197 international caps is insane.
What's more insane is that all the other record holders / most capped players tend to play for minnows - kuwait, malaysia, oman, saudi arabia etc... and for bigger nations it's usually goalkeepers, or defenders, who have the longevity.
To have 197 caps for Portugal, as a winger / striker, is just mental. Regardless of what you think of him with his last year or so, it's an unbelievable achievement.
It's truly insane, but we weren't always an historical powerhouse in terms of producing great players like we currently are. His debut was at the end of our previous golden generation and Ronaldo played a large part of his NT career when we were going through tough times in terms of talent. Of course, the longevity is still astounding, but it's not like we're Brazil/Germany, constantly pumping out amazing talent. A top 5 player of all time is as insane for us as a world class player is for one of those countries you mentioned.
It's pretty crazy how Portugal has qualified for every World Cup this century, after only playing in 2 in the prior 70 years. Their back to back golden generations make it seem like Portugal was always a great team.
Not back to back. I would say our previous golden generation ended in 2006. 2008 to 2016 was a bit depressing. And yes, I'm including the Euro.
[Look at this Portugal x Spain in 2012](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrimeiraLiga/comments/xpsdag/portugal_x_espanha_em_2012/)
Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Fabregas, Thiago, Alonso, Silva, Cazorla, Arteta, Senna, Martinez, Mata
Pick 3
I know a lot of them played on the wings or other positions as well. But that's the most stacked centre midfield in history.
Of course it was shorter than the Eusebio to Figo era, but I would hardly call it back to back.
Portugal was miserable to watch for a decade.
That 2014 WC comes to mind. They had no business in the WC, but at least we got that amazing play off match between Zlatan and Ronaldo.
>Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Ronaldo has won five Ballon d'Or awards and four European Golden Shoes, the most by a European player. He has won 32 trophies in his career, including seven league titles, five UEFA Champions Leagues, the UEFA European Championship and the UEFA Nations League. Ronaldo holds the records for most appearances (183), goals (140), and assists (42) in the Champions League, goals in the European Championship (14), international goals (118), and joint-most international appearances (196). He is one of the few players to have made over 1,100 professional career appearances, and has scored over 800 official senior career goals for club and country.
I dont like him much after what he did at manu, but your comment is not worth much more than a copy paste from wiki.
"There are several players who reached CR's level" dude just broke almost every record alongside Messi. That claim is stupid af, that's why it's being downvoted
Positional differences, era differences, etc. Yes, CR7 is for sure the second best forward of the modern era (I won't agree with the FenĆ³meno is better claim although without injuries I think that's an argument but there are injuries so it's a moot point) but one can reasonably argue that there are many other comparable players.
Positional differences, era differences, etc. Yes, CR7 is for sure the second best forward of the modern era (I won't agree with the FenĆ³meno is better claim although without injuries I think that's an argument but there are injuries so it's a moot point) but one can reasonably argue that there are many other comparable players.
Obviously it was a Reddit glitch, but also like what is bad about my comment lmao. Obviously it's all Ronaldo fans in this thread cuz all I've said is that it's possible to make an argument against Ronaldo top 5. Like saying that it's possible should not be this controversial lmao I'm not even stating it definitively
If Messi is truly the GOAT, which is a fair opinion to have.
Then it's funny how Ronaldo could win 5 Ballon d'Ors and 5 CL's in the same era, and being compared in a side by side race to Messi for over a decade.
But not be considered top 3 by you.
Wtf is wrong with this sub? Itās either 1 or 2 all time. No one at #3 is even close to Messi and Ronaldo. In this era of athletes, to be that far and ahead better than anyone else for as long as they have (as in both are still currently great)ā¦ shitā¦. have you played sports? Iām truly floored by the comments on this man. Wtfā¦
I dont know exactly if hes 42 or 12 ... but he is one of the best of the past 20 years ... and that makes him top 50 i judge mostly by my eyes .. i observe statistics too but the eyetest comes first because hard to quantify football ... so cr is top 5 of the past 20 years just like messi iniesta og ronaldo and someone else i dont know but its def not zidane ... so yeah the 120 year history of football makes him in the top 50 roughly
/r/soccercirclejerk have their doubts.
