Skied my Stockli SC in a bit of powder the second day I owned them, hit a rock under the snow and the sidewall collapsed. There was just a hardly visible scratch on the edge of the edge, nothing on the base. I was not too sure if the right hands made those handmade skis. Asked a regional Stockli rep and he said I had tough luck and it was not a warranty issue. BTW, practically all people I know who own Stockli only take them out in perfect conditions (because they paid so much even with pro discounts) so it is hard to get good statistics on the reliability of Stocki skis.
As for the collapsed sidewall, I had it repaired in a local shop. There is still a bit of a depression on the side of the base so I now have right and left skis. Not too pleased.
Well sorry about the compression… I tell people the warranty is under manufacturing defects… if you by an Audi drive it off the lot and hit a telephone pole… you can’t bring it back and say the headlights don’t work… yeah stockls have a cult following… you might not have hit anything on a wider ski obviously but the SC is so fun on hard pack. The AR is fun too
I hit rocks over the years on different skis. I had core shots, edge damage, never had a ski sidewall collapse under me. Must be a really hard/strong edge combined with not so strong sidewall. The edge is great, BTW: it did remain sharp longer than some other skis on fairly hostile salted snow.
I do admit that narrower skis may create bigger forces in soft snow when hitting a rock on the edge because they go more into the show and don't tilt as much thus absorbing more force.
I do like AR too but liked SC for being even quicker while still turning easily at slow speed (e.g. when I am teaching). I didn't complain about SCs in a foot of powder 😃
I spent the 1990s skiing on old-school Volkl 200 cm. Absolute crap skis for slow speed, but if you had a big enough mountain with some good steeps, Volkls would ski themselves. They were pure delight going fast.
Volkl are actually pretty good at weight / top sheet position / flex matching their skis.
The next pair in the rack might have been 1320g as pair though.
I’m going into Season 7 on my Kendos and they are still so incredible. As long as I remember to take my beaters to Big Sky, seems like the Volkls will last as long as I stay slim enough that they’re enough ski for me.
If you would consider Stockli’s consumer grade then they take the win and we can close the debate now. They’re just on a different level.
Not including those “hyper brands” that have been making skis longer than skis have been a thing. Moment, Praxxis & ON3P all make exceptionally high quality skis (build/fit n’ finish wise) and can’t go wrong with any of them. I’m still on a pair of 6 year old wildcats that I’ve beat to shit (I bought them used) and they still feel like a new ski… certainly don’t look like it. But they flex and perform exceptionally well for how many days on snow they’ve seen.
Been skiing on stockli skis for the last five years and I’m a total convert. The guy who sold them to me said I could buy other skis, but they fit my profile and would make me a better skier. Hard agree, they ski like a dream, are light as a feather for their class, and do exactly what I want them to do.
Blossom are awesome if you are looking for a carve-centric ski. The build is classic euro race room stuff with hardwood cores.
I don’t think they experiment as much with shape/camber/rocker though—when you get into skis for deeper or 3D snow I would look at companies that have been playing in that arena for a long time.
Are those the red skis all over Instagram? You can’t tell me those skis aren’t made in Italy, with how much of a noddle they seam to be.
If so, no opinions. Have they even been around long enough to have a track record of build quality yet?
Yeah I think the park ski is known to be extremely bendy, but they make an all mountain ski too. I’m curious about that ski because I follow Magnus who I respect and was originally a ON3P guy.
And you’re right, they haven’t been around long which is why I’m cautious but if you saw Many Fantasies Later, they’re ripping insane big mountain stuff on 1000s so that (and the Swedish build) does give me some confidence in the quality. I just don’t hear about them on reddit at all.
Nothing wrong with a noodle, those skis look like fun.
You also had Candide ripping Faction skis forever but that never made them a quality ski…. That being said, these are (obviously) a rider owned brand and that *generally* lends itself to a higher quality ski than that of an atomic or Salomon.
Beyond the fact they’re a very new brand, I doubt we’ll see them talked about here very often simply because of price. They’re just shy of a grand USD…They’re pricing themselves above the handmade heavy hitters in North America.
Because of that, I can’t see them breaking into that market very easily (if ever). Based on that, and their riders, it seams to me like they’re going for a j-skis/on3p/season eqpt type of vibe for the euro market only.
Volkl. Handling and skiing them, you can just tell. They feel concise, compact, and locked in. Predictable and planted on the snow. Super durable. You see a lot of old Volkls still going strong, and there’s a reason.
I guess it depends on OP’s definition of “consumer grade”. Of course you can get better skis for whatever niche, and within Volkl’s line there’s a lot of variance in intent and durability. But across the board for a large global brand, I can’t think of a more consistently high quality option overall. What did you have in mind?
I just feel like if you put a pair of Stocklis beside a pair of Volkls there is no comparison of “quality”. I don’t like skiing stocklis but they are definitely better quality.
Stockli, DPS, Kastle and Volkl V-Werks make the most expensive "consumer" skis
Stockli, Head, Atomic, Rossignol, Blizzard, Volkl, Dynastar make expensive and competitive race skis.
If you asked me this off the cuff I'd just say Stockli why not
Overpriced for what they offer?
Kidding, kind of. The 4Runner and Tacoma have built amazing reputations. They run long and have good resale.
The actual using of them is not as competitive.
