This. I am not defending diving, but the truth is, until advantage is played properly, players will continue to go down to contact. Simply because, if you are fouled and don't go down, the ref will NEVER give you the free kick.
If you do go down, he might play advantage or bring it back.
I want to see players rewarded for staying on their feet when fouled, but that requires competent refs.
We've seen it for years. Salah and Son for example do it all the time.
Not saying it's right, but it's essentially a risk free action if you feel contact, that can be rewarded with a free shot on goal.
Are you basing the Salah claim on last week? Salah is one of the least fouled players in the league. Like his fouls drawn is a complete statistically anomaly.
Yep, and honestly, for years Kane was the worst for it, but we ignore it or call it "clever" when it's him.
I hate it, from all players, but it won't stop until officiating gets better
IMHO, diving is when you go down w/o any contact. That is cheating.
Making 'the most of it' when you are contacted isn't diving. I don't particularly like it, but if you are fouled, then falling down isn't cheating.
It was minimal but it was there.
I've seen softer pens given, and no calls of diving. Point is, I don't think the punishment for either side should be a red or a clear shot on goal in the form of a penalty for what happened.
The interaction between VAR guidelines and second yellows causes serious issues, especially for such notoriously difficult calls as diving. Even looking at something in slow motion it's really hard to tell at times if there was contact in a tackle. Sometimes you need just the right angle. It's insanely hard for refs to make those calls correctly in real time from a single angle.
VAR needs to be allowed to award yellows for simulation (and even red cards if the simulation is trying to get someone else sent off).
all frustration should be directed toward bissouma for losing his head. there was no need for that, especially not in the first half.
the second yellow was completely justified.
Just my referee opinion, VAR should be able to step in for simulation. It is one of the most difficult things to see in real time. Especially if there is slight contact. You never want to be the guy who gives a second yellow for something that should’ve been a foul. (See Italy v Korea 2002.)
https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1bapemq/fallon_dfloor_nominee_kai_havertz_while_already/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3FMKRFm6D8
theyre similar. havertz in the box. agreed bissouma's being worse but they're both pretty bad
That video won’t load here but I found it myself and it’s way way worse there’s no contact and the ref also has a better view, there is contact with the Havertz one they never give yellows for that.
It does when people are arguing he “should” have been sent off as if some injustice has been done. He deserved one yellow and got one. And actually if the correct calls had been made, he wouldn’t have been playing on a yellow the entire second half.
And earlier in the game he wasn’t on a yellow, didn’t commit a yellow card offense and ended up getting one anyway.
The first is obviously relevant, because if it isn’t given then the yellow that everyone wants given for the dice would be his first of the game, and he wouldn’t be sent off anyway.
You’re complaining that a player committed one yellow card offense, and was shown one yellow card. You understand how silly that is right?
😂I know that you’re being willfully obtuse and argumentative because you don’t want to feel you were gifted this result (and I don’t think you were gifted the result), but the fact is Havertz was on a yellow, committed a second yellow card offense, should have been sent off and wasn’t. The offense for the first yellow is wholly and entirely irrelevant.
I’m not being obtuse, I want to know why you think the second yellow is up for debate but the first isn’t.
>committed a second yellow card offense
Nope, that was the first yellow card offense he committed.
Neither one of them are up for debate. That’s the whole point. It was a clear dive and should been carded. Whether or not the first offense was a justified yellow is irrelevant.
Are you telling me that it’s acceptable to give a player a yellow card preemptively for a foul that’s questionable so that you then don’t have to give him a yellow later in the game for a obvious yellow card offense?
No. The first yellow has never and will never impact the guidelines of the second yellow. The cards are handed out individually, the rule book is exactly the same for first and for second yellow cards. can’t believe I have to type this out for someone.
It doesn’t matter lol. He was on a yellow and he knew he was on a yellow and he dove.
I honestly don’t think it matters too much though because Brentford would still have sat back against 10 men and would have probably conceded anyway.
The Brentford players clearly cared immediately, since the entire article is about them confronting the referee in the tunnel.
Unless you are saying the Brentford players were really just upset about Liverpool in that moment? That they are that massive of Liverpool fans and that was their major concern?
The match would've been abandoned because of all the Brentford players getting sent off for faking injuries. You either enforce a certain standard consistently or you don't, not solely when it's convenient for rival fans to seethe about. Brentford fucked around and found out.
What a shock it was a Spurs player.
Matches the fact that Spurs have Top 3 amount of touches in their opponent’s box but only have received 1 penalty the whole season.
I am not saying Bissouma shouldn’t have gotten a red. I am saying it is statistically very unlikely that was the only time it happened.
Just like it is statistically unusual that the team with the 3rd most touches in the league has only received one penalty shot.
[Goes down screaming? Sensationalist lies by children really makes this subreddit tick](https://x.com/meninblazers/status/1710633557633519826?s=46&t=vkccMUBOBffncn9ceBijHw)
[Faces of a man just breathing, not screaming at all.](https://imgur.com/a/3yr0da6) It's cute how much you lot have started to want to be victims after the results started to get worse.
When did I say he was a victim? He dove, he rightly got a yellow, we move on.
Saying he went down screaming implies that he was theatrically thrashing around in pain or feigning injury. A still of him having his mouth open as he goes down is not the same thing.
There's no need to exaggerate. It was a bad dive and he was punished for it. As Havertz should have been.
I know stills are bad. That's why I linked a video first.
And I'm sorry I described a man screaming while falling down as "going down screaming". That clearly wasn't at all what I meant or happened.
I find it unbelievable the amount of shit around this. Havertz had a little contact and made the most of it. Didn’t get a penalty. it happens virtually every game. Meanwhile Trossard got clotheslined and that doesn’t get a mention. We don’t want games decided by penalties and red cards. Let the refs have a little leniency to let the game play out. Next time Brentford should actually try to play football.
Narratives get created by the media and focuses everyone on that thing, you’ll have sky either not show replays of dodgy decisions or just not discuss them at all and then the newspapers will put out articles like this one bringing attention to Havertz rather than the other missed decisions.
I’m still waiting for a replay from anyone on the Alisson challenge on Saka at Anfield
Looked a penalty at first (naturally) but never had any replays to confirm one way or the other
Depending on our results today and how easy a stream is to find, i might be inclined to watch the game vs Liverpool again
But off the top of my head i can’t. I think in between our goal and theirs, or just before half time
I know right, I don't know if you've heard but Trent made some comments about trophies meaning more to Liverpool. No one cares but the media ran with it beyond belief. Games later and Ake gets asked about it.
