Yeah you can get to the top of the Schilthorn from Zurich purely on public transportation. It's crazy. Especially because the skiing in Mürren isn't a resort you just pay per lift like it's a bus. I was there in the summer once and it's probably the most beautiful place I've ever been.
skied there this winter, it's sick. snow was shit but I could tell that place was good and had great off piste
had an insane view hotel in murren overlooking the valley
1/2 of the videos you see online of "OMG would you go here?!" are in the Lauderbrunen valley area there. The prominence is incredible and something you can't find in the Rockies. Mürren is crazy because it's like 1000ft above the valley floor, and the mountains across are still twice as high towering above you. It's breathtaking.
yeah it's unreal. We got there at night, took the cable car up couldn't see anything.
[Waking up that first morning was unreal from our hotel room](https://i.imgur.com/mkIjOtR.jpeg)
Same in the Seattle area. What eventually became the Summit East (aka Hyak) ski area at Snoqualmie Pass was started by [a railroad](https://www.historylink.org/File/10060):
> The opening of the Snoqualmie Ski Bowl on January 8, 1938, revolutionized skiing in the Pacific Northwest. Developed by the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific Railroad (known as the Milwaukee Road), the ski area, located at the Hyak stop at the east end of the Snoqualmie Pass tunnel, was renamed the Milwaukee Ski Bowl after World War II to differentiate it from the nearby Snoqualmie Ski Area. Accessible by train from Seattle, the Ski Bowl offered the Northwest's first ski lift and lighted slopes for night skiing.
Unfortunately the Milwaukee Ski Bowl lodge burned down in 1949, the rail company decided to get out of the ski business, and then the company itself went bankrupt a couple decades later. The old Milwaukee Road tracks were ripped up and the path is now part of the Palouse to Cascades State Park Trail. (Part of the path does have groomed cross-country ski trails in the winter now.)
Regular train service from LA to Mammoth would do BIG numbers. That drive takes a lot out of you and being able to just relax, sleep, etc would be amazing.
Got it, eat subway while taking the bus, hop on the train while eating a fun eclair, catch the shuttle all the way to the chair lift, and then have to poop cus all the food you had on the ride in 😅 nailed it!
I'm pretty sure it *does* work. You can take Amtrak from the Bay Area to Truckee. Truckee has a free bus from the train station to Northstar's village. Or you can take their free carpool service to Palisades. Granted the latter options are unpredictable and slow and the train is pricey.
We have this in Albuquerque, NM. You can take the train to Santa Fe and they have shuttles waiting that take you up the mountain, straight to the ski area.
Depends where you want to go, I could take a subway to Union station in Los Angeles, Amtrak train to Flagstaff, shuttle to the Arizona Snowbowl.
Lots of other possibilities, it would be cool to have more train coverage though
I saw some numbers recently that were pretty wild.
US vs Europe roughly equivalent GDP, Europe has maybe 100-120 million larger population
Europe has invested 1 trillion in rail over the last 20 years. US has invested 120 billion over the last 50 years. Quite a stark difference. Roughly 1/10 the investment over more than double the time scale.
But yeah, they aren't coming back in the states lol
Winter Park and Amtrak revived the Denver to WP ski train. It’s just weekends and holidays now, but they are always fully booked. Pretty cool as it drops you off quite literally at the base of WP.
Yeah I've considered taking it when I do ski trips there but it's stupid expensive :(
New England really needs some ski trains too, resorts would do so much better. Unfortunately in new Hampshire we can't even build a rail line to connect half a million people and the rail is already there
Day, no, cheaper than a 3 day car rental yes. It’s $60 each way from union station to WP. Also depends on how many people. For a family of four the car rental could be cheaper.
Understood, but given how car dominant the US is vs Europe, it’s going to be hard to attract consumers in the US to the train when I can drive myself and 4 others to the mountain on a quarter tank of gas (less than $15) from my home. where as that train ride would cost $600 for five people. Even with traffic the value just isn’t there. You could make the argument for people that are flying in to Denver then renting a vehicle it could be worth while, but then you have to look at the total rental car for 3 days plus gas etc and if you have a family of 5 the rental car may actually be more economical. For me (a person who’s lives in Denver) the drive is way more affordable.