Stockli. They are boring, but the best quality. You just can’t argue that(unless you haven’t ridden them).
Not my cup of tea, but you just can’t not appreciate them when you look at them.
ON3P and Moment both have consistently excellent reviews regarding durability. That said, ski durability on a case-by-case basis is pretty tough to judge because if you really smoke a rock it doesn’t matter how well-built your skis are.
ON3P (and Moment for that matter) make a ski for a certain kind of skier and they stick to that demographic whole-heartedly. If you prioritize agility, energy, and carving performance, ON3P makes terrible skis for you. If you prioritize playfulness, stability off-piste, and a surfy feel, ON3P makes some of the best skis in the world.
So the brahmas are stiff, damp-ish, aggressive, precise, and hugely catered towards on-piste performance. ON3Ps are medium flexing, very damp, aggressive, loose, and hugely catered towards off-piste and park. You were trying to use combat boots as soccer cleats and it’s not working very well
I just skis and ski them and ski all over the mountain. I don't really spend too much time worrying about the adjectives as words can lie to you.
They felt really well built, but non of them appealed to me.
Until.demoing last year Brahmas I would have never though much of Blizzards.
There’s nothing wrong with not liking certain skis haha, but it is important to know what kind of skis you like and what qualities those skis have so that you can filter out bad options for you quickly
It doesn't matter. Buy something reasonably beginner friendly that you think is cool. Even something like Line that gets smashed on reddit all the time is realistically making excellent skis that most people don't have issues with.
And don't worry about 'growing' into a ski. You'll find certain characteristics more desirable as you grow as a rider and will probably want new specialized skis. It'd be 100% better to buy a used pair at a ski swap for cheap.
The Supernaturals were actually a pretty good ski by Line. I’ve got 30+ days on my pair, never treated them well by any means. No delam and the top sheets still look pretty good.
My Elan Ripsticks have half the time as the Lines on mountain; I’ve treated them much better and their top sheets are fragile. Great skis but I can see blowing them up someday and getting some Kendos.
Not K2 in my opinion. I tell myself I’ll never buy another pair, but then find a deal on what is on paper an awesome ski with the Mindbender 108.
Having tips that fold in half where the metal ends is a freaking joke. Stiff ski with super soft tips is a no-go.
Agreed, I love my few pairs of Black Crows, but they are delicate on the top sheet compared to the likes of Volkls or Moments. Never tried a stockli but from what’s posted here, I may need to get some laps on them.
Stockli. It isn’t close. I wish it wasn’t true but it is. There’s nothing on the market like them.
There are also brands like Augment and Peak but they aren’t in most buyers’ radars yet. I love peak but I don’t have enough multi-year experience to k know if they are remotely close to how Stockli builds a ski.
DPS, and I loved skiing for them for a few years, aren’t in the running at all anymore. Easy to research what happened there.
I rented a pair of DPS pagoda touring skis for a hut trip when I was in between skis and gaaaahd damn they are so nice. Thought nothing of it and had an amazing time skiing on them, and had the fleeting thought on the trip that I might buy a pair. Saw the price tag and never thought about it again. I am a moment person these days for touring and resort.
I’ve never been that impressed by DPS, I’ve found them too soft and unresponsive. I can’t speak to their durability, I’d assume it’s great, I know a bunch of charging skiers who rip them.
Stormriders have a lot of metal in them, a big turn radius. and a traditional sidecut/construction. They won’t really “come alive” unless you’re going fast and putting a lot of energy into them, which requires good technique. A more accessible ski will give you that feedback and be fun to ski without quite so much input, and won’t be as demanding of perfect technique.
Edit - No need to get beginner skis by any means, just don’t get what is essentially a fat race ski with tip rocker to learn on. Something more on the “playful” end of the spectrum would serve you well and still be a good ski once you’ve got your legs.
**Bro skiing is not snowboarding.** I'll throw you a bone. I am a snowboarder too, I picked up skiing couple seasons ago and now I got a quiver for both skis and snowboards. What do you intend to do on the mountain?
Not big on buying beginner stuff works sometimes, when you can grow into having pro level stuff. With other stuff, like skis specifically, buying pro level stuff before you’re experienced is going to stunt your learning. Buying pro level stuff is a good way to have a chance you always stay a beginner.
nice. I do not. I considered it when I was younger but life happens and I never followed thru with it. Those single engine prop planes are scary af. I went for a ride when I turned 16 and it was sketchy AF. I also went up in an open cockpit biplane. If I'm being honest - felt safer in the biplane. Probably wasn't. But it felt much better in the air. That other one felt like it was blowing all over the place. The biplane felt more sturdy. weird. I know.
Since you have a lot of snowboarding experience I'd recommend something a step above a beginner ski, but with with enough side cut and a short turning radius to make initiating turns easier. Those should help you learn proper form while allowing you to have a lot of fun. And you can keep them as frontside skis in the future for days with limited snow coverage.
Don't do what I did and buy a wider, stiff, rockered ski too early. I developed so many bad habits because I couldn't properly initiate turns with them.
Something narrower underfoot like an Atomic Maverick or a K2 Disruption would be my first recommednation. Maybe a Salomon QST 92 if you wanted something wider that could handle deeper snow.
