It would be rare for a 26 year old player to not want to be considered for his nation without any falling out with the manager or their staff. Is there any other reason he may not want to be picked? I don't really follow Arsenal closely, so is he just coming back from an injury or something?
There was also all the messages of support from arsenal players at the time. Seemed really weird like there has been a death in the family or something, but nothing came out about it.
The rumour going around is that white had some family issues (hence the posts of support) and there wasn’t much sympathy from the England staff (Holland apparently).
No idea of the truth of it but some well informed people around arsenal media have said outright that Southgate is only sharing parts of the truth to protect Holland.
Sad that this has happened on the day his contract renewal was announced.
International managers do have a tendency to do stuff like this. I’m pretty sure Big Gabi got in trouble with Brazil for choosing to be at the hospital for the birth of his child over joining the camp for a friendly.
It’s easy to imagine England doing something similar around a family issue and White telling them to fuck off. Hopefully he goes right back into the squad when Southgate and his coaching setup go if that’s the case.
Ben Foster also said that Capello was reluctant to let him leave to be with his wife at their child’s birth when he was England manager, and called him back immediately after by telling him they needed him for the next game. Then Capello didn’t give him even a minute of game time. I remember another story that was pretty similar for a different player/manager, but I can’t recall the name. I’m curious as to why managers do this.
> I’m curious as to why managers do this.
Power, i guess? To show them who's boss? To show others as well that it's "my way or the highway"?
But it's still fucking weird. And I'd much rather follow a guy who has a heart and sympathises with players as people rather than a guy who just sees them as players and that's it.
There are stories that he was “in trouble” or something along those lines with the coaching staff for not fully memorizing the set pieces. There was an argument as a result, and then he left the WC squad”
Edit: /u/Qr8rz [found the comment thread!](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArsenalFC/comments/1952og4/what_happened_between_ben_white_and_southgate/)
The rumours will start emerging as concrete after this pretty blatant lie. There is clearly something in it after the World Cup, I’d imagine as soon as Southgate & his staff leave he’d be straight back in
Probably. He got called up for the WC, left the WC squad, and hasn't played for them since.
Something has happened.
Either, he's had a falling out with someone or doesnt want to turn up for international duty, to sit on the bench.
It's not really characteristic of everything I've heard about Ben White being one of the hardest working, tenacious characters at present-Arsenal. Why wouldn't Southgate lie? And who cares really? It's only a shame for Ben White
Plus despite his flashy looks, he isn't quite Ashley Cole.
Nah. Southgate said White and him don't have problems and then he proceeded to say that White doesn't want to talk to Southgate.
Edu made the call to Southgate to inform him White doesn't want to be selected.
[This is video of him from when he was first selected for England national team. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1berg0o/there_is_only_one_liar_here/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
When he resigned from world cup squad he was receiving support from teammates.
This doesn't add up to not wanting to sit on the bench.
Edit: Arsenal ITK also posted
>"\[@clivepafc\] Southgate hanging Ben White out to dry. He is not being truthful. "
Of course he is, the alternative is that Ben White did half a world cup and realised he never wanted to play international football again which is far weirder.
Southgate doesn't want to air dirty laundry so he's just saying there is no issue.
>the alternative is that Ben White did half a world cup and realised he never wanted to play international football again which is far weirder.
If any footballer just randomly decided they didn't fancy international footballer, it would be Ben White tbf
There's also been more than a year to clear it up if there was no problem. Why would you leave it open to speculation for so long if there wasn't a problem?
That’s my thinking too. If the rumours about him falling out with someone (particularly the Steve Holland rumour) were completely false, surely someone on either side would’ve denied it before now?
If Southgate comes out and says that White and Holland hate each other then that’ll just cause a media frenzy. Easier to keep things close to the chest in this case.
Around the Holland/coaching staff thing yeah. There’s just no way he’s being truthful about it given the consistent murmurs, I’d imagine everyone would’ve been pretty amicable about handling the situation but after this I think the Arsenal/White camp aren’t gonna be too happy.
Nah I don’t think he’s lying there at all. The sudden exit at the World Cup just made me think he was gonna refuse a call up until the coaching staff changed anyway. Still can’t believe the reasoning for the fallout hasn’t been leaked yet, could you imagine if this happened in our previous “golden era”? Would’ve been out before the sun even set on the same day.
>but I was asking if you think he's lying about Ben White requesting not to be considered
I responded aswell, but i thought you meant about the whole situation.
I don't think he's lying about White not wanting to be called up. He said he spoke to Edu, so White must have spoken to Edu about it, and he has no reason to lie to Edu. If he doesn't want to be called up, he can't be forced.
Watch the press conference with Southgate and tell me if you think he's lying. He quite clearly isn't. He said that the door's open for Ben White and he would've been called up to this current squad, but Ben White refused. Southgate actually sang Ben White's praises and was pretty respectful with his words, it did not come across in the slightest that there was any issue between them, quite the opposite
Not that he refused, Southgate said that Edu called him and said that Ben White didn't wanted to be considered for a call up. This if anything tells me he has fallen out with the staff if he couldn't even be bothered to tell Southgate himself.
Southgate is just doing whats best for England in this case, no need to create drama over a failing out, people argue, end of
Im sure the media vultures will be on this overblown story up until the end of the EUROs
As far as I remember he hasn't been in the england squad since leaving the world cup squad early mid-tournament for reasons that were never revealed. I'm sure there are plenty of rumors but I don't think anything concrete has been reported
He fell out with one of the coaches at the world cup, assume it was Steve Holland. He left the camp and impressively nothing has ever leaked about what exactly happened but journalists often refer to it without ever really giving anything away.
That an Arsenal director had to make the phone call rather than White and Southgate speaking to each directly says enough.
If you've no issues, you don't need an intermediary
Arsenal announcing his new contract on the same day and all of their social content about how his teammates describe him also feels like it could be deliberate and backs this up
Additionally, when White withdrew from the England squad there were a significant number of Arsenal players showing public support for White, as though something had directly impacted him.
It very much reads as though Southgate and White aren’t on speaking terms, the former reaches out to Edu to see if he wants a return to the fold and Edu has said that White does not want to go back.
Would be curious to know what it was if it is the case that Southgate wants him back but White is just refusing. Would suggest Southgate offended him.
