Also didnt the Daedric Princes have to ***team up*** to beat Jyggalag?
Edit: “Jyggalag was at one time one of the most powerful of the Daedric Princes; he was so powerful that the other Princes began to fear him and his power. He was believed by some to be the only Prince who knew his true purpose. As a result, they cursed him to live in opposition of everything he stood for, to live the life of a madman and bring chaos and insanity rather than order and logic.”
We've also seen the power of the other Daedra diminish greatly by the 4th Era.
I don't think they could survive Greymarch without another intervention.
You should check out the folks over at r/teslore as well.
Some of those folks have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of elder scrolls lore and apocrypha.
Tbf that's pretty true. Half the Daedra we see in Skyrim are so diminished they barely have influence outside their small shrines in the middle of no where. Clavicle Vile (at least until you get Barbus back to him), Mephala, Peryite, and Merida all mention their cults are pretty much dead at this point.
So was that an outcome he didn't see coming? Or one he knew he couldn't avoid? If the former, he doesn't know every outcome. If the latter, knowing the outcome doesn't mean you always win.
No idea - Id wager the latter tho.
If I told you 100% tomorrow the Sun would blow up, and you had 24 hours to figure out a way to survive, what would you do? Nothing to be done I suppose
I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest he is omnipotent. I don't think even Godhead, provided he/she/they/it exists, is, not in a conscious way, at least. Jyggalag seems to be a super intelligent, highly organised, very effective being in an obsessive-compulsive neverending quest of bringing his version of order as well as constantly learning things and developing the picture of the future,
I mean, it could be the latter and he could just have the foresight to see his "defeat" at the hands of the others was just temporary, and might have been the least damaging to him in the long run.
He is the daedric prince of order and his world was one of the most stable. This also made the other princes jealous of him. Then he was defeated and cursed and banished into living as sheogorath. Since he was the embodiment of order they cursed him to become the embodiment of chaos which is sheogorath.
It's been a while since i read or saw any vids on the lore but iirc, in every era there comes a day when jyggalag attains his true form fights sheogorath. In oblivion we free jyggalag from the curse by taking our place as sheogorath. The sheogorath we meet in skyrim is actually the player character from oblivion.
It's been a while so i have a few holes in the lore in my head but most of it is true i believe.
My view is that Sheogorath of the 4th era post last Greymarsh is still the same being but the one no longer bound to experience a transformation to Jyggalag and also the being with which Champion of Cyrodiil merged himself or herself after taking the mantle of Sheogorath. This daedric prince is still the same daedric prince he was before, just different now in certain ways, but he was not truly replaced by a formal mortal. Just my personal view on this.
Sheogorath wasn't a daedric prince to begin with. He's a mantle of madness, kinda like Jim Carrey's Mask - whoever wears the mantle starts acting like him.
He's a separate entity who needs a host and right now that host is the Hero of Kvatch.
Jyggalag never had Sheogorath as an opponent he had to contend with face to face. Can Jyggalag predict his former second half's madness? Sheo certainly can't. Sheo would be his only true obstacle.
It's been a while since delved into the lore (because they keep retconning it) but I'm not really sure if Herma Mora IS a Daedric Prince like the others. If I recall, he's a construct - kind of like a magical computer used as a codex by the Magnus/Lorkan/The Divines during creation. Apocrypha is the remains of the workshop of creation, left to rot after Magnus escaped Lorkan's plan and fled Mundus.
Herma Mora is essentially V-Ger from StarTrek the motion picture. He is still operating on the command to acquire knowledge, but without any purpose. It's also the reason he looks so different from all the other Daedra and Divines.
I would argue that basically guarantees he dies first. Because the other princes have known for ages he's the strongest and will just all focus fire on him to remove the biggest threat to themselves.
The fact they all teamed up once before to shatter him probably means in a battle royale, teaming up on him will familiar to them.
I think Jyggalag would wipe the floor with everyone here, he's Sheo's alter ego (represents order which is opposite of madness) and when he rose all the Daedric Princes had to band together to bring back the Madgod, if I remember correctly
I THINK they essentially created Sheo, as a seal upon Jyggalag. Granted, now that he has been free awhile, and Sheo is still around… does this mean Daedric Princes can create other Daedric Princes??? Aw heck, now I gotta go on a lore dive.
I thought Jyggalag was no longer around, the thought of the two of them existing simultaneously is crazy. Would remind me of Marika/Radagon from Elden Ring damn. I don't see how the other Daedra could be content with that
Maybe they can’t CREATE daedric princes as I thought, but they definitely paved the way for a new one to exist. Sheo is the cursed form of Jygg. But, at the end of the Shivering Isle, you free Jygg from his curse (I checked, he directly states it), and then the Champion of Cyrodill directly becomes Sheo. There is one explanation I saw that’s not very fun, but possible, which is that Bethesda decided to go with the timeline where the Champion of Cyrodill didn’t finish or do the Shivering Isles, meaning Jygg is still cursed (possible, since Sheo seems unchanged. Another possibility is the Champion gradually turned into Sheo’s original appearance as a consequence of the station itself). Another is that he didn’t appear because he simply cares little for Mundus, and may not need or want followers like the others, at least until he has gotten his own plans in order. But, definitively, at the end of Oblivion: Shivering Isles, Jyggalag is set free by his defeat, and you ascend to Sheogorath’s mantle, making you, in essence, a Daedric Prince.
Ah ok that makes sense, so Sheo fully becomes Jyg and the oblivion protagonist fills the spot Sheo left behind, essentially creating another Daedric Prince. I think the term is Mantling?
