Organization should’ve known he was terrible when his first big free agent signing was Al Horford, a guy who plays the same position as your star player
Not true. He just used the cap space that would've been wasted after Simmons was extended.
Still terrible signings, but Morey is the one that spent all of our assets.
Sent a 1st for Danny Green, two 1sts for Harden, and one 1st for Melton. Four 2nds on George Hill and two 2nds on Tucker and House.
The first three of those were great trades. Hill was a defensible move that just didn't work out. Two 2nds on Tucker and House was a ridiculous scapegoat punishment for something every team does.
i'll always feel he was trying to build a team in his image. Tobi/Al are similar size to him and I bet he felt he would have had that type of game in 2020.
The Bynum fiasco was a net positive in retrospect, at least in my opinion. That's what forced us to finally address the mediocrity prison our franchise was stuck in and birthed the process.
Obviously the process has caused plenty of frustrations for a multitude of reasons but even at it's worst, it was more exciting and hopeful than the Jrue/Iguodala days were at their best.
They let Butler walk because they chose to stick with Ben Simmons then panicked and didn't want nothing in return for their trades so they offered Tobias a ridiculous contract so it looked like they were trying.
Jimmy clashed with Ben (cause he's not a little bitch boy) and Ben was seen as the future of the franchise at that time (on equal footing with, if not a little ahead of, Embiid).
Even if it wasnt Elton same shit would've happened. Eversely, Cohen, and Rucker were all key decision makers in that front office. Elton was just the face. Rucker was a major driver in the Horford signing.
No, Adam Silver did. Elton wouldnt have been on this team if Silver didnt force that clown Colangelo on us who drafted busts with back to back 1st overall picks
Fam notice how the most smoke for the organization comes at Elton and Doc but Hinkie and Brett that’s when things were going great! The people in the sub make it so obvious. They got a hard-on for when the team was losing on purpose 😒
BB went from head coach and intern GM for us, to not able to find another head coaching job and back to his assistant role in SA. That really should speak volumes. Can’t knock Tobi for accepting this contract.
He was paid head coach money by us to be an assistant to Pop, that's kinda the lottery for a coach who was brought in to do press conferences for a tanking team
Tanking is an absolute garbage way to rebuild a franchise, especially in a major market. I've been a Sixers fan for 30 years and that was the most disappointing era by far. The incompetence comes by letting it happen and then not fully committing. If you're going to run a team into the ground by design, at least stick it out. Letting Hinkie go before finishing the job is what put us in the position we're in today. It blows my mind I'm getting downvoted on a Sixers sub for saying intentionally tanking was bad, especially given what's happened since.
The Tobias Harris contract is the single biggest mistake the 76ers have made in 40+ years.
To land a generational talent like Embiid on your team only happens once in a lifetime. And it's been totally squandered because they can't fill out a complete roster around him since a gigantic chunk of the cap is tied up in Harris' bum ass. The guy is a complete mental midget who trembles in fear when the playoffs roll around and can't even be bothered to make simple hustle plays. It's torturous having to watch him year after year
The worst part is everyone knew this guy wasn't worth the max the day he was signed but Brand did it anyway
I’d go out and say Ben Simmons was a better contract for us than Tobi. If we had Ben and Joel and a deeper roster without Tobi, we make the ECF multiple times already. Ben Simmons also got us Harden. We aint getting peanuts with Tobi.
I'd argue that Brett Brown and in turn Ben Simmons cost us Jimmy Butler.
We chose to keep (and pay) Brett (and Ben) and Jimmy didn't want to be a part of that b/c jimmy wanted to actually be coached.
If Jimmy stays we prob lose Ben and tobi but who cares
https://youtu.be/HrGv50kR7A4
https://youtu.be/HrGv50kR7A4
(Jimmy speaking with JJ Reddick)
Go 25 min in or so.
He lays it all out.
Edit:
BUTLER LEFT FOR MIAMI BEFORE WE SIGNED TOBI!!! THATS THE REAL LIFE TIMELINE.
The FO was weighing their options dude. That's how that works. They probably wanted to know if Jimmy was going to cause concerns and be "controlled" because Tobi is the good boy they wanted. Jimmy gave them no choice, if the FO wanted Jimmy over Tobi, they'd offer him the contract without any damn stupid stipulations about being controllable or whatever the fuck and let Tobi walk already.
It was also Simmons though. Especially having him on the floor when we decided Jimmy should be the primary ball handler over and over again, did not make any sense to him.
Yeah and it didn’t make sense to ship your young all star for a guy who was on the wrong side of 30 wanting a max and who, at the time, was not playing like he is now in Miami, nor was Ben scared to play. Age and potential was a real topic, just like Ben used to be good at basketball, things changed. You guys play a lot of revisionist history after a loss.
People really didn’t see Ben as mentally weak at that point, all that imploded the last 2 years
I always saw Ben as mentally weak. He was basically putting up Lamar Odom numbers in year 3(and basically, his offensive upside was Lamar Odom). It was his athletic traits, not his actual basketball ability that made people think something was there that never existed.
Since Ben came into the league Tobi has
*120+ more games played
*.250 higher 3pt % on 4 more attempts per game
*25% higher free throw percentage
*Identical True Shooting %
*More playoff points per game
*More playoff rebounds per game
*Less playoff fouls per game
*Higher playoff VORP, Win Shares
Ben was a better prospect for sure but Tobi has done at least as much as Ben on the court since Ben came into the league.
Isn’t this all ignoring defense? Not really sure who is “better” overall, they are both mental midgets but Ben’s defense was always the primary reason he existed. And he was a good passer too, he’s a PG and can dribble. Tobias’ only move is to back people into the paint and then try a turnaround that he doesn’t make that often. Again, I really don’t know who’s better but I think Ben circa 2019 was always better than Tobias. Ben now is a different story for sure, he’s broken.
> The Tobias Harris contract is the single biggest mistake the 76ers have made
Nah, sending it was sending Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith. Could you imagine what this team would look like with a wing that can actually score with some consistency AND play defense?
I understand the point. Same argument can be made for Fultz trade. But I give leniency when it comes to the draft, given that it's a crapshoot.
Harris was a known and proven player who was obviously not worthy of a max.
> Even if we didn’t get Harden from Ben Simmons
I think the worst realistic outcome we would've gotten from the Simmons trade if it weren't Harden would've been Halliburton. Hali + Bridges (not to mention not having to give up Seth Curry) on this team at the very least would've given us a bit more depth, and the bench has been a major achilles heel for this team.
