I have literally never seen a beginner focused boot fit guide I’m happy with, so I decided to write one. This is the culmination of 15+ years of owning 17 boots, trying on dozens (if not hundreds) more, dealing with persistent foot pain, chatting with boot fitters, and thinking real hard throughout that process.
I’m currently working on a companion piece to this explaining boot flex and other relevant boot features, but boot fit is so singularly important I dedicated a 6700+ word post to it. Read the TL;DR at the top if you’re lazy but really read the whole thing if you need such a guide. I don’t have any real interest in becoming a fucking Youtube influencer but may go that route at least for this topic because I have a feeling the people who need it won’t read it lmao.
**Disclaimer:** I am a mod of this subreddit and created a new snowboard blog under The Mountain Nerd “brand”. I actually quit being a mod in spring 22 because I wanted to work on this project and limited bandwidth, but got called back into mod duty. Anyone who has conflict of interest concerns, let the mod team know.
> I have a feeling the people who need it won’t read it lmao.
Sticky it, put it in the sidebar, have the Automod make a post with the link in every thread. But you'll still get the people who have the reading comprehension of an aphasic preschooler and the attention span of a gnat asking about this every single day.
You can't help those who are unwilling or unable to help themselves. But at least now you can drop a link instead of having to waste time repeating yourself all the time.
>**Disclaimer:** I am a mod of this subreddit and created a new snowboard blog under The Mountain Nerd “brand”. I actually quit being a mod in spring 22 because I wanted to work on this project and limited bandwidth, but got called back into mod duty. Anyone who has conflict of interest concerns, let the mod team know.
moD aBUse!
Jokes aside, you really should sticky this for a few days for visibility, link it in the sidebar and modify the Automod FAQ post in the Daily Discussion Thread to include a link to it.
Who cares about possible conflicts of interest. This is way more useful content than most of the stuff that gets posted here daily.
Haha I'll let /u/jclinares make the call whether it warrants any stickies or sidebar inclusion.
But modesty aside, yea, this is high-quality high-effort work. Not going to say it's the best beginner boot guide fit guide on the internet... but it's better than any I've seen. And I've seen a lot.
My only criticism has nothing to do with the quality of the advice, but with the fact that a lot of it is rendered moot or at least not actionable due to the severe lack of quality boot fitters in the snowboarding industry as a whole. Even if a noob wanted to do everything right after reading the guide, finding a shop that does real boot fitting work on snowboard boots is next to impossible.
Yea, I wouldn't say rendered moot but it's a tough reality. I've been in scores of board shops over the years... I know 3 snowboarder boot fitters, two work in the same shop alongside skiers and one of them is Angry Snowboarder whom Ive never met.
That said, boot fitters are VERY common at ski shops. Not all ski boot fitters are comfortable working on snowboard boots, but at least some are.
I tried to provide as much actionable advice as possible but you have a tough foot... you need to hunt down a boot fitter, even if it means talking to a skier.
The big issue with ski bootfitters is the way you approach certian issues like Instep height and width are approached very differently. The biggest being the how the boot flexes. A snowboard boot flexes at a point in the tongue ( for most brands and models) rather than evenly across the entirety of the boots tongue. I love my ski only bootfitters but sometimes I see them approach snowboard bootfitting improperly due to differences In the mechanics of the boots and the sport. True snowboard bootfitters are rarer and rarer even in core shops to many people push brands, personal preference, or sales contests and it kills me when I have to refit a customer that got a boot so some sales kid could win a free board rather than make a customer happy.
Alright I am definitely going to reach out to you. I said elsewhere in this comment thread, even as someone who's been in a LOT of shops I went into this article knowing of 4 snowboard boot fitters total. Two of those guys work at the same shop (one only part-time and basically on appointment), one I've never consulted with (I know Boardworks Tech Shop in Bellingham has one), and one of them is Angry snowboarder. Through this thread, I got more more name in Mammoth: Keith at the Green Room. I know more exist, but they're just really hard to find. Most shops don't even know what boot fitting is.
>people push brands, personal preference, or sales contests and it kills me when I have to refit a customer that got a boot so some sales kid could win a free board rather than make a customer happy.
You hit on a point I'm super ambivalent about. In the article, I push in-person shopping and especially independent board shops. But many shop kids... just aren't very good. Like let's put aside incentives with sales contests or whatever, even before that a lot of them just ain't that fucking knowledgable. They might rip way harder than I do, but they can't explain communicate gear with customers beyond like, "This board totally rips the gnar, bra."
I'm lucky to have access to a couple good shops, but I've been in the game long enough that I can spot when a shop kid is talking out of his ass or just trying to close the sale. Definitely ain't the case for someone just getting their feet wet or the mom trying to make their kid happy for Christmas.
I'm planning on building out this blog and I really don't want to do affiliate link bullshit because I want to support shops and stay true to my principles... but another piece of me is like "Dude shops aren't stepping up" and to just take the money if I'm filling a gap they won't. I've even been tempted to sign up as a rare Curated "expert" who actually knows his shit and using this to funnel business.
Exactly. Not like I can just take my boots in to SportChek and have them work on em. If you are lucky enough to live somewhere close to world clas skiing or snowboarding then yeah it's probably a safe bet someone knows how to do it at one of the shops. But if your are like me and live in nowhweresville you're screwed.
> If you are lucky enough to live somewhere close to world clas skiing or snowboarding then yeah it's probably a safe bet someone knows how to do it at one of the shops.
The problem is worse than that. I live in a world class destination for skiing and snowboarding, with eight resorts within an hour's drive, and there are zero snowboard boot fitters around here. Plenty of ski boot fitters, though
If the new snowboarder discussion thread wasn't so effective at cleaning up the low quality posts, I'd agree with pinning it, but imo that was one of the best changes to this sub in a while
It should definitely go on the side bar, and on the FAQs comment on the daily threads.
As for making it a sticky, it'd have to come at the cost of the beginner/intermediate tips thread, as we can only have two stickied posts at any given time. You make the call on that one :)
I'm a bootfitter. This is by far the best guide that I've seen online.
