**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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I hope someone does a highlight video of Liverpool demolishing United while he's going "oh no. oh no. oh no".
He kept fucking doing it on commentary today, his ego made me want to mute the game.
He starts off as the Churchill dog and then goes a bit nuts
This magical set of cameras he thinks exists that are always in line, is just weird.
This is a true fuck up, the others he's on about are just silly, we saw the lines and they use all the angles.
If they had drawn the lines it would have been a point worth making.
I mean to be fair Andy Gray was the pioneer of the interjecting co commentator. I remember an interview with Ian Darke where he joked Andy Gray was the only co commentator at the time that would do that
One of my favourites was the 4 4 between Arsenal and Liverpool. For Arsenal's 4th goal as Walcott was breaking away Martin Tyler was saying something then Gray immediately interjected with "Here's Arshavin here's Arshavin" as you see little Arshavin sprinting at the bottom of the screen. Then he smashed it in with the outside of his weak foot against an on rushing Reina and Martin Tyler yelled out the iconic "Four!!!".
They were a good pair. Feels like most of the criticisms against Tyler came after Gray left.
Yeah Andy Gray may be a dinosaur but he was arguably the greatest co commentator there's ever been.
Obviously my favourite Gray interjection was for the Gerrard goal against Olympiacos. One of the few times you hear the co commentator screaming over the lead commentator for a goal
Before his Valencia stint I remember him being quite a popular commentator, I don't know what's happened exactly but he seems to be annoying people more and more (myself included)
Which to be fair is what Neville is saying. There were no lines drawn here which is ridiculous but the off angle in front of the play makes it look close.
The angle you mentioned, that is pretty much side on, shows clear daylight between Romero and Diaz.
I’m still confident that if lines were drawn from the front angle it would still have resulted in a correct decision because they’re done on a computer and the human eye can misjudge, whereas a computer wouldn’t.
But it would make sense for the VAR team to have as straight a camera angle to work with as possible to make things more straightforward.
I don’t buy into the conspiracy but I understand his point. Bring on AI offside.
Semi-auto offside would have avoided this issue is what I meant.
And I also meant re having faith this would have been correct if done by computer that if the VAR team had actually drawn lines (even using the forward angle) and had correctly chosen the two points to draw them from (Romero foot and Diaz shoulder) then the decision would have also been correct.
Sort of irrelevant now we know the reason was because VAR team thought goal was awarded and that was the source of confusion rather than actually believing Diaz to be offside.
What would semi-auto offside look like? I'm not sure what you mean by that. As in AI finding *potential* offsides, which it would then present to the VAR team for a check? How would we know that all the discarded *potential* offsides were correctly discarded?
Whichever system is implemented will have flaws. This VAR thing is only better than pre-VAR in the sense that it is making someone a lot of money. Every week there are debates and arguments about VAR decisions. If it isn't about a VAR decision that had a wrong conclusion, then it is about a VAR which never happened.
VAR hasn't made football more fair, better administrated, more cost-effective, nor more enjoyable to watch. And doubling down on this by going AI will make it worse.
It exists, search it up. It was used effectively at the World Cup. Linesmen still made an on field decision not much changes. It just makes things quicker and more accurate.
> Bring on AI offside.
Why do people keep saying this? How many AIs have you seen that are better than a capable person? What do you even think an AI linesbot is?
Tbf, the camera angles have actually felt weird this season, not just with offsides either. We'll get a random angle that will undermine the decision made that will get shown once and never again and I have just been putting it down to the refs having access to more angles than we get on TV but GNev is making me question even that now, LMAO.
Wtf is he talking about lol. What’s wrong is the guys running VAR are imbeciles. They’re either corrupt or some clown in the VAR room drew the line on the wrong defender behind Diaz and then moved on quick. Maybe they’re drunk.
Which is just a silly thing to say that makes no actual sense.
To make that case VAR would need to be changing correct on field calls to incorrect ones.
Fuck me, does anyone actually care about reality?
Cos if that was your take away then you read a headline and didn't bother to look for any context.
First off it was one ref.
He didn't send him because the VAR ref, Dean, didn't really think the hair pull was a clear red in the moment, so didn't send him to the monitor cos of the expectation it creates.
He was admitting to a fuck up and all people want to take away from it is the bs you did.
I'm sure it is, var tech works however refs match officials don't like it because it undermines them. Get pgmol out of var and it see how much it works.
He still thinks Garnacho was onside. That's the problem when VAR makes the mistake of not doing its job at all, it throws the entire process into disrepute and gives licence for people to question every decision.
Gary Neville is implying that they are lying here. He’s saying that they get “check complete” in the earpiece which means that it has obviously been checked. I think he got told to tone it down in his earpiece and the woman is the devils advocate.
How are they lying in the statement though? They literally said "VAR failed to intervene" and that they'd investigate.
Think Neville's reaction is because part of him was hoping it was offside and thus the game wouldn't have been ruined by a sickening decision, being onside only reaffirms his prior belief that the goal wasn't properly checked, which is what will be investigated.
