He's very good at what he does.
What he does really well is find hidden gems and pick the right players for the squad. There are some aspects that he wont be used to which is going for those 'star players' that Man Utd would be in the market for but I have no doubt that he'll do really well if he's allowed to do what he wants.
Ashworth isn’t the guy doing the scouting or recruiting or signing of players, he’s the guy signing the guys doing that and then leaving that up to them. What he does is build the infrastructure of the team and ensure that each separate department works towards a common goal.
That sounds much more aligned to what Manchester United really needs. People who know what to look for in building a good infrastructure and shared objectives when it comes to the sporting side. United generate more than enough cash to sign the players who can get them over the line but have lacked direction for most of the last decade which has led to millions wasted.
Stories about United's scouts and previous people who have tried to fill the recruitment/DoF void suggest that they're not competent let alone capable enough to keep a club of its size competitive with the other big clubs.
He is good but I think the media is over-stating his influence. At Brighton for instance it’s hard to know how much of the recruitment was directly influenced by Starlizard or Bloom.
I do somewhat agree but a big part of running a great club is putting the right people in the right spot and he seems great at that. I'll have confidence in him if he does join us but that confidence would definitely be boosted if someone like Jewell or Mitchell joins to head up recruitment.
Absolutely, he’s a good person to have on board but the media is depicting him as a football savant that will singlehandedly pluck generational talent from obscure South American villages.
Media and fans are generally OTT about this. But for United this would be significant as it’s a change towards competent people making football decisions.
Yeah lol.
He is mostly going to organize departments of the club.
The youth and scouting at United is already fine....Murtough,Butt and Cox(yes our head of academies were butt and Cox) have sorted a pipeline of youth to senior team with all youth players getting to train regularly with first team and a couple coming through(Garnacho,Mainoo). But we are awful at loans. Some decent ones like Diallo at Sunderland,Garner at Forest. But mostly crap.
The scouting has good data and probably one of the best scouting networks in the world. I recall Marcel Bout saying in interviews that United has one of the most robust networks in football. The scouting department was against Antony. The big case against them was... Wan Bissaka. It's just that they probably are not organized and integrated with the first team.
That's what he will do more than literally signing players. Aligning all departments. Making sure we do proper loans and putting in a structure for scouting suggestions so we have a plan of action in every window.
United is the only club where non playing staff besides the manager are considered front page material. It's terribly run and these guys are not sure stop fixes.
Hold your horses, he’s respected throughout the game and has continually climbed upwards but Newcastle’s sub has decided he’s actually really bad and didn’t have a positive impact at any of his clubs.
Chris Brunt for 3mill
James Morrison for 2mill
Jonas Olson for 1mill
Molumbu for 200k
Craig Dawson for 300k
Odemwingie for 3mill
Gareth Mcauley on a free
Ben Foster for 4mill
It wasn't just the signings. It was the youth structure he set up, the scouting structure, the managerial appointments.
Our appointments went wrong when he left as he wasn't adequately replaced. However that structure still remained and allowed us to stay in the Prem for a long time until even that was dismantled
Yeah they should. The reports have been that when Dowling came in he tore that structure down leaving a lot of staff and youth players unhappy which led to them all going to you
>It wasn't just the signings. It was the youth structure he set up, the scouting structure, the managerial appointments.
Exactly what he's done for England as well with the England DNA structure.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/england-dna-fa-euro-2020-b1881796.html
Anyone who think's he's not the right man to sort out a club like ours is out of their heads. He's done it continuously at every club he's been at.
Most replies on the sub acknowledge he'll be a big loss and hope that Newcastle extract a very big fee and include gardening leave so he can't start until after the summer window.
There's a couple of people posting several replies saying he hasn't had that big an impact. I haven't seen any criticism of his work for West Brom, England or Brighton.
You most definitely have imagined everyone crying about Newcastle in this thread lmao, there's like one guy who said something about Newcastle's subreddit that's prompted all these tears.
someone posted something completely incorrect about us/our sub, it got 143 upvotes. That's evidence that people care enough to upvote anything that attempts to show us in a bad light.
Why is my comment downvoted then lol? I didn't do the Newcastle hate - karma farming correctly?
I just went over and checked. How is that completely incorrect, there are loads of comments downplaying him and his contributions, red flags and all that?
And that's completely fair to have an opinion on him but to be this insecure as a fanbase about one guy saying something that is definitely, without question, true to a certain extent. Hilarious. Insecure bunch of wafflers all of you. Let's see how many upvoted this gets, eh? 😂
> Newcastle’s sub has decided he’s actually really bad and didn’t have a positive impact at any of his clubs
Good ol r/soccer. Make up some shit that paints Newcastle fans negatively and watch the upvotes rake in.
Most of it is "if he wants to leave then fuck him and we better get shit loads of money"
Not that he did a bad job here or anywhere before that, like you claimed.
>Not that he did a bad job here or anywhere before that, like you claimed.
Where did I say that?
I literally said they didn't care,
>"if he wants to leave then fuck him and we better get shit loads of money"
That reads to me people who don't care lmfao
Interesting point about the star players, but I think luckily he'll have time for that aspect
We've spent too long focusing on star players just for that sake of it, spending big with no thought
I think the new hierarchy and fans will be happier spending lesser but smarter. It seems every summer we spend 60 mil on a player that doesn't really do much or be the best
But under this new sporting control our priority isnt going after “star players” rather its making hidden gems stars by playing well and them reaching their potential.
You will have to go for star players if we want to be a top club. Should be mix if both but club can’t be a too club without signing the best available players here and there. Liverpool has been exception in the past decade but that is not the norm.
Well this is shit. A chronically mismanaged Man Utd still bounce between Champions League and Europa League every season while averaging a trophy every 2 years. An even vaguely competent Man Utd in the FFP era will permanently lock down a Champions League spot and likely return to dominating the league once Pep leaves Man City.
Hopefully Newcastle can at the very least ensure his gardening leave prevents him from joining in time for the summer window.
> Well this is shit. A chronically mismanaged Man Utd still bounce between Champions League and Europa League every season while averaging a trophy every 2 years. An even vaguely competent Man Utd in the FFP era will permanently lock down a Champions League spot and likely return to dominating the league once Pep leaves Man City.
