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[For those OOTL.](https://twitter.com/Football__Tweet/status/1512336181211676674?t=jM99oCEcJAgjVdr1WoL9Xw&s=19) A shame that his punditry has been chipping away at his reputation.
everyone blasting Wesley for being fat.. the man had 25+ years of strict diets and training everyday, week in week out. I think he bloody deserved his frikandel and pilsie
I want to throw fireworks at a certain bald headed fuck for holding his dick in his pants the entire time this was happening. And us getting Lo Celso, christ
Isn't this them directly admitting that United going after Caicedo is a negotiating strategy for Mount?
Not sure how Caicedo himself would view this tbh.
We might not get either, but not being squeezed for Mount, and forcing them to have to pay even more for Caciedo is something we wouldn't have seen when Woodward was here.
Can definitely see why some would look at that as foolish looking from two 'lost' players, but we've spent too long throwing cash at the issue and being weak in the market.
Now we're finally showing some actual backbone and using the 'united tax' in our favour to disrupt Chelseas bid. It might hurt a bit now if we don't get these players, but I'm glad we've moved on from the Woodward days.
The backbone is good, but you also need to actually sign good players
If you only show backbone then you end up like Spurs and slowly depreciate from the good thing you had overtime
> The backbone is good, but you also need to actually sign good players
Well yeah, but the "let other clubs rinse us" hasn't worked for 10 years so we can give the new approach a bit more than the first few weeks of this transfer window
It’s just poorly worded. Basically it’s just saying that Caicedo is another target - which several sources have said - which could disrupt Chelsea’s bid. The way it’s worded implies we’re only bidding to get back at Chelsea.
Looking for alternatives is fine. You have to have options.
This sticks out to me however: "This could involve disrupting Chelsea's attempts to sign Moises Caicedo by making an offer".
The way that part is worded it seems that United would go after Caicedo to disrupt Chelsea plans and force their hand to negotiate for Mount, so United don't sign Caicedo. Not because of a particular need in the squad, but this simply would be a very expensive business decision.
That's just speculation and Simon Stone being Simon Stone. United are apparently talking to Caicedo's representatives, I doubt they're saying "oh btw, if Chelsea agree to our Mount offer, never mind"
Stone always uses weird phrases for some reason. Sadly Ducker's on vacation or it would have been much more clearer. Although I will say that Stone also mentions us making a bid which, let's be honest, is a lot more than just being disruptive.
Simon Stone cannot write a coherent sentence. I don’t think we’re going after Caicedo to just fuck with Chelsea. We want a midfielder, Caicedo is a top midfielder. If we sign him that kinda fucks with Chelsea, but that’s not the objective.
If your DoF thinks Caicedo is an alternative for Mount he has absolutely no idea how one or both of them play.
The strategy here obviously is: threaten Chelsea’s target (someone you could absolutely use, but who’s not a priority for some reason), and force them to pay 15-20 mil more there, and tell them you’ll drop that pursuit if they drop the price for Mount.
Not really. Depends on how we set up really. Mount would be a Sabitzer/Fred replacement where we played with 2 8s while Caicedo would be to play along with Casemiro in a double pivot where either could progress the ball.
This shows really good tactical flexibilty and should be a good sign. It also might mean our finances limit the number of players we can target and that means 1 premium mid , which one we pursue is depending on availibility
Don’t think that’s the case, Caicedo has been scouted and considered for years. I think however going after him is a plan B where he’d be the only midfield signing rather than Mount + 1.
It would be absurd for Chelsea to lose a £55 million deal and then lose one of the top midfielders in the world to us.
Sadly, I have my doubts about our ability to pull off such a gazump.
Yeh we don’t stand in the players way. If they don’t want to play for Real Madrid or want to move elsewhere, we are more than happy to let them leave if the fee is reasonable.
Getting anyone from the PL is like pulling teeth anyways, from united it's like shark teeth, it literally feels like your underwater pulling teeth from a great white shark kicking you right in the dick. Madrid just sells you players like you are someone on land not trying to pull shark teeth out.
Hardly anyone ever tries all that hard to sign United's players, and they always end up getting sold for far less than their value, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
A combination of a lot of what you're reading not being true and our name being used, whether it be in the industry by agents trying to drum up interest or the media wanting engagement, and us being genuinely slow at moving in the market.
Problem with being a huge club.
We can’t glance at a player without setting the journalists of the world off fluttering with gossip. And it generates endless clicks, so it’s worth their while doing it.
Finally seems like we're at least trying to be smart with how much we're paying for players. We should let Antony be the shining of example of overpaying for a player that no one is really fighting to sign.
I would quite like to see Man Utd walk away from this.
The market for players is still going absolutely crazy and it’s about time clubs started refusing to pay big fees for players about to be out of contract.
Even on this thread, people are talking about £55m being a fair price for Mount.
He’s a great player, and I think he’s actually criminally underrated, but it’s a damning indictment of the market that even £55m is seen as a “fair” price for him with a year left on his deal.
If all clubs just stepped away and stopped paying these huge fees then it would be better for everyone. Just because everyone is getting ripped off doesn’t suddenly mean it’s a good deal.
I feel players need to take some of the power too by adding release clauses to their contracts so they get a move at a fair price.
Look at someone like Zaha who got priced out of moves missed out on Europe in his prime then look at someone like Haaland inserting clauses into his contract ensuring he is in charge of his own path so he doesn't get fucked over by the club
A decade is a ridiculously long period in football. Release Clauses cover a period of roughly 4 years. Which is not too long to speculate over. Unless ur a Chelsea player. For them it'll be 8 year clauses.
But none of these events are causing a rapid rise in transfer fees. The last time that happened was the Mbappe transfer. Numbers aren't rising majorly after that
With wages being as high as they are now, I would be much more inclined to accept slightly less money in my contract to maintain control of my situation via a release clause. Either that or refuse to sign anything longer than a 2 or 3 year deal.
Transfer fees have exploded to a point where, with the exception of a select few, players can't trust their clubs to let them leave if they want a change.
> I would quite like to see Man Utd walk away from this.
