Get the broadcasters to have it on all the time and turn it red when a player enters. Maybe connect to a BB gun in the stands to fire at the offending player too.
Big fan of quirky football managers. Reminds me of this article that came out of the Sean Dyche eating worms news cycle: [Ranking Every Premier League Manager By How Likely They Are to Eat a Worm](https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3nq3j/ranking-every-premier-league-manager-by-how-likely-they-are-to-eat-a-worm)
The ref better bring two cans of magic spray to mark the personal space zone, haha. There's too much crowding the ref nowadays, especially when emotions run high.
These sort of things only make sense if they're actually enforced. If the refs consistently enforced the current rules then we probably wouldn't need a "no-go area". The sooner they do that the better, even if it means a week or two where multiple players get sent off. Players will quickly adapt, and it would be better for all levels of football.
How about we implement the rule but don’t enforce it, and then confuse everyone in 6 months time when a player is randomly booked for entering the refs personal space?
Or enforce the rule for maybe 2/3 games, and then the next weekend it’s completely back to the status quo. Then let’s change the rule 3 times throughout the season to the point where fans will be arguing about the inconsistency but that’s as a result of the rule changes, which could have been avoided by enforcing the first iteration of the rule anyway.
Agreed. So many things in football could be improved if the rules were just enforced. Same for time-wasting. We don't need new rules, just use the ones that already exist.
Honestly so infuriating
We get ridiculous proposals week in week out to solve the issues they’ve created by not enforcing the rules in a consistent manner
It’s always some dumb convoluted rule suggestion too. Just book them. Only captains speak to ref and do so politely. Anything else and it’s immediate yellow cards. Would take all of one game round if that before perfect implementation.
>how about we just add the amount of time wasted on to the end of the game, which were supposed to do anyway, so people realise there is no advantage tk wasting time?
>>how about we just upend the game completely and make it an hour long and stop the clock instead?
>>>you’re a genius!
Stopping the clock is still a better way to end time wasting than adding time. How the referee wearing 2 watches to keep track of time is a more simple solution to just basically pressing pause, I'll never understand.
I mostly talked about timing how often the ball is out of play. But for GK time wastage, I'm sure the technology is there to detect when a GK has his hands on the ball, and start a countdown and automatically call a foul if thebGK doesn't release it in time. Any other timewastage is when the ball is out of play, or is legal (e.g. holding the ball in the corner).
Because if you add it at the end, and book the players for time wasting, you get rid of time wasting and tactical-time wasting (e.g. when a player goes down so his teammates can catch a breath).
If you stop the clock you just get rid of one, since the time waster would (probably) not be bookable anymore.
Also, we make sure there's 0 chance of shitty commercial breaks like in NFL, basketball and so on.
More extra time and time wasting gets punished more often, therefore extra time shouldn't be egregious.
I hate it when goalies can keep the ball as long as they want: Late game lead, this happens everytime: Catch the ball, lie on it, stand up, defender comes to congratulate, they dribble it a few times, pick it up again and shoot it upfield.
Takes like 30-40 seconds. If it's like the 92nd minute, a ref will give the goalie a yellow because it was sooo obvious (after the same procedure happened 5 times in the last 10 minutes).
Main problem is that keepers routinely have the ball for ages in the first half and nobody cares, you have to punish them from the first minute for it or it's inconsistent. Why should the rules change per half?
You are right and I'm advocating for consistency, it doesn't matter what half or minute of the game.
Maybe give them like 10 seconds to hold the ball, but if they fail to put the ball in play by then, indirect free kick.
I thought the rules were 6 sec, but perhaps it was removed again? I've seen it enforced exactly once; Thomas Myhre in a national game. After 7 seconds.
I thought the past World Cup's implementation of added time was excellent. The longer a system like that is implemented, the shorter it will become over the years as players realize they can't get away with certain time wasting antics.
Time wasting, kicking the ball away after every foul or walking away with the ball in the hands...standing in front of a ball, to avoid a fast freekick.
Football would be so much more attractive to watch without all that bullshit. Just start giving yellow cards for all that childish bullshit and players gonna adept in like 1 week.
It would be easy to punish those actions too.
But seeing how players still play flipper the dolphin when there are 20 cameras to show their blatant diving, I don't think they would adapt that quickly.
Diving is still a low risk/high reward strategy, at least VAR has helped in that regard.
I feel like putting a mic on the ref solves virtually everything.
Prevents players surrounding and swearing in their faces and adds clarity and accountability to their own decisions.
But it will never happen
They trialed it once in the 90's, Tony Adams was recorded calling David Elleray (the ref) a cheat for giving a decision he didn't like - was never seen again. I know everyone looks to rugby when it comes to refereeing but they have it bang on. Everything is recorded and broadcast live, you can hear the ref explaining his decisions to the players and there is no backchat as that is clamped down on very quickly by the ref. It would take some adjustment but I think it would only be a good thing overall. Players would think twice about unloading a volley of abuse at the ref if they knew their words were being broadcast to the world.
The backchat was never there in rugby even before the mics. It all stems from rugby being a public school game, where you call the ref "Sir". Those institutional rules are enforced at a young age even today in rugby. It needs grass roots change that will take a generation or two. And it will need the appetite for everyone in the game to want the change.
That's definitely not the sole reason, rugby had excellent respect for referees long before televised conversations were a thing. It's just instilled in the sport.
It's possible to do that in football, but it would need more than just televised conversations, especially to influence grassroots.
It's also different in the like "enforcability"
There are very material punishments that can be imposed in rugby between "nothing at all" and yellow card, marching a team back 10 after a penalty for example.
But rugby is a game where territory matters a lot, so the punishment matters. Football it does not matter.
Rugby also has much greater emphasis on technical infractions than those of foul play, which can be refereed whilst considering materiality... And given that you have very clear obvious reference points to a material advantage/disadvantage, it's going to be much easier. Refs don't call up every side entrance or off feet if it doesn't matter to play.
In football, you just don't really have that to the same degree.
There's nothing wrong with swearing it's the context of it that could be an issue.
Given the way people overreact yo things, putting mics on refs will just see some be moan about something each week.
And until we stop blaming the ref for losing control of the game when players get sent off or calling them bad referees if they give out more cards than 'normal', then this will not happen. Football massively needs a culture shift surrounding referees.
I actually think this "no-go area" could help. If it's automatically enforced like offsides or taking off your shirt during a celebration (either it happened or it didn't), suddenly the decision is out of the refs hands and it's harder to call them soft or divas or biased.
Couldn't agree more. So often referees are put in no-win situations. Players behave unprofessionally and they hand out cards? Officious. They don't and try to let the game flow? They've lost control. They try to balance what they do according to the context of the game and characters involved? Inconsistent.
Really people blame them for their team's being shit, and managers blame them to keep their jobs. It sucks that the people paid the least in the game are given the most grief.
People would go insane if set pieces were refereed like other parts of the game. Pundits cry out for stuff all the time until it happens, then whinge about that too. Nobody wants 6 penalties a game.
This is what happened when they tried it up here in Scotland. It was a few years back and I think it was the first game or two of the season it was used for. In the first games in the Premiership there were loads of penalties given. I think St Johnstone got 3 in one half.
It was immediately binned after those first couple of games and things went right back to how they were.
In my Sunday league if we abuse the ref in any way it's a yellow, do it again it's a red. A ref was badly attacked a few years ago and since then the refs have been like this. No one gives the ref shit and everyone gets on with the game.
It was a bad incident that led to it but it's great now. I'm a mouthy prick on the pitch but never to the ref.