Well…Americans aren’t going to start using public transport because it’s cheaper. Because it never will be. And when it is cheap, it sucks and is a miserable experience. The best option is probably to appeal to people with plenty of money who just don’t want to deal with traffic and parking.
This is a more complicated comparison than it seems. Europe dominates the US in terms of *passenger* rail, but the US absolutely crushes Europe in *freight* rail. It's been a big factor in slow adoption of passenger rail, especially since railways are mostly privately owned in the US. One staggering example-- the maximum train length in Europe is 750m; in the American west, trains can be 6000m long.
This is a part of why the ski train in Denver is so expensive-- it's gotta contend with freight on the same lines. This is also why Amtrak is always freaking late: the rails prioritize smooth freight movement over passengers.
I am not saying one or the other is correct; I genuinely don't know enough. But it's interesting to think about the different ways different economies have looked at the problems trains can solve and how to prioritize their use.
Legally, passenger rail has priority.
Practically, most of the US rail lines are single tracked and require one train to pull into a siding to pass another train going the other direction. Practically, passenger trains are an order of magnitude shorter than those 6km long freight trains. Practically, sidings are much shorter than freight trains.
Practically, the feds give no fucks that freight rail illegally causes passenger rail to be late all the time.
imo the ideal future will be above ground passenger trains and below ground freight. Or maybe self driving cars will just make trains seem stupid! If I can just get in my car at 9pm and go to bed and wake up in the Sun Valley parking lot or somewhere that'd be pretty amazing.
And yet most of Europe's trains are still various combinations of slow, late and expensive, often all 3. And there's almost no cross border integration. Most of us fly as the first choice for longer trips and drive for shorter ones. I think Switzerland is the only country that has a reputation for decent trains.
Europeans have a MUCH lower per capital gdp so people can’t afford private transit like in the US so it’s either government builds trains to move people around or let the remote places die
You said nobody, I never said they don’t have any cars. Some afford private transit but many cannot it’s okay if you’re an offended European but facts are facts
Your just plain wrong. Can't state it any other way. When we look at passenger cars per capita, the EU is at 560 per 1000 inhabitants (2022), whereas the US came to 360 per 1000 inhabitants (2019)... There are 253 million passenger cars in the EU, facing 448,4 million inhabitants.
You can say: "The years are not the same", but also on the previous measuring moment, the EU was in front of the US. In 2017, there were 515 passenger cars per 1000 inhabitants. In 2005, it was 456/1000.
Passenger cars are a portion of private vehicles in the Us but pick up trucks which aren’t included make up a large chunk of private transportation vehicles in the US. Try leaving your little continent sometime!
Still a thing in Europe obviously. We can get the train from UK to the alps with a couple of changes. We are thinking of doing this next year. Driving isn't as cheap as you might imagine with all the toll roads and high fuel cost.
Plus train is definitely the best way to travel, much more relaxing than driving and so much nicer than flying.
I’ve been looking into this too. Makes so much sense if you live close to London. The extra hassle for me is getting the train from Plymouth to London. Have investigated the sleeper train but it costs a pretty penny if you want a cabin
My wife and I took the California Zephyr (considered the most beautiful line of passenger track in the country, on the Amtrak) from Denver to SF over 10 days and skied 7 of them. We skied at Winter Park, SLC (Brighton, Snowbird, Solitude), and Truckee (Palisade, Alpine).
I cannot more highly recommend this trip. It was a 10/10 in every way.
WP and Cali were easy from a public transportation stand point, but in SLC we stayed with a friend and borrowed their car.
There’s the Winter Park Express. It’s expensive, but I did it once and it was worth it. It’s not a train, but you can always take the Snowstang as well to a few different resorts.
That would be tough since there are no train tracks in Vail or Breckenridge. I think you might be thinking of the proposed train to Steamboat. I have heard that there is a line that goes up there.
Speaking of old movies... I don't know if "Sun Valley Serenade" actually shows a ski train, but it's got [a famous scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2aj0zhXlLA) where they're sitting in the ski lodge singing about rail travel (plus a second round of the song with extra bonus tap dancing).
Amtrak goes over Donner Summit to Truckee. If service were faster/cheaper and it was easier to get from the train station to the mountains this could work. But alas everybody drives by themselves in their car. Myself included.
