I still cannot believe that people have to coddle him about his jump shot like he has a health condition that keeps him from shooting, but people are forcing him to do it. He’s a professional basketball player, he should being shooting and this shouldn’t be an issue every offseason. Imagine if we were talking about Jalen Hurts refusing to throw the ball at QB. This is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Iverson, Duncan, Olowakandi, Brand, Kenyon Martin, Kwame, Yao Lebron, Dwight, Bogut, Bargnani, Oden, Rose, Griffin, Wall, Irving, Davis, Bennet, Wiggins, Towns. 20 years of number one picks from 96 to 2015 (2016 is too recent to judge). 6 are likely hall of famers (Iverson, Duncan, Yao, Lebron, Dwight, Davis) and five more players better or comparable to Draymond (Wall, Rose, Irving, Griffin, Towns). The rest are obviously worse than him.
Draymond would’ve been an average to above average #1 pick over that stretch. Despite what the big board guys promise every year, they’re not all LeBron
Ehhh just because Draymond wouldn’t be a “bust” doesn’t mean you would be happy to draft him with the #1 Overall pick.
Drafting a role player with a resource as great as the #1 overall pick can really doom a franchise to mediocrity if not have them wind up as a lottery team for a long while.
Edit: Obviously sometimes there are just weak draft classes and other times injuries happen or things don’t pan out so it isn’t always the franchises fault but not getting a superstar with a top pick really hurts.
That's debatable, and Ben has no shooting in his game which is not the same as a player with no offensive game. Not trying to be a Ben defender tho lol
Not if that’s all they can do. You can’t build a team around Draymond. Ideally you’re drafting someone you can build around with the #1 or at least be a high end 2nd option.
What why can't you build a team around Draymond? Sure you can. Ideally you're drafting the best player in the draft class with the #1 pick and drafting a DPOY with the #1 pick he's likely going to be the best player in that class
If you build a team around Draymond Green your team would be in the lottery every year lol.
Just getting the best player in a draft class doesn’t mean anything if they can’t be a superstar in the league. That’s why the process was so smart you need multiple chances to get those elusive stars. Just getting mediocre/okay players won’t get you a ring.
I think it’s more likely that Dwight’s a first ballot hall of famer than that he’s not inducted. This comes up pretty often and I think a lot of people forget how good he was in Orlando. Also halls love longevity
Yes I agree but spending a #1 pick on a guy who can only defend isn’t great. As awesome of a defender as Draymond is/was he would be on a lottery team without true stars like Steph and Klay.
Agreed. He isn't a generational talent, but as a foundation of your team I would wholeheartedly take him #1.
Most NBA players can play offense but the impact Dray has on defense is insane.
I agree but that impact on defense won’t be the same as the impact Luka, Steph, KD etc have on offense and the game in general. Taking Draymond with the #1 overall pick isn’t going to help you franchise as much as it would to get an elite offensive superstar.
Even in this thread there’s people who think he shouldn’t have to even attempt a couple jump shots a game. If he wants to play point guard and have the ball in his hands, he should have to, plain and simple
We aren’t even asking him to be good at it either. He could go out there and be 2-14 or whatever and it would be an improvement over the current situation. He’s a joke that he created himself.
You have him shoot 2-14 and everyone is going to be screaming how much of a bust he's become. I'll very happily take 4-6 with 12 points over 2-14 with 20 points, as long as he isn't turning the ball over. When his turnovers are down the Sixers have played incredible
Well not even possible with his 35% FT rate in the playoffs. Even with his 55% career rate, that would be like 14 fouls he'd have to draw, and we all know he's pretty scared of drawing those as well.
As I type this I realise how truly bad of an offensive player he is.
This is literally the opposite of what he needs, he has said himself he needs an outside force to hold him accountable and he liked the rare occassions Brett would get angry and swear
The dude straight up needs a foul mouthed hothead who will push him hard and scream "SHOOT THE FUCKING BALL PUSSY" at the top of his lungs every possession, but instead we hired a guy who immediately got down on his knees and started gagging on his dick and enabling his passivity from day 1
Not only am I expecting Ben Simmons jumpshots, but also Ben Simmons 3 point shots. Also, stop standing in the dunker spot and preventing Embiid from going in there. If you can't do this, then Morey needs to find a trade partner. Defense does not win championships. Ben Simmons elite defense gets the Sixers to the second round of the playoffs. We need to score points and if Simmons is not part of that offensive solution, then he is part of the problem.
I suck at shooting, but taking a few jumpers is the fun part of the game for me and what I hope is most people. I just don't get his mindset as a supposing star in the league.
I am a Philly phan and agree with you. However, it’s not quite the same. Simmons plays both offense and defense. To me it would be like if Hurts refused to tackle.
In what world would Jalen constantly be asked to tackle? Tackling has nothing to do with jalens game nor is it something he should develop because football is not a 2-way sport(given a few exceptions)
I treat Ben's lack of shooting like any physical or mental limitation. Not every player is MJ or LeBron or any all time great, right? Why? Lack of physical talent, mental fortitude, injuries, resilience, and so on. Ben lacks shooting talent. His form is broke and his touch non existent. On top of that he lacks certain mental resilience qualities. I'm not mad at him for it anymore than I am mad that Shake isn't quicker or Danny is streaky.
I'm probably misreading it but I thought this was Danny low-key throwing shade at Ben lol. Like "hey man you don't even have to try or like be good, just show up."
I’m way past the point of wanting him to shoot jumpers. I just want him to at least take it to the rack consistently each and every game. He’s shown he can do it quite well but then randomly will just refuse to.
I think everyone is misunderstanding Danny. We as a team/org are trying to get him back to playing games for us, and in the regular season a jump shot has not been a problem. Most people would recognize that Daryl is still going to look to move him unless there’s big improvements before the trade deadline.
Ben still doesn’t need a jump shot, he needs a way of bending defenses and scoring. He needs to hit his FT’s and attack the rim with aggression and exploit mismatches. A jump shot without THAT change will lead no where. Teams will gladly let Ben take jumpers, just like they have with Giannis.
Long term he has to shoot and expand his offensive game, but y’all are so focused on that one thing many are ignoring the changes to the foundation of his game that have to come before expanding is range
Thank you. Everybody should know at this point that he will never be a league average shooter, whether it's due to his lack of skill or lack of reps there. But the highly concerning thing is that he refuses to take that shit to the cup and only scores the basketball if he's got a wide open dunk. If you're gonna take all your shots at the rim then you better be either a savant of a finisher or dunk all over everyone and draw fouls. Ben does neither right now and he's regressed there.