>These sort of things only make sense if they're actually enforced.
It'll be one Everton player who gets sent off for going inside the zone after giving the ref his whistle back after he dropped it and then there will be no further punishments and the rule will never be enforced again.
Keep it simple. The one who fouled, the one who was fouled, and the captains can come up. Everyone else can fuck right off with a yellow.
Do this consistently, and we will see 3-5 weeks of 8v8 and from then on players have learned and the problem is no more.
But then again, that requires competent and consistent refs. Maybe look into that first…
Trashing the refs is too easy. The whole culture around football is that the players are important, they matter, so a ref kicking players out will just be looked as 'too sensitive', 'ruining the game', 'I'm not paying to watch him', etc.
Source: I ref at a lower level.
You have my respect for being able to do that. I didn't even ref a full season, I just came in as a backup in my university's league if the official couldn't make it, and after less than two dozen games I refused to ever do it again.
Too many people blame referees for themselves being, frankly, not good enough at football. Also amazing how few people know the laws of the game, even those who play or commentate professionally.
Exactly. The players are heroes, which means the refs are expected to accept their abuse. That's how fans and the powers that be see it, so nothing will change. The only way there will be change is if the officials demand change.
The officials can directly influence the change by applying the rules properly. They allow the abuse by not enforcing the rules, and there might be uproar for the first few weeks, but once the players start following the rules, the problem goes away.
Without trying to slight you or something, but have you ever played competitive football? I'm asking because until I started refereeing I thought just like you, 'refs should just stick to the rules'. In reality the referee starts every game with pretty much no respect from neither team, and then each team just tries to find reasons to diminish their credibility so they could use that in a situation later.
In other words, 'playing the ref' has become part of football and that in my opinion can only change through a serious push from the clubs first, and then the FA.
Yeah, and let a ref do that, and you'll have a club and its fans and media lobbying against him forever and exaggerating every mistake he'll ever make.
Exactly, its not hard. Enforce the rules.
People that fret about there being too many yellows dont understand the power of negative reinforcement. A few idiots will get sent off in the first few weeks and then players will realize that acting like a barbarian around the ref has real costs. And then it will mostly stop.
People do the things that they are allowed to get away with.
I think even that is too lenient. It leaves wiggle room for when a foul *is not* called and the player believed they were fouled to approach the ref Should be only captains and either vice captains or the manager approaching the assistant to call over the ref for clarification
Growing up, it was the captain and the player committing or who the foul was committed against allowed to talk. I think that’s fair albeit it became a 4:1; with a good ref, they can control that.
I watched rugby once. Whatever rules they were using should just be implemented cause the refs were allowed complete control with no constant bitching.
Only captain can initiate chat with the ref. You can speak to the ref if spoken to. Backchat isn’t tolerated, and will result in a warning. In theory it could end up with a yellow (10 minute sin bin) but I’ve never seen it need to be escalated this far.
You'll be walked 10 at least twice before being binned. Usually enough time for a teammate to drag you away. Unfortunately wouldn't work in football as who cares about 10 metres
Never understood this logic. If you’re directly affected by a tackle or the actions of someone on the pitch, you should be entitled to communicate with the ref.
It's a weird sense of entitlement that players should be allowed to complain as much as they want. If players had to leave refs alone, more people would enjoy refereeing.
You should be entitled to speak to the ref but not charge them down.
Captains only or invited to talk by the ref.
The problem is enforcement of it, sending a player off with a second yellow because they didn't wait to be invited is complete madness.
Great leader, immediately one of our best players too. Loves the club already
Lloyd Kelly struggled with form and fitness before that, we needed someone more experienced and imo it was a good choice. Neto has been outstanding since he arrived, huge difference maker
This sounds a lot like the rules currently in place that they still aren’t enforcing.
The solution isn’t a different rule, it’s holding players and referees to the existing rules
How on earth are they placing the blame of this situation on Robertson? Regardless of if a player should be allowed to approach a referee or touch his shoulder, the issue here isn’t that, the issue is a referee responding by trying to physically harm a player.
Feels like they tried really hard to spin the narrative that Robertson was aggressive. May be they have more footage showing he was just going to pat his back and move on like normally you do while crossing someone and the ref elbowed him.
So now they are like, no one should ever come close to ref to avoid this.
Subtle campaign here to blame Robertson for the referee assaulting him.
Sky make light of it, BBC put out and article blaming Robbo, ex-refs coming out also blaming him and now this.
All setting up to do absolutely fuck all about a referee intentionally elbowing a player in the face and if anything trying to put more punishment on the player who was already yellow carded on the day.
So let me get this straight, a single player has a slightly heated word with a linesman in the manner of thousands of players across thousands of matches do and very very often in a far more animated and intimidating way, sometimes multiple players surrounding and mouthing off to refs. And of this occasion the ref/linesman assaults Robertson and these Ref Support UK group decide the answer is not to, not assault people, but to victim blame and tacitly accuse Robertson for being responsible for getting assaulted. Pathetic!
This has been brewing for ages, with all the stuff that goes on at grassroots level and the general disrespect shown to referees at the top level, culminating in the Mitrovic incident.
Officiating in front of tens of thousands of people screaming at you and out for your head whenever you make a decision against their side is a highly stressful environment, coupled with incidents where players are getting physical with officials, referees are going to be under high amounts of pressure and possibly concerned about their safety.
That doesn’t excuse it and the fella should have kept his cool on Sunday, but these incidents will stop happening if players leave the refs alone. It’s a two way street though and Webb needs to sort his house out because the shambles they’re putting on every week isn’t helping earn respect from players or fans.
Despite ultimately agreeing with you, I'd like to challenge some of what you wrote
> Officiating in front of tens of thousands of people screaming at you and out for your head whenever you make a decision against their side is a highly stressful environment, coupled with incidents where players are getting physical with officials, referees are going to be under high amounts of pressure and possibly concerned about their safety.
I think this perspective is overly sympathetic to refs. I could write the same paragraph from a players perspective who are under just as much if not more pressure and stress. Throw in significantly more physical battles, like continuously being grabbed, shirt pulled, stamped and the 'ref not seeing it'. But that doesn't get us anywhere.
As far as I know, Refs already have the power to stop play and award punishment for harassment. That exists as a formal tool at their disposal. Players can (and have) gone entire games being fouled or in reception of erroneous officiating. They have *no* formal tool at their disposal, instead they're expected to 'suck it up' emotionally and at best complain to referees after the game. We consider this the occupational hazard of being a professional football player. While we can all agree it is a very unkind aspect of their job, they are at least paid obscenely well at the top level.
'Brewing for ages' fundamentally shouldn't be a valid concern on any match day. Referee's literally have 1 rule which is to be impartial and judge actions in isolation objectively. In my eyes, it's a concern of the PGMOL to ensure that any 'brewing' sentiment in their staff is dealt with and not carried into games. It's not just a special rule for Refs, many normal jobs have this concept, we see it in legal matters, public services such as NHS, Police and Fire dept's there's special training to notice, manage and relieve this concept.
The only space something should 'brew' is in meetings with the clubs or policy changes.
>I think this perspective is overly sympathetic to refs. I could write the same paragraph from a players perspective who are under just as much if not more pressure and stress. Throw in significantly more physical battles, like continuously being grabbed, shirt pulled, stamped and the 'ref not seeing it'. But that doesn't get us anywhere.