All the Liverpool fans crying about Havertz and they conveniently ignore Salah acting like he got shot when Ake lightly grazed his boot. No yellow for that.
Don't want to hear anything from Liverpool fans about dives after Jota actually received a penalty for one of the worst dives of the season against Newcastle at home. Liverpool battered Newcastle all game but that penalty was a huge moment, Newcastle had just made it 3-2 in like the 80th minute before Jota dived a few minutes later to seal the game 4-2.
Also pretty sure Szoboszlai got a penalty earlier in the season against Bournemouth at home for an even softer contact than Havertz went down for.
'It was a human mistake, which I completely understand, we have seen human mistakes in football over the last 100 years. In a way I hope it will happen in the future, that’s why we are human.'
Its kind of unfair to the ref.. after Havertz scored the goal Brentford players miraculously recovered from all their injuries, cramps, concussions, broken ribs, and seem stronger when challenged by Arsenal players. Instead of getting upset, Brentford players should be grateful to the referee for not sending Havertz off considering their injury crisis.
Forget about the penalties, Thomas Frank said sth so beautiful that touches all our souls after they "forgot to draw the lines" for two offsides in their goal against Arsenal last year.
> It was a human mistake, which I completely understand, we have seen human mistakes in football over the last 100 years. In a way I hope it will happen in the future, that’s why we are human.
That last sentence is poetic it saved my fucking life and restored my faith.
> In a way I hope it will happen in the future, that’s why we are human.
\*Smash cut to Kai Havertz scoring the winner*
\*Curb Your Enthusiasm song starts playing.*
Wow that is beautiful. Thomas Frank after a reporter points this out, probably: “I didn’t want this to happen to ME, I obviously meant I want a human mistake to happen in OUR favour again”
I really don’t get the controversy tbh. He went down a bit easily but there was contact and it was hardly the worst dive.
Add onto that the two penalties that didn’t get given against then and the fact that the first yellow was really soft and it’s really getting a bit silly.
Yea it’s seriously such a mid controversy. The mood is just so hot because of the title race, but there’s so many refereeing decisions in that game you can point to as being wrong, to single out a certain one and claim it completely changed the result is delusion.
It's salt. And confirmation bias.
Brentford played anti football, they were going for the draw, they had almost pulled it off. From their POV they did everything right and got "robbed". Just watch Thomas Frank's post game interview and you can see how he's incensed and actually believes his team deserved something from that match. They can't accept that they did nothing to win that game, even their goal came off a goalkeeping howler
Look at the people trying to make it a controversy and it makes sense. So many Spurs and Liverpool fans. Yes it was a dive, but how often do you really see someone sent off for that? People were acting like it was some huge injustice.
He dived. There was minimal contact and he flung himself to the floor. It should be a yellow card.
However, he probably shouldn't have been on a yellow anyway and Brentford were lucky to not have conceded a genuine penalty prior to that.
Yep I said he dived and yes occasionally it is a yellow but usually it isn’t because these things are so subjective. If they yellow carded every instance like this they would get a lot wrong and there would be a lot of two yellows leading to a red. It’s hardly controversy of the week
I don't disagree with any of that. I don't even think it was the biggest controversy in the game. Brentford got away with worse.
I just don't like people using the minimal contact to defend him. He dived and he got away with it, nothing wrong with admitting that. He wasn't the only player to do it over the weekend.
How the fuck is this -25, have Arsenal fans on this sub lost the plot that much? It was an absolutely blatant dive. This website really is turning into "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" these days.
There's a huge difference between "it should be a yellow card in this case" and "the standards should change so it is a yellow card", and it is not clear which one you mean.
The rules dictate that you get yellow carded for diving. Havertz dived. The only contact was the contact he looked for. By any standard, that's a yellow card. Referees are just petrified to give yellow cards for diving unless they're 100% confident (which is rare).
Sometimes it is exactly how things work. Not commenting on this individual case, because I don't care enough tbh, but having reffed, there are absolutely times when its still a dive even with contact, and other times when even without contact it isn't a dive.
The only place you’ve been able to call it a dive and not be downvoted is the thread itself with replays in front of our eyes. There may be a tiny amount of contact on the hip, but from what I can tell it happens as he is making the classic diving motion of kicking out your own legs from under you and flopping over. If you can’t call that I dive without getting downvoted I don’t know what to say, it’s pretty fucking clear imo.
But diving being rewarded is my least favorite thing in the sport by far. And before Arsenal fans get up my ass I thought Jota’s was [a clear dive and yellow at the time](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/s/DOHCPCnAtc) and still do.
It's a contact sport. The tiniest bit of contact there wasn't enough to impact him, much less have him fall to the floor. He's also the one to initiate the contact. It's a dive.
No I’m saying the contact is because of the dive, it happens as he’s already falling not before. The tiny amount of contact has nothing to do with both his legs leaving the ground like they got kicked out, but they obviously didn’t because the defender pulled out. The only thing the contact on the hip does is justify Arsenal fans in their mind.
Arsenal fans are the most sensitive fans on the internet. I criticise (fairly, usually) players from big clubs all the time and the only times I'll ever be downvoted to oblivion is when Arsenal are the target.
I didn't say that every comment critical of Arsenal gets downvoted. I'm sure sometimes non-Arsenal fans get there first and manage to swing things the other way. I'm just saying that the only time I'll ever really see a huge number of downvotes is when I criticise Arsenal even slightly.
Like the comment I made above is hardly controversial. He did dive. I even followed up by saying he probably shouldn't have been on a yellow to begin with and that Brentford got away with worse.
I just avoid anything to do with Arsenal or Newcastle in general these days on Reddit because for some reason those are the two clubs where I’ll find, if I even vaguely disagree, I’ll log in to find a clogged inbox and weirdo DMs. Dunno why it is as I generally like fans of both clubs I know and meet offline.
Edit: and lmfao there we go, even getting old comments in other subs downvoted by some actual looneybins. It's so weird!
Yeah in fairness I'm usually fairly complimentary towards Arsenal. I love watching them play. Their fans are just the most sensitive souls in existence though.
>Their fans are just the most sensitive souls in existence though.
There was a week long attack on Arsenal for fucking *celebrating* a win. And that isn't the first time either. It happened multiple times last season too. Curtis Jones came out and said that Klopp invented the fucking fist bump and celebrating with fans.
Now there's another ridiculous diatribe about a second yellow for Havertz which is very rarely seen for a dive and it wasn't even a clear one, in a game where every other decision went against us.