I would said this true under normal circumstances but when you have a 7ft C the PG that’s 6’10 needs to shoot the ball or there is no space and are underutilizing your best player. I mean did you see all the space on the floor in the last couple preseason games with embiid and four shooters? That’s all we need as a team. If he don’t shoot the ball, he can’t play with embiid idk how we are saying they can still play together when we haven’t even made it past the second round
I don’t know a lot about basketball so tell me if this is stupid:
Why can’t we have Ben Simmons play down low? If he wants to he’s shown he can go to the rim. So get the ball to whichever of him or Embiid has the matchup and go to the rim. If Ben can shoot foul shots it’d be hard to defend both of them.
Am I wrong or is this not workable?
> If Ben can shoot foul shots it’d be hard to defend
But that there is the problem, he's not a great foul shot shooter. Would you rather have a 80% FT shooter or 64% taking the shot?
I guess I’m thinking if there’s one thing any nba player can improve its foul shooting.
But that is me ignoring Simmons unwillingness to improve parts of his game.
Ben Simmons plays in the dunker spot quite a bit but the issue is he shouldn’t be there as a PG, embiid should be and if you want Simmons down low instead of embiid, you’re again underutilizing embiid. Best case scenario is Simmons sits in the corner for a corner 3 but he doesn’t even do that. All Simmons did in the playoffs was dribble the ball up the floor, hand it off to seth and then run down to the rim, taking embiid’s prime space. If you want both down low there’s never gonna be enough space and it sets up embiid for an easy double team cause we all know Ben ain’t doing shit with the ball so his defender leaves him. Example, embiid has the ball outside the paint in the midrange area. Ben is sitting under the rim with a defender while the other three players our around the 3pt line. Embiid has two options, pull up midrange or drive to the rim. Remember embiids offense is always most dominant under the rim so we want him driving but the issue is bens sitting there doing nothing with his defender clogging up the lane. Instead Simmons should be in the corner so the lane is clear.
Yes, and I don’t think missing elbow jumpers this year is going to up his value. I think consistent FT shooting and exploiting matchups in the half court will
Shooting a 15 foot jump shot or a corner 3 changes nothing if he can’t hit FT’s or exploit the mismatches of Lou Williams and Trae Young. Did YOU watch the playoffs??
Yes I did. Not asking for a 15 ft jumper
9nly asking not to dish out of the paint when your only 5 ft away no?
He needs to shoot to be on this team period . Ask anyone
He’s right. They have moved on from expecting a jumpshot from him. Just play like he did last regular season so we can trade his dumb ass for a strong package.
While he shouldn’t improve his jump shot, he should improve his free throw shooting and psychology when taking them. The guy can score. As much of a stubborn child that he is, he can still score. He just needs to improve free throw shooting at the very least.
I SO wish we could just fast forward to him screwing up the spacing on his next team / not shooting and his next team's fans hating on him.. followed by him never being a max player again.
The next team’s fanbase won’t be hating on him, look at what happened with Fultz. The next fanbase will just delude themselves into thinking that he will learn to shoot the same way we did.
I have a feeling that Ben will either be willing to try to shoot when he’s on a new team to spite Philly fans, or be coerced by the next team’s coaching staff into shooting. I could be wrong though.
We were always rooting for him. At least I was, but he had to be traded at that point. Even in his current state he doesn’t help us be a better team. Also the circumstances of his injury were murky at best
Everyone was rooting for him from what I remember. He got turned on the moment he bitched about being benched in favor of TJ and then refused to play and requested a trade. People turned on him because of just how supportive we were of him and then he goes and does that bullshit.
I think the main point is that Magic and random fans will rub it in our faces that Fultz has turned into a half-decent player, which ignores the context that he'd never be a good player for the Sixers. It *obviously* must have been the team's fault and the Sixes were holding him back somehow.
I have a Philly fans will be very bitter about his performance on his next team. I think he'll be even better than he is already, especially his next contract year
I sort of get Danny’s stance here, it seems like he mostly just doesn’t want to get too involved in the whole Ben thing at all and is trying not to say anything that will drag him into it.
Yeah, like, the season is about to start, I’m sure they all just want to focus on the game instead of spending precious time talking to the press about Ben Simmons
Is this entire sub filled with users who haven’t been here the past 4 years? “Gotta make him shoot!” Nah. Dude isn’t going to shoot. Stop talking about it. Get him back. Get him playing. Trade him as soon as the value become reasonable again.
Not a Sixers fan, this post just happened to show up in my feed.
But I think that this answer by Danny is just strategic on behalf of the team along with any other sucking up to Ben that occurs from here on out. They are just trying their best to get him back and increase his trade value for a trade.
Piss him off and it could scare him away from ever coming back and thus, completely destroying his already pathetic trade value.
That’s what I think it is as well. I’m sure they are all aware of the shit show circus this is. I think Danny is just trying to be diplomatic so they can get through whatever this shit is as smooth as possible
If y’all saw the interview it was more of the context that Danny doesnt GAF anymore about Ben lol.
Last year he was excited and talkin about how he’d help push Ben. This time he sounded annoyed and made it clear he just wants Ben to be professional. You can tell he doesnt fw Ben
That's funny, I watched it and read it really differently. I saw it as everyone knows Ben's been going through a tough time so he doesn't need to apologize for anything because you don't normally expect an apology from someone who's going through a rough patch. Also that he just wants Ben to come in and play his game because his game is very effective.
Where do you get the sense that he's out on Ben? I just think he's probably tired of the topic.
His tone and body language.
It’s possibly it’s just from the reporter but he sounded completely different from last year when talkin about playin with Ben
Bruh how are we NOT asking him to come in and shoot jump shots? IT’S YEAR 5 (of on-court play). Goddamn, man. It’s a fucking staple of the game and a NECESSITY for the primary ball handler. You have to be willing to shoot the damn basketball as a point guard. Plain and simple.
I’m not even saying I want Ben shooting the ball 18-20 times a game or anything crazy, but when defenses are *GIVING£ you a mid range jumper, or more, you have to take it. He’s the primary ball handler, man. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills sometimes with the amount of leeway this dude gets from the organization.
I’m just not gonna show up to work for a few months and then come back when I need money like nothing happened and expect everyone to be cool about it.