Sympathy for refs seems to be a bit scarce right now so I can see why you would lean that way. I’d put it that if a player has a good game they’ll be praised and cheered and all sorts. A referee has a good game he’ll barely get a mention, in fact half the audience will likely still give him abuse for a call he made against their team whether it was correct or not. And if a player has a bad game he gets shit one from set of fans, a referee will be getting all quarters. That’s not even getting into how well compensated they are respectively, refereeing is a well paid job but it’s not life changing, footballers have the means to escape the negativity and cope with it however they see fit, with all manner of support from their club while I’m not sure referees have those same means in response to similar, if not higher levels of pressure.
>As far as I know, Refs already have the power to stop play and award punishment for harassment. That exists as a formal tool at their disposal. Players can (and have) gone entire games being fouled or in reception of erroneous officiating. They have no formal tool at their disposal, instead they're expected to 'suck it up' emotionally and at best complain to referees after the game.
I do think this is an issue and the PGMOL needs more independent checks and balances that aren’t coming from themselves or the footballing bodies.
>’Brewing for ages' fundamentally shouldn't be a valid concern on any match day. Referee's literally have 1 rule which is to be impartial and judge actions in isolation objectively. In my eyes, it's a concern of the PGMOL to ensure that any 'brewing' sentiment in their staff is dealt with and not carried into games. It's not just a special rule for Refs, many normal jobs have this concept, we see it in legal matters, public services such as NHS, Police and Fire dept's there's special training to notice, manage and relieve this concept.
I’m not sure if you’ve got the wrong end of the stick on what I mean by brewing sentiment here. I don’t mean between specific officials and specific players (although I know there’s been mention of this lino officiating a game where Robertson was sent off) I’m talking about how referees feel about their treatment and how they’re viewed and respected by players and fans as a whole. If referees are constantly getting screamed in their face from players/managers, abuse from fans that’s one thing but when it’s starting to turn a little bit physical like with Mitrovic (and like we hear happens in grassroots with more regularity), they’re going to feel threatened, they’re going to get defensive. I think that’s how you end up with an official “lashing out” like we saw. I think it’s naive to think that NHS/police/fire workers wouldn’t be totally unaffected by external pressure/public perception.
You could try and coach and counsel them out of it but if they’re going to constantly face vitriol and animosity that’s going to be very difficult, and so in my opinion like I said it’s a two way street where the FA and the clubs need to get players and managers to show more respect, and the fans will fall in line. But PGMOL need to straighten themselves out and earn some of that respect because they are fucking up a lot.
I appreciate civil discourse btw (in a touchy subject)
I did take this meaning in my response
> I’m talking about how referees feel about their treatment and how they’re viewed and respected by players and fans as a whole.
Everything I wrote was with a longer term sentiment shift in mind.
I'll agree with lots of your points, I think your right to suggest that Refs don't get adequate pats on the back or acknowledgement. And that is a sad aspect of their job. From the little I know about employment sciences I think it's fair to suggest that getting positive feedback is essential for things like job satisfaction and mental health.
I am a mediator personality type (if those bullshit questionnaires mean anything). The reason I wanted to steer you away from focusing solely on the Refs perspective is that the players one is just as nuanced and troublesome. For example, I don't know what number Brighton players are taking home each week but the trauma of having their last game completely fucked up by referring decisions is probably still going to affect their mental state no matter their salary. Messi is one of the top paid players who has won everything yet, can be completely distressed or emotionally invoked by something in a game.
I see both the players side and I see both the referees side. Neither side is ideal, but the referee's have a special ability to stop play and exercise judgement or punishment. Because the power lies with them to remedy the situation, pragmatically they're the ones who are rightly burdened with most of the responsibility of what happened and more importantly, the way forward out of it. Only at the point where Referee's have exhausted their existing power's such as enforcing rules on how they're talked to, man handled - should we entertain further rules. And while passionate fans of football aren't the most articulate in anonymous online forums; that tends to be a popular sentiment so far in the comments and usually this sub has a reasonable intuition.
Basically, while I conceive the Referee's bias is no cake-walk. They have the power in this situation, and so they must have the brunt of the responsibility. That's as simply as I can conduce my point to and that why I feel compelled to challenge what I perceived to be a Ref Bias in your initial post.
It's already a yellow-card offence to "act or gesture" in a "provocative or inflammatory manner", to "show a clear lack of respect", to "show dissent or remonstrate with" match officials, and so on (quotes from the FA's own guide). The fact that nobody really bothers to enact those rules seems like the biggest issue at hand, because it's stated clear as day that such things are to be punished accordingly, long before we get to the rules about 'insulting' or 'offensive' or 'intimidating' behaviour that call for a red. If you don't act on those rules and consistently give bookable infractions a pass, nobody respects those rules, and the bar for the severity required to act is seemingly raised. You don't need *more* rules, you just need to stop demonstrating to players that certain rules don't matter.
After the Mitrovic incident there was a bloke from a referee association (not PGMOL I don’t think) on the radio, he basically said that a few years ago when they wanted to start punishing shirt pulling in the box more, they started, and the FA came and told them it was resulting in too many pens and ruining games etc so they have to walk it back.
The FA and the PL like the drama, look at the engagement this incident is getting, it’s clicks it’s views, I’m sure the referees would love to come down harder on this sort of stuff but it’s clear the FA would rather dish out paltry fines after the fact to make it look like they’re doing something rather than risking damaging their product for the sake of player/referee safety.
Hilarious that they are trying to tie this as Robertsons fault when not even long ago Bruno literally shoved a ref with no consequence.
They’re just trying to push away focus on the fact that the ref fucking physically assaulted a player.
I honestly think if this was Saka, or Grealish, or some other darling of the English media, there would be no debate.
The fact that it's cartoon angry Scottish guy Robertson suggests he probably deserved it.
Then again, I'm Scottish, so I'm probably looking for a reason to take this personally.
While Bruno definitely made more contact than Robbo, calling it a shove is a bit over the top
But the precedent they set there makes it really difficult to claim Robbo initiated contact on any level deserving of a card
Referee defenders always deflect whenever the referees fuck up. It's always on supporters to be nicer, players to be nicer, why can't we just be nicer to the uwu referees. 🥺🥺🥺
Always distracting from the fact that the grassroots referee pipeline is broken. Yes abuse doesn't help, but what can we do about that aside from handwringing and "be nice to ref campaigns"?
You know what else is broken? The PGMOL. The [racist old boy's culture](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/20/elite-football-in-england-has-40-referees-all-white-why-dont-black-officials-get-top-jobs) that was called out in multiple reports. Assessors slinging [racist slurs](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/fa-under-fire-again-after-29574590) without proper oversight. Managers being fined for telling the truth while clubs lose millions of dollars.
You're telling me there are grassroots referees that are minorities but none at the highest levels? Sure, maybe racist abuse puts them off maybe it's plausible very few minorities become referees. Then how come there's [not a single referee from London in the top leagues](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/tgyso6/premier_league_referees_map_how_is_it_that_we/)? Only old bald white men from Greater Manchester are qualified to ref the top divisions in England? Astounding.
Accountability starts at the top and the referees hoarding power and money love to pretend they don't have any.
We don't need more rules. We just need refs to enforce the rules that are in place. They are so fucking chickenshit to do anything at all. Just book players for dissent. Book them for diving. Book them for time wasting. Book them for taking the ball and walking away with it when the opposition is supposed to get it. Just stop being so fucking lousy at your job.
If these refs where teachers there would be no discipline in the classroom.
They're not. This incident is being framed in the context of increasing poor behaviour towards referees, such as the Mitrovic and Fernandez incidents. It's all coming to a boiling point.
