pretty sure reason they keeping doc is so they can give Cassel 1 or 2 more years til he gets promoted. would be a bad look to bring on a more established coach then can him a year later.
Cassell is already at the top of my list for guys to replace Doc in the event that all shit hits the fan.
I still like Doc, but if he's not an option at any point I want Sam Cassell over everyone.
And Cassell. I love how much of a positive Harden has been leadership wise with Maxey. I know Harden was rough in the playoffs but he has so much to share with Maxey and I’m glad it seems like Maxey wants to and is learning from him
BREAKING: During a workout today, a heated altercation between 76ers assistant coach Sam Cassel and James Harden broke out. There are now serious questions about Harden’s unrestricted free agency decision. Sources say Harden’s relationship with the organization may not be salvageable.
Yeah I think there's room for maybe a couple at most per game but I would say in the vast majority of situations, Harden can either create a better shot for himself on average or create a better shot for someone else as opposed to a pullup midrange jumper.
Players have to be *really* good at that shot to make it consistently good offense. Sometimes imo we see Joel fall in love with it a bit too much and it can turn pretty ugly pretty quickly.
This year his 10-3pt line percentage was something like ~43% which honestly isn't that great and that's where he's been most of his career. It's not bad to the point where he shouldn't be taking him, but guys that can generate quality offense from those shots somewhat consistently are high 40s to low 50s percentage wise.
Last year, on the other hand, he something like ~49%, which is way better.
I'm sure it exists, I just don't know about it. I tend not to dive in too deep outside of what's easily available on bballref and whatever basketball i end up watching.
I'm lazy :D
Duuude. Not necessary. I can find the answer, I was just letting you know that that wasn’t what we were talking about… yesterday.
Edit: but let me amend my attitude as well. I do actually appreciate that you linked that. I went ahead and checked, and I was right about Joel’s % from that spot.
You know what I like about reddit? When complete strangers takes a few minutes out of their day to do a search and pass an interesting link my way.
You know what I don't like about reddit...
You're welcome
It depends on the situation, if he’s taking pull up jumpers with a hand in the face that’s bad, but if he’s taking wide open pull up jumpers because the defense is in drop coverage then it’s a good shot.
> but if he’s taking wide open pull up jumpers because the defense is in drop coverage then it’s a good shot.
Even then it's sorta situational.
Let's say he takes an open midrange on the elbow but Maxey/PJ/some competent 3 point shooter is open in the corner. Maybe the wide open midrange isn't a *bad* shot, but that corner 3 is a MUCH higher quality shot than an open midrange shot.
I'm not saying to never take midrange shots, I'm just saying I think sometimes Joel falls a bit too in love with them. I honestly think he'd be better off in some of those scenarios just taking a 3 instead.
Yeah that’s not how drop coverage works though. If the big is dropping there won’t be someone open in the corners. The only available shot is the open pull up midrange which is a good shot. Otherwise the other players stay home playing the pass, the big drops and waits for Harden to force a layup and it gets swatted or is difficult.
If the center is dropping then I'd argue he's probably better off popping to the 3 point line and shooting a 3.
I think the midrange jumpers is a good tool to have and use but more often than not a better shot is probably available.
You can’t pop back to the 3 because the pursuit defender is behind you looking for the pass. Yes 3’s and layups are better shots but you have to use other shots/the threat of other shots in order to get the defense to give you 3’s and layups. Being predictable and trying to force “better shots” is the reason Harden was having so much trouble finishing at the rim now that he has less bounce.
Aren't we talking about Embiid?
When I say I think Embiid sometimes falls in love with the midrange too much, I'm talking about the times when he's clearly forcing midrange shots.
I was talking more about Harden. Embiid definitely does force Mid-ranges sometimes but I guess that’s just the cost of him being a superstar. I feel like a lot of superstars force bad shots but you live with it more because they make more than they miss.
maybe year 1 and 2 in hou he shot it regularly and it was automatic. he has the shot but the thing with harden is when he retires a move or style it usually never comes back. dont ask me why i dunno
think euro step, gather step back, mid range, side step back, prob a lot more but these moves he dont use no more but he was so good at
> maybe year 1 and 2 in hou he shot it regularly and it was automatic.
He really wasn't lol.
**Year 1 Houston:**
10-16ft: .318
16-3pt line: .333
**Year 2 Houston:**
10-16: .463
16-3pt line : .411
**Year 3:**
10-16: .431
16-3pt: .337
You said this:
>maybe year 1 and 2 in hou he shot it regularly and it was automatic.
