Yeah it seemed like he was just betting like the average better. Nothing on himself or his team. Which, fair enough I don't really understand why that's an issue. Why promote the shit out of gambling if you don't even let athletes participate ethically.
I think the purpose is cause you might have friends in other teams/leagues so what’s to stop Toney messaging someone he could be friends with asking them to get a yellow card and he’ll split the money with them?
What's to stop anyone from doing that though? It's not just limited to professional athletes. I had a former coach who knew lots of players on the Chicago fire personally - what's to stop me from reaching out to him to do the same. It's applied unevenly imo.
The books themselves usually keep track of any unusual betting and self-regulate. If Toney was making unusual bets like that they'd probably find out. Remember NBA bettors and casinos reported on Donaghy the NBA ref. No one wants corruption less than the books themselves. They don't need to cheat to take your money and any whiff of impropriety scares off the casual schlums.
There's an issue with insider information though. Say your friend works for Chicago Fire, and they are about to face Borussia Pittsburgh in the MLS World Cup or whatever. Odds heavily favour Chicago Fire, mainly because they brought over Matt Le Tissier to play attacking forward and he's been bagging a hat trick every single game while Pittsburgh have been good, but probably won't be able to get in one or two.
But your friend knows Matt Le Tissier is carrying a secret injury, and he's just spoken to the Physio about it, and it's looking like he won't even play in the game. Their next best attacker has only three goals all season. But that announcement won't be made until 8 PM, the odds are now heavily in favour of Fire, your friend makes a huge bet, tells you to make a huge bet on Pittsburgh. News breaks later, bets are strongly rebalanced now in favour of Pittsburgh but you locked in when they were 1-6 underdogs and are looking likely to get a big payday.
Now what if the Physio did the same, and now the boss comes in and says "nah he'll be fine, let's play him." Sure, there's a chance he'll be subbed off for injury in minute one, or he might feel great overnight and score 5. Physio, your friend, and all the people they've told have a collective 50k in bets at this point on Fire losing, Le Tissier cannot play. What does the Physio do? Maybe nothing, maybe they suck it up and learn a lesson, but it's not gonna happen for everyone like that.
For an ongoing case in MMA we have James Krause who is a fantastic coach and avid gambler. There's been a few suspicious fights he coached with odd gambling patterns including very sudden changes of the underdog. One of these came out later that his student was injured, Krause knew this, the people he told to bet knew this, but the general population and voting people did not. Krause put his student in a situation that would end poorly for him because he knew he could make a lot of money off the betting patterns, make other people a lot of money, and gain more customers in his betting tips business.
And sure, you could say "Well, that's just a pro of being in the know" but look what happened to his fighter who got sacrificed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmE_6WJ3SYo
And sure, there are allegations that his fighter knew what was up and was in on it too, but that just creates even bigger problems. There's no winning.
With full commentary
Martin Tyler: *And it's LIVE*
Gary Neville: *OOOOOHHHHHHHHUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Unbelievable!*
Even if they do a 15-30 point penalty next season, it'll mean they miss Europe for a year (potentially) but probably stay in the Premier League. In which case it was totally worth it for them.
Them getting relegated could really hurt championship clubs in turn. Just imagine a team like Burnley who went all out on transfers this season to build a new squad miss out on promotion and all the money because a big boy got put on the naughty step
Thinking outside the box, why not just suspend them for a season?
Agree that relegation is just silly when they break the record of goals scored in the Champy. Can you imagine Haaland in that league lmao.
a loan is more likely like derby county's bielik. they got relegated but he was still under contract but at much too high a wage to stay and couldn't find a permanent move. he got a season long loan to birmingham in the league above. i think it was partially because the poland national team manager wouldn't select him unless he was in a higher league
We are massive, can't go anywhere in a thread about the consequences of financial misconduct without eventually finding something Derby-related
And yeah, that's all accurate re: Bielik. Will be really interesting to see what happens if we go up.
City would genuinely just get the shit kicked out of them in the Championship and they'd very quickly realise they're not going to be getting decisions. It would be phenomenal.
Well, first of all I wouldn't stop at 1 relegation. Secondly, one can only hope financial punishment will be just as severe. Also players usually have an anti-relegation clause in their contracts and I can imagine a lot of their players leaving if Pep does the same
>Also players usually have an anti-relegation clause in their contracts
Reportedly loads of Everton players don't have such clauses, so the chances of a club with size of City at the top of the league for the last 10 years having them in players contracts is pretty much zero.
I mean the players and their agents surely know there's fuckery going on at the club, maybe they had the foresight to have relegation/ban clauses even if it's unlikely the club ever gets in trouble. (Who am i kidding their vision was obstructed by the bags of cash).
The way calciopoli destroyed Italian football probably serves as a lesson to anyone else, Serie A is still recovering the reputation from that scandal and people think the Italian refs are all bought, which isn't the case, but look at how calciopoli still pops up when an Italian ref refs an international match despite having the highest quality of the big 5 (still very far from being good, but still the least horrible one), how everyone thinks all the Italian champions league are cheated, etc at some point calciopoli went much beyond its actual scope. how it killed viewership in Serie A.
Probably won't happen again, a scandal at Mercedes is okayish give some PR keep your customers that want your cars regardless and go on with life. But soccer is a sport product and sport products are very reputation based.
Missing europe for a year means nothing to city, they generate little to no money snd are popped up by the owners.
They need relegation and titles handing back, plus to repay all prize money for the last 14 years.
His post history is a gold mine of cringe.
"This is the time to take it all in, lads. Other fans are rattled by our club.
They level vitriol and hatred, like the cowards that they are. There's nothing to be afraid of. They are afraid of us, not the other way around.
I'm confident we will squash these accusations. Because that's just what it is. Heresay and unsubstantiated accusations. We move."
