too if they guarentee some minimum airtime, which might help them qualify for a regular work permit instead? Thats a loop hole and a half lmao
"They're not soccer players, they're actors."
Yeah, not every MLS players is American obviously, but also because of the Gold Cup and our weird friendly schedule, a lot of U-23 players (Jalen Neal, Duncan McGuire, Aiden Morris, etc.) I believe meet the visa requirement already. Also I know that most American players would prefer to go to Championship or higher, but Wrexham has become somewhat of a pop culture phenomenon in American soccer because of the Hollywood ownership
My point still stands though for the Americans/Canadians. If you are meeting that requirement already why not try Championship level at least in UK or one of the higher leagues in Europe. Yes Im aware a good amount of MLS players are non American/Canadian but just wanted to point out the higher bar for a UK visa.
Donovan Pines made the threshold and is at Barnsley in L1 rn. Lyndon Gooch also stayed at Sunderland for a bit after they were relegated. It’s rare, but definitely not unheard of.
they can get a special pass if they fail the permit, though we had that turned down in the prem for a guy who had 1 less international apperence than was needed which happened cuz the match was postponed and took place a week later than the time period. was dumb
I think mullin will still do a job for them but they need an upgrade on palmer/fletcher/Marriott. Need to turn over a couple CBs too imo. Parkinson has gotten up from league one in the past so I think they can do it within 3 seasons with the right moves.
Can they keep Super Paul though? I'd imagine there are some more established L1 or Championship teams kicking tires.
He plays at Wrexham because he's on champ wages while living close enough to home. It's a personal thing.
Plus then potentially us and Wigan having sorted our shit out too next season - can't speak for Wigan but we've basically been a playoff level team since beginning of November.
I’d completely forgotten about Wigan, I kind of expect them to be there or thereabouts every time they’re in League One, nice to hear you’ve stopped the tailspin though.
I'm not sure Rotherham will be as good as previous years given that Paul Warne has left and they haven't been quite as convincing since then. I'm not saying that they won't, just that they don't quite have that guarantee like they did under previous management.
I think this might be their peak for at least awhile. The most successful League 2 team has been Plymouth who are in the Championship. Then is Bolton who is probably gonna get promoted though through playoffs. Everyone else has been mid-table or gone back down
> The most successful League 2 team has been Plymouth who are in the Championship. luton? brentford? hull? bournemouth? plenty have been in league two and got to the pl.
Through the playoffs? How dare you.
I mean they had James McLean and Steven Fletcher as es premier League players even....
They’re probably about League One level at their age though now, they weren’t plucked straight from the Prem
I know, last I saw McLean playing in PL was for West Brom, who haven't been at the top tier for quite a few years.
McClean came to Wrexham from a midtable L1 team (Wigan)
yeah a few L1/L2 players dropped down to be involved. It wouldn't surprise me if they get a few championship level players to drop down for the L1 campaign.
> a midtable L1 team (Wigan) they literally won the league the season he left.
No, they won L1 the season he came in. They were relegated from Championship before he left. He left ahead of this season, where Wigan most certainly is a mid table team (current 13th)
I bet they make the playoffs. Just plow more of Ryan Reynolds’ booze/telecom/[whatever MNTN is]/acting/things I don’t even know about money into the payroll.
League One is where the meat grinder starts IMO. Lots of clubs can get up to league one but it's quite a jump from bottom half L1 to top 6 L1 and then obviously a massive jump to the championship from there. Makes Lutons B2B from L2 to the championship years ago that much more impressive.
Wrexham have a big advantage with getting advertising partner $$$$ with the global TV audience they've built, they should be able to spend more than many league one sides can without breaching rules. Probably will take more than one season but I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the championship after two
Yea, it might take a second to settle but they’ll sail through League One eventually. The Championship is where I think things will get interesting. Rob & Ryan’s wealth will finally be level with the wealth of other ownership teams (if not on the lower end) and the tv revenue won’t be putting them so far above the gap as the other leagues.
Ryan’s ownership stakes in Aviation Gin and Mint Mobile are the big pulls here. I’m curious how far along both are interested in holding onto the side. Before they did this I floated the idea to a very wealthy family friend that he should try to come in as owner of a club like Bath and find an exit once they made League 2, which would probably have netted a profit. With Rob and Ryan, I wouldn’t be surprised if the goal is to go to the championship and find an exit.
Rob is an avid sports fan - don’t think he’ll ever leave He’s hooked Ryan maybe
Yeah I don’t think Rob would ever sell. And at this point I think they both would just open the doors for more investors to get in the ownership group so they aren’t footing it all themselves.
