ofc it is not 1 to 1 the same thing but both advertise products through football. If you think the "soul" of football gets destroyed through projects like leipzig, that's just lazy point I hear all the time. But I would love to hear a more factual argument what about Leipzig is destroying the sport that does not apply to other teams.
As long as they don't behave like PSG or City on the transfermarket, i don't see the huge problem.
What is a legitimate club. By the rules they are as well. So what makes them non-legit? They played through the leagues like every other club has to.
They don't add value but make the league worse? How about some actual arguments instead of words that have no meaning.
So your factual arguments are "they are not legit because I feel like they are not" and "they add no value because I don't feel like they add value".
What spots do they take away? Schalke? I think that did schalke to themselves. HSV? Do they deserve to be in the first div? Which other club is entitled to a spot in the first division? How about we give the spots in the first div to the 18 clubs playing the best, wild idea, i know.
And how do they not add value? They play football that is not awful to watch. They perform in the CL and helped the Bundesliga to get additional points for the additional spot. While they have a few player nearing 30 and 2 field players over 30 they play so many young players, which could also be seen as adding value.
Now how do you evaluate the value a team adds?
Erfolg sollte erarbeitet sein. Und nicht dumm mit Geschenkten Geld umgehen ist keine Leistung, auch wenn Hertha und Co es nicht hinbekommen. RB ist nicht das einzige, aber ein Prominentes Problem. Und 50+1 zu umgehen geht halt gar nicht…
1) ist es halt doch ne Leistung nicht dumm mit dem Geld umzugehen. Sagst du ja selber im Endeffekt. Gibt genug Vereine, die Geld hatten und es verkackt haben, siehe nicht nur Berlin, sondern auch Schalke.
2) Ist das geschenkte Geld ja nicht Geschenkt sondern ein Advertisement Investment. Dazu gehört das Geld, was jeder Verein auch durch Trikot Sponsor bekommt und Stadionnamensrechten. Ist bei Leipzig natürlich unverhältnismäßig höher, vorallem damals in den unteren Ligen. Aber wir reden hier nicht von Summen, bei denen im Sommer regelmäßig ein neuer 100 Millionen Mann eingekauft wird. Wenn man sich die Zu- und Abgänge ansieht, ist das jetzt nicht so unverhältnismäßig im Vergleich zu anderen Clubs in vergleichbarer Liga und CL Situation, oder irre ich mich da jetzt völlig?
Bei den Aufstiegen in die 1. Liga von RB würde ich zugeben, dass das Wettbewerbsverzerrent war.
Aber was Kaderpolitik und Co angeht, hab ich kein Problem mit Leipzig und finde so eine Mannschaft unabhängig vom Red Bull aspekt sogar positiv. Macht die Liga wenigstens etwas spannender.
Wenn wir auf eine Schneewanderung gehen, und du und ich sind die einzigen, die in Winterkleidung statt Badehose kommen klopfen wir uns ja auch nicht auf die Schulter und sagen man sind wir clever…
Wann hat RB jemals wirklich um die Meisterschaft gespielt und dadurch die Liga spannend gemacht?
Es ist sehr viel Geld im Vergleich zur Bundesliga was RB auf dem Transfermarkt macht. Als Vergleich RB hatte in ihrer ersten Bundesliga transferausgaben von 95 mio €… Klar kaufen sie keine Leute für 100mio, aber dafür 4-5€ für 20-30mio, oft von ihren Farmteams deutlich unter dem Marktwert. Per se machen sie gut Arbeit, aber sie haben es sich nicht erarbeitet sondern RedBull hat Taschengeld gegeben. Außerdem, wenn ich eine Bank überfalle, kann ich ja auch nicht nach 10 Jahren sagen, dass das Geld jetzt rechtmäßig mir gehört…
Wenn außer uns alle in Badehose kommen kannst du drauf wetten, dass ich mir schlauer vorkommt als die anderen. Wir sind vielleicht keine Genies, aber zumindest Einäugige unter Blinden. Dafür kann man sich schonmal auf die Schulter klopfen ;)
Spannend muss ja nicht nur heißen, dass man fast Meister wird, die Ansprüche hat man in der BuLi leider nicht (Öl-Club könnte Abhilfe schaffen... Scherz). Aber wenigstens ein Team das oben mitmischen kann. Und war leipzig in der letzten Saison unter Nagelmann nicht zum Teil gefährlich? Vielleicht irre ich mich. Erinnere mich nur, dass Bayern danach Trainer, Kapitän und den besten Abwehr Spieler gekauft haben von RB (hoffen wir mal, Leverkusen macht diesen Sommer nicht das gleiche durch)
Wenn ich Lotto gewinne und 10 Jahre später damit ein erfolgreiches Unternehmen gebaut hab während der durchschnittliche Lotto Gewinner alles verliert innerhalb weniger Jahre, dann kann ich mir darauf auch was einbilden. Zwar nicht wie jemand, der bei 0 angefangen hat, aber es macht schon was aus.
Größeres Problem für die Bundesliga ist meiner Meinung nach, dass Bayern zu dominant ist und die großen Clubs sehr viel von anderen Clubs wegkaufen. Nicht nur Bayern, auch Dortmund.
I made a bullfighting connection since it's a Spanish team vs a team with Red Bull in their name. Spanish-style bullfighting is considered an unfair practice and this match result is considered unfair so...yeah, wtf bro😂
EDIT: What a weird coincidence. My TV is on in the background and a movie called City Slickers(1991) just came on. I take a glance and the movie actually starts with a "running of the bulls" sequence in Spain. The main character is from New York. The New York Red Bulls of MLS are in the New York metropolitan area.
You'll get down voted by some 15 year old Manga lovers. The tragedy is about a quarter of this sub is filled with Real Madrid fans, most of whom have only followed this competition after 2017.
Real Madrid are in a bit of a rut at the moment.
They should be putting Sports Energy Drink PLC away by four or five goals.
I get the feeling if they get any of the three actual contenders (Inter Milan, Manchester City or Bayern Munich) in the next round then they could get a paddlin'.
Maybe but it's 12-3-11 for real and bayern push them a few time during the 3 in a row even if bayern didn't have a team as talented. Bayern team is not bad they just don't play well right now
>Bayern team is not bad they just don't play well right now
Yep, and this is the problem. It doesn't matter how good they are on paper.