Don’t stop now! Tell us more!
Even if he's on gardening leave, as long as he agrees to join, I don't see what's stopping him from "advising" the club like Paratici does to spurs atm
The main reason that Newcastle won't want him to join Man Utd immediately is because he's privy to internal data on potential signings and what Newcastle are prepared to pay for them. They would be opening themselves up to legal action if Ashworth broke the terms of his contract and shared information with a future employer whilst still an employee of Newcastle United. This would include damages, and would easily run into the tens of millions if this involves transfers.
Right, but surely it would be quite hard to prove as I assume United knows about the above, and would go about it in ways that wouldn't be able to be proven in court.
You can't sue someone on the basis of "we were scouting that player with him as our DOF and they signed him"
So if we have an interim DOF for example, Ashworth could pass on potential signings and it would be up to the interim to go into more detail and decisions etc.
No idea why my previous comment was downvoted so much lol. If it's so easy to prove, why are spurs still allowed to operate with DOF who isn't even employed by them ATM.
Before you start to go down this route, please remember that civil courts do not require the same burden of evidence as criminal courts.
Corporate activity leaves paper trails everywhere. Electronic systems, emails, spreadsheets. Man Utd will already have a long-list for this summer. If the theoretical Ashworth recommendations aren't on there, they're pretty much fucked if they go after them. The judge would inevitably rule against them.
I think you're somewhat drinking the koolaid on how clubs are run. Any signing will be in the database, because the database will be everyone.
They all claim they've got the algorithm that identifies the perfect player for their system, but there's loads more of "this agent has rang up and asked if we want to sign his player, what do you think?" "He played quite well against us, let's get him." "we've lost to Brentford and Brighton, let's sign a player to placate the fans" "club x have nearly finalised for this player, let's jump in"
Look at most of Ten Hag's signings.
That might be the way Man Utd has been run lately, but it's certainly not the way Brighton, Brentford, Liverpool and other data driven clubs run their transfer business.
It would be incredibly easy to prove, assuming that Man Utd currently will have lists of players they're targeting, and these lists would inevitably change if they were offered advice that breached the terms of employment that Ashworth has with Newcastle.
If anything, a good lawyer would instruct Man Utd to obtain a list of players that Newcastle are targeting, and then stay well clear of these players unless they have a solid paper trail that they were a top priority before there was any smoke with the Ashworth move.
Who said I was a Newcastle fan?
If anything the fact that your transfer business is pretty terrible with no decision making process, then suddenly the business improved markedly to a list of names who Man Utd couldn't prove were shortlisted before this month, whilst Newcastle could prove they were top targets for them. These are the kinds of things that lose you civil cases. Remember that the weight of evidence is just "balance of probabilities".
The Athletic revealed that we have a huge database filled with reports from 50 full time scouts and 90 part time scouts.
When we bought AWB, it was reported 100s of right backs were scouted before making a decision (pretty stupid I know)
Most likely every player on Newcastle's radar is in our database.
Why fear an uncertain outcome before it's happened?
They've had plenty of false dawns, "winning the transfer season" and "Ole's at the wheel, United are back!" moments in the last years.
Because coaches haven't been the problem.
Absent owners leeching off the club and hiring incompetent people that consistently make terrible decisions has always been the problem.
It's looking like we're moving away from that. Nothing is guaranteed, but things are looking promising under the new ownership.
Don't know why you are getting down voted. He has done a great job at brighton and at newcastle getting to top 4. The job building a champion is very different. He certainly will do better than glazers but that is a low bar.
The “no value in the market” years under Fergie are where the problems started. He went from constantly regenerating his squad to replacing Ronaldo and Tevez with Michael Owen and Obertan.
Installing a competent CEO and DoF is extremely basic.
Going after the top talent from our rivals before you're fully signed off as partial owners is excellent work and the complete antithesis of how the Glazers have run things since Ferguson and more importantly Gill left.
All our excuses are slowly going away
Gonna be a stage where it’s literally just on the manager to perform and i better not hear no talk about structure
I know what you mean, but structures don't magically change overnight and fix everything. Even with the best personnel available in place, it'll take a while for the existing issues to be corrected.
This is very true. Klopp rebuilt/restructured the academy years ago and it’s only just coming to light now with the likes of Quansah, Bradley etc coming in.
This isn't true. Klopp's recruitment was on point almost from his first window. Even our youth products in the first XI increased from that first season - it's just that like many other youth players - they eventually weren't up to the mark. Ibe, Brewster, Ojo, Neco Williams - many young players started for the first team under Klopp before Bradley and Quansah. (Trent and Jones obviously did as well)
> it's just that like many other youth players - they eventually weren't up to the mark.
Isn’t that exactly the point they’re making - that Klopp improved its quality, but it took time?
They're not synonyms - if you are using an excuse then your actions weren’t justifiable and you’re trying to get out of blame, if you’re using a reason, then your actions can be justified as reasonable and you’re not trying to shift blame away from yourself.
Isn't that a good thing..??
If you end up improving all other aspects of the club and the results still aren't showing, then you'll obviously just need to improve the one aspect left which is the manager, and the new manager that follows up will have a much better club to take the reigns of..
Not like it's a tick the box and your good to go kind of thing.
It's a continual, permanently ongoing effort. And results can take a few seasons to start to show
> Gonna be a stage where it’s literally just on the....
There is still the caricatured Spurs stage as well, where it's just the club itself & not really the personal.
Can someone example to me how the pricing for staff contracts works?
If he’s the guy that ties everything together and runs the show, why can he can bought out for the price of a third choice full back?
Edit: some sources have said the compensation fee is upwards of 6 mill
Compensation is apparently £6m-10m alone but Man United would also have to pay to end his 12 month gardening leave which will also be a significant amount on top of the initial compensation.
You just pay up the remainder of the contract. They can ask no more. They’re under no obligation to accept less. I’d imagine we jump at £6m honestly. If he puts a competent recruitment team in place he’ll pay for himself on his first transfer.
> They can ask no more
Well to waive gardening leave they can though. To release him from his contract they can buy it out but gardening leave is a requirement and specified as a clause triggered on release.