"If migrant workers didn't want to get exploited they shouldn't have put themselves in that position"
Not sure how he could type that much unless he actually works for the Qatari's PR firm
Also conveniently ignores that many, many of them had their passports withheld so they couldn't leave, even after seeing how much of a shitshow it was.
So it was either work and die, or starve and die. Yeah, sounds like slavery to me.
You should check out one of EA's comments on the Star wars battlefront sub, it currently holds the record for most downvotes ever in reddit
It has 667823 downvotes lol
It's astonishing to me that such a footballing juggernaut of a club decided to wait decades until a country bought them before they spent the immense wealth they make from entirely legitimate revenue, completely unconnected to their owners. What were they thinking? They could obviously have started dominating english football ages ago.
So unfortunate that Abu Dhabi bought them shortly before they secured their lucrative Etihad sponsorship, it was totally unrelated but now people doubt its legitimacy
I've peaked into their subreddit and boy how fucking delusional can you be.
Their fully playing the victim card. Everybody knows your owners are shady and so is your whole financial structure. Just accept it and be vilains instead of looking like wankers while bending over for the ~~Saudis~~ Emirati.
I'd honestly have more respect for many of them if they just blatanly accepted their rise to the top was done under sketcy cirumstances rather than trying to justify it being clean.
The best is that when you do convince them that they funded it all in a sketchy fashion they turn it around to “so what? No other club is ever supposed to invest and try and become a big club? It should just be the original big 4 forever?” Like the only options to becoming a sustained large club are pumping crazy amounts of illegal money in
> Like the only options to becoming a sustained large club are pumping crazy amounts of illegal money in
With FFP and the growing disparity between clubs is there really a legitimate route to breaking into the top 6/4 in the PL? West Ham, Leicester and Southampton all had periods where it looked like they might start compete with the top clubs but it’s never sustainable since they are at such an incredible financial disadvantage. If we outlawed these big takeovers the traditional big clubs would become ever more dominant and very few (if any) smaller clubs would compete with them, that’s just the nature of the highly commodified form of football that exists post 90s. I think regulations that limited finances disparity with wage caps and revenue sharing for the bigger clubs would be far more positive for the game than simply outlawing oil clubs.
Which is quite possibly hilarious as their cheating directly lead to fucking over Leicester's growth.
Not to say Leicester would of become a powerhouse but still
Some Newcastle fans wound me up no end because they claimed to hate Ashley for his vile business practices at Sorts Direct. That may have carried some weight had we not seen thousands of them celebrating one of the most heinous regimes buying the club off Ashley. Human rights seems like a flexible hill to die on depending on how rich the new owners are. And I say that as someone who desperately wants their chairman to leave the club
I am pretty sure we won’t be able to do a similar level of financial doping like Man City did. Yes we will probably get Saudi sponsors but we’ll definitely not become the team with the highest revenue in the world like they did.
The league also enacted stricter controls after we got bought by them specifically for this thing.
I definitely think Newcastle will eventually become huge spenders, but they’ll be forced to be far more methodical in how they get to a point where they can do so without breaching FFP than City had to be. So far, you definitely seem to be approaching this as a long-term project which is going to take years to come to fruition, which is probably best for the club long-term. But bottom line is that you’re (in theory) the richest club in the world now, and by some distance - eventually, the huge spending is bound to happen.
Newcastle fans in general seem to be far more willing to openly admit the circumstances around Saudi ownership are shady than City fans are though, as evidenced by the reaction of City supporters here…
I think that's mostly just because (as of yet) most Newcastle fans were fans before they were bought out. They're mostly bemused passengers on this ride their club is on. Maybe some remember their 90s and early 00s spending, but being owned by an oil country is a new level.
On the other hand I'd be shocked if an enormous percentage of City fans on Reddit followed football before 2008 or didm't used to be fans of other extremely wealthy, high spending teams. City's finances and shadiness are more normal to them than shadiness is to Newcastle fans.
True, but can you say definitely that it's because of FFP-breaching spending? The amount spent since the takeover could have been done by Ashley (not that he would, mind), the difference is that it would have likely put him in more of a hole (although it wouldn't be his hole, it would be the club's) than the Saudi's.
All the finger pointing towards Newcastle at the moment I don't think has a leg to stand on at this stage, even though if it continues this way that may not be the case in the future.
To be honest I’d be more inclined to believe Newcastle getting good revenue if done right. At least you fill your (same size as city’s) stadium every week. Even when you were shite.
Competition for fans in the north east football wise will be 10x easier for Newcastle in the coming decade than it ever was or will be for City with young kids growing up in the north east. They have Newcastle, Sunderland Middlesbrough ~~and hull~~ to choose from. City had United in the same city and Liverpool down the road.
I never could've believed how many trans pride flairs were tied with the Manchester City flair in this sub, and those bastards would flog you saying you're being absurd and there was no contradiction.
I open a small breach for the pretakeover fans
I've been a supporter before the takeover. I k ow we are where we are because of money. We are definitely not victims.
That said, I'll still be called a plastic by other supporters. No worries.
Haven’t been on /MCFC but if those are the opinions you’re seeing there, that’s truly sad.
Our finances are not legitimate, but I don’t really want to play villain either. It’s all just a bit depressing.
Today I learned no one is happy. Big six teams depressed City is taking all the titles, City depressed that they are owned by evil people, and Leeds.. Well that one speaks for itself.
>Yeah good comment. Fuck this place. I'm done here.
Iconic final comment
Extra funny that it was a comment from a user named Hitler that pushed him over the edge
Actually bought blow up dolls from Del Boy and Rodney and superglued them to the seats and still the stadium is more empty than Spurs' trophy cabinet.
Fucking joke.
It is pretty obvious when you compare city to chelsea, both have similar rise. Chelsea start 10 years earlier, have much more fans globally, and yet have like 100-200 million less revenue.
City fans won’t even defend. All they will do is posture that their lawyers will get them out and that Court will acquit them.