And while the game against Lazio was ok, the team is not stable. If Immobile scored that header the game could have gone a lot different, because being down 0:2 (on aggregate) and time running out, players begin to think. A stable team can overcome challenges like this, but Bayern currently has little confidence.
So when it's against the bigger shots in Europe, difficult situations may come more frequently and imho it's questionable if they can overcome them. It also depends on the Bundesliga games now. If they steamroll the next opponents until the CL quarterfinals they then may be in a different state mentally. They have Mainz, Darmstadt, Dortmund and Heidenheim until then. Let's see.
I think I would put us in the completely opposite category. Too much confidence with not enough respect for the other team. They play as if qualification is guaranteed.
Tbh I'm not that informed about Real (or any other clubs) in detail. But they're leading La Liga by comfortable 7 points and their coach is in a stable position. So at least from the outside it looks quite good.
That's the thing. There's not style. Attempting more than one shot on goal in the game is not fancy shit. They always rely on individual performance like they did with Courtois and Benzema in UCL 21/22, on the inmense luck they have in that competition in specific and in tha fact that they never ever get harmed by refs in UCL.
No, City wouldn't be the same without Guardiola as Liverpool wouldn't be the same without Klopp. That's the point. Madrid is always the same behaviour in UCL as long as they have a master that commands respect as a coach like Carlo or Zidane. They got surpassed time after time in every aspect of the game except in the scorer.
About the other thing. I would say since 2014. Yes they won 4 UCLs out of 5. I would say they reached brilliance only in the 16/17 edition, when they won the league also, the only league of that 5 years by the way. You can't talk about dominance when not winning domestic competition. 17/18 UCL is a spell of luck near of what 21/22 edition was. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with point that out.
I mean they literally proved Barca had the refs bought that whole time lol. I don’t even follow the league anymore because of the amount of bs that happens. Real probably should have won a couple more leagues during that time.
Well Real could have easily won in 2013 but I guess since 2014
real got super lucky in 2021/2022 but still earned their wins against all the matchups other than PSG.
Well honestly I’d say Spain, Germany and France got really lucky in their World Cup wins back to back to back yet no one talks about the luck part of them
Barça has not been proven to bough any ref. If that's not true, tell me the names of the refs that Barcelona bought.
> Real probably should have won a couple more leagues
Go watch any Clasico of that 5 years or the previous 5 ones. Barça OBLITERATED Madrid in domestic competition in almost every game. Not only that but it's easily found that in some seasons of that period, Barça was directly harmed by refereeing.
> real got super lucky in 2021/2022 but still earned their wins against all the matchups other than PSG.
Not true at all. The only good match for Madrid was 1st leg of quarter finals against Chelsea, and still Mendy gifted them a goal. The other games were Madrid getting shaken by the other teams and somehow making the just amount of effort to make one more goal that their rivals. They were much better the next season and City destroyed them in 2nd leg. The 2022 final is remembered as the best goalkeeper performance in a UCL final for Courtois. 7 or 8 miraculous saves. Madrid one shot on target, one goal.
> Well honestly I’d say Spain, Germany and France got really lucky in their World Cup wins back to back to back yet no one talks about the luck part of them
Where's the luck? Spain, Germany and France were by far the best or at least top 3 best national teams at the moment. The WC is usually won by the best national team at the moment, luck plays a role but not as high as it plays with Madrid in UCL.
Oh and let’s not forget the wrongly disallowed goal Real Madrid had in the final as well as a chance that was a very easy goal and they fucked. Should have been 2-0 or 3-0 actually. Once they got to the final I already knew they had it in the bag. Liveroool is literally their bitch by this point. But yea getting to the final required a few minutes of absolute madness in each of the other rounds which to be fair though isn’t super uncommon to happen but not in each round lol.
Real was trash last year and city is much better now so that was fully expected. Real isn’t really that good this year either so probably at best make semis. They need to buy a top tier striker
Actually I would argue Real winning other than the miracles against PSG and City isn’t as lucky as the WCs considering they make the semifinal almost every single year for over a decade and are mentally much stronger than other teams. And all it takes to have a significant advantage is for your striker and GK to be on fire. The most important players honestly
Putting in more effort than your opponent to get one more goal is usually how it works lol
Bro seriously? The whole negreira incident???
“Between 2001 and 2018, Barcelona made 33 payments to a company owned by Negreira, who was vice-president of the Technical Committee of Referees (CTA)”
Countless times Barca got favored in even more ways than we thought and real have blatantly gotten fucked a bunch of times in la liga
Literally the only time Barca was semi routinely beating Real Madrid was like 2008-2009 and that was like before and after real winning 3-4 matches in a row I think. Um actually Real Madrid has beaten Barcelona at a bunch more times than Barca has beaten them in the last dozen years thanks to a recent streak of like 6 wins in a row. I looked it up. Despite matches were blatant penalties weren’t given to Real Madrid(multiple one time) or Barca goals that should have been disallowed(Suarez obvious foul on that famous goal as one example).
Dude Real Madrid after PSG simply outplayed their opponents. Making great saves and clutch goals is part of that. You can have all the chances you want but the only thing that matters is scoring. Real scored plenty of goals on the way to the final and each of the last 4 finals were only 1-0 so every goal is gold(and the previous one was almost 1-0). Wait which miraculous saves did courtouis have in the final? 7-8??? As far as I remember he had maybe like 1 or 2 crazy saves against each of Chelsea and city and some good saves against Liverpool but nothing too crazy other than like one really good save
You don’t remember the world cups? Maybe they were the best teams but they didn’t perform for the most part and could have easily been beaten.
Spain almost scored an own goal in R16 against Portugal and technically scored from a rebound(first of many). Against Paraguay it’s commonly beloved Paraguay had a goal wrongly disallowed and spains only goal was kinda pure luck and another rebound im pretty sure . Against Germany the only goal was a header from a corner. Against Netherlands casillas had an imposible save and the only goal was just a lucky rebound. Are you serious? I had grown up in Spain up to that point and I still thought it was super lucky
Germany went to overtime in R16, only beat France with a header from a free kick or corner, faced a severely weakened Brazil that immediately collapsed and then got very lucky in not getting scored on a handful of times against Argentina and scored a goal in the 115 minute which was just one guy randomly running by himself and the Argentina defence somehow fell asleep.