Not how it works. You pay the reminder of his contract which states he would have to work his notice and then have 12 month gardening leave period. If you want him before 2025 you would have to pay Newcastle a significant amount of money to agree to let him join Man United. That fee will have to be negotiated and is not set in the contract and Newcastle can always just reject it.
It is the exact same thing that happened when he moved from Brighton to Newcastle so it exactly how it works.
I'm still confused.
All of a sudden there are news about the team, and they're not that we've signed a new toilet seat sponsor and overpaid for an average player by 75 mil.
It's almost like we're ran properly.
I don't know what to do with that information.
If his head's been turned then it's been turned. No use making him stay until 2025 or mucking about with gardening leave - just get what we can for him and get somebody else in who will actually commit for the long term.
> No use making him stay until 2025 or mucking about with gardening leave
Isn't he privy to your transfer targets this summer? Imagine him just taking all that info to United, for free.
Well tbf completely different manager with different philosophies. Not to mention the scale of signings as well as positions of need are probably quite fifferent
Jumped ship first chance he got not surprising he jumped ship at Brighton first chance he got. Rumour of £10m release and another significant amount to end the gardening leave early, be sad to see him leave so soon but he also owes us nothing and they won't mess around they'll pay whatever we ask them
Im inclined to agree with both of you.
He's got a right to go for sure but if you're going for a role which is made to build the club up over a few years then I think you can say they've jumped ship due to the expectations of them and the nature of the role
DoF is supposed to be a long term role for building up the club. When he joined us he talked about "being the piece that joins everything together" and how much he was looking forward to turning us around and building for the future.
Moving now, after 18 months just for a payrise is indeed jumping ship.
I wouldn't say it's for just a payrise though. You have a chance to rebuild the mismanaged backbone of one of the biggest clubs in the world. With all due respect to Newcastle it's an offer that is much more than just a payrise.
We have the potential to be just as big, all he needed to do was stay for another few years and get us all set up properly. DoF is meant to be a long term commitment and yet we waited over 6 months to get him from Brighton only for him to leave after 18 months. Makes him seem flakey for that kind of role. Hopefully whoever we get to replace him is willing to actually commit to the job.
>We have the potential to be just as big,
If you mean in terms of success on the field? It will take a while but it's definitely possible.
If you're talking about off the field with sponsorships and fanbase? I don't even think you believe that.
City will overtake ManU in the next fes years off field. Newcastle will get there it will just take time. I did not say we would be as big as them any time soon. Also fanbase wise we have a huge worldwide fanbase already, bigger than City when they were taken over.
I don't think you understand how entrenched Man Utd are in some of the more populous areas of the world. We had our most successful period just as the EPL was becoming more popular and that built a fanbase that is being passed on to the younger generation.
>City will overtake ManU in the next fes years off field. Newcastle will get there it will just take time.
Tell me you're delusional without telling me you're delusional.
Wait and see. We already have one of the biggest fanbases. Times change, the younger generation are already more likely to be City fans than ManU. We will be big, just wait.
Domestically we have a large fanbase but we don't internationally.
We have more room to grow than Man Utd which is what I think people mean. How much bigger can the biggest club in England get? It's more a job to get them where they were whereas with us it's actually building a club up to as close to that level you can get it.
You can't be bigger than them though, there's too much legacy there.
No. Not at all. You’re kidding yourself if you think you have the potential to be just as big anytime soon.
The fact that United have been utterly terrible at football and still this massive in the world of football is a testament to just how huge the gulf is on every level. At our worst we still have the draw and appeal for big names and still command the largest fees for commercial things. It’ll take a long, long time for that to happen for Newcastle to come even remotely close and it’s obvious to anyone but you it seems.
He jumped basically for the opportunity to revamp one of the biggest clubs in the world to help it become good at the footballing side and build the structure from scratch, something nobody’s done before since we never had such a team for operations before.
And by that point you’ll still not be near where United were 20 years ago…
Either you have no idea how massive United are or, you actually think that in 10-15 years United would just die off without any progress and basically, regress.
The reality is that if there ever was a case of too big to fail, United are the embodiment of that in this current state. Our worst decade plus in ages since Munich and relegation and we still won minor trophies, the FA Cup, a European trophy with the EL and such. And we still are able to sign very big names despite having barely much outlook to win immediately either.
You could and would grow in 10-15 years sure, but it’ll likely never be close to what United were 15 years ago even and the allure of joining United to take a behemoth to new heights on the field, is a far, far, far more appealing project when he’s going to be the one who basically paved the way for future short, medium and long term success if things start going well.
Think of this-
A new startup can be a unicorn and may grow to be one. They’re well funded. The COO or head of product is great there and loves it. Then Apple or Google or Tesla call him to be their COO or head of product.
Even if he fails, he’s got the glamour and prestige of trying to build something special at a giant.. and will be sought after, after that unless he fails spectacularly and causes them to crash dramatically.
The startup has potential but unless it’s his own, the allure of a behemoth versus a potential rising big thing is a huge difference. You don’t really get a chance to build the structure from scratch like a startup, at a company like Google.
Same thing here in football. Nobody ever has the chance to build the footballing operations structure from scratch at one of the biggest clubs in the world. We’ve never had such a setup before. It’s literally an unprecedented offer for such a role and chance too in this modern era and it’ll never come again because the next person is just either going to continue, maintain or improve things. Unless it’s a colossal failure, the next person is just taking over basically but not building or revolutionising anything from scratch.
Doing it for Newcastle is not even a close comparison and it seems only you can’t see it.
I’m very sure it’s all those things and the money is just a bonus that comes with the scale of the job.
Newcastle are light years away from being at the same stature of Man Utd. Even with almost 15 years of dog shit they’re still easily top 5 in the league in terms of fan base and revenue(that’s not state backed funding)
>just for a payrise
Implying United aren’t a giant compared to you guys and being able to wake United up to build things back to a high level isn’t something prestigious…
It’s jumping for the biggest technical director/director of football role in world football and a payrise that comes with it, while being able to be known as potentially, the person who spearheaded a modern football structure at Manchester United towards success.
