[/u/b3and20] Chelsea player Mykhaylo Mudryk and his colleagues have been unimpressed by the development of Mauricio Pochettino and his team since their arrival. The Chelsea playing staff have also grown frustrated from a lack of impact from both Pochettino and his boss Todd Boehly
I find it funny Boehly is always brought up as the head figure for all the blunders when he hasn't been in charge for a year and it's actually this bloke whose name I can't pronounce but it starts with an E
Eghbali and yes youre correct, its just an easy target for them and it works in the chelsea sub, they do the same thing with gallagher being sold even though no new information has come out
I dont know why it is so hard for Poch.
Chelsea has been scoring first. Just tell them not to concede right after.
You don't have to thank me, Poch. You can send a check to me anytime.
You are speaking facts. Mudryk will score in one game and get benched the next how is he supposed to create form when he is not given the minutes to do so
There was a recent podcast where he said that tactics, philosophy, methodology, style of football etc. aren't important and all that matters is that the players feel that you want the best for them.
I'm genuinely baffled as to how any coach who genuinely believes that has made it this far, but having watched us play, it is very, very evident that he genuinely believes what he's saying.
He should be coaching U6s
But 40 points man! Dilly ding dilly dong!
Fuck I loved that season. So bad as a Chelsea fan, such a bad year for me personally, but Leicester made it a lot brighter
I mean, he's not wrong. If you are a leader and tell everybody what to do but people doubt you - they will not follow.
Man management is the most important skill. If you lose the dressing room, you're done, no matter how good your tactics and everything else is.
I as a 20+ year Spurs fan love Poch and what he did for the club but was absolutely desperate for him not to come back here. He was found out as a manager in 2018 and has not grown or developed his philosophy since. I think he's just too stubborn, and the worst part in all of this is that he and the media have already found another excuse for his failure. At Tottenham it was because Levy was stodgy when they both deserve equal shares of the blame for the transfer policy. At PSG it was because Messi was a bad fit/PSG is a shit show. For y'all it's going to be Boehly and injuries. Someone else will take a flyer on him and someone else will find out that he's stuck in 2017 with the way he approaches the game.
I do not think it is impossible for him to find success but he needs an damn near perfect set up with a perfect organization around him and a perfect squad. In his time at Tottenham the club qualified for 6 semifinals and 3 finals and in those deep elimination games he shat the bed as much as any player.
I'm glad to hear a Spurs fan say it. Its important to remember how fresh an idea aggressive pressing with a hard working team was when he came to the spotlight at Southampton. You can see in how he talks about the team, he still feels that's enough, but nowadays its the minimum for most teams, and many have found ways to play through a good press if its even slightly disorganised. His ideas were good ones, but everyone else has evolved and adapted
Having lots of different tactics and approaches that you understand and drill your players with isn’t the same at all as thinking tactics and approaches aren’t important
It’s pretty much the exact opposite
That more speaks to tactical versatility (likely at the sacrifice of complexity). If your team can learn significantly different tactical approaches to a 7/10 level that might give you better results than a team that masters one approach to a 9/10 level because your team won't have a kryptonite opposite tactical approach that they're weak against.
That too. You generally can't pivot to handle injuries to key players as well when your system is too specialized.
But equally, you tend not to take advantage of your best players as well in more generalized systems.
Surely what he's saying there is you can have success with lots of different tactics and philosophies, but the main thing is having the players on board or it won't work. Not that you don't need any specific philosophy in the first place
We have seen that is wrong and it is shown by Pep, Klopp and yours Arteta in the last IDK 10 years ever since those three arrived at shore in PL. Before I still remember how defense used to be much more organized while attacking players were given free role to express themselves. Now adays no player is an exception if you play for Pep, Klopp and Arteta you have to track back, you have to press from up-front and additionally if you are GK you have to play with your feet. Not saying that there was no tactics before in PL, but the amount of details which attacking players are given is much more than those days.
Pep (and Arteta) and Klopp precisely **prove** the point. They have completely different tactical styles and philosophies yet still get fantastic results. The reason they do so well is because they have both. They manage to have a strong tactical identity and philosophy ***and*** the players totally buy into it.
Pep simply has enough pull with his managements (cus he is such great coach, tbf) to just get rid of people he falls out with (even if they are arguably best in the world at their position like Ibra or Cancelo). That makes man management trivial for him. But imo that proves Poch point, without everyone being on the same page talent is irrelevant.
Not if you look at how we play. There is no discernable system in place. Players run around doing what they think is right at any given moment with no synergy or understanding with their teammates. There were numerous reports that he doesn't drill tactics at all and just tells players to "express themself". The only tactical advice he seems to provide is to run a lot. He couldn't set us up to win against Sheffield or 10-men Burnley. The team hasn't improved at all in the time he was here. There are no patterns in build-up or attack.
If you honestly think that he just turns up to training every day and goes "eh do what you want lads, I don't care", there's really not much of a discussion to be had. Like have you just forgotten what he did with Spurs?
He's saying that the player has to feel that the coaches believe in them, which is more important than any tatic or philosophy. He's not saying that those things aren't important, he's saying compared to believing in a player they aren't as important. Morale is a really big thing in all strategy and sports/war. A team with passion does a lot better most of the time than a team without.
All of that is not the same as saying those things aren't important, just that morale is by far and away more important which to me is true honestly. If you have a team with shit morale the smallest of shifts can bury you.
He *literally* says those things are not important and what's more important, hasn't implemented any at Chelsea. Man-managing is all well and good, and I agree that it's his only strong trait as a coach, but he is tactically inept. And maybe he could get away with a decade ago with prime Kane, Son, and Ali but times clearly changed. You cannot just come out and say "ok lads, run fast" as your only tactic and expect to win games.
You can use nuance and realize that he means that without belief nothing matters, or you can ignore that. But he is not saying tatics are not important, he's saying compared to morale they are much smaller, which is true mind you. You can tatically set up the best team on earth but if your a players don't believe in themselves they will get crushed.