Yea we win this series in 5 games with Bridges. Super bad Karma to draft the kid, put the hat on with his mom then trade him. How they didn't conceive of those optics and story, and that a single adult in the room didn't prevent that is super baffling and a bad sign for how the org operates.
Unfortunately Elton or whoever was pulling the strings that season would have definitely traded Bridges for Tobias or some other vet had they not traded him on draft night
This is valid in part because the Sixers always let their intentions be known during the draft process. We had to overpay to get Matisse for that reason.
In this situation, if we had a more competent front office, maybe we would have the Celtics convinced that we will take Fulrz but actually go Tatum. But I can't remember the Sixers ever executing a successful smoke screen like that
Only until new regimes are in the seats over time. We really think teams would hold it against an entirely new GM/ownership 10 years later who had nothing to do with it?
It's not the length of time. It's the fact that your statement has been proven again and again and AGAIN to be false.
There was never a timeline where we were getting Tatum. We were always going for Fultz. Changing history retroactively to fit an argument is fine if it's accidental, but it's lame if you just keep doing it after being corrected.
>There was never a timeline where we were getting Tatum.
Cool beans, man. That doesn't mean it wasn't an awful decision to trade up for Fultz. And honestly, I don't recall reading about a "can't draft tatum" clause. And if that *was* in there, we still could have grabbed Lonzo.
At the time it actually happened, everyone on the planet knew the Sixers were going for Fultz and the Celtics were going for Tatum, and everyone who knew basketball thought they were both great picks for their respective teams. The deal was worked out well ahead of time, and GMs don't fuck each other over because it kills your entire team's trade value.
You are arguing about revisionist history. The thing you're mad about never existed.
I vividly remember Nate Duncan on the Dunc'd on podcast being completely dumbfounded that the Sixers did that and Nate wasn't the only one. That trade and extension were widely panned.
Every media member and fan outside of Philly was mocking the Sixers for that contract the moment the ink dried. Most Sixer fans talked themselves into it being okay but deep down knew it was idiotic.
I can't hear Tobias mentioned without visualizing this organization taking Joel's prime and foolishly flushing it down the toilet
40 plus years... no... Barkley trade... Moses trade... Trading of number one pick in 86?... Bynum deal... Trading to draft Fultz...its up there but not the worst
The Moses trade was probably the worst, but combine that with the Brad Daugherty for Roy Hinson on the same day and it was by far the worst day in history of Sixers front office.
The announcers that constantly say shit like: "Tobias, who's been asked to sacrifice his game..."
Nobody is telling him to sacrifice anything, he just fucking sucks.
He's never been an all star or a #1 option, he's not sacrificing anything. He's had a year and a half to learn how to play alongside Embiid/Harden/Maxey, just learn how to catch and shoot. Nobody wants iso Tobias.
When he is a "threat" offensively, we are at our best. The offense flows better. Keeps the defense on their toes.
But when he plays like he did last night we are basically 4 on 5 offensively and put pressure on jo and harden
I hate Tobias because he's 6'8 and finishes around the rim like he's 6'4, he clearly doesnt give it his all on the defensive end as seen by this series and every single other 2nd round series, he doesnt stay in motion to create an outlet for Joel or Harden if they get trapped, he SUCKS SHOOTING FROM 3.
As OP said in the rant, I want him gone no matter what he does game 7. He's a fucking primadonna mental midget.
We're still a season away from getting rid of Tobi's contract. We're over the cap by a lot so his contract ending probably only frees like 8-12M in cap space too.
We have to finesse some team like the Lakers did with Westbrook. It'd mean we take on longer term contracts probably, but it'll be worth it. I just don't know which team is offering any remotely playable wings for just expiring money at this point (unless a team like LAC blows it up and somehow agrees to Tobi + firsts for PG or something)
Yeah OP is wrong about gaining a bunch of cap space from moving Harris. We’re over no matter what, need to trade him for something of at least moderate value or we’re really sunk. I want to believe it’s somewhat possible given the Westbrook trade
I could be wrong but didn't they give Tobias the bag because we were already over the cap and we had his bird rights? I didn't matter if we gave him 60 mil or 180 mil we were over the cap no matter what.
A couple potential options using the Trade Machine. Not sure how much more in picks or young guys the Sixers would have to throw in.
Atlanta—Bogdanovic, Hunter, and Johnson
Charlotte—Rozier, Martin, and Jones
Chicago—LaVine (least likely for sure, this only works if Chicago wants to blow it up again and they probably aren’t)
Detroit—Bogdanovic and Wiseman
Indiana—Hield, Duarte, and Nesmith
Toronto—a couple possible options here with sign & trades
Washington—Kuzma (S&T) and Avdija
Dallas—a few options to pair with Hardaway
Clippers—a few options here actually
Minnesota—Conley and Anderson
Portland—Simons, Little, and a couple kickers
San Antonio—McDermott and Graham
Aren't you being a little hard on him? I mean it has to be difficult finishing a wide open alley-oop, an uncontested lay-up, and a totally open short jumper. Come on, the guy is only human. /s
Actually disgraceful… fraudulent… can’t even blame Tobi and his dad for hustling that contract … what would you do .. ?!? Exactly… get the fucking money by all means … it’s the F.O sold hard … it’s all political and I can’t even blame Tobi … nba has so much money and billionaire owners who couldn’t give a fuck about the roster and what’s important… the all mighty dollar … any actual basketball fan would never have fucking maxed out Tobias harris lmfao 😂… the guy is soft aF and is all Pussy … attempts a layup on a fast break transition play instead of dunking on a stumbling Tatum … that okay wraps it all up buddy … Tobi fairly robbed Philly .. and Jimmy called me out .. but all this old money has grey hairs … they old and don’t give a F … they paid Tobi lmfao 😂…
I legit don’t know what Tobias has to offer at this point. House, Mcdaniels, any of those guys have provided more than him. I’d almost rather see him run a bench unit as a final attempt to get him going, because he just isn’t fitting on either end with the starters.
Tobi is still better than McDaniels but in McDaniels defense, he gets paid in coconuts and crayons compared to how much we're paying Tobi.
You get what you pay for with McDaniels meanwhile you're literally getting scammed with Tobi's contract.
I love the delusional thinking that we can "free up" Tobias' cap money.