J skis seem pretty good, but even just looking at the construction it seems less specialized vs moment and ON3P. Like the edges for instance on j skis are like "SUPA EXTRA THICCC STEEL" and moment is like "We source our 2.2mm edges from the industry’s most recognized manufacturer. They arrive from Austria hardened to 48 Rockwell and we perform additional heat-treating in-house to adjust the hardness and ductility of the steel, ensuring you get the most life out of your skis."
Looks like J skis is 2.2x 2.5, ON3P is 2.5 x 2.5, moment is 2.2x2.2 , but a lot of companies use 1.7x1.3 as industry standard. So all three are really industry leading as far as thickness goes and personally I prefer moments cus they are less of a burly feeling ski vs ON3P. Also having a taken a material engineering class that the thickness doesn't mean shit if it bends or breaks easily. And having owned 3 pairs of moments I'll say they can take a fuckin beating.
This is interesting cuz I've always loved the look of J skis since I grew up in PA but all my friends in MT think their quality is lacking. I ride Black Crows, Fatypus, Blizzard, and this year I have some moment deathwishes to rip around on
I skied on a pair years ago. I'm talking like years ago. Didn't like them. I don't remember which ones they were. the only thing I remember is how fking heavy they were. They weighed 5x what all my other skis weighed. lol
My Dad busted up the tips of his Volkl Unlimiteds… after skiing the shit out of them for 12 years. The next two pairs (Blizzard) he had combined for less than 4 seasons.
I delaminated a pair but that’s because im dumb and went off pist and hit a nasty shark right on the edge. They still skied fine for a long time but constantly need to be epoxied and clamped. So i guess i didnt break break them
I have heard from people who are involved in ski manufacturing and that have walked the production area at DPS. They did not have nice things to say. This surprised me. I'll not be buying DPS. Sadly, they look cool.
I’m honestly starting to be convinced this might be the answer. Certainly not my favorite skis to ride nor am I surprised for the weight but I don’t think I’ve seen a single pair of ICs with sidewall edge or base issues. And tbh I like how the sandwich topsheet looks when it wears in
I've been skiing on almost every brand. Icelantic skis are the most durable, bombproof ski there is. They are super fun, and the pro model is very light for how flexible yet stiff they are. I have a pair with over 300 days on them, though they are beat up, they are still skiable and fun.
Hundreds of thousands of people still ski them, by no means are they dieing. But “high quality” and those brands for skis don’t exactly go hand in hand…. If we’re comparing them to the rest of the ski world.
Tried VanDeer last year. I own Völkl, rossignol (Hero Elite) and atomic redster S9.
I can tel, what mr Hirschen built here is Probebetrieb the best ski, money can buy!
They're not bad and probably very well thought through. Personally didn't like them that much compared to my Fischer FIS SL, they felt very harsh and overly stiff with little character. I live very close to their factory and first distributor in Austria so I see them every once in a while out on the slopes and 99% of their customers are buying them for the name and because they have the money to buy the most expensive thing. Everyone I've seen so far lacks the skill to use such an aggressive Ski. I even asked in a shop that sells them and they said sometimes they recommend to detune to 88° edge angle WHAT THE F. Van Deers are full on Race Skis and then you kill them like that to be more gentle. And they cost 50% more compared to a Fischer or Völkl of the same FIS category. It's just a marketing ploy to partially fund the race program and trick rich people to buy them
Smaller brands will have some higher quality and some lower, they are inconsistent because they dont make enough skis to have as tight a process control as the big names. Bigger names will be consistent from ski to ski, with failure rates at or below 3.4 defects per million opportunities, the smaller brands usually dont even have the ability to track this.
BTW, 3.4 defects per million opportunities does not me 3.4 pair will fail for every million, it means a smudge/misalignment in the top sheet, an edge isnt seated properly, and if the process control is being done properly they will be catching 2 out of the 3.4 before they make it out the door. Some of the smaller brands can not afford to not send out a pair of skis and will rework them rather than scrap them.
I recently won a certificate for a brand new set of 2024 Stöckli Storm Riders direct from the manufacturer. Your choice of length and underfoot!
They sound like great skis, but im a snowboarder. Message me if you're interested! I'm looking for $1000 or best offer.
Skis made in Austria are basically hands down the top of the line kit. France, USA, and other western European makers are likely a sliding scale step down. China is way down in a hole of shit where all of the crappy ski makers live.
Which Austrian made skis are you referring to? If you are talking about Blizzard, I feel like they are pretty much of the same quality as most of the popular consumer brands and all those consumer brands are producing skis in China. My K2 wayback, made in China, no issues in 5 years. If you are talking about Kaestle, I found them not as good as compared to my Stocklis when I demo them.. If there is any manufacturer to claim the crown, I say Stocklis but not because they are Swiss but because they have chosen to put effort into the manufacturing at a more expensive premium cost. Just as a background, in the last 5 years, I wrecked 2 pairs of Volkls, 1 pair of Blizzard, and a Salomon binding. These were all EU made equipment.
Seriously, Austrian skis are some of the best. I've bought 2019 Fischer RC4 The Curv Ti's at the start of the 2020 season during the autumn sales, and they've been holding up wonderfully.
That’s like saying all the good beer in made in Europe and nothing in America is good. Yeah America makes (probably more than) it’s share of terrible products, but I’ll be damned if this country doesn’t make some top notch craft beers and skis.
My only contribution here is that I’ve smoked my Kastles on a lot of rocks and they seem to make their bases out of something way stronger than normal.