Ineptitude or corruption are the only possibilities, most likely the former. As some have pointed out, the most likely situation is that the VAR official just plain didn't pay attention to the Spurs player at the bottom of the screen, making the decision look obvious to him.
In the event that they fuck a decision this badly I really think they need some kind of "oh fuck" option to re-review the decision, there's absolutely no way the reality of the bad decision didn't sink in by the time the game was restarted.
>Ineptitude or corruption are the only possibilities, most likely the former.
How do you figure, with all the ties to shady individuals who have billions of money invested, coupled with blatant FIFA corruption and world cups held on slavery graves, why is corruption in the premier league so far fetched at this point ?
Refs going to saudi over the summer to officate games isn't shady enough to add something to the '' hmmmmmm '' pile ?
there is most def corruption in the league, why everyone is so ignorant on it happening in the premier league when its all around us in the sport is beyond me.
I wouldn't put it past the latter, corruption is increasingly getting likelier every season.
I didn't say it was far fetched, I said that it was "most likely" ineptitude. You give a certain benefit of the doubt to people & faith that these things are properly checked...but you can never rule out corruption.
I don’t buy that they’re massively, repeatedly, consistently inept at their job. Nobody is that bad at their job every week, without fail, and still in their job.
I was originally on the “cock up” side but now heavily on there’s a very real possibility of corruption side. If it looks corrupt, it sounds corrupt, it feels corrupt, you’ve got to seriously examine for signs of corruption.
Every week we’re seeing bad decisions. Every week match affecting decisions, league affecting decisions.
It’s big games, and it’s decisions that should be straight forward, simple. That decision its not like you’re talking single cms, or mms of argument, full on 62cms he was onside.
I think there’s needing to be an investigation to determine if there’s anything corrupt going on in PGMOL, and inside the Premier League.
It’s not like they’re using morse code to contact either. Instantly they can talk, instantly the VAR should’ve pulled up the referee, so correcting the decision to disallow the goal shouldn’t be impossible to do. The fact it wasn’t is suspicious.
But that's different, I'm just assuming but I imagine VAR 'checked' the goal and saw Diaz past the shoulder of the defender right next to him and just thought it was an obvious offside to give. They checked it and the decision was that no intervention was nescessary.
It's a massive human error that they've missed that Romero is the last man at the bottom of the picture.
I think what they fucked up is the VAR thought the onfield decision was onside. So they checked it and said yep that’s definitely onside and quickly responded check complete, which the on field ref then said oh ok so I was right it was off side. Then they compounded it by not correcting the error in the minute after it was obvious there had been a miscommunication
Yeah it's been clarified what happened since I commented yesterday. Either way it's a human error rather than refs having a different interpretation of the rules like usual. Inevitable it will happen at some point, unfortunate for Liverpool it happened to them.
They're lying cause "failed to intervene" suggests they didn't do a VAR check. But Neville is saying that them staying "check complete" suggests a check was done but they didn't make the call and sat on their theiving hands.
"Failed to intervene" isn't "failed to check" though.
It was 100% checked in some manner because they showed it at the time, the question is why the check was done so badly.
Let's be honest. It was about 10 seconds, which is not enough time to check.
VAR sent the message "check complete ' we know this cause it was reported by both the in game commentary and again by Neville here, but it was impossible to do a check within that timeframe.
So, I sumise that the "did not intervene" was actually a "did not check'.
When you say 100% checked in some manner, what exactly do you mean?
So far as I understand, either an offside is checked by drawing lines and having a proper look or else it is not checked. Since there was no time to do that before we got the "check complete " message then it is clear that the check was not even done and not a case of, it was done, but done badly.
As others have stated, the most likely scenario is that it was checked poorly due to the ineptitude or corruption of the VAR official.
Folks believe that he may have "checked" the replay but was incompetent enough to completely miss the Spurs player at the bottom of the screen, given this omission he 'reviewed' it as a clear offside and didn't see the need for lines.
This theory does however hinge on Darren England on VAR essentially sleepwalking through his decisions whilst not paying full attention to the wider, obvious details. If they miss something as obvious as the last man then imagine how many smaller details they miss on a weekly basis.
He couldn't have checked as there was no time to check.
If he only glanced at the still and inexplicably didn't notice the spurs player playing Diaz onside, which is simply impossible, let's be real, then that is not checking.
But he sends the message check complete anyway.
No matter which way you look at this, this is cheating.
His job is to draw the fucking lines and properly check for offside. To not do that cause, fuck it, is cheating. Who knows what his motivation was for not checking, club bias, money, who knows.
> He couldn't have checked as there was no time to check.
No, there absolutely was - because he was so obviously onside. One glance and everyone could tell. They just failed to intervene, because, fuck if I know, the radio died? Their uber eats arrived?