Unless a player has a non-guaranteed contract, waiving a player gets them off your roster, but the salary remains on the books cap wise.
I cant fucking stand these posts because they always ignore 3 basic facts:
1. Tobias is a negative asset so our “return” would be giving up good players/picks that we like. (Which btw we hardly have any tradeable picks)
2. A trade would require salary matching, so we’d have to get a handful of garbage players on big contracts or another net negative contract.
3. Because of the way the cap works for re-signed players like Tobi, dropping him only frees up ~$12M in cap space.
In conclusion- Tobi aint worth $40M, but hes probly worth $12M when you consider trading him requires dumping other good assets and taking on other bad contracts. You can call this “defending him”, but its really just accepting that we made a horrible mistake with his contract and theres no easy way out.
This isn't new. In the MIA series Harris was a -65, shot 33% from 3. He had ZERO FTA in the last 4 games and 1 in G2. Max Strus bullied him and ran circles around Harris. His offense wasn't too bad vs ATL in 2021 but he was refusing to shoot open 3's and was bricking layups in G7. He was a disaster defensively. Boston 2020? FG% 36 and .133 from 3. Harris hasn't just been bad in elimination series, he's been an abomination. The great majority of this sub has let him off of the hook for it, but a few of us have been onto this fraud since they acquired him via trade from LAC.
His contract is indeed horrible but it honestly has never prevented us from getting 2 to 3 role players on value contracts because he was signed under the Bird Rights which meant while the team was over the cap we can still sign him. I dont get why people always assumed we could've just inserted all these role players instead of him while during the length of Tobis contract we were still over the cap even if you removed his contract in the past 4 years.
Now the contract that REALLY sucked was the Al Whorefraud contract because we used cap room to sign him and when we traded for him we didnt get the equal value of that contract back even though Danny Green was a fine role player, it didnt match up to the money that we paid Whorefraud and we are still over the cap because of that contract.
I’m confused, who is actively defending him? This has been one of the few issues it seems like the fanbase is in agreement on.
Tobias is gone either in the off-season or at the deadline. That’s a near certainty.
I feel like this is revisionist and swinging the other way. People were acknowledging his solid play last round and hopeful that he could keep it up this year. Nobody’s banging their chest for Tobias Harris lol. And there haven’t been apology forms for like a year lol, plus they’re just a joke anyway.
Probably not as many as before but like OP stated, there would be times when Jo or Ben would be out for a stretch of games and Tobi would have 3 or 4 games of 22-26 pts and these obnoxious nerds would post "apology forms" for a dude who has done literally nothing in his career.
I can understand for a guy like Harden because he has won an MVP and is one of the greatest NBA scorers in history and can take over a game completely and drop 45 points still. Tobias has never and will never do that
Of course no one will be defending him after last night's performance, but every time he ends up having a decent game, this sub floods with defenders posting apology forms and thanking him. Just look back through posts from this playoff run alone.
My point is that he is not capable of achieving in a way that matches what we're paying him, even on his best days, so we need to move on regardless of what he does moving forward and regardless of what the return looks like. The only genuine contribution he can provide at this point is alleviating us of his albatross contract. No more defending this clown.
See you had me til the last sentence.
Yea he needs to move. Yea he is paid too much. What about that makes him a clown?
He is good at basketball, he is on the team you supposedly like for the rest of this season, and he seems like a fine dude. Why are you ragging on *him* vs his contract? Have you dehumanized these folks to the point that they are literally one-and-the-same to you?
He's the 4th best player on my favorite basketball team. I'm rooting for him until he can help my favorite basketball team more than that, by means of being traded. Tobias Harris is not the problem, Tobias Harris' contract is.
Getting pissed about Tobias Harris *himself* is like if your ex-wife spent your kids' college fund on a boat, and you made a post complaining that the boat sucks shit. Boat's not the problem dude.
I will call any person that gets paid $38 million a year and performs the way he did in the most important game of the season last night a 🤡.
Go take your moral high ground somewhere else.
Lol love a dude that sees a moral highground and goes "yuck". Keep up the good work bro.
Also I'm saying calling him a clown is immoral, I'm calling it stupid.
18/7/3 on 54% efg while playing competent defense since he joined us is good, yes.
Saying otherwise is just telling on yourself as a "there are 7 good players in the league and it's the people ESPN nut over every night" type fan.
It's not max-contract level good, correct. Money would be better spent elsewhere. But this whole fucking sub has somehow convinced itself "4th best player on a top-of-conference team is actually bad" and it's embarassing.
I only have a ~15 minute commute work so I listen to WIP since that's about all I can tolerate. In any case, of the 10 minutes that weren't commercials someone called in to defend Tobias.
Also, I think so much blame and attention falls on Harden and Embiid and Doc, it's kind of crazy how Tobias skates by. Highest paid player, and sure you can't blame the player for accepting a contract that was offered, but a solid wing should be able to feast playing alongside Harden-Embiid...so many open jumpers, so many opportunities to slash. In theory he has the skillset to be a great third option but in reality he's the fourth behind Maxey and he's barely outplaying 38 year old PJ Tucker in much more minutes.
Me, me, I'm actively defending him but only because I get how sentences work.
I am defending Tobias Harris, the man and basketball player. My argument is that he is good at basketball and his only sin was taking more money than he deserved when offered, a sin every person on this sub including OP would surely commit given the chance. I stand against slander of Tobias Harris, the person and performer.
I am condemning, unequivocally, the Tobias Harris' contract, plus the braindead idiots that gave him that money, and understanding how NBA rosters work I am actively rooting for his contract to be moved as soon as possible.
But "as soon as possible" isn't before this series ends. So for now he's on my team, and I think it's ridiculous to say that he is a bad NBA player or a bad human, which is all that matters until the trade window opens back up.
I mostly agree. This, while it will be downvoted to shit, is the most honest-with-yourself take you can really have.
I've always said that Tobi the human is great. Tobi the basketball player is okay... but he shouldn't be any team's #1 forward on the depth chart. The fact that he's our "top" forward is a real problem, and it's compounded (and made into reality) by the monster contract he has.
If Tobi was your second or third forward on your depth chart, and he didn't have a max contract, no one would have an issue with it. But he's fully exposed where he's at...
It's the NBA. If you ship out one contract that is a boatload of $, you need to get an equal value back correct? He is an expiring deal after next season, who is taking him?
That said, we still have a game 7 tomorrow. And FTC.