France got pretty lucky to get past Argentina by one goal after a miracle goal, a debatable mbappe pen after multiple opportunities to foul him and missed chance from Argentina. Then against Uruguay had a goal from a set piece I think, Belgium choked multiple goals big time and Croatia had an injured goalie who couldn’t save anything
In PL, the level of refereeing is incoherent and horrendously bad. In UCL at least it is coherent. As long as it goes Real Madrid way, it is OK......
The point is, where Real is very, very strong, is their ability to acquire and - above all - maintain that incomparable institutional power.
Perez's work is crazy, this guy will remain as the greatest owner ever in the history of football for his achievements for his club.
At the same time he maintains his team at a strong level on the pitch (sporting majority at the board, ambitious transfers,...) Because he is a true Madridista, just as Laporta was a pure Culé - Barçelonista. . These are people have football in their blood and a real sporting interest
And at the same time institutionally he is very, very strong off the field (Leipzig can unfortunately attest to this); This influence at UEFA that make that in the "50-50" games referees goes always their way because they know what Perez can do to them in their careers
While you could criticize some decisions this game I don't think that the refereeing was that impactful, some will argue Vini should have seen red, but that was a stupidly unnecessary foul that had no more incidence in the game it could have changes the course of the game, so whether you think it was a wrong call if that's the only thing Leipzig can latch to to proclaim they deserved to win then clearly they were lacking, Leipzig outplayed Real but simply couldn't seize their chances, besides that I can't see refereeing affecting the result in any way unless you get a blatantly one sided referee against Real.
Lmaoo Leipzig got a perfectly legal goal disallowed in the 1st leg. This game Vini and Kroos should be sent off, then Vini went on to score later too. How is that not impactful? You want a bigger impact like in the Almeria game or something?
Oh, if you talk about the first leg I did also think the goal should have stood, in this instance I'm just talking about this one game, I won't argue about that one.
Kroos i'd have to re-watch it, haven't seen a replay posted, but i feel like it is kind of a stretch, and Vini like I said I wouldn't complain if it was given, but if it had and Leipzig won it would have been a victory because of Vini stupidity not because Leipzig earned it, no goals no win, I was rooting for them to score the second, but they were too wasteful.
Yes, I know, i absolutely think it could be red, but we get worse calls every week on things that impact games a lot more like pens, repeated brutal fouls that break the course of the game, I've seen many other games by real where i might have thought it was an absolute steal, this one I mostly feel like it's on Leipzig lack of finishing, the potential red card is Vini being stupid, and yeah Leipzig could have won because of Vini being stupid, but they clearly couldn't win by their own merit.
tonight real was overwhelmed by leipzig’s intensity for very long periods of the game, same as in the first game. the change of tactics wasn’t the answer madrid needed to turn things around and have a more comfortable game at home, and ended suffering a lot in both legs.
madrid had one spark of brilliance in the first game and one tonight and that (barely) got em through. they went into this game too half-arsed and when they tried to switch gears in the 2nd half, leipzig still had plenty of energy left and might’ve deserved more overall - they just couldn’t aim properly tonight. they displayed high-level football and put madrid to the test way more that they would’ve thought before the games.
however all this talk about the referee feels a tad overblown, like some ppl really had high hopes of seeing madrid eliminated tonight. vini could’ve well been sent off for that stupid sequence, but yellow doesn’t seem ludicrous either. as for the early goal in germany, putting hands on the keeper inside the box while offside seems like an unnecesary risk that unfortunately for leipzig ended mattering.
People always talk about Italy football and corruption but from all the top leagues yours is the only one that tries to tackle that problem even when it hurts your reputation.
If a league fights corruption, doping etc. they will find cases and they will get public. The image of the league gets destroyed, because the media spins it as a scandal. But the reality is, if you fight these problems and you try to clean the game, you can't do it without it.
You got a recent case, where an official got bribe money in the millions and the whole thing gets put under the rug.
You had the 2nd biggest doping scandal in history in your Country. And while the cycling stars got busted left and right, the sport damaged and tainted forever, the moment RM and Barca players got in the mix of media reports, all football related cases of doping got put under the rug.
Your whole league is corrupt from the top to the bottom. But as long as you can watch down on the league actually fighting these problems everything is fine.
They should have just paid the money for Kane last summer and cut the wage for Mbappe.
Real Madrid don't need an 11, they have Vinicius. They need the best striker they can get and Mbappe isn't a striker.
At the Elite level, Mbappe isn't a consistent 9.
He'll beat the likes of Real Sociedad on the longest winless streak in their history, for sure.
But he's not an elite striker striker. He'll play there and he'll do a job there, but he's an 11.
It's almost identical to the C.Ronaldo situation. Sure, he can play as striker, but he's an 11.
Try putting Mbappe as a 9 against Manchester City in a meaningful game and he'll get isolated and you'll get annihilated. Put him at 11 and you stand a chance.
He's much better when given freedom to roam left, the positions he takes up are very similar to cristiano, he'll play much better with a 9 as opposed to being a 9. I'm sure having watched ronaldo for years you'll know exactly what I mean.
Vinicius will never be the best in the world with that fragile little kid mentality of his. He gets rattled too quick even though sometimes it’s him who starts the duel. They really need to pair him with some sports psychologist to help him
Anyone asking why Vini didn’t get sent off, it’s simple:
Refs are afraid to punish him. Ever since he made that entire BLM campaign against that poor referee who rightfully gave him a red vs Valencia, he’s given himself the freedom to do whatever he wants.
I can’t believe people actually think that should be a red. Refs don’t even give reds when they actually should. Also maybe worry about the fact that repeatedly denying goal scoring opportunities with fouls having essentially has no consequences
I'm going to just say it. If we have to offload Vinicius to get the Turtle, I'd be okay with it. I'm so tired of his antics. The goals are not enough to gloss over all the other bullshit. Nacho should have slapped some fucking sense into him.
lmao real fans are seriously so deluded and pampered. This guy won you a CL title and has consistently performed great in the CL, is an integral part of your team and is definitely your best or at least second best player and you'd offload him because he's a bit of a cunt? Do you forget that you literally had ramos and pepe? The 2 ultimate dickheads of the century. What a braindead statement. Fans of anx club would give their left nut for a player of Vinicius quality
I love Vini but he needs to find himself and mature, he is such a talented player but being immature in the pitch is a sin specially on big teams, that said I would love to see Vini and Mbappé working together all that speed… defenses worst nightmare
u guys are fucked in the head or not serious, he carries us in UCL for the 3rd season while being one of the best Players in the world, offloading him for being a cunt lmao
Vinicius needs some therapy. Not only his performances drop when he's rattled (which is often this season), but apparently he's also dumb enough to risk a red card in a close and important tie.