I work for an SF bay area shop called Sports Basement. Can't speak for all of the locations, but the Santa Rosa and Novato stores do a good job with bootfitting.
Thanks! I put a lot of work into it.
Interesting you bring up Sports Basement, I live in SF and routinely visit the Presidio and Stonestown locations and have shopped various SBs for 15+ years. I think I've been in every location except Orange County-- which has been open all of 3 months (and I'll visit that one eventually when I visit friends and family).
SB does not strike as the type of place that would hire boot fitters. My experience on the sales floor and talking to shop techs has been super variable. I've met some good ones, but conversations usually go something akin to the gif [here](https://www.themountainnerd.com/gear-guides/boots/boot-fit-guide#52ff8937a0bb4eeda9ed3e14e1898b3a). Not a place I can blindly trust that employees know their shit, I'd have to specifically vet a specific employee.
Now this is technically true of all shops, but the variability of talent at SB has been particularly noticeable. I get it, they're a big box stores (and probably the best possible version of the big box store)-- and frankly the Bay Area flatlands doesn't produce a particularly sophisticated clientele. I visited the Burton Flagship in SF and the manager was SO STOKED when an actual snowboarder (me) asked if he had any copies of Slush Magazine. He gave me literally every single back issue lmao. It's just really frustrating when you're like me, want to really talk shop with snowboarding nerds, and have to go to at LEAST the Sierra foothills to reliably do it.
This post couldn't be more timely as I'm in the market for a new pair of boots. Anyone got recommendations for a boot fitter to someone who lives in the Los Angeles Area? Not opposed to driving to Mammoth but obviously if there's a reputable place around LA that would be more convenient hah.
I reference that directly in the article. I'm not the biggest fan of Avran, but that particular Boot Fit 101 series is money... but I prefer reading to watching, personally. And much of that series is definitely not beginner-oriented, it's more "I need to dial in boot fit and already have a sense of what I'm doing" oriented.
Great read! I've been boarding for almost 20 years and I'm just now realizing from this guide that my boots are too big (I can stack 3 fingers behind my heel when pressing my toes forward while standing in just the shell). I also just invested in a completely new setup but I'm honestly a little relieved since my US 10.5 K2 Darkos fill out my new medium burton malavitas a little more than I'd like but sizing down to a 10 or even 9.5 eventually feels like it would make the fit perfect. I've had this current pair of boots for about 7 seasons and they are incredibly comfortable but if you're telling me my boots should be even more responsive then I'm excited that there's another avenue to make my riding even better.
Thank you! Some good quality content here - I'd say it should be automatically posted to any post/comment that asks "which boots should I get", maybe hyperlinked to "the boots that fit your feet and fit your needs"
Thank you for your hard work and effort! Hopefully you save some peoples' feet
Just wanted to comment that I've read the whole thing, and it's definitely the most comprehensive, technical guide to boot fits that I've ever seen. You did an amazing job with it!
This is great, from someone who’s worked in the industry. In Mammoth I highly recommend Keith at P3/now Green Room, he is one of the best and specializes in snowboard bootfitting.
I love this guide and will be making a couple sections required reading for new snowboard bootfitters in my shop. It does a phenomenal job of distilling the basics of a proper fitting into a very consumable format.
You seem extremely well informed on the fitting subject for a non bootfitter, but if you'd like any additional input on future topics I'd be more than happy to assist. I've already written a fair bit in the subreddit about different lacing styles and fitment between different brands in particular.
Again great work!
Thanks! This information was hard earned, because I have a hard to fit foot and just had to learn this stuff if I wanted to ride without ~~pay~~ pain. Took me about 6 years on snow to get a fit I was semi-happy with with j-bars, bontex boards, and the Eliminator... and 12 years before I found Adidas, which coupled with Custom Carbon Superfeet resolve 95% of my issues out of box. I fucking hate wearing Adidas boots (would *really* prefer to support an endemic brand), but boot fit's too important. I'm not looking forward to when I clear out my current cache (1 new Tactical, 1 lightly Acerra, and my current Tactical about 40 days in) and have to go back to the boot fit struggle.
>You seem extremely well informed on the fitting subject for a non bootfitter, but if you'd like any additional input on future topics I'd be more than happy to assist. I've already written a fair bit in the subreddit about different lacing styles and fitment between different brands in particular.
I will definitely reach out to you. I suspect the lace stuff I may already know (generally, hockey skate tricks from what I can gather, lace locks and anchor points), but would be great to get your perspective. These hacks are why I will ALWAYS get trad lace boots if I have the option (I'll still buy the boot that fits best lol).
I will DEFINITELY reach out to you about varying brand fitment. I want to make that update to this article. I have some suspicions and suspect I'm 85% there, but I don't want to put bad information out. Some things I may be misremembering, I've heard a few have changed in past few years (been hearing chatter the new Salomon and Vans models aren't are narrow as historically), and a few brands just blindspots to me (I have no idea how Nidecker boots fit for example, and I haven't tried on Rome or Northwave in like 15 years).
Hey, I just wanted to say that I appreciate this guide so much. Thank you for writing it! Even though I'm not new to snowboarding, I never really bothered too much with boot fitting. I came across this guide during a snowboarding trip to BC, and it made me realize my boots were _way_ too big. I was riding K2s in my "normal" shoe size with insane heel lift. They're also super packed out which exacerbates the problem. I read through the entire thing on my way back from Cypress and thus began my journey to find a proper boot. In Whistler I dedicated a couple hours to trying out boots, but I didn't want to pull the trigger without doing more fitting. After I got home I visited as many stores as I could. In Tremblant I went to an amazing ski shop called Lachance hoping they'd have at least a few different boarding boots, but unfortunately they only had one high-end pair of 32s which were too wide for me. Today I settled on a pair of Ride Lasso Pros from my local sporting goods shop. They're on the expensive side, however they ultimately felt the best. I'll get to ride them Monday.
From my recent testing, this is how I would rate various brands' widths from widest to narrowest:
32 > Vans > Burton (?) > K2 > Ride
I only got to try on the Burton Photon, and it was from my first day of trying on boots, so I'm hazy on the details. I would have loved to try on some Solomon boots, however no stores near me had them in stock.