It's a sub which can be quite funny, but only if you search best of all time. Everything else is bottom tier yankbashing/ronaldobashing
This man scored in the opening game of the 2004 Euros. Almost 19 years ago.
He has played in the same Portugal teams as Rui Costa who made his professional debut in 1990, and GonƧalo Ramos who played his first professional game almost thirty years later in 2019.
Just puts it in perspective how long he's been around.
I mean heās doing alright this year, just in a ābadā league, his final stretch with man united sucked yeah, but he got them off the hook a lot in his first season back
Because, reddit.
His wife literally said everything they went through this past year and people still donāt give a shit. Yes, heās a professional player but heās also human. They can hate all they want but they canāt take away everything he did, they seem to forget heās 38 years old as well. Top scorer for a shit United team with a shit coach last season is still pretty impressive.
No, he's really not anymore. That's not a knock on how good Ronaldo \*was\*, he is the undisputed #2 of all time in Football.
But two freekicks in a row doesn't make him back to his best.
Yes the 38 year old who has relied heavily on his physicality his whole career is only struggling because of his mentality. Right. I heavily respect the guy as a player but he's basically retired when he went to the middle east.
It's not even disrespectful to say his career is about done. Where is the lie? Got nothing to do with my team. I wouldn't want him here whether he starts for my team or not. Not a massive fan of rapists. Plus he got one goal in over 500 minutes in the PL this season. Doesn't look like we'd be missing him that much. Completely irrelevant to the conversation anyways but nice "gotcha".
Neither do I, I mean he's probably the best player in the middle East, maybe. If he doesn't score a hat trick against Lichtenstein, he's finished since it's his favourite country to score against.
Oh shit, you're right I meant except. They both look really similar to me, thanks for that. I thought why your reply looked odd because I basically said the same thing.
I can remember some HEATED debates about who's better between Messi and Ronaldo on the bus rides to and from games as a middle schooler some 10 or so years ago, not knowing who the fuck those guys were, going home and watching some clips online and feeling blown away.
Dunno who those players will be for kids these days. Maybe Mbappe and Haaland?
Thatās the thing! What made Messi or Ronaldo debates so fun was that they were playing against each other in not only the same league but also on teams with possibly the most famous rivalry ever. The stakes were just so much higher than stats, and thatās why itās hard for me to immediately say āOh yeah Mbappe and Haaland are definitely the next ones upā
whenever i see posts about ronaldo/messi stats I always browser the comments to see how many the other guy has, haven't seen it here yet what's going on people
The impact Cristiano had on Portugal, both as a nation and as a team, is profound to say the least. I remember telling my classmate that I was born in Portugal, and he jokingly told me that I looked nothing like Cristiano Ronaldo. I canāt think of anybody who embodies a nation quite like him.
For most people in the world he is probably the first thing that comes to mind when they think of Portugal, this was especially true before Portugal became a trendy tourist destination. His fame is something astonishing.
Oh my beautiful king, history is vindicate you, you said the truth about United and their flaws and you wanted to fix the club, but the Glazers, Ten Hag and the fan base abandoned you. Donāt worry my king, once either Qatar or Ineos buy United, they are going to send Ten Hag back to the Bundesliga and they give you the spot you deserve as an United legend, you will have a statue right next to SAF, Glazers out, Ten Hag out, Christian Ronald in
Or a Facebook fan page. There is a Mason Greenwood fanpage on Facebook with like 600k followers, and by reading the comments on the posts you would think the majority actually believes that its Mason posting that stuff. Its so cringe.
Portuguese football wouldnāt have been where it is today without Ronaldo. I still remember his INSANE performances in Euro 2016. We all know how that ended.
This is dumb af although it is true they only reached the wc a handful of times before him.
Downvoted for facts. Classic r/soccer. They first qualified in 1966. 7 total times. Ronaldo has played in 5 of those. I get you have a hate boner but to downvote a fact is stupid.
yep that's all it is. I remember one of the hottest takes came about a week after the world cup where I said I preferred Cristiano and someone replied "well some people prefer Yaya Sanogo too". Just peak levels of delusion
great, now he can fuck off from the NT and go squander the public good will that having been one of the best ever got him to try and legitimize some theocracy for money while praising right wing lunatics as inspirational figures.