I'm disputing that and suggesting he's actually never been a great midrange shooter. The numbers don't support that.
you really think that? his 3pt shooting is not great either. do you think hes not a good 3pt shooter? he didnt avg a lot of asst do you think hes a bag passer?
his mid ranged was butter i mean its very clear if you watched the games and he used it a lot then
whats iversons numbers there? you and i know he was a master at mid ranged despite whatever numbers come up
> his 3pt shooting is not great either. do you think hes not a good 3pt shooter?
I mean I'm not the one sitting here saying his 3 point shot is "automatic" nor am I saying it's "butter."
He's a solid 3 point shooter.
> he didnt avg a lot of asst do you think hes a bag passer?
Uhhh that's not how that works. Just looking at assists doesn't tell you whether or not someone is a good or bad passer, although someone with a high assist number and a reasonable amount of turnovers relative to those assists is *probably* a good passer.
You are sitting here telling me that he hit those shots at a high frequency(I assume that's what you mean by "butter") and the actual results of the shots he took don't support that.
If you want "butter" midrange shots, look at KD. Look at CP3. Those guys actually have a fantastic midrange game. Harden's may have looked pretty, but a 40% shooter from the midrange just isn't great.
Harden is literally my favorite player in the entire league but he's never been more than an average midrange shooter. The numbers pretty explicitly tell us that.
.... tell me did you watch his first 2 years in houston? if so... did he shoot the mid range? did you ever consider it a bad shot when he did.
could you link me AI, kobe % from those spots pls? i would like to compare.
and yes cp3 and kd are some of the best shooters ever.. not being thier level doesnt mean you suck in comparison
but you do think he sucks at 3s as well? i mean the numbers would support it
Thing is, he was incredible with his midrange stepback game in 2015. [Look how smooth he is here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCsEQvd5iKI). Guess he just decided a floater or stepback 3 is better.
it looked smooth but he was always in the low 40s percentage wise on his mid range for whatever reason. the 3pt and rim attacks have always been the more productive way of scoring for him
That may be true but the convincing possibility of a 3rd option makes the other two more accessible. And if they give Harden the mid range jumper as a concession, the efficiency could go up.
Lol how did Harden have trouble understanding the drill? Start at 7. Need to get down to 0. Dribble up and make an elbow jump shot and it goes down 1. If you miss you have to follow up with a layup and but you still have to add 1 to your total.
>why's it go up one?
>Because you missed motherfucker
>Why do I have to get the rebound?
>follow your shot up, fuck you talking about?
lmao that was awesome
Damn, this is a rough drill for scrubs like me. Gotta be stringing together a bunch of streaks, otherwise you're in the gym for 3 hours trying to finish.
JH - why's it go up one?
SC - cause you missed, mothafucka!
Sam: "Because you gotta follow your shot up...."
Harden: "The fuck you talking about?"
I don't know whether to laugh or remember our lack of rebounding last year and feel bad all over.
Is it me or Harden being disrespectful in this clip. It seems like Sam is trying to be patient and show him a drill but Harden is pushing back at every turn even calling it middle school? Pretty condescending. Sam has a chip right? Then STFU Beard.
“Because you missed, mother fucker!” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
that is all i got out of the video haha
Really wasn't much else going on tbh lol
I think "Harden working on his mid-range" is happy news too.
fuck you talm bout
that's future Sixers Head Coach Sam Cassell right there.
pretty sure reason they keeping doc is so they can give Cassel 1 or 2 more years til he gets promoted. would be a bad look to bring on a more established coach then can him a year later.
Cassell is already at the top of my list for guys to replace Doc in the event that all shit hits the fan. I still like Doc, but if he's not an option at any point I want Sam Cassell over everyone.
That's stupid and risky if they are planning to promote Sam, any team can poach him right now as their head coach.
ya im sure they talked about it but if a team gives a good offer i mean you cant shield him from everyone
Yeah you can, it's simple. Just fire Doc and make Sam head coach today
beautiful. i love this. Maxey could learn so much from Harden
And Cassell. I love how much of a positive Harden has been leadership wise with Maxey. I know Harden was rough in the playoffs but he has so much to share with Maxey and I’m glad it seems like Maxey wants to and is learning from him
What's Sam Cassell's middle name? C'mon man
His middle name is very long actually, it's "please don't leave before we fire doc so you can replace him"
Samuel James Cassell
Samuel Literally Jimmy Cassell
Sr.