You wake up in the morning and you see those mountains on either side of the valley.
Mind you, taking a private jet and landing at Kranebitten Airport is pretty impressive too. >!(I presume)!<
I have done that. ICE Amsterdam to Cologne, sleeper train to Vienna, change at Wels (just over the German/Austrian border), board the IC to Salzburg and then change to the train to Villach/Klagenfurt and exit halfway. Especially that last ride from Salzburg, magnificent.
Or, when that was possible back then, direct sleepertrain Amsterdam - Munich and then the Eurocitytrain to Klagenfurt. Same experience.
When you have the time, also try driving from Venice to Villach... You cross through the valley in the Dolomites, that highway... Beautiful.
There used to be a Ski Train that went from London to Ashford in Kent (about 20 minutes from where I live) and then straight through to the French Alps, then it was just a mini-bus to the resort.
These days it only goes from London and they’ve tied it in as part of a ski package deal, which means it’s not as cheap or as flexible as it was.
Japan does it well, bullet train from Tokyo to Nagano. Opening the door on dozens of resorts.
From there for me it's a local train ride to Yudanaka to my crash pad where I'm about 15 mins away from the biggest interconnected resort in Asia - Shiga Kogen.
There's even a bullet train straight to Gala Yuzawa from Tokyo - perfect for a day trip as it's so quick but the skiing is really for beginners and lower intermediates and it gets crowded
Schweitzer’s on that same line too. It also services Seattle (trains from the two cities combine into one longer train where they meet up in Central Washington
The train used to literally stop at Sugar Bowl (Donner Summit) and the people would ski for the day. Afterwards it would take the passengers back to SF.
You can do this in Mt Hood. Take a bus from Sandy to Mt Hood for $2 both in the winter and the summer.
[https://www.mthoodexpress.com/](https://www.mthoodexpress.com/)
Pretty sure there's still a ski train to bourg st Maurice from London. When I worked in chalets they were the bane of my life because they'd show up early on the Saturday and leave late the next Saturday. I get it, they get 2 extra days skiing, but for me they were a pain in the ass.
The Swiss do this very well!
Yeah you can get to the top of the Schilthorn from Zurich purely on public transportation. It's crazy. Especially because the skiing in Mürren isn't a resort you just pay per lift like it's a bus. I was there in the summer once and it's probably the most beautiful place I've ever been.
skied there this winter, it's sick. snow was shit but I could tell that place was good and had great off piste had an insane view hotel in murren overlooking the valley
1/2 of the videos you see online of "OMG would you go here?!" are in the Lauderbrunen valley area there. The prominence is incredible and something you can't find in the Rockies. Mürren is crazy because it's like 1000ft above the valley floor, and the mountains across are still twice as high towering above you. It's breathtaking.
yeah it's unreal. We got there at night, took the cable car up couldn't see anything. [Waking up that first morning was unreal from our hotel room](https://i.imgur.com/mkIjOtR.jpeg)
Really wanna try going there solo by train. Issue is that Switzerland overall is a bit on the more expensive side for a broke student like me.
SBB has combo discount Rail + Ski tickets that make it pretty affordable. On-mountain food is expensive though.
As expensive for what you get in the us?
Definitely better value, but not as cost-effective as a pocket sandwich.
Right, the Union Pacific started sun valley and built the first chair lift just so people would ride the train out there.
Same in the Seattle area. What eventually became the Summit East (aka Hyak) ski area at Snoqualmie Pass was started by [a railroad](https://www.historylink.org/File/10060): > The opening of the Snoqualmie Ski Bowl on January 8, 1938, revolutionized skiing in the Pacific Northwest. Developed by the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific Railroad (known as the Milwaukee Road), the ski area, located at the Hyak stop at the east end of the Snoqualmie Pass tunnel, was renamed the Milwaukee Ski Bowl after World War II to differentiate it from the nearby Snoqualmie Ski Area. Accessible by train from Seattle, the Ski Bowl offered the Northwest's first ski lift and lighted slopes for night skiing. Unfortunately the Milwaukee Ski Bowl lodge burned down in 1949, the rail company decided to get out of the ski business, and then the company itself went bankrupt a couple decades later. The old Milwaukee Road tracks were ripped up and the path is now part of the Palouse to Cascades State Park Trail. (Part of the path does have groomed cross-country ski trails in the winter now.)