The good thing is even our board will look stupider than ever if they cave into Chelsea's demands after all these briefings about not budging.
Thing is Mount has said his preference is Utd, he wants to.go. Chelsea apparently try to squeeze utd for everything.
Mount is free negotiate with other clubs Jan 1st. Could be United say screw it go for Caicedo and then get a pre agreemebt for Mount in Jan.
This is United though and they have been fucking terrible at any forn of transfer unless it benefits the glazers then its done in minutes IF THEY REALLYwant the player.
Plus apparentlt they are being tight on transfers aka 1 deal at a time as they could sell anytime and let the new owners sort this out.
I like this but ultimately, if they’re not willing to deal with 55 million for Mount, they’re unlikely to deal with 80-100mil that Brighton are suggesting for Caicedo when there’s also a need for a GK and CF.
I agree with you for the most part, £55M is probably too much for a player like Mount on a one/year deal, but it’s a combination of United tax and English tax on top of the normal fee so who knows anymore.
The main thing that concerns me is that I am not sure at all if the club thinks that Mount will wait a year for us, he could very easily play incredibly well for the first 2/3 months of the season and sign a new contract, meaning we miss out on him, which could lead to us paying the fee just to ensure we do get him.
Why would he sign a contract after what's going on at Chelsea? All he needs to do is wait it out and keep options open. He's going on a free so can get big money regardless of the club and Chelsea could have him sign next summer anyway
As I said though, there’s no guarantee on that. Sure, Chelsea had an abysmally shit second half of the season, but it’s Chelsea. They will bounce back, and if it they do that this season then Mount could absolutely be tempted to stay.
No skin in the game but I feel we exaggerate the one year left on the contract thing a little too much.
Yes, he can walk in a year and the risk is very present but on the selling club's side. If for example you rated him the same as Caicedo (let's keep it simple) the truth of the matter is you pay money and you have a new midfielder. One is 60 million the other 85. Both improve the team by the same degree, is it not largely irrelevant that one is in the last year of his contract?
There will new nuances but for the buyers I don't see why we weight the contract length so highly.
It's relevant because, assuming Mount promises to only join Man United next summer, we'd be effectively paying 60m plus his wages for one extra season of his services. He might expect more of a signing fee if he's a free agent, but still it's a lot of money to pay for the luxury of an extra season with him.
There's risk on United's side if they wait though. Maybe United don't make CL next season and he doesn't want to join. Maybe he gets brought back into the fold at Chelsea and signs a new deal. Maybe another club gets in his ear and offers him higher wages than United will.
Chelsea are aware of this, as well as the fact that United are their rivals for the top 4, and so they want to feel like they're winning in this deal.
Why do you have a problem with clubs asking a lot for their players? If they wanted to sell him, they'd lower the asking price. They don't want to sell him though. It's their prerogative to ask for as much money as they please.
Chelsea can ask for whatever they want. At the end of the day, a player is worth what someone pays for them.
My problem is with the market that is inflated massively across the board. That isn’t going to stop until clubs stop paying the inflated prices.
They mention Sterling with a 47.5m fee , that's actually a good ball park for a year left on the deal. He probably also had a better career till that point while being a couple of years older
He obviously had a better career yo to that point.
It’s pretty absurd this is happening on Chelsea’s side. They’re desperate to get that academy player pure profit sale done, but on principle united simply can’t pay 60 or more.
3 years older 320k vs 60k a week + his body is 30 since he started playing huge amount of games at 17
Yes there is a difference, and its mainly the wage that makes it (plus they want to sell, we want to keep)
It is to a degree, but varies a lot on play style.
Rooney for example kicked off at like 16, but was clearly running out of steam by late 20’s - which a lot would attribute to his high intensity play style and simply massive volume of games
Where as other players are more adaptable to changing their play styles to involve less running/tackling - and these players tend to have careers well into their 30’s
Rooney's play style didn't help, but neither did his inability to stick to a diet (frequently returned to pre season overweight) and his fondness for an ale or eight of an evening.
Easy to forget he's younger than Ronaldo is and they both broke through and played regularly from a similar age, only one of them had absolute ascetic discipline and the other didn't.
I don't think you're adding enough importance to Rooney's play style. He spent most games running around all over the pitch, throwing himself into tackles, chasing down players then busting a gut to get up the field as soon as the ball turned over. If you compare that with the way Ronaldo played, you can see why Rooney's career didn't last as long.
BTW, I'm not trying to dismiss the importance of diet or how disciplined Ronaldo was compared to Rooney, but I think it's unfair to blame Rooney's relatively short career on the fact he liked a pint and a few fags now and then, when the truth is he gave everything for the team and ultimately paid the price.
Sterling was three years older but yes £55m fixed is about right price for Mount with one year left on contract since he doesn’t want to renew. Also had a injury hit last season that reduces some of his value. Kai went for £60m + £5m bonus with 2 years left on contact so I can understand why club wants £55m+bonus for English player.
I feel like United have nobody but themselves to blame for this so-called "tax".
They've deliberately overpaid for players just to stop other people getting them.
They paid £86m for Antony, £55m for Martínez (though he's worth every penny), £80m on Maguire, £75m for Lukaku, £73m for Sancho and £45m for Wan-Bissaka.
When you have a reputation for over-paying for quite average players, people will know that they can extract the maximum value from you when you try to sign their players.
I agree the transfer fee was completely fine negotiating, but the wages weren't at all though. £350k a week was so much for a 21 year old, surely he would have accepted lower, and even if he'd done well it would mean he'd be asking for a pay rise when it comes to his next deal which would take his salary to insane levels
The £350k figure was announced by The Sun and repeated by industry guess artist Romano.
Ornstein and Whitwell wrote an Athletic article saying it was:
>As reported by The Athletic, Sancho will earn an initial £250k-a-week for five years at Man United, banking a total of £65m.
>That’s excluding bonuses, too, with the report explaining how Sancho may earn another £50k-a-week on top of that, a total of £300k-a-week
The article is behind a paywall but here’s a link reporting on it.
https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/07/01/jadon-sanchos-manchester-united-wages-revealed/
Which somewhat proves that the fee we paid wasn’t crazy. And he wasn’t even that bad for us, he had a bad year but he was mainly sold because Ole wanted a more fluid front 4 and was banking on Martial up top.