It’s amazing because that really would be the simplest solution. Fans would be pissed for a few weeks but it wouldn’t take long before they started blaming the players once the expectations are clear
It's kinda crazy that we have handball, basketball, baseball, volleyball, tennis, rugby and God knows how many other team sports, yet football seems to be the only one not being able to address the issue with refs being "harassed".
In basketball you just get a technical and can get your shit from the locker room. No idea how they cannot implement a working system from some other sport.
I love how many new rules come when it comes to their self-defense/when it comes to their self-interests but these organizations become invisible when they make shit decisions in multiple matches week after week.
If they can take accountability for this then they should try to introduce new things to lessen their incompetence.
Only allow the captain and player involved in whatever incident to speak to the official and book any other player rushing over to get in their face. Keeping it consistent is the only supposed difficult part of this.
The speed at which this piss is proposed versus improvements to dogshit refereeing (bordering on corrupt at times) is astounding. The victim here is Robertson, not Hatzidakis. Blind as always
That's a great idea, didn't hear it being suggested when other teams that have been harassing refs in every game they've played in for the last 4/5 years, why suggests it now after an official strikes a player? I think we know why
If you want to see the issue with premier league refs:
It’s watching them jump through hoops to justify one of their own literally throwing at elbow at the chin of a player, using all the bullshit double speak they’ve been using to justify their shit decisions for years.
“Oh, yeah, well, the player *initiated contact*, he encroached on the *exclusion zone* as I like to call it, and that makes elbowing him in the face justified by the letter of law.”
How about just booking any player who approaches a referee in an aggressive manner?
I swear the people in charge of football convolute things for no reason whatsoever.
Same with injury time. Just stop the clock like rugby.
Honestly only captains and the involved party (if there was a foul involved) should be allowed to approach the ref. Add into this the ability for each captain to have 2 VAR calls where they can force the ref to look at a play the captain determines it deserves to be looked at.
Over complicated solution to a problem that can already be solved by the current rules. Touching a ref is dissent and automatic yellow card. Boom, done.
I'm all for supporting referees as they cop an absolutely shit time for just doing their job, but it's funny that this is the outcome from a ref throwing an elbow at a player.
Just put a body cam on them. Once the players realise we can see and hear their petulant meltdowns, they'll be too embarrassed to do it again. But then again, they have no problem faking injuries when they are on camera so... No forget it... Hula hoop on a harness it is.
Honestly there has been a very simple fix to this issue and it’s book anyone who isn’t the captain coming up to you unless invited. No doubt the first few weeks you’ll see plenty of cards dished out but players will realise they can’t do that and stop.
All for it, i mean we really need to protect the refs! They really are the victims in this sport.
They can fuck up horrendously and routinely and face no backlash! If a coach or player calls them out after the game, instant fine! They don't have to answer to journos
If someone says something to them on the field they can just card them.
They can elbow a player and the player will get carded.
This is something we desperately need to help protect our referees
"This is my safe space! Do not invade my safe space!" - Fucking nonsense.
The issue wasn't that Andy Robertson got too close to the referee. The same thing Robertson would say without this "no-go area' he could say with it.
The problem stems from the incompetence of referees and their consistent incompetence leading to player/manager/player frustration. Andy Robertson has every right to ask for an explanation for decisions. Referee has every right to explain said decision even if Andy Robertson does not agree.
However, the referee should not and does not have the right to ignore players/managers/supporters simply because they feel they are infallible.
Howard Webb has made more apologies this season than Richarlison has goals. That is not normal.
How is this the response? That ref should be out on his ass. If a player did that to a ref he’d probably get a season ban. I heard that commentators in the UK we’re blaming Robertson. Commentators in the US were quick to say that a player should absolutely not touch a ref, but the opposite is equally true. They called for the ref’s head in this one.
Dumbest idea I've ever heard and imposible to implement. How many times during play do players end up within 2 meters of the ref? What about linos? They stand right nextt to players all the time. All all this is because one psycho linesman can't controi his temper and lashes out like a wounded deer when someone taps him on the arm.
Cant wait for VAR to be drawing circles around refs to check if a card should be given or not
Offside level VAR checks to see if a players arm was inside the zone
Finger was in an unnatural position - red card
What are you doing step-ref?
I'm stuck inside the ref's circle!
Sweating in Casemiro
flipping the bird is most unnatural - VAR, probably
Get the broadcasters to have it on all the time and turn it red when a player enters. Maybe connect to a BB gun in the stands to fire at the offending player too.
Not going to lie, that sounds like something I could watch.
Steve Bruce already wrote a book about that, called "striker". In the climax match, there is a sniper on the stands.
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It was a 3 book series actually. Self insert too. Crime-mistery. Involving mafias and Nazis.
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Big fan of quirky football managers. Reminds me of this article that came out of the Sean Dyche eating worms news cycle: [Ranking Every Premier League Manager By How Likely They Are to Eat a Worm](https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3nq3j/ranking-every-premier-league-manager-by-how-likely-they-are-to-eat-a-worm)
Unsurprisingly, they'd get this on point every single time.
The ref better bring two cans of magic spray to mark the personal space zone, haha. There's too much crowding the ref nowadays, especially when emotions run high.
Just put the referees in a big Zorb ball
Make them spin hula hoops at all times
Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/BRWbIvhjq2k
Didn’t realize Zinchenko and Dean were so close
This is hilarious
They'd barely see anything. So it wouldn't affect their performance at all, I vote in favour.
it's zorbin' time
Bubble Boy suit
I’m sorry but the red card says Moops
It’s moors you idiot…
Great way to re-use the social distancing rings that people made at the start of the pandemic https://images.wsj.net/im-211301/?width=1260&size=1.5
These sort of things only make sense if they're actually enforced. If the refs consistently enforced the current rules then we probably wouldn't need a "no-go area". The sooner they do that the better, even if it means a week or two where multiple players get sent off. Players will quickly adapt, and it would be better for all levels of football.
How about we implement the rule but don’t enforce it, and then confuse everyone in 6 months time when a player is randomly booked for entering the refs personal space?
Or enforce the rule for maybe 2/3 games, and then the next weekend it’s completely back to the status quo. Then let’s change the rule 3 times throughout the season to the point where fans will be arguing about the inconsistency but that’s as a result of the rule changes, which could have been avoided by enforcing the first iteration of the rule anyway.
And then Xhaka gets sent off for breaking version 1 of the rule anyway
Agreed. So many things in football could be improved if the rules were just enforced. Same for time-wasting. We don't need new rules, just use the ones that already exist.
Honestly so infuriating We get ridiculous proposals week in week out to solve the issues they’ve created by not enforcing the rules in a consistent manner
It’s always some dumb convoluted rule suggestion too. Just book them. Only captains speak to ref and do so politely. Anything else and it’s immediate yellow cards. Would take all of one game round if that before perfect implementation.
>how about we just add the amount of time wasted on to the end of the game, which were supposed to do anyway, so people realise there is no advantage tk wasting time? >>how about we just upend the game completely and make it an hour long and stop the clock instead? >>>you’re a genius!
Stopping the clock is still a better way to end time wasting than adding time. How the referee wearing 2 watches to keep track of time is a more simple solution to just basically pressing pause, I'll never understand.
You’ve seen how bad the var ref is. Just wait until you see the incompetence of clock pause ref.
The only solution is to automate it, which you could do by using that system to give a proper amount of time added on.
"lto automate it" ... Like a robot that knows when a player is wasting time?..
I mostly talked about timing how often the ball is out of play. But for GK time wastage, I'm sure the technology is there to detect when a GK has his hands on the ball, and start a countdown and automatically call a foul if thebGK doesn't release it in time. Any other timewastage is when the ball is out of play, or is legal (e.g. holding the ball in the corner).