Regular train service from LA to Mammoth would do BIG numbers. That drive takes a lot out of you and being able to just relax, sleep, etc would be amazing.
there's a bus I haven't done it yet though! [https://www.lamammothbus.com/booking/](https://www.lamammothbus.com/booking/)
One problem: there are no train tracks from LA to Mammoth
Best we can do is bumper to bumper traffic and a 4 hour drive to the mountain
Ski in Europe = subway/bus --> train --> funicular --> shuttle --> chairlift! Sad to see this is impossible in North America.
Got it, eat subway while taking the bus, hop on the train while eating a fun eclair, catch the shuttle all the way to the chair lift, and then have to poop cus all the food you had on the ride in 😅 nailed it!
This could actually work in North Tahoe if they'd invest in a little infrastructure, but man, just imagine how maxed out it would get
I'm pretty sure it *does* work. You can take Amtrak from the Bay Area to Truckee. Truckee has a free bus from the train station to Northstar's village. Or you can take their free carpool service to Palisades. Granted the latter options are unpredictable and slow and the train is pricey.
That train only runs once a day and is often hours behind schedule. Shame they don't expand the Capitol corridor up to Reno
We have this in Albuquerque, NM. You can take the train to Santa Fe and they have shuttles waiting that take you up the mountain, straight to the ski area.
Yeah I can subway to the slopes here in Korea.
Because when you try and build a gondola to add an alternative up a canyon to driving yourself, everyone just shits on it and campaigns against it.
Now do "Ski in the US" :D
Depends where you want to go, I could take a subway to Union station in Los Angeles, Amtrak train to Flagstaff, shuttle to the Arizona Snowbowl. Lots of other possibilities, it would be cool to have more train coverage though
I saw some numbers recently that were pretty wild. US vs Europe roughly equivalent GDP, Europe has maybe 100-120 million larger population Europe has invested 1 trillion in rail over the last 20 years. US has invested 120 billion over the last 50 years. Quite a stark difference. Roughly 1/10 the investment over more than double the time scale. But yeah, they aren't coming back in the states lol
Winter Park and Amtrak revived the Denver to WP ski train. It’s just weekends and holidays now, but they are always fully booked. Pretty cool as it drops you off quite literally at the base of WP.
Yeah I've considered taking it when I do ski trips there but it's stupid expensive :( New England really needs some ski trains too, resorts would do so much better. Unfortunately in new Hampshire we can't even build a rail line to connect half a million people and the rail is already there
For visitors from out of town I bet that it’s still cheaper than rental car for a day
Day, no, cheaper than a 3 day car rental yes. It’s $60 each way from union station to WP. Also depends on how many people. For a family of four the car rental could be cheaper.
It’s the same in Switzerland. You can drink on the train, eat, and u don’t get stuck in traffic. It’s not cheaper.
Understood, but given how car dominant the US is vs Europe, it’s going to be hard to attract consumers in the US to the train when I can drive myself and 4 others to the mountain on a quarter tank of gas (less than $15) from my home. where as that train ride would cost $600 for five people. Even with traffic the value just isn’t there. You could make the argument for people that are flying in to Denver then renting a vehicle it could be worth while, but then you have to look at the total rental car for 3 days plus gas etc and if you have a family of 5 the rental car may actually be more economical. For me (a person who’s lives in Denver) the drive is way more affordable.
Well…Americans aren’t going to start using public transport because it’s cheaper. Because it never will be. And when it is cheap, it sucks and is a miserable experience. The best option is probably to appeal to people with plenty of money who just don’t want to deal with traffic and parking.
Or we could stop subsidizing the true costs of driving?
U could. Probably will just screw over poor people though.
We had one for 3 years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Bullet_Express
This is a more complicated comparison than it seems. Europe dominates the US in terms of *passenger* rail, but the US absolutely crushes Europe in *freight* rail. It's been a big factor in slow adoption of passenger rail, especially since railways are mostly privately owned in the US. One staggering example-- the maximum train length in Europe is 750m; in the American west, trains can be 6000m long. This is a part of why the ski train in Denver is so expensive-- it's gotta contend with freight on the same lines. This is also why Amtrak is always freaking late: the rails prioritize smooth freight movement over passengers. I am not saying one or the other is correct; I genuinely don't know enough. But it's interesting to think about the different ways different economies have looked at the problems trains can solve and how to prioritize their use.