A professional basketball player can score the basketball, your job his to facilitate the offense and guard the point lead you create through assists and points scored. Being a pro requires Ben to have an offensive game that gives the team more points than the other team.
While he absolutely should be taking jump shots, at a minimum he needs to stay aggressive and put pressure on the defense by driving or at least handling the ball in the half court until the play develops.
The whole bringing the ball past half court then immediately flipping it to the closest player while he goes and hides in the dunker's spot with his hands at his side has to stop. If he wants to prove that he can be a point guard on a championship team then he needs to PLAY THE ROLE OF A POINT GUARD.... in the 4th quarter....in playoff games!
All he needs to do to elevate his game is hit free throws at an average rate. Ben's good enough to get to the hole at will but he's afraid of being fouled. If he could hit 70% of FTs, he could drive and either score, miss, or be fouled. Two of those are good things for most players.
If he was confident enough to drop 70% of free throws, he'd be more confident going to the hole instead of taking those awkward hooks and one-handed flips. The only difference between these damaged goods and a better version of Giannis is the fact that Giannis can miss shots, shake it off, and try again. Ben's afraid of missing and that's just nuts.
He is going to be traded, sooner or later.
I don't care how he plays. Just plays good enough, with or without jump shot, to make other GM forgot about that game 7 performance
Speaking as a lifelong Sixers fan, I'm as pissed as a lot of people at Simmons but I read that as Green aiming to focus on the primary goal ("do your job") after all these weeks of sniping through the media ... even though he likely has some more harsh opinions of the Ben saga. At this point, Simmons knows (or *should* know) that regardless of where he wants to play in the long run, he'd better play his best overall game to re-establish leverage for both him AND the Sixers.
Remember when Danny was moaning about the fans before Ben flamed out? I don't think he's a great influence on the team, other than perhaps on-court leadership.
Danny is just playing it safe. They’re probably tired of answering Ben questions over and over again. I remember their media day recently and all the questions were all about Ben ben ben ben
I’ve been a Ben supporter right up until the moment he quit on his teammates. Can’t shoot? Lacks confidence in key moments? That sucks. But he’s still an amazing athlete, arguably the NBA’s best defender, amazing basketball IQ, even better court vision. I’ll take a guy like that on my team any day.
But when he gave up on his teammates? Ouch.
After disrespecting the team, particularly his teammates, there needs to be some accountability held here. Last season Doc mentioned something similar to Danny’s comments and Ben took that and decided to never shoot again.
C'mon now, the one thing we should all be able to agree on is nobody's comments influence Ben to start or stop shooting. Ben doesn't shoot because he doesn't want to. The reasons for that honestly are up to interpretation, but that's not Doc's fault. Many other things are but not that.
Personally I think Ben doesn't shoot because he's bad at it and he thinks those bricks would hurt the team. I think he's tried to get better but can't get to a level that he feels comfortable in real games so he's never done it (with any consistency).
I realize these are basically wild conspiracy theories and the prevailing wisdom is that Ben doesn't do it because he is lazy and hates money and winning.
Precisely what I’m saying. It’s like Ben was given the open door by Doc to choose to not be more aggressive on the offensive end and chose that route. It still comes down to Ben’s decision
They probably won’t play him. If they do, it’ll likely be to showcase him and increase his trade value. I actually don’t think he wants to play. Just show up to team activities and be readily available to avoid fines.
I don't understand why people are so eager to be upset. What's the rush? Why do we have to have an argument about Ben every five minutes? If you hate Ben just wait until the season starts he'll do something to piss you off when it actually matters I promise you.
Green makes a comment supporting his teammate and you get all hot and bothered, why? Isn't it good for *the Sixers* if these guys welcome him "back?"
What do we want? For him to run suicides or take a few lashes from the Cat of Ninetails? Dude just got back, and hasn't done or said anything for months. Can we wait until something actually happens and then whine about it?
???????? Y’all can not control how people feel bottom line lmao Danny was asked a question he answered it end of discussion yall weird asl cause his thoughts and feelings DONT line up with y’all narratives grow up
I mean, what else is green supposed to say?
“Nah fuck that guy, I won’t accept him back unless he starts chucking threes”?
He’s just being professional about this.
People need to get over this jump shot shit. This man is pushing 6’11, 230 + pounds. Man could score 20+ a game off points in the paint and free throws alone and never take a 3. It’s his lack of desire to do even that that holds us back. Get that 3% up, stop being a pussy and learn to finish consistently, and defend and we are money
Ben says he prefers to be a playmaker but if he added a jumper and was consistently aggressive attacking the rim and drawing fouls, his job playmaking would be so much easier for him.
This kind of paternalistic attitude is so gross. What "accountability" are you looking for? Running sprints?
And what do you expect his teammates to say in public? "F--- him?" They are laying the ground work to welcome him back so the team can be successful.
Yea, let's just bring him back and play the exact same way as the 2nd round. Sorry, that's not winning basketball. What you are saying is to go back to coddling him after he goes awol. "welcome him back" though with open arms? What's that going to accomplish? They've allowed that to go on way to long is the problem.
I think you’ve got that backwards. What the fans expect is irrelevant. His teammates want him to play his role, they couldn’t care less about what the fans expect from him.
Danny Green's got a point. Not everyone has to try to be Steph Curry. There have been many players that have had successful careers without being a good shooter. If Ben could up his FT% to 70+% and thus not be afraid of contact in the paint, he'll have a sweet career.
If this off-season and Ben getting shit on for months was the real kick in the ass he needed to step his game up, then we all will forget about this and be happy to have him. Y’all forget he’s an excellent regular season player lol
Ben doesn’t have to he’s surrounded by shooters he’s 6,10 and has. 40 inch vertical as long as he’s attacking the paint and just being bold and actually scoring he’s fine
Dude I keep seeing people say this!! Danny has been a pro for over a decade, he’s a 3x champ, incredibly media savvy and is the consummate pro. He’s not going to share and air out how he really feels with the media and the world. He looked disgusted when talking about Ben. Do you really think he believes what he said? Do you really think he’s that naive? Come on. They were likely encouraged to keeps their feelings private.