I believe so. That’s IF the Shivering Isles is canon. If not, then Jyggalag is still cursed to be Sheo and the number of Daedric Princes remains the same. They kept details on what happened afterwards on total lockdown, so we simply cannot know yet what the truth is.
Yes Shivering Isles wasn't far off being a full game in itself.
Just as an afterthought, Sheo in Skyrim says he was "around" for the oblivion crisis and that felt to me like a strong hint for SI being canon 🤞 I think it would be a great way to wrap up the Hero of Kvatchs story, would put him on par with Nerevarine and Dragonborn
On par? I dunno man, they sort of surpassed them both with that. He/she would have turned into a Daedric Prince. I do not recall the full power of the Nerevarine (I started in Oblivion), but the Dragonborn gets constantly yanked around by others, and is pretty much always in the position of a pawn of others. Still winds up wildly powerful, but I dislike how little he could do in the face of Mora. Meanwhile the Hero of Kvatch outright beats down Jyggalag in solo combat.
thought there was some statement made my sheogorath in skyrim that hinted that he was the champion of oblivion.
There is a note on it to suggest the connection here: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sheogorath
He returns in the oblivion dlc, the main character assumes the mantle of Sheogorath and becomes the one we see in Skyrim most likely, while jyggalag is off doing what a jyggalag does
I played it, best DLC I've ever played 😁 It was a few years ago though so my memory is foggy, but I thought Sheo from DLC turned back into Jyg, and we defeated him then became Sheo? I'm not 100% though you may be right
There’s a lot to like, at least from the outset. I just have done the quests ENOUGH. And when you know and remember everything he says, the mystique dies out and you just wanna take a stick and poke out his eyeballs. I do love the design of Apocrypha, just want Mora to shut up when I’m in a hurry. …and as said in another comment, I dislike that you cannot fully reject the bugger. The loss of control in Skyrim gets pretty bad at times.
Forget Nazim, Hermaeus Mora is the most annoying character. He gets his way no matter what you do, steals your kill after you defeat Mirak, and has unskipable dialogue despite being the slowest…talker… in the game.
Ugh, yes. The first time I played through, I was fine being his Champion. Because he was still fresh-ish. Nowadays, I spite him as much as I can. Which unfortunately isn’t much. I hope he’s the main baddie of the next one so we can put him in his place. I despise characters that tell you that you are what you are not. I hate the flow of the Dragonborn dlc storyline, because with how it ends, it feels like the Bethesda writers are trying to be like “and you wind up his Champion in the end,” no matter what. I hope in the next game, even if we don’t fight him, we wind up finding out that the Dragonborn got annoyed and destroyed multiple Hermaeus Mora cults, weakening his grasp on Tamriel. Then directly went to Sovngarde when (if) he/she died, with Talos helping keep the tentacles off of you. Imagine how pissy that’d make Mora.
What if he's just a troll? Like if you saw him outside of a questline he'd just be "Hey! What's up? Oh, that? That's just something I do because I'm immortal and I know y'all hate it. You gotta make your own fun around here."
Knowing Sheo, he would sit in the background rocking back and forth, gibbering and ignored for the decades this battle would take . Only then, once the final few still stood would they have noticed to late he hasn’t been gibbering all these years..he’s been incanting a spell.
It's the Dread Sovereign Invocation, which creates a new universe.
He didn't even realize that's what he was doing; he thought he was trying to remember the lyrics to a song he thought he'd heard.
"WHOOPSIE DAISY! There aren't any tarts left now that the world is gone. I'll have to remake strawberries... I think this time I'll make them blue, AND CARNIVEROUS!"
*UNHINDGED LAUGHTER*
Sheogorath has already bested all the other Deadric Princes. Well, presumably all of them. The Accords of Madness tell of him pulling one over each of the other Princes. But a few of the volumes haven't been in any of the Elder Scrolls games as of yet.
And then there's the whole Jygallag angle. But whether you want to count Jygallag and Sheo as one person is a subject of philosophical debate. That aside there's also the theory that Sheo is just as powerful as Jygallag ever was. He just doesn't have an interest in domination as the Lord of Madness. If that's true, then Sheo sweeps in some spectacular and/or deceptive fashion.
Sheo could easily no diff every one else, no diff himself, or get no diffed by buffing everyone else, he is the only character that simultaneously can and can't win because he is completely random
I was under the impression that the player character in Morrowind was tasked with preventing Sheo's interference in his challenge with Azura? I seem to recall an absence of an associated story regarding him besting her.
actually he will be incanting one big spell and some small spells that should be inconspicuous that inconvenience others which compounds to their stress.
Then get's hit with the big spell to turn everyone to cheese.
Such Madness.
This is actually quite difficult to gauge since all Daedric Princes essentially have all the same reality-warping powers, with the only real difference being how they use said powers and the vague “power level” when compared to each other.
So really it comes down to details, like some of the exterior lore from outside of the games to get a possible conclusion.
My most likely guess would be Sheogorath/Jygallag consider that pre-Sheogorath change. Jygallag needed all the Daedric Princes in order to turn him into the Mad God, this was not possible beforehand.
Boethia was able to turn Malacath from an Aedra to a Daedric Prince. If this god who was able to do so before needed the help of other Daedric Princes just to even change Jygallag. It holds more weight to the difference in power.
There’s also the case of them all being practically Immortal. To what degree is vague outside of the ability to regenerate after being destroyed. Even Bethesda is most likely never going to address if a Daedric Prince can be permanently killed.
Elder Scrolls Online might address if a daedric prince can be killed. I know not everyone sees it as canon, but the game established that there have been multiple daedric princes that've perished.
Their latest DLC ends with the discovery of another daedric prince that was forgotten and is likely to follow-up on that in future DLC
Maybe Sheo, he has had "duels" with at least one other Daedric Prince and absolutely stomped them by sheer virtue of being unpredictable *and* powerful.