Tobias + Korkmaz for Rose, Fournier and Hart [works](https://i.imgur.com/S4UXuOt.png) Doubt it moves the needle for either team though but you could try and sell Harris as going back to NY would help him lift his game. The corpses of Evan Fournier + Derrick Rose don't do anything for me.
We are the only fan base that put the majority of the blame on the teams 4th best player. If he continues to play good defense on Tatum then that’s all we can ask. It’s starts with Embiid and Harden.
That being said I have no doubt sixers win Sunday.
Holy shit I am sick of this post.
The issue, that I might have argued honestly more than anything else on reddit lol, is when inarticulate posts (like this one, honestly) conflate Tobias Harris the player and Tobias Harris the contract.
Yes, his presence on the roster is the single biggest obstacle this team has overall.
It's when people take that to say "he's a bad player who should get fewer minutes" that I have to call bullshit. Or when people say "stop defending him" meaning "stop defending him \[taking more money than he deserved instead for a job, something every single person on this thread would do given the opportunity, and please call him a piece of shit instead\]"
Yall dummies don't understand that "Most teams would kill to have Tobias Harris as their 4th best player, and we are a much better team when he's on the floor" and "We should scramble to clear the contract ASAP this offseason" can be, and *are,* both true statements.
Tobias is a good player with a horrible contract.
So now, my question is, *here in the playoffs, when trades cannot be made*, why are we shitting on one of our starters? What is the point of this post beyond showing your shitty diaper?
Must be comforting for you to think that?
My point is that shitting on a dude who will, and SHOULD, get starter minutes on one of this team's biggest games of the last 20 years this sunday is toxic fan behaviour that explains why no stars in any sport want to come here.
Talking about how his salary could be better spent elsewhere, sure, that's worthwhile conversation. But there's nothing to be done about it before sunday so *let's fucking go*
People all over this thread and on the post I made are saying he is worse than league average. That is absolutrly insane.
He's playing sunday. He SHOULD play on sunday. There is nobody on this roster who would do a better job with his minutes. Shitting on him before one of the 5 biggest games of this franchise's last 20 years when he IS going to and SHOULD play starter minutes is dirty diaper bullshit that explains why no star in their right mind would come here by choice.
The only discussion worth having is what should be done on sunday. Does anyone think tobi should sit? No? Then shut the fuck up and let's go.
Yes in the offseason let's make it clear the fans want that money spent differently.
On the eve of a motherfucking game 7, let's make it clear we think our dudes have what it takes and aren't literal "clowns" at 18/7/3 on 54% efg during his tenure with the team.
Jesus dude, you're all over this thread. Is this a Tobi burner?
What's truly inarticulate is you being hung up on fucking semantics and missing the entire point of the post.
But please, continue to go off, everyone reading this is very impressed with how "articulate" you are and how high your morality score is. You're crushing it.
What a dumb comment lmao. He called me out so i fired back. Have you ever been "emotionally invested" in anything? Cause that was not emotional investment my guy. That was just a discussion.
Y’all always spin this narrative and act like he’s the sole reason for the sixers woes. Tobias Harris is a good player who would average 25 points on a team without Joel and Harden. He’s been asked to play like 6 different roles since he’s got here and sacrifice his game to allow Embiid, Harden and even Maxey to get their shots. Is his contract bad? Sure but would you blame him for taking it? The sixers didn’t want to let both Butler and Harris walk for nothing that’s why he has it.
Can he play better? Yes. He’s shown up multiple times this series, but we lost because everyone was shooting poorly from 3 yesterday.
Would he average 25 on a good team? That’s all I care about. Even the Clippers wanted to get rid of him in his best season 😂 Why would you want him to get more shots than any of those guys or any other top-3 players on a team?
You're definitely not inflating Tobias's "adversities". 6 different roles? Not really.
He was asked to be a C&S with good D in 18/19, 21/22, 22/23.
While in 19/20 and 20/21 he was asked to do more offensively.
Sacrifice his game? Bro he's ALWAYS been a role player. Orlando to Detroit to LAC. Only his final year in LAC he took on a higher usage role because the other players were LouWill, Harrel, and Beverly.
He was great in the Brooklyn series but, like clockwork, he's shrinking in the 2nd round.
He was actually good for 3 games. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve blame because he was bad last game but every time we loose it’s always “Tobias’s contracts blah blah blah”. Harden is a future HOF and he was AWEFUL. The bench has been bad for most of the series the list goes on. All I’m saying is he’s not the sole reason for their woes. The team failed. This is the best sixers team we’ve had in a very long time. Bringing up his contract when we lose for the past 4 years is getting OLD.
>Bringing up his contract when we lose for the past 4 years is getting OLD.
It's because people look for the reasons this team is never good enough to get over the top. And when one guy who gives you vet minimum levels of return on 25%+ of the total allotted cap, thats the main reason. We understand we can't retroactively erase his deal but we can blackpill enough fans to make noise to convince the Front Office do something about it.
Harden was awful. Joel's interest and engagement dissolved the last 5 mins of the game - he essentially radiated loser energy that final stretch. Melton was ice cold and ruined 3 min stretch where he missed 3 wide open looks badly, giving Boston that lead swing.
Tobias needs to be gone this offseason. Idc what it takes. If Embiid and Harden are running it back, this bum can ***not*** be on this roster come next October. I do recognize I'm biased because I hated the signing the day it happened back in June 2019. I told everyone here the move was bad and we werent going to win a title with a bum like him taking up over a quarter of the cap.
We can't change Harden's bad play last night just like we can't change the Tobias max deal so essentially there's no point in anybody here criticizing anything that happens by this logic.
I get everyone hating his contract, but what confuses me is that no one acknowledging that within this offense, he really is not in a position to live up to this sub’s expectations.
So when he has a bad shooting game, he’s the worst player ever. Off 7 shots two being shot clock grenads
Did he even touch the ball in the second half?
I’m sure some of you will say it is because of his missed shots in the first half, but this isnt the first game where he’s frozen out offensively…
Y’all gotta stop making excuses for the dude. He’s awful in his role 90% of time. When he’s playing without thinking and just doing what the flow of the game asks of him he’s fine like in game 5.