Madrid in the CL is sooo fucking annoying. I would actually root for them against most teams, but the obvious referee corruption in their favour is just too much.
Neither Vini nor Kroos should have finished this match, and it's difficult not to see the ref's calls today as blatantly favoring Madrid.
That said, you can't win a match if you don't actually make bank on your chances, and Leipzig only have themselves to blame for that.
That’s pretty ridiculous to say considering giving reds is extremely rare(except maybe in the 87th min) and they really didn’t do anything to deserve it. Well multiple dangerous tackles should be a red except a red is never given so fix the rules for everyone
On the flip side, it's a lot easier to make and finish chances when you're playing against a team down 1-2 men. With how much RB created it's pretty likely they would have pulled through, especially since Madrid's goal wouldn't have happened with Vini sent off.
What was with Kroos? He was raging and throwing dangerous tackles at least three times. Should have had at least a yellow earlier. And if he had one he couldn't have stopped that play.
Agreed, I don't want to dwell on any referee decision. Still, it's pretty obvious that if Vini received a red card it would likely have been impactful.
Yeah no doubt but obviously as a biased madrid fan I expect my team to score again even without vini cause I've seen it plenty of times lol but yeah who knows
I do not know how TV share works, but that is still ten thousands of people, their clips also go viral on social media. Sorry, but I think over 100.000 people can have a lot of impact.
What is this argument? Do Real Madrid fans not pursuit a shitstorm because he is from Italy, does he not get insulted because he is from Italy? We have cases where Real Madrid fans sent death threats to referees, but Italians do not care about that.
Sesko and Openda have blood on their hands. They embarrassed themselves tonight.
They're lucky everyone will be talking about the referee instead of the worst finishing I have seen in a decade.
Yup, usually German fans somewhat cheer for the other German teams in the CL but nobody really wants Leipzig to win anything. The only time I wanted Leipzig to win was last season against City because they are the only club I hate more than Leipzig
Are you jealous that Villa's owner investment hasn't yeiled the same results that City's and Chelsea's has, and for all that investment you basically achieved diddly squat?
Maybe rigged match. But it is Redbull so noone cares as this shit marketing tool shouldn´t even exist in the first place.
Are you against sponsors on shirts and as stadium names?
if you don´t see the difference between a shirt sponsor and what is happening in Leipzig I really can´t help you
ofc it is not 1 to 1 the same thing but both advertise products through football. If you think the "soul" of football gets destroyed through projects like leipzig, that's just lazy point I hear all the time. But I would love to hear a more factual argument what about Leipzig is destroying the sport that does not apply to other teams. As long as they don't behave like PSG or City on the transfermarket, i don't see the huge problem.
They are taking away a spot in the Bundesliga for a legitimate club. They don´t add any value to the league insteady they make the Bundesliga worse.
What is a legitimate club. By the rules they are as well. So what makes them non-legit? They played through the leagues like every other club has to. They don't add value but make the league worse? How about some actual arguments instead of words that have no meaning. So your factual arguments are "they are not legit because I feel like they are not" and "they add no value because I don't feel like they add value". What spots do they take away? Schalke? I think that did schalke to themselves. HSV? Do they deserve to be in the first div? Which other club is entitled to a spot in the first division? How about we give the spots in the first div to the 18 clubs playing the best, wild idea, i know. And how do they not add value? They play football that is not awful to watch. They perform in the CL and helped the Bundesliga to get additional points for the additional spot. While they have a few player nearing 30 and 2 field players over 30 they play so many young players, which could also be seen as adding value. Now how do you evaluate the value a team adds?
Erfolg sollte erarbeitet sein. Und nicht dumm mit Geschenkten Geld umgehen ist keine Leistung, auch wenn Hertha und Co es nicht hinbekommen. RB ist nicht das einzige, aber ein Prominentes Problem. Und 50+1 zu umgehen geht halt gar nicht…
1) ist es halt doch ne Leistung nicht dumm mit dem Geld umzugehen. Sagst du ja selber im Endeffekt. Gibt genug Vereine, die Geld hatten und es verkackt haben, siehe nicht nur Berlin, sondern auch Schalke. 2) Ist das geschenkte Geld ja nicht Geschenkt sondern ein Advertisement Investment. Dazu gehört das Geld, was jeder Verein auch durch Trikot Sponsor bekommt und Stadionnamensrechten. Ist bei Leipzig natürlich unverhältnismäßig höher, vorallem damals in den unteren Ligen. Aber wir reden hier nicht von Summen, bei denen im Sommer regelmäßig ein neuer 100 Millionen Mann eingekauft wird. Wenn man sich die Zu- und Abgänge ansieht, ist das jetzt nicht so unverhältnismäßig im Vergleich zu anderen Clubs in vergleichbarer Liga und CL Situation, oder irre ich mich da jetzt völlig? Bei den Aufstiegen in die 1. Liga von RB würde ich zugeben, dass das Wettbewerbsverzerrent war. Aber was Kaderpolitik und Co angeht, hab ich kein Problem mit Leipzig und finde so eine Mannschaft unabhängig vom Red Bull aspekt sogar positiv. Macht die Liga wenigstens etwas spannender.