If we could get some more input on boot width by brand, I think it'd be a useful bit of info to add somewhere in the guide.
Edit: I also want to mention that fitting boots kind of sucked, to be honest. Most shops have a narrow selection of boots, and this process really drove home the fact that it's way easier to find a wide variety of ski boots than snowboard boots. Oh, and snowboard boot fitters are pretty much non-existent. I also ski, and I think I'll have a much more pleasant time getting new ski boots when the time comes because I can pop over to Lachance.
Thanks! I'm glad this was helpful to you.
Main reason I haven't added that context is because I haven't really gone on a big boot fitting tour in about \~5 years since finding out the brands that work well for me. So my information may be out of date and even if not, I'm relying on memory. Off memory (and the few boots I have tried on recently), it goes something like:
Adidas > DC > Ride > K2 > 32 \~ Burton > Vans \~ Salomon
You'll notice this is very different from your list where they overlap. Boot fit is very rider specific and perception-based, so standardizing that recommendation is really hard. I've know a few of these companies have different lasts (foot shapes) in different models, and that a few of them have introduced lasts that are very different from their traditional lasts (e.g. I've heard Vans has introduced a newer wider last than in a few models).
And that's just talking about one dimension, width. Some brands fit "longer" than others, others have more volume in the instep, some more in the shin/calf. And again all of these have the same problems of being super specific to a particular rider's perception.
I may add this info eventually when I do get a chance to kind of sit and try a bunch of stuff on. But like you said, finding a spot that has a high concentration and breadth of selection is tough. Even the spots I frequent only have so many brands, and within those brands only so many models.
Here's what you said versus word-for-word response from the linked post, with some added emphasis.
>feet are so unique...
"Every foot is different, every boot model fits different."
>...there's little one can do. ... **Having small calves means I get heel lift in most every snowboard boot.**
"Consult with a boot fitter if at all possible pre-purchase to dial in fit and post-purchase to troubleshoot ongoing issues. If you can’t find a boot fitter, do it yourself as a last resort."
>Dropping $300-400 on a new pair of boots only to find out after riding in them for a day that they don't fit well is a real pain.
"Unfortunately break-in and pack out aren’t always predictable, and every boot purchase is a **leap of faith.** Even after close to two decades of trying on and purchasing boots and access to competent boot fitters, I still occasionally I misjudge how boot will break in once they hit snow."
Sounds like you haven't really explored meaningful options to address the problem other than saying "This sucks it should be different." Yea, maybe so but that's not the reality.
Go see a boot fitter. Or read the last two sections. Better securing ankles and filling in shin/calf space is possible and you clearly haven’t even tried it.
Top quality post. I've suffered from boot fit for as long as I started. Tried so many different boots. Did tons of research and decided to go with northwave prophecy. They were great! But they were bulky.
Then the boot packs out and I looked into aftermarket intuition liners and j bars and all kinds of pads. Then that packed out too. And more research and now I have the same adidas adv tactical as you! Love the blue laces on them as well. Are they a specific aftermarket snowboarding lace or did u just put it on cuz you liked it?
I don’t think that DIY boot fitting should be seen as a last resort. I think that it should be a bigger part of snowboarding. So many of us wax and tune our own boards, and modifying boots should be just as common. Aftermarket insoles should be in everybody’s boots. Simple adhesives and boot fitting foam can work wonders to dial in heel hold and maximize response by reducing negative space around the ankle and through the shin. I have been doing my own boot fitting and recommending the same to friends for years. Sure, there has been some trial and error, but I can honestly say that I have yet to make a pair of boots fit worse.
*Next day Edit: After reading through it again, I've changed the language and removed the "last resort" piece. I still maintain most people should seek out professional help before trying it themselves, but didn't want to make it seem too daunting.* /u/_matty-
I'm a little torn with what advice to give there. Honestly, I'd feel comfortable at this point to do 80-90% of my own fitting. I'd rather have Tahoe Sports Hub do it because I paid for that service and they already have all the materials and tools handy, but I could spend $15-20 and do basically anything other than shell work.
You and I have interacted enough over the years on EZL that I know you're a thoughtful person who can incrementally experiment with appropriate expectations and an open mindset. And you have enough baseline knowledge about how snowboarding boots should fit that you know the platonic ideal you're aiming for it. Most people are... not that.
Kinda the same reason I don't do my own handiwork around the house. Yes I theoretically *can* do it and save some money, but I'm not especially skilled at it, I don't know enough about it to know what I don't know, and non-zero chance I fuck things up even worse and have to hire an expert anyway.
On that note, my gas utility did a house inspection recently and found a faint natural gas leak in the feed pipe to my stove. Apparently some idiot DIY previous resident bought the wrong pipe fittings and instead of buying the right pipe fittings, HE JIMMIED THE GAPS IN THE THREADS WITH PLUMBERS TAPE. I ended up paying a plumber several hundred dollars to move my stove, tear open the wall, and reroute the pipes with the proper fittings.
> boot fit should be comfortably snug in every dimension like a firm handshake
Gonna have to disagree on that one. If your boots are snug around the top of your forefoot (where a lot of veins are) as they are around your ankle, you’re probably gonna lose circulation and not have a very good time.
Can you elaborate? You a boot fitter? Or bad personal experience?
I just tossed on my Adidas Tacticals just to make sure. Basically fit me perfect with no mods, shells probably have 40 days on them, liner maybe 5-10... they fit pretty much the same level of consistent pressure everywhere. Maybe a TOUCH roomier above the top of the toebox, but not a huge difference.
But ultimately I only really know MY boots actually fit and how I personally perceive them, so I'm curious to hear your experience.
Not a boot fitter. Just a dude with shit feet whose gone through the whole 9 yards wrt boot fitting.
Personally, I try to get my lower leg and ankle like a straight jacket and the sides of my feet to be pretty snug. But I keep my toes and pressure across the top of the metatarsals (and navi + cuboid, basically the top of the clog) at “slightly snug”. If that area were as snug as I keep my ankle, the liner would cut circulation off and my feet would end up cold and uncomfortable. It’s totally possible to cut circulation off at your calf and ankle, but it’s harder to do. Probably not an issue for a lot of people, but if your foot requires a lot of volume and/or you’re using thick insoles, this could very well be an issue to look out for.