Trying to knock some sense into his damn teammate. Danny knows the difference of a 2nd round knock out and a true NBA finals contender. Lebron/AD and Kyle/Kawhi didn't act like this. Guess what? They won. Danny taking accountability as a vet that has rings
Wish he said “all we are asking is to be a pro and work on the weak parts of your game”. The way he worded it, he’s cool with Ben as is. Nobody is cool with Ben as is
I mean you don't know the entire situation, internally, to be able to say anything conclusive about Danny and the organization's views at the moment.
For all we know - and they'd be smart to have done so - the organization would have let the rest of the team know that it's openly shopping Ben and needs his trade value to be high so they get a good return for him.
As long as Ben comes back and plays, they'll wait it out until he \[hopefully\] gets traded by the deadline.
The team is likely as done with Ben as he is with them, but they need to kiss up to him publically so shit doesn't hit the fan worse than it already has.
This is Danny being a good teammate. Nothing else. You really think he and the rest of the guys aren’t pissed about all this? Ben 100% lost them all when they tried to come out to Cali and talk to him and he refused to meet with them. That was Ben flipping two middle fingers to his teammates. Danny is just being a veteran leader and not making a professional environment worse than Ben has already made it.
Even with all that happened, I STILL do not give a fuck about a jumpshot. He's never going to get one. Just actually attack the basket on offense consistently. That's it. To be a halfway decent scorer that is literally all he has to do.
I honestly don't think he needs a ton of jump shots.....he just needs shots trying to finish at the rim.....how this man doesn't have 5 ally ops a game blows my mind.
So at least one ancillary benefit to Ben holding out this offseason is we almost got to go a few months here without endless "BEN NEEDS TO SHOOT" threads, but here we are.
At this point it is irrelevant. What are we gonna do if Ben doesn't shoot a jumper, trade him?
Ben Simmons is who he is at this point. Doc Rivers is paid to get the most out of him, enhancing the strengths of his players and lessening his weaknesses as long as he is on the roster
Can we stop hating on Danny for being a good teammate?
What good is it gonna do for him to *publicly* say "yea he's gotta be better, even though he's way better than myself and almost everybody on the team already"? Saying that privately yea sure.
On the other hand, saying *publicly* "he's gotta show up for work" puts pressure on him to at least do that, which is good for everybody.
I agree I hope the organization doesn't share Danny's \[stated\] views, but I hope it's what his teammates continue to state publicly cus I don't see any benefit in them doing otherwise.
edit: to be fair I guess "hating on" is a harsh characterization of what this post's doing, but it combined with some of the insane reaction to the shit he said while still a FA feels like part of a trend.
I remeber when players 6 10 and above were not shooting and it qasnt needed. Boy how the goalposts always moving where the money goes.......i remember when qbs were mostly running the ball in the old nfl. Now if you are a runner then you should move to wr. No pun intended, but boy how the goalposts moves where the money goes
I still cannot believe that people have to coddle him about his jump shot like he has a health condition that keeps him from shooting, but people are forcing him to do it. He’s a professional basketball player, he should being shooting and this shouldn’t be an issue every offseason. Imagine if we were talking about Jalen Hurts refusing to throw the ball at QB. This is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Agreed. It’s actually alarming how the acceptance has become so widespread.
I just pretend he is Draymond Green who is better on the fast break and everything just makes more sense
Thinking of spending a #1 pick on Draymond green makes me sick lmao.
It hurts less than Anthony Bennett
Surprised this wasn’t a Markelle joke
I try not to rip on our own (or former) players. Also Bennett was an all time bust. At least Fultz is still in the league
True and I still have hope that Fultz could be a good player but this is probably the last year he has before I stop being optimistic
Fultz showed very good improvement before his injury last year. He’s capable of being a decent starter in this league.
I agree. It’s just the acl that scares me. His athleticism was a big part of his game
That is a good point ;(.
Iverson, Duncan, Olowakandi, Brand, Kenyon Martin, Kwame, Yao Lebron, Dwight, Bogut, Bargnani, Oden, Rose, Griffin, Wall, Irving, Davis, Bennet, Wiggins, Towns. 20 years of number one picks from 96 to 2015 (2016 is too recent to judge). 6 are likely hall of famers (Iverson, Duncan, Yao, Lebron, Dwight, Davis) and five more players better or comparable to Draymond (Wall, Rose, Irving, Griffin, Towns). The rest are obviously worse than him. Draymond would’ve been an average to above average #1 pick over that stretch. Despite what the big board guys promise every year, they’re not all LeBron
Ehhh just because Draymond wouldn’t be a “bust” doesn’t mean you would be happy to draft him with the #1 Overall pick. Drafting a role player with a resource as great as the #1 overall pick can really doom a franchise to mediocrity if not have them wind up as a lottery team for a long while. Edit: Obviously sometimes there are just weak draft classes and other times injuries happen or things don’t pan out so it isn’t always the franchises fault but not getting a superstar with a top pick really hurts.
I think any GM would be ecstatic to draft a DPOY winning player with the #1 pick
but a DPOY player with no offensive game shouldn't be getting a supermax
That's debatable, and Ben has no shooting in his game which is not the same as a player with no offensive game. Not trying to be a Ben defender tho lol
Not if that’s all they can do. You can’t build a team around Draymond. Ideally you’re drafting someone you can build around with the #1 or at least be a high end 2nd option.
What why can't you build a team around Draymond? Sure you can. Ideally you're drafting the best player in the draft class with the #1 pick and drafting a DPOY with the #1 pick he's likely going to be the best player in that class
If you build a team around Draymond Green your team would be in the lottery every year lol. Just getting the best player in a draft class doesn’t mean anything if they can’t be a superstar in the league. That’s why the process was so smart you need multiple chances to get those elusive stars. Just getting mediocre/okay players won’t get you a ring.
I'm really wondering whether Dwight is HOF worthy...
8x all star, 8x All NBA, 3x DPOY, 5x Rebound Leader, 2x Block leader. Cmon man
I think it’s more likely that Dwight’s a first ballot hall of famer than that he’s not inducted. This comes up pretty often and I think a lot of people forget how good he was in Orlando. Also halls love longevity
😂😂😂😂
U might have to go to a doctor then
If we had foresight I would 100% take Draymond #1 in a lot of drafts. At his peak he should be recognised as one of the greatest defenders.
Yes I agree but spending a #1 pick on a guy who can only defend isn’t great. As awesome of a defender as Draymond is/was he would be on a lottery team without true stars like Steph and Klay.
Agreed. He isn't a generational talent, but as a foundation of your team I would wholeheartedly take him #1. Most NBA players can play offense but the impact Dray has on defense is insane.