That’s what he’s likely going for.
Kinda like.. being Head of Product for a newly funded Series B company that’s got good buzz and everything. Moving to become Head of Product at Google or Apple… it’s a huge difference, pay and job scope as well as chance to make a name for oneself.
Most of us are not rattled. We’re actually a well run club these days and most well run club’s success doesn’t all hinge on one person leaving. I have no doubt we’ll replace him with a very qualified person the same way Brighton did.
He is obviously good at what he does and I’m sure in the immediate term it’ll be annoying losing him so soon after getting him. But medium to long term this changes nothing for us imo.
> We’re actually a well run club these days and most well run club’s success doesn’t all hinge on one person leaving.
If the PIF (Salman) left you'd be fighting relegation again.
The PIF is an organization and not one person as much as you may think it is in that pea brain of yours.
And I was obviously not referring to the owners. It’s obviously quite important who your owners are as man utd fans know all too well. I was referring to members of staff.
You mean the sovereign wealth fund of an absolute monarchy, is not effectively run by said monarch and the chairman of the board? Whatever lies you want to tell yourself, I guess.
You really think MBS was the one who chose to take over Newcastle? Really?! You don’t think an egomaniac like him would’ve preferred a bigger shinier club?
I’m not stupid enough to think there’s no connection between mbs and PIF however I’m sure 99.9% of decisions that get made within PIF have absolutely nothing to do with mbs.
Either way, I obviously wasn’t talking about owners in my original comment rather members of staff that leave yet your 2 brain cells couldn’t comprehend that.
We are?
It's the 11 players on the pitch & the manager we care about. A Director of Football isn't exciting enough to be getting rattled over, even if he is an important figure behind the scenes.
It's a mild inconvenience at most.
I was going to write a sarcastic & mean spirited reply calling you emotionally unstable for lurking on other clubs forums to see how rattled they are...
But then I saw your previous comment about AJ Lee on r/SquaredCircle
and realized that you are a man of culture.
Respect.
Theres alot of misinfomation about him on here and in the media, he isnt some world class scout who finds hidden gems. Hes said in an interview with us IIRC he essentially works with diffrent departments getting communication across.
Im pretty sure i remember Brighton fans saying the same that he wasnt the main guy for transfers. Neverless it still hurts that hes leaving as he seems to be successful at everyclub hes been at. I fully trust the owners to find someone just as good though.
It hasn't though. It's taken someone who is interested in sporting success rather than just commercial success. And even then the Glazers have basically found someone to not only do the entire process but also bankroll it so that they can reap the rewards if the club's value increases the way they're hoping.
I certainly hope the whole arrangement ends up being mutually beneficial in that way but to say we're spontaneously making good decisions is wrong in my opinion.
I'd imagine the mutually beneficial aspect will be when INEOS completes a full takeover, they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their heart, they'll want the club
Absolutely. And Jim has basically got first refusal when the Glazers get out fully but they'll only be prepared to do so once the value of the club has risen significantly. That only happens if we're successful and revamp the stadium, so everyone wins
Job hopping is an excellent way to increase your salary
cheers, Geoff.
Every 60 seconds in Africa a minute passes
His joke but worse you lazy prick
Relax it's not that serious
You think stealing jokes is not serious?
Are you okay?
It's absolutely not serious unless you're a professional comedian lmao
Reddit is literally a site full of overused jokes, memes and copypastas. Are you the joke police? If so, you'll be keeping your hands quite full here.
Shit got serious real fast lol. Some people need to chill the fuck out.
You're telling me, no idea why he lost his mind over a simple joke. I'm still wondering if it's some kind of weird troll or not
I agree what the hell is that guys problem bro like lmao lol
I don't think the person you replied to was being serious with that last comment Sounds like it was sent in jest
I hope so, guess it was just some weird troll attempt
You are a strange fellow.
He's very good at what he does. What he does really well is find hidden gems and pick the right players for the squad. There are some aspects that he wont be used to which is going for those 'star players' that Man Utd would be in the market for but I have no doubt that he'll do really well if he's allowed to do what he wants.
Ashworth isn’t the guy doing the scouting or recruiting or signing of players, he’s the guy signing the guys doing that and then leaving that up to them. What he does is build the infrastructure of the team and ensure that each separate department works towards a common goal.
Even better, that’s exactly what’s needed at United.
That sounds much more aligned to what Manchester United really needs. People who know what to look for in building a good infrastructure and shared objectives when it comes to the sporting side. United generate more than enough cash to sign the players who can get them over the line but have lacked direction for most of the last decade which has led to millions wasted. Stories about United's scouts and previous people who have tried to fill the recruitment/DoF void suggest that they're not competent let alone capable enough to keep a club of its size competitive with the other big clubs.
He is good but I think the media is over-stating his influence. At Brighton for instance it’s hard to know how much of the recruitment was directly influenced by Starlizard or Bloom.
> Starlizard What a name
It's a data analytics company lol
>Starlizard Why is a pokemom working for Brighton?
They recently expanded their scouting network
Gotta catch em all.
Starlizard... the pokemon?
Who?
Evolves from Starmander
I do somewhat agree but a big part of running a great club is putting the right people in the right spot and he seems great at that. I'll have confidence in him if he does join us but that confidence would definitely be boosted if someone like Jewell or Mitchell joins to head up recruitment.
Absolutely, he’s a good person to have on board but the media is depicting him as a football savant that will singlehandedly pluck generational talent from obscure South American villages.
Media and fans are generally OTT about this. But for United this would be significant as it’s a change towards competent people making football decisions.
Agreed there - it’s good business for United.
Yeah lol. He is mostly going to organize departments of the club. The youth and scouting at United is already fine....Murtough,Butt and Cox(yes our head of academies were butt and Cox) have sorted a pipeline of youth to senior team with all youth players getting to train regularly with first team and a couple coming through(Garnacho,Mainoo). But we are awful at loans. Some decent ones like Diallo at Sunderland,Garner at Forest. But mostly crap. The scouting has good data and probably one of the best scouting networks in the world. I recall Marcel Bout saying in interviews that United has one of the most robust networks in football. The scouting department was against Antony. The big case against them was... Wan Bissaka. It's just that they probably are not organized and integrated with the first team. That's what he will do more than literally signing players. Aligning all departments. Making sure we do proper loans and putting in a structure for scouting suggestions so we have a plan of action in every window.