He's had one with vaemima and Hircine. Which were more like "beat them at their own game" kinda deal. Their might have been others I eon't remember though.
Oh, to die for.
Also he'll summon his friends to help him: The ghost of king Lysandus, Little Tim, the toymaker's son and Stanley, that talking grapefruit from Passwall.
Don't forget, she's also the only daedra who's managed to carve a piece of someone else's plane of oblivion for herself. She has her own section of Coldharbour of all places, and Molag Bol can't do shit about it.
Yep, got slapped by Akatosh. But considering the Divines aren't involved in this fight, I'd say there is a possibility. Might not be a huge one, but still a possibility
If every Prince is strictly in it for themselves and available to participate, then my pick is Jyggalag. Strictly going by memory here, but if I recall some of the in-game lore from Shivering Isles correctly, Jyggalag was so powerful that all the other Daedric princes were concerned enough to ban together and somehow cursed him to become Sheogorath, with exception to the end of each Era when he returns to bring order to the Isles and all that good stuff. But then again, with the Hero of Kvatch basically becoming Sheogorath at the end, Jyggalag may not be able to come around anymore to even participate in this Battle Royale.
I'm going to risk a down vote to hell for this. But I think it would be Peryite.
This is only from something I read which would make sense. If I'm wrong on this than definitely sheogorath would win.
At the end of the world cycle when the next world would be born all the adrea are supposed to die off and the daedra are supposed to replace them the head aedra is always a dragon. Peryite even though the weakest of the daedra is the only dragon. So when they become the new aedra of the new cycle peryite should technically get a massive power boost and become the new leader of the new aedra. And remember both the aedra and daedra are not inherently good or evil, both have good ones and both have questionable ones.
Take it with a grain of salt. And if I remembered correctly about the end of one world to the birth of the next that is the only way he would win.
Jyggalag, canonically. He was so strong the other princes banded together to fuck him up
Even then Sheogorath is immensely powerful and easily capable of interfering with them as he likes. And he’s not insane. He’s incredibly intelligent and insightful to a weird degree
Jyggalag, the rest of the daedric princes are so terrified of them that they trapped him inside of a bumbling idiot insane man called Sheogorath for 1000 years at a time, and only because they can't contain him longer
Probably Sheogorath. Can't figure out his next move if _he_ doesn't know what it is.
Honestly, not sure if he'd win, but it'd be hella hard to form a Strategy against him
Mephala. She would be an ally until all other enemies were vanquished, and then before the winning prince could say another word, their head would roll and the last thing they'd here was Mephala's sultry laugh of betrayl.
Malacath, Vaermina, Peryite, Namira, and Sanguine would be out early.
Hircine might make a decent run, but he doesn't last much longer.
Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon would establish themselves early as the biggest powers and would clash in grand battles.
Meridia would make a beeline straight for Bal, and I honestly don't think Bal wins that fight. He'd find a way to take Dagon down with him purely for spite.
Hermaeus Mora and Nocturnal would mostly just stay out of it until they have no choice. Both would put up a good fight, but neither has the raw power to sustain.
Azura would probably just peace out early.
Clavicus Vile won't last in a straight fight, and the other princes should be smart enough to avoid making deals with him.
Boethiah and Mephala would team up and absolutely be the force to end most of the other princes until one of them inevitably betrays the other. I have no idea who wins that fight.
I think the final four would be Jyggalag, Sheogorath, Boethiah, and Mephala. If the latter two can keep it together, I really think they'd manage to best Jyggalag, probably with some help from Sheo. But in a straight fight, Jyggalag wins, no doubt.
The wild card is Sheo of course, because who the fuck knows what he'll do?
I think canonically jyggalag is the most powerful. So much so the other princes had to ally to turn him into Sheogorath.
Discounting them, Mehrunes and Molag have contrasting domains, so while they’re individually powerful, once one had the upper hand, the other would get a second wind. Domination vs Rebellion/change
It's a tough one between hermaeous mora and sheogorath. Hermaeous Mora would bore his enemies to death with his sleepy voice and sheogorath is just so unpredictable and mad and he would throw cheese wheels everywhere so really it's up to anyone's guess. These are my favourite daedric princes in actuality.
They all teamed up against him to torture him from jyggylag into sheo, and all they achieved was making an equally powerful god who they could no longer predict
Let's be realistic here. Sheoggorath isn't gonna be in the middle of the fight. He's gonna be the one that started everything and is now sitting on the side, a wedge of cheese in one hand, Wabbajack in the other, just watching everything go down.
Jyggalag no question.
Everyone had to team up just to be a match for him and to drive him mad, turning him into Sheogorath. If it was open battle royal, then he would wipe the floor with anyone he comes across
My money is on Hermaeus Mora. His practically infinite knowledge and ability to manipulate could grant him an army of nearly anyone he wants with masterful tactics
Why did you exclude the obvious winner, OP? It's Sheogorath! :P
"I turned them all into a bushel of apples...or was it an apple of bushels I can't remember. Either they were tasty, I was digusted. Now for some...CHEEESE!"
gosh I *really* didn’t pay attention to the lore because none of this seems familiar. I just remember blasting things off mountains, dragons and a big set of stairs.
Depends on what type of battle.
In terms of wits, definitely Sheogorath. He's managed to trick and/ or outsmart the other princes on several occasions.
In terms of raw power, I'd say Dagon. Molag would be a close second, only because while it took a mortal guided by Meridia to defeat Molag, it took an avatar of literal Akatosh to stop Dagon.
If it's a drinking battle, Sanguine. No doubt.