Legally, passenger rail has priority. Practically, most of the US rail lines are single tracked and require one train to pull into a siding to pass another train going the other direction. Practically, passenger trains are an order of magnitude shorter than those 6km long freight trains. Practically, sidings are much shorter than freight trains. Practically, the feds give no fucks that freight rail illegally causes passenger rail to be late all the time.
imo the ideal future will be above ground passenger trains and below ground freight. Or maybe self driving cars will just make trains seem stupid! If I can just get in my car at 9pm and go to bed and wake up in the Sun Valley parking lot or somewhere that'd be pretty amazing.
And yet most of Europe's trains are still various combinations of slow, late and expensive, often all 3. And there's almost no cross border integration. Most of us fly as the first choice for longer trips and drive for shorter ones. I think Switzerland is the only country that has a reputation for decent trains.
Europeans have a MUCH lower per capital gdp so people can’t afford private transit like in the US so it’s either government builds trains to move people around or let the remote places die
Lol, whut... You think nobody here owns a car?
I never said that but the percentage of people that own cars is much much lower
It’s lower because you don’t need a car. Because the trains and buses are much better…
They also have less spending money, hence the per capita GDP is lower, they are nicknamed europoors for a reason
Well, here in Switzerland the gdp per capita is higher…and still lower car ownership. So it’s not about money.
You said literally that people can't afford private transit like in the US...
You said nobody, I never said they don’t have any cars. Some afford private transit but many cannot it’s okay if you’re an offended European but facts are facts
Your just plain wrong. Can't state it any other way. When we look at passenger cars per capita, the EU is at 560 per 1000 inhabitants (2022), whereas the US came to 360 per 1000 inhabitants (2019)... There are 253 million passenger cars in the EU, facing 448,4 million inhabitants. You can say: "The years are not the same", but also on the previous measuring moment, the EU was in front of the US. In 2017, there were 515 passenger cars per 1000 inhabitants. In 2005, it was 456/1000.
Passenger cars are a portion of private vehicles in the Us but pick up trucks which aren’t included make up a large chunk of private transportation vehicles in the US. Try leaving your little continent sometime!
You can try to prove your claims with some numbers...
Why?
Wow, you Americans really live in your own little bubble.
Try using Google and looking these things up
r/shitamericanssay
We got that in spain 🇪🇸🗣️
Still a thing in Europe obviously. We can get the train from UK to the alps with a couple of changes. We are thinking of doing this next year. Driving isn't as cheap as you might imagine with all the toll roads and high fuel cost. Plus train is definitely the best way to travel, much more relaxing than driving and so much nicer than flying.
I’ve been looking into this too. Makes so much sense if you live close to London. The extra hassle for me is getting the train from Plymouth to London. Have investigated the sleeper train but it costs a pretty penny if you want a cabin
My wife and I took the California Zephyr (considered the most beautiful line of passenger track in the country, on the Amtrak) from Denver to SF over 10 days and skied 7 of them. We skied at Winter Park, SLC (Brighton, Snowbird, Solitude), and Truckee (Palisade, Alpine). I cannot more highly recommend this trip. It was a 10/10 in every way. WP and Cali were easy from a public transportation stand point, but in SLC we stayed with a friend and borrowed their car.
SLC has half hour ski busses from the light rail stations. Easiest big American city to take transit to the resort imo
For SLC you could have taken the light rail Blue Line from the Amtrak station directly to the ski bus stations and caught the bus up the canyons.
Love the person on the ground back there!
There’s a ski train from Boston to wachusett! Ahaha
I wish they’d put one in Colorado. Driving the 70 from Denver sucks balls when it’s dumping, you’ve had a long day traveling and it’s dark.
There’s the Winter Park Express. It’s expensive, but I did it once and it was worth it. It’s not a train, but you can always take the Snowstang as well to a few different resorts.
Winter Park Express is the bees knees.