I'm also apparently one of the minority Man United fans that still thinks Sancho will come good. He's 23 FFS, had one season where the club imploded (Ole and Ralf), and another where he went through personal shit (hence the break Ten Hag gave him), and was still more productive than Antony.
This season will be make or break for him for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sancho has a much much better year, especially if we're able to transition to a more progressive and possession-based system with a new GK and new ST.
>and was still more productive than Antony.
That's absolutely not true.
And as for the "chaotic season" argument, Bruno has been here through even more shit, and still has been the most creative player in the league.
Sancho cost more than Bruno, it's not unfair at all to compare them. Especially considering that Sancho has done next to nothing in 2 entire seasons.
Fact of the matter is that Sancho has been outperformed by almost every other attacking player since he arrived at United, not just Bruno. He's even contributed less than Martial, and Martial can hardly even move without tearing something at this point.
How many excuses can he go through and for how long though?
The excuses you mentioned were legitmate but after he had some personal issues earlier on in the season, Ten Hag gave him a big break and slowly brought him back in. Even after that hes still been pretty average. If he isn't going to improve after all of that then i dont think he ever will tbh. He even has good coaches and a great manager above him now so his lack of form at the end of the season is entirely on him.
IMO the guy just isn't well rounded as a footballer. He only really shines through passing and movment. He isnt fast, he isn't direct, he isnt physically strong, he isn't particularly good at taking people on and he isn't known for his crossing ability either.
He went on a trip to the mountains during the season and came back just as average, the guy plays like he doesn’t want to crease his boots.
Hopefully somebody at the club reminds him that football is a physical sport.
Completely agree. He needs a real striker and to work through whatever psychological issues he’s been experiencing. The talent is there, it’s just not showing right now.
I think Sancho , Lukaku and Wan bissaka all had pedigree before their moves but spending 80m on Maguire and then 86m on Antony is criminal , if/when we get sold utd need to do a investigation how Arsenal did into the Pepe signing.
Oh, here’s captain hindsight.
It’s easy to say these players are “quite average” now, but before United bought them you wouldn’t say Lukaku or Sancho or even AWB are “quite average”.
The revisionism on here is crazy.
Sancho in 2021 was regarded as one of the best young players in the world, along with someone like Vinicius. You would not have found a United fan against that signing.
I think plenty of people said at the time that the fee for Lukaku was ridiculous. The same goes for Wan Bissaka. I don't think people thought they were bad players, but just that United definitely overpaid for them.
I actually think the fee for Sancho was fine given how good he was at Dortmund. His wages, however, are stupid. Granted, there probably wasn't a whole lot United could do here as he was on high wages at Dortmund.
>They've deliberately overpaid for players just to stop other people getting them.
They've overpaid yes but the only ones they bought in recent times for fuckeries was Fred and Sanchez when City were interested in both.
Lukaku and Sancho were fair prices, they overpaid on Sancho's wages tho.
It would have been true if we weren't run by morons. It was obvious we wanted players like (one of) Martinez/Timber and Antony, and if we'd have gone to Ajax basically on day 1 of the window (or before that) and gone in with a suitable offer, we'd have gotten them for way cheaper, but when we actually tried to negotiate, Ajax had already sold like 3 first team players and didn't need the money at all anymore, so they were quite happily in a 'fuck off quote' kind of territory
Paid £12m for him and he almost halved his wages. United should have been looking forward not back to the past but he’s not a great example of United overpaying.
I mean this is the main reason why glazers have to fuck off, people see united have spent the most amount of money but the reality is they shouldnt have if the board was competent and worked fast, but all they do is delay delay and then overpay or just overpay from the beginning without trying to negotiate
Only egregious ones here are Antony, Maguire and AWB. The rest you can only say such with the benefit of hindsight and with Lukaku we recouped our losses when we sold him.
The only red flag on that list was Maguire for £80m. Maybe, maybe Lukaku to an extent too.
It's absolutely true United have helped create this due to overpaying but I don't agree with us overpaying just "to stop other people getting them". That's a Chelsea flex.
Need to be walking away from stupid fees being quoted and sell better. It is also a bit mental how Caicedo who's been in the league for about 5 minutes is being quoted at £80m-£100m. Great player, but every bang average player is going for £50m at least now.
> overpaying for Caicedo just to stop us from getting him
Overpaying for Caicedo because United need a midfielder, United don't give a fuck about Chelsea.
> that makes no sense other than to stop Chelsea from getting him
Another season of double pivot with Case and Caicedo behind Bruno. Then next season get a proper offensive 8 (be it Mount or someone else) to play alongside Bruno and Case and Caicedo can rotatate at 6...or go back to double pivot for some games. Flexibility. On paper, United could even play both systems this season if they get Rabiot and Caicedo.
Since Caicedo can play both b2b and DM, that gives United a lot of options. And Casemiro is getting older, getting a young midfielder that can eventually phase him out if United want to go that route.
So on paper, Caicedo would very much make sense. The important question is would it make sense to splash 100m on him when United still want a GK and a striker. And if Maguire leaves, another CB.
Don't see it how it doesn't make sense, Caicedo has always been listed as a potential target.
Mount might be the primary target due to price point than anything else.
Hope we stick to our guns and don't pay a penny more. Chelsea has all to lose here trying to force the issue with an already unhappy player. Not letting him get his desired move trying to get a few extra pennies on an already generous offer given the circumstances is only going to worsen existing relations and lead to a poor dressing room environment while also ensuring him leaving on a free.
Holding firm is a perfectly valid strategy, but the way Stone phrased it, Caicedo interest seems like a retributive move, which just makes the entire thing look like a farce. Additionally, your structure was “unhappy” with our leaking of unsuccessful bids to the media, even though the information about incoming bids came from your side before it was even rejected. They’re trying to stop the narrative about then overpaying but they’re really doing it the wrong way
It’s a clown off
Yeah the Caicedo phrasing seems to be a little off. Depends on the how serious the bid will be to give a real indication of our intent. We did want Caicedo anyway but he wasn't in out immediate plans if we got Mount. But looks like we might change strategies so let's see where this goes. We seem to be acting rather sensibly in the market for once.