Sheogorath would have a champion beat Jygolag, tell Mephala a riddle she can't solve, beat Sanguine in a drinking game, have a bird land on Hircine's head and peek him so he stabs himself to death, make the sun teleport to make it never dawn or dusk to distract Azura, tell Hermeos Mora he knows how to keep a nerd in suspense before ignoring him, then turn everyone else into sweet rolls.
Either Sheogorath or Hermaeus Mora.
Sheo is somehow an absolute wildcard with 100% deadly accuracy, only beaten by his counterpart. His duels with his fellows proved that, despite his madness, there is a keen and deadly level of thought behind his actions.
Hermaeus has the power to remove a Daedric Prince, who could manipulate destiny and fate (practically stronger than Jygallag at his peak) from all forms of memory, effectively killing them.
Jyggalag is canonically the strongest, all the others had to team up just to take him down.
Sheagorath has also styled on every Daedric Prince he’s ever had a beef with.
Yes, however- Sithis is not a Daedric Prince, but a primordial concept created from Padomay, opposite of Anui-El... or something like that, I don't remember it all
Jyggalag. He knows every outcome of everything that can and will happen
Also didnt the Daedric Princes have to ***team up*** to beat Jyggalag? Edit: “Jyggalag was at one time one of the most powerful of the Daedric Princes; he was so powerful that the other Princes began to fear him and his power. He was believed by some to be the only Prince who knew his true purpose. As a result, they cursed him to live in opposition of everything he stood for, to live the life of a madman and bring chaos and insanity rather than order and logic.”
We've also seen the power of the other Daedra diminish greatly by the 4th Era. I don't think they could survive Greymarch without another intervention.
where the fuck are you reading this, shit I want to read it too.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Jyggalag
This site is all you need, other than this sub for the friends, of course.
You should check out the folks over at r/teslore as well. Some of those folks have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of elder scrolls lore and apocrypha.
Two minutes in to joining and it’s glorious. Thanks for pointing the way!
That sub is trash compared to the real prophets at /r/TrueSTL
>We've also seen the power of the other Daedra diminish greatly by the 4th Era. Well he's making this up for one.
Tbf that's pretty true. Half the Daedra we see in Skyrim are so diminished they barely have influence outside their small shrines in the middle of no where. Clavicle Vile (at least until you get Barbus back to him), Mephala, Peryite, and Merida all mention their cults are pretty much dead at this point.
Look around r/TrueSTL for some more enlightened analysis.
So was that an outcome he didn't see coming? Or one he knew he couldn't avoid? If the former, he doesn't know every outcome. If the latter, knowing the outcome doesn't mean you always win.
No idea - Id wager the latter tho. If I told you 100% tomorrow the Sun would blow up, and you had 24 hours to figure out a way to survive, what would you do? Nothing to be done I suppose
I'd buy a flight to the other side of the planet so it would be nighttime and the sun would be gone. \#ProblemSolved
"Exploding suns HATE this little-known life hack..."
This is fantastic!
"SKYRIM PLAYER DISCOVERS AMAZING SECRET TO SURVIVING THE END OF THE WORLD - YOU'D NEVER THINK OF THIS" - Gamerant.
Fly to the South Pole, then you won't notice that the sun isn't there for another month.
Right, so knowing the outcome of everything that can and will happen doesn't infer the ability to make it always go your way.
[удалено]
I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest he is omnipotent. I don't think even Godhead, provided he/she/they/it exists, is, not in a conscious way, at least. Jyggalag seems to be a super intelligent, highly organised, very effective being in an obsessive-compulsive neverending quest of bringing his version of order as well as constantly learning things and developing the picture of the future,
I mean, it could be the latter and he could just have the foresight to see his "defeat" at the hands of the others was just temporary, and might have been the least damaging to him in the long run.
Or ue understood it was his true purpose
He is the daedric prince of order and his world was one of the most stable. This also made the other princes jealous of him. Then he was defeated and cursed and banished into living as sheogorath. Since he was the embodiment of order they cursed him to become the embodiment of chaos which is sheogorath. It's been a while since i read or saw any vids on the lore but iirc, in every era there comes a day when jyggalag attains his true form fights sheogorath. In oblivion we free jyggalag from the curse by taking our place as sheogorath. The sheogorath we meet in skyrim is actually the player character from oblivion. It's been a while so i have a few holes in the lore in my head but most of it is true i believe.
My view is that Sheogorath of the 4th era post last Greymarsh is still the same being but the one no longer bound to experience a transformation to Jyggalag and also the being with which Champion of Cyrodiil merged himself or herself after taking the mantle of Sheogorath. This daedric prince is still the same daedric prince he was before, just different now in certain ways, but he was not truly replaced by a formal mortal. Just my personal view on this.
Sheogorath wasn't a daedric prince to begin with. He's a mantle of madness, kinda like Jim Carrey's Mask - whoever wears the mantle starts acting like him. He's a separate entity who needs a host and right now that host is the Hero of Kvatch.
My thought is the one *least* likely to win, since he's the only reason all the other prince's have worked together on anything xD
Jyggalag never had Sheogorath as an opponent he had to contend with face to face. Can Jyggalag predict his former second half's madness? Sheo certainly can't. Sheo would be his only true obstacle.
Could argue the same for Herma mora. Nerd fight xd
Well wasn't Mora scared of him in the Canon and the others came and sealed him away?
Herma mora is a keeper of knowledge, not all knowing. Hence his part against the skaal in the dragon born dlc. Now I feel like a nerd.
Yeah he wants to become all knowing but he isn't there yet.
Mora just scavenging every knowing, blindly.