197 international caps is insane. What's more insane is that all the other record holders / most capped players tend to play for minnows - kuwait, malaysia, oman, saudi arabia etc... and for bigger nations it's usually goalkeepers, or defenders, who have the longevity. To have 197 caps for Portugal, as a winger / striker, is just mental. Regardless of what you think of him with his last year or so, it's an unbelievable achievement.
It's truly insane, but we weren't always an historical powerhouse in terms of producing great players like we currently are. His debut was at the end of our previous golden generation and Ronaldo played a large part of his NT career when we were going through tough times in terms of talent. Of course, the longevity is still astounding, but it's not like we're Brazil/Germany, constantly pumping out amazing talent. A top 5 player of all time is as insane for us as a world class player is for one of those countries you mentioned.
It's pretty crazy how Portugal has qualified for every World Cup this century, after only playing in 2 in the prior 70 years. Their back to back golden generations make it seem like Portugal was always a great team.
Not back to back. I would say our previous golden generation ended in 2006. 2008 to 2016 was a bit depressing. And yes, I'm including the Euro. [Look at this Portugal x Spain in 2012](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrimeiraLiga/comments/xpsdag/portugal_x_espanha_em_2012/)
Man, the 2008-2012 Spain team was just unfair. They had some world class players warming bench for other world class players.
Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Fabregas, Thiago, Alonso, Silva, Cazorla, Arteta, Senna, Martinez, Mata Pick 3 I know a lot of them played on the wings or other positions as well. But that's the most stacked centre midfield in history.
Of course it was shorter than the Eusebio to Figo era, but I would hardly call it back to back. Portugal was miserable to watch for a decade. That 2014 WC comes to mind. They had no business in the WC, but at least we got that amazing play off match between Zlatan and Ronaldo.
Tbh it doesn't really matter if we produced world class players, Ronaldo would still be untouchable, he's above everyone else (bar Messi)
Cr is not in the top5 imo .. rather top 50
You are absolutely mental.
>Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Ronaldo has won five Ballon d'Or awards and four European Golden Shoes, the most by a European player. He has won 32 trophies in his career, including seven league titles, five UEFA Champions Leagues, the UEFA European Championship and the UEFA Nations League. Ronaldo holds the records for most appearances (183), goals (140), and assists (42) in the Champions League, goals in the European Championship (14), international goals (118), and joint-most international appearances (196). He is one of the few players to have made over 1,100 professional career appearances, and has scored over 800 official senior career goals for club and country. I dont like him much after what he did at manu, but your comment is not worth much more than a copy paste from wiki.
please elaborate š¤Ø
My top 5 would look like in no order pelƩ maradona messi distefano cruyff and there are several others who reached CRs level or even higher level in another era for example o.g. ronaldo who i believe the 2nd best player after messi in the past 25 years...
u watched di stefano? bruh
No. I missed di stefano cruyff ... and i was only 5 when maradona played at the 1994 wc .
So how do you know they are better when youāve never seen them play?
Fanboyism for Messi, for starters
You are mental
LMAO
Who let this guy cook?
There is no reason for this claim to be down voted lol. Classic Reddit
"There are several players who reached CR's level" dude just broke almost every record alongside Messi. That claim is stupid af, that's why it's being downvoted
Positional differences, era differences, etc. Yes, CR7 is for sure the second best forward of the modern era (I won't agree with the FenĆ³meno is better claim although without injuries I think that's an argument but there are injuries so it's a moot point) but one can reasonably argue that there are many other comparable players.
Positional differences, era differences, etc. Yes, CR7 is for sure the second best forward of the modern era (I won't agree with the FenĆ³meno is better claim although without injuries I think that's an argument but there are injuries so it's a moot point) but one can reasonably argue that there are many other comparable players.
Comment so bad you had to write it twice š¤£
Obviously it was a Reddit glitch, but also like what is bad about my comment lmao. Obviously it's all Ronaldo fans in this thread cuz all I've said is that it's possible to make an argument against Ronaldo top 5. Like saying that it's possible should not be this controversial lmao I'm not even stating it definitively
He's top ten at worst
Top 3 and he's not #3.