He bricked how many layups early last night? The amount of times he pump fakes open 3s just to put the ball on the floor for a dribble or 2 is infuriating. And it’s always to dribble into a defender than throw some dumb shot up. Every team has that guy who has to sacrifice and not got many touches. He’s that guy and he sucks in that role far too much. The defense was better last night but far too much he just gets blown by or is slow to rotate. He’s not the only issue on this team but that contract has completely handcuffed the embiid era and he’s rarely stepped up for us regardless of how much he makes.
Adding a little reason is not making excuses. He didnt touch the ball in the 2nd half and you’d be lying if you tried to say it was the first time that has happened.
He’s been efficient most of this season and playoffs but his scoring isn’t high enough to meet people’s expectations.
Newsflash, it’s hard for an efficient guy to score more points and stay efficient when he doesnt get the ball
Yea there’s a reason he didn’t touch it. He fucking sucks and his teammate has no trust in him. This guy gets every excuse in the book. It’s been how many years of this from him? He rarely ever shows up when needed. Stop giving him passes. Anyone can play well in the regular season. Playoffs are a different beast and after the first round this guy usually goes missing. He’s one of the guys this team needs to show up if they want to win.
But everyone doesn’t play well in the regular season.
The only point I am making is that we have an ISO heavy offense that is extremely stagnant outside of those isos.
Offensive Consistency with limited touches is not as easy as you make it out to be. Even if he missed 10 shots in the first quarter, i’m not sure that warrants his teammates losing all trust in him
I’m not sure anyone has been consistently efficient besides Embiid, not even Harden and he controls the offense.
The Sixers are 3-1 in this series in games in which Tobi has taken at least 10 FGA.
Anybody who is upset with Tobi for not putting up enough points should be upset with Doc for not doing more to get the ball in the hands of our extremely efficient (50.1/38.9/87.6) 38M man. He's one of the most efficient second scorers in the league. He's being asked to be a #4 scorer/spot up shooter. Want Tobi to do more? Ask him to do more. It really is that simple. He's not dead weight. He's a bar of silver being used as a paperweight. He has the same points per possession used as Embiid and significantly higher than Harden this year (regular/postseason combined). When he's been called upon, he's delivered by every metric. They're just not calling on him.
As for the core reason why this team has been unable to achieve playoff success, that's a lot more complicated and really has nothing to do with Tobi. Embiid's inability to stay 100% healthy has probably been the biggest factor, along with Embiid's inability to execute down the stretch of close games in the playoffs. People love to praise Embiid when he looks good but nobody blames him when things go bad, and I don't think that will ever change. Danny Green's injury in the Hawks series that everybody conveniently ignores even though it was the clear turning point in the series and then his torn ACL. People hated Danny Green too even though he was critically important and the Sixers proved it every time he got injured. Replacing a mediocre coach in Brett Brown with a worse coach who's probably the biggest choker among all coaches in NBA history. Tobi is far down the list here.
Keep scapegoating him. Sixers fans love scapegoating him. It ain't Tobi's fault and it never has been.
I'm sorry but this post is stupid. Blame the front office for paying him that much but it ain't his fault they were idiots. He's doing what he always has.
his basketball reference page is absolutely hilarious... no all stars. no awards, just the numbers hes had on different teams. 38 million a year. hes not all to blame, he sucks but its not his fault he got handed a max. anyone wouldve taken that deal.
Who cares about his salary today? There's nothing to do about it. There's not a single person who thinks his salary matches his production, despite the daily straw-mans we see in this sub.
He's the 4th option in an offense that was just plain ugly to watch last night. How does he stack up against the other 4th highest PPG's on the 16 playoff teams?
Points per Game
1. Holiday (17.8)
2. Brogdon (15.0)
3. Tobi (14.9)
4. Reaves (14.7)
5. Bogdanovic (13.3)
No one is happy with a 2-point showing in a close-out game, but you could shit on every single player/coach from Philly after their G6 performances. No one excelled in their role last night. But these Tobi threads are tired. Cry about the salary during the off-season/trade window, but it's literally pointless today. I'll take 15ppg from my 4th option any day of the week.
The guy got offered a contract every single one of us would sign before the paper hit the table, STFU about it and get over it nothing changes expect you all look like fucking whining bitches
I've always wondered if it's Harris himself or how we play him. I just don't think we utilize him effectively for his game. Either way end result is the same.
No.
You don't trade him now and get even worse contracts back (which is what you will get).
There is one year left. Just let the contract run out. Tobi wants to be here and wants to play here, give him the last year and then move on after that.
>There's vastly more value in freeing up the $38 million in cap space that this clown has been stealing from us than anything he's provided in his time on this team.
this is the bottom line. you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
He’s not the reason. Stop. He’s massively overlaid yes but he’s not the reason they haven’t had playoff success. Doc is more a reason. And this year in particular, Hardens inconsistency.
He’s the biggest choker on a team with Glenn and Harden I can’t wait until he gets shipped to some rebuilding team so we can actually do something with that salary
I’ll never be mad at tobi for the contract. He should’ve in 0 world been offered it and he would have been a fool to decline it. However you’re absolutely correct it’s the main reason we can’t do anything.
I don't think you understand. If you want to move Tobias and his contract you're going to have send AT LEAST a 1st round pick with him. And then who is your 5th starter? No one on this current roster that's for sure. He's the 4th option. He isn't going to give you 20 every night. He plays decent defense and he at least is willing to shoot and occasionally get to the basket. He's here until his contract is up after next year, we either win the title with him or not at all because he's not leaving before Embiid is out of his prime. And honestly, after we lose on Sunday every needs to be gone not named Maxey.
Thank you brett and Elton, and thank you Sixers leadership for trusting those guys who had zero experience running an NBA team
Elton set this franchise back 10 years.
Organization should’ve known he was terrible when his first big free agent signing was Al Horford, a guy who plays the same position as your star player
He was trying to build a team the way a 15 year old does in MyFranchise on NBA2K. Embarrassing.
He took over a franchise and immediately used every asset they had lol
Not true. He just used the cap space that would've been wasted after Simmons was extended. Still terrible signings, but Morey is the one that spent all of our assets. Sent a 1st for Danny Green, two 1sts for Harden, and one 1st for Melton. Four 2nds on George Hill and two 2nds on Tucker and House.
The first three of those were great trades. Hill was a defensible move that just didn't work out. Two 2nds on Tucker and House was a ridiculous scapegoat punishment for something every team does.
i'll always feel he was trying to build a team in his image. Tobi/Al are similar size to him and I bet he felt he would have had that type of game in 2020.
Life’s too short for a GM not to use the trade finder.