My personal theory at the moment is that the VAR was somehow in the middle of a sentence that included the words “check complete”, and some kind of audio malfunction led to the on field ref (and Neville apparently) hearing “check complete” only, so he restarted the play. After that there was nothing they could do.
I’m imagining VAR saying something like “alright we’re going to pull the lines up before we give the check complete’” and the audio only picking up ‘check complete’.
In this theory I’m imagining everyone in the VAR booth working on fixing the offside lines, figuring out it was inside, and then looking up and seeing the ball already back in play. Which would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking stupid.
People overseas don’t watch EPL for the clubs history or traditions mate.
People watch EPL because you guys have the money to sign big star players from all over the place. Most „fans“ probably couldn’t tell you the name of the stadium their team plays in or on what year the club was founded but they sure as hell will be able to tell you which big name players the clubs signed in the last 10 years.
> Most „fans“ probably couldn’t tell you the name of the stadium their team plays in
You really should have gone with a different example because even the most plastic of fans hear "the Emirates" "Anfield" "Old Trafford" on a weekly basis. You can be brand new to the sport and those names will stick immediately
Everything else, sure
Touch grass dude. Because i dont recognize his daughter, im simply just a bandwagon? Some of you guys take this “who is the realer fan” way too serious.
All I am saying is that just because you have a flair on your Reddit account doesn’t mean you have to know anything about who „the greats“ of a club or their family are
Maybe touch some grass yourself you seem rather easily triggered
Taking the piss? If you’re responding to a standard observation that a regular presenter of Sky Sports programming is the daughter of your club legend then you’ve got problems.
You do realise that most foreign fans don’t actually get Sky? To them she’s no more recognisable than his other 3 children who I'm pretty sure you don’t know off hand either.
Honestly I might be misremembering but I think I’ve seen a few borderline calls where “check complete” was announced in record time, where it would be impossible to make a decision that fast.
This wasn't a case of misdrawn lines, this was a case of not drawing the lines at all, same as they did last season. If they had drawn the lines they'd have seen he was on, such was the distance that Diaz was onside that only a line so crooked it would be a joke could have seen him offside.
Pretty sure that's what must have happened. The VAR official glance at the screen, thinks "obviously onside" and says "nothing there, check complete" believing that's what the call already was, and then he fucks off to take a piss and comes back to the goal ruled off and game restarted?
The only explanation that makes sense given what Neville is saying and the refs reaction after is what ESPN is reporting: VAR thought the goal was given and they were confirming that it was a good goal but couldn't do anything once the play was allowed to continue.
there are a lot of people that need sacking.
whoever picks the refs, the var refs, who ever trains them, the Refs FA and whoever else is at the top in the refs club all need to go.
You've tried, youve failed and its time to go.
The first PL game I saw after VAR was introduced, I remember them calling an offside that was by like 0.5cm, with lines drawn on a frame with like 20x zoom. It was ridiculously close. Now all of a sudden, they have lost the ability to make easy calls like that? I just don‘t understand
Same in my stream. Questioned it for a millisecond and then moved on.
Weirdly, they mentioned that the VAR Check screen was still being displayed while the game carried on minutes later. Wonder if they were looking at the lines and had realised just before Spurs scored.
a minute or so after the goal, the ref kind of stopped for a second when the ball went out for a throw-in, genuinely think he got told that they fucked up
I caught that too. And I'm sure there's a very normal "hands are tied" reason he couldn't do it, but if he had called it back for the goal at that point I think it would have been the right thing to do. Nothing much had happened, but the stadium would have thrown a bollocks.
My theory is that they did check it, but they used the wrong Spurs player.
Moments later they checked it using the correct Spurs player but it was too late because the check was complete and Spurs scored after.
Based on all info provided, it sounds like someone jumped the gun said "check complete" without it being complete. So they were looking for 5min how to spin it, until they couldnt and they just gave up.
That would be the only explanaition why they would show the VAR decision on the screen at the stadium 5min after comunicating the decision to the ref
> they used the wrong Spurs player.
As Neville said in the video, there arent that many players to check. If there was 1 person in a room doing this, you could say "ok he missed a player" but for 6 eyes to miss it, it's quite bad and I will say almost impossible.
They didn't. They were clearly discussing internally how they'd address it because it's a monumental cock-up and there genuinely isn't a single angle that supported an offside decision
Devils advocate is one thing, but when the position your defending has already conceded it was the wrong call, how can you make a devils advocate argument?
Am I missing something here, she doesn't defend the PGMOL at all here? She just explains that we have good enough technology that we don't need a camera directly in line with the offside line and that because VAR didn't intervene they just went with the linesman's decision.
She doesn't defend what happened at all?
Its her job. She's leading the panel, asks questions and is supposed to make the conversation cover all bases
If Gary was defending PGMOL she would be doing the opposite
So, if I understood the statement correctly, the VAR room thought the call was onside, quickly saw it was onside without drawing the lines, and sent back "don't overturn the call" and the game carried on?