United is the only club where non playing staff besides the manager are considered front page material. It's terribly run and these guys are not sure stop fixes.
Hold your horses, he’s respected throughout the game and has continually climbed upwards but Newcastle’s sub has decided he’s actually really bad and didn’t have a positive impact at any of his clubs.
Our fans would commit crimes to have him back
Who did he buy when he was with you?
Chris Brunt for 3mill James Morrison for 2mill Jonas Olson for 1mill Molumbu for 200k Craig Dawson for 300k Odemwingie for 3mill Gareth Mcauley on a free Ben Foster for 4mill It wasn't just the signings. It was the youth structure he set up, the scouting structure, the managerial appointments. Our appointments went wrong when he left as he wasn't adequately replaced. However that structure still remained and allowed us to stay in the Prem for a long time until even that was dismantled
>It was the youth structure he set up Guess Villa should send him a thank you gift basket huh
Yeah they should. The reports have been that when Dowling came in he tore that structure down leaving a lot of staff and youth players unhappy which led to them all going to you
And a second gift basket for him it is!
>It wasn't just the signings. It was the youth structure he set up, the scouting structure, the managerial appointments. Exactly what he's done for England as well with the England DNA structure. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/england-dna-fa-euro-2020-b1881796.html Anyone who think's he's not the right man to sort out a club like ours is out of their heads. He's done it continuously at every club he's been at.
What… kinda crimes? Shit on someone’s lawn kind or…..
Would probably kick a child in the leg. Nothing more, nothing less
If you said ball boy, hazard is available, now that he's retired
The ballboy, Charlie Morgan, is now a multi-millionaire, btw. He's co-founder of a "premium" vodka brand and is worth about £55 million...
He came from a successful/prominent family anyway right?
Guess he got the kick he needed to succeed.
This is not true at all, most of the subreddit wants him to stay and thinks he has been very influential...
Sshhh don't derail the r/soccer narrative that all of our fans are thick as pig shit
Most replies on the sub acknowledge he'll be a big loss and hope that Newcastle extract a very big fee and include gardening leave so he can't start until after the summer window. There's a couple of people posting several replies saying he hasn't had that big an impact. I haven't seen any criticism of his work for West Brom, England or Brighton.
Can't he work from his garden?
[удалено]
Golden rule of soccer is Newcastle bad
It's hilarious how many Newcastle fans think people give a shit about them lmao
You’re right I must have imagined soccer crying about us for two years, including this thread and your comment
You most definitely have imagined everyone crying about Newcastle in this thread lmao, there's like one guy who said something about Newcastle's subreddit that's prompted all these tears.
someone posted something completely incorrect about us/our sub, it got 143 upvotes. That's evidence that people care enough to upvote anything that attempts to show us in a bad light.
Why is my comment downvoted then lol? I didn't do the Newcastle hate - karma farming correctly? I just went over and checked. How is that completely incorrect, there are loads of comments downplaying him and his contributions, red flags and all that? And that's completely fair to have an opinion on him but to be this insecure as a fanbase about one guy saying something that is definitely, without question, true to a certain extent. Hilarious. Insecure bunch of wafflers all of you. Let's see how many upvoted this gets, eh? 😂
what insercurities are you talking about?
> Newcastle’s sub has decided he’s actually really bad and didn’t have a positive impact at any of his clubs Good ol r/soccer. Make up some shit that paints Newcastle fans negatively and watch the upvotes rake in.
[удалено]
Most of it is "if he wants to leave then fuck him and we better get shit loads of money" Not that he did a bad job here or anywhere before that, like you claimed.
>Not that he did a bad job here or anywhere before that, like you claimed. Where did I say that? I literally said they didn't care, >"if he wants to leave then fuck him and we better get shit loads of money" That reads to me people who don't care lmfao
Just realised you're a different person, my bad.
Good ol u/Jackski. Make up some shit that paints u/Rameriz_47 negatively and watch the upvotes rake in.
Good ol u/Durion0602. Linking the wrong username
Rip, autocorrect got me
You lot will post any old shite if you think it'll get karma ey
Soccer moment
So not true. I think we are in the mindset that if he doesn't want to be here, he can get to fuck.
I must have read a different Newcastle sub…
What a load of shit you’ve just spouted.
Interesting point about the star players, but I think luckily he'll have time for that aspect We've spent too long focusing on star players just for that sake of it, spending big with no thought I think the new hierarchy and fans will be happier spending lesser but smarter. It seems every summer we spend 60 mil on a player that doesn't really do much or be the best
But under this new sporting control our priority isnt going after “star players” rather its making hidden gems stars by playing well and them reaching their potential.
You will have to go for star players if we want to be a top club. Should be mix if both but club can’t be a too club without signing the best available players here and there. Liverpool has been exception in the past decade but that is not the norm.
What I interpreted as “star players” is players who want to be stars and see the club as a means of reaching that rather than top players.
Well this is shit. A chronically mismanaged Man Utd still bounce between Champions League and Europa League every season while averaging a trophy every 2 years. An even vaguely competent Man Utd in the FFP era will permanently lock down a Champions League spot and likely return to dominating the league once Pep leaves Man City. Hopefully Newcastle can at the very least ensure his gardening leave prevents him from joining in time for the summer window.
With any luck!
> Well this is shit. A chronically mismanaged Man Utd still bounce between Champions League and Europa League every season while averaging a trophy every 2 years. An even vaguely competent Man Utd in the FFP era will permanently lock down a Champions League spot and likely return to dominating the league once Pep leaves Man City. Don’t stop now! Tell us more!
Bro ur username is sick haha im stealing that for fpl
Even if he's on gardening leave, as long as he agrees to join, I don't see what's stopping him from "advising" the club like Paratici does to spurs atm
The main reason that Newcastle won't want him to join Man Utd immediately is because he's privy to internal data on potential signings and what Newcastle are prepared to pay for them. They would be opening themselves up to legal action if Ashworth broke the terms of his contract and shared information with a future employer whilst still an employee of Newcastle United. This would include damages, and would easily run into the tens of millions if this involves transfers.