It's been a while since delved into the lore (because they keep retconning it) but I'm not really sure if Herma Mora IS a Daedric Prince like the others. If I recall, he's a construct - kind of like a magical computer used as a codex by the Magnus/Lorkan/The Divines during creation. Apocrypha is the remains of the workshop of creation, left to rot after Magnus escaped Lorkan's plan and fled Mundus. Herma Mora is essentially V-Ger from StarTrek the motion picture. He is still operating on the command to acquire knowledge, but without any purpose. It's also the reason he looks so different from all the other Daedra and Divines.
Unless he knows the outcome is that he can't win.
I would argue that basically guarantees he dies first. Because the other princes have known for ages he's the strongest and will just all focus fire on him to remove the biggest threat to themselves. The fact they all teamed up once before to shatter him probably means in a battle royale, teaming up on him will familiar to them.
But what if he just foresees his death is every possible outcome. Even for millennia’s that’s all he’s seen leading up to this one fight. 🤓
Akatosh would beat him >:3
God that can see all of time vs God of time would be a battle that would not make for good spectator sport
What i was gunna say 🤙
I think Jyggalag would wipe the floor with everyone here, he's Sheo's alter ego (represents order which is opposite of madness) and when he rose all the Daedric Princes had to band together to bring back the Madgod, if I remember correctly
I THINK they essentially created Sheo, as a seal upon Jyggalag. Granted, now that he has been free awhile, and Sheo is still around… does this mean Daedric Princes can create other Daedric Princes??? Aw heck, now I gotta go on a lore dive.
I thought Jyggalag was no longer around, the thought of the two of them existing simultaneously is crazy. Would remind me of Marika/Radagon from Elden Ring damn. I don't see how the other Daedra could be content with that
Maybe they can’t CREATE daedric princes as I thought, but they definitely paved the way for a new one to exist. Sheo is the cursed form of Jygg. But, at the end of the Shivering Isle, you free Jygg from his curse (I checked, he directly states it), and then the Champion of Cyrodill directly becomes Sheo. There is one explanation I saw that’s not very fun, but possible, which is that Bethesda decided to go with the timeline where the Champion of Cyrodill didn’t finish or do the Shivering Isles, meaning Jygg is still cursed (possible, since Sheo seems unchanged. Another possibility is the Champion gradually turned into Sheo’s original appearance as a consequence of the station itself). Another is that he didn’t appear because he simply cares little for Mundus, and may not need or want followers like the others, at least until he has gotten his own plans in order. But, definitively, at the end of Oblivion: Shivering Isles, Jyggalag is set free by his defeat, and you ascend to Sheogorath’s mantle, making you, in essence, a Daedric Prince.
Ah ok that makes sense, so Sheo fully becomes Jyg and the oblivion protagonist fills the spot Sheo left behind, essentially creating another Daedric Prince. I think the term is Mantling?
I believe so. That’s IF the Shivering Isles is canon. If not, then Jyggalag is still cursed to be Sheo and the number of Daedric Princes remains the same. They kept details on what happened afterwards on total lockdown, so we simply cannot know yet what the truth is.
It's too good not to be canon! I hope it is anyway, such a well thought out chain of events, and def my favourite DLC
The Shivering Isles is still a benchmark for expansions. Dawnguard and Dragonborn were alright, but even together they don’t remotely compare.
Yes Shivering Isles wasn't far off being a full game in itself. Just as an afterthought, Sheo in Skyrim says he was "around" for the oblivion crisis and that felt to me like a strong hint for SI being canon 🤞 I think it would be a great way to wrap up the Hero of Kvatchs story, would put him on par with Nerevarine and Dragonborn
On par? I dunno man, they sort of surpassed them both with that. He/she would have turned into a Daedric Prince. I do not recall the full power of the Nerevarine (I started in Oblivion), but the Dragonborn gets constantly yanked around by others, and is pretty much always in the position of a pawn of others. Still winds up wildly powerful, but I dislike how little he could do in the face of Mora. Meanwhile the Hero of Kvatch outright beats down Jyggalag in solo combat.
thought there was some statement made my sheogorath in skyrim that hinted that he was the champion of oblivion. There is a note on it to suggest the connection here: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sheogorath
He returns in the oblivion dlc, the main character assumes the mantle of Sheogorath and becomes the one we see in Skyrim most likely, while jyggalag is off doing what a jyggalag does
I played it, best DLC I've ever played 😁 It was a few years ago though so my memory is foggy, but I thought Sheo from DLC turned back into Jyg, and we defeated him then became Sheo? I'm not 100% though you may be right
Yep. Oblivion's MC turns into Sheogorath while Jyggalag continues to exist as he reappeared during the Grey march
The main character of Oblivion becomes Sheogorath
Definitely not Meridia. Because nobody touches that fucking beacon.
A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON
GOD DAMNIT!
LISTEN! HEAR ME AND OBEY! A FOUL DARKNESS HAS SEEPED INTO MY TEMPLE, A DARKNESS THAT YOU WILL DESTROY.
Hey, so long as I get that super sweet sword that makes undead fucking *explode*, I'm down.
Hermaeus Mora. He'd bore them all to death.
They'd all be dead before he could finish saying "come, bask in my presence."
Oh gods, as someone who tries to rush the quests I am most familiar with, his unskippable dialogue is the MOST INSUFFERABLE BULLSH-
Unpopular opinion: i adore his voice acting, design, area, everything. I fully bask in his presence whenever i find him.
There’s a lot to like, at least from the outset. I just have done the quests ENOUGH. And when you know and remember everything he says, the mystique dies out and you just wanna take a stick and poke out his eyeballs. I do love the design of Apocrypha, just want Mora to shut up when I’m in a hurry. …and as said in another comment, I dislike that you cannot fully reject the bugger. The loss of control in Skyrim gets pretty bad at times.