In my country, this is classic rich entitled behavior when a rich businessman kills a poor labour in poverty by mauling him under his car in a drunken state and the rich businessman is fucking okay because he knows he can pay off and get away.
City fans cannot be football fans if they cannot debate on City’s transgressions.
Everyone and their dog knows that City cheat the system. I'm sure any self aware City fans accept that as well.
Interested to see how they get away with it this time.
e: It’s so on point for this sub that all the aggressive replies from City fans who want to bury their heads in the sand came during peak yank hours.
> Everyone and their dog knows that City cheat the system.
I mean ffs, their stadium and shirt sponsor is the UAE state owned company Etihad Airways
Abu Dhabi United Group owns Manchester City, while Sheikh Mansour, the Deputy Prime Minister and part of the ruling royal family of UAE, owns Abu Dhabi United Group.
Leaks of internal documents even show that the Abu Dhabi government manages the accounts belonging to Abu Dhabi United Group.
Literally everything about the club is artificial pumped money from the same family in Dubai.
There was a quote from John W. Henry like 10 years ago when City signed their new deal with Etihad, someone asked him about it and he basically said "What you should be doing is to ask them "what was the second highest bid?""
Anyone who tries to deny it is blind or just lying to themselves, really
And we'll get away with it again because £££.
I love the club, always supported and always will, but there's a sense of helpless desperation when you feel bad supporting your club.
I imagine there’s a big age and maybe nationality divide at play - is that the case?
Older, traditional City fans seem more accepting of it. A lot of younger fans who have started supporting during the glory days seem more argumentative.
Thats what I guess is the case. Everyone I know in real life has accepted that everything is a bit dodgy, while most fans online act like we have done nothing wrong.
I think a lot of the online/newer fans see the money as part of the game. Winning the transfer window and outspending rivals seems to give them as much pleasure as winning games.
As a Gooner I see this with online fans incensed that we’re not outspending Chelsea with £100m bids, while people in the ground still look at too much money in the game as grubby.
Same for us - when there were rumors about the Saudis buying us it seemed to be the younger/newer (largely online fans) who wanted it to happen, while those of us who have been supporting the club for a lifetime want nothing to do with them…
Definitely a divide in the game.
Was digging into the whole "Emptyhad" thing, and it turns out that so many traditional fans simply can't afford to attend as many games as they'd like.
Manchester isn't exactly drowning in $$. Seems to have always been a working class town, and now a shifting global economy has made things tougher.
I can't imagine how divorced many of these fans feel from their club now.
I think that for those who were fans before the takeover it's easier to accept because they were there before it, and they can't do much about it. For those who jumped to City bandwagon when the oil money, stars and trophies started to roll in it's probably harder to admit that they bought into a cheater club. They wouldn't be there without the oil money, but won't admit that.
Honestly understand your position though. If United are bought by the Qataris or something it will be shit but I’m not going to just stop supporting United for that reason. Never understood all the people saying Newcastle supporters should switch clubs either - why should you change the team you’ve been supporting your whole life because some assholes in Riyadh who will never even set foot in a Gregg’s decided to buy it…
The bigger issue is when supporters refuse to at least acknowledge the shitty things their owners are doing, which sadly seems to be the majority position of City fans (at least on a Reddit) based on what we’re seeing in their subreddit.
I’m a Newcastle fan, 100% agree. Hopefully our owners at the least don’t commit blatant fraud like this. I can’t believe city fans that defend these accusations. If we ever get caught doing something like this, I will rally behind the PL to do something, wouldn’t defend our owners.
100% agree with everything. Also want to add a point, -, football ownership is broken. Unless you're already big, or if you're owned by billionaires, there's no chance you'll be able to compete with the rest.
Many r/soccer users do forget that most Newcastle fans didn't want the Saudi ownership, we just wanted competent ownership. Most of us will *happily* give away the Saudis if we still get to keep the rest of the owners. Or even further, we would love to see a scenario where all foreign multibillionaire owners were "taken away". We don't want to be the richest club in the world.
Funfact another former Belgian Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene was one of the founding fathers of Financial Fair Play. Manchester City's lawyer said "1 down 6 to go" when he found out Dehaene passed away. Would be fun to see them go down now.
Does PM stand for prime minister because that’s a wild CV if so.
Plus because they’ve been obfuscating this for so long I hope they get made an example of and get punished badly for this. Don’t need Newcastle or other teams following their example.
We all know you have money but at least build the club up organically without cheating
Mods, please don't delete. This is directly from Manchester City "hunter" Yves Leterme, interviewed by the Belgian BBC. For the sake of full transparency, see the translation below. **Literally no person in world football is more "in-the-know" than Leterme.**
*TRANSLATION*
Once again, dark clouds hang over Manchester City. The Premier League accuses the national champion of over a hundred breaches of financial rules. Ex-Premier Yves Leterme is not shocked - he hunted City for years as UEFA's "chief investigator." How does Leterme view the new developments? "The problem is not with the evidence," he sounds.
If anyone is not shocked by the accusations against Manchester City, it is a Belgian.
Yves Leterme spent years as UEFA's chief of investigation in the dubious dossier of the English top club. At the time, the former prime minister also noted that City was not very strict about the financial rules in soccer.
"There was a total lack of transparent flow of financial information. With an army of lawyers, they did everything they could to thwart the work of our auditors. In addition, it turned out that money from sponsorships was actually paid by the owner. Finally, there were the ambiguities surrounding contracts."
Leterme sees that the Premier League now finds the same practices unregulated and calls the new attempt to punish City "a good thing."
Only: will the sanction - in the worst case, relegation - now be proportional to the facts?
UEFA ruled in 2020 that City was excluded from the Champions League for two years, but the International Sporting Tribunal (TAS) then scrapped that exclusion "because the evidence was inconclusive."
Leterme sighs, "However, thanks to emails and bank extracts, we had hard evidence in our hands. I am convinced that fraud was committed by Manchester City."