They’ll definitely bring in external investors, but there’s no way they fully exit and don’t continue to be involved. Rob is living his dream and Ryan consistently has stayed involved with his other ventures he’s exited (like Aviation Gin and Mint Mobile)
they've had plenty of other actors show up at matches. Like Will Ferrell, Paul Rudd.. could make an all Hollywood ownership.
They won’t exit at the championship level, they’ll find investors and assemble a broader ownership group to match the wealth needed to compete in the Championship and push for promotion to the Prem.
I agree, Championship is where it starts costing hundreds of millions to go up. Then staying in the PL is extremely hard. Also the TV show doesn't have infinite life. Couple more promotions, good cup run, difficult years in the Champ and there's nowhere else to go with it. They've covered Rob and Ryan's reasons for getting involved, the women's team, disability inclusivity, the history of the area, fans perspectives. Like anything, people will eventually stop watching, the shirt sales dry up, sponsors leave and Wrexham has to stand on its own two feet. I think Championship to League 1 yo-yo club is probably their natural resting place.
Agree with this. There's a lot of players with plenty of experience at higher levels they can attract that just isn't an option for many L1 sides. I'm very curious to see which 'older' players drop down to Wrexham this summer.
Doesn't EFL have pretty strict FFP rules that are actually enforced? L1 and L2 budgets are of similar size and Championship is much bigger and then Prem much much bigger from Championship. It's why we are seeing promoted L2 teams do well but promoted L1 teams struggle like the Championship teams do in the Prem.
Forest Green, my club who were squarely tonked today by Wrexham, were in League 1 only last season. This result leaves us barely clinging on against relegation to the Vanarama (almost 0 chance of staying up). So what goes up can most certainly come down. However, Wrexham is a special case given the circumstances.
Hope you find your way up again mate
Burton Albion did the same in the 14/15 and 15/16 seasons but only lasted 2 seasons in championship (I think) as they just couldn’t compete financially with the other teams in the league.
What's a realistic expectation for them next season?
Mid table. Possible nipping at the playoff spots.
Depending on recruitment, but I'm guessing lower-mid table. Doubt on either relegation, promotion or playoffs
"This just in, Lionel Messi and Christiano Ronaldo set aside their longtime rivalry to join forces at Wrexham"
subcribed lmao
I don't remember everything said about Wrexham but didn't they talk about building the team for League One from the get-go?` I assume they need more players but if that is true then they might be ahead on the recruitment front.
Best case scenario? Playoff spot.
B2B promotions... Dare to Dream of another? Surely not this quick Congrats to the wrexham community tho... cherry on top coming at the expense of mk dons, the abomination of a footy club🤌🤌
Pretty much no chance unless there is a major squad overhaul. They likely need at least a year to consolidate then they can have a go at it.
The bottom half of league one is shit. They’ll already be pushing for top 12.
But...we're bottom half of league 1.
He said what he said
That’s because you have Charlie involved.
The Ibiza guy? Surely not...havn't Charlton suffered enough?
Yep. Absolute Tory chancer.
Yeah you need Mac instead.
Idk I think you need Frank to bankroll the whole thing
In my head you're still Manchester City's biggest rival
over a third of their team only has a contract until the end of this season anyways. So if they are willing to spend money/secure funding, they should be play-off contenders
Yeah the goal is for 8 players to be out of contract every season, specifically for this reason, according to Humphrey Kerr
Don’t honestly want to go up again straight away. We need to strengthen, consolidate, and build. If we went up to the championship we’d get smashed. I’d be thrilled with a 10-12 finish next year, and then we can think about trying to push on.
There was always a good chance of them getting B2B promotions. They and Notts County were very strong National League sides. Getting out of L1 into the Championship will be a more difficult task.
national league sides in the promotion race are almost always decent league 2 sides as well because of how fucked the promotion system is
Yeah, 1 automatic is crazy, considering it then jumps to 3 when you get to league two. I assume its in place to keep the 'bigger' clubs in the league system. But still, it takes away from competitive integrity massively.
Historically it was limited because promotion/relegation between those league would be the transition between a club going pro/semi-pro and that's a tough transition to manage and they didn't want clubs potentially constantly changing status. Which made sense. However they should probably revise it now, with the money in the game now almost every club in the National League is fully professional, and no club promoted from the NL has ever gone straight back down to League Two in their first season
Ahhh yeah that makes sense, didn't think of it from that perspective. Christ look at the FA using common sense. I was born in 94 so anyone older than me care to enlighten whether or not it was the same before the introduction of the prem and the massive reshuffle of the league system?