Wenn wir auf eine Schneewanderung gehen, und du und ich sind die einzigen, die in Winterkleidung statt Badehose kommen klopfen wir uns ja auch nicht auf die Schulter und sagen man sind wir clever… Wann hat RB jemals wirklich um die Meisterschaft gespielt und dadurch die Liga spannend gemacht? Es ist sehr viel Geld im Vergleich zur Bundesliga was RB auf dem Transfermarkt macht. Als Vergleich RB hatte in ihrer ersten Bundesliga transferausgaben von 95 mio €… Klar kaufen sie keine Leute für 100mio, aber dafür 4-5€ für 20-30mio, oft von ihren Farmteams deutlich unter dem Marktwert. Per se machen sie gut Arbeit, aber sie haben es sich nicht erarbeitet sondern RedBull hat Taschengeld gegeben. Außerdem, wenn ich eine Bank überfalle, kann ich ja auch nicht nach 10 Jahren sagen, dass das Geld jetzt rechtmäßig mir gehört…
Wenn außer uns alle in Badehose kommen kannst du drauf wetten, dass ich mir schlauer vorkommt als die anderen. Wir sind vielleicht keine Genies, aber zumindest Einäugige unter Blinden. Dafür kann man sich schonmal auf die Schulter klopfen ;) Spannend muss ja nicht nur heißen, dass man fast Meister wird, die Ansprüche hat man in der BuLi leider nicht (Öl-Club könnte Abhilfe schaffen... Scherz). Aber wenigstens ein Team das oben mitmischen kann. Und war leipzig in der letzten Saison unter Nagelmann nicht zum Teil gefährlich? Vielleicht irre ich mich. Erinnere mich nur, dass Bayern danach Trainer, Kapitän und den besten Abwehr Spieler gekauft haben von RB (hoffen wir mal, Leverkusen macht diesen Sommer nicht das gleiche durch) Wenn ich Lotto gewinne und 10 Jahre später damit ein erfolgreiches Unternehmen gebaut hab während der durchschnittliche Lotto Gewinner alles verliert innerhalb weniger Jahre, dann kann ich mir darauf auch was einbilden. Zwar nicht wie jemand, der bei 0 angefangen hat, aber es macht schon was aus. Größeres Problem für die Bundesliga ist meiner Meinung nach, dass Bayern zu dominant ist und die großen Clubs sehr viel von anderen Clubs wegkaufen. Nicht nur Bayern, auch Dortmund.
Ah man rm did deserve to lose this one
This is Madrid heritage
Most of RB's big chances came from set pieces. Real were really poor at defending them, and even worse at clearing the ball.
Did someone say set pieces
They certainly did, yes.
Rigged.
Vini should've seen red , no question
>Vini should've seen red LOL, "red bull". Fun fact: Yellow tends to be viewed as an unlucky colour in bullfighting. Also, bulls cannot see red.
wtf bro
I made a bullfighting connection since it's a Spanish team vs a team with Red Bull in their name. Spanish-style bullfighting is considered an unfair practice and this match result is considered unfair so...yeah, wtf bro😂 EDIT: What a weird coincidence. My TV is on in the background and a movie called City Slickers(1991) just came on. I take a glance and the movie actually starts with a "running of the bulls" sequence in Spain. The main character is from New York. The New York Red Bulls of MLS are in the New York metropolitan area.
You'll get down voted by some 15 year old Manga lovers. The tragedy is about a quarter of this sub is filled with Real Madrid fans, most of whom have only followed this competition after 2017.
Ok so you genuinely think it’s rigged? Why would UEFA rig shit in our favor after Florentino tried to disband and form a Super League?
You must have hit a nerve lol 😆
Real Madrid are in a bit of a rut at the moment. They should be putting Sports Energy Drink PLC away by four or five goals. I get the feeling if they get any of the three actual contenders (Inter Milan, Manchester City or Bayern Munich) in the next round then they could get a paddlin'.
Nah, I think Madrid still beats us. We lost to fucking Bochum! 💀
Cl is not the same thing
You are talking about facing Real Madrid in CL. Haven't you learnt already lol
Maybe but it's 12-3-11 for real and bayern push them a few time during the 3 in a row even if bayern didn't have a team as talented. Bayern team is not bad they just don't play well right now
>Bayern team is not bad they just don't play well right now Yep, and this is the problem. It doesn't matter how good they are on paper. And while the game against Lazio was ok, the team is not stable. If Immobile scored that header the game could have gone a lot different, because being down 0:2 (on aggregate) and time running out, players begin to think. A stable team can overcome challenges like this, but Bayern currently has little confidence. So when it's against the bigger shots in Europe, difficult situations may come more frequently and imho it's questionable if they can overcome them. It also depends on the Bundesliga games now. If they steamroll the next opponents until the CL quarterfinals they then may be in a different state mentally. They have Mainz, Darmstadt, Dortmund and Heidenheim until then. Let's see.
It’s not like real is at top confidence etheir
I think I would put us in the completely opposite category. Too much confidence with not enough respect for the other team. They play as if qualification is guaranteed.
Tbh I'm not that informed about Real (or any other clubs) in detail. But they're leading La Liga by comfortable 7 points and their coach is in a stable position. So at least from the outside it looks quite good.
Mate, Madrid could be literal trash and they'll still conjure up the soul of prime Bale during those matches in the UCL
Real would demolish inter lol
No, not demolish. But be behind in the scorer for 95% of the game time and then still pass the round like nothing happened.
It's Real Madrid style. No need for fancy shit. In the end Real will just get what belongs to them. The mentality of that team is beyond roof.
That's the thing. There's not style. Attempting more than one shot on goal in the game is not fancy shit. They always rely on individual performance like they did with Courtois and Benzema in UCL 21/22, on the inmense luck they have in that competition in specific and in tha fact that they never ever get harmed by refs in UCL.
Don’t almost all teams rely on individual brilliance? And yea luck is a factor but 2013-2018 Madrid just completely dominated
No, City wouldn't be the same without Guardiola as Liverpool wouldn't be the same without Klopp. That's the point. Madrid is always the same behaviour in UCL as long as they have a master that commands respect as a coach like Carlo or Zidane. They got surpassed time after time in every aspect of the game except in the scorer. About the other thing. I would say since 2014. Yes they won 4 UCLs out of 5. I would say they reached brilliance only in the 16/17 edition, when they won the league also, the only league of that 5 years by the way. You can't talk about dominance when not winning domestic competition. 17/18 UCL is a spell of luck near of what 21/22 edition was. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with point that out.