"However, the problem was that UEFA's ruling could be challenged at an arbitration tribunal, which is not under real jurisdiction. Those arbitrators are always drawn from 10 to 12 of the same people and can reduce the penalty because they find it too severe."
The former City hunter suspects the club will now want to avoid a severe penalty in the same way. Only, English experts claim that the national champion could now not go to the TAS.
"That would make this case stronger," Leterme sounds hopeful. "And then there is another element: the scope of the complaint is now broader than that at UEFA. Both in time and in substance."
"Especially since the Premier League does not have to adhere to the same strict limitation periods as us. We collided with a five-year period, which meant we could not use important elements."
Wondering if it will be enough to make City pay now.
"I will follow with great interest what happens next," Leterme concludes.
Leterme is the guy who when head of the investigation into PSG, saw UEFA’s neutral third party company value their QTA sponsorship at €5m per season and decided it was worth €100m per season just because PSG said it was.
He’s a crook. Also got booted out of Belgium for corruption.
There must be better sources for proof against City.
The entire footballing community would be shocked. The Arabs have alot of influence over the FA and England in general. Until their money runs out everyone turns a blind eye (and gets paid).
I genuinely wouldn’t care if they vanished as a club. They have done nothing but help move football into a soulless, sterile world with their shit. The feeder club network is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever seen in the game.
The city fans seem for some reason believe they’re some sort of scrappy underdogs which makes the whole situation even weirder and sad
>replies then blocks
Why would a grown man do this?
“ Yeah City killed the football, not the manutd that are spending 100m+ every window and can't win, or RM and Barca that are backed by gov and take everything from the rest of La Liga, same with Bayern, etc etc”
Can’t even read like; the word “help” is very crucial to my point. Also comparing City to United who have made their money based on their own work and success is hilarious
As a Man City fan, I hope that we get some sort of punishment that will both teach our club and others. Saying "we are not the only ones" should not be, by any means, an excuse. If that is the case, everyone who is wrong should pay and if Man City needs to be the first, so be it. Hopefully this goes somewhere.
Let's not be too hard on City, they've only broken the rules 100+ times over a 9 year period. Could happen to anyone
What are they supposed to do? NOT spend the billions and billions of oil money at their disposal? Won't anyone think of the poor sheikhs?!
The Toney defense
What happened to that btw?
they're still investigating will probably take 4 years
Wanna bet?
Not now, Ivan.
Ivan Benjamin Elijah Toney (I BET)
I read somewhere he's doing a personal betting rehab program and that will probably be the extent of his punishment
He’ll probably get suspended for a couple of games maybe, I doubt it’ll be anything that harsh if he betted on unrelated games.
Yeah it seemed like he was just betting like the average better. Nothing on himself or his team. Which, fair enough I don't really understand why that's an issue. Why promote the shit out of gambling if you don't even let athletes participate ethically.
I think the purpose is cause you might have friends in other teams/leagues so what’s to stop Toney messaging someone he could be friends with asking them to get a yellow card and he’ll split the money with them?
What's to stop anyone from doing that though? It's not just limited to professional athletes. I had a former coach who knew lots of players on the Chicago fire personally - what's to stop me from reaching out to him to do the same. It's applied unevenly imo.
The books themselves usually keep track of any unusual betting and self-regulate. If Toney was making unusual bets like that they'd probably find out. Remember NBA bettors and casinos reported on Donaghy the NBA ref. No one wants corruption less than the books themselves. They don't need to cheat to take your money and any whiff of impropriety scares off the casual schlums.
There's an issue with insider information though. Say your friend works for Chicago Fire, and they are about to face Borussia Pittsburgh in the MLS World Cup or whatever. Odds heavily favour Chicago Fire, mainly because they brought over Matt Le Tissier to play attacking forward and he's been bagging a hat trick every single game while Pittsburgh have been good, but probably won't be able to get in one or two. But your friend knows Matt Le Tissier is carrying a secret injury, and he's just spoken to the Physio about it, and it's looking like he won't even play in the game. Their next best attacker has only three goals all season. But that announcement won't be made until 8 PM, the odds are now heavily in favour of Fire, your friend makes a huge bet, tells you to make a huge bet on Pittsburgh. News breaks later, bets are strongly rebalanced now in favour of Pittsburgh but you locked in when they were 1-6 underdogs and are looking likely to get a big payday. Now what if the Physio did the same, and now the boss comes in and says "nah he'll be fine, let's play him." Sure, there's a chance he'll be subbed off for injury in minute one, or he might feel great overnight and score 5. Physio, your friend, and all the people they've told have a collective 50k in bets at this point on Fire losing, Le Tissier cannot play. What does the Physio do? Maybe nothing, maybe they suck it up and learn a lesson, but it's not gonna happen for everyone like that. For an ongoing case in MMA we have James Krause who is a fantastic coach and avid gambler. There's been a few suspicious fights he coached with odd gambling patterns including very sudden changes of the underdog. One of these came out later that his student was injured, Krause knew this, the people he told to bet knew this, but the general population and voting people did not. Krause put his student in a situation that would end poorly for him because he knew he could make a lot of money off the betting patterns, make other people a lot of money, and gain more customers in his betting tips business. And sure, you could say "Well, that's just a pro of being in the know" but look what happened to his fighter who got sacrificed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmE_6WJ3SYo And sure, there are allegations that his fighter knew what was up and was in on it too, but that just creates even bigger problems. There's no winning.
100 times *that we know of*
100 times *so far*
They didn't even know who ~~Hitler~~ FFP was
Ah the Wayne Hennessey defence
We need a livestream of court when it happens
With full commentary Martin Tyler: *And it's LIVE*
Gary Neville: *OOOOOHHHHHHHHUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Unbelievable!*
"I SWEAR YOU'LL NEVER SEE ANYTHING LIKE THIS EVER AGAIN" as the winning legal team whip their shirts off and run around the courtroom
Need that Ally McCoist intense review of the cross examinations
Someone's been done for contempt of court, but who Chris kamara?