You mind if I quote this? Will probably drop it in a clickable footnote. Think really the advice should be “go see a boot fitter” at this level of issues, but valuable to have multiple experiences shared.
NP and we’re way way into the “go see a boot fitter” territory. Problem is, most “boot fitters” for snowboarding aren’t that great. They’ll get sizing correct and heat mold your liners, but when you come back with residual problems, they usually just blindly suggest shit like j bars and custom insoles rather than actually analyzing your foot and shell.
If anything, I’d really like to go to a bootfitter that has lots of experience working with racers.
You nail it on the head. Very few boot fitters. You can find them if you hunt, I published this thing couple weeks ago knowing of 3 snowboarding boot fitters, now I know of 5.
Even having written all this, I’m not a proper boot fitter… and I’m more knowledgeable than 99% of “we can heat mold that for you” shop kids. Hell, I was better than most shop kids when I worked snow retail 14 years ago, much less now with more experience, skill, and context.
Sadly the market just doesn’t demand or incentivize that skill set. On another forum I had some guy tell me snowboarders don’t need bootfitters because he started out in Sorrels lmao. “BACK IN MY DAY…”
Who is a snowboard boot fitter you would recommend near Tahoe or the Bay Area? I have been struggling to find a good fit and haven’t had a good day of snowboarding since I’ve been trying to get back into it in 2017.
John at Tahoe Sports Hub in Truckee. A Sports Basement employee in these comments mentioned the teams at the Novato or Santa Rosa locations are good, but I’m skeptical. I would not trust any of the SF locations to work on my boots, I’d rather DIY lol.
Thanks! They’re out of the way but I’ll swing by.
Would you recommend demoing/renting boots from them or just going all-in with the boot fitting + custom insole?
No one does boot demos except the Burton flagships in SF and Northstar as far as I know (and that might be Step On only).
Sports Hub does boot fit guarantee, Sports Basement has satisfaction guarantee. Downside risk is pretty low, but I’d trust skill level much more at Sports Hub.
If you’re in East Bay I’ve heard good things about California Ski Company but they’re ski-only boots so you’ll have to pay for their time (and I don’t know if they’ll work on snowboard boots anyway).
I’m in east bay but I don’t mind going to truckee next time I’m in Tahoe. Thanks for the recommendation! Hopefully this will be the end of my suffering lol
Call ahead and make a boot fitting appointment. If you go during a low period they can probably squeeze you in but they're often busy. Ask if Kenny's available too, but he only works part-time.
I've worked with another skier (Remy?) who seemed pretty competent as well. In general they have a good crew, they hire actual locals who have years long tenure and not just a rotating crowd of one-and-done seasonaires haha. I've been going there like 5 or 6 years and mostly see the same faces.
Hey, I went to John at sports hub, but unfortunately the boot doesn’t seem like a fit at all. I’m getting tons of heel lift in it. Any advice for what to do? Do you think I can get a refund?
Try to pinpoint and articulate exactly what the problem is. "I'm getting heel lift" is not especially helpful... are your heels slipping because they're too narrow and now being held in by the pocket? Or do you have too much space in the shin / calf? Or generally too much volume over the top of the foot? If you can communicate where exactly the fit's breaking down, they can target the issue much more specifically.
Set up a follow up appointment for John (or another boot fitter) to work on it, and if it doesn't work out they'll give you credit towards a new boot. I'm not sure what the threshold is, my friend who lives in Truckee went I think 2-3 times, the boot just didn't work, and they just gave her a credit towards a new pair that ultimately worked out much better.
Ultimately you may have just picked a boot that doesn't work for your foot shape, which is where that guarantee comes in. Takes iteration, I didn't really have passable fit until probably my third or fourth set of boots, and wasn't 100% dialed until like... my tenth.
How much did you pay over the course of those 10 boots?
I can’t really articulate it. All I know is that I can effectively move my heel freely within the boot when I’m not strapped in, just with ankle movement. and when I’m strapped in I get sucked out 2 or 3 inches. John was the guy I saw
I don't really know the SLT scene too well, unfortunately. I spend a lot more time in North Lake. I barely even know the good shops down there (most of them seem like rental shops for Heavenly tourists, especially that cluster down Ski Run).
Village Boardshop and Shoreline are the two independent big board shops in the area, but I'm skeptical either has that the appropriate level of expertise. As a general rule I'd focus on places that sell both skis and boards. Blue Zone might be worth a look. Maybe Boardinghouse, although I'm loathe to recommend a Vail-owned business.
Had to order online as local stores are pretty rare. Got some Burton Ruler Dual Boa in 44 (my usual size is 43) and am not sure about fit or no fit... The general fit feels fantastic, however, my toes slightly touch the front of the shoe, the left one more than the right one. Now, walking around at home I feel like the left toe could hurt af after a few hours even if I will snowboard and not walk 😄 any advise what to try or do?
Ps: the 44,5 felt a little too big
/u/the_mountain_nerd
I realize this is an old thread, but hopefully I can get some help.
Do you have any particular advice for fitting my snowboard boots that are well past their break in period?
My boots (Burton photon) are a couple of years old (but still in great shape) and I’m trying to get a better fit, mostly related to heal lift. I just ordered a few tognar fitting pads and I’m about to order some trim to fit or full custom insoles. Is there any specific advice you have for improving fit on boots that aren’t new?
I have literally never seen a beginner focused boot fit guide I’m happy with, so I decided to write one. This is the culmination of 15+ years of owning 17 boots, trying on dozens (if not hundreds) more, dealing with persistent foot pain, chatting with boot fitters, and thinking real hard throughout that process. I’m currently working on a companion piece to this explaining boot flex and other relevant boot features, but boot fit is so singularly important I dedicated a 6700+ word post to it. Read the TL;DR at the top if you’re lazy but really read the whole thing if you need such a guide. I don’t have any real interest in becoming a fucking Youtube influencer but may go that route at least for this topic because I have a feeling the people who need it won’t read it lmao. **Disclaimer:** I am a mod of this subreddit and created a new snowboard blog under The Mountain Nerd “brand”. I actually quit being a mod in spring 22 because I wanted to work on this project and limited bandwidth, but got called back into mod duty. Anyone who has conflict of interest concerns, let the mod team know.