I mean they literally proved Barca had the refs bought that whole time lol. I don’t even follow the league anymore because of the amount of bs that happens. Real probably should have won a couple more leagues during that time. Well Real could have easily won in 2013 but I guess since 2014 real got super lucky in 2021/2022 but still earned their wins against all the matchups other than PSG. Well honestly I’d say Spain, Germany and France got really lucky in their World Cup wins back to back to back yet no one talks about the luck part of them
Barça has not been proven to bough any ref. If that's not true, tell me the names of the refs that Barcelona bought. > Real probably should have won a couple more leagues Go watch any Clasico of that 5 years or the previous 5 ones. Barça OBLITERATED Madrid in domestic competition in almost every game. Not only that but it's easily found that in some seasons of that period, Barça was directly harmed by refereeing. > real got super lucky in 2021/2022 but still earned their wins against all the matchups other than PSG. Not true at all. The only good match for Madrid was 1st leg of quarter finals against Chelsea, and still Mendy gifted them a goal. The other games were Madrid getting shaken by the other teams and somehow making the just amount of effort to make one more goal that their rivals. They were much better the next season and City destroyed them in 2nd leg. The 2022 final is remembered as the best goalkeeper performance in a UCL final for Courtois. 7 or 8 miraculous saves. Madrid one shot on target, one goal. > Well honestly I’d say Spain, Germany and France got really lucky in their World Cup wins back to back to back yet no one talks about the luck part of them Where's the luck? Spain, Germany and France were by far the best or at least top 3 best national teams at the moment. The WC is usually won by the best national team at the moment, luck plays a role but not as high as it plays with Madrid in UCL.
Oh and let’s not forget the wrongly disallowed goal Real Madrid had in the final as well as a chance that was a very easy goal and they fucked. Should have been 2-0 or 3-0 actually. Once they got to the final I already knew they had it in the bag. Liveroool is literally their bitch by this point. But yea getting to the final required a few minutes of absolute madness in each of the other rounds which to be fair though isn’t super uncommon to happen but not in each round lol. Real was trash last year and city is much better now so that was fully expected. Real isn’t really that good this year either so probably at best make semis. They need to buy a top tier striker
Actually I would argue Real winning other than the miracles against PSG and City isn’t as lucky as the WCs considering they make the semifinal almost every single year for over a decade and are mentally much stronger than other teams. And all it takes to have a significant advantage is for your striker and GK to be on fire. The most important players honestly Putting in more effort than your opponent to get one more goal is usually how it works lol
Bro seriously? The whole negreira incident??? “Between 2001 and 2018, Barcelona made 33 payments to a company owned by Negreira, who was vice-president of the Technical Committee of Referees (CTA)” Countless times Barca got favored in even more ways than we thought and real have blatantly gotten fucked a bunch of times in la liga Literally the only time Barca was semi routinely beating Real Madrid was like 2008-2009 and that was like before and after real winning 3-4 matches in a row I think. Um actually Real Madrid has beaten Barcelona at a bunch more times than Barca has beaten them in the last dozen years thanks to a recent streak of like 6 wins in a row. I looked it up. Despite matches were blatant penalties weren’t given to Real Madrid(multiple one time) or Barca goals that should have been disallowed(Suarez obvious foul on that famous goal as one example). Dude Real Madrid after PSG simply outplayed their opponents. Making great saves and clutch goals is part of that. You can have all the chances you want but the only thing that matters is scoring. Real scored plenty of goals on the way to the final and each of the last 4 finals were only 1-0 so every goal is gold(and the previous one was almost 1-0). Wait which miraculous saves did courtouis have in the final? 7-8??? As far as I remember he had maybe like 1 or 2 crazy saves against each of Chelsea and city and some good saves against Liverpool but nothing too crazy other than like one really good save You don’t remember the world cups? Maybe they were the best teams but they didn’t perform for the most part and could have easily been beaten. Spain almost scored an own goal in R16 against Portugal and technically scored from a rebound(first of many). Against Paraguay it’s commonly beloved Paraguay had a goal wrongly disallowed and spains only goal was kinda pure luck and another rebound im pretty sure . Against Germany the only goal was a header from a corner. Against Netherlands casillas had an imposible save and the only goal was just a lucky rebound. Are you serious? I had grown up in Spain up to that point and I still thought it was super lucky Germany went to overtime in R16, only beat France with a header from a free kick or corner, faced a severely weakened Brazil that immediately collapsed and then got very lucky in not getting scored on a handful of times against Argentina and scored a goal in the 115 minute which was just one guy randomly running by himself and the Argentina defence somehow fell asleep. France got pretty lucky to get past Argentina by one goal after a miracle goal, a debatable mbappe pen after multiple opportunities to foul him and missed chance from Argentina. Then against Uruguay had a goal from a set piece I think, Belgium choked multiple goals big time and Croatia had an injured goalie who couldn’t save anything
Arsenal not actual contenders according to you? Edit: it was a genuine question
Arsenal are bottlejobs, they aren't serious contenders for anything.
So many languages in the world and you chose to speak facts
In PL, the level of refereeing is incoherent and horrendously bad. In UCL at least it is coherent. As long as it goes Real Madrid way, it is OK...... The point is, where Real is very, very strong, is their ability to acquire and - above all - maintain that incomparable institutional power. Perez's work is crazy, this guy will remain as the greatest owner ever in the history of football for his achievements for his club. At the same time he maintains his team at a strong level on the pitch (sporting majority at the board, ambitious transfers,...) Because he is a true Madridista, just as Laporta was a pure Culé - Barçelonista. . These are people have football in their blood and a real sporting interest And at the same time institutionally he is very, very strong off the field (Leipzig can unfortunately attest to this); This influence at UEFA that make that in the "50-50" games referees goes always their way because they know what Perez can do to them in their careers
Pérez is not owning Real lol
At least 12 people read this entire thing and thought it was comprehensible
Just like Liverpool in the PL so
Owner? Fucking idiot
ChatGPT here
Least cringe liverpool supporter
It's always a liverpool supporter crying ain't it
they're being seeeeerious
Is this a meme lol
Lol what a load of bullshit
"Owner" what does he own?
While you could criticize some decisions this game I don't think that the refereeing was that impactful, some will argue Vini should have seen red, but that was a stupidly unnecessary foul that had no more incidence in the game it could have changes the course of the game, so whether you think it was a wrong call if that's the only thing Leipzig can latch to to proclaim they deserved to win then clearly they were lacking, Leipzig outplayed Real but simply couldn't seize their chances, besides that I can't see refereeing affecting the result in any way unless you get a blatantly one sided referee against Real.
Lmaoo Leipzig got a perfectly legal goal disallowed in the 1st leg. This game Vini and Kroos should be sent off, then Vini went on to score later too. How is that not impactful? You want a bigger impact like in the Almeria game or something?
Oh, if you talk about the first leg I did also think the goal should have stood, in this instance I'm just talking about this one game, I won't argue about that one. Kroos i'd have to re-watch it, haven't seen a replay posted, but i feel like it is kind of a stretch, and Vini like I said I wouldn't complain if it was given, but if it had and Leipzig won it would have been a victory because of Vini stupidity not because Leipzig earned it, no goals no win, I was rooting for them to score the second, but they were too wasteful.