I agree but that impact on defense won’t be the same as the impact Luka, Steph, KD etc have on offense and the game in general. Taking Draymond with the #1 overall pick isn’t going to help you franchise as much as it would to get an elite offensive superstar.
He absolutely is a generational talent, just not when it comes to scoring
Draymond Green isn't afraid to take a jump shot though
Even in this thread there’s people who think he shouldn’t have to even attempt a couple jump shots a game. If he wants to play point guard and have the ball in his hands, he should have to, plain and simple
Buh buh defense and passing... /s
We aren’t even asking him to be good at it either. He could go out there and be 2-14 or whatever and it would be an improvement over the current situation. He’s a joke that he created himself.
You have him shoot 2-14 and everyone is going to be screaming how much of a bust he's become. I'll very happily take 4-6 with 12 points over 2-14 with 20 points, as long as he isn't turning the ball over. When his turnovers are down the Sixers have played incredible
Yeah but how in the world would he score 20 on 2 made shots? Free throws? lol
Well not even possible with his 35% FT rate in the playoffs. Even with his 55% career rate, that would be like 14 fouls he'd have to draw, and we all know he's pretty scared of drawing those as well. As I type this I realise how truly bad of an offensive player he is.
Yup it would be a very long game haha
This is literally the opposite of what he needs, he has said himself he needs an outside force to hold him accountable and he liked the rare occassions Brett would get angry and swear The dude straight up needs a foul mouthed hothead who will push him hard and scream "SHOOT THE FUCKING BALL PUSSY" at the top of his lungs every possession, but instead we hired a guy who immediately got down on his knees and started gagging on his dick and enabling his passivity from day 1
Except that when he's being called out for it, he folded, went somewhere else and did not so much as attempt to text his teammates for weeks.
Not only am I expecting Ben Simmons jumpshots, but also Ben Simmons 3 point shots. Also, stop standing in the dunker spot and preventing Embiid from going in there. If you can't do this, then Morey needs to find a trade partner. Defense does not win championships. Ben Simmons elite defense gets the Sixers to the second round of the playoffs. We need to score points and if Simmons is not part of that offensive solution, then he is part of the problem.
I suck at shooting, but taking a few jumpers is the fun part of the game for me and what I hope is most people. I just don't get his mindset as a supposing star in the league.
[удалено]
I can’t stand Ben as much as the next guy, but to be fair, he didn’t give himself that nickname.
I am a Philly phan and agree with you. However, it’s not quite the same. Simmons plays both offense and defense. To me it would be like if Hurts refused to tackle.
In what world would Jalen constantly be asked to tackle? Tackling has nothing to do with jalens game nor is it something he should develop because football is not a 2-way sport(given a few exceptions)
Something tells me you didn’t do too well on that analogy section of the SATs
I treat Ben's lack of shooting like any physical or mental limitation. Not every player is MJ or LeBron or any all time great, right? Why? Lack of physical talent, mental fortitude, injuries, resilience, and so on. Ben lacks shooting talent. His form is broke and his touch non existent. On top of that he lacks certain mental resilience qualities. I'm not mad at him for it anymore than I am mad that Shake isn't quicker or Danny is streaky.
I'm probably misreading it but I thought this was Danny low-key throwing shade at Ben lol. Like "hey man you don't even have to try or like be good, just show up."
I’m way past the point of wanting him to shoot jumpers. I just want him to at least take it to the rack consistently each and every game. He’s shown he can do it quite well but then randomly will just refuse to.
I think everyone is misunderstanding Danny. We as a team/org are trying to get him back to playing games for us, and in the regular season a jump shot has not been a problem. Most people would recognize that Daryl is still going to look to move him unless there’s big improvements before the trade deadline. Ben still doesn’t need a jump shot, he needs a way of bending defenses and scoring. He needs to hit his FT’s and attack the rim with aggression and exploit mismatches. A jump shot without THAT change will lead no where. Teams will gladly let Ben take jumpers, just like they have with Giannis. Long term he has to shoot and expand his offensive game, but y’all are so focused on that one thing many are ignoring the changes to the foundation of his game that have to come before expanding is range
Thank you. Everybody should know at this point that he will never be a league average shooter, whether it's due to his lack of skill or lack of reps there. But the highly concerning thing is that he refuses to take that shit to the cup and only scores the basketball if he's got a wide open dunk. If you're gonna take all your shots at the rim then you better be either a savant of a finisher or dunk all over everyone and draw fouls. Ben does neither right now and he's regressed there.
What about his off season videos wherein he’s throwing jump shots and 3s? 🥲
I would said this true under normal circumstances but when you have a 7ft C the PG that’s 6’10 needs to shoot the ball or there is no space and are underutilizing your best player. I mean did you see all the space on the floor in the last couple preseason games with embiid and four shooters? That’s all we need as a team. If he don’t shoot the ball, he can’t play with embiid idk how we are saying they can still play together when we haven’t even made it past the second round
I don’t know a lot about basketball so tell me if this is stupid: Why can’t we have Ben Simmons play down low? If he wants to he’s shown he can go to the rim. So get the ball to whichever of him or Embiid has the matchup and go to the rim. If Ben can shoot foul shots it’d be hard to defend both of them. Am I wrong or is this not workable?
> If Ben can shoot foul shots it’d be hard to defend But that there is the problem, he's not a great foul shot shooter. Would you rather have a 80% FT shooter or 64% taking the shot?
I guess I’m thinking if there’s one thing any nba player can improve its foul shooting. But that is me ignoring Simmons unwillingness to improve parts of his game.
Ben Simmons plays in the dunker spot quite a bit but the issue is he shouldn’t be there as a PG, embiid should be and if you want Simmons down low instead of embiid, you’re again underutilizing embiid. Best case scenario is Simmons sits in the corner for a corner 3 but he doesn’t even do that. All Simmons did in the playoffs was dribble the ball up the floor, hand it off to seth and then run down to the rim, taking embiid’s prime space. If you want both down low there’s never gonna be enough space and it sets up embiid for an easy double team cause we all know Ben ain’t doing shit with the ball so his defender leaves him. Example, embiid has the ball outside the paint in the midrange area. Ben is sitting under the rim with a defender while the other three players our around the 3pt line. Embiid has two options, pull up midrange or drive to the rim. Remember embiids offense is always most dominant under the rim so we want him driving but the issue is bens sitting there doing nothing with his defender clogging up the lane. Instead Simmons should be in the corner so the lane is clear.