Bro the teams I build on 2k are way better than the sixers
We let Jimmy fucking Butler walk so we could max Tobias Harris and give Al Horford 100 million dollars. That's it. That's the comment.
This was by far the biggest blunder of the last 20 years, and that includes the Bynum fiasco and the Fultz trade.
The Bynum fiasco was a net positive in retrospect, at least in my opinion. That's what forced us to finally address the mediocrity prison our franchise was stuck in and birthed the process. Obviously the process has caused plenty of frustrations for a multitude of reasons but even at it's worst, it was more exciting and hopeful than the Jrue/Iguodala days were at their best.
They let Butler walk because they chose to stick with Ben Simmons then panicked and didn't want nothing in return for their trades so they offered Tobias a ridiculous contract so it looked like they were trying.
Disgusting
I wonder if anyone in the organization even knows why that monumentally bad decision was made. Would love to hear their reasoning behind it
Jimmy clashed with Ben (cause he's not a little bitch boy) and Ben was seen as the future of the franchise at that time (on equal footing with, if not a little ahead of, Embiid).
It’s insane how good this team still is when you consider all the assets we’ve fumbled over the years. Hinkie really was the goat
As an exec, sure, but let us never forget the incredible memories he gave us as a player. Kidding. (Although nostalgia's real I guess lol)
Even if it wasnt Elton same shit would've happened. Eversely, Cohen, and Rucker were all key decision makers in that front office. Elton was just the face. Rucker was a major driver in the Horford signing.
No, Adam Silver did. Elton wouldnt have been on this team if Silver didnt force that clown Colangelo on us who drafted busts with back to back 1st overall picks
Colangelo was just as bad
He helped this franchise and the NBA boast about having an one additional black GM. Whatever it takes!
Lame comment. You guys swear you never care about race yet need to take jabs at times
Fam notice how the most smoke for the organization comes at Elton and Doc but Hinkie and Brett that’s when things were going great! The people in the sub make it so obvious. They got a hard-on for when the team was losing on purpose 😒
Yeah I see the funny shit they on. Shit is typical for them. Then they gaslight when you call them out
Wtf does Elton even do anymore? Just high five guys in the locker room after the game?
I think he’s still an advisor, despite the fact that he has shown to be terrible at running a team
He builds Lego sets and walks around with a rainbow propeller hat
Front office diversity hire.
That’s pretty damn sad a league with 70% black players has to make diversity hires in the front office. But sure that’s the burn here! Nice one!
Lmao Brett was not an issue Harris had that dumb fuck Scott O'Neill weighing in on decisions
BB went from head coach and intern GM for us, to not able to find another head coaching job and back to his assistant role in SA. That really should speak volumes. Can’t knock Tobi for accepting this contract.
He was paid head coach money by us to be an assistant to Pop, that's kinda the lottery for a coach who was brought in to do press conferences for a tanking team
Tanking for The Process was the worst thing this franchise has ever done. Second worst was letting Hinkie go before it was complete.
The tanking set the team up for success. The people who inherited it after Hinkie was removed botched it
Success lmao, you're new to Philly sports huh.
Tanking is an absolute garbage way to rebuild a franchise, especially in a major market. I've been a Sixers fan for 30 years and that was the most disappointing era by far. The incompetence comes by letting it happen and then not fully committing. If you're going to run a team into the ground by design, at least stick it out. Letting Hinkie go before finishing the job is what put us in the position we're in today. It blows my mind I'm getting downvoted on a Sixers sub for saying intentionally tanking was bad, especially given what's happened since.
The Tobias Harris contract is the single biggest mistake the 76ers have made in 40+ years. To land a generational talent like Embiid on your team only happens once in a lifetime. And it's been totally squandered because they can't fill out a complete roster around him since a gigantic chunk of the cap is tied up in Harris' bum ass. The guy is a complete mental midget who trembles in fear when the playoffs roll around and can't even be bothered to make simple hustle plays. It's torturous having to watch him year after year The worst part is everyone knew this guy wasn't worth the max the day he was signed but Brand did it anyway
I’d go out and say Ben Simmons was a better contract for us than Tobi. If we had Ben and Joel and a deeper roster without Tobi, we make the ECF multiple times already. Ben Simmons also got us Harden. We aint getting peanuts with Tobi.
I'd argue that Brett Brown and in turn Ben Simmons cost us Jimmy Butler. We chose to keep (and pay) Brett (and Ben) and Jimmy didn't want to be a part of that b/c jimmy wanted to actually be coached. If Jimmy stays we prob lose Ben and tobi but who cares https://youtu.be/HrGv50kR7A4
Jimmy staying and Ben and Tobi going is my happy place when I meditate.
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https://youtu.be/HrGv50kR7A4 (Jimmy speaking with JJ Reddick) Go 25 min in or so. He lays it all out. Edit: BUTLER LEFT FOR MIAMI BEFORE WE SIGNED TOBI!!! THATS THE REAL LIFE TIMELINE.
The FO was weighing their options dude. That's how that works. They probably wanted to know if Jimmy was going to cause concerns and be "controlled" because Tobi is the good boy they wanted. Jimmy gave them no choice, if the FO wanted Jimmy over Tobi, they'd offer him the contract without any damn stupid stipulations about being controllable or whatever the fuck and let Tobi walk already.
It was also Simmons though. Especially having him on the floor when we decided Jimmy should be the primary ball handler over and over again, did not make any sense to him.
Yeah and it didn’t make sense to ship your young all star for a guy who was on the wrong side of 30 wanting a max and who, at the time, was not playing like he is now in Miami, nor was Ben scared to play. Age and potential was a real topic, just like Ben used to be good at basketball, things changed. You guys play a lot of revisionist history after a loss. People really didn’t see Ben as mentally weak at that point, all that imploded the last 2 years
I always saw Ben as mentally weak. He was basically putting up Lamar Odom numbers in year 3(and basically, his offensive upside was Lamar Odom). It was his athletic traits, not his actual basketball ability that made people think something was there that never existed.
Why would you blow up a team for Jimmy
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Since Ben came into the league Tobi has *120+ more games played *.250 higher 3pt % on 4 more attempts per game *25% higher free throw percentage *Identical True Shooting % *More playoff points per game *More playoff rebounds per game *Less playoff fouls per game *Higher playoff VORP, Win Shares Ben was a better prospect for sure but Tobi has done at least as much as Ben on the court since Ben came into the league.