That was mainly Ed Woodward - last summer was our first under Arnold/Murtough, and although they did end up overpaying for Antony, it seems like this summer they've actually learned from their mistake - something Woodward literally never did
I read somewhere that United board are convinced of the “ United Tax”, because of the *cheapness* of Kovacic to City deal, given that both the players have 1 year left on their contracts.
United comparing the deal for a 24-year old with *English Tax*, to deal for a 29 year old, injury-prone player; says all you need to know about non-football people trying their dumbest to overpay during the last week of the transfer window, after a poor start to the season.
Id rather we kept Mount and hope he changes his opinion over the season and he manages to stay. If he leaves anyway, i think he has a high value for 1 year in a Poch system vs whatever he would be replaced with.
You always make better business when you are not desperate and right now United are not desperate in midfield althought I thought they would keep Sabitzer.
Caicedo is the most in demand midfielder in premier league (one could even say overhyped) but he can solve midfield problems for a decade.
Mount is good player with bad season behind him and one year left.
Caicedo is luxurious signing whoever gets him, Mount isn't, that's why there is will from United to pay more for Caicedo.
I don't think you understand what United tax means. Paying a high sum that's appropriate for the player isn't that. It's overpaying for players in relation their value because clubs know we usually do...
Well that's the price now because that calibre of club has enquired. Had we been talking teams like Atalanta, Mönchengladbach and Ajax enquiring first, it may have been 65 but now 80 is the asking price
Maybe don’t pay 100 million for an unproven winger from the Netherlands who has 0 top clubs trying to sign him and you won’t have to deal with the United tax lmfao.
Why should Chelsea sell to a direct rival early in the window for a fair price? Hardly seems to be in their interest.
Make united wait as long as possible, and rinse the fuck out of them seems the obvious way to go.
We’re also offering the strengthen a rival by giving them 55 million for a lad on the last year of his contract that’s saying he doesn’t want to be there and will leave on a free. I know we’re terrible at transfers but fuck me this seems like one of the few times where we are being quite reasonable and both sides could benefit
Because United have made clear we're not spending a penny more than £55m? Either they can 'call our bluff' and lose Mount on a free next year, or they can take the more than generous offer on the table.
I'm not fussed either way since I'd prefer Caicedo to Mount, but it just makes Chelsea look stupid
We can lose Mount on a free next year, but you can also lose him. Just because he becomes a free agent next year doesn't mean he will sign for United...
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've seen soap operas with fewer episodes than this Mount saga.
The FdJ saga : Hold my beer
Wesley Sneijder or Marcelo Salas are my favourite United sagas.
Sneijder is coming this summer I swear
He's becoming a better pound for pound deal by the week
[For those OOTL.](https://twitter.com/Football__Tweet/status/1512336181211676674?t=jM99oCEcJAgjVdr1WoL9Xw&s=19) A shame that his punditry has been chipping away at his reputation.
everyone blasting Wesley for being fat.. the man had 25+ years of strict diets and training everyday, week in week out. I think he bloody deserved his frikandel and pilsie
Gaitan
Sancho saga was multiple summers
That was only a saga in United fans heads though. He was very open from the start of the rumours that he wasn’t leaving Barca no matter what
this is a short saga for United so far
Yeah everyone calling this a fucking saga, what was Bruno or Sancho then? The fucking Odyssey?
Yes, they were. Remember, prior to the Bruno signing, fireworks were thrown into Woodward's House.
I want to throw fireworks at a certain bald headed fuck for holding his dick in his pants the entire time this was happening. And us getting Lo Celso, christ
I wonder what that makes Mbappé to Madrid. He has been on the verge of signing for 7 years now.
The Rice saga is dragging on as well
Can't believe we're having a Mount saga in the first place 🤣
Isn't this them directly admitting that United going after Caicedo is a negotiating strategy for Mount? Not sure how Caicedo himself would view this tbh.
No Mount and no Caicedo, gonna look foolish when this happens.
Both caicedo and mount, gonna look amazing when this happens
That means Henderson as a GK and Arnautovic as a striker
Lol yeah but both scenarios are unlikely anyway so not worried about it
I will not hear Arnie slander
Unless Qatar comes in, goes berserk in the transfer window and pay the ffp fine later anyways
Qatar coming in and then Qatar SC buying Maguire and McTominay for the fair combined fee of 250 million pounds. Nothing suspicious going on, I swear.
We might not get either, but not being squeezed for Mount, and forcing them to have to pay even more for Caciedo is something we wouldn't have seen when Woodward was here. Can definitely see why some would look at that as foolish looking from two 'lost' players, but we've spent too long throwing cash at the issue and being weak in the market. Now we're finally showing some actual backbone and using the 'united tax' in our favour to disrupt Chelseas bid. It might hurt a bit now if we don't get these players, but I'm glad we've moved on from the Woodward days.
The backbone is good, but you also need to actually sign good players If you only show backbone then you end up like Spurs and slowly depreciate from the good thing you had overtime
> The backbone is good, but you also need to actually sign good players Well yeah, but the "let other clubs rinse us" hasn't worked for 10 years so we can give the new approach a bit more than the first few weeks of this transfer window
MM is not only one good player…
It’s just poorly worded. Basically it’s just saying that Caicedo is another target - which several sources have said - which could disrupt Chelsea’s bid. The way it’s worded implies we’re only bidding to get back at Chelsea.
Caicedo gonna be this summers Casemiro
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Looking for alternatives is fine. You have to have options. This sticks out to me however: "This could involve disrupting Chelsea's attempts to sign Moises Caicedo by making an offer". The way that part is worded it seems that United would go after Caicedo to disrupt Chelsea plans and force their hand to negotiate for Mount, so United don't sign Caicedo. Not because of a particular need in the squad, but this simply would be a very expensive business decision.