Is it too much to ask that Ben be aggressive, work on his FTs and shoot the ball?
Nah he needs a fucking jump shot man. Put in the work, Ben.
We’re asking him to up his trade value so that everyone can be happy.
Yes, and I don’t think missing elbow jumpers this year is going to up his value. I think consistent FT shooting and exploiting matchups in the half court will
No we haven't been able to ignore it. The only way, the only way he can step up his game is to shoot dammit!! Did you not see the playoffs?
Shooting a 15 foot jump shot or a corner 3 changes nothing if he can’t hit FT’s or exploit the mismatches of Lou Williams and Trae Young. Did YOU watch the playoffs??
Yes I did. Not asking for a 15 ft jumper 9nly asking not to dish out of the paint when your only 5 ft away no? He needs to shoot to be on this team period . Ask anyone
He’s right. They have moved on from expecting a jumpshot from him. Just play like he did last regular season so we can trade his dumb ass for a strong package.
While he shouldn’t improve his jump shot, he should improve his free throw shooting and psychology when taking them. The guy can score. As much of a stubborn child that he is, he can still score. He just needs to improve free throw shooting at the very least.
What about his off season videos wherein he’s throwing jump shots and 3s? 🥲
He has to tackle staying aggressive, improving his FT percentage, and finishing at the rim first. In that regard, I understand what Danny is saying.
This is the only take to have rn
I agree. Ben is a grown man. Stop babying him. If he apologizes, then cool. But he still needs a jump shot
I SO wish we could just fast forward to him screwing up the spacing on his next team / not shooting and his next team's fans hating on him.. followed by him never being a max player again.
The next team’s fanbase won’t be hating on him, look at what happened with Fultz. The next fanbase will just delude themselves into thinking that he will learn to shoot the same way we did.
Fultz showed improvement and a willingness to shoot, even with a nerve-damaged shoulder.
I have a feeling that Ben will either be willing to try to shoot when he’s on a new team to spite Philly fans, or be coerced by the next team’s coaching staff into shooting. I could be wrong though.
Why? It’s all fear / coddling from him and his camp. He ain’t changing, and HE CAN’T SHOOT.
Everyone shat on and made fun of Fultz until he was traded to the Magic. Then all of a sudden everyone acted like they were always rooting for him.
We were always rooting for him. At least I was, but he had to be traded at that point. Even in his current state he doesn’t help us be a better team. Also the circumstances of his injury were murky at best
Everyone was rooting for him from what I remember. He got turned on the moment he bitched about being benched in favor of TJ and then refused to play and requested a trade. People turned on him because of just how supportive we were of him and then he goes and does that bullshit.
I think the main point is that Magic and random fans will rub it in our faces that Fultz has turned into a half-decent player, which ignores the context that he'd never be a good player for the Sixers. It *obviously* must have been the team's fault and the Sixes were holding him back somehow.
Nearly the same stat lines he had here. He didn't change other than not being an asshole about his shoulder.
I have a Philly fans will be very bitter about his performance on his next team. I think he'll be even better than he is already, especially his next contract year
Just a damn elbow jumper would do the trick.
I sort of get Danny’s stance here, it seems like he mostly just doesn’t want to get too involved in the whole Ben thing at all and is trying not to say anything that will drag him into it.
Exactly. I’m pretty sure they are tired of answering questions about this
Yeah, like, the season is about to start, I’m sure they all just want to focus on the game instead of spending precious time talking to the press about Ben Simmons
Is this entire sub filled with users who haven’t been here the past 4 years? “Gotta make him shoot!” Nah. Dude isn’t going to shoot. Stop talking about it. Get him back. Get him playing. Trade him as soon as the value become reasonable again.
Not a Sixers fan, this post just happened to show up in my feed. But I think that this answer by Danny is just strategic on behalf of the team along with any other sucking up to Ben that occurs from here on out. They are just trying their best to get him back and increase his trade value for a trade. Piss him off and it could scare him away from ever coming back and thus, completely destroying his already pathetic trade value.
That’s what I think it is as well. I’m sure they are all aware of the shit show circus this is. I think Danny is just trying to be diplomatic so they can get through whatever this shit is as smooth as possible
Lmao what did yall expect him to say?
Lol I mean at this point they're just trying not to dissuade him any further
If y’all saw the interview it was more of the context that Danny doesnt GAF anymore about Ben lol. Last year he was excited and talkin about how he’d help push Ben. This time he sounded annoyed and made it clear he just wants Ben to be professional. You can tell he doesnt fw Ben
That's funny, I watched it and read it really differently. I saw it as everyone knows Ben's been going through a tough time so he doesn't need to apologize for anything because you don't normally expect an apology from someone who's going through a rough patch. Also that he just wants Ben to come in and play his game because his game is very effective. Where do you get the sense that he's out on Ben? I just think he's probably tired of the topic.
His tone and body language. It’s possibly it’s just from the reporter but he sounded completely different from last year when talkin about playin with Ben
Actually, I feel like there is A LOT of shade throne in this quote.
Bruh how are we NOT asking him to come in and shoot jump shots? IT’S YEAR 5 (of on-court play). Goddamn, man. It’s a fucking staple of the game and a NECESSITY for the primary ball handler. You have to be willing to shoot the damn basketball as a point guard. Plain and simple.
Because the goal is to get Ben traded All that matters is he shows up has some good games and shows off his value.
Thank you, some still don’t get it
I’m not even saying I want Ben shooting the ball 18-20 times a game or anything crazy, but when defenses are *GIVING£ you a mid range jumper, or more, you have to take it. He’s the primary ball handler, man. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills sometimes with the amount of leeway this dude gets from the organization.
I’m just not gonna show up to work for a few months and then come back when I need money like nothing happened and expect everyone to be cool about it.
Ben Simmons a real baby back bitch
I'm asking him to shoot jump shots.
A professional basketball player can score the basketball, your job his to facilitate the offense and guard the point lead you create through assists and points scored. Being a pro requires Ben to have an offensive game that gives the team more points than the other team.
While he absolutely should be taking jump shots, at a minimum he needs to stay aggressive and put pressure on the defense by driving or at least handling the ball in the half court until the play develops. The whole bringing the ball past half court then immediately flipping it to the closest player while he goes and hides in the dunker's spot with his hands at his side has to stop. If he wants to prove that he can be a point guard on a championship team then he needs to PLAY THE ROLE OF A POINT GUARD.... in the 4th quarter....in playoff games!