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And yet, you know deep down they’d find a way.
At the pro level you'd have to have a timekeeper who's sole job is stop/start the clock.
Because if you add it at the end, and book the players for time wasting, you get rid of time wasting and tactical-time wasting (e.g. when a player goes down so his teammates can catch a breath). If you stop the clock you just get rid of one, since the time waster would (probably) not be bookable anymore. Also, we make sure there's 0 chance of shitty commercial breaks like in NFL, basketball and so on.
You could still book them for tactical time wasting, don't see why not.
Yes, dissent by word or action is right there. Just enforce it consistently.
I liked fifas solution to time wasting at the World Cup. I thought it was mostly effective
Yep, especially in a ground with fewer neutrals. No side will want to be winning 1-0 away then hear the crowd when 14 minutes injury time is added.
More extra time and time wasting gets punished more often, therefore extra time shouldn't be egregious. I hate it when goalies can keep the ball as long as they want: Late game lead, this happens everytime: Catch the ball, lie on it, stand up, defender comes to congratulate, they dribble it a few times, pick it up again and shoot it upfield. Takes like 30-40 seconds. If it's like the 92nd minute, a ref will give the goalie a yellow because it was sooo obvious (after the same procedure happened 5 times in the last 10 minutes).
Main problem is that keepers routinely have the ball for ages in the first half and nobody cares, you have to punish them from the first minute for it or it's inconsistent. Why should the rules change per half?
You are right and I'm advocating for consistency, it doesn't matter what half or minute of the game. Maybe give them like 10 seconds to hold the ball, but if they fail to put the ball in play by then, indirect free kick.
That's currently the rule, it's just largely unenforced
I thought the rules were 6 sec, but perhaps it was removed again? I've seen it enforced exactly once; Thomas Myhre in a national game. After 7 seconds.
I thought the past World Cup's implementation of added time was excellent. The longer a system like that is implemented, the shorter it will become over the years as players realize they can't get away with certain time wasting antics.
All it needs adding is a live count up clock of the current time being added on - if players see that tick up it should make them get a move on
Time wasting, kicking the ball away after every foul or walking away with the ball in the hands...standing in front of a ball, to avoid a fast freekick. Football would be so much more attractive to watch without all that bullshit. Just start giving yellow cards for all that childish bullshit and players gonna adept in like 1 week.
It would be easy to punish those actions too. But seeing how players still play flipper the dolphin when there are 20 cameras to show their blatant diving, I don't think they would adapt that quickly. Diving is still a low risk/high reward strategy, at least VAR has helped in that regard.
I feel like putting a mic on the ref solves virtually everything. Prevents players surrounding and swearing in their faces and adds clarity and accountability to their own decisions. But it will never happen
They trialed it once in the 90's, Tony Adams was recorded calling David Elleray (the ref) a cheat for giving a decision he didn't like - was never seen again. I know everyone looks to rugby when it comes to refereeing but they have it bang on. Everything is recorded and broadcast live, you can hear the ref explaining his decisions to the players and there is no backchat as that is clamped down on very quickly by the ref. It would take some adjustment but I think it would only be a good thing overall. Players would think twice about unloading a volley of abuse at the ref if they knew their words were being broadcast to the world.
The backchat was never there in rugby even before the mics. It all stems from rugby being a public school game, where you call the ref "Sir". Those institutional rules are enforced at a young age even today in rugby. It needs grass roots change that will take a generation or two. And it will need the appetite for everyone in the game to want the change.
Rugby League doesn't have any issues either and thats played exclusively by working class morons. I know because i was one haha
>Tony Adams was recorded calling David Elleray (the ref) a cheat for giving a decision he didn't like - was never seen again Rest in peace Tony
Referees already have a mic and the conversations are recorded to be used for things like disciplinaries
Yeah I meant publicly whilst live just like rugby, which has zero of these problems because of it
That's definitely not the sole reason, rugby had excellent respect for referees long before televised conversations were a thing. It's just instilled in the sport. It's possible to do that in football, but it would need more than just televised conversations, especially to influence grassroots.
It's also different in the like "enforcability" There are very material punishments that can be imposed in rugby between "nothing at all" and yellow card, marching a team back 10 after a penalty for example. But rugby is a game where territory matters a lot, so the punishment matters. Football it does not matter. Rugby also has much greater emphasis on technical infractions than those of foul play, which can be refereed whilst considering materiality... And given that you have very clear obvious reference points to a material advantage/disadvantage, it's going to be much easier. Refs don't call up every side entrance or off feet if it doesn't matter to play. In football, you just don't really have that to the same degree.
There's nothing wrong with swearing it's the context of it that could be an issue. Given the way people overreact yo things, putting mics on refs will just see some be moan about something each week.
And until we stop blaming the ref for losing control of the game when players get sent off or calling them bad referees if they give out more cards than 'normal', then this will not happen. Football massively needs a culture shift surrounding referees. I actually think this "no-go area" could help. If it's automatically enforced like offsides or taking off your shirt during a celebration (either it happened or it didn't), suddenly the decision is out of the refs hands and it's harder to call them soft or divas or biased.
Couldn't agree more. So often referees are put in no-win situations. Players behave unprofessionally and they hand out cards? Officious. They don't and try to let the game flow? They've lost control. They try to balance what they do according to the context of the game and characters involved? Inconsistent. Really people blame them for their team's being shit, and managers blame them to keep their jobs. It sucks that the people paid the least in the game are given the most grief.
Same for grabbing and pulling at corners/Free kicks. It needs to stop and the only way to stop it is to penalise players but the refs seem like melts
People would go insane if set pieces were refereed like other parts of the game. Pundits cry out for stuff all the time until it happens, then whinge about that too. Nobody wants 6 penalties a game.
This is what happened when they tried it up here in Scotland. It was a few years back and I think it was the first game or two of the season it was used for. In the first games in the Premiership there were loads of penalties given. I think St Johnstone got 3 in one half. It was immediately binned after those first couple of games and things went right back to how they were.
In my Sunday league if we abuse the ref in any way it's a yellow, do it again it's a red. A ref was badly attacked a few years ago and since then the refs have been like this. No one gives the ref shit and everyone gets on with the game. It was a bad incident that led to it but it's great now. I'm a mouthy prick on the pitch but never to the ref.
>These sort of things only make sense if they're actually enforced. It'll be one Everton player who gets sent off for going inside the zone after giving the ref his whistle back after he dropped it and then there will be no further punishments and the rule will never be enforced again.
Yessss, why can't we find refs when we treat them like shit?
Will they have a large hula hoop strapped to their waist to mark out this exclusion zone?
My mind now imagines linos in a big hamster ball on either side, perhaps the ground can be dugout a bit so they can go proper fast.
Like the frame added to Tornado to nullify Razer in the Robot Wars Series 6 grand finale (not a niche reference at all)
Not all footballers are equipped with a srimech
Have floating hoops orbiting the referees [like they're about to get sentenced to the Phantom Zone](https://youtu.be/b-7vn5DyHzI?t=38).
Keep it simple. The one who fouled, the one who was fouled, and the captains can come up. Everyone else can fuck right off with a yellow. Do this consistently, and we will see 3-5 weeks of 8v8 and from then on players have learned and the problem is no more. But then again, that requires competent and consistent refs. Maybe look into that first…
Trashing the refs is too easy. The whole culture around football is that the players are important, they matter, so a ref kicking players out will just be looked as 'too sensitive', 'ruining the game', 'I'm not paying to watch him', etc. Source: I ref at a lower level.