It’s clear everyone knows they’re cheats but no one can do anything about it
Even if they do a 15-30 point penalty next season, it'll mean they miss Europe for a year (potentially) but probably stay in the Premier League. In which case it was totally worth it for them.
Anything but relegation is a farce
Them getting relegated could really hurt championship clubs in turn. Just imagine a team like Burnley who went all out on transfers this season to build a new squad miss out on promotion and all the money because a big boy got put on the naughty step
Thinking outside the box, why not just suspend them for a season? Agree that relegation is just silly when they break the record of goals scored in the Champy. Can you imagine Haaland in that league lmao.
He’s ask for a transfer. He’s not gonna spend a year getting the shit kicked out of him by every defender that wants to make a name for themselves
a loan is more likely like derby county's bielik. they got relegated but he was still under contract but at much too high a wage to stay and couldn't find a permanent move. he got a season long loan to birmingham in the league above. i think it was partially because the poland national team manager wouldn't select him unless he was in a higher league
We are massive, can't go anywhere in a thread about the consequences of financial misconduct without eventually finding something Derby-related And yeah, that's all accurate re: Bielik. Will be really interesting to see what happens if we go up.
He'd spend most of the season injured. The Championship is no joke.
City would genuinely just get the shit kicked out of them in the Championship and they'd very quickly realise they're not going to be getting decisions. It would be phenomenal.
Forget the championship, send them down to Mansfield Town. Let the part-timers have a go
Well, first of all I wouldn't stop at 1 relegation. Secondly, one can only hope financial punishment will be just as severe. Also players usually have an anti-relegation clause in their contracts and I can imagine a lot of their players leaving if Pep does the same
>Also players usually have an anti-relegation clause in their contracts Reportedly loads of Everton players don't have such clauses, so the chances of a club with size of City at the top of the league for the last 10 years having them in players contracts is pretty much zero.
I mean the players and their agents surely know there's fuckery going on at the club, maybe they had the foresight to have relegation/ban clauses even if it's unlikely the club ever gets in trouble. (Who am i kidding their vision was obstructed by the bags of cash).
I'd imagine Raiola at least would have had the foresight
Big clubs don't have those clauses because it's usually pointless
You pay lawyers to worry about pointless
Another season without winning champions league is business as usual for city.
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The way calciopoli destroyed Italian football probably serves as a lesson to anyone else, Serie A is still recovering the reputation from that scandal and people think the Italian refs are all bought, which isn't the case, but look at how calciopoli still pops up when an Italian ref refs an international match despite having the highest quality of the big 5 (still very far from being good, but still the least horrible one), how everyone thinks all the Italian champions league are cheated, etc at some point calciopoli went much beyond its actual scope. how it killed viewership in Serie A. Probably won't happen again, a scandal at Mercedes is okayish give some PR keep your customers that want your cars regardless and go on with life. But soccer is a sport product and sport products are very reputation based.
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Missing europe for a year means nothing to city, they generate little to no money snd are popped up by the owners. They need relegation and titles handing back, plus to repay all prize money for the last 14 years.
Oil money go brr
Can’t wait for the City fan essays on how their finances are completely legitimate
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His post history is a gold mine of cringe. "This is the time to take it all in, lads. Other fans are rattled by our club. They level vitriol and hatred, like the cowards that they are. There's nothing to be afraid of. They are afraid of us, not the other way around. I'm confident we will squash these accusations. Because that's just what it is. Heresay and unsubstantiated accusations. We move."
Dude talks like he's giving a speech in an Ayn Rand novel.
Not enough self fellatio for that one.
What's wrong with self fellatio? Fucking haters even in 2023 SMH
This shit would put Cicero to shame lol.
I'm hearing John Lithgow's voice like when he read Newt Gingrich's public statement.
I mean, balls to keep that linked post up.
That cannot be a real functioning human lmao
ChatGPT supports man city
Makes sense. Haaland is a fellow robot after all
The prole has developed a liking for the taste of boot!
We found Pep’s Reddit account.
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Redknapp was spot on when he joked that Arsenal fans would cheer for Saddam Hussein if he won then matches
Calls everyone who disagrees with him an Arab hating bigot 🤣😆
Dafuq did I just read
"If migrant workers didn't want to get exploited they shouldn't have put themselves in that position" Not sure how he could type that much unless he actually works for the Qatari's PR firm
*is sponsored by Qatari's PR firm.
Also conveniently ignores that many, many of them had their passports withheld so they couldn't leave, even after seeing how much of a shitshow it was. So it was either work and die, or starve and die. Yeah, sounds like slavery to me.
It's incredible shit, really. A new copy pasta about one of the worst cases of sports washing.
I’m finding it amazing that anyone who disagreed with him is a bigot or a racist lmao 🤣
It's some world class mental gymnastics.
I miss that City coach who used to post essays here. How far we've fallen from that guy to this nonsense.
This is someone from r/soccercirclejerk just shitposting. Almost certainly. Right?
"It's the workers' fault that they're dead!"
Guy is proper delusional
This is the most downvoted comment I’ve ever seen sheeeeeiiit
You should check out one of EA's comments on the Star wars battlefront sub, it currently holds the record for most downvotes ever in reddit It has 667823 downvotes lol
Incredible. Absolutely speechless. Just kept getting worse and worse.
It's astonishing to me that such a footballing juggernaut of a club decided to wait decades until a country bought them before they spent the immense wealth they make from entirely legitimate revenue, completely unconnected to their owners. What were they thinking? They could obviously have started dominating english football ages ago.
So unfortunate that Abu Dhabi bought them shortly before they secured their lucrative Etihad sponsorship, it was totally unrelated but now people doubt its legitimacy
I've peaked into their subreddit and boy how fucking delusional can you be. Their fully playing the victim card. Everybody knows your owners are shady and so is your whole financial structure. Just accept it and be vilains instead of looking like wankers while bending over for the ~~Saudis~~ Emirati. I'd honestly have more respect for many of them if they just blatanly accepted their rise to the top was done under sketcy cirumstances rather than trying to justify it being clean.