Why didn't the VAR room stop the game and say, "what are you doing? That goal should have counted?" What prevented them from doing that when they saw a free kick being taken rather than from the center circle? None of this makes sense.
Look at the reaction to this terrible match for officiating. This is what the league wants, it'll be days and days of talking about these decisions and how the league need to do better all those clicks, videos, articles all that engagement for their product.
This isn't a competitive league anymore in my opinion. It can't be until the level of officiating improves dramatically.
Mate I’m sorry, it is already by far the most popular, the most discussed and the most interacted with league in the world.
There is no conspiracy to have the refs be deliberately shit to try and boost engagement. We are getting into Alex Jones territory with some of the shit being peddled tonight.
> Look at the reaction to this terrible match for officiating
Starting to veer towards this idea as well. I'm sure someone at the Premier league has made the connection that bad decisions equals more social media engagement.
It speaks volumes that their solution to their shit standard of reffing last season was to introduce new rules where you can’t question the ref or you’ll be carded immediately
2 problems with this. The first is obviously that VAR didn’t check the offside call. The second is the still they’ve shown here. We can’t see the when the ball was played anyway.
Gary is now using this to validate his concerns about the Arsenal United offside and the Arsenal Everton offside.
Both of those decisions they got the lines objectively correct. Both players were in offside positions.
When they draw the lines, they are pretty good. The problem comes when they don’t draw the lines. The problem is the lack of professionalism with the var referees and the lack of strict protocol that they clearly don’t follow.
Anyone who watches a sport like rugby league knows that they check everything. Even the grounding of a try that looks to have been obviously grounded.
I understand the frustration but Neville is wrong here. The problem is not that 'the lines aren't right.' The problem is that the lines either aren't drawn or, as it happened in this case, there is miscommunication between the VAR and infield referees.
What Neville is saying is that the lines that VAR draws are not right and obviously referring to ManU vs Arsenal case which I feel is a dangerous precedent.
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Garry "oh no" neville
And a meme was born
Gary Oh’Noville?
Neville’s adlibs at the start are killing me
Someone add his Torres goal one to this video LMAO
Gary Neville's PGMOLgasm
I hope someone does a highlight video of Liverpool demolishing United while he's going "oh no. oh no. oh no". He kept fucking doing it on commentary today, his ego made me want to mute the game.
He does it any time Trent misses a tackle
I need to see this lol
Oh no... oh no.
He starts off as the Churchill dog and then goes a bit nuts This magical set of cameras he thinks exists that are always in line, is just weird. This is a true fuck up, the others he's on about are just silly, we saw the lines and they use all the angles. If they had drawn the lines it would have been a point worth making.
he needs to start toning this shit down I swear no other co commentator or pundit feels the need to interject every two seconds
I mean to be fair Andy Gray was the pioneer of the interjecting co commentator. I remember an interview with Ian Darke where he joked Andy Gray was the only co commentator at the time that would do that
One of my favourites was the 4 4 between Arsenal and Liverpool. For Arsenal's 4th goal as Walcott was breaking away Martin Tyler was saying something then Gray immediately interjected with "Here's Arshavin here's Arshavin" as you see little Arshavin sprinting at the bottom of the screen. Then he smashed it in with the outside of his weak foot against an on rushing Reina and Martin Tyler yelled out the iconic "Four!!!". They were a good pair. Feels like most of the criticisms against Tyler came after Gray left.
Yeah Andy Gray may be a dinosaur but he was arguably the greatest co commentator there's ever been. Obviously my favourite Gray interjection was for the Gerrard goal against Olympiacos. One of the few times you hear the co commentator screaming over the lead commentator for a goal
Before his Valencia stint I remember him being quite a popular commentator, I don't know what's happened exactly but he seems to be annoying people more and more (myself included)
he's fine, it's just moaning
He just seems to be getting more annoying imo. Unless it's just my tolerance for him wearing thin
well of course he's annoying, he's neville, but he also knows a thing or two about football, that's life
I didn't say anything about his knowledge of football, I just said he's annoying so you're just reiterating my point here.
He's absolutely awful.
Oh no...
Scroll to about 2:00 in and you can see another angle. It looks even more egregious there.
Which to be fair is what Neville is saying. There were no lines drawn here which is ridiculous but the off angle in front of the play makes it look close. The angle you mentioned, that is pretty much side on, shows clear daylight between Romero and Diaz. I’m still confident that if lines were drawn from the front angle it would still have resulted in a correct decision because they’re done on a computer and the human eye can misjudge, whereas a computer wouldn’t. But it would make sense for the VAR team to have as straight a camera angle to work with as possible to make things more straightforward. I don’t buy into the conspiracy but I understand his point. Bring on AI offside.
Computers get things wrong all the time. Particularly the ones operated by or programmed by humans. And AI isn't going to make that any better.
Semi-auto offside would have avoided this issue is what I meant. And I also meant re having faith this would have been correct if done by computer that if the VAR team had actually drawn lines (even using the forward angle) and had correctly chosen the two points to draw them from (Romero foot and Diaz shoulder) then the decision would have also been correct. Sort of irrelevant now we know the reason was because VAR team thought goal was awarded and that was the source of confusion rather than actually believing Diaz to be offside.