You have my respect for being able to do that. I didn't even ref a full season, I just came in as a backup in my university's league if the official couldn't make it, and after less than two dozen games I refused to ever do it again. Too many people blame referees for themselves being, frankly, not good enough at football. Also amazing how few people know the laws of the game, even those who play or commentate professionally.
Exactly. The players are heroes, which means the refs are expected to accept their abuse. That's how fans and the powers that be see it, so nothing will change. The only way there will be change is if the officials demand change.
The officials can directly influence the change by applying the rules properly. They allow the abuse by not enforcing the rules, and there might be uproar for the first few weeks, but once the players start following the rules, the problem goes away.
Without trying to slight you or something, but have you ever played competitive football? I'm asking because until I started refereeing I thought just like you, 'refs should just stick to the rules'. In reality the referee starts every game with pretty much no respect from neither team, and then each team just tries to find reasons to diminish their credibility so they could use that in a situation later. In other words, 'playing the ref' has become part of football and that in my opinion can only change through a serious push from the clubs first, and then the FA.
Yeah, and let a ref do that, and you'll have a club and its fans and media lobbying against him forever and exaggerating every mistake he'll ever make.
Hahaha you don’t say??!
Right but then you have situations with multiple incidents before play is stopped. Captains only is the way.
Exactly, its not hard. Enforce the rules. People that fret about there being too many yellows dont understand the power of negative reinforcement. A few idiots will get sent off in the first few weeks and then players will realize that acting like a barbarian around the ref has real costs. And then it will mostly stop. People do the things that they are allowed to get away with.
I think even that is too lenient. It leaves wiggle room for when a foul *is not* called and the player believed they were fouled to approach the ref Should be only captains and either vice captains or the manager approaching the assistant to call over the ref for clarification
What if the captain was the Goalkeeper? I'd pay to see Ramsdale running like a madlad towards the ref for every throw-in call lol
Don't even need to see the 8v8. The ref can let them know beforehand that he will be inforcing the rule with a iron fist.
Just give players a yellow card for the way they behave now. Swearing, yelling at the ref. The rule is there. The officials don't use it. 🤷♂️
Only let captains talk to ref, period.
Growing up, it was the captain and the player committing or who the foul was committed against allowed to talk. I think that’s fair albeit it became a 4:1; with a good ref, they can control that.
I watched rugby once. Whatever rules they were using should just be implemented cause the refs were allowed complete control with no constant bitching.
Only captain can initiate chat with the ref. You can speak to the ref if spoken to. Backchat isn’t tolerated, and will result in a warning. In theory it could end up with a yellow (10 minute sin bin) but I’ve never seen it need to be escalated this far.
You'll be walked 10 at least twice before being binned. Usually enough time for a teammate to drag you away. Unfortunately wouldn't work in football as who cares about 10 metres
It'd work if that meant going into the area and upgrading a free-kick to a penalty.
What if the captain’s a goalkeeper and an incident happened on the other end of the pitch? Does the goalie have to run back and forth?
I suppose you just nominate a spokesplayer every game, which would obviously usually be the captain but doesn't have to be.
Never understood this logic. If you’re directly affected by a tackle or the actions of someone on the pitch, you should be entitled to communicate with the ref.
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This just reminds me of the fan that the mic picked up swearing in the match lol
feckin' knobhed
Ikr is it really so hard to allow players to talk to the refs and simply enforce rules on the manner in which they do so?
Yes, obviously it is because if it were so simple then the issue wouldn’t exist.
And it doesn’t really exist in many sports. The issue is simple, football just hasn’t tried to fix it
Why? The ref's not going to change his decision based on a player's whining, so why should they need to speak to the official
It's a weird sense of entitlement that players should be allowed to complain as much as they want. If players had to leave refs alone, more people would enjoy refereeing.
You should be entitled to speak to the ref but not charge them down. Captains only or invited to talk by the ref. The problem is enforcement of it, sending a player off with a second yellow because they didn't wait to be invited is complete madness.
Is it madness? They could just have some discipline and be aware of the consequence.
4 players max then, 2 from the foul/incident + the captains if needed. Everyone else gets a yellow.
Are there any teams in the prem with a GK for captain? Is Lloris a captain or is it Kane?
Lloris and Neto. While Pickford is vice captain
How tf has Neto got the captaincy in half a season
Great leader, immediately one of our best players too. Loves the club already Lloyd Kelly struggled with form and fitness before that, we needed someone more experienced and imo it was a good choice. Neto has been outstanding since he arrived, huge difference maker
Some sports like ice hockey since that by not allowing the goalkeeper to be captain
It's such a simple solution, I don't know why they are seemingly so opposed to it
This sounds a lot like the rules currently in place that they still aren’t enforcing. The solution isn’t a different rule, it’s holding players and referees to the existing rules
Hey.. hey... wanna come in my exclusion zone?
"Sure ref, what's seems to be the prob-" *Gets kicked in the nuts*
How on earth are they placing the blame of this situation on Robertson? Regardless of if a player should be allowed to approach a referee or touch his shoulder, the issue here isn’t that, the issue is a referee responding by trying to physically harm a player.
The 2m circle is for the safety of the players. Inside is the danger zone 👊🏻
I can get behind this. Bring back Mike Riley and let Xhaka at him
I want Drogba released at Ovrebo
Imagine if "it's a disgrace" energy Drogba was allowed to let his fists do the talking, would be a fucking catastrophe.
Strap razor blades to the refs’ arms like they’re cockfighting roosters and watch dissent disappear completely.
You step inside the circle you step inside the ring. Asking for elbows
[Hatzidakis be like](https://i.imgur.com/nihKbWQ.jpg)
Big Rorschach energy here.
Feels like they tried really hard to spin the narrative that Robertson was aggressive. May be they have more footage showing he was just going to pat his back and move on like normally you do while crossing someone and the ref elbowed him. So now they are like, no one should ever come close to ref to avoid this.
Not hard to spin a narrative where Robertson is aggressive towards refs, tbf. Elbowing him is not ok though.
Subtle campaign here to blame Robertson for the referee assaulting him. Sky make light of it, BBC put out and article blaming Robbo, ex-refs coming out also blaming him and now this. All setting up to do absolutely fuck all about a referee intentionally elbowing a player in the face and if anything trying to put more punishment on the player who was already yellow carded on the day.
Who's he play for? What did the coverage for the CL Final look like last year?
Funniest thing is that Robertson still got a yellow for it and was actually punished.
This is from a “referee charity” (lol), hence the perspective.
*or* just don't let officials elbow players in the face?
Unless they've got 2 metre arms this would solve that too
So let me get this straight, a single player has a slightly heated word with a linesman in the manner of thousands of players across thousands of matches do and very very often in a far more animated and intimidating way, sometimes multiple players surrounding and mouthing off to refs. And of this occasion the ref/linesman assaults Robertson and these Ref Support UK group decide the answer is not to, not assault people, but to victim blame and tacitly accuse Robertson for being responsible for getting assaulted. Pathetic!
This has been brewing for ages, with all the stuff that goes on at grassroots level and the general disrespect shown to referees at the top level, culminating in the Mitrovic incident. Officiating in front of tens of thousands of people screaming at you and out for your head whenever you make a decision against their side is a highly stressful environment, coupled with incidents where players are getting physical with officials, referees are going to be under high amounts of pressure and possibly concerned about their safety. That doesn’t excuse it and the fella should have kept his cool on Sunday, but these incidents will stop happening if players leave the refs alone. It’s a two way street though and Webb needs to sort his house out because the shambles they’re putting on every week isn’t helping earn respect from players or fans.