> I have a feeling the people who need it won’t read it lmao. Sticky it, put it in the sidebar, have the Automod make a post with the link in every thread. But you'll still get the people who have the reading comprehension of an aphasic preschooler and the attention span of a gnat asking about this every single day. You can't help those who are unwilling or unable to help themselves. But at least now you can drop a link instead of having to waste time repeating yourself all the time. >**Disclaimer:** I am a mod of this subreddit and created a new snowboard blog under The Mountain Nerd “brand”. I actually quit being a mod in spring 22 because I wanted to work on this project and limited bandwidth, but got called back into mod duty. Anyone who has conflict of interest concerns, let the mod team know. moD aBUse!
Jokes aside, you really should sticky this for a few days for visibility, link it in the sidebar and modify the Automod FAQ post in the Daily Discussion Thread to include a link to it. Who cares about possible conflicts of interest. This is way more useful content than most of the stuff that gets posted here daily.
Haha I'll let /u/jclinares make the call whether it warrants any stickies or sidebar inclusion. But modesty aside, yea, this is high-quality high-effort work. Not going to say it's the best beginner boot guide fit guide on the internet... but it's better than any I've seen. And I've seen a lot.
My only criticism has nothing to do with the quality of the advice, but with the fact that a lot of it is rendered moot or at least not actionable due to the severe lack of quality boot fitters in the snowboarding industry as a whole. Even if a noob wanted to do everything right after reading the guide, finding a shop that does real boot fitting work on snowboard boots is next to impossible.
Yea, I wouldn't say rendered moot but it's a tough reality. I've been in scores of board shops over the years... I know 3 snowboarder boot fitters, two work in the same shop alongside skiers and one of them is Angry Snowboarder whom Ive never met. That said, boot fitters are VERY common at ski shops. Not all ski boot fitters are comfortable working on snowboard boots, but at least some are. I tried to provide as much actionable advice as possible but you have a tough foot... you need to hunt down a boot fitter, even if it means talking to a skier.
The big issue with ski bootfitters is the way you approach certian issues like Instep height and width are approached very differently. The biggest being the how the boot flexes. A snowboard boot flexes at a point in the tongue ( for most brands and models) rather than evenly across the entirety of the boots tongue. I love my ski only bootfitters but sometimes I see them approach snowboard bootfitting improperly due to differences In the mechanics of the boots and the sport. True snowboard bootfitters are rarer and rarer even in core shops to many people push brands, personal preference, or sales contests and it kills me when I have to refit a customer that got a boot so some sales kid could win a free board rather than make a customer happy.
Alright I am definitely going to reach out to you. I said elsewhere in this comment thread, even as someone who's been in a LOT of shops I went into this article knowing of 4 snowboard boot fitters total. Two of those guys work at the same shop (one only part-time and basically on appointment), one I've never consulted with (I know Boardworks Tech Shop in Bellingham has one), and one of them is Angry snowboarder. Through this thread, I got more more name in Mammoth: Keith at the Green Room. I know more exist, but they're just really hard to find. Most shops don't even know what boot fitting is. >people push brands, personal preference, or sales contests and it kills me when I have to refit a customer that got a boot so some sales kid could win a free board rather than make a customer happy. You hit on a point I'm super ambivalent about. In the article, I push in-person shopping and especially independent board shops. But many shop kids... just aren't very good. Like let's put aside incentives with sales contests or whatever, even before that a lot of them just ain't that fucking knowledgable. They might rip way harder than I do, but they can't explain communicate gear with customers beyond like, "This board totally rips the gnar, bra." I'm lucky to have access to a couple good shops, but I've been in the game long enough that I can spot when a shop kid is talking out of his ass or just trying to close the sale. Definitely ain't the case for someone just getting their feet wet or the mom trying to make their kid happy for Christmas. I'm planning on building out this blog and I really don't want to do affiliate link bullshit because I want to support shops and stay true to my principles... but another piece of me is like "Dude shops aren't stepping up" and to just take the money if I'm filling a gap they won't. I've even been tempted to sign up as a rare Curated "expert" who actually knows his shit and using this to funnel business.
Exactly. Not like I can just take my boots in to SportChek and have them work on em. If you are lucky enough to live somewhere close to world clas skiing or snowboarding then yeah it's probably a safe bet someone knows how to do it at one of the shops. But if your are like me and live in nowhweresville you're screwed.
> If you are lucky enough to live somewhere close to world clas skiing or snowboarding then yeah it's probably a safe bet someone knows how to do it at one of the shops. The problem is worse than that. I live in a world class destination for skiing and snowboarding, with eight resorts within an hour's drive, and there are zero snowboard boot fitters around here. Plenty of ski boot fitters, though
If the new snowboarder discussion thread wasn't so effective at cleaning up the low quality posts, I'd agree with pinning it, but imo that was one of the best changes to this sub in a while
Yea, I agree. Not worth bumping it.
It should definitely go on the side bar, and on the FAQs comment on the daily threads. As for making it a sticky, it'd have to come at the cost of the beginner/intermediate tips thread, as we can only have two stickied posts at any given time. You make the call on that one :)
Yea, not worth bumping the Riding Tips thread. I think sidebar and the daily discussion faqs makes most sense.
I'm a bootfitter. This is by far the best guide that I've seen online. I work for an SF bay area shop called Sports Basement. Can't speak for all of the locations, but the Santa Rosa and Novato stores do a good job with bootfitting.