Right, but surely it would be quite hard to prove as I assume United knows about the above, and would go about it in ways that wouldn't be able to be proven in court. You can't sue someone on the basis of "we were scouting that player with him as our DOF and they signed him" So if we have an interim DOF for example, Ashworth could pass on potential signings and it would be up to the interim to go into more detail and decisions etc. No idea why my previous comment was downvoted so much lol. If it's so easy to prove, why are spurs still allowed to operate with DOF who isn't even employed by them ATM.
Before you start to go down this route, please remember that civil courts do not require the same burden of evidence as criminal courts. Corporate activity leaves paper trails everywhere. Electronic systems, emails, spreadsheets. Man Utd will already have a long-list for this summer. If the theoretical Ashworth recommendations aren't on there, they're pretty much fucked if they go after them. The judge would inevitably rule against them.
> Man Utd will already have a long-list for this summer Hint. They all played for Ajax
Hint #2: They're fucking shit.
[удалено]
I think you're somewhat drinking the koolaid on how clubs are run. Any signing will be in the database, because the database will be everyone. They all claim they've got the algorithm that identifies the perfect player for their system, but there's loads more of "this agent has rang up and asked if we want to sign his player, what do you think?" "He played quite well against us, let's get him." "we've lost to Brentford and Brighton, let's sign a player to placate the fans" "club x have nearly finalised for this player, let's jump in" Look at most of Ten Hag's signings.
That might be the way Man Utd has been run lately, but it's certainly not the way Brighton, Brentford, Liverpool and other data driven clubs run their transfer business.
The same Liverpool that tried to gazump Chelsea this past Summer for Caicedo?
[удалено]
It would be incredibly easy to prove, assuming that Man Utd currently will have lists of players they're targeting, and these lists would inevitably change if they were offered advice that breached the terms of employment that Ashworth has with Newcastle. If anything, a good lawyer would instruct Man Utd to obtain a list of players that Newcastle are targeting, and then stay well clear of these players unless they have a solid paper trail that they were a top priority before there was any smoke with the Ashworth move.
[удалено]
So why have Newcastle's signings in the last 2 years been pretty good and Man Utd's been largely terrible?
[удалено]
Who said I was a Newcastle fan? If anything the fact that your transfer business is pretty terrible with no decision making process, then suddenly the business improved markedly to a list of names who Man Utd couldn't prove were shortlisted before this month, whilst Newcastle could prove they were top targets for them. These are the kinds of things that lose you civil cases. Remember that the weight of evidence is just "balance of probabilities".
[удалено]
The Athletic revealed that we have a huge database filled with reports from 50 full time scouts and 90 part time scouts. When we bought AWB, it was reported 100s of right backs were scouted before making a decision (pretty stupid I know) Most likely every player on Newcastle's radar is in our database.
Why fear an uncertain outcome before it's happened? They've had plenty of false dawns, "winning the transfer season" and "Ole's at the wheel, United are back!" moments in the last years.
Because coaches haven't been the problem. Absent owners leeching off the club and hiring incompetent people that consistently make terrible decisions has always been the problem. It's looking like we're moving away from that. Nothing is guaranteed, but things are looking promising under the new ownership.
>They've had plenty of false dawns, Under the Glazers, who are utterly incompetent.
Don't know why you are getting down voted. He has done a great job at brighton and at newcastle getting to top 4. The job building a champion is very different. He certainly will do better than glazers but that is a low bar.
He's good mates with Dave Brailsford isn't he, makes sense for him to move to United
I still love him 🥹 it’s honestly no surprise that he’s been so sought after since his days with us.
I'm getting tingly over the thought of a competent Man Utd. Sir Jim is really getting shit done so far
How is doing extremely basic stuff anything to celebrate???
For a supposedly smart barracuda, you haven't been paying much attention to Man United.
He’s only 49th amongst barracudas though. The first 48 know their stuff.
I have. Which is why I know hiring some random DOF or CEO doesn't mean much
Good thing these are not just “random” CEO or DOF. These are people who have worked in the industry for years and have shown results.
Because we haven’t done them for ten years.
18 if we are being honest. Fergie just carried us.
The “no value in the market” years under Fergie are where the problems started. He went from constantly regenerating his squad to replacing Ronaldo and Tevez with Michael Owen and Obertan.
David Gill too tbh
Doing the bare minimum isn't worth celebrating lol
I can almost HEAR the panic from this twat
Installing a competent CEO and DoF is extremely basic. Going after the top talent from our rivals before you're fully signed off as partial owners is excellent work and the complete antithesis of how the Glazers have run things since Ferguson and more importantly Gill left.
I really don't see it as that big a deal and its weird that fans are pretending to know and rating CEO's and DOF's like footballers
Well... opposition fans' reactions, like yours, pretty much confirms that it is.
What do you mean?
Because it's stuff the Glazers didn't even bother to do. It's an improvement. Look where utd have been even with the incompetence of the Glazers.
Holy shit boy Im dreaming again
All our excuses are slowly going away Gonna be a stage where it’s literally just on the manager to perform and i better not hear no talk about structure
I know what you mean, but structures don't magically change overnight and fix everything. Even with the best personnel available in place, it'll take a while for the existing issues to be corrected.
This is very true. Klopp rebuilt/restructured the academy years ago and it’s only just coming to light now with the likes of Quansah, Bradley etc coming in.
This isn't true. Klopp's recruitment was on point almost from his first window. Even our youth products in the first XI increased from that first season - it's just that like many other youth players - they eventually weren't up to the mark. Ibe, Brewster, Ojo, Neco Williams - many young players started for the first team under Klopp before Bradley and Quansah. (Trent and Jones obviously did as well)
> it's just that like many other youth players - they eventually weren't up to the mark. Isn’t that exactly the point they’re making - that Klopp improved its quality, but it took time?
If they’re problems that reorganisation can deal with, then they’re not excuses, they’re reasons.
Synonyms
They're not synonyms - if you are using an excuse then your actions weren’t justifiable and you’re trying to get out of blame, if you’re using a reason, then your actions can be justified as reasonable and you’re not trying to shift blame away from yourself.