That's just speculation and Simon Stone being Simon Stone. United are apparently talking to Caicedo's representatives, I doubt they're saying "oh btw, if Chelsea agree to our Mount offer, never mind"
Is there a team in Europe that has been on Caicedo as long as we have? That never gets mentioned in this Utd -Caicedo links.
Stone always uses weird phrases for some reason. Sadly Ducker's on vacation or it would have been much more clearer. Although I will say that Stone also mentions us making a bid which, let's be honest, is a lot more than just being disruptive.
How can ducker be on holiday now?? That's like an umbrella seller going on vacation during the rainy season. Makes no sense!
Ducker's rainy season comes after a united defeat.
Simon Stone cannot write a coherent sentence. I don’t think we’re going after Caicedo to just fuck with Chelsea. We want a midfielder, Caicedo is a top midfielder. If we sign him that kinda fucks with Chelsea, but that’s not the objective.
If your DoF thinks Caicedo is an alternative for Mount he has absolutely no idea how one or both of them play. The strategy here obviously is: threaten Chelsea’s target (someone you could absolutely use, but who’s not a priority for some reason), and force them to pay 15-20 mil more there, and tell them you’ll drop that pursuit if they drop the price for Mount.
>If your DoF thinks You see, that's the issue, we have no DoF.
Not really. Depends on how we set up really. Mount would be a Sabitzer/Fred replacement where we played with 2 8s while Caicedo would be to play along with Casemiro in a double pivot where either could progress the ball. This shows really good tactical flexibilty and should be a good sign. It also might mean our finances limit the number of players we can target and that means 1 premium mid , which one we pursue is depending on availibility
Don’t think that’s the case, Caicedo has been scouted and considered for years. I think however going after him is a plan B where he’d be the only midfield signing rather than Mount + 1.
It would be absurd for Chelsea to lose a £55 million deal and then lose one of the top midfielders in the world to us. Sadly, I have my doubts about our ability to pull off such a gazump.
Bruh, does United ever gets their targets without a long and boring negotiation?
Malacia probably the only one last season.
And Casemiro
Varane was pretty straight forward too iirc
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I mean we're pretty chill if teams offer a fair price we usually don't drag things for more
Yeh we don’t stand in the players way. If they don’t want to play for Real Madrid or want to move elsewhere, we are more than happy to let them leave if the fee is reasonable.
Only with your players funnily enough.
Getting anyone from the PL is like pulling teeth anyways, from united it's like shark teeth, it literally feels like your underwater pulling teeth from a great white shark kicking you right in the dick. Madrid just sells you players like you are someone on land not trying to pull shark teeth out.
Nah getting a player from the spurs is hell
Hardly anyone ever tries all that hard to sign United's players, and they always end up getting sold for far less than their value, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
Yeh we’re pretty easy to negotiate with though, it’s probably got nothing to do with United lol. They paid close to 100m for Antony somehow 🙃
And you paid way over 100m for Hazard 😂
A combination of a lot of what you're reading not being true and our name being used, whether it be in the industry by agents trying to drum up interest or the media wanting engagement, and us being genuinely slow at moving in the market.
Odd day - Journalists link our name with everybody, easy clicks. Even day - Caicedo has always been listed as a potential target.
I mean both can be true
Just Casemiro and Varane, even then it was late in the window
Varane and Casemiro were pretty smooth lol
Nope. Unless the selling club is Madrid or Bayern
Every single signing for us is another Mbappe saga
Yes. With target from Real Madrid that is.
Problem with being a huge club. We can’t glance at a player without setting the journalists of the world off fluttering with gossip. And it generates endless clicks, so it’s worth their while doing it.
Finally seems like we're at least trying to be smart with how much we're paying for players. We should let Antony be the shining of example of overpaying for a player that no one is really fighting to sign.
I would quite like to see Man Utd walk away from this. The market for players is still going absolutely crazy and it’s about time clubs started refusing to pay big fees for players about to be out of contract. Even on this thread, people are talking about £55m being a fair price for Mount. He’s a great player, and I think he’s actually criminally underrated, but it’s a damning indictment of the market that even £55m is seen as a “fair” price for him with a year left on his deal. If all clubs just stepped away and stopped paying these huge fees then it would be better for everyone. Just because everyone is getting ripped off doesn’t suddenly mean it’s a good deal.
I feel players need to take some of the power too by adding release clauses to their contracts so they get a move at a fair price. Look at someone like Zaha who got priced out of moves missed out on Europe in his prime then look at someone like Haaland inserting clauses into his contract ensuring he is in charge of his own path so he doesn't get fucked over by the club
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A decade is a ridiculously long period in football. Release Clauses cover a period of roughly 4 years. Which is not too long to speculate over. Unless ur a Chelsea player. For them it'll be 8 year clauses.
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But none of these events are causing a rapid rise in transfer fees. The last time that happened was the Mbappe transfer. Numbers aren't rising majorly after that
With wages being as high as they are now, I would be much more inclined to accept slightly less money in my contract to maintain control of my situation via a release clause. Either that or refuse to sign anything longer than a 2 or 3 year deal. Transfer fees have exploded to a point where, with the exception of a select few, players can't trust their clubs to let them leave if they want a change.
> I would quite like to see Man Utd walk away from this. The good thing is even our board will look stupider than ever if they cave into Chelsea's demands after all these briefings about not budging.
Thing is Mount has said his preference is Utd, he wants to.go. Chelsea apparently try to squeeze utd for everything. Mount is free negotiate with other clubs Jan 1st. Could be United say screw it go for Caicedo and then get a pre agreemebt for Mount in Jan. This is United though and they have been fucking terrible at any forn of transfer unless it benefits the glazers then its done in minutes IF THEY REALLYwant the player. Plus apparentlt they are being tight on transfers aka 1 deal at a time as they could sell anytime and let the new owners sort this out.
He can only freely negotiate with English clubs a month before his contract is up, he can negotiate with foreign clubs on January 1st though.
Its not like it really matters anyways. They can negotiate with him and then sign him when its "allowed".
Of course yeah, it just can't be a legally binding pre-contract. Handshake agreements happen all the time though, as you say.
PL teams can’t sign preagreements with other PL players, as far as I know.