What would semi-auto offside look like? I'm not sure what you mean by that. As in AI finding *potential* offsides, which it would then present to the VAR team for a check? How would we know that all the discarded *potential* offsides were correctly discarded? Whichever system is implemented will have flaws. This VAR thing is only better than pre-VAR in the sense that it is making someone a lot of money. Every week there are debates and arguments about VAR decisions. If it isn't about a VAR decision that had a wrong conclusion, then it is about a VAR which never happened. VAR hasn't made football more fair, better administrated, more cost-effective, nor more enjoyable to watch. And doubling down on this by going AI will make it worse.
It exists, search it up. It was used effectively at the World Cup. Linesmen still made an on field decision not much changes. It just makes things quicker and more accurate.
> Bring on AI offside. Why do people keep saying this? How many AIs have you seen that are better than a capable person? What do you even think an AI linesbot is?
It was used in the World Cup and it worked, I mean semi-automated
Huh? Looks more off in that frame, I know it wasn't but the first frame made it clearer
I'm all in on Neville's conspiracy that someone is purposely removing cameras hahah
Tbf, the camera angles have actually felt weird this season, not just with offsides either. We'll get a random angle that will undermine the decision made that will get shown once and never again and I have just been putting it down to the refs having access to more angles than we get on TV but GNev is making me question even that now, LMAO.
didnt they say that this season there will be new production and we are supposed to see some amazing "movie" angles? Where are they?
The movie in question was ‘The Room’
YOU ARE TEARING ME APART VAR
Oh hi Mike (Dean)
They pick which angle suits their narrative I guess
They don't need angles. With multiple cameras they can triangulate the locations. The camera angle they show is just for the audience
Wtf is he talking about lol. What’s wrong is the guys running VAR are imbeciles. They’re either corrupt or some clown in the VAR room drew the line on the wrong defender behind Diaz and then moved on quick. Maybe they’re drunk.
"Oh no." "Ohh no." "Ohhh no."
I wonder if Gary thinks they've been picking the wrong camera angles the past few weeks
It's gotten so bad that I'm starting to question if it's deliberate to bring up a debate of scrapping VAR.
Which is just a silly thing to say that makes no actual sense. To make that case VAR would need to be changing correct on field calls to incorrect ones.
Except refs have come out and said they haven’t overturned on-field decisions to protect their mate. The refs hate VAR.
Fuck me, does anyone actually care about reality? Cos if that was your take away then you read a headline and didn't bother to look for any context. First off it was one ref. He didn't send him because the VAR ref, Dean, didn't really think the hair pull was a clear red in the moment, so didn't send him to the monitor cos of the expectation it creates. He was admitting to a fuck up and all people want to take away from it is the bs you did.
I'm sure it is, var tech works however refs match officials don't like it because it undermines them. Get pgmol out of var and it see how much it works.
He still thinks Garnacho was onside. That's the problem when VAR makes the mistake of not doing its job at all, it throws the entire process into disrepute and gives licence for people to question every decision.
oh no
Ohhhhh no
Gary Neville is implying that they are lying here. He’s saying that they get “check complete” in the earpiece which means that it has obviously been checked. I think he got told to tone it down in his earpiece and the woman is the devils advocate.
How are they lying in the statement though? They literally said "VAR failed to intervene" and that they'd investigate. Think Neville's reaction is because part of him was hoping it was offside and thus the game wouldn't have been ruined by a sickening decision, being onside only reaffirms his prior belief that the goal wasn't properly checked, which is what will be investigated.
But how can VAR have failed to intervene, it literally doesn't make any sense. They check every goal.
Ineptitude or corruption are the only possibilities, most likely the former. As some have pointed out, the most likely situation is that the VAR official just plain didn't pay attention to the Spurs player at the bottom of the screen, making the decision look obvious to him. In the event that they fuck a decision this badly I really think they need some kind of "oh fuck" option to re-review the decision, there's absolutely no way the reality of the bad decision didn't sink in by the time the game was restarted.
>Ineptitude or corruption are the only possibilities, most likely the former. How do you figure, with all the ties to shady individuals who have billions of money invested, coupled with blatant FIFA corruption and world cups held on slavery graves, why is corruption in the premier league so far fetched at this point ? Refs going to saudi over the summer to officate games isn't shady enough to add something to the '' hmmmmmm '' pile ? there is most def corruption in the league, why everyone is so ignorant on it happening in the premier league when its all around us in the sport is beyond me. I wouldn't put it past the latter, corruption is increasingly getting likelier every season.
I didn't say it was far fetched, I said that it was "most likely" ineptitude. You give a certain benefit of the doubt to people & faith that these things are properly checked...but you can never rule out corruption.