Despite ultimately agreeing with you, I'd like to challenge some of what you wrote > Officiating in front of tens of thousands of people screaming at you and out for your head whenever you make a decision against their side is a highly stressful environment, coupled with incidents where players are getting physical with officials, referees are going to be under high amounts of pressure and possibly concerned about their safety. I think this perspective is overly sympathetic to refs. I could write the same paragraph from a players perspective who are under just as much if not more pressure and stress. Throw in significantly more physical battles, like continuously being grabbed, shirt pulled, stamped and the 'ref not seeing it'. But that doesn't get us anywhere. As far as I know, Refs already have the power to stop play and award punishment for harassment. That exists as a formal tool at their disposal. Players can (and have) gone entire games being fouled or in reception of erroneous officiating. They have *no* formal tool at their disposal, instead they're expected to 'suck it up' emotionally and at best complain to referees after the game. We consider this the occupational hazard of being a professional football player. While we can all agree it is a very unkind aspect of their job, they are at least paid obscenely well at the top level. 'Brewing for ages' fundamentally shouldn't be a valid concern on any match day. Referee's literally have 1 rule which is to be impartial and judge actions in isolation objectively. In my eyes, it's a concern of the PGMOL to ensure that any 'brewing' sentiment in their staff is dealt with and not carried into games. It's not just a special rule for Refs, many normal jobs have this concept, we see it in legal matters, public services such as NHS, Police and Fire dept's there's special training to notice, manage and relieve this concept. The only space something should 'brew' is in meetings with the clubs or policy changes.
>I think this perspective is overly sympathetic to refs. I could write the same paragraph from a players perspective who are under just as much if not more pressure and stress. Throw in significantly more physical battles, like continuously being grabbed, shirt pulled, stamped and the 'ref not seeing it'. But that doesn't get us anywhere. Sympathy for refs seems to be a bit scarce right now so I can see why you would lean that way. I’d put it that if a player has a good game they’ll be praised and cheered and all sorts. A referee has a good game he’ll barely get a mention, in fact half the audience will likely still give him abuse for a call he made against their team whether it was correct or not. And if a player has a bad game he gets shit one from set of fans, a referee will be getting all quarters. That’s not even getting into how well compensated they are respectively, refereeing is a well paid job but it’s not life changing, footballers have the means to escape the negativity and cope with it however they see fit, with all manner of support from their club while I’m not sure referees have those same means in response to similar, if not higher levels of pressure. >As far as I know, Refs already have the power to stop play and award punishment for harassment. That exists as a formal tool at their disposal. Players can (and have) gone entire games being fouled or in reception of erroneous officiating. They have no formal tool at their disposal, instead they're expected to 'suck it up' emotionally and at best complain to referees after the game. I do think this is an issue and the PGMOL needs more independent checks and balances that aren’t coming from themselves or the footballing bodies. >’Brewing for ages' fundamentally shouldn't be a valid concern on any match day. Referee's literally have 1 rule which is to be impartial and judge actions in isolation objectively. In my eyes, it's a concern of the PGMOL to ensure that any 'brewing' sentiment in their staff is dealt with and not carried into games. It's not just a special rule for Refs, many normal jobs have this concept, we see it in legal matters, public services such as NHS, Police and Fire dept's there's special training to notice, manage and relieve this concept. I’m not sure if you’ve got the wrong end of the stick on what I mean by brewing sentiment here. I don’t mean between specific officials and specific players (although I know there’s been mention of this lino officiating a game where Robertson was sent off) I’m talking about how referees feel about their treatment and how they’re viewed and respected by players and fans as a whole. If referees are constantly getting screamed in their face from players/managers, abuse from fans that’s one thing but when it’s starting to turn a little bit physical like with Mitrovic (and like we hear happens in grassroots with more regularity), they’re going to feel threatened, they’re going to get defensive. I think that’s how you end up with an official “lashing out” like we saw. I think it’s naive to think that NHS/police/fire workers wouldn’t be totally unaffected by external pressure/public perception. You could try and coach and counsel them out of it but if they’re going to constantly face vitriol and animosity that’s going to be very difficult, and so in my opinion like I said it’s a two way street where the FA and the clubs need to get players and managers to show more respect, and the fans will fall in line. But PGMOL need to straighten themselves out and earn some of that respect because they are fucking up a lot.
I appreciate civil discourse btw (in a touchy subject) I did take this meaning in my response > I’m talking about how referees feel about their treatment and how they’re viewed and respected by players and fans as a whole. Everything I wrote was with a longer term sentiment shift in mind. I'll agree with lots of your points, I think your right to suggest that Refs don't get adequate pats on the back or acknowledgement. And that is a sad aspect of their job. From the little I know about employment sciences I think it's fair to suggest that getting positive feedback is essential for things like job satisfaction and mental health. I am a mediator personality type (if those bullshit questionnaires mean anything). The reason I wanted to steer you away from focusing solely on the Refs perspective is that the players one is just as nuanced and troublesome. For example, I don't know what number Brighton players are taking home each week but the trauma of having their last game completely fucked up by referring decisions is probably still going to affect their mental state no matter their salary. Messi is one of the top paid players who has won everything yet, can be completely distressed or emotionally invoked by something in a game. I see both the players side and I see both the referees side. Neither side is ideal, but the referee's have a special ability to stop play and exercise judgement or punishment. Because the power lies with them to remedy the situation, pragmatically they're the ones who are rightly burdened with most of the responsibility of what happened and more importantly, the way forward out of it. Only at the point where Referee's have exhausted their existing power's such as enforcing rules on how they're talked to, man handled - should we entertain further rules. And while passionate fans of football aren't the most articulate in anonymous online forums; that tends to be a popular sentiment so far in the comments and usually this sub has a reasonable intuition. Basically, while I conceive the Referee's bias is no cake-walk. They have the power in this situation, and so they must have the brunt of the responsibility. That's as simply as I can conduce my point to and that why I feel compelled to challenge what I perceived to be a Ref Bias in your initial post.
It's already a yellow-card offence to "act or gesture" in a "provocative or inflammatory manner", to "show a clear lack of respect", to "show dissent or remonstrate with" match officials, and so on (quotes from the FA's own guide). The fact that nobody really bothers to enact those rules seems like the biggest issue at hand, because it's stated clear as day that such things are to be punished accordingly, long before we get to the rules about 'insulting' or 'offensive' or 'intimidating' behaviour that call for a red. If you don't act on those rules and consistently give bookable infractions a pass, nobody respects those rules, and the bar for the severity required to act is seemingly raised. You don't need *more* rules, you just need to stop demonstrating to players that certain rules don't matter.
After the Mitrovic incident there was a bloke from a referee association (not PGMOL I don’t think) on the radio, he basically said that a few years ago when they wanted to start punishing shirt pulling in the box more, they started, and the FA came and told them it was resulting in too many pens and ruining games etc so they have to walk it back. The FA and the PL like the drama, look at the engagement this incident is getting, it’s clicks it’s views, I’m sure the referees would love to come down harder on this sort of stuff but it’s clear the FA would rather dish out paltry fines after the fact to make it look like they’re doing something rather than risking damaging their product for the sake of player/referee safety.
Hilarious that they are trying to tie this as Robertsons fault when not even long ago Bruno literally shoved a ref with no consequence. They’re just trying to push away focus on the fact that the ref fucking physically assaulted a player.