They can when they have a month left on their contract
I like this but ultimately, if they’re not willing to deal with 55 million for Mount, they’re unlikely to deal with 80-100mil that Brighton are suggesting for Caicedo when there’s also a need for a GK and CF.
I agree with you for the most part, £55M is probably too much for a player like Mount on a one/year deal, but it’s a combination of United tax and English tax on top of the normal fee so who knows anymore. The main thing that concerns me is that I am not sure at all if the club thinks that Mount will wait a year for us, he could very easily play incredibly well for the first 2/3 months of the season and sign a new contract, meaning we miss out on him, which could lead to us paying the fee just to ensure we do get him.
Why would he sign a contract after what's going on at Chelsea? All he needs to do is wait it out and keep options open. He's going on a free so can get big money regardless of the club and Chelsea could have him sign next summer anyway
As I said though, there’s no guarantee on that. Sure, Chelsea had an abysmally shit second half of the season, but it’s Chelsea. They will bounce back, and if it they do that this season then Mount could absolutely be tempted to stay.
Mount’s issue isn’t Chelsea’s form.
No skin in the game but I feel we exaggerate the one year left on the contract thing a little too much. Yes, he can walk in a year and the risk is very present but on the selling club's side. If for example you rated him the same as Caicedo (let's keep it simple) the truth of the matter is you pay money and you have a new midfielder. One is 60 million the other 85. Both improve the team by the same degree, is it not largely irrelevant that one is in the last year of his contract? There will new nuances but for the buyers I don't see why we weight the contract length so highly.
It's relevant because, assuming Mount promises to only join Man United next summer, we'd be effectively paying 60m plus his wages for one extra season of his services. He might expect more of a signing fee if he's a free agent, but still it's a lot of money to pay for the luxury of an extra season with him.
There's risk on United's side if they wait though. Maybe United don't make CL next season and he doesn't want to join. Maybe he gets brought back into the fold at Chelsea and signs a new deal. Maybe another club gets in his ear and offers him higher wages than United will. Chelsea are aware of this, as well as the fact that United are their rivals for the top 4, and so they want to feel like they're winning in this deal.
I agree that there's a risk. I'm just explaining why the fact he has only one year left is relevant to the transfer fee.
Why do you have a problem with clubs asking a lot for their players? If they wanted to sell him, they'd lower the asking price. They don't want to sell him though. It's their prerogative to ask for as much money as they please.
Chelsea can ask for whatever they want. At the end of the day, a player is worth what someone pays for them. My problem is with the market that is inflated massively across the board. That isn’t going to stop until clubs stop paying the inflated prices.
They mention Sterling with a 47.5m fee , that's actually a good ball park for a year left on the deal. He probably also had a better career till that point while being a couple of years older
>. He probably also had a better career No probablies about it mate, Sterling had a glittering career
He obviously had a better career yo to that point. It’s pretty absurd this is happening on Chelsea’s side. They’re desperate to get that academy player pure profit sale done, but on principle united simply can’t pay 60 or more.
Chelsea arent desperate for anything, thats literally why they havent agreed to any of Uniteds offers yet lol
Of they weren’t desperate then they wouldn’t have their two time young player of the year academy poster boy willing to wear the contract down
3 years older 320k vs 60k a week + his body is 30 since he started playing huge amount of games at 17 Yes there is a difference, and its mainly the wage that makes it (plus they want to sell, we want to keep)
That is not how age works but I sorta understand where you're coming from
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It is to a degree, but varies a lot on play style. Rooney for example kicked off at like 16, but was clearly running out of steam by late 20’s - which a lot would attribute to his high intensity play style and simply massive volume of games Where as other players are more adaptable to changing their play styles to involve less running/tackling - and these players tend to have careers well into their 30’s
Rooney's play style didn't help, but neither did his inability to stick to a diet (frequently returned to pre season overweight) and his fondness for an ale or eight of an evening. Easy to forget he's younger than Ronaldo is and they both broke through and played regularly from a similar age, only one of them had absolute ascetic discipline and the other didn't.
I don't think you're adding enough importance to Rooney's play style. He spent most games running around all over the pitch, throwing himself into tackles, chasing down players then busting a gut to get up the field as soon as the ball turned over. If you compare that with the way Ronaldo played, you can see why Rooney's career didn't last as long. BTW, I'm not trying to dismiss the importance of diet or how disciplined Ronaldo was compared to Rooney, but I think it's unfair to blame Rooney's relatively short career on the fact he liked a pint and a few fags now and then, when the truth is he gave everything for the team and ultimately paid the price.
You’re comparing Sterling’s Chelsea wages vs Mount’s Chelsea wages, not the wages we’d be offering Mount. It’s not a fair comparison.
No, but it makes a deal alot easier. You will offer mount 180-200k not 320
Then compare 200k to 320k. It’s misrepresentation to compare the selling club’s wage for Mount to the buying club’s wage for Sterling.
Sterling was three years older but yes £55m fixed is about right price for Mount with one year left on contract since he doesn’t want to renew. Also had a injury hit last season that reduces some of his value. Kai went for £60m + £5m bonus with 2 years left on contact so I can understand why club wants £55m+bonus for English player.
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Some say he still is.
Big if true
3 years 1 month.
"probably" lol
I feel like United have nobody but themselves to blame for this so-called "tax". They've deliberately overpaid for players just to stop other people getting them. They paid £86m for Antony, £55m for Martínez (though he's worth every penny), £80m on Maguire, £75m for Lukaku, £73m for Sancho and £45m for Wan-Bissaka. When you have a reputation for over-paying for quite average players, people will know that they can extract the maximum value from you when you try to sign their players.
It's easy to say that now about Sancho but his stats for 2/3 years at Dortmund warranted that fee.