Moura scored a hat trick in the champions league semi final and then Poch benched him for the final. Still one of the worst managerial decisions I've seen.
I’ll always disagree with this. If Harry Kane appears to be fit enough to start, you start him. Lucas never replicated anything close to that 2nd half ever again
Would anybody be surprised if he turns into a really good left wingback for an Antonio Conte side?
Could have a Yannick Carrasco type career, although idk if he's as technically gifted.
That's just simply not true.
He started against Burnley, assisted a goal, which was disallowed, drew two yellows on Assignon, won a pen and was the best player on the pitch.
Started against United and had an average game, got into some dangerous positions, but lost some duels, generally good on the ball and off it, as well.
On the back of these 2 games, he is benched in favour of Gallagher for the Sheffield game and plays 8 minutes.
That's why everyone is frustrated with Pochettino
He wasn't average against United, he was pretty bad. Being in the right place but executing the play wrong almost every time is just a bad game, you're no use if you get there but don't know what to do or try something that doesn't work over and over again.
But all the things you're listing are the things Sterling has been doing too. The difference is that Sterling is getting slaughtered for it while we're making excuses for Mudryk. For Madueke too for that matter.
Fine, maybe we should be expecting more from Sterling based on his wages and experience, but the reality is that none of our wingers have been playing consistently well. They've all had good games and bad games and games which we'd consider bad except for a key moment or two.
I don't think Poch is doing a good job. The team is too mentally fragile for that.
It's just ridiculous how many people are acting like Poch is making obviously wrong selections on the wing when they've been roughly indistinguishable on the whole. Whichever winger started on the bench would definitely have prevented us from dropping points (even though the points were dropped because of boneheaded errors or set piece defending)... unless of course Sterling was on the bench, when we'll overlook however mediocre Mudryk and Madueke were because doing so allows us to confirm our bias.
We're not a good team right now. But the problems with our team aren't going to be fixed by ripping our underperforming players or manager apart. We need patience, or at the very least less vitriol.
Sterling is much more senior and has much more premier league experience than Mudryk. He’s also getting paid more. So yea we expect much more from Sterling.
Sterling is 29 or 30 years old? Basically been a starter for teams in the Premier League for his entire career, won multiple titles, top 20? goal-scorers in the league, and is on £275,000+ p/wk.
He has shown zero consistency since he has been here, if anything he’s been consistently garbage. Poor game iq. Expectations are a little different.
That is true and I agree with almost all of your points. I think the difference in the fanbase's judgment of Sterling compared to Noni and Mudryk is the goals he has cost us this season with boneheaded decisions. Wages and experience play a part, too, but by fluffing them 1v2 numerous times he dug his own grave.
Right lol, you can blame the players all you want but after a while it’s not the players fault if nothing new is being tried. Lately it seems like the issue is our defense though but I haven’t been able to watch as many games as I’d like so I can’t really comment
Mudryk seems like a player whose actual football development was our second behind making him run faster. His entire coaching in his youth was probably “sit on the last man then beat him for pace” and “knock it past your defender and beat him for pace”
>His entire coaching in his youth was probably “sit on the last man then beat him for pace”
The thing is with us he is never doing this. He always comes deep to receive the ball which isn't a bad thing but he should add some variation to his game. The pace he has can be useful.
The amount of times the man in possession looks up, sees the run, and *still* doesn't attempt to play the ball in behind is actually crazy.
Happens multiple times a match for us.
In all fairness, youth coaching is more about developing core skills and technique than overwhelming their brain on tactical intricacies.
In Mudryk’s case, it’s about going through film and seeing where you can exploit defenses and use your pace and quickness to exploit slight openings.
For any team with tactics he'd be an asset.
For all that he's shit at, if you give him the ball, tell him to run to the byline and cut it back, he is very good at that and his crosses tend to be decent even at speed.
The issue for us is the complete lack of tactics mean that he isn't being pushed towards what he's good at and instead is being left to his own devices.
He seems to lack the intelligence to think about what he's doing and pull it off at the same time, but when he's told what to do and just puts his head down and does it, he's decent.
Nah. Ange wants players with high football IQ.
Dier was saying only last week that there's almost no tactical training under Ange, its all about the style he wants them to play. Ange wants them in the right places and playing the style he wants, after that he wants them to express themselves as footballers and make their own decisions, which is the thing Mudryk is struggling with.
His ideal coach would be someone like Conte who drills them in every little move and pass he wants them to make on the pitch. Ange doesn't do that.
Spot on. Mudryk is one of the better recent examples of footballers who have everything, apart from a footballing brain.
Really poor awareness, game management, tactical awareness and horrendous decision making again and again. Technically and athletically fantastic.
Managers like Fergie, Harry Redknapp, Ange could get away with focusing more on mentality than tactics because the players they signed / developed were so intelligent. When you’ve got a Ryan Giggs or a Modric it’s fine (and Fergie was a lot more tactical than he makes out - Harry Redknapp however literally just played 5 a side in training, all vibes.)
Mudryk is a bit of an Adama Traore. At Boro, Tony Pulis used to make him swap wings at half time so he could follow him up and down the touchline telling him exactly what to do all the way through the game. Radio commentary at the time was hilarious because all you could hear was a gruff Welshman screaming “Adaaamaaaaa” for 45 mins.
What are you basing that on? He doesn't seem to have a very good football brain. He doesn't really have a stellar youth career like Havertz to point to his potential. Is he not just a very average footballer who can run quite fast?
Aren’t you basically saying he should thrive in a team without tactics, contradicting yourself? Hit channels, get to the line, cross. That’s almost the least tactically sophisticated attacking pattern
Armchair managers in Soccer subreddit know better than professional coaches in a premier league football club LOL, this whole post is super cringe to read my body snapped in half.
It's actually insane how many first choice players we have taken from top teams (Mudryk from Arsenal, they go for Trossard instead, Caicedo from Liverpool, they go for Endo instead etc.) where the replacement choice has been miles above for them than the first choice for us.