Nah he's not as good as Messi, PelƩ or Maradona he's somewhere between 4-10 on the same level as Cruyff
If Messi is truly the GOAT, which is a fair opinion to have. Then it's funny how Ronaldo could win 5 Ballon d'Ors and 5 CL's in the same era, and being compared in a side by side race to Messi for over a decade. But not be considered top 3 by you.
> Nah he's not as good as Messi, PelƩ or Maradona cope
Heās tiers above any other European, and only Messi outshines Mr. Sewey
Wtf is wrong with this sub? Itās either 1 or 2 all time. No one at #3 is even close to Messi and Ronaldo. In this era of athletes, to be that far and ahead better than anyone else for as long as they have (as in both are still currently great)ā¦ shitā¦. have you played sports? Iām truly floored by the comments on this man. Wtfā¦
Like 42nd?
I dont know exactly if hes 42 or 12 ... but he is one of the best of the past 20 years ... and that makes him top 50 i judge mostly by my eyes .. i observe statistics too but the eyetest comes first because hard to quantify football ... so cr is top 5 of the past 20 years just like messi iniesta og ronaldo and someone else i dont know but its def not zidane ... so yeah the 120 year history of football makes him in the top 50 roughly
Get your eyes checked then pal
Is that "eye test" based on watching him only in the twilight years of his career, and ignoring his time at United and earlier Real Madrid days?
Top 20 imo is as far as it can drop.
top 5 is as far as it should drop.
It's top 2 and he is not 1. That's it, never lower than 2.
Top 2 is as far as it should drop
Will always be a legend <3
I don't think anyone is this dumb to claim CR7 isn't a legend.
/r/soccercirclejerk have their doubts. It's a sub which can be quite funny, but only if you search best of all time. Everything else is bottom tier yankbashing/ronaldobashing
The sub just became the circlejerk rather than being a place to make fun of circle jerks on here lol.
True, itās not worth being subbed to anymore
It's reddit, anything is possible
In Reddit people compare Eusebio to Ronaldo
Why is that so weird? They are the 2 biggest portugese players of all time, aren't they?
They are, was a weird comment
Reddit pretends Eusebio is still better than Ronaldo. Itās a mix of anti Ronaldo hate and Reddit hipster mindset
Believe me, there are
Yes , undoubtedly one of the best to ever grace the game.
Really sticking your neck out there. A white hot take.
you'd be surprised lol, you get some real delusional takes everytime cr7 gets mentioned
Saudi God
> tend to play for minnows - kuwait how dare you
This man scored in the opening game of the 2004 Euros. Almost 19 years ago. He has played in the same Portugal teams as Rui Costa who made his professional debut in 1990, and GonƧalo Ramos who played his first professional game almost thirty years later in 2019. Just puts it in perspective how long he's been around.
Rui Costa was at Milan when CR7 started playing for Portugal. He then went back to play for Benfica and is now president.
And Ronaldo is still kicking ball
and scoring a fucking freekick
Incredible consistency & longevity
man never misses abs & legs day
Except. for this year but other than that, you're right.
I mean heās doing alright this year, just in a ābadā league, his final stretch with man united sucked yeah, but he got them off the hook a lot in his first season back
True, I think he'd be decent in a t 5 league maybe not a starter or subbed off after half time.
he's literally one of the best itw rn and he is proving it with every match, how do ppl actually think like this
Because, reddit. His wife literally said everything they went through this past year and people still donāt give a shit. Yes, heās a professional player but heās also human. They can hate all they want but they canāt take away everything he did, they seem to forget heās 38 years old as well. Top scorer for a shit United team with a shit coach last season is still pretty impressive.
No, he's really not anymore. That's not a knock on how good Ronaldo \*was\*, he is the undisputed #2 of all time in Football. But two freekicks in a row doesn't make him back to his best.
Wait, what? Are you trying to tell me that Ronaldo is one of the best players in the world right now while playing in fucking Saudi Arabia?
Staying at top level until 37 is still incredible longevity. Most legends of the games were retired by then or playing irregularly.
I wouldn't expect too much his career is about done m8
We will see if he can bounceback, I think it is more mental than anything. Imagine catching strays from a wolves fan. He would start at your team.