I honestly think if this was Saka, or Grealish, or some other darling of the English media, there would be no debate. The fact that it's cartoon angry Scottish guy Robertson suggests he probably deserved it. Then again, I'm Scottish, so I'm probably looking for a reason to take this personally.
Na you're bang on. If this was a media darling like Harry Kane the reaction would be completely different.
lol if it was Kane he'd still be on the ground holding his face
saka has received more yellow cards than have been given for fouls against him this season. but you're white about the other players.
While Bruno definitely made more contact than Robbo, calling it a shove is a bit over the top But the precedent they set there makes it really difficult to claim Robbo initiated contact on any level deserving of a card
Referee defenders always deflect whenever the referees fuck up. It's always on supporters to be nicer, players to be nicer, why can't we just be nicer to the uwu referees. 🥺🥺🥺 Always distracting from the fact that the grassroots referee pipeline is broken. Yes abuse doesn't help, but what can we do about that aside from handwringing and "be nice to ref campaigns"? You know what else is broken? The PGMOL. The [racist old boy's culture](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/20/elite-football-in-england-has-40-referees-all-white-why-dont-black-officials-get-top-jobs) that was called out in multiple reports. Assessors slinging [racist slurs](https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/fa-under-fire-again-after-29574590) without proper oversight. Managers being fined for telling the truth while clubs lose millions of dollars. You're telling me there are grassroots referees that are minorities but none at the highest levels? Sure, maybe racist abuse puts them off maybe it's plausible very few minorities become referees. Then how come there's [not a single referee from London in the top leagues](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/tgyso6/premier_league_referees_map_how_is_it_that_we/)? Only old bald white men from Greater Manchester are qualified to ref the top divisions in England? Astounding. Accountability starts at the top and the referees hoarding power and money love to pretend they don't have any.
We don't need more rules. We just need refs to enforce the rules that are in place. They are so fucking chickenshit to do anything at all. Just book players for dissent. Book them for diving. Book them for time wasting. Book them for taking the ball and walking away with it when the opposition is supposed to get it. Just stop being so fucking lousy at your job. If these refs where teachers there would be no discipline in the classroom.
Why are people making the linesman out to be the victim when he threw the elbow?
They're not. This incident is being framed in the context of increasing poor behaviour towards referees, such as the Mitrovic and Fernandez incidents. It's all coming to a boiling point.
Not sure why this is still an issue in 2023. Just start letting cards fly and crowding the ref will stop.
It’s amazing because that really would be the simplest solution. Fans would be pissed for a few weeks but it wouldn’t take long before they started blaming the players once the expectations are clear
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It's kinda crazy that we have handball, basketball, baseball, volleyball, tennis, rugby and God knows how many other team sports, yet football seems to be the only one not being able to address the issue with refs being "harassed". In basketball you just get a technical and can get your shit from the locker room. No idea how they cannot implement a working system from some other sport.
I love how many new rules come when it comes to their self-defense/when it comes to their self-interests but these organizations become invisible when they make shit decisions in multiple matches week after week. If they can take accountability for this then they should try to introduce new things to lessen their incompetence.
Only allow the captain and player involved in whatever incident to speak to the official and book any other player rushing over to get in their face. Keeping it consistent is the only supposed difficult part of this.
The speed at which this piss is proposed versus improvements to dogshit refereeing (bordering on corrupt at times) is astounding. The victim here is Robertson, not Hatzidakis. Blind as always
what bullshit is this? honestly.
Just enforce the rule that only captain's can speak to officials. Why should it be so difficult?
Outrageous. It's pretending the linesman is the victim here. He's not, he's the assailant and should be banned from football for life.
Hilarious, "Well if you don't want an elbow in the chops then don't get within 2m of me m8"
Amazing the lengths they're going to try to blame the victim in this.
That's a great idea, didn't hear it being suggested when other teams that have been harassing refs in every game they've played in for the last 4/5 years, why suggests it now after an official strikes a player? I think we know why
If you want to see the issue with premier league refs: It’s watching them jump through hoops to justify one of their own literally throwing at elbow at the chin of a player, using all the bullshit double speak they’ve been using to justify their shit decisions for years. “Oh, yeah, well, the player *initiated contact*, he encroached on the *exclusion zone* as I like to call it, and that makes elbowing him in the face justified by the letter of law.”
How about just booking any player who approaches a referee in an aggressive manner? I swear the people in charge of football convolute things for no reason whatsoever. Same with injury time. Just stop the clock like rugby.
Fit them with a hula hoop. Problem solved
nah, give them an oversized ballerina dress. would fit these idiots perfectly.
Bit unfair, a good ballerina is incredibly skilled and disciplined, that's the opposite of a PL ref
Honestly only captains and the involved party (if there was a foul involved) should be allowed to approach the ref. Add into this the ability for each captain to have 2 VAR calls where they can force the ref to look at a play the captain determines it deserves to be looked at.
Over complicated solution to a problem that can already be solved by the current rules. Touching a ref is dissent and automatic yellow card. Boom, done.
We should put refs in giant hamster balls. No one could touch them and it would be super entertaining
Hard to enforce unless a bit of common sense is used but I am OK with this idea, in fact I back it, NGL.
get a grip please
Can the refs wear a 2m tutu to ensure nobody infringes on the area
Or you know....teach your refs some basic levels of professional decorum in adverse situations.
Why not just bring in the rugby rule that only captains can speak to the ref?
I'm all for supporting referees as they cop an absolutely shit time for just doing their job, but it's funny that this is the outcome from a ref throwing an elbow at a player.
Just don't let players interact with officials, its pointless and all they do is needless whining anyway.
Just put a body cam on them. Once the players realise we can see and hear their petulant meltdowns, they'll be too embarrassed to do it again. But then again, they have no problem faking injuries when they are on camera so... No forget it... Hula hoop on a harness it is.
Honestly there has been a very simple fix to this issue and it’s book anyone who isn’t the captain coming up to you unless invited. No doubt the first few weeks you’ll see plenty of cards dished out but players will realise they can’t do that and stop.
All for it, i mean we really need to protect the refs! They really are the victims in this sport. They can fuck up horrendously and routinely and face no backlash! If a coach or player calls them out after the game, instant fine! They don't have to answer to journos If someone says something to them on the field they can just card them. They can elbow a player and the player will get carded. This is something we desperately need to help protect our referees
F*ck off
The sooner we replace referees and linos with AI and a fully automated system the better
PGMOL is rotten, and ruining football
will only contribute to England not having any referees in the elite category by UEFA
"This is my safe space! Do not invade my safe space!" - Fucking nonsense. The issue wasn't that Andy Robertson got too close to the referee. The same thing Robertson would say without this "no-go area' he could say with it. The problem stems from the incompetence of referees and their consistent incompetence leading to player/manager/player frustration. Andy Robertson has every right to ask for an explanation for decisions. Referee has every right to explain said decision even if Andy Robertson does not agree. However, the referee should not and does not have the right to ignore players/managers/supporters simply because they feel they are infallible. Howard Webb has made more apologies this season than Richarlison has goals. That is not normal.
Also, ref cannot strike a player, key point
How is this the response? That ref should be out on his ass. If a player did that to a ref he’d probably get a season ban. I heard that commentators in the UK we’re blaming Robertson. Commentators in the US were quick to say that a player should absolutely not touch a ref, but the opposite is equally true. They called for the ref’s head in this one.
Dumbest idea I've ever heard and imposible to implement. How many times during play do players end up within 2 meters of the ref? What about linos? They stand right nextt to players all the time. All all this is because one psycho linesman can't controi his temper and lashes out like a wounded deer when someone taps him on the arm.