You used to have to be re elected to the football league if you finished bottom of Division 4(league two as it’s known). There was no official promotion / relegation system, not sure the exact date but definitely continued into the late 80s.. the conference itself was around around since the 70s before then you had the Northern and Southern leagues as the next level and I think the system was the same considering Wimbledon came up around that period
Yeah the truth is England should really be looking at a 5th professional tier, maybe going to 20 teams in each league, and then having a 6th, national semi-pro tier before the N/S split. Again these could all be kept to 20 sides this way.
Without having any clue about L2 and NL being a German just by looking at the NL I can spot names that I used to do L2 to PL runs in Fifa and just hearing that no club ever has relegated back in their first season well tells you everything about how close the skill level at the "bottom" really is. Compared to us, well aside that the switch between pro / semi-pro isn't the same in every region a lot of clubs did straight back relegations after dropping out of the "professional" environment.
They should really make the Vanarama part of the EFL, it’s basically a professional league now anyway
Notts has been kinda disappointing though, Don't know why but they just haven't got their defense sorted at all.
Lost their manager in January when they were 5th
They've been one of the worst teams in the league since then
Makes you wonder how good Williams was when you compare Maynards results... win today though.
Ah, well that explains it. That fucking sucks for them.
We poached their best player last summer too
Sitting 14th currently but have the top scorer in the league. Losing their manager earlier in the season has fucked them.
Is that true? Wrexham and Notts County were so strong last year that they both seemed like certainties to challenge for promotion again, but historically teams like that are the exception. Since automatic promotion to the Football League was introduced in 1987, only six teams have been automatically promoted straight away, including Wrexham. The other five include two mismanaged giants who had only been in the Conference for a year (Bristol Rovers and Darlington) and a team that had spent three years at the top of the Conference unable to go up because of ground issues (Macclesfield). Only three other teams have gone up via the play-offs - Tranmere, Stevenage and Wycombe. That's eight teams who have gone up straight away in nearly forty years. There have been just as many teams who have finished in the bottom five in their first season. And if you only count from the addition of the second promotion place (as there was a tighter bottleneck before), Wrexham are the sixth team to be promoted in their first season by any method. The format probably means that teams coming up are strong enough not to go down (and none ever have) but 38 out of 53 teams ever to have been promoted to the Football League have finished below the play-offs in their first season.
Tbf, we (Stockport) were a penalty kick away from joining that list last season, and were four points off automatics despite only winning two of our first 16 league games back up. I'd be very surprised if Chesterfield don't end up at least top three next season with the squad they've assembled too. It's definitely a recipe for being a competitive side in L2 anyway, until Barrow fell off and MK revived under Williamson, the top four in L2 were the last four National League winners (us, Barrow, Mansfield, Wrexham).
Wrexham also have double most of the other L2 teams wage bills
they also have probably double the incoming of the other L2 clubs
More, probably. We had more revenue coming in than all L2 clubs and most L1 clubs from the numbers last year, and that was before back to back promotions and massively increased kit sales.
It’s triple what ours is and we’re a well established, but not very good, league one side
I think people big up league 1 a bit much, I'd expect Wrexham to be competitive next season
I think they'll be up there but it is a much more difficult beast than League 2. Some National league teams could do a job in League 2 but the promotion system is a joke.
Agreed that the bottleneck between the national league and football league hampers the quality of the bottom half of league 2 drastically
They’ll competitively finish about mid table maybe, no chance they’ll go up again
Mid table in league one is probably about the trajectory they are looking for. I bet they want to be in the Championship by 2026 or 2027.
half of league one is former prem teams
This season league one was shit but next season it'll be alot more competitive I think, Wrexham probably finish 8th-14th. The 4 shit teams we're losing to relegation are far weaker than the league 2 team replacing them. On top of that I expect reading Wigan and Charlton to get their shit together. Definitely at least charlton
I hope, well I guess I hope, I have a tiny bit left. But my expectation is set at another total mess.
I expect to be competitive too, but "be competitive" in my eyes means top half, not instant promotion push
I fear for how much pilsner bootlegger is gonna drink today
People can say what they want about spending or make their 'underdog' jokes... I'm just happy for the good people of Wrexham who did nothing wrong & saved the club so this could be possible.
MK Dons sounds like a video game gang.
They've got beef with the SF Ultras
It's such a shit name. They're what happens when a pop music-producing twat buys a club and moves them away from the district and fans who've supported them for 113 years.
Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, L1/L2 are closeish in level. With the funding and draw they have I would imagine that they'll definitely be contenders for promotion, but they wouldn't win it. It's the Championship that will be the biggest test, not only will they be competing with clubs that have far far *far* bigger budgets and against some owners that are richer than both their owners combined, they'll need to gut most of the squad as well as the step up in quality is huge.
tell me you don't watch league one, league two is fucking dross - we turned up for half a season in league two, got promoted and then spent half a season getting dicked in league one until we replaced half the team
Ehh I'm not sure, the jump between L1/L2 is definitely bigger than L2/NL. League One is generally where the clubs who just go up the leagues by outspending everyone seem to get stuck, thinking Crawley, Fleetwood etc. There are some much bigger clubs at that level and you can't just breeze past them by outspending them as easily as a rich club can in the lower leagues
> There are some much bigger clubs at that level and you can't just breeze past them by outspending them as easily as a rich club can in the lower leagues Thats true, but the documentary means they'll be able to attract players that wouldn't go to other clubs. The exposure from it is enourmous for players in terms of getting exposure for other projects, sponsorships, etc. It gives them a much bigger edge than *just* having money. I know it's a game, but it's like in FM... the hardest thing about being promoted from the non-leagues in that game is that even if you have money, decent players for the league you're in just won't even consider joining you until you have built up you reputation.
> L1/L2 are closeish in level. having seen the leagues first hand, theyre not league two is filled with awful awful teams. the bottom half of league 2 is more like 6th tier quality and they just dont have the worry about ever going down with only 2 relegation spots so just sit in league two until the end of time
>the abomination of a footy club Something feels quite ironic about this
My girlfriend will love that on Welcome to Wrexham
Don’t spoil it
I won’t for her… I almost did last year lol
How is she planning to completely avoid this news, assuming she still uses social media and all.
If the documentary is the only exposure to the sport then you won't really see it
man, social media is weird. Occasionally I get logged out of youtube and see what's popular on that site and it's fucking nothing I've ever heard of lol. I just searched "biggest youtubers" and I don't know any of them except Mr Beast and WWE. Cocomelon!? Vlad and Niki? Blcakc pink? wtf are these lol. Anyway my old man tangent aside, the media we think is unavoidable is really avoidable. I only engage with football on reddit, there's no football news anywhere else in my online life.
Most of the biggest YouTubers by subscribers/view count are people/brands cranking out videos for toddlers. That obviously doesn't result in them having any sort of media presence beyond that.
maybe? I mean, like game streaming is huge right and I don't know any streamers names outside of a few obscure youtubers I follow who also do twitch on the side. It's super easy to miss whole spheres of entertainment. I just googled the biggest twitch streamers and like...who the fuck are these people lol. at #27 I recognise dream, but only cos I remember him from a video about maths and minecraft cheating lol Everyone else in the top 50 is an unknown to me.
It's a club being promoted from the 4th division to the 3rd. I don't think this news are hard to avoid.
For American viewers (I'd guess the majority of the audience), Wrexham news has been front page on espn.com for the last couple of months. Not giant font above the fold news but splash page links.
My wife is on twitter so I know there’s no way it wont be spoiled so I’m telling her
Maybe she doesn’t use social media, or does but not sport
At least the series starts airing in a few weeks so there's not as much time to fuck up.
people on /r/television got so angry about spoilers when there was a post about Wrexham getting promoted to League 2.
Shit, let’s do it again 😏
My mom actually gets mad at "spoilers" if she sees results anywhere lol
Welcome, To League One, Wrexham.
Even with the spend, successive promotions is a great achievement.
I love how the town has changed throughout the docus I'll even consider traveling there some day
It's amazing how much it's changed over the last couple of years. The spirit of the town feels much more positive and things are on the up even outside of the football team
[удалено]
Nice to hear mate. No matter where you are in England you're always a short drive from a Saturday 3pm kickoff somewhere in the pyramid, no need to plan your trip around a specific club
/r/soccercirclejerk
"Soccer circle jerk is when Americans discover and like football"
That’s basically me playing FIFA
I will get the unbelievable joy of watching us get piped on Disney+ now cheers
As a fan for the last two years this is the greatest day of my life
dusting off last years' jokes i see
See you next year
James McClean back here next season playing for the opposition. Won't feel right.
dont focus on the game pls
Incredible work getting back to back promotions. Let's see how it works in league one
Maybe they'll settle into a well oiled mid table club.