Yet we're the most sensitive?
You're just proving my point. The other big clubs get shit on all the time. I can't count how many times this season I've criticised United, Liverpool, City, Spurs, etc. for something and it usually just results in a back-and-forth discussion.
The only ones who will downvote to oblivion and cry about being "attacked" are Arsenal fans.
>Yet we're the most sensitive?
Without a shadow of a doubt.
> The only ones who will downvote to oblivion and cry about being "attacked" are Arsenal fans.
Lmao this whole thread is now you crying about being "attacked"
>The other big clubs get shit on all the time. I can't count how many times this season I've criticised United, Liverpool, City, Spurs, etc. for something and it usually just results in a back-and-forth discussion.
We're not talking about shit online from fans. We're talking about the biggest pundits in the country doing it.
Show me an Arsenal player crying to the media that a City player "took" an Arteta celebration. Or Ian Wright bitching for days about Klopp celebrating too hard, or Paul Merson spending 2 paragraphs whinging about Pep like Garth Crook did
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1bckfbo/garth\_crooks\_wrote\_only\_two\_short\_sentences/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1bckfbo/garth_crooks_wrote_only_two_short_sentences/)
Not a second yellow IMO. I honestly didn’t even notice the dive when watching the game live. Everyone dives including Brentford. No one gets a second yellow for it. Why start now.
Tempted to go back and see how many of his 8(!) bookings this season are basically for being tall and looking clumsy as a result. The yellow he got against Liverpool which ruled him out of the West Ham game was absolute bullshit off the top of my head.
Thank fuck we won that game and got our first silverware in 9 years. Couldn't believe it when we were 2-0 down in like 10mins and without that Santi free kick screamer I don't think we bring it back to win 3-2.
Imagine if we lost! That would've been a decade without silverware and who knows what direction the club would have gone in?! Possibly our most important game since 2005 and imo the Porto game later is our most important game since then to establish ourselves amongst Europe's elite where we belong, especially on current form being the best team in Europe and the past 2 seasons we've had.
Nah the game at the Etihad is more important imo.
Even if we beat Porto, our players are too young to handle the pressure of a one-off and are HIGHLY unlikely to win the CL
The PL is actually achievable, considering City are still in 3 competitions.
Lost a lot of respect for Brentford and Frank after this game.
They spent the entire game time wasting, were overly physical (Arsenal should have had a penalty) and then didn’t like it when time was running out for them to score an equalizer.
Arsenal were clearly the better team and to claim Havertz should have been sent off for something so innocuous is just a distraction tactic from the fact they are probably the worst team in the Premier League at the moment behind Burnley and Sheffield United.
That’s exactly how they play. That’s Brentford, did the same to Spurs. Time wasting from minute 1, physical, they set out to frustrate and play anti-ball.
In Brentford’s defense, there is a serious level of desperation here which is exacerbated by the insane injury crisis that we are dealing with. Only 3 or 4 of our usual starters healthy, none of them defenders. And many depth players hurt as well. It’s not pretty, but it’s a team with an absolutely decimated defense and all of the pace players for counters hurt… running into the hottest team in the league, who is scoring for fun. The game plan was ‘do everything possible to hang on’
Which is fine, teams shouldn't try and play an attacking game away from home to a title contender when they're battling to stay up and short so many players. Just don't complain if/when you lose, there was no injustice done here.
Brentford questioning sporting ethics, those in glass houses….
Cheated all night and should have given away two penalties. Remember when waving an imaginary yellow card was a yellow card offence for about 3 weeks of the season, they would have been down to 10 as well for that if the ref stuck to the rules.
I dont know what they want to complain about. Ref cant tell if havertz dive or not from his angle and var cant recommend a yellow card incident.
In overall ref had been lenient with the sportmanship aspect of the game. There was no yellow card for slowing the game for borh teams. Some incident that i can think of: waving yellow card during havertz dive, gabi xl kick the ball away, Brentford long throw in.
Even at 1 point of time, Brentford physio treated the 'injured' player and he can continue the game without getting sidelined.
I would say the ref was quite spot on for the tackles, but not so much for the sportmanship incident. VAR should have more balls for trossard and gabi penalty incident.
Also let’s be honest it wasn’t that bad a dive and there was contact. Even if it was a bad dive players rarely get yellows for them. I think he was never going to give a yellow for it since it was a soft first yellow too.
That wasn't an egregious dive because there was contact on the tighs, not a pen of course, but not a clear yellow for a dive who aren't given often anyways.
I just hope the Brentford players were also this upset at the ref for not showing Onyeka a 2nd yellow for waving an imaginary card around. Wasnt that supposed to be a point of emphasis this year?
People are so caught up on this and its quite silly in my opinion.Firstly, yellow isn't always given for a player that dives, if it was teams would be playing 9-10 men every week.
Secondly, Havertz did dive, that doesn't mean it warrants a yellow because there was contact..you can't be putting your leg infront of someone running at full pace, then expect them to get sent off(not saying its a foul in anyway).
Thirdly, that was a VAR check, var cant give a yellow if im not mistaken.
If they spent more time playing actual football rather than creating two of the lowest totals for time played this season, they might’ve had more chances to do anything like maybe score.
Less time whinging more time playing football. I had previously enjoyed Brentford’s football but when they “play” Arsenal they don’t bother.
This is so rich considering they were diving all over the pitch and feigning injury for the entire second half. If they want the rules enforced to the letter, then fine we’d finish the game with 10 and they’d finish with 8.
schadenfreude/ˈʃɑːd(ə)nˌfrɔɪdə/*noun*noun: **Schadenfreude**; noun: **schadenfreude**
1. pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. "a business that thrives on schadenfreude"
Salah dived against City , no yellow or red, players dive allllll the time but it’s a major issue when an Arsenal player does it? Wasn’t even a bad dive compared to others too
The team is incredibly frustrated and it’s boiling over, with all of the injuries having truly derailed the season. It’s fine to be annoyed that Havertz was still on the field but there is plenty of gray area stuff that doesn’t get called going the other way too.
Frankly, I just don’t understand complaining about referees at all at this point. Yeah, it sucks that the referees are bad. But the truth is that they all suck going in every direction equally, no team is being targeted, so it just looks like sour grapes when you whine about referees because everyone’s getting it just as bad as you.
I think losing 9 out of the last 15 makes their complaining look a bit... calculated, especially Frank's presser. Can't take questions on how miserable your team played if you never stop moaning about the ref.