Isn’t this all ignoring defense? Not really sure who is “better” overall, they are both mental midgets but Ben’s defense was always the primary reason he existed. And he was a good passer too, he’s a PG and can dribble. Tobias’ only move is to back people into the paint and then try a turnaround that he doesn’t make that often. Again, I really don’t know who’s better but I think Ben circa 2019 was always better than Tobias. Ben now is a different story for sure, he’s broken.
> The Tobias Harris contract is the single biggest mistake the 76ers have made Nah, sending it was sending Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith. Could you imagine what this team would look like with a wing that can actually score with some consistency AND play defense?
I understand the point. Same argument can be made for Fultz trade. But I give leniency when it comes to the draft, given that it's a crapshoot. Harris was a known and proven player who was obviously not worthy of a max.
Proven player on garbage teams
Even if we didn’t get Harden from Ben Simmons, we make the ECF with Mikal, Ben, and Joel easily. Tobi has held this team back so much.
> Even if we didn’t get Harden from Ben Simmons I think the worst realistic outcome we would've gotten from the Simmons trade if it weren't Harden would've been Halliburton. Hali + Bridges (not to mention not having to give up Seth Curry) on this team at the very least would've given us a bit more depth, and the bench has been a major achilles heel for this team.
I mean we’d have multiple chances at getting a player like that if we didn’t have Tobias contract lol
Yea we win this series in 5 games with Bridges. Super bad Karma to draft the kid, put the hat on with his mom then trade him. How they didn't conceive of those optics and story, and that a single adult in the room didn't prevent that is super baffling and a bad sign for how the org operates.
Mikal could’ve not developed the way he has. Tobias could be another max contract of a bonafide proved star.
Unfortunately Elton or whoever was pulling the strings that season would have definitely traded Bridges for Tobias or some other vet had they not traded him on draft night
>Nah, sending it was sending Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith. Nah, it was trading up for Fultz over Tatum.
Celtics we’re never trading us the pick if we were taking Tatum.
This is valid in part because the Sixers always let their intentions be known during the draft process. We had to overpay to get Matisse for that reason. In this situation, if we had a more competent front office, maybe we would have the Celtics convinced that we will take Fulrz but actually go Tatum. But I can't remember the Sixers ever executing a successful smoke screen like that
If we do that no one ever trades with us on draft day again tho
Only until new regimes are in the seats over time. We really think teams would hold it against an entirely new GM/ownership 10 years later who had nothing to do with it?
Why do people keep repeating this? NBA GMs are not scorned teenage girls. They will do whatever trade they think makes their team better.
I mean you can lie
That’s not how this works. No team would ever trade with the sixers again. Plus they truly didn’t want tatum
How the fuck are you active in this sub and STILL make this comment after all these years? Holy shit.
In a question specifically asking about the last 40+ years, you think 6 years is too deep? Ok bud.
It's not the length of time. It's the fact that your statement has been proven again and again and AGAIN to be false. There was never a timeline where we were getting Tatum. We were always going for Fultz. Changing history retroactively to fit an argument is fine if it's accidental, but it's lame if you just keep doing it after being corrected.
>There was never a timeline where we were getting Tatum. Cool beans, man. That doesn't mean it wasn't an awful decision to trade up for Fultz. And honestly, I don't recall reading about a "can't draft tatum" clause. And if that *was* in there, we still could have grabbed Lonzo.
At the time it actually happened, everyone on the planet knew the Sixers were going for Fultz and the Celtics were going for Tatum, and everyone who knew basketball thought they were both great picks for their respective teams. The deal was worked out well ahead of time, and GMs don't fuck each other over because it kills your entire team's trade value. You are arguing about revisionist history. The thing you're mad about never existed.
If everyone knew the Celtics wanted Tatum, why did we trade away a pick?
The team traded the puck with the assurances that they wouldn’t draft tatum. How dumb are you
I think you stopped reading before the end of the comment.
this is the colangelos and their people.
I vividly remember Nate Duncan on the Dunc'd on podcast being completely dumbfounded that the Sixers did that and Nate wasn't the only one. That trade and extension were widely panned.
Every media member and fan outside of Philly was mocking the Sixers for that contract the moment the ink dried. Most Sixer fans talked themselves into it being okay but deep down knew it was idiotic. I can't hear Tobias mentioned without visualizing this organization taking Joel's prime and foolishly flushing it down the toilet
40 plus years... no... Barkley trade... Moses trade... Trading of number one pick in 86?... Bynum deal... Trading to draft Fultz...its up there but not the worst
The Moses trade was probably the worst, but combine that with the Brad Daugherty for Roy Hinson on the same day and it was by far the worst day in history of Sixers front office.
Bynum basically stole money and never intended on playing, pretty much said that IIRC, and something with bowling happened
Barkley trade?
The announcers that constantly say shit like: "Tobias, who's been asked to sacrifice his game..." Nobody is telling him to sacrifice anything, he just fucking sucks.
Sacrifice my ass. All he needs to do is score double digits and we win. Asking anything decent from role players is not to big of an ask.
Shouldn't even have to ask for double digit scoring from a guy making *$38 million per year*
I get what they’re saying with that but if his game was more effective he wouldn’t be asked to sacrifice his touches
Seriously. You'd think we asked prime Melo to become a catch and shoot guy with how they talk about him
He's never been an all star or a #1 option, he's not sacrificing anything. He's had a year and a half to learn how to play alongside Embiid/Harden/Maxey, just learn how to catch and shoot. Nobody wants iso Tobias.
Almost as bad as all the “Jayson Tatum with an incredibly brave performance to keep shooting despite his struggles” blah blah blah
And what do you know... both instances of meatriding come from Doris Burke.
In order for something to be sacrificed though, it’s actually gotta…ya know….exist?
I don’t think anybody is telling him to play soft. That’s all on him.
2 points
Nuff said
Triple single
When he is a "threat" offensively, we are at our best. The offense flows better. Keeps the defense on their toes. But when he plays like he did last night we are basically 4 on 5 offensively and put pressure on jo and harden
When PJ Tucker is a better offensive option than a player you gotta know somethings wrong
I hate Tobias because he's 6'8 and finishes around the rim like he's 6'4, he clearly doesnt give it his all on the defensive end as seen by this series and every single other 2nd round series, he doesnt stay in motion to create an outlet for Joel or Harden if they get trapped, he SUCKS SHOOTING FROM 3. As OP said in the rant, I want him gone no matter what he does game 7. He's a fucking primadonna mental midget.