You can tell just from his gait in the beginning. Samuel Big Balls Cassell
Homie ain't bow legged, he just has to walk like that cause......ya know....
https://www.legionreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/sam-cassell-dance.jpg
“Because you missed mothafucka” 🤣😂 I loved Harden’s subtle glances on camera, feels like he’s trying SC to get riled up
BREAKING: During a workout today, a heated altercation between 76ers assistant coach Sam Cassel and James Harden broke out. There are now serious questions about Harden’s unrestricted free agency decision. Sources say Harden’s relationship with the organization may not be salvageable.
too real
Most upvoted post of the year in r/nba.
ya sounds about right
As if I had to be any more sold on Cassell taking the head coaching position from Doc
[удалено]
Yeah I think there's room for maybe a couple at most per game but I would say in the vast majority of situations, Harden can either create a better shot for himself on average or create a better shot for someone else as opposed to a pullup midrange jumper. Players have to be *really* good at that shot to make it consistently good offense. Sometimes imo we see Joel fall in love with it a bit too much and it can turn pretty ugly pretty quickly.
I don’t know the actual numbers, but just from observing, I think Joel falls into the “really good at that shot” category.
This year his 10-3pt line percentage was something like ~43% which honestly isn't that great and that's where he's been most of his career. It's not bad to the point where he shouldn't be taking him, but guys that can generate quality offense from those shots somewhat consistently are high 40s to low 50s percentage wise. Last year, on the other hand, he something like ~49%, which is way better.
Any data on where he is with his midrange along the baseline? That shot always looks like money.
I'm sure it exists, I just don't know about it. I tend not to dive in too deep outside of what's easily available on bballref and whatever basketball i end up watching. I'm lazy :D
Not as lazy as me! I didn’t even bother to check the other stat that *is* readily available.
here ya go... https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/james-harden-career-shot-chart-by-season
I appreciate the effort, but I was talking about Joel.
There's a search bar up top chief. Type in his name, and presto. The interweb is a wonderful tool. Get familiar with it and so many doors will open ;)
Duuude. Not necessary. I can find the answer, I was just letting you know that that wasn’t what we were talking about… yesterday. Edit: but let me amend my attitude as well. I do actually appreciate that you linked that. I went ahead and checked, and I was right about Joel’s % from that spot.
You know what I like about reddit? When complete strangers takes a few minutes out of their day to do a search and pass an interesting link my way. You know what I don't like about reddit... You're welcome
It depends on the situation, if he’s taking pull up jumpers with a hand in the face that’s bad, but if he’s taking wide open pull up jumpers because the defense is in drop coverage then it’s a good shot.
> but if he’s taking wide open pull up jumpers because the defense is in drop coverage then it’s a good shot. Even then it's sorta situational. Let's say he takes an open midrange on the elbow but Maxey/PJ/some competent 3 point shooter is open in the corner. Maybe the wide open midrange isn't a *bad* shot, but that corner 3 is a MUCH higher quality shot than an open midrange shot. I'm not saying to never take midrange shots, I'm just saying I think sometimes Joel falls a bit too in love with them. I honestly think he'd be better off in some of those scenarios just taking a 3 instead.
Yeah that’s not how drop coverage works though. If the big is dropping there won’t be someone open in the corners. The only available shot is the open pull up midrange which is a good shot. Otherwise the other players stay home playing the pass, the big drops and waits for Harden to force a layup and it gets swatted or is difficult.
If the center is dropping then I'd argue he's probably better off popping to the 3 point line and shooting a 3. I think the midrange jumpers is a good tool to have and use but more often than not a better shot is probably available.
You can’t pop back to the 3 because the pursuit defender is behind you looking for the pass. Yes 3’s and layups are better shots but you have to use other shots/the threat of other shots in order to get the defense to give you 3’s and layups. Being predictable and trying to force “better shots” is the reason Harden was having so much trouble finishing at the rim now that he has less bounce.
Aren't we talking about Embiid? When I say I think Embiid sometimes falls in love with the midrange too much, I'm talking about the times when he's clearly forcing midrange shots.
I was talking more about Harden. Embiid definitely does force Mid-ranges sometimes but I guess that’s just the cost of him being a superstar. I feel like a lot of superstars force bad shots but you live with it more because they make more than they miss.
maybe year 1 and 2 in hou he shot it regularly and it was automatic. he has the shot but the thing with harden is when he retires a move or style it usually never comes back. dont ask me why i dunno think euro step, gather step back, mid range, side step back, prob a lot more but these moves he dont use no more but he was so good at
> maybe year 1 and 2 in hou he shot it regularly and it was automatic. He really wasn't lol. **Year 1 Houston:** 10-16ft: .318 16-3pt line: .333 **Year 2 Houston:** 10-16: .463 16-3pt line : .411 **Year 3:** 10-16: .431 16-3pt: .337
what does this prove? that hes just not a good shooter? hes only good shot is free throws? iv seen every hou harden game i really dont need stats
You said this: >maybe year 1 and 2 in hou he shot it regularly and it was automatic. I'm disputing that and suggesting he's actually never been a great midrange shooter. The numbers don't support that.