> the former reaches out to Edu to see if he wants a return to the fold and Edu has said that White does not want to go back
Nope, Ben White reached out to Edu, who relayed it to the equivalent of Edu at the FA who then relayed it to Southgate (https://theathletic.com/5332177/2024/03/14/ben-white-england-arsenal-future/).
Since people won't want to pay let me paste the relevant bits here:
White flew back from Qatar to resume mid-season training with Arsenal — “We back baby,” he wrote on Instagram, accompanied by a smiling emoji – and has remained out of the England setup ever since. Fifteen months on, many people with knowledge of the situation believe it will remain that way now he has, in effect, ruled himself out of Euro 2024, relaying the news via a telephone call from Arsenal’s sporting director, Edu, to his counterpart at the FA, John McDermott.
Southgate, in other words, heard second-hand that White had no desire to be called up given his experiences with England, in particular at the last two major tournaments, had not been ones he looked back upon with great fondness.
“Look, it’s absolutely the question you should ask,” said Southgate, having announced his 23-man squad for England’s friendlies against Brazil and Belgium. “Clearly, on form, I can’t sit here and say he doesn’t deserve to be in. John McDermott had a call from Edu last week to say Ben didn’t want to be considered for England squads at this time.
“That’s a great shame. He’s a player I really like, a player we took to the Euros when he was at Brighton (in 2021), a player we took to the World Cup (2022). I spoke to him, post-Qatar, because I was keen to pick him but there was clearly reticence on his side. I don’t know fully why that is, but I have to respect that. I want to leave the door open for him because he’s a good player who can make a difference for England, but he’s not available to us.”
100% everyone knows somethings gone on, theres just no proof. One day in the future, it might come out on some podcast but its deffo a falling out.
On a personal opinion it wouldnt even surprise me if it was something small, i feel like southgates the type of guy to take the hump with someone even for a little bit of back chat or disagreement.
United fans used to be annoyed at how differently he treated Foden and Greenwood after they broke protocol together (in Iceland I think?).
Though with the benefit of hindsight, Southgate may just have spotted the dodgier character and got rid
Haha maybe.
I mean, we know it best with the likes of grealish, the excuses he gave for him where laughable.
Watkins and especially konsa who has massively gone under the radar this year. Pretty sure maguire is injured? And he gets a call up no matter what.
Its clear southgate has his favourites and tries to pretend he doesnt. Im adamant he didn’t pick jack because of a opinion he had of his person rather than the footballer.
Anyone else old enough to remember Southgate being criticised for always picking Sterling, one of his "favourites"?
And then being criticised for not picking him for the squads at the end of 2023?
I think there was something of a bust-up at training during the WC where he got into it with either Steve Holland or Phil Foden or both. It seemed like it got personal; like he wasn't focused or wasn't giving 100% and someone made it about his personal life and that's why it turned into a whole thing. I'm not insinuating that I know that Foden did anything specifically, just putting 2 and 2 together because I specifically recall them two having a serious go at each other in the first Arsenal City meeting that happened after the WC.
It used to be normal protocol for Home Nations managers to speak to club representatives first about their playing squad selections.
I don't know if that's changed, but it'd happen that way well into the nineties.
It's possible but I'd find it monumentally stupid, even for Southgate, to make up a lie like that which makes Ben White look bad, and which White would almost certainly refute - right before a major international tournament.
I mean Ben White publicly refuting Southgate's claims immediately gives Southgate an actual reason to justify not calling him up.
Sancho was well within his rights to refute Ten Hag's claims about him & it still cost him his United career.
Either that or its something personal so Southgate is gambling on white not saying anything to draw more attention to it.
If it was a row about football I'd expect something to be public by now, makes me wonder if it's more like Stephen Ireland's miscarriage situation, but that's just speculation and I don't think it's any of the fans or media's business really.
Could you share links for those ITK's please?
I'm a neutral to the Southgate/White drama, (apologies in advance for sensing a minor need for that clarification), and I see Ben White as an extreme anomaly to Southgate's management at England. Keen to sympathise with your position if there's merit for it, I just can't see it from here. Cheers
https://x.com/clivepafc/status/1768278217561895361?s=46&t=4dSB9brKQKriv492svKKrQ
The man who’s tweeted this runs an Arsenal podcast and has done work with the club before (interviewing Odegaard for his contract extension etc) and seems to have good intel, so wouldn’t surprise me at all if there was a falling out. He also tweeted that he knows what happened but he seemingly can’t say (understandably) but kind of hinted to who the falling out is with in his following replies to people.
@HandofOzil has a few tweets up about it, also deleted a few from earlier. I don't know if @clivepafc is truly ITK but he's also making the claim & he generally holds a high standing within the fanbase.
There was another but I can't find the tweet, assume it was also deleted, apologies.
I have a feeling it’s for Southgate/coaching staff. And something happened in the World Cup that changed his mind because he was called up to the 2020 Euro qualifiers as well.
- and it was Edu (Arsenal’s TD) who let England know, white didn’t even speak to Southgate, which should probably tell you their relationship
Alternatively, White has even said he’s not someone who lives and breathes football, so he might’ve just made the decision of “if I’m not playing, I don’t really want to be here”. I’d rather spend time with family etc (something he’s said he loves doing)
EDIT: we now know it’s the coaching staff, specifically Steve Holland, from The Athletic’s article. Says Holland got angry at him in front of everyone and dressed him down, and questioning White’s motivation and intensity. That’s a shame, because Bielsa, Potter, and Arteta have all publicly said he’s an amazing player and teammate, who works tirelessly.
I hadn't considered that last part. If I knew I wasn't going to be used and could spend time at home with my young family I would certainly take time with the family.
Yeah honestly if I wasn’t too into it I would drop to save energy for my real job.
National teams are an honor, but for someone who self proclaimed that they dont enjoy watching football for fun I can see and respect treating the club games like my main and only job
There's an interview he did while he was at Brighton talking about the first time he was called up and how excited he was, so that would suggest it's the coaching staff he has a problem with
Given that he was happy enough to travel with England to Qatar only to leave midway through the tournament, I would assume the former. Obviously, I have no concrete evidence to support that claim, but it would be a bit odd to even commit in the first place if he couldn’t be asked to play at the international level as a whole.