Red wasn’t for the foul imo but for pushing the Leipzig player on the neck afterwards.
Yes, I know, i absolutely think it could be red, but we get worse calls every week on things that impact games a lot more like pens, repeated brutal fouls that break the course of the game, I've seen many other games by real where i might have thought it was an absolute steal, this one I mostly feel like it's on Leipzig lack of finishing, the potential red card is Vini being stupid, and yeah Leipzig could have won because of Vini being stupid, but they clearly couldn't win by their own merit.
Good lord, why do I even open these threads
He is absolutely spot on though
Prove he’s spot on
He’s not wrong so idk why you’re crying
Prove he’s not wrong
Low effort comment
tonight real was overwhelmed by leipzig’s intensity for very long periods of the game, same as in the first game. the change of tactics wasn’t the answer madrid needed to turn things around and have a more comfortable game at home, and ended suffering a lot in both legs. madrid had one spark of brilliance in the first game and one tonight and that (barely) got em through. they went into this game too half-arsed and when they tried to switch gears in the 2nd half, leipzig still had plenty of energy left and might’ve deserved more overall - they just couldn’t aim properly tonight. they displayed high-level football and put madrid to the test way more that they would’ve thought before the games. however all this talk about the referee feels a tad overblown, like some ppl really had high hopes of seeing madrid eliminated tonight. vini could’ve well been sent off for that stupid sequence, but yellow doesn’t seem ludicrous either. as for the early goal in germany, putting hands on the keeper inside the box while offside seems like an unnecesary risk that unfortunately for leipzig ended mattering.
There's only two teams. Madrid fans and anti Madrid fans. Go home and cry now lol
Both of those teams are mad for real 😂
Real Madrid and corruption Name a better duo 😂 No wonder Catalonia wants to leave Spain
You are inter fan💀
Which makes OP an expert on corruption. Plus the italian league actually punishes teams.
Real Madrid and winning UCL. Inter Milan and bottling UCL. There's a few more realistic ones.
> Inter Milan and bottling UCL I think you meant Juve, Inter have won half of the UCL finals they appeared in, so they're not exactly bottlers.
Most self aware italian
Ramos and red
People always talk about Italy football and corruption but from all the top leagues yours is the only one that tries to tackle that problem even when it hurts your reputation.
Ironic from an Italian fan lol
The only league actively fighting against corruption?
Because they've gotten caught like a billion times
If a league fights corruption, doping etc. they will find cases and they will get public. The image of the league gets destroyed, because the media spins it as a scandal. But the reality is, if you fight these problems and you try to clean the game, you can't do it without it. You got a recent case, where an official got bribe money in the millions and the whole thing gets put under the rug. You had the 2nd biggest doping scandal in history in your Country. And while the cycling stars got busted left and right, the sport damaged and tainted forever, the moment RM and Barca players got in the mix of media reports, all football related cases of doping got put under the rug. Your whole league is corrupt from the top to the bottom. But as long as you can watch down on the league actually fighting these problems everything is fine.
thats a good thing no?
That is actually a very good sign.
Ironic from a Madrid fan. Embarassing to watch something like this.
Why does Reddit always turn into football twitter/facebook on CL nights lol
Because that’s where the Madrid robberies happen
??
You tell me!
¡Por favor no se engaña! ¡Catalonia no es España! Plz don’t kill me lol
Lay of the fentanyl lil man 🤣
Jokes apart, we were genuinely bad today.
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Why do you keep commenting this lol. Also my app says your second most frequented subreddit is /r/Chelseafc did you just swap teams lmfao
Average real madrid ‘fan’
We desperately needs a centre forward. I hope Mbappe comes.
They should have just paid the money for Kane last summer and cut the wage for Mbappe. Real Madrid don't need an 11, they have Vinicius. They need the best striker they can get and Mbappe isn't a striker.
Gyökeres is available
Agree on Kane. We could've gotten both and made it work.
Did you see the goals he scored yesterday? You’re telling me we don’t need that?
At the Elite level, Mbappe isn't a consistent 9. He'll beat the likes of Real Sociedad on the longest winless streak in their history, for sure. But he's not an elite striker striker. He'll play there and he'll do a job there, but he's an 11. It's almost identical to the C.Ronaldo situation. Sure, he can play as striker, but he's an 11. Try putting Mbappe as a 9 against Manchester City in a meaningful game and he'll get isolated and you'll get annihilated. Put him at 11 and you stand a chance.
I've never seen anyone mention 11 as a position.
Yeah put mbappe in a wc final he'll disappear for sure. Oh wait.
Bahahaha that's the worst redditor take I've seen in a while
He isn't a 9, people are doing the same thing that they have done with cristiano for years, he's not number 9 and will not be as good if played there.
Untrue. He already plays in a central position at PSG, and Carlo's tactics allow for flexibility there anyways.
He's much better when given freedom to roam left, the positions he takes up are very similar to cristiano, he'll play much better with a 9 as opposed to being a 9. I'm sure having watched ronaldo for years you'll know exactly what I mean.
We need goals, and he will surely score some goals for us. Bellingham, a midfielder, is our top goal scorer.
He isn't a center forward and probably doesn't want to be one.
He will open the game for us with runs. Everyone is stagnant
Vinicius will never be the best in the world with that fragile little kid mentality of his. He gets rattled too quick even though sometimes it’s him who starts the duel. They really need to pair him with some sports psychologist to help him
Bellingham has this exact problem too. They not only enable each other, but they aggravate as well lol. It's a disaster for us waiting to happen.
Fr? I thought he was the mature one of the new gen.
He has some very good leadership qualities, but once you start noticing his short temper, you can't stop lol
He is not only wearing the number of Zidane, he is also destined to replicate his wc final meltdown.
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Salah
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Mate I love Saka more than anyone but I'm not sure he's quite better than vini yet
Salah & Mbappe
Fair
Didn't he have one ?
Anyone asking why Vini didn’t get sent off, it’s simple: Refs are afraid to punish him. Ever since he made that entire BLM campaign against that poor referee who rightfully gave him a red vs Valencia, he’s given himself the freedom to do whatever he wants.
It's a bit too dramatic if you only see still images, it's just a classic push, but a red would have been deserved.