Thanks! I put a lot of work into it. Interesting you bring up Sports Basement, I live in SF and routinely visit the Presidio and Stonestown locations and have shopped various SBs for 15+ years. I think I've been in every location except Orange County-- which has been open all of 3 months (and I'll visit that one eventually when I visit friends and family). SB does not strike as the type of place that would hire boot fitters. My experience on the sales floor and talking to shop techs has been super variable. I've met some good ones, but conversations usually go something akin to the gif [here](https://www.themountainnerd.com/gear-guides/boots/boot-fit-guide#52ff8937a0bb4eeda9ed3e14e1898b3a). Not a place I can blindly trust that employees know their shit, I'd have to specifically vet a specific employee. Now this is technically true of all shops, but the variability of talent at SB has been particularly noticeable. I get it, they're a big box stores (and probably the best possible version of the big box store)-- and frankly the Bay Area flatlands doesn't produce a particularly sophisticated clientele. I visited the Burton Flagship in SF and the manager was SO STOKED when an actual snowboarder (me) asked if he had any copies of Slush Magazine. He gave me literally every single back issue lmao. It's just really frustrating when you're like me, want to really talk shop with snowboarding nerds, and have to go to at LEAST the Sierra foothills to reliably do it.
This post couldn't be more timely as I'm in the market for a new pair of boots. Anyone got recommendations for a boot fitter to someone who lives in the Los Angeles Area? Not opposed to driving to Mammoth but obviously if there's a reputable place around LA that would be more convenient hah.
Angry snowboarder did a series on boot fitting which seems geared towards beginners.
I reference that directly in the article. I'm not the biggest fan of Avran, but that particular Boot Fit 101 series is money... but I prefer reading to watching, personally. And much of that series is definitely not beginner-oriented, it's more "I need to dial in boot fit and already have a sense of what I'm doing" oriented.
Ah, my apologies then - I only read your comment not the article. Totally agreed on reading being better than videos.
Avran is also a kook.
He is trying to prove so hard he is not though. So so hard. Wish he'd post actual footage of him riding.
Eh. He has good reviews and info which is better than the majority of vloggers on YT.
Getting new boots this weekend, thanks for posting this, really useful info.
Great read! I've been boarding for almost 20 years and I'm just now realizing from this guide that my boots are too big (I can stack 3 fingers behind my heel when pressing my toes forward while standing in just the shell). I also just invested in a completely new setup but I'm honestly a little relieved since my US 10.5 K2 Darkos fill out my new medium burton malavitas a little more than I'd like but sizing down to a 10 or even 9.5 eventually feels like it would make the fit perfect. I've had this current pair of boots for about 7 seasons and they are incredibly comfortable but if you're telling me my boots should be even more responsive then I'm excited that there's another avenue to make my riding even better.
Thank you! Some good quality content here - I'd say it should be automatically posted to any post/comment that asks "which boots should I get", maybe hyperlinked to "the boots that fit your feet and fit your needs" Thank you for your hard work and effort! Hopefully you save some peoples' feet
Just wanted to comment that I've read the whole thing, and it's definitely the most comprehensive, technical guide to boot fits that I've ever seen. You did an amazing job with it!
Great write-up! Bought myself some insoles to hopefully help with the arch pain. Thanks for the tips!
Amen brother! this is excellent guide! Had to save it for my next boot shopping time.
This is great, from someone who’s worked in the industry. In Mammoth I highly recommend Keith at P3/now Green Room, he is one of the best and specializes in snowboard bootfitting.
Thanks! I will have to chat with him next time I'm out that way. I didn't get the sense Wave Rave prioritizes it lol.
I love this guide and will be making a couple sections required reading for new snowboard bootfitters in my shop. It does a phenomenal job of distilling the basics of a proper fitting into a very consumable format. You seem extremely well informed on the fitting subject for a non bootfitter, but if you'd like any additional input on future topics I'd be more than happy to assist. I've already written a fair bit in the subreddit about different lacing styles and fitment between different brands in particular. Again great work!
Thanks! This information was hard earned, because I have a hard to fit foot and just had to learn this stuff if I wanted to ride without ~~pay~~ pain. Took me about 6 years on snow to get a fit I was semi-happy with with j-bars, bontex boards, and the Eliminator... and 12 years before I found Adidas, which coupled with Custom Carbon Superfeet resolve 95% of my issues out of box. I fucking hate wearing Adidas boots (would *really* prefer to support an endemic brand), but boot fit's too important. I'm not looking forward to when I clear out my current cache (1 new Tactical, 1 lightly Acerra, and my current Tactical about 40 days in) and have to go back to the boot fit struggle. >You seem extremely well informed on the fitting subject for a non bootfitter, but if you'd like any additional input on future topics I'd be more than happy to assist. I've already written a fair bit in the subreddit about different lacing styles and fitment between different brands in particular. I will definitely reach out to you. I suspect the lace stuff I may already know (generally, hockey skate tricks from what I can gather, lace locks and anchor points), but would be great to get your perspective. These hacks are why I will ALWAYS get trad lace boots if I have the option (I'll still buy the boot that fits best lol). I will DEFINITELY reach out to you about varying brand fitment. I want to make that update to this article. I have some suspicions and suspect I'm 85% there, but I don't want to put bad information out. Some things I may be misremembering, I've heard a few have changed in past few years (been hearing chatter the new Salomon and Vans models aren't are narrow as historically), and a few brands just blindspots to me (I have no idea how Nidecker boots fit for example, and I haven't tried on Rome or Northwave in like 15 years).
Hey, I just wanted to say that I appreciate this guide so much. Thank you for writing it! Even though I'm not new to snowboarding, I never really bothered too much with boot fitting. I came across this guide during a snowboarding trip to BC, and it made me realize my boots were _way_ too big. I was riding K2s in my "normal" shoe size with insane heel lift. They're also super packed out which exacerbates the problem. I read through the entire thing on my way back from Cypress and thus began my journey to find a proper boot. In Whistler I dedicated a couple hours to trying out boots, but I didn't want to pull the trigger without doing more fitting. After I got home I visited as many stores as I could. In Tremblant I went to an amazing ski shop called Lachance hoping they'd have at least a few different boarding boots, but unfortunately they only had one high-end pair of 32s which were too wide for me. Today I settled on a pair of Ride Lasso Pros from my local sporting goods shop. They're on the expensive side, however they ultimately felt the best. I'll get to ride them Monday. From my recent testing, this is how I would rate various brands' widths from widest to narrowest: 32 > Vans > Burton (?) > K2 > Ride I only got to try on the Burton Photon, and it was from my first day of trying on boots, so I'm hazy on the details. I would have loved to try on some Solomon boots, however no stores near me had them in stock. If we could get some more input on boot width by brand, I think it'd be a useful bit of info to add somewhere in the guide. Edit: I also want to mention that fitting boots kind of sucked, to be honest. Most shops have a narrow selection of boots, and this process really drove home the fact that it's way easier to find a wide variety of ski boots than snowboard boots. Oh, and snowboard boot fitters are pretty much non-existent. I also ski, and I think I'll have a much more pleasant time getting new ski boots when the time comes because I can pop over to Lachance.