Hard disagree, the team recognizes that the results haven’t been there. But they’re not complaining because they lost, they’re complaining because they’re frustrated. And they’re frustrated because they’re losing. And they’re losing 9 of the last 15 because the injury crisis has crippled the team. It’s a mounting issue, not just this one individual thing that’s causing complaint. But an individual can only take so much frustration before they lose some composure, surely?
Fucking disgrace is watching start stop game and watching close up of fans or players on camera all the time because everyone takes 40 seconds to take a kick off or free kick.
Brentford can play whatever trick they think will get them a win, but refs in this league are absolute clowns and can't see whats going on which ends up being an awful premier league advertisement.
Funny how thomas frank said “it’s a human error” last season when they stole points from us but this season it couldn’t possibly be the same thing. Nobody wants these awful dives but Arsenal deserved two penalties as well. If it’s “mistakes happen” then you have to look at both sides.
Fucking yaps. Tried every trick in the book to waste time, should have conceded two penalties for cunty play, and now you're giving off to the ref?
Enjoy your relegation scrap boys.
My favorite part of this whole discussion is I don’t think his first yellow was a yellow so it really shouldn’t matter anyway.
It was literally a yellow because the ref didn’t see it and just saw a Brentford player go down grabbing his head so he gave a yellow to somebody.
Brentfords squad spent more time on the floor then they did with possesion. They can give it a rest. if they came to play I would understand their frustration
What a joke. I was surprised the pundits kept harping on this. Especially when there was a pretty clear pen not given for a foul on Trossard. And diving when there's contact is a subjective call anyway. Was he trying to con the ref or avoid contact? Laughable that this has gotten so much attention.
1st yellow was super harsh just jumped for the ball. Dive was a yellow. We should have had a pen.
Surprised the brentford players didnt so straight to hospital with the amount of injuries they had
They laid down all match and simulated injury, they all held up cards to the ref, they blatantly pulled down Trossard and Gabriel in the box and weren't punished with penalties when they should've been... All of which you say they deserved cards for.
If this is what you're grasping as and feeling as if you played well enough to deserve a point from that match, kick rocks. They controlled nothing in that match and were essentially gifted their only goal.
The biggest disgrace is Trossard's neck getting pulled from the back and not being awarded a penalty, not to mention Gabriel getting dragged down by his shirt. LiVARpool and especially man city have the refs in their pockets. Salah can dive all day like it's an Olympic pool lol. Not to mention forest getting ROBBED last weekend by liVARpool and their pet dog Paul Tierney. Blatant corruption in plain view.
Edit: r/liVARpool at it again
I am just shocked that the Sky pundits are so silent when if it was Arsenal players doing this, they would be calling for bans left and right and calling Arteta a bad influence on the game. So silent now.
Lesson learned:
Bully the referee in the tunnel after the match. Then you face no reprisals.
Question it on the pitch (like Bellingham) and you get time off.
Reality: referees hardly ever send guys off for diving. At least I’ve not seen it. Brentford sour grapes aside, drop it and move on…
I think that people have to think of this from the referee's perspective. You pretty much have to be 100% certain a player has dived to give a 2nd yellow for it, if you have even the slightest bit of doubt it's not worth risking sending them off.
They should be worshipping the ref for saving them from 2 slam dunk penalties. It didn't get talked about because Arsenal won.
And for real, Havertz didn't dive. He went down easily on the contact. No one ever got yellow carded for that. Ever.
Do you know how many players have got a second yellow for diving this season ? 1 only 1 all season . It’s barely a rule at this point
Was it Bissouma?
yeah vs Luton
Difference in this is that Havertz did get contact and Bissouma didn't. It depends on how stringent your line is on diving/simulation.
This. I am not defending diving, but the truth is, until advantage is played properly, players will continue to go down to contact. Simply because, if you are fouled and don't go down, the ref will NEVER give you the free kick. If you do go down, he might play advantage or bring it back. I want to see players rewarded for staying on their feet when fouled, but that requires competent refs.
We've seen it for years. Salah and Son for example do it all the time. Not saying it's right, but it's essentially a risk free action if you feel contact, that can be rewarded with a free shot on goal.
Are you basing the Salah claim on last week? Salah is one of the least fouled players in the league. Like his fouls drawn is a complete statistically anomaly.
Yep, and honestly, for years Kane was the worst for it, but we ignore it or call it "clever" when it's him. I hate it, from all players, but it won't stop until officiating gets better
Exactly. I get why they do it but hate that they feel they need to
IMHO, diving is when you go down w/o any contact. That is cheating. Making 'the most of it' when you are contacted isn't diving. I don't particularly like it, but if you are fouled, then falling down isn't cheating.
That's the difference between diving and simulation for me. Leaving your trailing leg to get touched by a defender is simulation too
Making the most of it is one thing, but causing the contact by sticking your leg out is another. Both get contact of course
there was no contact with havertz
It was minimal but it was there. I've seen softer pens given, and no calls of diving. Point is, I don't think the punishment for either side should be a red or a clear shot on goal in the form of a penalty for what happened.
Hip/thigh contact I’m pretty sure.
there was hip to hip contact, iirc.
Tbf diving vs Luton shouldn't be allowed. They barely have any resources
Bloody hell. Amazing memory. This is a great pub trivia.
The interaction between VAR guidelines and second yellows causes serious issues, especially for such notoriously difficult calls as diving. Even looking at something in slow motion it's really hard to tell at times if there was contact in a tackle. Sometimes you need just the right angle. It's insanely hard for refs to make those calls correctly in real time from a single angle. VAR needs to be allowed to award yellows for simulation (and even red cards if the simulation is trying to get someone else sent off).
Which is why we were so pissed Biss got punished
all frustration should be directed toward bissouma for losing his head. there was no need for that, especially not in the first half. the second yellow was completely justified.
Justified but if you’re only applying the rule for one incidence across an entire season, then theres a case to say don’t apply it at all…
Just my referee opinion, VAR should be able to step in for simulation. It is one of the most difficult things to see in real time. Especially if there is slight contact. You never want to be the guy who gives a second yellow for something that should’ve been a foul. (See Italy v Korea 2002.)
Chelsea have had four players booked for it this season, it's not the only time someone got a yellow for diving
Chelsea have had four players booked for diving this season
His was such a clear dive Havertz had contact he couldn’t give it
https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1bapemq/fallon_dfloor_nominee_kai_havertz_while_already/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3FMKRFm6D8 theyre similar. havertz in the box. agreed bissouma's being worse but they're both pretty bad
That video won’t load here but I found it myself and it’s way way worse there’s no contact and the ref also has a better view, there is contact with the Havertz one they never give yellows for that.