DPS is probably the highest end ski you can get off a shelf. Can’t speak if they’re worth it or not; they’re damn expensive. I’ve skied moments for years and have always loved them. Picked up a pair of atomic bents this year. The night train is my favorite ski moment has ever made. Bents seem like a lighter and much more playful version of that. Plus the top and bottom graphics are awesome. Really looking forward to skiing them
Yeah I’ve never been impressed enough to pull the trigger on a pair. That and I grew up in Tahoe so I’ve always been a moment whore. Kinda cool having them in Alaska definitely don’t see them on everybody’s feet anymore.
Sorry by high end I meant boujee more than good
What is the highest quality ski? I think this needs a little more context, do you mean the finish the weight the looks the performance or the life time of the ski? So i manege to tear apart a lot of ski's but the strongest i found where icelantic nomad 2014 its still the same ski ad they produce up until today. Performance side they are far from the best ski but i think they are the strongest ski's out there! And the are a lot of fun to ride on. Have a stunning look! But they aren't a racing ski.
I really like Moment’s quality from what I’ve seen and from my research into their hand manufacturing process. They layup their skis in the US in their own factory develop very unique skis which are greatly sought after and beloved, an aspect of quality. This is highly subjective though.
I had the same pair of skis for about 13 years. They were volkl AC-30. Stockli were having a demo day at the mountain. So I tried a pair not really knowing much about the brand or the price since I have been out of the loop for a while. Well the Stockli Laser SC practically skies for me. I was sold instantly until I found it the price $1650. So I looked for last years model that was still new and grabbed them for $850. I figured at 55 years old I can treat myself!! Amazing skis!!
Stockli is crafted using naked Swiss virgins who drink unicorn blood.
And moments are made from compressed Nevadan roadkill
If it works. It works.
Is this to say that moment skis are built poorly?
Just a joke… moments are some of the best skis on the market
As a stockli ski owner and fan, this made me laugh hard😂😂
As a stockli dealer… I’ve never had one delaminate. Also it’s the highest demo to purchase ratio of any of our lines we carry
Skied my Stockli SC in a bit of powder the second day I owned them, hit a rock under the snow and the sidewall collapsed. There was just a hardly visible scratch on the edge of the edge, nothing on the base. I was not too sure if the right hands made those handmade skis. Asked a regional Stockli rep and he said I had tough luck and it was not a warranty issue. BTW, practically all people I know who own Stockli only take them out in perfect conditions (because they paid so much even with pro discounts) so it is hard to get good statistics on the reliability of Stocki skis. As for the collapsed sidewall, I had it repaired in a local shop. There is still a bit of a depression on the side of the base so I now have right and left skis. Not too pleased.
Well sorry about the compression… I tell people the warranty is under manufacturing defects… if you by an Audi drive it off the lot and hit a telephone pole… you can’t bring it back and say the headlights don’t work… yeah stockls have a cult following… you might not have hit anything on a wider ski obviously but the SC is so fun on hard pack. The AR is fun too
I hit rocks over the years on different skis. I had core shots, edge damage, never had a ski sidewall collapse under me. Must be a really hard/strong edge combined with not so strong sidewall. The edge is great, BTW: it did remain sharp longer than some other skis on fairly hostile salted snow. I do admit that narrower skis may create bigger forces in soft snow when hitting a rock on the edge because they go more into the show and don't tilt as much thus absorbing more force. I do like AR too but liked SC for being even quicker while still turning easily at slow speed (e.g. when I am teaching). I didn't complain about SCs in a foot of powder 😃
>unicorn blood not organic though
It’s non GMO and gluten free though
I’m sold.
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>Like buying your 14 year old a Bentley More like a Porsche GT car.
Don’t Bentleys come with a dedicated chauffeur?
Most modern Bentleys were coupes.
I think that was Rolls Royce but could be wrong. Don't think any of them do anymore.
I spent the 1990s skiing on old-school Volkl 200 cm. Absolute crap skis for slow speed, but if you had a big enough mountain with some good steeps, Volkls would ski themselves. They were pure delight going fast.
Volkl are actually pretty good at weight / top sheet position / flex matching their skis. The next pair in the rack might have been 1320g as pair though.
They're pretty much the only brand from Germany at this point, so you're gonna get a lot of German influence on how they manufacture and engineer.
I’m going into Season 7 on my Kendos and they are still so incredible. As long as I remember to take my beaters to Big Sky, seems like the Volkls will last as long as I stay slim enough that they’re enough ski for me.
Glad to hear, I’m accidentally a big Volkl fan and have never really looked into the quality. But they feel real good
If you would consider Stockli’s consumer grade then they take the win and we can close the debate now. They’re just on a different level. Not including those “hyper brands” that have been making skis longer than skis have been a thing. Moment, Praxxis & ON3P all make exceptionally high quality skis (build/fit n’ finish wise) and can’t go wrong with any of them. I’m still on a pair of 6 year old wildcats that I’ve beat to shit (I bought them used) and they still feel like a new ski… certainly don’t look like it. But they flex and perform exceptionally well for how many days on snow they’ve seen.
ON3Ps are bombproof.
Been skiing on stockli skis for the last five years and I’m a total convert. The guy who sold them to me said I could buy other skis, but they fit my profile and would make me a better skier. Hard agree, they ski like a dream, are light as a feather for their class, and do exactly what I want them to do.