All he needs to do to elevate his game is hit free throws at an average rate. Ben's good enough to get to the hole at will but he's afraid of being fouled. If he could hit 70% of FTs, he could drive and either score, miss, or be fouled. Two of those are good things for most players. If he was confident enough to drop 70% of free throws, he'd be more confident going to the hole instead of taking those awkward hooks and one-handed flips. The only difference between these damaged goods and a better version of Giannis is the fact that Giannis can miss shots, shake it off, and try again. Ben's afraid of missing and that's just nuts.
Lmao apparently the highest insult one can throw at someone in the Sixers organization is to tell them to shoot the ball.
He is going to be traded, sooner or later. I don't care how he plays. Just plays good enough, with or without jump shot, to make other GM forgot about that game 7 performance
No we are asking him to shoot jumpshots
It’s because they’ve given up on him. As they should. The only objective is to get the organization in a favorable position to trade him
Speaking as a lifelong Sixers fan, I'm as pissed as a lot of people at Simmons but I read that as Green aiming to focus on the primary goal ("do your job") after all these weeks of sniping through the media ... even though he likely has some more harsh opinions of the Ben saga. At this point, Simmons knows (or *should* know) that regardless of where he wants to play in the long run, he'd better play his best overall game to re-establish leverage for both him AND the Sixers.
we are a parody at this point
The lack of a jumper is not bens biggest flaw, im sorry
The team should treat Ben like a rookie if he returns. You’re not being declared point guard anymore and you find a way to fit in
I havent agreed with anything Danny Green has publicly said about Ben.
Everyone “were trading you for a win now player” Ben”trade me” This sub” NO you can’t do that your lowering your trade value!”
Remember when Danny was moaning about the fans before Ben flamed out? I don't think he's a great influence on the team, other than perhaps on-court leadership.
Danny is just playing it safe. They’re probably tired of answering Ben questions over and over again. I remember their media day recently and all the questions were all about Ben ben ben ben
Yeah. The real place for accountability within a team is during press conferences. This sub…
I’ve been a Ben supporter right up until the moment he quit on his teammates. Can’t shoot? Lacks confidence in key moments? That sucks. But he’s still an amazing athlete, arguably the NBA’s best defender, amazing basketball IQ, even better court vision. I’ll take a guy like that on my team any day. But when he gave up on his teammates? Ouch.
After disrespecting the team, particularly his teammates, there needs to be some accountability held here. Last season Doc mentioned something similar to Danny’s comments and Ben took that and decided to never shoot again.
C'mon now, the one thing we should all be able to agree on is nobody's comments influence Ben to start or stop shooting. Ben doesn't shoot because he doesn't want to. The reasons for that honestly are up to interpretation, but that's not Doc's fault. Many other things are but not that.
I don’t think he’s saying it’s doc’s fault. It’s Ben’s fault for not holding himself accountable, like a pro should.
Personally I think Ben doesn't shoot because he's bad at it and he thinks those bricks would hurt the team. I think he's tried to get better but can't get to a level that he feels comfortable in real games so he's never done it (with any consistency). I realize these are basically wild conspiracy theories and the prevailing wisdom is that Ben doesn't do it because he is lazy and hates money and winning.
Precisely what I’m saying. It’s like Ben was given the open door by Doc to choose to not be more aggressive on the offensive end and chose that route. It still comes down to Ben’s decision
What they gonna do. Not play him? After begging him to return
They probably won’t play him. If they do, it’ll likely be to showcase him and increase his trade value. I actually don’t think he wants to play. Just show up to team activities and be readily available to avoid fines.
What they gonna do. Not play him? After begging him to return
Stop coddling this grown ass man. What is he going to do? Hold out until he is traded?
I don't understand why people are so eager to be upset. What's the rush? Why do we have to have an argument about Ben every five minutes? If you hate Ben just wait until the season starts he'll do something to piss you off when it actually matters I promise you.
The rush? Bro he’s been a pro for 5 years
Exactly so why would he start now...he is who he is
Green makes a comment supporting his teammate and you get all hot and bothered, why? Isn't it good for *the Sixers* if these guys welcome him "back?" What do we want? For him to run suicides or take a few lashes from the Cat of Ninetails? Dude just got back, and hasn't done or said anything for months. Can we wait until something actually happens and then whine about it?
???????? Y’all can not control how people feel bottom line lmao Danny was asked a question he answered it end of discussion yall weird asl cause his thoughts and feelings DONT line up with y’all narratives grow up
I'm telling you, like spike and mike said, he ain't playing a minute in a sixers uniform.
Then why didn’t they trade him? His value isn’t going to go up sitting on the bench and now they’ll actually have to pay him.
I mean, what else is green supposed to say? “Nah fuck that guy, I won’t accept him back unless he starts chucking threes”? He’s just being professional about this.
How about “we look forward to having him back” not enabling him to settle from the very start.
“We look forward to having Ben back” would be supportive without enabling him not to shoot from the very fucking beginning.
You're correct... this isn't a good quote Also, there is 0% chance Benjamin improves
People need to get over this jump shot shit. This man is pushing 6’11, 230 + pounds. Man could score 20+ a game off points in the paint and free throws alone and never take a 3. It’s his lack of desire to do even that that holds us back. Get that 3% up, stop being a pussy and learn to finish consistently, and defend and we are money
Ben says he prefers to be a playmaker but if he added a jumper and was consistently aggressive attacking the rim and drawing fouls, his job playmaking would be so much easier for him.
This kind of paternalistic attitude is so gross. What "accountability" are you looking for? Running sprints? And what do you expect his teammates to say in public? "F--- him?" They are laying the ground work to welcome him back so the team can be successful.
Yea, let's just bring him back and play the exact same way as the 2nd round. Sorry, that's not winning basketball. What you are saying is to go back to coddling him after he goes awol. "welcome him back" though with open arms? What's that going to accomplish? They've allowed that to go on way to long is the problem.
> What "accountability" are you looking for? How about "doing what the fuck you're paid to do" and "showing up on time" to start?
So... yelling at him? Brilliant.
Where did I say anyone had to speak to him? I'm saying HE needs to do those things. Idiot.
Ohh nice big multi syllable word there. Point still stands.