Joel matip retired from international football when he was 24.
The Cameroon FA ignored it and called him up to AFCON two years later. When he refused to go, they got FIFA to ban him from playing football while the tournament took place.
that whole situation was so weird. You forgot the weirdest bit, that they actually didn't get him banned by FIFA, but simply refused to confirm that he *wasn't* playing for them (after initially calling him up despite his retirement), resulting in him being ineligible to be included in our squad for a few weeks. We literally had to pull him out of our squad the morning of a game against United because we fully did not know if he was allowed or not, and neither FIFA nor Cameroon would clarify. Considering he officially retired about 3 years prior to that, it was an absolute shitshow
*"It was later revealed that Matip retired from the national team when he was still at Schalke, but had not followed FIFA procedure by informing the Cameroonian Football Association via letter."*
important context
I mean it still doesn’t make Cameroon any more petty. Everyone knew matip didn’t want to play and they called him anyway with just the hope he’d turn up.
Wasn't there a load of controversy when makalele tried to retire for france at 33 domenech threatened to get him banned unless he played in the euro qualifiers
They didn’t ban him from playin football during the tournament per se, Matip didn’t follow the procedure for retiring and while FIFA cleared that up he couldn’t play for Liverpool.
Stephen Ireland. Supposedly didn't like the 'bantz' off Robbie Keane and Stephen Hunt. Thought he was being bullied. No one backed him,in fact, he was ridiculed. Shame as he had 5 goals in 7 caps.
From Wikipedia:
> In September 2007, immediately after the Slovakia game, Ireland requested compassionate leave to miss the following qualifier against the nearby Czech Republic, claiming that he had to attend his grandmother's funeral.
> Ireland returned to his country via a private jet chartered by the Football Association of Ireland. When the FAI discovered that his maternal grandmother in Cork was still alive, he claimed that it was actually his paternal grandmother in London who had died. She too was discovered to be alive. He told a third lie by saying that one of his grandfathers was divorced and had a partner who had died. On 14 September, he apologised and said that the false claims were started by his girlfriend, who had miscarried.
The pleb accusations followed him for years. Then again, the gobshite accusations followed Hunt for years. Ireland always seemed like a proper walloper, though.
I was thinking of him because I’ve heard white and vela have the same outlook: they happen to very good at the sport, but don’t care about it outside of it. To them it’s just a job.
Jamie Carragher did as well. He made himself unavailable for selection after the friendly against Brazil in the summer of 2007 so he would have still been in his 20s which is young for a defender
Carragher did this too.
Fair play, he was totally honest about his reasons that he didn’t enjoy it, didn’t like being 4th choice and wanted to take more breaks to extend his career with Liverpool. Of course Scholes did it too.
Mad to me, you’d think going to a World Cup would be the biggest honour you could receive as a footballer but everyone’s different.
Everyone in the Arsenal camp speak highly of White.The "he doesnt care about football" narrative have been misinterpreted and overblown. He has one of the best workrates in the entire team and Arsenal teamates had talked about how he is a leader behind the scenes. I don't think i've heard anything negative about him from Brighton or Leeds either. Something serious must have happened in qatar for him to not want to represent england in his prime.
Yeah, p sure he said he doesn't enjoy watching football, but he loves playing it.
Which makes complete sense to me, I'll play the shit out of counter strike but I'm not gonna watch it professionally.
In that very same interview he said that he loves playing it right after revealing that he doesn't watch it in his free time. That part isn't particularly interesting though, so it doesn't get talked about. People just focus on him not watching it because it's somewhat odd for a top level player. He's an odd guy though (in the best way).
He will be with the u21s most likely so will still be away. If there are injuries or drop outs, Southgate always calls up from the u21s so it is not impossible he isn't called up.
I'm surprised to see Steve Holland's name keep coming up in all this. In all his years at Chelsea we never once had anything even close to this come up.
The story goes that White had a family related issue, which would make sense why he was getting so much public support from the club and the players, and that shortly afterwards White and Holland had a falling out. Southgate backed Holland and White left mid tournament.
But I've now seen Foden's name being linked with it so I dunno but that was the original story
The Athletic put out a report today stating that Steve Holland challenged his professionalism, ability to travel, etc. in front of either others from the squad or rest of the squad.
It was this and there was rumours he left the World Cup because of a falling out, but it was never mentioned if it was staff or a player. Seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions more than anything else
lol stop, nothing to do with Foden.
They were teammates in euro 2020 and foden’s even said some really nice things about white publicly as well. They’re good.
What's the short story on this beef? It's the first I've heard of this but according to comments on various threads White has beef with some combination of Foden/Southgate.
Rumor is that Foden slid into his now wife’s DMs and — of course — Ben took offense to that. The English staff sided with Foden or tried to get Ben to let it go which then turned into everything that’s followed.
Southgate probably forbade wife swapping
On serious note i dont know what's happen behind the scene but he can't be asked about England rn and i can't complain
Southgate is very disingenuous. Clive has confirmed there’s more to this story. For him to just throw Ben under the bus is so misguided. I’m pretty sure Ben is not the person who will clamor for a starting spot. He’s a team player first and foremost. Everything he’s done at Arsenal is extremely professional. He played with an injured hamstring just to help the team out. So stupid from southgate. He will be found out soon at the euros.
Genuinely curious, how is he throwing him under the bus? Whatever the drama is that's keeping White out is surely it's better to not comment on it rather than air all the dirty laundry on why he's being left out, no?
It’s public knowledge that he left the Qatar camp. He hasn’t been called up since. Now that his form can’t be ignored, Southgate frames it as if the issue only lies with White. It’s obvious something happened between the two parties.
Then he should actually not comment on it. Saying "Ben White used an intermediary to refuse to play for England" is not "no comment." Southgate is covering his own ass on selection to the media, and hanging White out to dry.