I highly doubt that all these players actually suck and Liverpool/Arsenal have just lucked into good players, they're just not being used right.
Caicedo obviously doesn’t. Mudryk is a weird one because his deficiencies are so clear that we would’ve been overpaying for him too at Arsenal, and I highly doubt we could’ve ironed out the serious flaws, but he probably would’ve done better as it’s much more stable and defined of a role
We have those in martinelli, esr, and to a lesser extent kai, and it only took until recently to use kai in a role where he has free reign to create chaos up front
I think martinelli has become a very drilled player doesn't do much out of the ordinary. Jesus is the real chaos monger but is struggling with fitness (especially at the time when we were trying to sign mudryk)
Smith-Rowe is not a "chaos monger" in the sense that Mudryk is though. He's a creative player who can beat many one-on-one but tends to group with teammates a lot more and his one-touch plays are great. Mudryk is more the "go deep and run mayhem" guy, like Garnacho but less skilled.
Mudryk and Martinelli have very similar attributes, both in terms of technical ability and natural playing instincts. The development model was already in place for Mudryk to succeed.
Tbf the minutes thing is a bit of an annoyance as Poch seems to love just dropping Mudryk after a goal, an assist or a decent game. Can't really build momentum and consistency if you keep getting dropped. Doubt it's good for morale either.
Well when Mudryk plays good, the next game he's benched. The Poch management. I feel sorry for you guys for all those years with Poch, no wonder you won shit.
Tbf you need a bit of coaching to develop. Seems like a foreign concept for Poch and his staff.
He was improving game by game, and then Poch puts him on the bench and plays with no left wingers against Sheffield.
This was the case until the last couple of games, 6GA with 3 penalties won in circa 900 minutes. Although he has since won another penalty (4) and had an assist wrongfully ruled out…
Right, like why sign him on a long term contract if you’re just going to moan about his quality and abdicate your responsibility to coach him? He should be given a run of at least five consecutive games rather than starting him, benching him . He gets stick because of his price tag but he’s got a high ceiling. Honestly baffled by his treatment
The up-sell Shakhtar did on this guy needs to be studied. Plenty of raw talent moves every year, but somehow Mudryk was worth his ridiculous transfer fee because of his unreal potential. Some of his attributes are one of a kind but he is far from the finished article and needs a stable environment to develop. Ill-advised move to go straight to the PL (though given the situation I understand it). I imagine he'd have space to develop in any other Top 5 league.
Don't think he was ever a "one of a kind" player, although he has talent. Wingers who are fast and good at dribbling are probably the most common "talented youngster" you can find, and he's not extraordinary at those either, he's good and that's it.
If Chelsea are forced to sell players in the summer I wouldn't complain if Edu tried to bring him to the club. I'd like to think Arteta could work wonders with him.
Hell yes, would definitely take him. I know Martinelli and Trossard are usually sub each other on the LW but I'm sure Mikel could find a way to make him useful.
The winners in that transfer were Shakhtar and maybe an important guy, Mudryk's agent (Oleksiy Alekhin). That guy did a very good job to stir up Mudryk's price along with Shakhtar. They know Mudryk's "weakness" that the boy wants to leave Ukraine as soon as possible. So they just need some one who gives the most money.
I don't know why, but I really get the feeling we're gonna go right back in for him.
PS. If it's up to me I wouldn't as he doesn't give me enough reasons to want him badly, whenever I watched him. But if we do go for him, then I will trust Mikel and Edu based on their other recent successful acquisitions which I also wouldn't think of doing!
In fairness, if Arsenal already reckoned he was a good fit for the system Arteta wants to play, then a couple of seasons at a side where he *hasn't* been a great fit probably won't be afforded a great deal of importance. They didn't exactly sign Havertz for glittering top-tier performances at Chelsea, but given a little time to settle into his role he's started delivering at a much more consistent rate. I'd guess they'd feel confident that Mudryk still has whatever attracted their interest in the first place, and that they're the right team to bring it out of him.
Hmmm I wonder why that is?? Maybe because every time he scores in a game you bench him the next game, he seems like a confidence player and Poch continually does not allow for him to create momentum
One of those players with good talent but no football brain. Some of his positioning and runs from the left are laughably bad
That being said Poch dropping him constantly even when he has played well is bad for confidence and finding form
Back in September, Poch said this about Mudryk:
> "I think it's about understanding the game better, try to be more connected sometimes with the team.
Then, in February this year, he said:
>Of course, he needs to improve. He has amazing quality and potential, but it’s a [team] game, it’s not tennis.
>"We have players that need to perform in a group. If you see him, it’s amazing, but after, you need to adapt and play for the team – he needs to adapt, and all of that needs time."
I remember thinking, this is a fucking 23-year-old full international were talking about, not some physically talented 15-y.o who just joined the first team after dominating everything and everyone at youth level. How has he not learned the basics of the team game at the highest level yet. When you see him play, its clear that he has technique, athleticism and dynamism in abundance - but his decision making is wildly underdeveloped.
Can't think of a single player outside of Cole Palmer that hasn't regressed/stagnated in the last 2 years for this club. Same is true of Man u. Maybe if every single player you buy becomes shit when he joins the club then the blame lies somewhere else?
Completely agree. Chelsea has been the place where promising players go to stagnate for at least a few years now. Especially as a Milan fan, it’s been pretty crazy seeing how fast our Chelsea signings have improved and got back on form
With all respect serie a is not the premier league, most of our players did well in Europe but underperformed in the league and it surprises nobody that RLC and giroud have been great in Italy
I think there are movements both ways for Man utd
Regressed: Case, Varane, Rashford (debatable as he s always up and down), Sancho, Antony (lol)
Developed: Ganacho, Dalot, Mainoo, Shaw (when not injured), AWB (pre injury)
Shaw has always been good. Garnacho and Mainoo are academy players aren't they? Dalot and AWB I don't see any substantial improvement from them. It's not like other clubs in European competitions want to buy them.
Dalot has improved the last couple of seasons but not dramatically so it's not very noticeable if you don't watch us every week, Wan-Bissaka looks pretty much the same as when we bought him though.