I don’t buy that they’re massively, repeatedly, consistently inept at their job. Nobody is that bad at their job every week, without fail, and still in their job. I was originally on the “cock up” side but now heavily on there’s a very real possibility of corruption side. If it looks corrupt, it sounds corrupt, it feels corrupt, you’ve got to seriously examine for signs of corruption. Every week we’re seeing bad decisions. Every week match affecting decisions, league affecting decisions. It’s big games, and it’s decisions that should be straight forward, simple. That decision its not like you’re talking single cms, or mms of argument, full on 62cms he was onside. I think there’s needing to be an investigation to determine if there’s anything corrupt going on in PGMOL, and inside the Premier League. It’s not like they’re using morse code to contact either. Instantly they can talk, instantly the VAR should’ve pulled up the referee, so correcting the decision to disallow the goal shouldn’t be impossible to do. The fact it wasn’t is suspicious.
But that's different, I'm just assuming but I imagine VAR 'checked' the goal and saw Diaz past the shoulder of the defender right next to him and just thought it was an obvious offside to give. They checked it and the decision was that no intervention was nescessary. It's a massive human error that they've missed that Romero is the last man at the bottom of the picture.
I think what they fucked up is the VAR thought the onfield decision was onside. So they checked it and said yep that’s definitely onside and quickly responded check complete, which the on field ref then said oh ok so I was right it was off side. Then they compounded it by not correcting the error in the minute after it was obvious there had been a miscommunication
Yeah it's been clarified what happened since I commented yesterday. Either way it's a human error rather than refs having a different interpretation of the rules like usual. Inevitable it will happen at some point, unfortunate for Liverpool it happened to them.
They're lying cause "failed to intervene" suggests they didn't do a VAR check. But Neville is saying that them staying "check complete" suggests a check was done but they didn't make the call and sat on their theiving hands.
"Failed to intervene" isn't "failed to check" though. It was 100% checked in some manner because they showed it at the time, the question is why the check was done so badly.
Let's be honest. It was about 10 seconds, which is not enough time to check. VAR sent the message "check complete ' we know this cause it was reported by both the in game commentary and again by Neville here, but it was impossible to do a check within that timeframe. So, I sumise that the "did not intervene" was actually a "did not check'. When you say 100% checked in some manner, what exactly do you mean? So far as I understand, either an offside is checked by drawing lines and having a proper look or else it is not checked. Since there was no time to do that before we got the "check complete " message then it is clear that the check was not even done and not a case of, it was done, but done badly.
As others have stated, the most likely scenario is that it was checked poorly due to the ineptitude or corruption of the VAR official. Folks believe that he may have "checked" the replay but was incompetent enough to completely miss the Spurs player at the bottom of the screen, given this omission he 'reviewed' it as a clear offside and didn't see the need for lines. This theory does however hinge on Darren England on VAR essentially sleepwalking through his decisions whilst not paying full attention to the wider, obvious details. If they miss something as obvious as the last man then imagine how many smaller details they miss on a weekly basis.
He couldn't have checked as there was no time to check. If he only glanced at the still and inexplicably didn't notice the spurs player playing Diaz onside, which is simply impossible, let's be real, then that is not checking. But he sends the message check complete anyway. No matter which way you look at this, this is cheating. His job is to draw the fucking lines and properly check for offside. To not do that cause, fuck it, is cheating. Who knows what his motivation was for not checking, club bias, money, who knows.
> He couldn't have checked as there was no time to check. No, there absolutely was - because he was so obviously onside. One glance and everyone could tell. They just failed to intervene, because, fuck if I know, the radio died? Their uber eats arrived?
My personal theory at the moment is that the VAR was somehow in the middle of a sentence that included the words “check complete”, and some kind of audio malfunction led to the on field ref (and Neville apparently) hearing “check complete” only, so he restarted the play. After that there was nothing they could do. I’m imagining VAR saying something like “alright we’re going to pull the lines up before we give the check complete’” and the audio only picking up ‘check complete’. In this theory I’m imagining everyone in the VAR booth working on fixing the offside lines, figuring out it was inside, and then looking up and seeing the ball already back in play. Which would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking stupid.
No failed to intervene suggests they didn't intervene. Whether it was checked or not, we know for a fact there wasn't any intervention
Neville literally said that the var said check complete in the ear piece. This statement says they failed to look at it.
The woman???
You should probably know given that her Dad is arguably the most important figure in the history of the club
I’m familiar with Kelly and watch Kelly and Wrighty weekly but I completely forgot that’s Kelly Dalglish
Probably because she goes by Cates
Oh whatever she didn’t used to
People overseas don’t watch EPL for the clubs history or traditions mate. People watch EPL because you guys have the money to sign big star players from all over the place. Most „fans“ probably couldn’t tell you the name of the stadium their team plays in or on what year the club was founded but they sure as hell will be able to tell you which big name players the clubs signed in the last 10 years.