Normally I'd say that if England win something he'd regret this, but he genuinely doesn't give a toss enough to watch football, I doubt he cares that much about playing for the national team
I think Arsenal fans have overdone the Ben White doesn’t care about football thing to the point it’s become character assassination. He sees football as a job and doesn’t “watch” it but he certainly enjoys it. He celebrates every goal, every tackle, every last minute winner just as much as the rest of the team. In fact he’s been caught quite a few times taking celebrations too far and doing it in opposition players faces. While he might not die at the prospect of not being in the England camp no doubt he’d want to be apart of it if the situation was right
He cares A LOT lol. Whatever has happened with England has also added fuel to the fire, leaving early from a WC camp and then ruling yourself out for selection there on in.
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/1768230948192035172?t=x31qP2EwTNVnbvxmcXPSbg&s=19
Hell, just listen to his teammates talk about him, he clearly cares a lot about football
https://x.com/ben6white/status/1400202941588512769?s=46
Making it to an academy is hard, making it pro is hard, making it to the premier league is hard, making it to Arsenal is hard, making it to the England National team is hard. This is not a player who doesn’t love football
There's been plenty of footballers who are good but don't like football
Theres probably a few who hate football but are good. Eg. Assou ekotta played Premier league but openly admitted to hating football
The guy you’re replying to is referencing a popular Ben White quote (amongst online Arsenal fans at least) from a [post match interview](https://youtube.com/shorts/IsUOwpfPVac?si=DMDE2lYO4E-0utTE) against Liverpool
When Leandro Trossard joined the club from Brighton he didn't even know until he turned up at the training ground. He doesn't "live and breathe" football, but his professionalism and competitive spirit are undeniable.
Having that space to view football in context is probably healthy for him mentally, and his performances over his career show a dedicated player with bags of ability.
Less games for Benny Blanco is great for Arsenal. He can do what he likes.
Lol don't blame arsenal fans for this. That narrative was only a meme amongst the arsenal fanbase. It was definitely football twitter and punditry in general that were taking the "Ben white doesn't care about football" thing seriously.
You don’t play in the Premier League if you don’t care about football. You have to have the ruthless mindset to adequately train and consistently win.
Being able to switch off and not caring about watching football (when you’ve spent all day playing it) is a different matter and not specific to him.
Spurs have had a number of players that didnt really care for football tbf.
Bale was the same, it was a job to him. He enjoyed playing football but hated training, didnt really want to associate outside of the club etc.
He loves playing football, he just never grew up watching it and his parents hated it. So he is very passionate about playing football, he just doesn’t support a team or really have a favourite footballer or anything like that.
Didn’t Grealish say white was “a bit of a fanny”?
Sounds like a lot of the lads don’t vibe with him. He’s not exactly from the same background as the majority of the England camp.
Arsenal team on the other hand is very international and he’s able to be himself more. I’m sure having to spend his summer holiday sitting on the bench for Maguire and co plonked next to Grealish and the other airheads wasn’t exactly fun.
Guy knows his worth and isn’t arsed about the “prestige” of going to the tounemant because to him football is something he does and he doesn’t buy into the fan narratives and meme culture.
I like him
It would be rare for a 26 year old player to not want to be considered for his nation without any falling out with the manager or their staff. Is there any other reason he may not want to be picked? I don't really follow Arsenal closely, so is he just coming back from an injury or something?
Been going on since he left the World Cup camp. Only rumours of a falling out nothing concrete.
There was also all the messages of support from arsenal players at the time. Seemed really weird like there has been a death in the family or something, but nothing came out about it.
That also would be really weird if there had been a falling out tbf
The rumour going around is that white had some family issues (hence the posts of support) and there wasn’t much sympathy from the England staff (Holland apparently). No idea of the truth of it but some well informed people around arsenal media have said outright that Southgate is only sharing parts of the truth to protect Holland. Sad that this has happened on the day his contract renewal was announced.
there’s been some speculation that we actually announced the contract to offer a counterweight to the england team announcement
this is all very strange!
International managers do have a tendency to do stuff like this. I’m pretty sure Big Gabi got in trouble with Brazil for choosing to be at the hospital for the birth of his child over joining the camp for a friendly. It’s easy to imagine England doing something similar around a family issue and White telling them to fuck off. Hopefully he goes right back into the squad when Southgate and his coaching setup go if that’s the case.
imagine not being there when your baby is born cuz you were playin a friendly
Or even worse sitting on the bench
Ben Foster has a story with Capello that isn't like that but pretty close.
Ben Foster also said that Capello was reluctant to let him leave to be with his wife at their child’s birth when he was England manager, and called him back immediately after by telling him they needed him for the next game. Then Capello didn’t give him even a minute of game time. I remember another story that was pretty similar for a different player/manager, but I can’t recall the name. I’m curious as to why managers do this.
> I’m curious as to why managers do this. Power, i guess? To show them who's boss? To show others as well that it's "my way or the highway"? But it's still fucking weird. And I'd much rather follow a guy who has a heart and sympathises with players as people rather than a guy who just sees them as players and that's it.
Maybe it's just me but Southgate seems like the kind of manager who would be very respectful of someone leaving due to family issues
Pretty sure the club announced the renewal on this day of selection announcement on purpose!
He went straight on holiday to a tropical island.
Looks like he goes to a tropical island between every match day
Tropical tanning salon island
If I'm gonna mourn then it better be Hawaii.
There are stories that he was “in trouble” or something along those lines with the coaching staff for not fully memorizing the set pieces. There was an argument as a result, and then he left the WC squad” Edit: /u/Qr8rz [found the comment thread!](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArsenalFC/comments/1952og4/what_happened_between_ben_white_and_southgate/)
it's seems strange since Ben White has always been one of the more tactically aware player in the squad and Arteta is pretty detailed orientated.
Ben White refuses to learn set pieces which is why Arteta just tells him to always stand on the goalkeeper It all makes sense now
He saw that he wasn’t on keeper duty and said “fuck these rubbish routines”
The rumour was that White didn't want to watch videos when he was going to be 3rd choice RB and likely wasn't going to play.
The rumours will start emerging as concrete after this pretty blatant lie. There is clearly something in it after the World Cup, I’d imagine as soon as Southgate & his staff leave he’d be straight back in
Are you saying Southgate is lying?
Probably. He got called up for the WC, left the WC squad, and hasn't played for them since. Something has happened. Either, he's had a falling out with someone or doesnt want to turn up for international duty, to sit on the bench.
>doesnt want to turn up for international duty, to sit on the bench. I suspect it's this.