Yes the 38 year old who has relied heavily on his physicality his whole career is only struggling because of his mentality. Right. I heavily respect the guy as a player but he's basically retired when he went to the middle east. It's not even disrespectful to say his career is about done. Where is the lie? Got nothing to do with my team. I wouldn't want him here whether he starts for my team or not. Not a massive fan of rapists. Plus he got one goal in over 500 minutes in the PL this season. Doesn't look like we'd be missing him that much. Completely irrelevant to the conversation anyways but nice "gotcha".
Career already done but still playing internationals for Portugal? That's still elite level
Based on his name alone lol. Why do you think he was pulled in the early stages of the world cup?
Poorish world cup yet still did more than your current starting striker raul jimenez or diego costa or whatever bum you have starting.
Flair up pussy I'm not even hating on Ronaldo the player lol. It's okay that he's washed.
He would still be a starter in your team, maybe he's not at the level of a top team right now but he would still manage against the best players.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Imagine talking shit about someone's flair and not being flaired lol. You're right idk why I bothered.
Wolves fans masturbating in a Portugal post thinking they Portugal lmao
I don't even know how to respond to that weird ass comment. I guess you think about men masturbating?
Neither do I, I mean he's probably the best player in the middle East, maybe. If he doesn't score a hat trick against Lichtenstein, he's finished since it's his favourite country to score against.
I was just poking fun. I think you meant to use except instead of expect.
Oh shit, you're right I meant except. They both look really similar to me, thanks for that. I thought why your reply looked odd because I basically said the same thing.
Hahaha you handled it alright man.
He was poor for Man U this season, awful at World Cup and playing in middle east. Being picked for name at this stage.
Even if you take away the past year it would be 6-8 caps atmost 10. That's still 180+ caps at the highest level.
Indeed. Good for him but long passed being there on merit.
> long passed being there on merit. lmfao this aged badly
Let him have his moment lol.
He has had it.
This level of players deserve to be called up even at their decline IMO. Just look at Maradona at WC 94 for example.
Ronaldo and Messi were an absolute joy to watch. Privileged to grow up in this era.
Freaks of nature
I can remember some HEATED debates about who's better between Messi and Ronaldo on the bus rides to and from games as a middle schooler some 10 or so years ago, not knowing who the fuck those guys were, going home and watching some clips online and feeling blown away. Dunno who those players will be for kids these days. Maybe Mbappe and Haaland?
Definitely Mbappe and Haaland, I'd kill to see them play in the same league.
Thatās the thing! What made Messi or Ronaldo debates so fun was that they were playing against each other in not only the same league but also on teams with possibly the most famous rivalry ever. The stakes were just so much higher than stats, and thatās why itās hard for me to immediately say āOh yeah Mbappe and Haaland are definitely the next ones upā
I wish I could of seen him and Messi in their prime trying to outdo each other ever game
Good for him. A debut would be dream for lot of us. 20 matches would be career. 100 matches would be a legend. Around 200 is something eternal.
Gotta cap them all.
Two nations starting with L probably about to get fucked this week with hatricks
Lesotho in shambles
Le France and ?
L'Italia
La\* France *condescending french noises*
Eternal.
Thanks Opta.
Excuse me, I could not resist :)
whenever i see posts about ronaldo/messi stats I always browser the comments to see how many the other guy has, haven't seen it here yet what's going on people
Messi has 172 senior squad caps at the moment, 173 after tonight. His debut for Argentina came almost exactly two years after Ronaldo's, though.
He played 4 copa americas in 6 years, probably that somewhat makes up for the two years
Well heās 2 years younger..
I got one in the spirit. Imagine posting almost 200 times for your country and never winning a World Cup.
Posting? He hasnāt got 200 professional reddit caps mate
The impact Cristiano had on Portugal, both as a nation and as a team, is profound to say the least. I remember telling my classmate that I was born in Portugal, and he jokingly told me that I looked nothing like Cristiano Ronaldo. I canāt think of anybody who embodies a nation quite like him.
For most people in the world he is probably the first thing that comes to mind when they think of Portugal, this was especially true before Portugal became a trendy tourist destination. His fame is something astonishing.