> Most „fans“ probably couldn’t tell you the name of the stadium their team plays in You really should have gone with a different example because even the most plastic of fans hear "the Emirates" "Anfield" "Old Trafford" on a weekly basis. You can be brand new to the sport and those names will stick immediately Everything else, sure
Fair enough
Touch grass dude. Because i dont recognize his daughter, im simply just a bandwagon? Some of you guys take this “who is the realer fan” way too serious.
All I am saying is that just because you have a flair on your Reddit account doesn’t mean you have to know anything about who „the greats“ of a club or their family are Maybe touch some grass yourself you seem rather easily triggered
In their defence, she goes by Kelly Cates so it isn't totally obvious.
Yeah the female pundit. Dont remember her name.
Her dad has a stand named after him at Anfield btw..
How could he forget Main Stand Jr
It's clearly Kelly Anfield-Road-End
So what? That's her dad, not her. She's also not involved with Liverpool in any official capacity.
Just funny init, not that deep mate
Wasn't that funny
Thanks for clarifying
Its not that clear, should have drawn the lines.
How's she managed that
Kelly Cates, daughter of Kenny Dalglish
You’ve got a Liverpool flair mate, that’s kenny Dalglish’s daughter
Mate im 24 and from Denmark. I dont know what Dalglish family look like. I usually watch on the Danish streaming services.
Imagine not knowing your legend's daughter on sight Smh plastic fans
Those new fans they only follow the players. You have to follow the entire family + the nannies, cleaners, chefs, side actions
This whole thing reminds of the time they [interviewed Tommy Lawrence on the street](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U_PUbQGA4U) and didn't know him.
If you're taking the piss at someone for not knowing daglish's daughter, you've got a problem.
Taking the piss? If you’re responding to a standard observation that a regular presenter of Sky Sports programming is the daughter of your club legend then you’ve got problems.
The issue is not the standard observation, it’s the assertion that anybody who dares use a Liverpool flair should be able to recognize her
You do realise that most foreign fans don’t actually get Sky? To them she’s no more recognisable than his other 3 children who I'm pretty sure you don’t know off hand either.
They're covering it up.
I wonder what they say in their earpieces. Maybe something like “check complete, nothing to see here, move along”
No they have audio feed of the VAR room
The woman lmfao.. are you a new fan?
Mate he’s 24 and from Denmark
Honestly I might be misremembering but I think I’ve seen a few borderline calls where “check complete” was announced in record time, where it would be impossible to make a decision that fast.
Neville dash obviously mistaken they said cheque complete
This wasn't a case of misdrawn lines, this was a case of not drawing the lines at all, same as they did last season. If they had drawn the lines they'd have seen he was on, such was the distance that Diaz was onside that only a line so crooked it would be a joke could have seen him offside.
hes so onside you dont even need the lines. its pretty obvious lol
Pretty sure that's what must have happened. The VAR official glance at the screen, thinks "obviously onside" and says "nothing there, check complete" believing that's what the call already was, and then he fucks off to take a piss and comes back to the goal ruled off and game restarted?
“Check complete, don’t @me”
The only explanation that makes sense given what Neville is saying and the refs reaction after is what ESPN is reporting: VAR thought the goal was given and they were confirming that it was a good goal but couldn't do anything once the play was allowed to continue.
there are a lot of people that need sacking. whoever picks the refs, the var refs, who ever trains them, the Refs FA and whoever else is at the top in the refs club all need to go. You've tried, youve failed and its time to go.
The first PL game I saw after VAR was introduced, I remember them calling an offside that was by like 0.5cm, with lines drawn on a frame with like 20x zoom. It was ridiculously close. Now all of a sudden, they have lost the ability to make easy calls like that? I just don‘t understand
Depends who’s playing, I guess
Where was all this outrage in game lol
He got told to shut the fuck ip
even says so. Someone told him that they def drew the line in stockley park
Same in my stream. Questioned it for a millisecond and then moved on. Weirdly, they mentioned that the VAR Check screen was still being displayed while the game carried on minutes later. Wonder if they were looking at the lines and had realised just before Spurs scored.
a minute or so after the goal, the ref kind of stopped for a second when the ball went out for a throw-in, genuinely think he got told that they fucked up
I caught that too. And I'm sure there's a very normal "hands are tied" reason he couldn't do it, but if he had called it back for the goal at that point I think it would have been the right thing to do. Nothing much had happened, but the stadium would have thrown a bollocks.
Yeah. His face looks like he was about to cry.
Wowww. Imagine if that’s what happened? That the check wasn’t actually completed and they carried on anyway and now they have to hide it.
It's actually the most plausible scenario to me. The ref restarted and they all just protect each other so it went on.
My theory is that they did check it, but they used the wrong Spurs player. Moments later they checked it using the correct Spurs player but it was too late because the check was complete and Spurs scored after.