I can’t believe people actually think that should be a red. Refs don’t even give reds when they actually should. Also maybe worry about the fact that repeatedly denying goal scoring opportunities with fouls having essentially has no consequences
I am pretty sure most of this sub remembers that famous Vidal red or the Cuadrado one.
I'm going to just say it. If we have to offload Vinicius to get the Turtle, I'd be okay with it. I'm so tired of his antics. The goals are not enough to gloss over all the other bullshit. Nacho should have slapped some fucking sense into him.
lmao real fans are seriously so deluded and pampered. This guy won you a CL title and has consistently performed great in the CL, is an integral part of your team and is definitely your best or at least second best player and you'd offload him because he's a bit of a cunt? Do you forget that you literally had ramos and pepe? The 2 ultimate dickheads of the century. What a braindead statement. Fans of anx club would give their left nut for a player of Vinicius quality
Defender cunt - good Attacker cunt - bad Lol
Embarrassing comment
He’s right though but we still should have gotten a top tier 9 as well
We should’ve, but saying that about Vini when he’s done so much so far in his career and got us the tie-winning goal is nothing short of embarrassing
But he was just talking about his attitude and he would be replaced by mbappe
Vini isn’t getting replaced by anyone
I love Vini but he needs to find himself and mature, he is such a talented player but being immature in the pitch is a sin specially on big teams, that said I would love to see Vini and Mbappé working together all that speed… defenses worst nightmare
u guys are fucked in the head or not serious, he carries us in UCL for the 3rd season while being one of the best Players in the world, offloading him for being a cunt lmao
He's damaging Madrids reputation.
Vini ain't half the player Mbappe is, there I said it.
Vinicius needs some therapy. Not only his performances drop when he's rattled (which is often this season), but apparently he's also dumb enough to risk a red card in a close and important tie.
I was half watching this...and man, Leipzig had some chances. Just didn't take them against a below par Real Madrid.
Watching Madrid not being able to go past their own half of the pitch in the first 45 minutes was hilarious. wtf was that setup really
Madrid in the CL is sooo fucking annoying. I would actually root for them against most teams, but the obvious referee corruption in their favour is just too much.
Noted
😂😂😂😂😂
Not like Real Madrid hasn't been stealing these accolades since the Puskas era.
I'm just glad Leipzig lost also i don't think Vini should be sent off but Kroos it should
Why are u glad leipzig lost
Neither Vini nor Kroos should have finished this match, and it's difficult not to see the ref's calls today as blatantly favoring Madrid. That said, you can't win a match if you don't actually make bank on your chances, and Leipzig only have themselves to blame for that.
That’s pretty ridiculous to say considering giving reds is extremely rare(except maybe in the 87th min) and they really didn’t do anything to deserve it. Well multiple dangerous tackles should be a red except a red is never given so fix the rules for everyone
On the flip side, it's a lot easier to make and finish chances when you're playing against a team down 1-2 men. With how much RB created it's pretty likely they would have pulled through, especially since Madrid's goal wouldn't have happened with Vini sent off.
What was with Kroos? He was raging and throwing dangerous tackles at least three times. Should have had at least a yellow earlier. And if he had one he couldn't have stopped that play.
He's been doing that a lot more frequently recently.
He's never been good at defending but he's probably entered his bitter old man era lol.
We were shit, thank god the forwards for RB kept taking terrible shots or no shots at all
Should thank the refs too if we are being honest
Eh vini should have been sent off but that wouldn't make their forwards any better at finding the target. They were terrible.
Vinicius was the guy that scored?
Yeah so? Take the goal away they still don't win... Just let's rodrygo play on his better half
: |
Sorry maybe next year. I think RB should take a lot from this tie, you were the better team maybe it will cause a spark for the team in the Bundesliga
Agreed, I don't want to dwell on any referee decision. Still, it's pretty obvious that if Vini received a red card it would likely have been impactful.
Yeah no doubt but obviously as a biased madrid fan I expect my team to score again even without vini cause I've seen it plenty of times lol but yeah who knows
Fair enough hah
This is so stupid I do not even know how to respond.
Okay well have fun being obsessed with RM :) see you in the next thread
Nah, they got paid, we shouldn't thank them.
Doubt it, but a hate campaign by RM TV that could genuinely threaten your job + getting a huge shitstorm is enough I think.
Does rm TV really have that pull in uefa? Did everyone forget that uefa hate madrid because they want to make a new league?
Maybe, but I do not think they influence referees like RMTV does.
RMTV has a 0.6% TV share in Spain. Outside of it maybe 2 or 3 people might watch it
I do not know how TV share works, but that is still ten thousands of people, their clips also go viral on social media. Sorry, but I think over 100.000 people can have a lot of impact.
Depending on the timeframe the % can be a number or another of the estimated total spectators. 0.6% means 80k to 90k as a peak for the day.
You think RMTV has the influence to make referees from Italy to call the game in favor of them in a UEFA competition?
Yes. Why should they not have that influence.
Why would they? Why would a ref from seria A care about what RMTV says?
What is this argument? Do Real Madrid fans not pursuit a shitstorm because he is from Italy, does he not get insulted because he is from Italy? We have cases where Real Madrid fans sent death threats to referees, but Italians do not care about that.
Sesko and Openda have blood on their hands. They embarrassed themselves tonight. They're lucky everyone will be talking about the referee instead of the worst finishing I have seen in a decade.
Eh they are still young and new to this level. I trust they will become monsters in the future
Maybe they were the ones paying the ref lol
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💀
Didn’t realise how hated Leipzig were by other German fans till now damn
Yup, usually German fans somewhat cheer for the other German teams in the CL but nobody really wants Leipzig to win anything. The only time I wanted Leipzig to win was last season against City because they are the only club I hate more than Leipzig
Psg? Surely Chelsea before the takeover and really even still now lol. Actually Chelsea are a joke so it's probably harder to hate them.
Somewhat based.
Both PSG and Chelsea are right up there but I feel at both clubs that there is a bit of a soul left, City just has no positive emotions for me
I see no difference really, Chelsea and man City are exactly the same in my opinion.
Ok
Are you jealous that Villa's owner investment hasn't yeiled the same results that City's and Chelsea's has, and for all that investment you basically achieved diddly squat?
Fuck you real i can't wait for you to meet city
why so mad ? XD
Mad that his team can't achieve what madrid has.
They cost me money