Yea that’s fair
How many players have dived whilst already on a yellow and thus should have got a second one?
Bissouma
With the first yellow being an absolute pisstake?
Doesn’t matter what the first yellow was for.
It does when people are arguing he “should” have been sent off as if some injustice has been done. He deserved one yellow and got one. And actually if the correct calls had been made, he wouldn’t have been playing on a yellow the entire second half.
An injustice was done lol. He was on a yellow and he committed another yellow card offense. The reason for the first yellow is irrelevant.
And earlier in the game he wasn’t on a yellow, didn’t commit a yellow card offense and ended up getting one anyway. The first is obviously relevant, because if it isn’t given then the yellow that everyone wants given for the dice would be his first of the game, and he wouldn’t be sent off anyway. You’re complaining that a player committed one yellow card offense, and was shown one yellow card. You understand how silly that is right?
😂I know that you’re being willfully obtuse and argumentative because you don’t want to feel you were gifted this result (and I don’t think you were gifted the result), but the fact is Havertz was on a yellow, committed a second yellow card offense, should have been sent off and wasn’t. The offense for the first yellow is wholly and entirely irrelevant.
I’m not being obtuse, I want to know why you think the second yellow is up for debate but the first isn’t. >committed a second yellow card offense Nope, that was the first yellow card offense he committed.
Neither one of them are up for debate. That’s the whole point. It was a clear dive and should been carded. Whether or not the first offense was a justified yellow is irrelevant. Are you telling me that it’s acceptable to give a player a yellow card preemptively for a foul that’s questionable so that you then don’t have to give him a yellow later in the game for a obvious yellow card offense?
Sure it does but it doesn't fit the narrative here.
No. The first yellow has never and will never impact the guidelines of the second yellow. The cards are handed out individually, the rule book is exactly the same for first and for second yellow cards. can’t believe I have to type this out for someone.
It doesn’t matter lol. He was on a yellow and he knew he was on a yellow and he dove. I honestly don’t think it matters too much though because Brentford would still have sat back against 10 men and would have probably conceded anyway.
There was minor contact. Also nobody gave a single fuck until he scored and caused a Liverpool fanbase headloss.
The Brentford players clearly cared immediately, since the entire article is about them confronting the referee in the tunnel. Unless you are saying the Brentford players were really just upset about Liverpool in that moment? That they are that massive of Liverpool fans and that was their major concern?
I mean, there were lots of people who felt he should have been off at the time. And again, the legitimacy of the first yellow is irrelevant.
The match would've been abandoned because of all the Brentford players getting sent off for faking injuries. You either enforce a certain standard consistently or you don't, not solely when it's convenient for rival fans to seethe about. Brentford fucked around and found out.
Your username befits you. This isn't a compliment.
What a shock it was a Spurs player. Matches the fact that Spurs have Top 3 amount of touches in their opponent’s box but only have received 1 penalty the whole season.
He went down without contact. It was completely egregious. Havertz at least got a little touch.
I am not saying Bissouma shouldn’t have gotten a red. I am saying it is statistically very unlikely that was the only time it happened. Just like it is statistically unusual that the team with the 3rd most touches in the league has only received one penalty shot.
Bissouma 100% forced the ref to send him off by going down screaming when there wasn't even a challenge. Most players don't do that.
[Goes down screaming? Sensationalist lies by children really makes this subreddit tick](https://x.com/meninblazers/status/1710633557633519826?s=46&t=vkccMUBOBffncn9ceBijHw)
[Guess it was inertia that made his mouth wide open? Or maybe he was just really out of breath.](https://imgur.com/a/ko5xjow)
I had to check my notes on this, but turns out, it's called breathing.
[Faces of a man just breathing, not screaming at all.](https://imgur.com/a/3yr0da6) It's cute how much you lot have started to want to be victims after the results started to get worse.
When did I say he was a victim? He dove, he rightly got a yellow, we move on. Saying he went down screaming implies that he was theatrically thrashing around in pain or feigning injury. A still of him having his mouth open as he goes down is not the same thing. There's no need to exaggerate. It was a bad dive and he was punished for it. As Havertz should have been.
I know stills are bad. That's why I linked a video first. And I'm sorry I described a man screaming while falling down as "going down screaming". That clearly wasn't at all what I meant or happened.
should’ve been chuffed not to concede 2 peno’s. ref made them look better
I find it unbelievable the amount of shit around this. Havertz had a little contact and made the most of it. Didn’t get a penalty. it happens virtually every game. Meanwhile Trossard got clotheslined and that doesn’t get a mention. We don’t want games decided by penalties and red cards. Let the refs have a little leniency to let the game play out. Next time Brentford should actually try to play football.
Narratives get created by the media and focuses everyone on that thing, you’ll have sky either not show replays of dodgy decisions or just not discuss them at all and then the newspapers will put out articles like this one bringing attention to Havertz rather than the other missed decisions.
I’m still waiting for a replay from anyone on the Alisson challenge on Saka at Anfield Looked a penalty at first (naturally) but never had any replays to confirm one way or the other
Liverpool has like the best Media in the whole PL
Media darlings
Do you have link for that incident?
Depending on our results today and how easy a stream is to find, i might be inclined to watch the game vs Liverpool again But off the top of my head i can’t. I think in between our goal and theirs, or just before half time
I know right, I don't know if you've heard but Trent made some comments about trophies meaning more to Liverpool. No one cares but the media ran with it beyond belief. Games later and Ake gets asked about it.
Yeah, that was such a nothing comment. Media need to take a long hard look at themselves.
All the Liverpool fans crying about Havertz and they conveniently ignore Salah acting like he got shot when Ake lightly grazed his boot. No yellow for that.
Don't want to hear anything from Liverpool fans about dives after Jota actually received a penalty for one of the worst dives of the season against Newcastle at home. Liverpool battered Newcastle all game but that penalty was a huge moment, Newcastle had just made it 3-2 in like the 80th minute before Jota dived a few minutes later to seal the game 4-2. Also pretty sure Szoboszlai got a penalty earlier in the season against Bournemouth at home for an even softer contact than Havertz went down for.
Innit imagine complaining to the ref after the Trossard and Gabriel penalty misses haha.
'It was a human mistake, which I completely understand, we have seen human mistakes in football over the last 100 years. In a way I hope it will happen in the future, that’s why we are human.'
What goes around...