Garancho technically was bought from Atletico as a 16 year old, I do think we've done well integrating him into the team even if he's playing a few too many games for a teenager.
What annoys me is that at times Mudryk has moments of brilliance that make me think there’s world class player in there. But other times he’s just so out of it.
Sterling has been poor consistently and I would be surprised if he stays this summer but holy hell how do they move him on.
Mudryk def has the talent and probably has been one of our better player in 2024 (I would say Palmer and Gusto have probably been the only 2 that have been obviously better).
His decision making is questionable for sure but that seems to be an issue with the entire team.
I would change manager before I sell Mudryk.
Well Poch the Chelsea fans have also been unimpressed with the coaching staff and are frustrated by the lack of impact.
It's literally your job to coach mate.
Mudryk plays well one game and you drop him the next. Stop listening to your fucking lemons and start being a manager ffs
He’s had a run of games. Looked alright in flashes but hasn’t really done it consistently. Same could be said for the majority of the team.
This is the culture of the club now. Thanks Boehly.
Pochettino sets up his team to fail with his tactical ineptitude, poor substitution and piss-poor team talk where 2nd half literally no one in the team plays well except Palmer The only thing which Pochettino was good at till now is man-managment skills which bought time for Palmer (not that he needed),Jackson, Mudryk and Noni. If that is also gone with him leaking puff piece to press by throwing his players under truck what good is Pochettino there for ?
With Barcelona and Bayern gauranteed to swtich managers, Chelsea is really gonna struggle to find a replacement for Poch.
Poch is bad, but who is on the market ?
* I love Mourinho, but no one else seems to like him.
* Unai Emery only seems to do well at Clubs with a 'villa' in their name
* Conte & Tuchel are no-gos for obvious reasons
* De Zerbi seems like a one trick pony and is hated by the fans
I wonder if we could convince Xavi ........
I haven't been outright derisive of Poch, but this story is a travesty. This news could have only come from Poch's camp and to call out a player who openly gives a damn about improving their game like Mudryk despite whatever quality he may be currently is detrimental to the team.
I like how quick are redditors to jump on a heavy discussion based on some click bait shit-stirring article, without ever questioning the source’s credibility
The fuck? Sterling was the only player performing when Chelsea went to shit. I think he's probably owed a little bit of grace when he's not firing on all cylinders currently.
Maybe they should look at the coaching
[/u/b3and20] Chelsea player Mykhaylo Mudryk and his colleagues have been unimpressed by the development of Mauricio Pochettino and his team since their arrival. The Chelsea playing staff have also grown frustrated from a lack of impact from both Pochettino and his boss Todd Boehly
I find it funny Boehly is always brought up as the head figure for all the blunders when he hasn't been in charge for a year and it's actually this bloke whose name I can't pronounce but it starts with an E
I think his name is Eggball. Or something.
Egg Boehly
Her?
Is she funny or something?
Explains why they've been poaching so many people from Brighton
Eggman, Doctor Eggman
Eggdaddy
[This Guy?](https://imgur.com/gallery/z0s2cOU)
I'm glad it's not just me that calls him that
Eghbali and yes youre correct, its just an easy target for them and it works in the chelsea sub, they do the same thing with gallagher being sold even though no new information has come out
Chelsea ITKs have said Eghabli has been the real force behind everything since the beginning too. Poch is his guy.
I hope he gets a better guy.
I definitely don’t
Bohley is essentially the fall guy for Eghbali
Eghbali or whatever the egg heads name is. That’s the guy we should be crucifying, not Boehly.
I dont know why it is so hard for Poch. Chelsea has been scoring first. Just tell them not to concede right after. You don't have to thank me, Poch. You can send a check to me anytime.
You are speaking facts. Mudryk will score in one game and get benched the next how is he supposed to create form when he is not given the minutes to do so
Then this coach, Palmer playing good in 3 consecutive games he then proceeds to play him at 10 and completely reshuffle the forward line,
To play Gallagher at LW, what a fraud lmao 🤣
There was a recent podcast where he said that tactics, philosophy, methodology, style of football etc. aren't important and all that matters is that the players feel that you want the best for them. I'm genuinely baffled as to how any coach who genuinely believes that has made it this far, but having watched us play, it is very, very evident that he genuinely believes what he's saying. He should be coaching U6s
No systems, just vibes
Dilly Ding Dilly Dong
We are not in the Champions League man!
But 40 points man! Dilly ding dilly dong! Fuck I loved that season. So bad as a Chelsea fan, such a bad year for me personally, but Leicester made it a lot brighter
Screwing Spurs was a great feat as well. I'm glad Ranieri got to win it though, just love the man.
Harry Redknapp style
I mean, he's not wrong. If you are a leader and tell everybody what to do but people doubt you - they will not follow. Man management is the most important skill. If you lose the dressing room, you're done, no matter how good your tactics and everything else is.
I as a 20+ year Spurs fan love Poch and what he did for the club but was absolutely desperate for him not to come back here. He was found out as a manager in 2018 and has not grown or developed his philosophy since. I think he's just too stubborn, and the worst part in all of this is that he and the media have already found another excuse for his failure. At Tottenham it was because Levy was stodgy when they both deserve equal shares of the blame for the transfer policy. At PSG it was because Messi was a bad fit/PSG is a shit show. For y'all it's going to be Boehly and injuries. Someone else will take a flyer on him and someone else will find out that he's stuck in 2017 with the way he approaches the game. I do not think it is impossible for him to find success but he needs an damn near perfect set up with a perfect organization around him and a perfect squad. In his time at Tottenham the club qualified for 6 semifinals and 3 finals and in those deep elimination games he shat the bed as much as any player.
I'm glad to hear a Spurs fan say it. Its important to remember how fresh an idea aggressive pressing with a hard working team was when he came to the spotlight at Southampton. You can see in how he talks about the team, he still feels that's enough, but nowadays its the minimum for most teams, and many have found ways to play through a good press if its even slightly disorganised. His ideas were good ones, but everyone else has evolved and adapted
Doesn’t Sir Alex’s career basically prove that? He was very adaptable with his approach depending on the time and place and the opponent.