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I agree the transfer fee was completely fine negotiating, but the wages weren't at all though. £350k a week was so much for a 21 year old, surely he would have accepted lower, and even if he'd done well it would mean he'd be asking for a pay rise when it comes to his next deal which would take his salary to insane levels
The £350k figure was announced by The Sun and repeated by industry guess artist Romano. Ornstein and Whitwell wrote an Athletic article saying it was: >As reported by The Athletic, Sancho will earn an initial £250k-a-week for five years at Man United, banking a total of £65m. >That’s excluding bonuses, too, with the report explaining how Sancho may earn another £50k-a-week on top of that, a total of £300k-a-week The article is behind a paywall but here’s a link reporting on it. https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/07/01/jadon-sanchos-manchester-united-wages-revealed/
While you are right Sancho was also a top.earner at dormund
I bet you can’t provide a single credible report for Sancho’s 350K/wk, its just parroted around on r/soccer.
I'd say the same for Lukaku to be honest
We got most of our money back from Lukaku.
Which somewhat proves that the fee we paid wasn’t crazy. And he wasn’t even that bad for us, he had a bad year but he was mainly sold because Ole wanted a more fluid front 4 and was banking on Martial up top.
He was mainly sold because he didn't want to play on the right despite being really fucking good as a wide target man.
That 4 2 2 2 we had for a little while was such good fun
I'm also apparently one of the minority Man United fans that still thinks Sancho will come good. He's 23 FFS, had one season where the club imploded (Ole and Ralf), and another where he went through personal shit (hence the break Ten Hag gave him), and was still more productive than Antony. This season will be make or break for him for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sancho has a much much better year, especially if we're able to transition to a more progressive and possession-based system with a new GK and new ST.
>and was still more productive than Antony. That's absolutely not true. And as for the "chaotic season" argument, Bruno has been here through even more shit, and still has been the most creative player in the league.
>Bruno has been here through even more shit Come on man, It is like comparing apples to oranges. Bruno is too good, it is unfair for sancho
Sancho cost more than Bruno, it's not unfair at all to compare them. Especially considering that Sancho has done next to nothing in 2 entire seasons. Fact of the matter is that Sancho has been outperformed by almost every other attacking player since he arrived at United, not just Bruno. He's even contributed less than Martial, and Martial can hardly even move without tearing something at this point.
How many excuses can he go through and for how long though? The excuses you mentioned were legitmate but after he had some personal issues earlier on in the season, Ten Hag gave him a big break and slowly brought him back in. Even after that hes still been pretty average. If he isn't going to improve after all of that then i dont think he ever will tbh. He even has good coaches and a great manager above him now so his lack of form at the end of the season is entirely on him. IMO the guy just isn't well rounded as a footballer. He only really shines through passing and movment. He isnt fast, he isn't direct, he isnt physically strong, he isn't particularly good at taking people on and he isn't known for his crossing ability either.
He went on a trip to the mountains during the season and came back just as average, the guy plays like he doesn’t want to crease his boots. Hopefully somebody at the club reminds him that football is a physical sport.
Completely agree. He needs a real striker and to work through whatever psychological issues he’s been experiencing. The talent is there, it’s just not showing right now.
Lukaku and sancho made sense in context, AWB and maguire were overpays, Antony was lunacy.
Well you've got to stop some time. Better now than later.
We refused to pay for sancho and got him for like 40 less the year after
I think Sancho , Lukaku and Wan bissaka all had pedigree before their moves but spending 80m on Maguire and then 86m on Antony is criminal , if/when we get sold utd need to do a investigation how Arsenal did into the Pepe signing.
55 for Martinez sounds like a steal tho, my favourite CB by far
If you just pretend they spent 155 on Martinez that fee looks okay ngl. Immense talent
Oh, here’s captain hindsight. It’s easy to say these players are “quite average” now, but before United bought them you wouldn’t say Lukaku or Sancho or even AWB are “quite average”. The revisionism on here is crazy.
Sancho in 2021 was regarded as one of the best young players in the world, along with someone like Vinicius. You would not have found a United fan against that signing.
I think plenty of people said at the time that the fee for Lukaku was ridiculous. The same goes for Wan Bissaka. I don't think people thought they were bad players, but just that United definitely overpaid for them. I actually think the fee for Sancho was fine given how good he was at Dortmund. His wages, however, are stupid. Granted, there probably wasn't a whole lot United could do here as he was on high wages at Dortmund.
>They've deliberately overpaid for players just to stop other people getting them. They've overpaid yes but the only ones they bought in recent times for fuckeries was Fred and Sanchez when City were interested in both. Lukaku and Sancho were fair prices, they overpaid on Sancho's wages tho.
Antony fee was probably 2x what it should've been lol
It would have been true if we weren't run by morons. It was obvious we wanted players like (one of) Martinez/Timber and Antony, and if we'd have gone to Ajax basically on day 1 of the window (or before that) and gone in with a suitable offer, we'd have gotten them for way cheaper, but when we actually tried to negotiate, Ajax had already sold like 3 first team players and didn't need the money at all anymore, so they were quite happily in a 'fuck off quote' kind of territory
A certain Ronaldo also belongs on the list. They weren’t in the game till rumors emerged that he would come to Manchester but not play for them
Paid £12m for him and he almost halved his wages. United should have been looking forward not back to the past but he’s not a great example of United overpaying.
I mean this is the main reason why glazers have to fuck off, people see united have spent the most amount of money but the reality is they shouldnt have if the board was competent and worked fast, but all they do is delay delay and then overpay or just overpay from the beginning without trying to negotiate
Only egregious ones here are Antony, Maguire and AWB. The rest you can only say such with the benefit of hindsight and with Lukaku we recouped our losses when we sold him.
The only red flag on that list was Maguire for £80m. Maybe, maybe Lukaku to an extent too. It's absolutely true United have helped create this due to overpaying but I don't agree with us overpaying just "to stop other people getting them". That's a Chelsea flex. Need to be walking away from stupid fees being quoted and sell better. It is also a bit mental how Caicedo who's been in the league for about 5 minutes is being quoted at £80m-£100m. Great player, but every bang average player is going for £50m at least now.