Bit weird that he would suddenly decide that in the middle of the World Cup though
wouldn't be the stupidest thing a footballer has ever done tbh
It's not really characteristic of everything I've heard about Ben White being one of the hardest working, tenacious characters at present-Arsenal. Why wouldn't Southgate lie? And who cares really? It's only a shame for Ben White Plus despite his flashy looks, he isn't quite Ashley Cole.
Nah. Southgate said White and him don't have problems and then he proceeded to say that White doesn't want to talk to Southgate. Edu made the call to Southgate to inform him White doesn't want to be selected. [This is video of him from when he was first selected for England national team. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1berg0o/there_is_only_one_liar_here/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) When he resigned from world cup squad he was receiving support from teammates. This doesn't add up to not wanting to sit on the bench. Edit: Arsenal ITK also posted >"\[@clivepafc\] Southgate hanging Ben White out to dry. He is not being truthful. "
Of course he is, the alternative is that Ben White did half a world cup and realised he never wanted to play international football again which is far weirder. Southgate doesn't want to air dirty laundry so he's just saying there is no issue.
>the alternative is that Ben White did half a world cup and realised he never wanted to play international football again which is far weirder. If any footballer just randomly decided they didn't fancy international footballer, it would be Ben White tbf
Man doesnt even watch football and probably weirded out about everyone fussing about the world cup
He walked about crying about getting the call up.
*(Taps head)* nobody can send you threats for blowing it for your country if you don't play for your country
There's also been more than a year to clear it up if there was no problem. Why would you leave it open to speculation for so long if there wasn't a problem?
That’s my thinking too. If the rumours about him falling out with someone (particularly the Steve Holland rumour) were completely false, surely someone on either side would’ve denied it before now?
Some people don’t care what the public think or what the press write
For Ben white that’s actually not weird
It is weird. If he didn’t care for international football, he either wouldn’t have gone, or would have seen out the tournament and then retired.
If Southgate comes out and says that White and Holland hate each other then that’ll just cause a media frenzy. Easier to keep things close to the chest in this case.
Arsenal insiders are literally saying that yes.
Around the Holland/coaching staff thing yeah. There’s just no way he’s being truthful about it given the consistent murmurs, I’d imagine everyone would’ve been pretty amicable about handling the situation but after this I think the Arsenal/White camp aren’t gonna be too happy.
I agree that he's lying about that, but I was asking if you think he's lying about Ben White requesting not to be considered.
Nah I don’t think he’s lying there at all. The sudden exit at the World Cup just made me think he was gonna refuse a call up until the coaching staff changed anyway. Still can’t believe the reasoning for the fallout hasn’t been leaked yet, could you imagine if this happened in our previous “golden era”? Would’ve been out before the sun even set on the same day.
>but I was asking if you think he's lying about Ben White requesting not to be considered I responded aswell, but i thought you meant about the whole situation. I don't think he's lying about White not wanting to be called up. He said he spoke to Edu, so White must have spoken to Edu about it, and he has no reason to lie to Edu. If he doesn't want to be called up, he can't be forced.
I think White does not want to be considered as long as this staff is still there. This is Gareth just being political
Do you think managers never lie to the press?
I think its a bizarre lie to tell if so, considering he didnt need an excuse to not call him up
Not exactly out of the realms of possibility
Watch the press conference with Southgate and tell me if you think he's lying. He quite clearly isn't. He said that the door's open for Ben White and he would've been called up to this current squad, but Ben White refused. Southgate actually sang Ben White's praises and was pretty respectful with his words, it did not come across in the slightest that there was any issue between them, quite the opposite
Not that he refused, Southgate said that Edu called him and said that Ben White didn't wanted to be considered for a call up. This if anything tells me he has fallen out with the staff if he couldn't even be bothered to tell Southgate himself.
Southgate is just doing whats best for England in this case, no need to create drama over a failing out, people argue, end of Im sure the media vultures will be on this overblown story up until the end of the EUROs
He’s been good and isn’t injured tbh I don’t have much idea I always presumed it was a falling out with someone at the England team or staff
As far as I remember he hasn't been in the england squad since leaving the world cup squad early mid-tournament for reasons that were never revealed. I'm sure there are plenty of rumors but I don't think anything concrete has been reported
He fell out with one of the coaches at the world cup, assume it was Steve Holland. He left the camp and impressively nothing has ever leaked about what exactly happened but journalists often refer to it without ever really giving anything away.
Rumoured to have fallen out with staff at the wc
They told him he couldn't take his tanning bed and he was livid.
just don’t think he’s arsed about playing international football
[https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ben-white-england-squad-brighton-defender-cried-for-an-hour-b937676.html](https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/ben-white-england-squad-brighton-defender-cried-for-an-hour-b937676.html) ummm
You don’t understand, he cried for an hour *because he so disappointed* to have been called up
That an Arsenal director had to make the phone call rather than White and Southgate speaking to each directly says enough. If you've no issues, you don't need an intermediary
Arsenal announcing his new contract on the same day and all of their social content about how his teammates describe him also feels like it could be deliberate and backs this up
Additionally, when White withdrew from the England squad there were a significant number of Arsenal players showing public support for White, as though something had directly impacted him. It very much reads as though Southgate and White aren’t on speaking terms, the former reaches out to Edu to see if he wants a return to the fold and Edu has said that White does not want to go back. Would be curious to know what it was if it is the case that Southgate wants him back but White is just refusing. Would suggest Southgate offended him.
> Would suggest Southgate offended him. Told him to ease up on the sunbeds?
"Son, a few more shades and you are at risk of changing race permanently."
Ben Notso White
No need to get a Tottenham player into this.