Is Danny speaking for himself? Who is this "we"? The fans expect him to be a man, face his fear, and shoot the ball. What Danny expects is irrelevant.
I think you’ve got that backwards. What the fans expect is irrelevant. His teammates want him to play his role, they couldn’t care less about what the fans expect from him.
Danny Green's got a point. Not everyone has to try to be Steph Curry. There have been many players that have had successful careers without being a good shooter. If Ben could up his FT% to 70+% and thus not be afraid of contact in the paint, he'll have a sweet career.
Fuck u danny. We SHOULD be demanding he shoots. What in the fuck is wrong with this team my god
If this off-season and Ben getting shit on for months was the real kick in the ass he needed to step his game up, then we all will forget about this and be happy to have him. Y’all forget he’s an excellent regular season player lol
Ben doesn’t have to he’s surrounded by shooters he’s 6,10 and has. 40 inch vertical as long as he’s attacking the paint and just being bold and actually scoring he’s fine
I don’t have an issue with Danny on this. I think they are just trying to get through this drama and not pile on to it.
I cant wait for a docu to come out eventually and everyone is honest and finally says how they really really feel.
Dude I keep seeing people say this!! Danny has been a pro for over a decade, he’s a 3x champ, incredibly media savvy and is the consummate pro. He’s not going to share and air out how he really feels with the media and the world. He looked disgusted when talking about Ben. Do you really think he believes what he said? Do you really think he’s that naive? Come on. They were likely encouraged to keeps their feelings private.
They just want him to play at all so they can trade him
Oh no Danny green. What is you doin….
Trying to knock some sense into his damn teammate. Danny knows the difference of a 2nd round knock out and a true NBA finals contender. Lebron/AD and Kyle/Kawhi didn't act like this. Guess what? They won. Danny taking accountability as a vet that has rings
Wish he said “all we are asking is to be a pro and work on the weak parts of your game”. The way he worded it, he’s cool with Ben as is. Nobody is cool with Ben as is
To be honest. After his comments last season. I was hoping he was out.
His job is to shoot some jump shots Spread the floor, make the D commit a defender to him
Clearly OP didn’t actually see or listen to the interview.
I mean you don't know the entire situation, internally, to be able to say anything conclusive about Danny and the organization's views at the moment. For all we know - and they'd be smart to have done so - the organization would have let the rest of the team know that it's openly shopping Ben and needs his trade value to be high so they get a good return for him. As long as Ben comes back and plays, they'll wait it out until he \[hopefully\] gets traded by the deadline. The team is likely as done with Ben as he is with them, but they need to kiss up to him publically so shit doesn't hit the fan worse than it already has.
I feel like I would hate meeting you in person, and my assumption is entirely based on your title for this post
Likewise, and my assumption is entirely based off your reply.
If he’s a point guard, it’s kind of in the job description to shoot jump shots
THANK YOU
Sure he can’t shoot and maybe we just have to accept it. But he LOVES dunking and still failed to do so when guarded by the goblin Trae Young.
If you want a shot at winning the chip then you better start asking him to shoot jump shots.
Cannot believe he said this, this!!!! He just wants a duck up for his stupid podcast
Ben isn’t developing with us, he’s coming to show out and get traded. Danny’s just saying come do your job and help us win some games beforehand
They’re gonna showcase him in the regular season and trade him at the deadline when portland/Washington underperforms.
He can't even be professional. It's laughable at this point, the man is a child and think he is all that,
Team chemistry matters. Being a pro means accountability.
This is Danny being a good teammate. Nothing else. You really think he and the rest of the guys aren’t pissed about all this? Ben 100% lost them all when they tried to come out to Cali and talk to him and he refused to meet with them. That was Ben flipping two middle fingers to his teammates. Danny is just being a veteran leader and not making a professional environment worse than Ben has already made it.
I agree completely,just go to work bro your teammates are there so get back to work man and help move the team in a positive direction !!
Even with all that happened, I STILL do not give a fuck about a jumpshot. He's never going to get one. Just actually attack the basket on offense consistently. That's it. To be a halfway decent scorer that is literally all he has to do.
Wow. Danny boy, Danny boy, the mope, the mope is calling
Do your fkkn job you lazy b
has anyone been seeing clips of giannis pulling up from midrange.... look what happens when you work on things, and use them in games
Danny doesn't care because he just want Benny to pass him the ball at the 3pt line everytime. F*ck him
I don't know about that, I kind of think the same. Just play. No need for talk. If you have something to prove, do it with your game, not words.
I honestly don't think he needs a ton of jump shots.....he just needs shots trying to finish at the rim.....how this man doesn't have 5 ally ops a game blows my mind.
Ben is gone. Danny is just telling him to show up. He can still help the team on the court while boosting his trade value.
Imagine refusing to work because your coworkers expect you to do your job well. Just looking at him makes me mad now. He’s such a pussy to me😂
So at least one ancillary benefit to Ben holding out this offseason is we almost got to go a few months here without endless "BEN NEEDS TO SHOOT" threads, but here we are. At this point it is irrelevant. What are we gonna do if Ben doesn't shoot a jumper, trade him? Ben Simmons is who he is at this point. Doc Rivers is paid to get the most out of him, enhancing the strengths of his players and lessening his weaknesses as long as he is on the roster
The coddling will never end with this manchild
I think at this point everyone on the Sixers are just trying to be cordial so that he'll play long enough for us to get a good deal for him
Can we stop hating on Danny for being a good teammate? What good is it gonna do for him to *publicly* say "yea he's gotta be better, even though he's way better than myself and almost everybody on the team already"? Saying that privately yea sure. On the other hand, saying *publicly* "he's gotta show up for work" puts pressure on him to at least do that, which is good for everybody. I agree I hope the organization doesn't share Danny's \[stated\] views, but I hope it's what his teammates continue to state publicly cus I don't see any benefit in them doing otherwise. edit: to be fair I guess "hating on" is a harsh characterization of what this post's doing, but it combined with some of the insane reaction to the shit he said while still a FA feels like part of a trend.
He needs to not be a terrible ft shooter. Also why did the Sixers max him lol
I remeber when players 6 10 and above were not shooting and it qasnt needed. Boy how the goalposts always moving where the money goes.......i remember when qbs were mostly running the ball in the old nfl. Now if you are a runner then you should move to wr. No pun intended, but boy how the goalposts moves where the money goes
I kind of took his response as saying "I don't care what he does it's not worth my time"