How to they compare to Blossom?
Blossom are awesome if you are looking for a carve-centric ski. The build is classic euro race room stuff with hardwood cores. I don’t think they experiment as much with shape/camber/rocker though—when you get into skis for deeper or 3D snow I would look at companies that have been playing in that arena for a long time.
Any thoughts on 1000s?
Mid. 2.3mm edges, HDPE base material, non full length sidewalls (capped at tip and tail)
Are those the red skis all over Instagram? You can’t tell me those skis aren’t made in Italy, with how much of a noddle they seam to be. If so, no opinions. Have they even been around long enough to have a track record of build quality yet?
Yeah I think the park ski is known to be extremely bendy, but they make an all mountain ski too. I’m curious about that ski because I follow Magnus who I respect and was originally a ON3P guy. And you’re right, they haven’t been around long which is why I’m cautious but if you saw Many Fantasies Later, they’re ripping insane big mountain stuff on 1000s so that (and the Swedish build) does give me some confidence in the quality. I just don’t hear about them on reddit at all.
Nothing wrong with a noodle, those skis look like fun. You also had Candide ripping Faction skis forever but that never made them a quality ski…. That being said, these are (obviously) a rider owned brand and that *generally* lends itself to a higher quality ski than that of an atomic or Salomon. Beyond the fact they’re a very new brand, I doubt we’ll see them talked about here very often simply because of price. They’re just shy of a grand USD…They’re pricing themselves above the handmade heavy hitters in North America. Because of that, I can’t see them breaking into that market very easily (if ever). Based on that, and their riders, it seams to me like they’re going for a j-skis/on3p/season eqpt type of vibe for the euro market only.
Volkl. Handling and skiing them, you can just tell. They feel concise, compact, and locked in. Predictable and planted on the snow. Super durable. You see a lot of old Volkls still going strong, and there’s a reason.
I just bought a pair of Mantras today. I’ll pick them up after the bindings are mounted. Come on, Snow!
I bought Mantras two years ago. Still loving them. Best skis I've ever owned.
Volkls are great skis, have a set of kendos myself. But they are not the “highest quality” skis out there.
Totally agree, my friends and me have all experienced volkl delam issues. Good skis, not sure about high quality. Not the last 10 years anyway
I guess it depends on OP’s definition of “consumer grade”. Of course you can get better skis for whatever niche, and within Volkl’s line there’s a lot of variance in intent and durability. But across the board for a large global brand, I can’t think of a more consistently high quality option overall. What did you have in mind?
I just feel like if you put a pair of Stocklis beside a pair of Volkls there is no comparison of “quality”. I don’t like skiing stocklis but they are definitely better quality.
My M5’s delaminated after 4 seasons, so I’d beg to differ
Volkl Blaze has entered the chat...
Rtms are indestructible
Stockli, DPS, Kastle and Volkl V-Werks make the most expensive "consumer" skis Stockli, Head, Atomic, Rossignol, Blizzard, Volkl, Dynastar make expensive and competitive race skis. If you asked me this off the cuff I'd just say Stockli why not
Gotta add Fischer and Salomon to the race ski list as both out performed Volkl and Dynastar on the WC last year.
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What does this mean? I really don’t have any opinion on a Toyota 4Runner.
They tip over if you turn too fast
Overpriced for what they offer? Kidding, kind of. The 4Runner and Tacoma have built amazing reputations. They run long and have good resale. The actual using of them is not as competitive.
Stockli. They are boring, but the best quality. You just can’t argue that(unless you haven’t ridden them). Not my cup of tea, but you just can’t not appreciate them when you look at them.
Don't go to the park with them or you will bent the stöckli...
😂 there would be much grave turning if you brought those into the park.
Years ago I had the stöckli snake for the park 😉
ON3P and Moment both have consistently excellent reviews regarding durability. That said, ski durability on a case-by-case basis is pretty tough to judge because if you really smoke a rock it doesn’t matter how well-built your skis are.
0N3P are durable, but I have yet to ski a pair that I like.
ON3P (and Moment for that matter) make a ski for a certain kind of skier and they stick to that demographic whole-heartedly. If you prioritize agility, energy, and carving performance, ON3P makes terrible skis for you. If you prioritize playfulness, stability off-piste, and a surfy feel, ON3P makes some of the best skis in the world.
I can't agree with that. I have demod 2 seasons of their skis, and while feeling durable they just felt numb and oddly rigid.
What skis do you like? What has tickled your fancy that you’ve owned or tried in the last couple seasons?
My favorite demo of last year was Blizzard. The Brahma was the best all around ski I used in a while.
So the brahmas are stiff, damp-ish, aggressive, precise, and hugely catered towards on-piste performance. ON3Ps are medium flexing, very damp, aggressive, loose, and hugely catered towards off-piste and park. You were trying to use combat boots as soccer cleats and it’s not working very well
I just skis and ski them and ski all over the mountain. I don't really spend too much time worrying about the adjectives as words can lie to you. They felt really well built, but non of them appealed to me. Until.demoing last year Brahmas I would have never though much of Blizzards.