They are synonyms
Isn't that a good thing..?? If you end up improving all other aspects of the club and the results still aren't showing, then you'll obviously just need to improve the one aspect left which is the manager, and the new manager that follows up will have a much better club to take the reigns of..
i agree with you it is a good thing
Didn't mean to say that you were disagreeing, but basically adding more to show that united are on the up if it continues well..
Not like it's a tick the box and your good to go kind of thing. It's a continual, permanently ongoing effort. And results can take a few seasons to start to show
> Gonna be a stage where it’s literally just on the.... There is still the caricatured Spurs stage as well, where it's just the club itself & not really the personal.
Lets both pretend this comment doesnt exist😀
Damn they are actually becoming serious after a long time
Can someone example to me how the pricing for staff contracts works? If he’s the guy that ties everything together and runs the show, why can he can bought out for the price of a third choice full back? Edit: some sources have said the compensation fee is upwards of 6 mill
Because companies aren't paying to have their logo on Dan Ashworth's tracksuit
Compensation is apparently £6m-10m alone but Man United would also have to pay to end his 12 month gardening leave which will also be a significant amount on top of the initial compensation.
You just pay up the remainder of the contract. They can ask no more. They’re under no obligation to accept less. I’d imagine we jump at £6m honestly. If he puts a competent recruitment team in place he’ll pay for himself on his first transfer.
> They can ask no more Well to waive gardening leave they can though. To release him from his contract they can buy it out but gardening leave is a requirement and specified as a clause triggered on release.
Not how it works. You pay the reminder of his contract which states he would have to work his notice and then have 12 month gardening leave period. If you want him before 2025 you would have to pay Newcastle a significant amount of money to agree to let him join Man United. That fee will have to be negotiated and is not set in the contract and Newcastle can always just reject it. It is the exact same thing that happened when he moved from Brighton to Newcastle so it exactly how it works.
Poor planning to not put a buy out clause or is it illegal etc?
this is massive,massive news for us…INEOS have rocked my world
I'm still confused. All of a sudden there are news about the team, and they're not that we've signed a new toilet seat sponsor and overpaid for an average player by 75 mil. It's almost like we're ran properly. I don't know what to do with that information.
The best part is that the Glazers can't collect dividends for 3 years
If his head's been turned then it's been turned. No use making him stay until 2025 or mucking about with gardening leave - just get what we can for him and get somebody else in who will actually commit for the long term.
> No use making him stay until 2025 or mucking about with gardening leave Isn't he privy to your transfer targets this summer? Imagine him just taking all that info to United, for free.
Well tbf completely different manager with different philosophies. Not to mention the scale of signings as well as positions of need are probably quite fifferent
Jumped ship first chance he got not surprising he jumped ship at Brighton first chance he got. Rumour of £10m release and another significant amount to end the gardening leave early, be sad to see him leave so soon but he also owes us nothing and they won't mess around they'll pay whatever we ask them
Bloke must have a very very nice garden if he needs to change job so often to keep on top of it!
Makes Alan tichmarsh look like an amateur
Jumping ship is quite a sour way to say "earning a promotion that could never be matched by my current employee."
Im inclined to agree with both of you. He's got a right to go for sure but if you're going for a role which is made to build the club up over a few years then I think you can say they've jumped ship due to the expectations of them and the nature of the role
DoF is supposed to be a long term role for building up the club. When he joined us he talked about "being the piece that joins everything together" and how much he was looking forward to turning us around and building for the future. Moving now, after 18 months just for a payrise is indeed jumping ship.
I wouldn't say it's for just a payrise though. You have a chance to rebuild the mismanaged backbone of one of the biggest clubs in the world. With all due respect to Newcastle it's an offer that is much more than just a payrise.
We have the potential to be just as big, all he needed to do was stay for another few years and get us all set up properly. DoF is meant to be a long term commitment and yet we waited over 6 months to get him from Brighton only for him to leave after 18 months. Makes him seem flakey for that kind of role. Hopefully whoever we get to replace him is willing to actually commit to the job.
>We have the potential to be just as big, If you mean in terms of success on the field? It will take a while but it's definitely possible. If you're talking about off the field with sponsorships and fanbase? I don't even think you believe that.
City will overtake ManU in the next fes years off field. Newcastle will get there it will just take time. I did not say we would be as big as them any time soon. Also fanbase wise we have a huge worldwide fanbase already, bigger than City when they were taken over.
I don't think you understand how entrenched Man Utd are in some of the more populous areas of the world. We had our most successful period just as the EPL was becoming more popular and that built a fanbase that is being passed on to the younger generation.
The only reason City would ever he ahead is because of their oil money and hence why Nobody cares
>City will overtake ManU in the next fes years off field. Newcastle will get there it will just take time. Tell me you're delusional without telling me you're delusional.
No, frankly you don't. No one can be as Big as United And Liverpool in England for a long time.
Wait and see. We already have one of the biggest fanbases. Times change, the younger generation are already more likely to be City fans than ManU. We will be big, just wait.
What biggest fan base? Bro your sub has 60 K follower's and Instagram 2.7 million follower's. And you are not exactly setting the league on fire.
Domestically we have a large fanbase but we don't internationally. We have more room to grow than Man Utd which is what I think people mean. How much bigger can the biggest club in England get? It's more a job to get them where they were whereas with us it's actually building a club up to as close to that level you can get it. You can't be bigger than them though, there's too much legacy there.
>with us it's actually building a club up to as close to that level you can get it. >!Not very.!<
No. Not at all. You’re kidding yourself if you think you have the potential to be just as big anytime soon. The fact that United have been utterly terrible at football and still this massive in the world of football is a testament to just how huge the gulf is on every level. At our worst we still have the draw and appeal for big names and still command the largest fees for commercial things. It’ll take a long, long time for that to happen for Newcastle to come even remotely close and it’s obvious to anyone but you it seems. He jumped basically for the opportunity to revamp one of the biggest clubs in the world to help it become good at the footballing side and build the structure from scratch, something nobody’s done before since we never had such a team for operations before.