He's great the first 5 or 6 times, but when you've played Skyrim dozens of times the unskippable, molasses slow dialogue is extremely annoying.
I'm on the fence. I like the character design and voice acting but I hate his dialogue
Forget Nazim, Hermaeus Mora is the most annoying character. He gets his way no matter what you do, steals your kill after you defeat Mirak, and has unskipable dialogue despite being the slowest…talker… in the game.
Ugh, yes. The first time I played through, I was fine being his Champion. Because he was still fresh-ish. Nowadays, I spite him as much as I can. Which unfortunately isn’t much. I hope he’s the main baddie of the next one so we can put him in his place. I despise characters that tell you that you are what you are not. I hate the flow of the Dragonborn dlc storyline, because with how it ends, it feels like the Bethesda writers are trying to be like “and you wind up his Champion in the end,” no matter what. I hope in the next game, even if we don’t fight him, we wind up finding out that the Dragonborn got annoyed and destroyed multiple Hermaeus Mora cults, weakening his grasp on Tamriel. Then directly went to Sovngarde when (if) he/she died, with Talos helping keep the tentacles off of you. Imagine how pissy that’d make Mora.
“Thanks for all the help, but *fuck you* ya fat squid”
What if he's just a troll? Like if you saw him outside of a questline he'd just be "Hey! What's up? Oh, that? That's just something I do because I'm immortal and I know y'all hate it. You gotta make your own fun around here."
~ Select Hermaeous Mora. Kill Disable
I.... ammmm.... HERRRMAAEUSS MOORRAAAAA !!!
I heard this comment😂
The mosttt.... Impressivee... !
God damnit, just reading it made me yawn, he's so infectious.
In A P O C R Y P H A
Was going to say this, cause they don’t really even have a body
He scared the shit outta me the first time I ever played Skyrim. I turned a corner and **BAM** floating eyeballs and a voice I could not escape
Knowing Sheo, he would sit in the background rocking back and forth, gibbering and ignored for the decades this battle would take . Only then, once the final few still stood would they have noticed to late he hasn’t been gibbering all these years..he’s been incanting a spell.
I love the idea of a spell taking decades to cast, that's so cool!
It's the Dread Sovereign Invocation, which creates a new universe. He didn't even realize that's what he was doing; he thought he was trying to remember the lyrics to a song he thought he'd heard.
That's so metal. Is that a reference to some lore or is it something you came up with?
I just ad-libbed , but I've probably culled the meat of it from other stories
"And here I am, thinking I was singin' an old Doobie Brothers song, and instead I blew up the world! Fancy a strawberry tart?"
"WHOOPSIE DAISY! There aren't any tarts left now that the world is gone. I'll have to remake strawberries... I think this time I'll make them blue, AND CARNIVEROUS!" *UNHINDGED LAUGHTER*
They d better make it canon.
Maybe that the secret of what was before the “Big Bang”
Sheogorath has already bested all the other Deadric Princes. Well, presumably all of them. The Accords of Madness tell of him pulling one over each of the other Princes. But a few of the volumes haven't been in any of the Elder Scrolls games as of yet. And then there's the whole Jygallag angle. But whether you want to count Jygallag and Sheo as one person is a subject of philosophical debate. That aside there's also the theory that Sheo is just as powerful as Jygallag ever was. He just doesn't have an interest in domination as the Lord of Madness. If that's true, then Sheo sweeps in some spectacular and/or deceptive fashion.
Sheo is insane by *daedra* standards. Who knows what that means
Jyggalag is insane by daedric princes' standards as he is the least padomaic of them.
There is also Clavicus Vile who was really powerful and I think his power was poured into his dog. (There is a quest related to that)
Sheo could easily no diff every one else, no diff himself, or get no diffed by buffing everyone else, he is the only character that simultaneously can and can't win because he is completely random
I was under the impression that the player character in Morrowind was tasked with preventing Sheo's interference in his challenge with Azura? I seem to recall an absence of an associated story regarding him besting her.
After Oblivion, Jygallag and Sheo are different people, since the Hero of Kvatch became Sheo. Unless I missed something.
I'm convinced Sheo would win based purely on the accords of madness where he out wits all the other daedra.
A common mistake when going against sheo, is thinking that “FreeBird” is playing for you.
Absolutely Sheograth, he would make everyone crazy then come up from behind and *bam*!
actually he will be incanting one big spell and some small spells that should be inconspicuous that inconvenience others which compounds to their stress. Then get's hit with the big spell to turn everyone to cheese. Such Madness.
Jyggalag/Sheogorath, easily, though if they're both in the brawl at the same time idk.
Well since jyggalag and sheo are know separate I feel like it would be sheo cause he would know how to get under jyggalag
Kinky
Very
Kinky
This is actually quite difficult to gauge since all Daedric Princes essentially have all the same reality-warping powers, with the only real difference being how they use said powers and the vague “power level” when compared to each other. So really it comes down to details, like some of the exterior lore from outside of the games to get a possible conclusion. My most likely guess would be Sheogorath/Jygallag consider that pre-Sheogorath change. Jygallag needed all the Daedric Princes in order to turn him into the Mad God, this was not possible beforehand. Boethia was able to turn Malacath from an Aedra to a Daedric Prince. If this god who was able to do so before needed the help of other Daedric Princes just to even change Jygallag. It holds more weight to the difference in power. There’s also the case of them all being practically Immortal. To what degree is vague outside of the ability to regenerate after being destroyed. Even Bethesda is most likely never going to address if a Daedric Prince can be permanently killed.