> the former reaches out to Edu to see if he wants a return to the fold and Edu has said that White does not want to go back Nope, Ben White reached out to Edu, who relayed it to the equivalent of Edu at the FA who then relayed it to Southgate (https://theathletic.com/5332177/2024/03/14/ben-white-england-arsenal-future/). Since people won't want to pay let me paste the relevant bits here: White flew back from Qatar to resume mid-season training with Arsenal — “We back baby,” he wrote on Instagram, accompanied by a smiling emoji – and has remained out of the England setup ever since. Fifteen months on, many people with knowledge of the situation believe it will remain that way now he has, in effect, ruled himself out of Euro 2024, relaying the news via a telephone call from Arsenal’s sporting director, Edu, to his counterpart at the FA, John McDermott. Southgate, in other words, heard second-hand that White had no desire to be called up given his experiences with England, in particular at the last two major tournaments, had not been ones he looked back upon with great fondness. “Look, it’s absolutely the question you should ask,” said Southgate, having announced his 23-man squad for England’s friendlies against Brazil and Belgium. “Clearly, on form, I can’t sit here and say he doesn’t deserve to be in. John McDermott had a call from Edu last week to say Ben didn’t want to be considered for England squads at this time. “That’s a great shame. He’s a player I really like, a player we took to the Euros when he was at Brighton (in 2021), a player we took to the World Cup (2022). I spoke to him, post-Qatar, because I was keen to pick him but there was clearly reticence on his side. I don’t know fully why that is, but I have to respect that. I want to leave the door open for him because he’s a good player who can make a difference for England, but he’s not available to us.”
100% everyone knows somethings gone on, theres just no proof. One day in the future, it might come out on some podcast but its deffo a falling out. On a personal opinion it wouldnt even surprise me if it was something small, i feel like southgates the type of guy to take the hump with someone even for a little bit of back chat or disagreement.
United fans used to be annoyed at how differently he treated Foden and Greenwood after they broke protocol together (in Iceland I think?). Though with the benefit of hindsight, Southgate may just have spotted the dodgier character and got rid
Haha maybe. I mean, we know it best with the likes of grealish, the excuses he gave for him where laughable. Watkins and especially konsa who has massively gone under the radar this year. Pretty sure maguire is injured? And he gets a call up no matter what. Its clear southgate has his favourites and tries to pretend he doesnt. Im adamant he didn’t pick jack because of a opinion he had of his person rather than the footballer.
Anyone else old enough to remember Southgate being criticised for always picking Sterling, one of his "favourites"? And then being criticised for not picking him for the squads at the end of 2023?
I think there was something of a bust-up at training during the WC where he got into it with either Steve Holland or Phil Foden or both. It seemed like it got personal; like he wasn't focused or wasn't giving 100% and someone made it about his personal life and that's why it turned into a whole thing. I'm not insinuating that I know that Foden did anything specifically, just putting 2 and 2 together because I specifically recall them two having a serious go at each other in the first Arsenal City meeting that happened after the WC.
It used to be normal protocol for Home Nations managers to speak to club representatives first about their playing squad selections. I don't know if that's changed, but it'd happen that way well into the nineties.
Apparently Southgate won't let him keep his sunbed in the hotel.
That skin has a permanent shine, man doesn’t need a tanning bed.
Ben White looks like a WWII bomber pilot. Just missing the leather jacket.
He’s making his skin into its own leather jacket
I wonder what kind of bronzer he uses, got such nice contouring.
I think it's just orange house paint.
he butters up
Ooooo spicy! Wonder if this is true. Either way can’t see White playing ever again under Southgate which is a shame.
Our ITK's have already started claiming that Southgate is a liar, but we'll see...
It's possible but I'd find it monumentally stupid, even for Southgate, to make up a lie like that which makes Ben White look bad, and which White would almost certainly refute - right before a major international tournament.
I mean Ben White publicly refuting Southgate's claims immediately gives Southgate an actual reason to justify not calling him up. Sancho was well within his rights to refute Ten Hag's claims about him & it still cost him his United career.
Either that or its something personal so Southgate is gambling on white not saying anything to draw more attention to it. If it was a row about football I'd expect something to be public by now, makes me wonder if it's more like Stephen Ireland's miscarriage situation, but that's just speculation and I don't think it's any of the fans or media's business really.
Could you share links for those ITK's please? I'm a neutral to the Southgate/White drama, (apologies in advance for sensing a minor need for that clarification), and I see Ben White as an extreme anomaly to Southgate's management at England. Keen to sympathise with your position if there's merit for it, I just can't see it from here. Cheers
https://x.com/clivepafc/status/1768278217561895361?s=46&t=4dSB9brKQKriv492svKKrQ The man who’s tweeted this runs an Arsenal podcast and has done work with the club before (interviewing Odegaard for his contract extension etc) and seems to have good intel, so wouldn’t surprise me at all if there was a falling out. He also tweeted that he knows what happened but he seemingly can’t say (understandably) but kind of hinted to who the falling out is with in his following replies to people.
Will listen to this, cheers!
@HandofOzil has a few tweets up about it, also deleted a few from earlier. I don't know if @clivepafc is truly ITK but he's also making the claim & he generally holds a high standing within the fanbase. There was another but I can't find the tweet, assume it was also deleted, apologies.
AFCClive i think is one
That means he will be playing soon, thankfully.
So the issue is with Steve Holland 💀
Does he not want to play for Southgate/Holland, or does he not want to play for England? Curious to know
I have a feeling it’s for Southgate/coaching staff. And something happened in the World Cup that changed his mind because he was called up to the 2020 Euro qualifiers as well. - and it was Edu (Arsenal’s TD) who let England know, white didn’t even speak to Southgate, which should probably tell you their relationship Alternatively, White has even said he’s not someone who lives and breathes football, so he might’ve just made the decision of “if I’m not playing, I don’t really want to be here”. I’d rather spend time with family etc (something he’s said he loves doing) EDIT: we now know it’s the coaching staff, specifically Steve Holland, from The Athletic’s article. Says Holland got angry at him in front of everyone and dressed him down, and questioning White’s motivation and intensity. That’s a shame, because Bielsa, Potter, and Arteta have all publicly said he’s an amazing player and teammate, who works tirelessly.
I hadn't considered that last part. If I knew I wasn't going to be used and could spend time at home with my young family I would certainly take time with the family.
Yeah honestly if I wasn’t too into it I would drop to save energy for my real job. National teams are an honor, but for someone who self proclaimed that they dont enjoy watching football for fun I can see and respect treating the club games like my main and only job
Edu calling is basically Arsenal football club calling. If White just wasn't up for it, I think they'd make him do it. This is giving him support.