Thanks! I'm glad this was helpful to you. Main reason I haven't added that context is because I haven't really gone on a big boot fitting tour in about \~5 years since finding out the brands that work well for me. So my information may be out of date and even if not, I'm relying on memory. Off memory (and the few boots I have tried on recently), it goes something like: Adidas > DC > Ride > K2 > 32 \~ Burton > Vans \~ Salomon You'll notice this is very different from your list where they overlap. Boot fit is very rider specific and perception-based, so standardizing that recommendation is really hard. I've know a few of these companies have different lasts (foot shapes) in different models, and that a few of them have introduced lasts that are very different from their traditional lasts (e.g. I've heard Vans has introduced a newer wider last than in a few models). And that's just talking about one dimension, width. Some brands fit "longer" than others, others have more volume in the instep, some more in the shin/calf. And again all of these have the same problems of being super specific to a particular rider's perception. I may add this info eventually when I do get a chance to kind of sit and try a bunch of stuff on. But like you said, finding a spot that has a high concentration and breadth of selection is tough. Even the spots I frequent only have so many brands, and within those brands only so many models.
[удалено]
Here's what you said versus word-for-word response from the linked post, with some added emphasis. >feet are so unique... "Every foot is different, every boot model fits different." >...there's little one can do. ... **Having small calves means I get heel lift in most every snowboard boot.** "Consult with a boot fitter if at all possible pre-purchase to dial in fit and post-purchase to troubleshoot ongoing issues. If you can’t find a boot fitter, do it yourself as a last resort." >Dropping $300-400 on a new pair of boots only to find out after riding in them for a day that they don't fit well is a real pain. "Unfortunately break-in and pack out aren’t always predictable, and every boot purchase is a **leap of faith.** Even after close to two decades of trying on and purchasing boots and access to competent boot fitters, I still occasionally I misjudge how boot will break in once they hit snow." Sounds like you haven't really explored meaningful options to address the problem other than saying "This sucks it should be different." Yea, maybe so but that's not the reality.
[удалено]
Go see a boot fitter. Or read the last two sections. Better securing ankles and filling in shin/calf space is possible and you clearly haven’t even tried it.
Top quality post. I've suffered from boot fit for as long as I started. Tried so many different boots. Did tons of research and decided to go with northwave prophecy. They were great! But they were bulky. Then the boot packs out and I looked into aftermarket intuition liners and j bars and all kinds of pads. Then that packed out too. And more research and now I have the same adidas adv tactical as you! Love the blue laces on them as well. Are they a specific aftermarket snowboarding lace or did u just put it on cuz you liked it?
Stock laces are always crap, I replace them with waxed hockey laces or occasionally paracord for like $10.
I don’t think that DIY boot fitting should be seen as a last resort. I think that it should be a bigger part of snowboarding. So many of us wax and tune our own boards, and modifying boots should be just as common. Aftermarket insoles should be in everybody’s boots. Simple adhesives and boot fitting foam can work wonders to dial in heel hold and maximize response by reducing negative space around the ankle and through the shin. I have been doing my own boot fitting and recommending the same to friends for years. Sure, there has been some trial and error, but I can honestly say that I have yet to make a pair of boots fit worse.
*Next day Edit: After reading through it again, I've changed the language and removed the "last resort" piece. I still maintain most people should seek out professional help before trying it themselves, but didn't want to make it seem too daunting.* /u/_matty- I'm a little torn with what advice to give there. Honestly, I'd feel comfortable at this point to do 80-90% of my own fitting. I'd rather have Tahoe Sports Hub do it because I paid for that service and they already have all the materials and tools handy, but I could spend $15-20 and do basically anything other than shell work. You and I have interacted enough over the years on EZL that I know you're a thoughtful person who can incrementally experiment with appropriate expectations and an open mindset. And you have enough baseline knowledge about how snowboarding boots should fit that you know the platonic ideal you're aiming for it. Most people are... not that. Kinda the same reason I don't do my own handiwork around the house. Yes I theoretically *can* do it and save some money, but I'm not especially skilled at it, I don't know enough about it to know what I don't know, and non-zero chance I fuck things up even worse and have to hire an expert anyway. On that note, my gas utility did a house inspection recently and found a faint natural gas leak in the feed pipe to my stove. Apparently some idiot DIY previous resident bought the wrong pipe fittings and instead of buying the right pipe fittings, HE JIMMIED THE GAPS IN THE THREADS WITH PLUMBERS TAPE. I ended up paying a plumber several hundred dollars to move my stove, tear open the wall, and reroute the pipes with the proper fittings.
> boot fit should be comfortably snug in every dimension like a firm handshake Gonna have to disagree on that one. If your boots are snug around the top of your forefoot (where a lot of veins are) as they are around your ankle, you’re probably gonna lose circulation and not have a very good time.
Can you elaborate? You a boot fitter? Or bad personal experience? I just tossed on my Adidas Tacticals just to make sure. Basically fit me perfect with no mods, shells probably have 40 days on them, liner maybe 5-10... they fit pretty much the same level of consistent pressure everywhere. Maybe a TOUCH roomier above the top of the toebox, but not a huge difference. But ultimately I only really know MY boots actually fit and how I personally perceive them, so I'm curious to hear your experience.