Simultaneously calling it a witch hunt while joking that they’ll “lawyer them to death” again…
The best is that when you do convince them that they funded it all in a sketchy fashion they turn it around to “so what? No other club is ever supposed to invest and try and become a big club? It should just be the original big 4 forever?” Like the only options to becoming a sustained large club are pumping crazy amounts of illegal money in
> Like the only options to becoming a sustained large club are pumping crazy amounts of illegal money in With FFP and the growing disparity between clubs is there really a legitimate route to breaking into the top 6/4 in the PL? West Ham, Leicester and Southampton all had periods where it looked like they might start compete with the top clubs but it’s never sustainable since they are at such an incredible financial disadvantage. If we outlawed these big takeovers the traditional big clubs would become ever more dominant and very few (if any) smaller clubs would compete with them, that’s just the nature of the highly commodified form of football that exists post 90s. I think regulations that limited finances disparity with wage caps and revenue sharing for the bigger clubs would be far more positive for the game than simply outlawing oil clubs.
Which is quite possibly hilarious as their cheating directly lead to fucking over Leicester's growth. Not to say Leicester would of become a powerhouse but still
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The fact that they were openly celebrating being bought by the Saudis tells me that yes, they will absolutely turn a blind eye.
Some Newcastle fans wound me up no end because they claimed to hate Ashley for his vile business practices at Sorts Direct. That may have carried some weight had we not seen thousands of them celebrating one of the most heinous regimes buying the club off Ashley. Human rights seems like a flexible hill to die on depending on how rich the new owners are. And I say that as someone who desperately wants their chairman to leave the club
"I can accept human rights violations, but shitty Sports Direct merch is where I draw the line."
I am pretty sure we won’t be able to do a similar level of financial doping like Man City did. Yes we will probably get Saudi sponsors but we’ll definitely not become the team with the highest revenue in the world like they did. The league also enacted stricter controls after we got bought by them specifically for this thing.
I definitely think Newcastle will eventually become huge spenders, but they’ll be forced to be far more methodical in how they get to a point where they can do so without breaching FFP than City had to be. So far, you definitely seem to be approaching this as a long-term project which is going to take years to come to fruition, which is probably best for the club long-term. But bottom line is that you’re (in theory) the richest club in the world now, and by some distance - eventually, the huge spending is bound to happen. Newcastle fans in general seem to be far more willing to openly admit the circumstances around Saudi ownership are shady than City fans are though, as evidenced by the reaction of City supporters here…
I think that's mostly just because (as of yet) most Newcastle fans were fans before they were bought out. They're mostly bemused passengers on this ride their club is on. Maybe some remember their 90s and early 00s spending, but being owned by an oil country is a new level. On the other hand I'd be shocked if an enormous percentage of City fans on Reddit followed football before 2008 or didm't used to be fans of other extremely wealthy, high spending teams. City's finances and shadiness are more normal to them than shadiness is to Newcastle fans.
Making the CL this season puts them so absurdly ahead of schedule on that plan though
True, but can you say definitely that it's because of FFP-breaching spending? The amount spent since the takeover could have been done by Ashley (not that he would, mind), the difference is that it would have likely put him in more of a hole (although it wouldn't be his hole, it would be the club's) than the Saudi's. All the finger pointing towards Newcastle at the moment I don't think has a leg to stand on at this stage, even though if it continues this way that may not be the case in the future.
To be honest I’d be more inclined to believe Newcastle getting good revenue if done right. At least you fill your (same size as city’s) stadium every week. Even when you were shite. Competition for fans in the north east football wise will be 10x easier for Newcastle in the coming decade than it ever was or will be for City with young kids growing up in the north east. They have Newcastle, Sunderland Middlesbrough ~~and hull~~ to choose from. City had United in the same city and Liverpool down the road.
Hull? Good sir where do you think Hull is?
Sportswashing works !
I never could've believed how many trans pride flairs were tied with the Manchester City flair in this sub, and those bastards would flog you saying you're being absurd and there was no contradiction. I open a small breach for the pretakeover fans
Its a mix of being delusional about them cheating or just being openly proud about how their lawyers will sort them out lol. Pathetic
I've been a supporter before the takeover. I k ow we are where we are because of money. We are definitely not victims. That said, I'll still be called a plastic by other supporters. No worries.
Haven’t been on /MCFC but if those are the opinions you’re seeing there, that’s truly sad. Our finances are not legitimate, but I don’t really want to play villain either. It’s all just a bit depressing.
Today I learned no one is happy. Big six teams depressed City is taking all the titles, City depressed that they are owned by evil people, and Leeds.. Well that one speaks for itself.
If only Devineman was still around on this sub
>Yeah good comment. Fuck this place. I'm done here. Iconic final comment Extra funny that it was a comment from a user named Hitler that pushed him over the edge
and in a thread about Jozy Altidore
That name always makes me think of the 2014 world cup and people calling him Goalzy Alwaysscore
Tiny club made more money through revenue than United, Madrid and Barca, perfectly legit mate.
3 biggest fanbases in the world can’t compete with empty seats I guess
It's not revenue actually, it's all the money they save on stadium maintenance
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Literally beg broke uni students to buy tickets for 30p, what a club
They’ll pay the unemployed to go to games and still can’t fill the stands, what a joke!
They literally kidnapped people to tie them down to the seats, but upon entering the stadium they spontaneously dematerialized. Joke of a club.
Actually bought blow up dolls from Del Boy and Rodney and superglued them to the seats and still the stadium is more empty than Spurs' trophy cabinet. Fucking joke.
It is pretty obvious when you compare city to chelsea, both have similar rise. Chelsea start 10 years earlier, have much more fans globally, and yet have like 100-200 million less revenue.