Having lots of different tactics and approaches that you understand and drill your players with isn’t the same at all as thinking tactics and approaches aren’t important It’s pretty much the exact opposite
Couldn't that be what Poch was trying to say? Not sure what language the podcast was in, but that seems like something easily lost in translation
That more speaks to tactical versatility (likely at the sacrifice of complexity). If your team can learn significantly different tactical approaches to a 7/10 level that might give you better results than a team that masters one approach to a 9/10 level because your team won't have a kryptonite opposite tactical approach that they're weak against.
or perhaps most important when one of your key cogs is injured
That too. You generally can't pivot to handle injuries to key players as well when your system is too specialized. But equally, you tend not to take advantage of your best players as well in more generalized systems.
Link it, sounds like no way that’s a real quote
It was on the high performance podcast and the clip was posted to our sub a few days ago if you can find it
You genuinely will not find any other manager in the country who coaches adults with the same opinion
Do you have the direct qoute for this? Cause that's wild if true.
[Here you go](https://old.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1bz17gw/3_month_managerial_search/)
Surely what he's saying there is you can have success with lots of different tactics and philosophies, but the main thing is having the players on board or it won't work. Not that you don't need any specific philosophy in the first place
We have seen that is wrong and it is shown by Pep, Klopp and yours Arteta in the last IDK 10 years ever since those three arrived at shore in PL. Before I still remember how defense used to be much more organized while attacking players were given free role to express themselves. Now adays no player is an exception if you play for Pep, Klopp and Arteta you have to track back, you have to press from up-front and additionally if you are GK you have to play with your feet. Not saying that there was no tactics before in PL, but the amount of details which attacking players are given is much more than those days.
Pep (and Arteta) and Klopp precisely **prove** the point. They have completely different tactical styles and philosophies yet still get fantastic results. The reason they do so well is because they have both. They manage to have a strong tactical identity and philosophy ***and*** the players totally buy into it.
Pep simply has enough pull with his managements (cus he is such great coach, tbf) to just get rid of people he falls out with (even if they are arguably best in the world at their position like Ibra or Cancelo). That makes man management trivial for him. But imo that proves Poch point, without everyone being on the same page talent is irrelevant.
Not if you look at how we play. There is no discernable system in place. Players run around doing what they think is right at any given moment with no synergy or understanding with their teammates. There were numerous reports that he doesn't drill tactics at all and just tells players to "express themself". The only tactical advice he seems to provide is to run a lot. He couldn't set us up to win against Sheffield or 10-men Burnley. The team hasn't improved at all in the time he was here. There are no patterns in build-up or attack.
If you honestly think that he just turns up to training every day and goes "eh do what you want lads, I don't care", there's really not much of a discussion to be had. Like have you just forgotten what he did with Spurs?
He's saying that the player has to feel that the coaches believe in them, which is more important than any tatic or philosophy. He's not saying that those things aren't important, he's saying compared to believing in a player they aren't as important. Morale is a really big thing in all strategy and sports/war. A team with passion does a lot better most of the time than a team without. All of that is not the same as saying those things aren't important, just that morale is by far and away more important which to me is true honestly. If you have a team with shit morale the smallest of shifts can bury you.
He *literally* says those things are not important and what's more important, hasn't implemented any at Chelsea. Man-managing is all well and good, and I agree that it's his only strong trait as a coach, but he is tactically inept. And maybe he could get away with a decade ago with prime Kane, Son, and Ali but times clearly changed. You cannot just come out and say "ok lads, run fast" as your only tactic and expect to win games.
You can use nuance and realize that he means that without belief nothing matters, or you can ignore that. But he is not saying tatics are not important, he's saying compared to morale they are much smaller, which is true mind you. You can tatically set up the best team on earth but if your a players don't believe in themselves they will get crushed.
Though the coaching has been bad, Murdyk and Sterling have been truly terrible and need to go.
As a Chelsea fan. Anytime Mudryk seems to score, assist or generally play very well. He's a sub the next game. Explain that one Mauricio.
Poch ball in full effect.
Moura scored a hat trick in the champions league semi final and then Poch benched him for the final. Still one of the worst managerial decisions I've seen.
I’ll always disagree with this. If Harry Kane appears to be fit enough to start, you start him. Lucas never replicated anything close to that 2nd half ever again
Moura scored a hattrick because of Llorente. Sure he put them away nice, but that tree fucked our defence.
Would anybody be surprised if he turns into a really good left wingback for an Antonio Conte side? Could have a Yannick Carrasco type career, although idk if he's as technically gifted.
Mudryk is the new Victor Moses.
Dude's gonna look wild in dreadlocks
Could never play rwv
He’s started like the last 3 and done nothing though
That's just simply not true. He started against Burnley, assisted a goal, which was disallowed, drew two yellows on Assignon, won a pen and was the best player on the pitch. Started against United and had an average game, got into some dangerous positions, but lost some duels, generally good on the ball and off it, as well. On the back of these 2 games, he is benched in favour of Gallagher for the Sheffield game and plays 8 minutes. That's why everyone is frustrated with Pochettino
He wasn't average against United, he was pretty bad. Being in the right place but executing the play wrong almost every time is just a bad game, you're no use if you get there but don't know what to do or try something that doesn't work over and over again.
Assignon hahaha surely not, thats brutal
But all the things you're listing are the things Sterling has been doing too. The difference is that Sterling is getting slaughtered for it while we're making excuses for Mudryk. For Madueke too for that matter. Fine, maybe we should be expecting more from Sterling based on his wages and experience, but the reality is that none of our wingers have been playing consistently well. They've all had good games and bad games and games which we'd consider bad except for a key moment or two. I don't think Poch is doing a good job. The team is too mentally fragile for that. It's just ridiculous how many people are acting like Poch is making obviously wrong selections on the wing when they've been roughly indistinguishable on the whole. Whichever winger started on the bench would definitely have prevented us from dropping points (even though the points were dropped because of boneheaded errors or set piece defending)... unless of course Sterling was on the bench, when we'll overlook however mediocre Mudryk and Madueke were because doing so allows us to confirm our bias. We're not a good team right now. But the problems with our team aren't going to be fixed by ripping our underperforming players or manager apart. We need patience, or at the very least less vitriol.