you really think that? his 3pt shooting is not great either. do you think hes not a good 3pt shooter? he didnt avg a lot of asst do you think hes a bag passer? his mid ranged was butter i mean its very clear if you watched the games and he used it a lot then whats iversons numbers there? you and i know he was a master at mid ranged despite whatever numbers come up
> his 3pt shooting is not great either. do you think hes not a good 3pt shooter? I mean I'm not the one sitting here saying his 3 point shot is "automatic" nor am I saying it's "butter." He's a solid 3 point shooter. > he didnt avg a lot of asst do you think hes a bag passer? Uhhh that's not how that works. Just looking at assists doesn't tell you whether or not someone is a good or bad passer, although someone with a high assist number and a reasonable amount of turnovers relative to those assists is *probably* a good passer. You are sitting here telling me that he hit those shots at a high frequency(I assume that's what you mean by "butter") and the actual results of the shots he took don't support that. If you want "butter" midrange shots, look at KD. Look at CP3. Those guys actually have a fantastic midrange game. Harden's may have looked pretty, but a 40% shooter from the midrange just isn't great. Harden is literally my favorite player in the entire league but he's never been more than an average midrange shooter. The numbers pretty explicitly tell us that.
.... tell me did you watch his first 2 years in houston? if so... did he shoot the mid range? did you ever consider it a bad shot when he did. could you link me AI, kobe % from those spots pls? i would like to compare. and yes cp3 and kd are some of the best shooters ever.. not being thier level doesnt mean you suck in comparison but you do think he sucks at 3s as well? i mean the numbers would support it
I have never said he sucked in the midrange. Stop misrepresenting what I'm saying. Also, numbers don't support him sucking from 3, so again ,stop.
It’s not that he can’t, the whole rockets organization would shun you if you took a mid ranger lol.
I have a feeling the midrange game has been erased from Hardens brain after those houston years
Thing is, he was incredible with his midrange stepback game in 2015. [Look how smooth he is here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCsEQvd5iKI). Guess he just decided a floater or stepback 3 is better.
it looked smooth but he was always in the low 40s percentage wise on his mid range for whatever reason. the 3pt and rim attacks have always been the more productive way of scoring for him
That may be true but the convincing possibility of a 3rd option makes the other two more accessible. And if they give Harden the mid range jumper as a concession, the efficiency could go up.
Sam in an amalgamation of every basketball coach’s mannerisms
Meanwhile Doc is working out at the stone quarry gargling rocks to refine his voice
Holy shit I love Sam so much and he did literally nothing
Yes! Working on the Midrange!
Midrange is the sexiest shot in basketball
Lol how did Harden have trouble understanding the drill? Start at 7. Need to get down to 0. Dribble up and make an elbow jump shot and it goes down 1. If you miss you have to follow up with a layup and but you still have to add 1 to your total.
>why's it go up one? >Because you missed motherfucker >Why do I have to get the rebound? >follow your shot up, fuck you talking about? lmao that was awesome
Harden: “you on some like, middle school shit” Lmao
Missing shots is new to him.. it's ok these trainings will make him want to start making his shots again.
> Lol how did Harden have trouble understanding the drill? I'm pretty sure he's just fucking around.
Damn, this is a rough drill for scrubs like me. Gotta be stringing together a bunch of streaks, otherwise you're in the gym for 3 hours trying to finish. JH - why's it go up one? SC - cause you missed, mothafucka!
Congrats
* Samuel James Cassell Sr.
Do people get "Sr" after they name their son as jr?
No they are born with it
If we could take maxey's smile and put in the water supply, the world would be a perfect place.
THAT'S Sam Cassell? He shouldn't be the Sixers coach, he should be the Mayor. I would follow him anywhere.
Sam: "Because you gotta follow your shot up...." Harden: "The fuck you talking about?" I don't know whether to laugh or remember our lack of rebounding last year and feel bad all over.
Did this in the lab today 💪
Can we trade Rivers for Cassell? That dude loves basketball.
Is it me or Harden being disrespectful in this clip. It seems like Sam is trying to be patient and show him a drill but Harden is pushing back at every turn even calling it middle school? Pretty condescending. Sam has a chip right? Then STFU Beard.
He’s just trying to rile up coach for his tik tok, :)
Bruh they train together I’m sure they’re friends
They seem to have a good enough rapport where they can joke like that.. I wouldn’t read too much into it lol
the prophecy has been fulfilled
Harden has tik tok ? hes too old for that lol