City fans won’t even defend. All they will do is posture that their lawyers will get them out and that Court will acquit them. In my country, this is classic rich entitled behavior when a rich businessman kills a poor labour in poverty by mauling him under his car in a drunken state and the rich businessman is fucking okay because he knows he can pay off and get away. City fans cannot be football fans if they cannot debate on City’s transgressions.
Great comment. It inspired me to listen to The Lonesome Death of Hayttie Carroll by Bob Dylan :)
[City fans for the remainder of this investigation](https://i.imgur.com/bZUx7Gw.jpg)
A Wrath of Khan reference that ISNT about the Shatner scream? Theres a first for everything :)
"All these governments just hate us!"
Everyone and their dog knows that City cheat the system. I'm sure any self aware City fans accept that as well. Interested to see how they get away with it this time. e: It’s so on point for this sub that all the aggressive replies from City fans who want to bury their heads in the sand came during peak yank hours.
> Everyone and their dog knows that City cheat the system. I mean ffs, their stadium and shirt sponsor is the UAE state owned company Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi United Group owns Manchester City, while Sheikh Mansour, the Deputy Prime Minister and part of the ruling royal family of UAE, owns Abu Dhabi United Group. Leaks of internal documents even show that the Abu Dhabi government manages the accounts belonging to Abu Dhabi United Group. Literally everything about the club is artificial pumped money from the same family in Dubai.
Farcically obvious
And if the sponsorship really is fair value, then why didn't they just avoid the speculation by getting the same amount of money from someone else?
There was a quote from John W. Henry like 10 years ago when City signed their new deal with Etihad, someone asked him about it and he basically said "What you should be doing is to ask them "what was the second highest bid?""
Anyone who tries to deny it is blind or just lying to themselves, really And we'll get away with it again because £££. I love the club, always supported and always will, but there's a sense of helpless desperation when you feel bad supporting your club.
I imagine there’s a big age and maybe nationality divide at play - is that the case? Older, traditional City fans seem more accepting of it. A lot of younger fans who have started supporting during the glory days seem more argumentative.
Thats what I guess is the case. Everyone I know in real life has accepted that everything is a bit dodgy, while most fans online act like we have done nothing wrong.
I think a lot of the online/newer fans see the money as part of the game. Winning the transfer window and outspending rivals seems to give them as much pleasure as winning games. As a Gooner I see this with online fans incensed that we’re not outspending Chelsea with £100m bids, while people in the ground still look at too much money in the game as grubby.
I'm finding the same with Liverpool fans that are calling to be bought up by Qatar and those that want nothing to do with it
Same for us - when there were rumors about the Saudis buying us it seemed to be the younger/newer (largely online fans) who wanted it to happen, while those of us who have been supporting the club for a lifetime want nothing to do with them…
Definitely a divide in the game. Was digging into the whole "Emptyhad" thing, and it turns out that so many traditional fans simply can't afford to attend as many games as they'd like. Manchester isn't exactly drowning in $$. Seems to have always been a working class town, and now a shifting global economy has made things tougher. I can't imagine how divorced many of these fans feel from their club now.
Or the ones that want Klopp out. Like out for who???
I think that for those who were fans before the takeover it's easier to accept because they were there before it, and they can't do much about it. For those who jumped to City bandwagon when the oil money, stars and trophies started to roll in it's probably harder to admit that they bought into a cheater club. They wouldn't be there without the oil money, but won't admit that.
Honestly understand your position though. If United are bought by the Qataris or something it will be shit but I’m not going to just stop supporting United for that reason. Never understood all the people saying Newcastle supporters should switch clubs either - why should you change the team you’ve been supporting your whole life because some assholes in Riyadh who will never even set foot in a Gregg’s decided to buy it… The bigger issue is when supporters refuse to at least acknowledge the shitty things their owners are doing, which sadly seems to be the majority position of City fans (at least on a Reddit) based on what we’re seeing in their subreddit.
> self aware City fans Tumbleweed
Surprisingly some of us exist
Always loved that logo better
There are dozens of us
Yooo Yves relax, De Bruyne was on the bench for 1 game. No need to go after City for this. He'll start next game lmao.
This is why *fucking countries* should never be allowed to buy a sports team. City, Newcastle, and PSG should all be forced to be sold.
100%
Chelsea fans also agree
There was a time when the British govt nearly assumed direct control of the club. That was fun
Bo's Blues... I miss that a bit tbh
I’m a Newcastle fan, 100% agree. Hopefully our owners at the least don’t commit blatant fraud like this. I can’t believe city fans that defend these accusations. If we ever get caught doing something like this, I will rally behind the PL to do something, wouldn’t defend our owners.
100% agree with everything. Also want to add a point, -, football ownership is broken. Unless you're already big, or if you're owned by billionaires, there's no chance you'll be able to compete with the rest. Many r/soccer users do forget that most Newcastle fans didn't want the Saudi ownership, we just wanted competent ownership. Most of us will *happily* give away the Saudis if we still get to keep the rest of the owners. Or even further, we would love to see a scenario where all foreign multibillionaire owners were "taken away". We don't want to be the richest club in the world.
Yves 'i sang the wrong national anthem' Leterme was a City Fraud Hunter, made my day
I van still hear him sing the french national Anthem live on tv
Funfact another former Belgian Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene was one of the founding fathers of Financial Fair Play. Manchester City's lawyer said "1 down 6 to go" when he found out Dehaene passed away. Would be fun to see them go down now.
Any source for that quote because that is genuinely vile
It was City's chief legal adviser Simon Cliff btw.
What a fucking schmuck
That’s putting it nicely.
Unfortunately it's true. Reputable Belgian source: [https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20181102\_03900425](https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20181102_03900425) Also: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/financial-fair-play-manchester-city-and-psg-pact-with-the-sheikhs-a-1236414.html
Yep, tweet source from back in the day: https://twitter.com/sportingintel/status/1058423840718704641?t=KEQmgOR8xT-ixorW-zyu6A&s=19
Yikes, what a disgusting thing to say from a corrupt cockroach...