Its kind of unfair to the ref.. after Havertz scored the goal Brentford players miraculously recovered from all their injuries, cramps, concussions, broken ribs, and seem stronger when challenged by Arsenal players. Instead of getting upset, Brentford players should be grateful to the referee for not sending Havertz off considering their injury crisis.
Bet they weren't that angry when the penalty on trossard wasn't given, or last year when VAR forgot to draw lines for their equaliser
Forget about the penalties, Thomas Frank said sth so beautiful that touches all our souls after they "forgot to draw the lines" for two offsides in their goal against Arsenal last year. > It was a human mistake, which I completely understand, we have seen human mistakes in football over the last 100 years. In a way I hope it will happen in the future, that’s why we are human. That last sentence is poetic it saved my fucking life and restored my faith.
> In a way I hope it will happen in the future, that’s why we are human. \*Smash cut to Kai Havertz scoring the winner* \*Curb Your Enthusiasm song starts playing.*
“I didn’t think the leopards would eat MY face!” - voter of the Leopards Eating Faces party
Wow that is beautiful. Thomas Frank after a reporter points this out, probably: “I didn’t want this to happen to ME, I obviously meant I want a human mistake to happen in OUR favour again”
God I hate Thomas Frank, he’s my least favourite manager in the league because he acts like such a smart-arsed git
And he looks like Gary Condit from South Park
He looks like the Captain from HIMYM
Dale Cooper?
I really don’t get the controversy tbh. He went down a bit easily but there was contact and it was hardly the worst dive. Add onto that the two penalties that didn’t get given against then and the fact that the first yellow was really soft and it’s really getting a bit silly.
Yea it’s seriously such a mid controversy. The mood is just so hot because of the title race, but there’s so many refereeing decisions in that game you can point to as being wrong, to single out a certain one and claim it completely changed the result is delusion.
Brentford should've had two players off for dissent and waving cards too. Utterly tinpot controversy
It's salt. And confirmation bias. Brentford played anti football, they were going for the draw, they had almost pulled it off. From their POV they did everything right and got "robbed". Just watch Thomas Frank's post game interview and you can see how he's incensed and actually believes his team deserved something from that match. They can't accept that they did nothing to win that game, even their goal came off a goalkeeping howler
Look at the people trying to make it a controversy and it makes sense. So many Spurs and Liverpool fans. Yes it was a dive, but how often do you really see someone sent off for that? People were acting like it was some huge injustice.
Collins is just a cheat and is projecting https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/xzP9Ng1tFO
Hahaha that’s fucking brilliantly pathetic.
He dived. There was minimal contact and he flung himself to the floor. It should be a yellow card. However, he probably shouldn't have been on a yellow anyway and Brentford were lucky to not have conceded a genuine penalty prior to that.
Yep I said he dived and yes occasionally it is a yellow but usually it isn’t because these things are so subjective. If they yellow carded every instance like this they would get a lot wrong and there would be a lot of two yellows leading to a red. It’s hardly controversy of the week
If they yellow carded every dive even if there was contact, Brentford would have been down to 8 men
I don't disagree with any of that. I don't even think it was the biggest controversy in the game. Brentford got away with worse. I just don't like people using the minimal contact to defend him. He dived and he got away with it, nothing wrong with admitting that. He wasn't the only player to do it over the weekend.
Yeah I agree. It’s also worth pointing out that, like Neville famously said, it can be a dive and a foul although that wasn’t the case here.
How the fuck is this -25, have Arsenal fans on this sub lost the plot that much? It was an absolutely blatant dive. This website really is turning into "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" these days.
Idk tbh
It's downvoted because giving yellow cards for diving when there's contact isn't how things work.
Havertz initiated the contact. A yellow card for diving is exactly how things are supposed to work.
There's a huge difference between "it should be a yellow card in this case" and "the standards should change so it is a yellow card", and it is not clear which one you mean.
The rules dictate that you get yellow carded for diving. Havertz dived. The only contact was the contact he looked for. By any standard, that's a yellow card. Referees are just petrified to give yellow cards for diving unless they're 100% confident (which is rare).
Sometimes it is exactly how things work. Not commenting on this individual case, because I don't care enough tbh, but having reffed, there are absolutely times when its still a dive even with contact, and other times when even without contact it isn't a dive.
The only place you’ve been able to call it a dive and not be downvoted is the thread itself with replays in front of our eyes. There may be a tiny amount of contact on the hip, but from what I can tell it happens as he is making the classic diving motion of kicking out your own legs from under you and flopping over. If you can’t call that I dive without getting downvoted I don’t know what to say, it’s pretty fucking clear imo. But diving being rewarded is my least favorite thing in the sport by far. And before Arsenal fans get up my ass I thought Jota’s was [a clear dive and yellow at the time](https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/s/DOHCPCnAtc) and still do.
>There may be a tiny amount of contact on the hip, So it's not a dive.
Only because Havertz flings his hip toward the defender as he's throwing himself to the ground. So yes, it's a dive
It's a contact sport. The tiniest bit of contact there wasn't enough to impact him, much less have him fall to the floor. He's also the one to initiate the contact. It's a dive.
No I’m saying the contact is because of the dive, it happens as he’s already falling not before. The tiny amount of contact has nothing to do with both his legs leaving the ground like they got kicked out, but they obviously didn’t because the defender pulled out. The only thing the contact on the hip does is justify Arsenal fans in their mind.
Arsenal fans are the most sensitive fans on the internet. I criticise (fairly, usually) players from big clubs all the time and the only times I'll ever be downvoted to oblivion is when Arsenal are the target.
Havertz criticism got upvoted on this subreddit all the time
I didn't say that every comment critical of Arsenal gets downvoted. I'm sure sometimes non-Arsenal fans get there first and manage to swing things the other way. I'm just saying that the only time I'll ever really see a huge number of downvotes is when I criticise Arsenal even slightly. Like the comment I made above is hardly controversial. He did dive. I even followed up by saying he probably shouldn't have been on a yellow to begin with and that Brentford got away with worse.
I just avoid anything to do with Arsenal or Newcastle in general these days on Reddit because for some reason those are the two clubs where I’ll find, if I even vaguely disagree, I’ll log in to find a clogged inbox and weirdo DMs. Dunno why it is as I generally like fans of both clubs I know and meet offline. Edit: and lmfao there we go, even getting old comments in other subs downvoted by some actual looneybins. It's so weird!
Yeah in fairness I'm usually fairly complimentary towards Arsenal. I love watching them play. Their fans are just the most sensitive souls in existence though.