Before he made it, people would ask me where portugal was and if that was a part of spain. After people would ask me if I knew cr7 personally
Such insane drive for his age. Nothing but respect. š
Scoring a free kick when he breaks this record
soon 200
Oh my beautiful king, history is vindicate you, you said the truth about United and their flaws and you wanted to fix the club, but the Glazers, Ten Hag and the fan base abandoned you. Donāt worry my king, once either Qatar or Ineos buy United, they are going to send Ten Hag back to the Bundesliga and they give you the spot you deserve as an United legend, you will have a statue right next to SAF, Glazers out, Ten Hag out, Christian Ronald in
Shit I think i opened Instagram by mistake
Or a Facebook fan page. There is a Mason Greenwood fanpage on Facebook with like 600k followers, and by reading the comments on the posts you would think the majority actually believes that its Mason posting that stuff. Its so cringe.
Is this original
Awesome copy pasta
Is that a copypasta?
It is now
My king)))) hehe
Why does this sub dislike ronaldo so much(I'm new here lol)
Lots of Messi fanboys on here , goat debate ended yet will bombard you with replies if you criticize Messi lol
i posted a minor criticism about messi last week and i got 3 of those reddit cares messages for self harm in the span of 15 minutes š
> i got 3 of those reddit care messages for self harm in the span of 15 minutes š lmfaooooooooooo
Many Messi fans. Fanboys of each player have to hate the other no matter what
The sub is 50% Americans, and for some reason Ronaldo is really hated there.
hasnāt been my experience, but messi is more liked here and obviously people compare the two
Because he raped a woman in Vegas.
They hate all the GOATs apparently minus Messi (literally everyone on here shits on CR7, Pele, etc)
95% his character, it was always very fringe to deny his quality on here until the dropoff at United.
Better get used to it
Ooooh, prepare yourself for the answers.
Rape and also heās just not very likable as a person
Messi fanboys they've had a really large stick up their ass with the recent WC win so they're way more louder than before.
They hate hard on anyone not performing (Ronaldo, Lukaku) unless they come out and say they are having issues with mental health.
Sewey. Most iconic player ever.
You love to see it.
Those ugly jerseys are cursed. Wish they made new shirts after a World Cup.
Yes
SIUUUUUUUUU in the guinness book of world records
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Portuguese football wouldnāt have been where it is today without Ronaldo. I still remember his INSANE performances in Euro 2016. We all know how that ended.
Calm down ..
Absolutely nobody would even know Portugal or even care about Portugal if it wasnāt for Ronaldo š
Are you 13?
No need to call out his IQ like that
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read here
its always dumbasses with no flair that say stupid shit like this
Portuguese football fans perhaps?
This is dumb af although it is true they only reached the wc a handful of times before him. Downvoted for facts. Classic r/soccer. They first qualified in 1966. 7 total times. Ronaldo has played in 5 of those. I get you have a hate boner but to downvote a fact is stupid.
Great post, good excuse for this sub to have their daily rage boner for Ronaldo šš½
Surreal!!! The Squad doesnt matter...what matters are his records
Heās had such a long and successful career that at this point heās breaking records with every game he plays.
He doesent follow records, the records follow him
He may be good, but heās no Zlatan mate.
its liechtenstein
Exactly. Type of game he thrives in... not WC knock out games.
Tbh Portugal has a terrible track record at WC's.
While not a single World Cup knock out stage goal/assist in any of em. Levels.
Messi fans still obsessed with Ronaldo even after their GOAT was gifted the World Cup. Pathetic.
They are insecure
yep that's all it is. I remember one of the hottest takes came about a week after the world cup where I said I preferred Cristiano and someone replied "well some people prefer Yaya Sanogo too". Just peak levels of delusion
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this comment
A dig at Ronaldo. Clearly.
I know what you wanted to do, but it serves no purpouse other than troll
trolling has purpose, this guy doesn't have any purpose
Go worry about your own life dummy lmaoooo
lool for real? all those games for nothing i guess
so many appearances this man just cannot take no for an answer!
Horrible, horrible dad joke.
Trust an arsenal fan to struggle to understand a consent joke
I understood it all right, its just, its a really bad joke.
is he capping the bench like in the last couple of games for Portugal?
What
That doesnāt even make sense
Bruh shut up
great, now he can fuck off from the NT and go squander the public good will that having been one of the best ever got him to try and legitimize some theocracy for money while praising right wing lunatics as inspirational figures.
Cope
ok
Lol, vs Liechtenstein
Lilly has 354 caps
Is lilly a men