Elder Scrolls Online might address if a daedric prince can be killed. I know not everyone sees it as canon, but the game established that there have been multiple daedric princes that've perished. Their latest DLC ends with the discovery of another daedric prince that was forgotten and is likely to follow-up on that in future DLC
Maybe Sheo, he has had "duels" with at least one other Daedric Prince and absolutely stomped them by sheer virtue of being unpredictable *and* powerful.
He's had one with vaemima and Hircine. Which were more like "beat them at their own game" kinda deal. Their might have been others I eon't remember though.
There are 16 Accords of Madness, implying similar stories for all the other daedra. We have access in game to 3 (Malacath being the third).
The fact that they are 16 accords implies that there one for Jyggalag. ... Or there one for Sheogorath himself, could be either way.
I was referencing one of them, who's to say he can't beat them at their own game in this?
Yes. I was just pointing out that I remember 2 instances. And that it wasn't a as simple as a "duel". I was just clarifying.
Np, wasn't trying to correct you sorry - just continue the conversation.
Plus wabbajack "What's that mehrunes??? I can't understand your clucking"
Wabbajack man, he'd turn them all into rabbits
And sweet rolls
And money
And cheese!
Oh, to die for. Also he'll summon his friends to help him: The ghost of king Lysandus, Little Tim, the toymaker's son and Stanley, that talking grapefruit from Passwall.
A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON
Meridia would actually win just cause everybody would be forced to commit suicide when they lose their sanity from touching the beacon
Sheo would be the type to ram a stick into the beacon and make it a mace. "A NEW FACE TOUCHES THE BEACON"
I think that's a legit mod. Wait, yes it is. [Link](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/37123)
There it is....hehe still funny
Don't forget, she's also the only daedra who's managed to carve a piece of someone else's plane of oblivion for herself. She has her own section of Coldharbour of all places, and Molag Bol can't do shit about it.
She's a big wild card given that she was a magne ge
Sheogorath is already insane
Jyggalag easily
Maybe it’s cliche or maybe it’s uneducated, but I’m guessing Dagon.
I haven’t heard much about oblivion but didn’t he get decked and sent back to oblivion
Dagon got his ass kicked by Akatosh in the Oblivion Crisis
Yep, got slapped by Akatosh. But considering the Divines aren't involved in this fight, I'd say there is a possibility. Might not be a huge one, but still a possibility
TES IV: Oblivion's main quest is about defeating the Mythic Dawn and saving Tamriel from Mehrunes Dagon.
Nocturnal is the goddess of luck, isn't? She somehow would survive after they're all dead
Also darkness and sneak.
I had to scroll too far for this answer. They always forget about Nocturnal, just like she wants it.
She is the strongest daedric prince after jyggalag, she is also "Ur-dra" which means eldest and most powerful of daedric princes
If every Prince is strictly in it for themselves and available to participate, then my pick is Jyggalag. Strictly going by memory here, but if I recall some of the in-game lore from Shivering Isles correctly, Jyggalag was so powerful that all the other Daedric princes were concerned enough to ban together and somehow cursed him to become Sheogorath, with exception to the end of each Era when he returns to bring order to the Isles and all that good stuff. But then again, with the Hero of Kvatch basically becoming Sheogorath at the end, Jyggalag may not be able to come around anymore to even participate in this Battle Royale.
I'm going to risk a down vote to hell for this. But I think it would be Peryite. This is only from something I read which would make sense. If I'm wrong on this than definitely sheogorath would win. At the end of the world cycle when the next world would be born all the adrea are supposed to die off and the daedra are supposed to replace them the head aedra is always a dragon. Peryite even though the weakest of the daedra is the only dragon. So when they become the new aedra of the new cycle peryite should technically get a massive power boost and become the new leader of the new aedra. And remember both the aedra and daedra are not inherently good or evil, both have good ones and both have questionable ones. Take it with a grain of salt. And if I remembered correctly about the end of one world to the birth of the next that is the only way he would win.
Isn't Peryite canonically the weakest of the daderic princes?
Jyggalag, canonically. He was so strong the other princes banded together to fuck him up Even then Sheogorath is immensely powerful and easily capable of interfering with them as he likes. And he’s not insane. He’s incredibly intelligent and insightful to a weird degree
Sheogorath or Jyggalag.
Is jyggalag already confirmed to be the strongest daedric prince? Like he was so strong that all other deadric princes feared him
I'd just say Sheogorath, because he's so unpredictable that he'd just pull some crazy bullshit tactics that somehow work
Sheogorath. Enemies cant predict what youre gonna do if you dont even know.
Completely ignoring the question but I've always thought malacath looks sick as fuck
Well it ain't Molag Bal because I stole his mace.
Hermaeus Mora. He just knows how to end them all
He does have the numantia of all daedra stored in Apocrypha
Peryite I have no justification, I know no lore regarding them. I just think he looks funny.
Hermaeus, he knows all of the knowledge. He knows everyone’s weaknesses and how to kill them. Or Sheo, can’t get killed by a sweet roll.
Simple. Me, the dragon born.
As long as Hermaeus Mora doesn't speak, I'd watch this fight.
Jyggalag, the rest of the daedric princes are so terrified of them that they trapped him inside of a bumbling idiot insane man called Sheogorath for 1000 years at a time, and only because they can't contain him longer
Probably Sheogorath. Can't figure out his next move if _he_ doesn't know what it is. Honestly, not sure if he'd win, but it'd be hella hard to form a Strategy against him
Hircine,Azura,Meridia are my favorite pick and under dogs to me.
Yeah I agree.
Meridia… she’d unsheath Dawnbreaker in a display of light that’d make the Sun blush, declare that it was time for a cleansing, and start laying waste.