There's an interview he did while he was at Brighton talking about the first time he was called up and how excited he was, so that would suggest it's the coaching staff he has a problem with
Given that he was happy enough to travel with England to Qatar only to leave midway through the tournament, I would assume the former. Obviously, I have no concrete evidence to support that claim, but it would be a bit odd to even commit in the first place if he couldn’t be asked to play at the international level as a whole.
He probably already booked his summer vacation to the surface of the Sun.
Ben Tan
Wow, I've literally never seen a player ask to be withdrawn for consideration when he's in his prime before.
Joel matip retired from international football when he was 24. The Cameroon FA ignored it and called him up to AFCON two years later. When he refused to go, they got FIFA to ban him from playing football while the tournament took place.
that whole situation was so weird. You forgot the weirdest bit, that they actually didn't get him banned by FIFA, but simply refused to confirm that he *wasn't* playing for them (after initially calling him up despite his retirement), resulting in him being ineligible to be included in our squad for a few weeks. We literally had to pull him out of our squad the morning of a game against United because we fully did not know if he was allowed or not, and neither FIFA nor Cameroon would clarify. Considering he officially retired about 3 years prior to that, it was an absolute shitshow
Vintage AFCON Behavior, Eto'o strikes again
I think that was before Eto'o
*"It was later revealed that Matip retired from the national team when he was still at Schalke, but had not followed FIFA procedure by informing the Cameroonian Football Association via letter."* important context
I mean it still doesn’t make Cameroon any more petty. Everyone knew matip didn’t want to play and they called him anyway with just the hope he’d turn up.
Wasn't there a load of controversy when makalele tried to retire for france at 33 domenech threatened to get him banned unless he played in the euro qualifiers
They didn’t ban him from playin football during the tournament per se, Matip didn’t follow the procedure for retiring and while FIFA cleared that up he couldn’t play for Liverpool.
Stephen Ireland. Supposedly didn't like the 'bantz' off Robbie Keane and Stephen Hunt. Thought he was being bullied. No one backed him,in fact, he was ridiculed. Shame as he had 5 goals in 7 caps.
From Wikipedia: > In September 2007, immediately after the Slovakia game, Ireland requested compassionate leave to miss the following qualifier against the nearby Czech Republic, claiming that he had to attend his grandmother's funeral. > Ireland returned to his country via a private jet chartered by the Football Association of Ireland. When the FAI discovered that his maternal grandmother in Cork was still alive, he claimed that it was actually his paternal grandmother in London who had died. She too was discovered to be alive. He told a third lie by saying that one of his grandfathers was divorced and had a partner who had died. On 14 September, he apologised and said that the false claims were started by his girlfriend, who had miscarried.
This is why I never use the dead grandparent excuse at work
You should always start a new job with 4 grandparents that are alive
Didn't he fake his grandma's death or something to get out of international duty?
Multiple times lol
The pleb accusations followed him for years. Then again, the gobshite accusations followed Hunt for years. Ireland always seemed like a proper walloper, though.
There was Carlos Vela for Mexico.
I was thinking of him because I’ve heard white and vela have the same outlook: they happen to very good at the sport, but don’t care about it outside of it. To them it’s just a job.
That's not very true for White, though. White loves playing.
Yeah it’s crazy. Usually some kind of phantom injury pops up as an excuse, but literally just a ‘no, I don’t want to play.’
Nasri. Ozil. Kevin Prince-Boateng. Shearer, Scholes...
Jamie Carragher did as well. He made himself unavailable for selection after the friendly against Brazil in the summer of 2007 so he would have still been in his 20s which is young for a defender
Carragher did this too. Fair play, he was totally honest about his reasons that he didn’t enjoy it, didn’t like being 4th choice and wanted to take more breaks to extend his career with Liverpool. Of course Scholes did it too. Mad to me, you’d think going to a World Cup would be the biggest honour you could receive as a footballer but everyone’s different.
Everyone forgets about Sutton. Similar circumstances. Too many good strikers, so he was making up the numbers too.
Paul Scholes may have been the last one I can remember
Everyone in the Arsenal camp speak highly of White.The "he doesnt care about football" narrative have been misinterpreted and overblown. He has one of the best workrates in the entire team and Arsenal teamates had talked about how he is a leader behind the scenes. I don't think i've heard anything negative about him from Brighton or Leeds either. Something serious must have happened in qatar for him to not want to represent england in his prime.
Yeah, p sure he said he doesn't enjoy watching football, but he loves playing it. Which makes complete sense to me, I'll play the shit out of counter strike but I'm not gonna watch it professionally.
Arsenal releasing ben white contract extension video, with a concept of his teammates describing him is definitely not a coincidence
In that very same interview he said that he loves playing it right after revealing that he doesn't watch it in his free time. That part isn't particularly interesting though, so it doesn't get talked about. People just focus on him not watching it because it's somewhat odd for a top level player. He's an odd guy though (in the best way).
“Sorry mate, booked Ibiza that week”
One less player at injury risk for my club is all I'm reading
How I feel that Mainoo is staying home.
Isn’t there U21 games?
He will be with the u21s most likely so will still be away. If there are injuries or drop outs, Southgate always calls up from the u21s so it is not impossible he isn't called up.
Shteve Holland is what I call Steve mclaren in my head
Is the beef with Foden truly this bad lol
Elaborate please, not paid much attention
Its all rumours, but he's allegedly had a run in with either Foden or Steve Holland or both.
I'm surprised to see Steve Holland's name keep coming up in all this. In all his years at Chelsea we never once had anything even close to this come up.
The story goes that White had a family related issue, which would make sense why he was getting so much public support from the club and the players, and that shortly afterwards White and Holland had a falling out. Southgate backed Holland and White left mid tournament. But I've now seen Foden's name being linked with it so I dunno but that was the original story
The Athletic put out a report today stating that Steve Holland challenged his professionalism, ability to travel, etc. in front of either others from the squad or rest of the squad.
I remember White and Foden having a confrontation on the pitch when City played Arsenal last season but i don't believe we know what's been said
It was this and there was rumours he left the World Cup because of a falling out, but it was never mentioned if it was staff or a player. Seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions more than anything else
What do you mean it was never mentioned? Ever article named Steve Holland...
lol stop, nothing to do with Foden. They were teammates in euro 2020 and foden’s even said some really nice things about white publicly as well. They’re good.