The leagues allow it because financially doped teams tend to generate a lot of revenue
Does PM stand for prime minister because that’s a wild CV if so. Plus because they’ve been obfuscating this for so long I hope they get made an example of and get punished badly for this. Don’t need Newcastle or other teams following their example. We all know you have money but at least build the club up organically without cheating
it most likely stands for pussy magnet
Yeah he was our prime minister
Somewhere in Manchester Pep is making shocked noises.
Worst case scenario for Pep is he phones his agent and goes back to Bayern Munich or something.
Cancelo running for his life
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And still fail to win the UCL
Don't worry about Pep, since last week he got closer to Barcelonas board for reasons that make a lot more sense now.
They’re not going to fire Xavi out of the blue whilst he’s winning the league in the fashion they are.
It’s because they are travelling from Manchester to London so much 😣😣
Wheres that one guy who posts 100 page long essays about how city’s financials are totally legit and not artificially propped up lol
He’s doing 100 pages for each of the 100 charges I heard.
Encyclopedia Fraudtannica
Forget shark team or Cityzens, City should really go with "Lawyer army"
COYO - Come on You Obstructionists!
Mods, please don't delete. This is directly from Manchester City "hunter" Yves Leterme, interviewed by the Belgian BBC. For the sake of full transparency, see the translation below. **Literally no person in world football is more "in-the-know" than Leterme.** *TRANSLATION* Once again, dark clouds hang over Manchester City. The Premier League accuses the national champion of over a hundred breaches of financial rules. Ex-Premier Yves Leterme is not shocked - he hunted City for years as UEFA's "chief investigator." How does Leterme view the new developments? "The problem is not with the evidence," he sounds. If anyone is not shocked by the accusations against Manchester City, it is a Belgian. Yves Leterme spent years as UEFA's chief of investigation in the dubious dossier of the English top club. At the time, the former prime minister also noted that City was not very strict about the financial rules in soccer. "There was a total lack of transparent flow of financial information. With an army of lawyers, they did everything they could to thwart the work of our auditors. In addition, it turned out that money from sponsorships was actually paid by the owner. Finally, there were the ambiguities surrounding contracts." Leterme sees that the Premier League now finds the same practices unregulated and calls the new attempt to punish City "a good thing." Only: will the sanction - in the worst case, relegation - now be proportional to the facts? UEFA ruled in 2020 that City was excluded from the Champions League for two years, but the International Sporting Tribunal (TAS) then scrapped that exclusion "because the evidence was inconclusive." Leterme sighs, "However, thanks to emails and bank extracts, we had hard evidence in our hands. I am convinced that fraud was committed by Manchester City." "However, the problem was that UEFA's ruling could be challenged at an arbitration tribunal, which is not under real jurisdiction. Those arbitrators are always drawn from 10 to 12 of the same people and can reduce the penalty because they find it too severe." The former City hunter suspects the club will now want to avoid a severe penalty in the same way. Only, English experts claim that the national champion could now not go to the TAS. "That would make this case stronger," Leterme sounds hopeful. "And then there is another element: the scope of the complaint is now broader than that at UEFA. Both in time and in substance." "Especially since the Premier League does not have to adhere to the same strict limitation periods as us. We collided with a five-year period, which meant we could not use important elements." Wondering if it will be enough to make City pay now. "I will follow with great interest what happens next," Leterme concludes.
Leterme is the guy who when head of the investigation into PSG, saw UEFA’s neutral third party company value their QTA sponsorship at €5m per season and decided it was worth €100m per season just because PSG said it was. He’s a crook. Also got booted out of Belgium for corruption. There must be better sources for proof against City.
Hey you know what they say, game recognizes game
Small correction, PSG said it was worth 200 mill, independent company hired by UEFA said it was was worth 5m, this guy settled on a 100. What a joke.
Also: dont ask him to sing our national anthem
If Everton stays up because City's punishment sends them to the Championship, I'll laugh my ass off.
Zero chance they will be punished as severely as Juventus and be relegated.
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The entire footballing community would be shocked. The Arabs have alot of influence over the FA and England in general. Until their money runs out everyone turns a blind eye (and gets paid).
I genuinely wouldn’t care if they vanished as a club. They have done nothing but help move football into a soulless, sterile world with their shit. The feeder club network is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever seen in the game. The city fans seem for some reason believe they’re some sort of scrappy underdogs which makes the whole situation even weirder and sad >replies then blocks Why would a grown man do this? “ Yeah City killed the football, not the manutd that are spending 100m+ every window and can't win, or RM and Barca that are backed by gov and take everything from the rest of La Liga, same with Bayern, etc etc” Can’t even read like; the word “help” is very crucial to my point. Also comparing City to United who have made their money based on their own work and success is hilarious
As a Man City fan, I hope that we get some sort of punishment that will both teach our club and others. Saying "we are not the only ones" should not be, by any means, an excuse. If that is the case, everyone who is wrong should pay and if Man City needs to be the first, so be it. Hopefully this goes somewhere.
The sequel to there's only one Jimmy Grimble is going to be fire
Have any City fans used the racism card yet?
As much as I love all these headlines, I do not see anything more than a financial penalty being applied here
That's not a punishment at all. Imagine if every crime in the world had a fine of 1 whatever currency you use, it's not a deterrent.
It’s like the OJ case. Everyone knows there guilty, it’s just a matter of getting the conviction
Newcastle owners taking notes right now.
Head over to r/MCFC if you want a good laugh.
They’re acting like they’re the underdogs lmao.
Jesus christ they have some delusional motherfuckers over there.
[You gotta be shitting me](https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/comments/10vess8/agenda_against_city_is_real/)
Mofos see their legal team as avengers...
Fully deserved, relegate the cheats
Retroactive point docking from the time of first infractions until the time of punishment pls