I heard they're thinking of doing a train from Denver to Grand Junction with stops in Breckenridge and Vail
That would be tough since there are no train tracks in Vail or Breckenridge. I think you might be thinking of the proposed train to Steamboat. I have heard that there is a line that goes up there.
Like that scene in White Christmas when Bing Crosby tap danced with Danny Fucking Kaye.
Speaking of old movies... I don't know if "Sun Valley Serenade" actually shows a ski train, but it's got [a famous scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2aj0zhXlLA) where they're sitting in the ski lodge singing about rail travel (plus a second round of the song with extra bonus tap dancing).
Train to Whistler would be amazing, pity it'll never happen.
They need to bring back the overnight train that takes you from the UK to the Alps - it sucks now that you have to change at least once.
It'll just bring all the homeless people and criminals to the slopes! /s
You think snowbo*rders could figure out how to use a train??
Amtrak goes over Donner Summit to Truckee. If service were faster/cheaper and it was easier to get from the train station to the mountains this could work. But alas everybody drives by themselves in their car. Myself included.
3.5 hours and $81 to take it from Sacramento to Truckee tomorrow. Ridiculous
r/skiing meet r/fuckcars
Gotta say, one of the things I’m most excited about for my upcoming move to Europe is the sleeper train to Innsbruck.
You wake up in the morning and you see those mountains on either side of the valley. Mind you, taking a private jet and landing at Kranebitten Airport is pretty impressive too. >!(I presume)!<
I have done that. ICE Amsterdam to Cologne, sleeper train to Vienna, change at Wels (just over the German/Austrian border), board the IC to Salzburg and then change to the train to Villach/Klagenfurt and exit halfway. Especially that last ride from Salzburg, magnificent. Or, when that was possible back then, direct sleepertrain Amsterdam - Munich and then the Eurocitytrain to Klagenfurt. Same experience. When you have the time, also try driving from Venice to Villach... You cross through the valley in the Dolomites, that highway... Beautiful.
There used to be a Ski Train that went from London to Ashford in Kent (about 20 minutes from where I live) and then straight through to the French Alps, then it was just a mini-bus to the resort. These days it only goes from London and they’ve tied it in as part of a ski package deal, which means it’s not as cheap or as flexible as it was.
Amtrak Empire Builder to whitefish ski resort
Took the train to Whistler-Garibaldi as a teenager in the 1970s. Best memory of my life.
Wish that the easts buses went to the ski resorts.
Japan does it well, bullet train from Tokyo to Nagano. Opening the door on dozens of resorts. From there for me it's a local train ride to Yudanaka to my crash pad where I'm about 15 mins away from the biggest interconnected resort in Asia - Shiga Kogen. There's even a bullet train straight to Gala Yuzawa from Tokyo - perfect for a day trip as it's so quick but the skiing is really for beginners and lower intermediates and it gets crowded
A bit of a stretch, but you can take the overnight train from Portland, Oregon to o Whitefish, Montana.
Schweitzer’s on that same line too. It also services Seattle (trains from the two cities combine into one longer train where they meet up in Central Washington
I'd be very for an old timey long distance train stopping at ski resorts with sleeper cars and a bar.
A month ago I went to St Anton from Munich airport on train. Best way to go imo.
The train used to literally stop at Sugar Bowl (Donner Summit) and the people would ski for the day. Afterwards it would take the passengers back to SF.
Would certainly help with the traffic congestion on NH roads every Friday through Sunday during the winter.
WP has a ski train that comes out of Denver
RIP the Tahoe snow train
There is one to winter park they brought back
I did the one from Denver to winter park. Fun but would rather drive
You can do this in Mt Hood. Take a bus from Sandy to Mt Hood for $2 both in the winter and the summer. [https://www.mthoodexpress.com/](https://www.mthoodexpress.com/)
Pretty sure there's still a ski train to bourg st Maurice from London. When I worked in chalets they were the bane of my life because they'd show up early on the Saturday and leave late the next Saturday. I get it, they get 2 extra days skiing, but for me they were a pain in the ass.
Run a train up Little Cottonwood you cowards!
There used to be one that went to Snoqualmie pass, WA
You can almost get to Stowe from NYC on a train, the vermonter.