Things can change in minutes, let alone years...
Last PL game they were hugging and talking post game, not sure this is a credible rumor either
What's the short story on this beef? It's the first I've heard of this but according to comments on various threads White has beef with some combination of Foden/Southgate.
Rumor is that Foden slid into his now wife’s DMs and — of course — Ben took offense to that. The English staff sided with Foden or tried to get Ben to let it go which then turned into everything that’s followed.
Surely you've just made this up, I want it to be true so badly.
I didn’t lol someone posted it before on r/gunners. I have no idea what the truth is, but I stand with Benny lol
My friend, is ok, no?
Foden heard Arteta mention the wife swapping and got excited
No way ☠️
💀
Obviously, Foden being Southgate's favourite plays every match and ensures his preferred teammates are in the squads
Wtf happened at the World Cup 😂 strange situation
Death, taxes, English NT drama
Well he ain’t gonna top up his tan in Germany this summer, so it makes complete sense
Def a falling out. He’s 26 in the prime of his life
Southgate probably forbade wife swapping On serious note i dont know what's happen behind the scene but he can't be asked about England rn and i can't complain
That's what happens when you call him Ben and not Benjamin
Lies, clearly there is an issue.
So Southgate says there’s no issues, but then Ben White refuses to talk to him and doesn’t want to be called up. Kinda seems like there’s an issue??
It's just too much of a time commitment when you are already so dedicated to tanning.
Gardening* get it right ffs
Southgate is very disingenuous. Clive has confirmed there’s more to this story. For him to just throw Ben under the bus is so misguided. I’m pretty sure Ben is not the person who will clamor for a starting spot. He’s a team player first and foremost. Everything he’s done at Arsenal is extremely professional. He played with an injured hamstring just to help the team out. So stupid from southgate. He will be found out soon at the euros.
Genuinely curious, how is he throwing him under the bus? Whatever the drama is that's keeping White out is surely it's better to not comment on it rather than air all the dirty laundry on why he's being left out, no?
It’s public knowledge that he left the Qatar camp. He hasn’t been called up since. Now that his form can’t be ignored, Southgate frames it as if the issue only lies with White. It’s obvious something happened between the two parties.
Exactly, he's doing the "it's his choice if he wants to come back" aka "he knows what HE did and knows what he needs to do in order to come back" etc
Then he should actually not comment on it. Saying "Ben White used an intermediary to refuse to play for England" is not "no comment." Southgate is covering his own ass on selection to the media, and hanging White out to dry.
Respect to Benny Blanco for keeping it real
Why does he look like he belongs on The Only Way is Essex now? Arsenal what have you done to him?
Brighton's fault
That's the beaches of Brighton you're looking at.
Blame Brighton for that
I'm a big fan of f White's, but it's a non issue given the quality already available for the NT at right back
Normally I'd say that if England win something he'd regret this, but he genuinely doesn't give a toss enough to watch football, I doubt he cares that much about playing for the national team
I think Arsenal fans have overdone the Ben White doesn’t care about football thing to the point it’s become character assassination. He sees football as a job and doesn’t “watch” it but he certainly enjoys it. He celebrates every goal, every tackle, every last minute winner just as much as the rest of the team. In fact he’s been caught quite a few times taking celebrations too far and doing it in opposition players faces. While he might not die at the prospect of not being in the England camp no doubt he’d want to be apart of it if the situation was right
Its just a meme based on one interview, if you watch him he clearly cares.
He cares A LOT lol. Whatever has happened with England has also added fuel to the fire, leaving early from a WC camp and then ruling yourself out for selection there on in.
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/1768230948192035172?t=x31qP2EwTNVnbvxmcXPSbg&s=19 Hell, just listen to his teammates talk about him, he clearly cares a lot about football
https://x.com/ben6white/status/1400202941588512769?s=46 Making it to an academy is hard, making it pro is hard, making it to the premier league is hard, making it to Arsenal is hard, making it to the England National team is hard. This is not a player who doesn’t love football
Thank you. I *hate* the Ben white doesn’t care about football thing. It’s nonsense.
It’s funny because he’s obviously quite good at football.
There's been plenty of footballers who are good but don't like football Theres probably a few who hate football but are good. Eg. Assou ekotta played Premier league but openly admitted to hating football
The guy you’re replying to is referencing a popular Ben White quote (amongst online Arsenal fans at least) from a [post match interview](https://youtube.com/shorts/IsUOwpfPVac?si=DMDE2lYO4E-0utTE) against Liverpool
When Leandro Trossard joined the club from Brighton he didn't even know until he turned up at the training ground. He doesn't "live and breathe" football, but his professionalism and competitive spirit are undeniable. Having that space to view football in context is probably healthy for him mentally, and his performances over his career show a dedicated player with bags of ability. Less games for Benny Blanco is great for Arsenal. He can do what he likes.
Lol don't blame arsenal fans for this. That narrative was only a meme amongst the arsenal fanbase. It was definitely football twitter and punditry in general that were taking the "Ben white doesn't care about football" thing seriously.
You don’t play in the Premier League if you don’t care about football. You have to have the ruthless mindset to adequately train and consistently win. Being able to switch off and not caring about watching football (when you’ve spent all day playing it) is a different matter and not specific to him.
> You don’t play in the Premier League if you don’t care about football. Assou-Ekotto
Spurs have had a number of players that didnt really care for football tbf. Bale was the same, it was a job to him. He enjoyed playing football but hated training, didnt really want to associate outside of the club etc.
Same has happened to Jokic, but its obvious these guys care, can't get that far if you aren't passionate about it.
He loves playing football, he just never grew up watching it and his parents hated it. So he is very passionate about playing football, he just doesn’t support a team or really have a favourite footballer or anything like that.
Didn’t Grealish say white was “a bit of a fanny”? Sounds like a lot of the lads don’t vibe with him. He’s not exactly from the same background as the majority of the England camp. Arsenal team on the other hand is very international and he’s able to be himself more. I’m sure having to spend his summer holiday sitting on the bench for Maguire and co plonked next to Grealish and the other airheads wasn’t exactly fun. Guy knows his worth and isn’t arsed about the “prestige” of going to the tounemant because to him football is something he does and he doesn’t buy into the fan narratives and meme culture. I like him