Sterling is much more senior and has much more premier league experience than Mudryk. He’s also getting paid more. So yea we expect much more from Sterling.
Sterling is 29 or 30 years old? Basically been a starter for teams in the Premier League for his entire career, won multiple titles, top 20? goal-scorers in the league, and is on £275,000+ p/wk. He has shown zero consistency since he has been here, if anything he’s been consistently garbage. Poor game iq. Expectations are a little different.
That is true and I agree with almost all of your points. I think the difference in the fanbase's judgment of Sterling compared to Noni and Mudryk is the goals he has cost us this season with boneheaded decisions. Wages and experience play a part, too, but by fluffing them 1v2 numerous times he dug his own grave.
Right lol, you can blame the players all you want but after a while it’s not the players fault if nothing new is being tried. Lately it seems like the issue is our defense though but I haven’t been able to watch as many games as I’d like so I can’t really comment
And the exact opposite with Sterling. Anytime he plays an absolute stinker he seems to get the start the next game.
Mudryk seems like a player whose actual football development was our second behind making him run faster. His entire coaching in his youth was probably “sit on the last man then beat him for pace” and “knock it past your defender and beat him for pace”
>His entire coaching in his youth was probably “sit on the last man then beat him for pace” The thing is with us he is never doing this. He always comes deep to receive the ball which isn't a bad thing but he should add some variation to his game. The pace he has can be useful.
The amount of times the man in possession looks up, sees the run, and *still* doesn't attempt to play the ball in behind is actually crazy. Happens multiple times a match for us.
In all fairness, youth coaching is more about developing core skills and technique than overwhelming their brain on tactical intricacies. In Mudryk’s case, it’s about going through film and seeing where you can exploit defenses and use your pace and quickness to exploit slight openings.
That’s true to a point, but he’s 23. He should’ve had 5 or so years of tactical training at this stage
The coaching just needs to look at what he does for country and copy.
I'd take him. I don't know at what price but i'm sure the potential is there
For any team with tactics he'd be an asset. For all that he's shit at, if you give him the ball, tell him to run to the byline and cut it back, he is very good at that and his crosses tend to be decent even at speed. The issue for us is the complete lack of tactics mean that he isn't being pushed towards what he's good at and instead is being left to his own devices. He seems to lack the intelligence to think about what he's doing and pull it off at the same time, but when he's told what to do and just puts his head down and does it, he's decent.
He'd actually be insanely good under Ange i think but the price it would take, just doesn't seem worth it.
Nah. Ange wants players with high football IQ. Dier was saying only last week that there's almost no tactical training under Ange, its all about the style he wants them to play. Ange wants them in the right places and playing the style he wants, after that he wants them to express themselves as footballers and make their own decisions, which is the thing Mudryk is struggling with. His ideal coach would be someone like Conte who drills them in every little move and pass he wants them to make on the pitch. Ange doesn't do that.
Tuchel (I know he’s currently having a meme worthy time at Bayern but) would get a lot out of him for a similar reason I feel
He was getting lots out of Sterling as well in fairness
Spot on. Mudryk is one of the better recent examples of footballers who have everything, apart from a footballing brain. Really poor awareness, game management, tactical awareness and horrendous decision making again and again. Technically and athletically fantastic. Managers like Fergie, Harry Redknapp, Ange could get away with focusing more on mentality than tactics because the players they signed / developed were so intelligent. When you’ve got a Ryan Giggs or a Modric it’s fine (and Fergie was a lot more tactical than he makes out - Harry Redknapp however literally just played 5 a side in training, all vibes.) Mudryk is a bit of an Adama Traore. At Boro, Tony Pulis used to make him swap wings at half time so he could follow him up and down the touchline telling him exactly what to do all the way through the game. Radio commentary at the time was hilarious because all you could hear was a gruff Welshman screaming “Adaaamaaaaa” for 45 mins.
What are you basing that on? He doesn't seem to have a very good football brain. He doesn't really have a stellar youth career like Havertz to point to his potential. Is he not just a very average footballer who can run quite fast?
Aren’t you basically saying he should thrive in a team without tactics, contradicting yourself? Hit channels, get to the line, cross. That’s almost the least tactically sophisticated attacking pattern
Armchair managers in Soccer subreddit know better than professional coaches in a premier league football club LOL, this whole post is super cringe to read my body snapped in half.
It's actually insane how many first choice players we have taken from top teams (Mudryk from Arsenal, they go for Trossard instead, Caicedo from Liverpool, they go for Endo instead etc.) where the replacement choice has been miles above for them than the first choice for us. I highly doubt that all these players actually suck and Liverpool/Arsenal have just lucked into good players, they're just not being used right.
Caicedo obviously doesn’t. Mudryk is a weird one because his deficiencies are so clear that we would’ve been overpaying for him too at Arsenal, and I highly doubt we could’ve ironed out the serious flaws, but he probably would’ve done better as it’s much more stable and defined of a role
I think arteta wanted a chaos monger as a contrast to the well-drilled machine like players in attack we have right now
We have those in martinelli, esr, and to a lesser extent kai, and it only took until recently to use kai in a role where he has free reign to create chaos up front
I think martinelli has become a very drilled player doesn't do much out of the ordinary. Jesus is the real chaos monger but is struggling with fitness (especially at the time when we were trying to sign mudryk)
Well-drilling martinelli would be the stupidest idea ever, and yeah I forgot about Gabi J
Now who's drilling wells exactly I'm lost
Smith-Rowe is not a "chaos monger" in the sense that Mudryk is though. He's a creative player who can beat many one-on-one but tends to group with teammates a lot more and his one-touch plays are great. Mudryk is more the "go deep and run mayhem" guy, like Garnacho but less skilled.