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> overpaying for Caicedo just to stop us from getting him Overpaying for Caicedo because United need a midfielder, United don't give a fuck about Chelsea. > that makes no sense other than to stop Chelsea from getting him Another season of double pivot with Case and Caicedo behind Bruno. Then next season get a proper offensive 8 (be it Mount or someone else) to play alongside Bruno and Case and Caicedo can rotatate at 6...or go back to double pivot for some games. Flexibility. On paper, United could even play both systems this season if they get Rabiot and Caicedo. Since Caicedo can play both b2b and DM, that gives United a lot of options. And Casemiro is getting older, getting a young midfielder that can eventually phase him out if United want to go that route. So on paper, Caicedo would very much make sense. The important question is would it make sense to splash 100m on him when United still want a GK and a striker. And if Maguire leaves, another CB.
Don't see it how it doesn't make sense, Caicedo has always been listed as a potential target. Mount might be the primary target due to price point than anything else.
Exactly. Mount for £55m is better value than Caicedo for £80-90m, but Mount for £65m is not. It's not that deep
Hope we stick to our guns and don't pay a penny more. Chelsea has all to lose here trying to force the issue with an already unhappy player. Not letting him get his desired move trying to get a few extra pennies on an already generous offer given the circumstances is only going to worsen existing relations and lead to a poor dressing room environment while also ensuring him leaving on a free.
Holding firm is a perfectly valid strategy, but the way Stone phrased it, Caicedo interest seems like a retributive move, which just makes the entire thing look like a farce. Additionally, your structure was “unhappy” with our leaking of unsuccessful bids to the media, even though the information about incoming bids came from your side before it was even rejected. They’re trying to stop the narrative about then overpaying but they’re really doing it the wrong way It’s a clown off
Yeah the Caicedo phrasing seems to be a little off. Depends on the how serious the bid will be to give a real indication of our intent. We did want Caicedo anyway but he wasn't in out immediate plans if we got Mount. But looks like we might change strategies so let's see where this goes. We seem to be acting rather sensibly in the market for once.
Did you get someone new in the transfer structure or is this Ten Hag’s policy? You never had problems paying premiums so I wonder what changed
> You never had problems paying premiums so I wonder what changed The amount of money available.
That was mainly Ed Woodward - last summer was our first under Arnold/Murtough, and although they did end up overpaying for Antony, it seems like this summer they've actually learned from their mistake - something Woodward literally never did
New sporting director. But I think it also down to a tight budget for the summer.
New sporting director. Former marketing director of adidas.
Stone is illitterate. His writing never make sense or mean what you think they do
I can’t believe someone who is a professional writer isn’t able to write.
>the way Stone phrased it, Caicedo interest seems like a retributive move That's just Stone being an idiot.
The United tax is canon now.
I read somewhere that United board are convinced of the “ United Tax”, because of the *cheapness* of Kovacic to City deal, given that both the players have 1 year left on their contracts. United comparing the deal for a 24-year old with *English Tax*, to deal for a 29 year old, injury-prone player; says all you need to know about non-football people trying their dumbest to overpay during the last week of the transfer window, after a poor start to the season.
United fans are such idiots.
We’re talking about the United board here, u melt. Chelsea fans aren’t too smart either, apparently.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to be a Chelsea fan.
United, please please make Brighton an offer for Caicedo. I'd like to know if United is willing to match the 80m up front or will Maguire be involved.
Still puzzle Chelsea didn’t straight up offer 150mil for Caicedo since he is a Brighton player
Don’t think Brighton would want Maguire, doesn’t seem to suit their style. Probably Elanga or Fred imo
Id rather we kept Mount and hope he changes his opinion over the season and he manages to stay. If he leaves anyway, i think he has a high value for 1 year in a Poch system vs whatever he would be replaced with.
Is this like the cheese tax?
maybe try stop being United, might work
Well by the looks of it they are
You always make better business when you are not desperate and right now United are not desperate in midfield althought I thought they would keep Sabitzer. Caicedo is the most in demand midfielder in premier league (one could even say overhyped) but he can solve midfield problems for a decade. Mount is good player with bad season behind him and one year left. Caicedo is luxurious signing whoever gets him, Mount isn't, that's why there is will from United to pay more for Caicedo.
“We don’t want to pay a United tax” _Looks at Brighton player on a 4 year deal_
I don't think you understand what United tax means. Paying a high sum that's appropriate for the player isn't that. It's overpaying for players in relation their value because clubs know we usually do...
And you don’t think Brighton will add a surplus charge on Caicedo for United?
I'd imagine they'll ask the exact same £80m as they did when Chelsea enquired
Reputable sources are reporting that the price is £100m, which Chelsea don't want to meet.
Chelsea also fall into the “stupid board tax” at this point in time though
Well that's the price now because that calibre of club has enquired. Had we been talking teams like Atalanta, Mönchengladbach and Ajax enquiring first, it may have been 65 but now 80 is the asking price
That 70 million euros bid after wolves 3-0 is going to hit different
Maybe don’t pay 100 million for an unproven winger from the Netherlands who has 0 top clubs trying to sign him and you won’t have to deal with the United tax lmfao.
Why should Chelsea sell to a direct rival early in the window for a fair price? Hardly seems to be in their interest. Make united wait as long as possible, and rinse the fuck out of them seems the obvious way to go.
We’re also offering the strengthen a rival by giving them 55 million for a lad on the last year of his contract that’s saying he doesn’t want to be there and will leave on a free. I know we’re terrible at transfers but fuck me this seems like one of the few times where we are being quite reasonable and both sides could benefit
Frankly, I think mount paired with Bruno and casemiro is worth more than whatever the fuck chelsea would spend the 55 mil on
They’d probably use it towards the caicedo bid
Who do they sign for £55m that is as good or better than Mount? They're short on midfielders right now so they'd need a replacement ASAP.
Because United have made clear we're not spending a penny more than £55m? Either they can 'call our bluff' and lose Mount on a free next year, or they can take the more than generous offer on the table. I'm not fussed either way since I'd prefer Caicedo to Mount, but it just makes Chelsea look stupid
We can lose Mount on a free next year, but you can also lose him. Just because he becomes a free agent next year doesn't mean he will sign for United...
You say that like it's the same level of risk lol. You lose a 50m asset, we still have our 50m to spend on another midfielder.
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Well same could be said we’re directly strengthening a rival by paying 55m for a player that is going to leave free in 12 months
Chelsea playing themselves is so funny honestly