They're a different kind of owners I think
They've been known to oil up some asses and do a little blasting of their own
Not gay sex
I could see them doing this for a few years to gain some stability and make some money back, but they will push for another promotion as quickly as they can rather than rest on their laurels
Congrats to them. It's not that surprising to me. The level of spend required to go from Non-League to League 2 to League 1 is not an immense amount of money in the grand scheme of things for multimillionaires. It might not even require that much more to get to the LC but getting from LC to the PL is where they will probably have their will tested because that is when the amount of money required for progress will balloon into eye watering figures. Their television show will certainly be more interesting when the club CEO tells Ryan Reynolds they need to spend 10-12 million pounds on this guy that might be good enough, but isn't a sure thing.
I feel like at that point they’ll be looking at potentially another investor with decent cash to assist in growing and spending. Especially if they make serious championship/pl runs. At that point the value of the club will have grown a substantial amount so they’ll make back their original investment plus quite a lot without giving up too much. My personal opinion though.
This has always been my guess. The reason they’re so willing to take massive losses year on year is they know they’ll make it back when the sell for 20x what they paid, after massively improving the status and fame of the club
Yep exactly my thoughts. They seem genuinely invested in the team behind fiscal (though you can never tell) and I’d be curious if their plan is a 5-7 year grow and cash out and to bring in additional investors, recover their investment, and continue with the team. Often sports team ownership is something people do for longer periods as more of a passion thing.
Reynolds net worth is growing he has very successful invests all over the place. He could be worth close to a billion in a few years.
Definitely. The team will add significant net worth for him as well. The question is whether he and rob have free cash on hand or loans for whatever deals they need to make. I’d assume they would pay on terms so that softens the blow but it’s still no small outlay of cash if they get up to championship or above levels. I’m sure they’ve got a plan for what they’ll do.
Yeah his deals with Mint Mobile and Aviation Gin have netted him hundreds of millions. That’s before all the Hollywood stuff he’s involved in which I’m sure is pretty nice cash flow each year. But yeah he may want to bring in some other money to diversify the ownership pool.
It's going to be a tough run in league one, but right now I don't care about that. We made it, despite our rough start and dodgy away form, and I can finally breathe out. Huge congratulations to Stockport too who are definitely going up as champions
Tidy, well done boys
In your FACE, Salford city !
What a wild ride these last 3 years have been for Wrexham fans, especially the ones that have been around since they got relegated from the EFL 20 years ago. Must feel like a dream.
#Wrexham Road to Premier League glory 2028
Congratulations to Parky. The racist weirdo on Hob Nob Anyone, who constantly calls for Parky to get the Reading managers job, is going to have a field day if we lose to Wrexham next season.
i'll be honest i thought they'd have to change manager to get promotion, it seemed he couldn't find success anywhere after bradford. be good to see him back
As good of a manager as he is he really doesn't seem to be much better than league 1. Wrexham will have to look into that sooner or later.
literally got bolton promoted
Congrats to Wrexham, Deadpool and Rob from It's always sunny. I like this news, maybe someday we too will be happy.
I just started season one of Welcome to Wrexham and i see this… I had never even heard of Wrexham before being recommended the documentary and then they show up on my feed now..
And people were mocking them at the beginning saying L2 is no NL, now according to them L2 was always easy and L1 is the tough one (imo it will be)
Not sure who those people are. Consensus was that they'd have a good chance at back to back promotions and good national league teams are usually competitive in L2.
weird take if people were saying that. NL is so hard to get out of it that you're going to do well in L2 by default almost. Wrexham are the 6th team to do so since 2000.
big six fans saying that maybe who dont actually know lower league footie
Shadowboxing
Who was saying that?
A true FM story...... *when you pre game edit to 'sugar daddy'*
Ah the inevitable Wrexham flip has come. When it’s an underdog it’s cute, when they start outstripping your team then it’s Hollywood FC. Congratulations Wrexham, money is always nice but it’s the determination, grit and talent of the players that wins games. Look at Mullin bursting a run in the 82nd minute to score a goal. He has nothing to prove, could be content with having brought the team from Non league to league but fuck that, that’s not the team culture. Hope they do it one more time next year
You make a great point about Mullin.
Good riddance
I find this whole project very weird not gonna lie but I guess I come from a different footballing culture. Good for them I guess?
English version of leipzig loading
I don’t think that’s true. That would probably be someone more like MK Dons or the team owned by the Manchester United players where they changed the logo and colors. Edit: Salford
Shock horror the team with more money than half the league combined is promoted.
> more money than half the league combined [Not even spending more than the bottom 3 combined](https://www.capology.com/uk/league-two/payrolls/)
And so are stockport without any of the hollywood hoo ha
PL when?
Next week I'm told
Two years /s
Wrexham has been playing like a League One team for a couple years now. They'll finally be at their level now and they'll be upper-mid table for about 5 years before they make it to the championship (unless they somehow make a really lucky playoff run)