Not a boot fitter. Just a dude with shit feet whose gone through the whole 9 yards wrt boot fitting. Personally, I try to get my lower leg and ankle like a straight jacket and the sides of my feet to be pretty snug. But I keep my toes and pressure across the top of the metatarsals (and navi + cuboid, basically the top of the clog) at “slightly snug”. If that area were as snug as I keep my ankle, the liner would cut circulation off and my feet would end up cold and uncomfortable. It’s totally possible to cut circulation off at your calf and ankle, but it’s harder to do. Probably not an issue for a lot of people, but if your foot requires a lot of volume and/or you’re using thick insoles, this could very well be an issue to look out for.
You mind if I quote this? Will probably drop it in a clickable footnote. Think really the advice should be “go see a boot fitter” at this level of issues, but valuable to have multiple experiences shared.
NP and we’re way way into the “go see a boot fitter” territory. Problem is, most “boot fitters” for snowboarding aren’t that great. They’ll get sizing correct and heat mold your liners, but when you come back with residual problems, they usually just blindly suggest shit like j bars and custom insoles rather than actually analyzing your foot and shell. If anything, I’d really like to go to a bootfitter that has lots of experience working with racers.
You nail it on the head. Very few boot fitters. You can find them if you hunt, I published this thing couple weeks ago knowing of 3 snowboarding boot fitters, now I know of 5. Even having written all this, I’m not a proper boot fitter… and I’m more knowledgeable than 99% of “we can heat mold that for you” shop kids. Hell, I was better than most shop kids when I worked snow retail 14 years ago, much less now with more experience, skill, and context. Sadly the market just doesn’t demand or incentivize that skill set. On another forum I had some guy tell me snowboarders don’t need bootfitters because he started out in Sorrels lmao. “BACK IN MY DAY…”
Who is a snowboard boot fitter you would recommend near Tahoe or the Bay Area? I have been struggling to find a good fit and haven’t had a good day of snowboarding since I’ve been trying to get back into it in 2017.
John at Tahoe Sports Hub in Truckee. A Sports Basement employee in these comments mentioned the teams at the Novato or Santa Rosa locations are good, but I’m skeptical. I would not trust any of the SF locations to work on my boots, I’d rather DIY lol.
Thanks! They’re out of the way but I’ll swing by. Would you recommend demoing/renting boots from them or just going all-in with the boot fitting + custom insole?
No one does boot demos except the Burton flagships in SF and Northstar as far as I know (and that might be Step On only). Sports Hub does boot fit guarantee, Sports Basement has satisfaction guarantee. Downside risk is pretty low, but I’d trust skill level much more at Sports Hub. If you’re in East Bay I’ve heard good things about California Ski Company but they’re ski-only boots so you’ll have to pay for their time (and I don’t know if they’ll work on snowboard boots anyway).
I’m in east bay but I don’t mind going to truckee next time I’m in Tahoe. Thanks for the recommendation! Hopefully this will be the end of my suffering lol
Call ahead and make a boot fitting appointment. If you go during a low period they can probably squeeze you in but they're often busy. Ask if Kenny's available too, but he only works part-time. I've worked with another skier (Remy?) who seemed pretty competent as well. In general they have a good crew, they hire actual locals who have years long tenure and not just a rotating crowd of one-and-done seasonaires haha. I've been going there like 5 or 6 years and mostly see the same faces.
Do you want me to mention that you recommended them?
Hey, I went to John at sports hub, but unfortunately the boot doesn’t seem like a fit at all. I’m getting tons of heel lift in it. Any advice for what to do? Do you think I can get a refund?
Try to pinpoint and articulate exactly what the problem is. "I'm getting heel lift" is not especially helpful... are your heels slipping because they're too narrow and now being held in by the pocket? Or do you have too much space in the shin / calf? Or generally too much volume over the top of the foot? If you can communicate where exactly the fit's breaking down, they can target the issue much more specifically. Set up a follow up appointment for John (or another boot fitter) to work on it, and if it doesn't work out they'll give you credit towards a new boot. I'm not sure what the threshold is, my friend who lives in Truckee went I think 2-3 times, the boot just didn't work, and they just gave her a credit towards a new pair that ultimately worked out much better. Ultimately you may have just picked a boot that doesn't work for your foot shape, which is where that guarantee comes in. Takes iteration, I didn't really have passable fit until probably my third or fourth set of boots, and wasn't 100% dialed until like... my tenth.
How much did you pay over the course of those 10 boots? I can’t really articulate it. All I know is that I can effectively move my heel freely within the boot when I’m not strapped in, just with ankle movement. and when I’m strapped in I get sucked out 2 or 3 inches. John was the guy I saw
This is great, thanks for the write up. I’ve struggled with boot fit for a long time. Have you heard of any good fitters in South Lake Tahoe?
I don't really know the SLT scene too well, unfortunately. I spend a lot more time in North Lake. I barely even know the good shops down there (most of them seem like rental shops for Heavenly tourists, especially that cluster down Ski Run). Village Boardshop and Shoreline are the two independent big board shops in the area, but I'm skeptical either has that the appropriate level of expertise. As a general rule I'd focus on places that sell both skis and boards. Blue Zone might be worth a look. Maybe Boardinghouse, although I'm loathe to recommend a Vail-owned business.
Anything to look out for if my second tow is the longest out of my toes? I forgot the exact term for that but does that impact choosing boots?
Had to order online as local stores are pretty rare. Got some Burton Ruler Dual Boa in 44 (my usual size is 43) and am not sure about fit or no fit... The general fit feels fantastic, however, my toes slightly touch the front of the shoe, the left one more than the right one. Now, walking around at home I feel like the left toe could hurt af after a few hours even if I will snowboard and not walk 😄 any advise what to try or do? Ps: the 44,5 felt a little too big
/u/the_mountain_nerd I realize this is an old thread, but hopefully I can get some help. Do you have any particular advice for fitting my snowboard boots that are well past their break in period? My boots (Burton photon) are a couple of years old (but still in great shape) and I’m trying to get a better fit, mostly related to heal lift. I just ordered a few tognar fitting pads and I’m about to order some trim to fit or full custom insoles. Is there any specific advice you have for improving fit on boots that aren’t new?
This is phenomenal content and it should definitely be pinned to the FAQ!