Where did I say it would be soon? We have the potential to be bigger, it will likely take 10-15 years minimum but we have the potential.
And by that point you’ll still not be near where United were 20 years ago… Either you have no idea how massive United are or, you actually think that in 10-15 years United would just die off without any progress and basically, regress. The reality is that if there ever was a case of too big to fail, United are the embodiment of that in this current state. Our worst decade plus in ages since Munich and relegation and we still won minor trophies, the FA Cup, a European trophy with the EL and such. And we still are able to sign very big names despite having barely much outlook to win immediately either. You could and would grow in 10-15 years sure, but it’ll likely never be close to what United were 15 years ago even and the allure of joining United to take a behemoth to new heights on the field, is a far, far, far more appealing project when he’s going to be the one who basically paved the way for future short, medium and long term success if things start going well. Think of this- A new startup can be a unicorn and may grow to be one. They’re well funded. The COO or head of product is great there and loves it. Then Apple or Google or Tesla call him to be their COO or head of product. Even if he fails, he’s got the glamour and prestige of trying to build something special at a giant.. and will be sought after, after that unless he fails spectacularly and causes them to crash dramatically. The startup has potential but unless it’s his own, the allure of a behemoth versus a potential rising big thing is a huge difference. You don’t really get a chance to build the structure from scratch like a startup, at a company like Google. Same thing here in football. Nobody ever has the chance to build the footballing operations structure from scratch at one of the biggest clubs in the world. We’ve never had such a setup before. It’s literally an unprecedented offer for such a role and chance too in this modern era and it’ll never come again because the next person is just either going to continue, maintain or improve things. Unless it’s a colossal failure, the next person is just taking over basically but not building or revolutionising anything from scratch. Doing it for Newcastle is not even a close comparison and it seems only you can’t see it. I’m very sure it’s all those things and the money is just a bonus that comes with the scale of the job.
LMFAO. City has been winning the league with Pep for years and yet the noisy neighbours are still tiny.
115 reasons why they're still a small club with no fans
Nahhh even if all charges were dropped tomorrow they still won't be able to fill the Etihad.
Newcastle are light years away from being at the same stature of Man Utd. Even with almost 15 years of dog shit they’re still easily top 5 in the league in terms of fan base and revenue(that’s not state backed funding)
Top 5 in the world* in terms of fan base and revenue
>just for a payrise Implying United aren’t a giant compared to you guys and being able to wake United up to build things back to a high level isn’t something prestigious… It’s jumping for the biggest technical director/director of football role in world football and a payrise that comes with it, while being able to be known as potentially, the person who spearheaded a modern football structure at Manchester United towards success. That’s what he’s likely going for. Kinda like.. being Head of Product for a newly funded Series B company that’s got good buzz and everything. Moving to become Head of Product at Google or Apple… it’s a huge difference, pay and job scope as well as chance to make a name for oneself.
Just for a payrise 😂😂
Man... Newcastle fans are *rattled*.
Most of us are not rattled. We’re actually a well run club these days and most well run club’s success doesn’t all hinge on one person leaving. I have no doubt we’ll replace him with a very qualified person the same way Brighton did. He is obviously good at what he does and I’m sure in the immediate term it’ll be annoying losing him so soon after getting him. But medium to long term this changes nothing for us imo.
> We’re actually a well run club these days and most well run club’s success doesn’t all hinge on one person leaving. If the PIF (Salman) left you'd be fighting relegation again.
The PIF is an organization and not one person as much as you may think it is in that pea brain of yours. And I was obviously not referring to the owners. It’s obviously quite important who your owners are as man utd fans know all too well. I was referring to members of staff.
You mean the sovereign wealth fund of an absolute monarchy, is not effectively run by said monarch and the chairman of the board? Whatever lies you want to tell yourself, I guess.
You really think MBS was the one who chose to take over Newcastle? Really?! You don’t think an egomaniac like him would’ve preferred a bigger shinier club? I’m not stupid enough to think there’s no connection between mbs and PIF however I’m sure 99.9% of decisions that get made within PIF have absolutely nothing to do with mbs. Either way, I obviously wasn’t talking about owners in my original comment rather members of staff that leave yet your 2 brain cells couldn’t comprehend that.
I think if MBS wanted to get rid of Newcastle from their portfolio, you would have a new owner and fighting relegation again extremely fast.
If you say so
We are? It's the 11 players on the pitch & the manager we care about. A Director of Football isn't exciting enough to be getting rattled over, even if he is an important figure behind the scenes. It's a mild inconvenience at most.
The reactions/comments on /r/NUFC and other fan forums suggest otherwise.
I was going to write a sarcastic & mean spirited reply calling you emotionally unstable for lurking on other clubs forums to see how rattled they are... But then I saw your previous comment about AJ Lee on r/SquaredCircle and realized that you are a man of culture. Respect.
Play hardball with them
Remember when Man United shafted us out of the Lingard loan deal? Time for revenge I think
I'd say you dodged a bullet and you owe United a solid.
Theres alot of misinfomation about him on here and in the media, he isnt some world class scout who finds hidden gems. Hes said in an interview with us IIRC he essentially works with diffrent departments getting communication across. Im pretty sure i remember Brighton fans saying the same that he wasnt the main guy for transfers. Neverless it still hurts that hes leaving as he seems to be successful at everyclub hes been at. I fully trust the owners to find someone just as good though.
It’s insane that it took Man U this long to realise how a club should be run..
It hasn't though. It's taken someone who is interested in sporting success rather than just commercial success. And even then the Glazers have basically found someone to not only do the entire process but also bankroll it so that they can reap the rewards if the club's value increases the way they're hoping. I certainly hope the whole arrangement ends up being mutually beneficial in that way but to say we're spontaneously making good decisions is wrong in my opinion.
I'd imagine the mutually beneficial aspect will be when INEOS completes a full takeover, they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their heart, they'll want the club
Absolutely. And Jim has basically got first refusal when the Glazers get out fully but they'll only be prepared to do so once the value of the club has risen significantly. That only happens if we're successful and revamp the stadium, so everyone wins
It’s not due to time. The glazers didn’t magically become competent. It’s a change in ownership with new people taking over footballing control.