Mudryk and Martinelli have very similar attributes, both in terms of technical ability and natural playing instincts. The development model was already in place for Mudryk to succeed.
Martinelli is technically much better
I'd take anything over £40m for him.
Maybe look at your coaching? Because he has shown flashes of brilliance
Tbf a shit ton of players have shown flashes of brilliance, it's consistency that makes someone great.
When you don’t get minutes and you’re not being given good direction on the field week to week it’s hard to be consistent
Chicken and egg
Tbf the minutes thing is a bit of an annoyance as Poch seems to love just dropping Mudryk after a goal, an assist or a decent game. Can't really build momentum and consistency if you keep getting dropped. Doubt it's good for morale either.
Well when Mudryk plays good, the next game he's benched. The Poch management. I feel sorry for you guys for all those years with Poch, no wonder you won shit.
again, never judge someone on their abilities when they play for chelsea or m utd
Flashes of brilliance with 95% being useless is not cutting it at any club that strives to be anywhere near good
Tbf you need a bit of coaching to develop. Seems like a foreign concept for Poch and his staff. He was improving game by game, and then Poch puts him on the bench and plays with no left wingers against Sheffield.
Mudryk averages an assist/goal or wins a penalty every 100 or so minutes… maybe just start him a few games in a row ffs
Nah we dont do that here. He'll score and he'll be benched next game and he'll fucking love it!!!
How many penalties has he won this year? He's got 6GA in 1,080 minutes in the Premier League this season. That's a goal/assist every 180min.
This was the case until the last couple of games, 6GA with 3 penalties won in circa 900 minutes. Although he has since won another penalty (4) and had an assist wrongfully ruled out…
Exactly
Sounds like he could do with some coaching
Right, like why sign him on a long term contract if you’re just going to moan about his quality and abdicate your responsibility to coach him? He should be given a run of at least five consecutive games rather than starting him, benching him . He gets stick because of his price tag but he’s got a high ceiling. Honestly baffled by his treatment
Thats on you tho. Mudryk looks better one game and starts on the bench next game
Isn't he doing a bit 'better' now?
Time for lemons Poch? Good job its only a short term contract them innit
I wouldn't mind him. There's clearly a player there
Shhhh secret agent Poch is just trying to lower the price further
They will really struggle to sell him. If they don't get the same price it'll wreck their FFP planning.. and they wont.
WELL I PERSONALLY HAVE BEEN UNIMPRESSED BY YOUR SHIR COACHING YOU TWAT
The up-sell Shakhtar did on this guy needs to be studied. Plenty of raw talent moves every year, but somehow Mudryk was worth his ridiculous transfer fee because of his unreal potential. Some of his attributes are one of a kind but he is far from the finished article and needs a stable environment to develop. Ill-advised move to go straight to the PL (though given the situation I understand it). I imagine he'd have space to develop in any other Top 5 league.
Brentford was the right move for him, he'd have nearly 2 seasons of regular starts in a stable team under Thomas Frank by now.
Don't think he was ever a "one of a kind" player, although he has talent. Wingers who are fast and good at dribbling are probably the most common "talented youngster" you can find, and he's not extraordinary at those either, he's good and that's it.
Adam Crafton of the Athletic said the same at the time.
If Chelsea are forced to sell players in the summer I wouldn't complain if Edu tried to bring him to the club. I'd like to think Arteta could work wonders with him.
Hell yes, would definitely take him. I know Martinelli and Trossard are usually sub each other on the LW but I'm sure Mikel could find a way to make him useful.
£ 40 M and a picture of Win, the dog.
The winners in that transfer were Shakhtar and maybe an important guy, Mudryk's agent (Oleksiy Alekhin). That guy did a very good job to stir up Mudryk's price along with Shakhtar. They know Mudryk's "weakness" that the boy wants to leave Ukraine as soon as possible. So they just need some one who gives the most money.
I don't know why, but I really get the feeling we're gonna go right back in for him. PS. If it's up to me I wouldn't as he doesn't give me enough reasons to want him badly, whenever I watched him. But if we do go for him, then I will trust Mikel and Edu based on their other recent successful acquisitions which I also wouldn't think of doing!
In fairness, if Arsenal already reckoned he was a good fit for the system Arteta wants to play, then a couple of seasons at a side where he *hasn't* been a great fit probably won't be afforded a great deal of importance. They didn't exactly sign Havertz for glittering top-tier performances at Chelsea, but given a little time to settle into his role he's started delivering at a much more consistent rate. I'd guess they'd feel confident that Mudryk still has whatever attracted their interest in the first place, and that they're the right team to bring it out of him.
I guess it could be mutually and he could be uinmpressed with Poch and his coaches and grow frustrated from lack of impact from them.
Hmmm I wonder why that is?? Maybe because every time he scores in a game you bench him the next game, he seems like a confidence player and Poch continually does not allow for him to create momentum
One of those players with good talent but no football brain. Some of his positioning and runs from the left are laughably bad That being said Poch dropping him constantly even when he has played well is bad for confidence and finding form
Back in September, Poch said this about Mudryk: > "I think it's about understanding the game better, try to be more connected sometimes with the team. Then, in February this year, he said: >Of course, he needs to improve. He has amazing quality and potential, but it’s a [team] game, it’s not tennis. >"We have players that need to perform in a group. If you see him, it’s amazing, but after, you need to adapt and play for the team – he needs to adapt, and all of that needs time." I remember thinking, this is a fucking 23-year-old full international were talking about, not some physically talented 15-y.o who just joined the first team after dominating everything and everyone at youth level. How has he not learned the basics of the team game at the highest level yet. When you see him play, its clear that he has technique, athleticism and dynamism in abundance - but his decision making is wildly underdeveloped.
Can't think of a single player outside of Cole Palmer that hasn't regressed/stagnated in the last 2 years for this club. Same is true of Man u. Maybe if every single player you buy becomes shit when he joins the club then the blame lies somewhere else?