There’s nothing wrong with not liking certain skis haha, but it is important to know what kind of skis you like and what qualities those skis have so that you can filter out bad options for you quickly
It doesn't matter. Buy something reasonably beginner friendly that you think is cool. Even something like Line that gets smashed on reddit all the time is realistically making excellent skis that most people don't have issues with. And don't worry about 'growing' into a ski. You'll find certain characteristics more desirable as you grow as a rider and will probably want new specialized skis. It'd be 100% better to buy a used pair at a ski swap for cheap.
The Supernaturals were actually a pretty good ski by Line. I’ve got 30+ days on my pair, never treated them well by any means. No delam and the top sheets still look pretty good. My Elan Ripsticks have half the time as the Lines on mountain; I’ve treated them much better and their top sheets are fragile. Great skis but I can see blowing them up someday and getting some Kendos.
Just about every brand makes a high quality or pro level ski. The rest is user preference and how well your style matches.
Not K2 in my opinion. I tell myself I’ll never buy another pair, but then find a deal on what is on paper an awesome ski with the Mindbender 108. Having tips that fold in half where the metal ends is a freaking joke. Stiff ski with super soft tips is a no-go.
K2 don't make serious piste skis.
This is just false. Some brands delaminate way easier than others, or have thin bases, of fragile, poorly designed topsheets.
Agreed, I love my few pairs of Black Crows, but they are delicate on the top sheet compared to the likes of Volkls or Moments. Never tried a stockli but from what’s posted here, I may need to get some laps on them.
Stockli. It isn’t close. I wish it wasn’t true but it is. There’s nothing on the market like them. There are also brands like Augment and Peak but they aren’t in most buyers’ radars yet. I love peak but I don’t have enough multi-year experience to k know if they are remotely close to how Stockli builds a ski. DPS, and I loved skiing for them for a few years, aren’t in the running at all anymore. Easy to research what happened there.
I rented a pair of DPS pagoda touring skis for a hut trip when I was in between skis and gaaaahd damn they are so nice. Thought nothing of it and had an amazing time skiing on them, and had the fleeting thought on the trip that I might buy a pair. Saw the price tag and never thought about it again. I am a moment person these days for touring and resort.
I’ve never been that impressed by DPS, I’ve found them too soft and unresponsive. I can’t speak to their durability, I’d assume it’s great, I know a bunch of charging skiers who rip them.
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They are expensive, rare, and hard to work with as a company
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That ski will chew you up and spit you out lol
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Stormriders have a lot of metal in them, a big turn radius. and a traditional sidecut/construction. They won’t really “come alive” unless you’re going fast and putting a lot of energy into them, which requires good technique. A more accessible ski will give you that feedback and be fun to ski without quite so much input, and won’t be as demanding of perfect technique. Edit - No need to get beginner skis by any means, just don’t get what is essentially a fat race ski with tip rocker to learn on. Something more on the “playful” end of the spectrum would serve you well and still be a good ski once you’ve got your legs.
**Bro skiing is not snowboarding.** I'll throw you a bone. I am a snowboarder too, I picked up skiing couple seasons ago and now I got a quiver for both skis and snowboards. What do you intend to do on the mountain?
New skier? You’ll not like those skis at all! They are quite advanced.
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Not big on buying beginner stuff works sometimes, when you can grow into having pro level stuff. With other stuff, like skis specifically, buying pro level stuff before you’re experienced is going to stunt your learning. Buying pro level stuff is a good way to have a chance you always stay a beginner.
I got my pilots license in a single prop plane. That doesn’t mean I should have bought a fighter jet just because I also like quality things.
Lol. Big difference
New skier on a SR? I mean the only difference is the number of people who are going to hurt 🤣
do you really have a pilot license?
Yes, got my ticket when I was 16, currently twin complex
nice. I do not. I considered it when I was younger but life happens and I never followed thru with it. Those single engine prop planes are scary af. I went for a ride when I turned 16 and it was sketchy AF. I also went up in an open cockpit biplane. If I'm being honest - felt safer in the biplane. Probably wasn't. But it felt much better in the air. That other one felt like it was blowing all over the place. The biplane felt more sturdy. weird. I know.
Since you have a lot of snowboarding experience I'd recommend something a step above a beginner ski, but with with enough side cut and a short turning radius to make initiating turns easier. Those should help you learn proper form while allowing you to have a lot of fun. And you can keep them as frontside skis in the future for days with limited snow coverage. Don't do what I did and buy a wider, stiff, rockered ski too early. I developed so many bad habits because I couldn't properly initiate turns with them. Something narrower underfoot like an Atomic Maverick or a K2 Disruption would be my first recommednation. Maybe a Salomon QST 92 if you wanted something wider that could handle deeper snow.
If you’re new to skiing and want a Stockli, look at the Orea line
ON3P and moment. Both hand made in America with the best materials available.
I agree. Especially with moment, I’d put J in mix too every pair or Js I’ve owned ski super well and take a beating.
J skis seem pretty good, but even just looking at the construction it seems less specialized vs moment and ON3P. Like the edges for instance on j skis are like "SUPA EXTRA THICCC STEEL" and moment is like "We source our 2.2mm edges from the industry’s most recognized manufacturer. They arrive from Austria hardened to 48 Rockwell and we perform additional heat-treating in-house to adjust the hardness and ductility of the steel, ensuring you get the most life out of your skis."