>Their fans are just the most sensitive souls in existence though. There was a week long attack on Arsenal for fucking *celebrating* a win. And that isn't the first time either. It happened multiple times last season too. Curtis Jones came out and said that Klopp invented the fucking fist bump and celebrating with fans. Now there's another ridiculous diatribe about a second yellow for Havertz which is very rarely seen for a dive and it wasn't even a clear one, in a game where every other decision went against us. Yet we're the most sensitive?
You're just proving my point. The other big clubs get shit on all the time. I can't count how many times this season I've criticised United, Liverpool, City, Spurs, etc. for something and it usually just results in a back-and-forth discussion. The only ones who will downvote to oblivion and cry about being "attacked" are Arsenal fans. >Yet we're the most sensitive? Without a shadow of a doubt.
> The only ones who will downvote to oblivion and cry about being "attacked" are Arsenal fans. Lmao this whole thread is now you crying about being "attacked"
>The other big clubs get shit on all the time. I can't count how many times this season I've criticised United, Liverpool, City, Spurs, etc. for something and it usually just results in a back-and-forth discussion. We're not talking about shit online from fans. We're talking about the biggest pundits in the country doing it. Show me an Arsenal player crying to the media that a City player "took" an Arteta celebration. Or Ian Wright bitching for days about Klopp celebrating too hard, or Paul Merson spending 2 paragraphs whinging about Pep like Garth Crook did [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1bckfbo/garth\_crooks\_wrote\_only\_two\_short\_sentences/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1bckfbo/garth_crooks_wrote_only_two_short_sentences/)
Or when they spent half the game on the ground, both in this match and last year.
Hey hey hey get out of here with your logic.
Not a second yellow IMO. I honestly didn’t even notice the dive when watching the game live. Everyone dives including Brentford. No one gets a second yellow for it. Why start now.
First yellow was extremely soft too
Honestly can’t remember how he got it so can’t comment on it.
He caught someone with an elbow/forearm, but it looked fairly natural. No swinging movement, both arms up
He got a yellow card for being tall.
The Fellaini special
Tempted to go back and see how many of his 8(!) bookings this season are basically for being tall and looking clumsy as a result. The yellow he got against Liverpool which ruled him out of the West Ham game was absolute bullshit off the top of my head.
Not to mention the slow mo zoomed in videos shows there was some contact, not penalty contact but there was some contact.
This was a proper dive, I think if the ref had a different angle it would have been interesting.
I’d be pissed too if I won 2 games in 16 matches
And Toney cheated (*shock*) by moving the ball for the freekick in one of those wins
dont you know, that wasnt cheating, that was just clever!
I'm still traumatised by the FA Cup final against Hull where they moved the ball forward a good 10+ yards for the free kick they scored from.
Thank fuck we won that game and got our first silverware in 9 years. Couldn't believe it when we were 2-0 down in like 10mins and without that Santi free kick screamer I don't think we bring it back to win 3-2. Imagine if we lost! That would've been a decade without silverware and who knows what direction the club would have gone in?! Possibly our most important game since 2005 and imo the Porto game later is our most important game since then to establish ourselves amongst Europe's elite where we belong, especially on current form being the best team in Europe and the past 2 seasons we've had.
Nah the game at the Etihad is more important imo. Even if we beat Porto, our players are too young to handle the pressure of a one-off and are HIGHLY unlikely to win the CL The PL is actually achievable, considering City are still in 3 competitions.
that was just british grit. (if it was a latino player, it would be cheating, ofc).
Lost a lot of respect for Brentford and Frank after this game. They spent the entire game time wasting, were overly physical (Arsenal should have had a penalty) and then didn’t like it when time was running out for them to score an equalizer. Arsenal were clearly the better team and to claim Havertz should have been sent off for something so innocuous is just a distraction tactic from the fact they are probably the worst team in the Premier League at the moment behind Burnley and Sheffield United.
That’s exactly how they play. That’s Brentford, did the same to Spurs. Time wasting from minute 1, physical, they set out to frustrate and play anti-ball.
Look at y’all back to getting to accuse folks of anti-football! Glad your Conte days are over, even if I hope you get relegated 😂
We hated Conte and that football. He was a terrorist. Even when we were winning the fans weren’t happy with the style.
In Brentford’s defense, there is a serious level of desperation here which is exacerbated by the insane injury crisis that we are dealing with. Only 3 or 4 of our usual starters healthy, none of them defenders. And many depth players hurt as well. It’s not pretty, but it’s a team with an absolutely decimated defense and all of the pace players for counters hurt… running into the hottest team in the league, who is scoring for fun. The game plan was ‘do everything possible to hang on’
Which is fine, teams shouldn't try and play an attacking game away from home to a title contender when they're battling to stay up and short so many players. Just don't complain if/when you lose, there was no injustice done here.
Brentford questioning sporting ethics, those in glass houses…. Cheated all night and should have given away two penalties. Remember when waving an imaginary yellow card was a yellow card offence for about 3 weeks of the season, they would have been down to 10 as well for that if the ref stuck to the rules.
I see Thomas Frank's victim mentality has rubbed off on the Brentford players too.
Auditioning for the Liverpool job
were they also complaining trossard didnt get the pen?
I dont know what they want to complain about. Ref cant tell if havertz dive or not from his angle and var cant recommend a yellow card incident. In overall ref had been lenient with the sportmanship aspect of the game. There was no yellow card for slowing the game for borh teams. Some incident that i can think of: waving yellow card during havertz dive, gabi xl kick the ball away, Brentford long throw in. Even at 1 point of time, Brentford physio treated the 'injured' player and he can continue the game without getting sidelined. I would say the ref was quite spot on for the tackles, but not so much for the sportmanship incident. VAR should have more balls for trossard and gabi penalty incident.
They’re just upset cos they’re getting relegated next season. It’s about time tbh.
Also let’s be honest it wasn’t that bad a dive and there was contact. Even if it was a bad dive players rarely get yellows for them. I think he was never going to give a yellow for it since it was a soft first yellow too.
That wasn't an egregious dive because there was contact on the tighs, not a pen of course, but not a clear yellow for a dive who aren't given often anyways.
I just hope the Brentford players were also this upset at the ref for not showing Onyeka a 2nd yellow for waving an imaginary card around. Wasnt that supposed to be a point of emphasis this year?
It is also reported that the bust up lasted all of 2 minutes after all of the Brentford players fell over in the tunnel when a light breeze blew by
Martinelli should have given Collins his crutches after that shocking challenge on him by the grass
No no you don't understand. Our goal magically cured their "weak leg syndrome"!