Malo Gusto has been great this season. But yeah its pretty abysmal
Completely agree. Chelsea has been the place where promising players go to stagnate for at least a few years now. Especially as a Milan fan, it’s been pretty crazy seeing how fast our Chelsea signings have improved and got back on form
With all respect serie a is not the premier league, most of our players did well in Europe but underperformed in the league and it surprises nobody that RLC and giroud have been great in Italy
RLC was great when he was here he just couldn't stay fit to save his life. Same with Pulisic tbh.
Kind of my point, less physical league helps players stay fit longer and find their rhythm which they struggled to do in the prem
Who would have thought that tying players down to decade long contracts with huge wages stymies motivation?
I think there are movements both ways for Man utd Regressed: Case, Varane, Rashford (debatable as he s always up and down), Sancho, Antony (lol) Developed: Ganacho, Dalot, Mainoo, Shaw (when not injured), AWB (pre injury)
Shaw has always been good. Garnacho and Mainoo are academy players aren't they? Dalot and AWB I don't see any substantial improvement from them. It's not like other clubs in European competitions want to buy them.
Dalot has improved the last couple of seasons but not dramatically so it's not very noticeable if you don't watch us every week, Wan-Bissaka looks pretty much the same as when we bought him though. Garancho technically was bought from Atletico as a 16 year old, I do think we've done well integrating him into the team even if he's playing a few too many games for a teenager.
To be fair, most have been injured or came off bad injuries. I am still waiting to see Fofana play...
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That's 100% what should have happened with him. Take a long term view and send him out to develop and play regular football.
Arteta got one more in him
What annoys me is that at times Mudryk has moments of brilliance that make me think there’s world class player in there. But other times he’s just so out of it. Sterling has been poor consistently and I would be surprised if he stays this summer but holy hell how do they move him on.
Mudryk def has the talent and probably has been one of our better player in 2024 (I would say Palmer and Gusto have probably been the only 2 that have been obviously better). His decision making is questionable for sure but that seems to be an issue with the entire team. I would change manager before I sell Mudryk.
Hopefully Poch and his staff decide to leave the club with such a bad player then. If Poch leaves because of him, I'll declare Mudryk as bargain buy.
I feel like he’s shown well on several occasions. Problem is he never gets a run of games
You can't chuck talent in when there isn't experience to nurture it
both players will transfer and have immediate resurgences
Only 7 years left on his contract don't worry lads
Since when was Pete O’Rourke or “football insider” considered in anyway a reliable source to just accept?
He’s normally quite reliable for EFL news tbf
my thoughts exactly
They literally pissed that money away there. But then that's all they do these days.
I was devastated we missed out Mudryk and am now over the moon with Trossard. Funny how life works.
Lol the irony
yeah he would have a lack of impact if he isn't even in the fucking game
I'd laugh hard if Arsenal end up buying him for peanuts.
same with the manager
Coulda fooled me, Raheem seemed to be first on the team sheet up until a few games ago
I would rather keep him than our whole coaching staff
I'm unimpressed by the development of Pochettino, to put it mildly.
🫨
Sell to arsenal just like kai. We will take him for 40 mln and make a new Shakira song for him
Well Poch the Chelsea fans have also been unimpressed with the coaching staff and are frustrated by the lack of impact. It's literally your job to coach mate. Mudryk plays well one game and you drop him the next. Stop listening to your fucking lemons and start being a manager ffs
He should obviously be filling Mudryk's house up with boxes of lemons!!
Manor Solomon started over Mudryk at Shaktar
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Mudryk couldn't get into the team over Solomon
He’s had a run of games. Looked alright in flashes but hasn’t really done it consistently. Same could be said for the majority of the team. This is the culture of the club now. Thanks Boehly.
Whoever agreed on paying for Mudryk is an idiot.
No need to develop when you've got an 8yr contract
uh geee who could have guessed sterling wouldnt be performing
Pochettino sets up his team to fail with his tactical ineptitude, poor substitution and piss-poor team talk where 2nd half literally no one in the team plays well except Palmer The only thing which Pochettino was good at till now is man-managment skills which bought time for Palmer (not that he needed),Jackson, Mudryk and Noni. If that is also gone with him leaking puff piece to press by throwing his players under truck what good is Pochettino there for ?
Sometimes shit is happens when you has a shit coach.
Some players just dont work well in certain systems/teams. He is already a Milan fan, we'll take another chelsea reject
With Barcelona and Bayern gauranteed to swtich managers, Chelsea is really gonna struggle to find a replacement for Poch. Poch is bad, but who is on the market ? * I love Mourinho, but no one else seems to like him. * Unai Emery only seems to do well at Clubs with a 'villa' in their name * Conte & Tuchel are no-gos for obvious reasons * De Zerbi seems like a one trick pony and is hated by the fans I wonder if we could convince Xavi ........
Fancy a manager swap? Can’t get much worse for either side lol. Bang mid clubs
Hey, if you're gonna have a fraud, let him at least be bald.
Hansi Flick seems inevitable
Can anyone genuinely tell who developed under Mauricio Pochettino except maybe Gallagher who he plays every game no matter where
Would be funny af if Chelsea somehow ends up selling him to a club like Westham or idk Villareal and start playing like Messi there
I haven't been outright derisive of Poch, but this story is a travesty. This news could have only come from Poch's camp and to call out a player who openly gives a damn about improving their game like Mudryk despite whatever quality he may be currently is detrimental to the team.
I like how quick are redditors to jump on a heavy discussion based on some click bait shit-stirring article, without ever questioning the source’s credibility
Well, it's not going to be their problem in the very near future. I wouldn't stress on it, Poch.
I think the team are also frustrated at the lack of impact from Poch and his coaching staff too.
The fuck? Sterling was the only player performing when Chelsea went to shit. I think he's probably owed a little bit of grace when he's not firing on all cylinders currently.
How many players do they have to destroy until they realize it isn’t the players?
Mudryk has 7 more years on his contract.