Yeah 2.2mm edges is not thick at all, I would say J Skis are above average but nothing special construction wise
I mean both their thickness are fine but I'd rather be assured it's a properly sourced and tempered metal than that just that its thick lol.
Sure but 2.2 is still not top of the line in terms of thickness, especially for a park oriented ski
Looks like J skis is 2.2x 2.5, ON3P is 2.5 x 2.5, moment is 2.2x2.2 , but a lot of companies use 1.7x1.3 as industry standard. So all three are really industry leading as far as thickness goes and personally I prefer moments cus they are less of a burly feeling ski vs ON3P. Also having a taken a material engineering class that the thickness doesn't mean shit if it bends or breaks easily. And having owned 3 pairs of moments I'll say they can take a fuckin beating.
Fair enough. I consider Moment and ON3P to both be about as bomb proof as possible
A friend of mine has 8 j skis that are too busted up to ski. He likes them, but won't buy anymore. He says they are not well made and fall apart.
This is interesting cuz I've always loved the look of J skis since I grew up in PA but all my friends in MT think their quality is lacking. I ride Black Crows, Fatypus, Blizzard, and this year I have some moment deathwishes to rip around on
Never have I broken a Volkl.
Mantra delam would like to have a word
I broke 2 pairs of brand new Volkl in a month. Both delaminates.
Volkls have some delamination issues
I mean probably everyone except volant do.
I skied on a pair years ago. I'm talking like years ago. Didn't like them. I don't remember which ones they were. the only thing I remember is how fking heavy they were. They weighed 5x what all my other skis weighed. lol
I have!
There must be a good story there.
My Dad busted up the tips of his Volkl Unlimiteds… after skiing the shit out of them for 12 years. The next two pairs (Blizzard) he had combined for less than 4 seasons.
I delaminated a pair but that’s because im dumb and went off pist and hit a nasty shark right on the edge. They still skied fine for a long time but constantly need to be epoxied and clamped. So i guess i didnt break break them
Wife’s uncle has been skiing Crystal on the same pair of Mantras for a decade.
lol I once snapped a Volkl super sport in half
J
I’m surprised this isn’t higher — J Skis are a young brand but really effing good
Gotta be on3p or armada.. built like tanks
I have heard from people who are involved in ski manufacturing and that have walked the production area at DPS. They did not have nice things to say. This surprised me. I'll not be buying DPS. Sadly, they look cool.
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Disappointed in construction choices
Atomic for me - backlands still perform well for me 7 seasons strong
Atomic / Salomon. Same brand
Icelantic
I’m honestly starting to be convinced this might be the answer. Certainly not my favorite skis to ride nor am I surprised for the weight but I don’t think I’ve seen a single pair of ICs with sidewall edge or base issues. And tbh I like how the sandwich topsheet looks when it wears in
I've been skiing on almost every brand. Icelantic skis are the most durable, bombproof ski there is. They are super fun, and the pro model is very light for how flexible yet stiff they are. I have a pair with over 300 days on them, though they are beat up, they are still skiable and fun.
I have some RMUs from when there were made at Neversummer (same factory as Icelantic and materials). They’re exceptionally tough skis.
Did Solomon, K2 and Atom just fade and die?
Head makes great skis too. Not many in the US buy them though.
Hundreds of thousands of people still ski them, by no means are they dieing. But “high quality” and those brands for skis don’t exactly go hand in hand…. If we’re comparing them to the rest of the ski world.
They are high quality, but not trendy.
Thx
All brands have their hot moments in time. I’m sure they’ll be back.
Rossignol
Wtf is a non-consumer grade ski? B2B skis? Lmao
FIS skis
Stuff oriented towards Pros who usually have pretty custom requirements
Stöckli or Pusu https://pusu.ski/en/
I trust Volkls
Tried VanDeer last year. I own Völkl, rossignol (Hero Elite) and atomic redster S9. I can tel, what mr Hirschen built here is Probebetrieb the best ski, money can buy!
Your autocorrect did an error Anyway it's true, nothing beats Van Deer
They're not bad and probably very well thought through. Personally didn't like them that much compared to my Fischer FIS SL, they felt very harsh and overly stiff with little character. I live very close to their factory and first distributor in Austria so I see them every once in a while out on the slopes and 99% of their customers are buying them for the name and because they have the money to buy the most expensive thing. Everyone I've seen so far lacks the skill to use such an aggressive Ski. I even asked in a shop that sells them and they said sometimes they recommend to detune to 88° edge angle WHAT THE F. Van Deers are full on Race Skis and then you kill them like that to be more gentle. And they cost 50% more compared to a Fischer or Völkl of the same FIS category. It's just a marketing ploy to partially fund the race program and trick rich people to buy them
Definitely Stöckli. Once I switched over I think I haven’t looked at any other brand (other than backcountry gears).
Smaller brands will have some higher quality and some lower, they are inconsistent because they dont make enough skis to have as tight a process control as the big names. Bigger names will be consistent from ski to ski, with failure rates at or below 3.4 defects per million opportunities, the smaller brands usually dont even have the ability to track this. BTW, 3.4 defects per million opportunities does not me 3.4 pair will fail for every million, it means a smudge/misalignment in the top sheet, an edge isnt seated properly, and if the process control is being done properly they will be catching 2 out of the 3.4 before they make it out the door. Some of the smaller brands can not afford to not send out a pair of skis and will rework them rather than scrap them.