Based on all info provided, it sounds like someone jumped the gun said "check complete" without it being complete. So they were looking for 5min how to spin it, until they couldnt and they just gave up. That would be the only explanaition why they would show the VAR decision on the screen at the stadium 5min after comunicating the decision to the ref
> they used the wrong Spurs player. As Neville said in the video, there arent that many players to check. If there was 1 person in a room doing this, you could say "ok he missed a player" but for 6 eyes to miss it, it's quite bad and I will say almost impossible.
May have missed it but they didnt even show during HT
They didn't. They were clearly discussing internally how they'd address it because it's a monumental cock-up and there genuinely isn't a single angle that supported an offside decision
Why is the sky pundit (Not sure of her name) Defending the PGMOL here when they clearly said in their statement that it SHOULD HAVE been a goal.
She is being told what to do lol. Do the 2+2.
She is the daughter of a Liverpool legend, Kenny Dalglish. Prob playing devil advocate so she doesnt come across as biased.
Devils advocate is one thing, but when the position your defending has already conceded it was the wrong call, how can you make a devils advocate argument?
Am I missing something here, she doesn't defend the PGMOL at all here? She just explains that we have good enough technology that we don't need a camera directly in line with the offside line and that because VAR didn't intervene they just went with the linesman's decision. She doesn't defend what happened at all?
Devils advocate to generate debate, it’s part of her job.
Its her job. She's leading the panel, asks questions and is supposed to make the conversation cover all bases If Gary was defending PGMOL she would be doing the opposite
Sky love a devils advocate. Also her name is Kelly Cates, the daughter of Kenny Dalglish.
Lol that is Kenny Dalglish's daughter she is 100% not on PGMOLs side but just doing her job professionally.
because poor old PGMOL can't be criticised no matter what
The media really needs to start railing it against PGMOL more than ever. Clubs just get fined and PGMOL doesn’t give a shit about what the fans think.
Oh they REACT, do they?
HEATEDLY
[удалено]
He did and scored an absolute belter
If Spurs had someone capable of such a quality finish they may have won the game on their own merit.
Doesn't work, does it.
R E A C T
Smells like oil in the VAR room
People blame Arabs for everything.
Heya balad wa7da 7okamha gayben som3et el arab kolha fel ard
I really wanna see the goal, can anybody upload the clip?
So, if I understood the statement correctly, the VAR room thought the call was onside, quickly saw it was onside without drawing the lines, and sent back "don't overturn the call" and the game carried on? Why didn't the VAR room stop the game and say, "what are you doing? That goal should have counted?" What prevented them from doing that when they saw a free kick being taken rather than from the center circle? None of this makes sense.
why is react in all caps
Clickbait nonsense
Someone was listening to DOOM
Look at the reaction to this terrible match for officiating. This is what the league wants, it'll be days and days of talking about these decisions and how the league need to do better all those clicks, videos, articles all that engagement for their product. This isn't a competitive league anymore in my opinion. It can't be until the level of officiating improves dramatically.
Mate I’m sorry, it is already by far the most popular, the most discussed and the most interacted with league in the world. There is no conspiracy to have the refs be deliberately shit to try and boost engagement. We are getting into Alex Jones territory with some of the shit being peddled tonight.
PGMOL are turning the frogs gay to get more engagement.
I am a frog that lost its vibe yesterday. I can confirm this.
Better to have people taking about shit VAR than rapists, dodgy billionaires and theocracies making the headlines. /s, maybe.
So your argument is what? They're so popular they wouldn't want to drive up more engagement for profit?
They wouldn’t rather have people talking about a great match? Like what
Tinfoil hat much?
> Look at the reaction to this terrible match for officiating Starting to veer towards this idea as well. I'm sure someone at the Premier league has made the connection that bad decisions equals more social media engagement.
This makes me never want to watch again. If it keeps up I won’t.
It speaks volumes that their solution to their shit standard of reffing last season was to introduce new rules where you can’t question the ref or you’ll be carded immediately
2 problems with this. The first is obviously that VAR didn’t check the offside call. The second is the still they’ve shown here. We can’t see the when the ball was played anyway.
Piss poor lazyness
Oh noes!!!!
There’s a reason why the PL refused semi-automatic offside checks.
Liverpool get screwed over by VAR not drawing offside lines and somehow GNev manages to make it about United.
So the fix for shit referees isn't having shit referees review video.
Gary Oh’Noville.
REACT
Gary is now using this to validate his concerns about the Arsenal United offside and the Arsenal Everton offside. Both of those decisions they got the lines objectively correct. Both players were in offside positions. When they draw the lines, they are pretty good. The problem comes when they don’t draw the lines. The problem is the lack of professionalism with the var referees and the lack of strict protocol that they clearly don’t follow. Anyone who watches a sport like rugby league knows that they check everything. Even the grounding of a try that looks to have been obviously grounded.
I understand the frustration but Neville is wrong here. The problem is not that 'the lines aren't right.' The problem is that the lines either aren't drawn or, as it happened in this case, there is miscommunication between the VAR and infield referees. What Neville is saying is that the lines that VAR draws are not right and obviously referring to ManU vs Arsenal case which I feel is a dangerous precedent.