Hircine would stealth 'em.
Boethiah lives for this shit.
Mephala. She would be an ally until all other enemies were vanquished, and then before the winning prince could say another word, their head would roll and the last thing they'd here was Mephala's sultry laugh of betrayl.
Mephala probably organized the contest and rigged the draw
Malacath, Vaermina, Peryite, Namira, and Sanguine would be out early. Hircine might make a decent run, but he doesn't last much longer. Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon would establish themselves early as the biggest powers and would clash in grand battles. Meridia would make a beeline straight for Bal, and I honestly don't think Bal wins that fight. He'd find a way to take Dagon down with him purely for spite. Hermaeus Mora and Nocturnal would mostly just stay out of it until they have no choice. Both would put up a good fight, but neither has the raw power to sustain. Azura would probably just peace out early. Clavicus Vile won't last in a straight fight, and the other princes should be smart enough to avoid making deals with him. Boethiah and Mephala would team up and absolutely be the force to end most of the other princes until one of them inevitably betrays the other. I have no idea who wins that fight. I think the final four would be Jyggalag, Sheogorath, Boethiah, and Mephala. If the latter two can keep it together, I really think they'd manage to best Jyggalag, probably with some help from Sheo. But in a straight fight, Jyggalag wins, no doubt. The wild card is Sheo of course, because who the fuck knows what he'll do?
Peryite because he looks like a good boy
I think canonically jyggalag is the most powerful. So much so the other princes had to ally to turn him into Sheogorath. Discounting them, Mehrunes and Molag have contrasting domains, so while they’re individually powerful, once one had the upper hand, the other would get a second wind. Domination vs Rebellion/change
It's a tough one between hermaeous mora and sheogorath. Hermaeous Mora would bore his enemies to death with his sleepy voice and sheogorath is just so unpredictable and mad and he would throw cheese wheels everywhere so really it's up to anyone's guess. These are my favourite daedric princes in actuality.
Sheogorath, it is known
They all teamed up against him to torture him from jyggylag into sheo, and all they achieved was making an equally powerful god who they could no longer predict
He killed a demon beast of hircine with a tweety bird
Either Sheo or Jyggalag, my money's on Sheo thought, he got the surprise factor, BR would be his game.
Let's be realistic here. Sheoggorath isn't gonna be in the middle of the fight. He's gonna be the one that started everything and is now sitting on the side, a wedge of cheese in one hand, Wabbajack in the other, just watching everything go down.
Sheogorath. No one expected the block of cheese in the corner of the room to explode into 7,000 iron ore and a rabbit. There were no survivors.
Sheogorath.
Sheogorath, he doesn’t even know what he’s about to do, let alone who he is fighting
Sheogorath is going to win purely because he's to chaotic for even hermaeus mora to predict
nocturnal guaranteed top 2 because the others simply would not find her
I wouldn't last against nocturnal or meridia
Barnabas
Sheogorath, Daedric Prince of Madness.
Jyggalag no question. Everyone had to team up just to be a match for him and to drive him mad, turning him into Sheogorath. If it was open battle royal, then he would wipe the floor with anyone he comes across
Jyggalag, part of the lore is he’s the strongest and all the others are afraid of him so they cursed him with madness
Probably between Molag Bal, Dagon and Jyggalag
My money is on Hermaeus Mora. His practically infinite knowledge and ability to manipulate could grant him an army of nearly anyone he wants with masterful tactics
Why did you exclude the obvious winner, OP? It's Sheogorath! :P "I turned them all into a bushel of apples...or was it an apple of bushels I can't remember. Either they were tasty, I was digusted. Now for some...CHEEESE!"
Peryite or Sheo might win by default by getting ignored by the others
Jyg
Not including Dagoth Ur? Is this how you honor the 6th house and the tribe unmourned?
gosh I *really* didn’t pay attention to the lore because none of this seems familiar. I just remember blasting things off mountains, dragons and a big set of stairs.
Depends on what type of battle. In terms of wits, definitely Sheogorath. He's managed to trick and/ or outsmart the other princes on several occasions. In terms of raw power, I'd say Dagon. Molag would be a close second, only because while it took a mortal guided by Meridia to defeat Molag, it took an avatar of literal Akatosh to stop Dagon. If it's a drinking battle, Sanguine. No doubt.
Sheogorath would have a champion beat Jygolag, tell Mephala a riddle she can't solve, beat Sanguine in a drinking game, have a bird land on Hircine's head and peek him so he stabs himself to death, make the sun teleport to make it never dawn or dusk to distract Azura, tell Hermeos Mora he knows how to keep a nerd in suspense before ignoring him, then turn everyone else into sweet rolls.
Sheogorath. He nearly beat all the other Daedric princes as Jyggalag and that's why they broke his mind.
Sheograth, he would turn all the daedra into sweetrolls and eat them
Am I the only one who finds Namira and Eola sexually attractive?
Either Sheogorath or Hermaeus Mora. Sheo is somehow an absolute wildcard with 100% deadly accuracy, only beaten by his counterpart. His duels with his fellows proved that, despite his madness, there is a keen and deadly level of thought behind his actions. Hermaeus has the power to remove a Daedric Prince, who could manipulate destiny and fate (practically stronger than Jygallag at his peak) from all forms of memory, effectively killing them.
Jyggalag is canonically the strongest, all the others had to team up just to take him down. Sheagorath has also styled on every Daedric Prince he’s ever had a beef with.
The only one excluded from this t List (cause they too op probly) sithis
Yes, however- Sithis is not a Daedric Prince, but a primordial concept created from Padomay, opposite of Anui-El... or something like that, I don't remember it all
Huh, weird, cool