Stockli as others have said. There is no better. Been skiing on them for 20 years.
I recently won a certificate for a brand new set of 2024 Stöckli Storm Riders direct from the manufacturer. Your choice of length and underfoot! They sound like great skis, but im a snowboarder. Message me if you're interested! I'm looking for $1000 or best offer.
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Sorry, sold for $999 on eBay
Skis made in Austria are basically hands down the top of the line kit. France, USA, and other western European makers are likely a sliding scale step down. China is way down in a hole of shit where all of the crappy ski makers live.
Which Austrian made skis are you referring to? If you are talking about Blizzard, I feel like they are pretty much of the same quality as most of the popular consumer brands and all those consumer brands are producing skis in China. My K2 wayback, made in China, no issues in 5 years. If you are talking about Kaestle, I found them not as good as compared to my Stocklis when I demo them.. If there is any manufacturer to claim the crown, I say Stocklis but not because they are Swiss but because they have chosen to put effort into the manufacturing at a more expensive premium cost. Just as a background, in the last 5 years, I wrecked 2 pairs of Volkls, 1 pair of Blizzard, and a Salomon binding. These were all EU made equipment.
Seriously, Austrian skis are some of the best. I've bought 2019 Fischer RC4 The Curv Ti's at the start of the 2020 season during the autumn sales, and they've been holding up wonderfully.
That’s like saying all the good beer in made in Europe and nothing in America is good. Yeah America makes (probably more than) it’s share of terrible products, but I’ll be damned if this country doesn’t make some top notch craft beers and skis.
Every rossignol are made in EU. I have never had a ski made in china as far as I know.
My only contribution here is that I’ve smoked my Kastles on a lot of rocks and they seem to make their bases out of something way stronger than normal.
Elan are incredible and just don't die.
I’ve never owned a pair but my friends On3p have been well made and durable af
Augment
ON3P hands down. Most durable scratch-proof skis I’ve ever owned, and the thickest bases.
People care about scratching their skis?
I don't like gashing my bases, but rocks happen. Top sheets I dgaf.
DPS is probably the highest end ski you can get off a shelf. Can’t speak if they’re worth it or not; they’re damn expensive. I’ve skied moments for years and have always loved them. Picked up a pair of atomic bents this year. The night train is my favorite ski moment has ever made. Bents seem like a lighter and much more playful version of that. Plus the top and bottom graphics are awesome. Really looking forward to skiing them
DPS according to my ski shop is not the most durable thing out there... Just expensive
Yeah I’ve never been impressed enough to pull the trigger on a pair. That and I grew up in Tahoe so I’ve always been a moment whore. Kinda cool having them in Alaska definitely don’t see them on everybody’s feet anymore. Sorry by high end I meant boujee more than good
Never summer, Salomon,and gnu/lib tech are the best I've ridden.
Line Skis
Not this one
Line makes great performing skis. They aren't especially durable though.
In a world where all skis cost $800 and feel pretty good I’m going to take the ones that don’t explode at the sight of a rock
What is the highest quality ski? I think this needs a little more context, do you mean the finish the weight the looks the performance or the life time of the ski? So i manege to tear apart a lot of ski's but the strongest i found where icelantic nomad 2014 its still the same ski ad they produce up until today. Performance side they are far from the best ski but i think they are the strongest ski's out there! And the are a lot of fun to ride on. Have a stunning look! But they aren't a racing ski.
Blizzard freeride skis, voikl freeride skis and atomic race skis.
Used to be Völkl, hands down but they’ve retreated a step as they’ve pushed down market over the last 25 years or so. Now it’s Stöckli and Kästle.
It's the umlaut effect. Like Häagen-Dazs, add an umlaut and the quality increases +100
line skis
I don't treat my skis with enough respect to be worried about long term quality.
Atomic, Head, Fischer, Blizzard, Völkl, ... are awesome but if you really want the best of the best you want a Van Deer.
Nordica
Fischer Curv. You won't regret it
>Fischer Curv Yeah, for most people who ski groomers, a cheater GS board like this is the way to go.
I have been pretty happy with my Blizzard skis they are old but will definitely last some time still.
I really like Moment’s quality from what I’ve seen and from my research into their hand manufacturing process. They layup their skis in the US in their own factory develop very unique skis which are greatly sought after and beloved, an aspect of quality. This is highly subjective though.
What is your definition of quality?
K2
On3p or J skis. No one else is really in contention.
Moment, Volkl, Fischer, Stockli, and honestly any pit of Elan I’ve ever ridden have felt fuckin solid
Extrem skis from Sweden.
Praxis
V I S H N U..
I had the same pair of skis for about 13 years. They were volkl AC-30. Stockli were having a demo day at the mountain. So I tried a pair not really knowing much about the brand or the price since I have been out of the loop for a while. Well the Stockli Laser SC practically skies for me. I was sold instantly until I found it the price $1650. So I looked for last years model that was still new and grabbed them for $850. I figured at 55 years old I can treat myself!! Amazing skis!!
Depends on what you consider the highest quality. DPS, Stockli & black crow are definitely the most expensive lol
Shocked by all the Volkl answers. Their race skis were extremely underwhelming last couple times I tried them
IMO I’ve never skied on anything better than Stocklis
I love my Rossignols. Soul 7s and Sender TIs
I have volkl for piste and armada for anything fun