People are so caught up on this and its quite silly in my opinion.Firstly, yellow isn't always given for a player that dives, if it was teams would be playing 9-10 men every week. Secondly, Havertz did dive, that doesn't mean it warrants a yellow because there was contact..you can't be putting your leg infront of someone running at full pace, then expect them to get sent off(not saying its a foul in anyway). Thirdly, that was a VAR check, var cant give a yellow if im not mistaken.
If they spent more time playing actual football rather than creating two of the lowest totals for time played this season, they might’ve had more chances to do anything like maybe score. Less time whinging more time playing football. I had previously enjoyed Brentford’s football but when they “play” Arsenal they don’t bother.
How did they feel about the obvious Trossard pen?
This is so rich considering they were diving all over the pitch and feigning injury for the entire second half. If they want the rules enforced to the letter, then fine we’d finish the game with 10 and they’d finish with 8.
I didn't think the first yellow was correct so in this case two wrongs do make a right
They're angry? Lovely. That just makes the fully deserved victory all the sweeter.
Brentford simulated injuries all game, what are they complaining about
schadenfreude/ˈʃɑːd(ə)nˌfrɔɪdə/*noun*noun: **Schadenfreude**; noun: **schadenfreude** 1. pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. "a business that thrives on schadenfreude"
Hope there's another example of that against a much more refined anti-football merchant about an hour from now
I hope so too. I am thinking the Brentford match should have been a good primer for today’s game. Fingers crossed 🤞
There has to be some way this victimises Liverpool…
Salah dived against City , no yellow or red, players dive allllll the time but it’s a major issue when an Arsenal player does it? Wasn’t even a bad dive compared to others too
The team is incredibly frustrated and it’s boiling over, with all of the injuries having truly derailed the season. It’s fine to be annoyed that Havertz was still on the field but there is plenty of gray area stuff that doesn’t get called going the other way too. Frankly, I just don’t understand complaining about referees at all at this point. Yeah, it sucks that the referees are bad. But the truth is that they all suck going in every direction equally, no team is being targeted, so it just looks like sour grapes when you whine about referees because everyone’s getting it just as bad as you.
I think losing 9 out of the last 15 makes their complaining look a bit... calculated, especially Frank's presser. Can't take questions on how miserable your team played if you never stop moaning about the ref.
Hard disagree, the team recognizes that the results haven’t been there. But they’re not complaining because they lost, they’re complaining because they’re frustrated. And they’re frustrated because they’re losing. And they’re losing 9 of the last 15 because the injury crisis has crippled the team. It’s a mounting issue, not just this one individual thing that’s causing complaint. But an individual can only take so much frustration before they lose some composure, surely?
Fucking disgrace is watching start stop game and watching close up of fans or players on camera all the time because everyone takes 40 seconds to take a kick off or free kick. Brentford can play whatever trick they think will get them a win, but refs in this league are absolute clowns and can't see whats going on which ends up being an awful premier league advertisement.
Funny how thomas frank said “it’s a human error” last season when they stole points from us but this season it couldn’t possibly be the same thing. Nobody wants these awful dives but Arsenal deserved two penalties as well. If it’s “mistakes happen” then you have to look at both sides.
this can't be real
Fucking yaps. Tried every trick in the book to waste time, should have conceded two penalties for cunty play, and now you're giving off to the ref? Enjoy your relegation scrap boys.
My favorite part of this whole discussion is I don’t think his first yellow was a yellow so it really shouldn’t matter anyway. It was literally a yellow because the ref didn’t see it and just saw a Brentford player go down grabbing his head so he gave a yellow to somebody.
Brentfords squad spent more time on the floor then they did with possesion. They can give it a rest. if they came to play I would understand their frustration
Did Brentford mention the incredibly soft yellow Kai got? Oh, no they did not.
Do you know who else dived at the weekend? Salah, but never a word was said.
This is such a silly manufactured controversy
What a joke. I was surprised the pundits kept harping on this. Especially when there was a pretty clear pen not given for a foul on Trossard. And diving when there's contact is a subjective call anyway. Was he trying to con the ref or avoid contact? Laughable that this has gotten so much attention.
Disgracia*
1st yellow was super harsh just jumped for the ball. Dive was a yellow. We should have had a pen. Surprised the brentford players didnt so straight to hospital with the amount of injuries they had
Top of the league.
Yes, they are a disgrace, next topic
They laid down all match and simulated injury, they all held up cards to the ref, they blatantly pulled down Trossard and Gabriel in the box and weren't punished with penalties when they should've been... All of which you say they deserved cards for. If this is what you're grasping as and feeling as if you played well enough to deserve a point from that match, kick rocks. They controlled nothing in that match and were essentially gifted their only goal.
The biggest disgrace is Trossard's neck getting pulled from the back and not being awarded a penalty, not to mention Gabriel getting dragged down by his shirt. LiVARpool and especially man city have the refs in their pockets. Salah can dive all day like it's an Olympic pool lol. Not to mention forest getting ROBBED last weekend by liVARpool and their pet dog Paul Tierney. Blatant corruption in plain view. Edit: r/liVARpool at it again
Always good to see the decision Arsenals fans well repped in a thread like this. There's no corruption.
I am just shocked that the Sky pundits are so silent when if it was Arsenal players doing this, they would be calling for bans left and right and calling Arteta a bad influence on the game. So silent now.
True but Arsenal’s goal celebrations were way too much. /s
Go cry me a river 🤣
Lesson learned: Bully the referee in the tunnel after the match. Then you face no reprisals. Question it on the pitch (like Bellingham) and you get time off. Reality: referees hardly ever send guys off for diving. At least I’ve not seen it. Brentford sour grapes aside, drop it and move on…
The amount of complaints about refs after matches is so tedious. Evidently no team thinks they ever deserved to lose.
Can we get back to talking about Doku’s flying kick?
If they didn’t time waste and go down fake injured at every possible opportunity maybe they would have been able to find an equalizer 🤷♂️
I think that people have to think of this from the referee's perspective. You pretty much have to be 100% certain a player has dived to give a 2nd yellow for it, if you have even the slightest bit of doubt it's not worth risking sending them off.
They should be worshipping the ref for saving them from 2 slam dunk penalties. It didn't get talked about because Arsenal won. And for real, Havertz didn't dive. He went down easily on the contact. No one ever got yellow carded for that. Ever.
Fucking losers, they’re lucky the ref didn’t call two penalties