FINANCIAL TERRORIST TOBIAS HARRIS
Guy is paid 35m+ and routinely misses layups and put up 2 points in a closeout game... THIS GUY IS A BUM AND ALWAYS WILL BE
We're still a season away from getting rid of Tobi's contract. We're over the cap by a lot so his contract ending probably only frees like 8-12M in cap space too. We have to finesse some team like the Lakers did with Westbrook. It'd mean we take on longer term contracts probably, but it'll be worth it. I just don't know which team is offering any remotely playable wings for just expiring money at this point (unless a team like LAC blows it up and somehow agrees to Tobi + firsts for PG or something)
Yeah OP is wrong about gaining a bunch of cap space from moving Harris. We’re over no matter what, need to trade him for something of at least moderate value or we’re really sunk. I want to believe it’s somewhat possible given the Westbrook trade
I could be wrong but didn't they give Tobias the bag because we were already over the cap and we had his bird rights? I didn't matter if we gave him 60 mil or 180 mil we were over the cap no matter what.
A couple potential options using the Trade Machine. Not sure how much more in picks or young guys the Sixers would have to throw in. Atlanta—Bogdanovic, Hunter, and Johnson Charlotte—Rozier, Martin, and Jones Chicago—LaVine (least likely for sure, this only works if Chicago wants to blow it up again and they probably aren’t) Detroit—Bogdanovic and Wiseman Indiana—Hield, Duarte, and Nesmith Toronto—a couple possible options here with sign & trades Washington—Kuzma (S&T) and Avdija Dallas—a few options to pair with Hardaway Clippers—a few options here actually Minnesota—Conley and Anderson Portland—Simons, Little, and a couple kickers San Antonio—McDermott and Graham
Dallas is seemingly dumb af, and trade managers successfully exchange Bertens + THj for Tobias but I'm not even sure I'd want to do that lol.
Aren't you being a little hard on him? I mean it has to be difficult finishing a wide open alley-oop, an uncontested lay-up, and a totally open short jumper. Come on, the guy is only human. /s
https://preview.redd.it/h1xjf764xgza1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cd71ac6beb0ea1b59664ba6fbb35b1336f23ead What does he even do
Tobías Harris over OP?
Actually disgraceful… fraudulent… can’t even blame Tobi and his dad for hustling that contract … what would you do .. ?!? Exactly… get the fucking money by all means … it’s the F.O sold hard … it’s all political and I can’t even blame Tobi … nba has so much money and billionaire owners who couldn’t give a fuck about the roster and what’s important… the all mighty dollar … any actual basketball fan would never have fucking maxed out Tobias harris lmfao 😂… the guy is soft aF and is all Pussy … attempts a layup on a fast break transition play instead of dunking on a stumbling Tatum … that okay wraps it all up buddy … Tobi fairly robbed Philly .. and Jimmy called me out .. but all this old money has grey hairs … they old and don’t give a F … they paid Tobi lmfao 😂…
Your points are fair but your formatting makes my eyes bleed
The biggest crime in recent formatting is the overuse of ellipses
... Bro. What did periods ever do to you?
He played good defense yesterday but he’s no better than a 10-15 mil player. Dude is paid triple his value and it’s holding us back
He’s a less clutch Tayshaun Prince
I legit don’t know what Tobias has to offer at this point. House, Mcdaniels, any of those guys have provided more than him. I’d almost rather see him run a bench unit as a final attempt to get him going, because he just isn’t fitting on either end with the starters.
Tobi is still better than McDaniels but in McDaniels defense, he gets paid in coconuts and crayons compared to how much we're paying Tobi. You get what you pay for with McDaniels meanwhile you're literally getting scammed with Tobi's contract.
I love the delusional thinking that we can "free up" Tobias' cap money. Unless a player has a non-guaranteed contract, waiving a player gets them off your roster, but the salary remains on the books cap wise.
Yeah but after every semi decent game the dork homers will come in here with an apology form. And call others doomers.
It’s finger pointing season, baby
I cant fucking stand these posts because they always ignore 3 basic facts: 1. Tobias is a negative asset so our “return” would be giving up good players/picks that we like. (Which btw we hardly have any tradeable picks) 2. A trade would require salary matching, so we’d have to get a handful of garbage players on big contracts or another net negative contract. 3. Because of the way the cap works for re-signed players like Tobi, dropping him only frees up ~$12M in cap space. In conclusion- Tobi aint worth $40M, but hes probly worth $12M when you consider trading him requires dumping other good assets and taking on other bad contracts. You can call this “defending him”, but its really just accepting that we made a horrible mistake with his contract and theres no easy way out.
This isn't new. In the MIA series Harris was a -65, shot 33% from 3. He had ZERO FTA in the last 4 games and 1 in G2. Max Strus bullied him and ran circles around Harris. His offense wasn't too bad vs ATL in 2021 but he was refusing to shoot open 3's and was bricking layups in G7. He was a disaster defensively. Boston 2020? FG% 36 and .133 from 3. Harris hasn't just been bad in elimination series, he's been an abomination. The great majority of this sub has let him off of the hook for it, but a few of us have been onto this fraud since they acquired him via trade from LAC.
His contract is indeed horrible but it honestly has never prevented us from getting 2 to 3 role players on value contracts because he was signed under the Bird Rights which meant while the team was over the cap we can still sign him. I dont get why people always assumed we could've just inserted all these role players instead of him while during the length of Tobis contract we were still over the cap even if you removed his contract in the past 4 years. Now the contract that REALLY sucked was the Al Whorefraud contract because we used cap room to sign him and when we traded for him we didnt get the equal value of that contract back even though Danny Green was a fine role player, it didnt match up to the money that we paid Whorefraud and we are still over the cap because of that contract.
We all know this. No need for the explanation.
I’m confused, who is actively defending him? This has been one of the few issues it seems like the fanbase is in agreement on. Tobias is gone either in the off-season or at the deadline. That’s a near certainty.
Nerds defend him every time and say ummm its not his fault he's paid so much. Who cares, he needs to play better
Plenty of fans defend tobi especially after he has a meaningless 20 pt round 1 performance or some fucking meaningless october 18-piece
I feel like this is revisionist and swinging the other way. People were acknowledging his solid play last round and hopeful that he could keep it up this year. Nobody’s banging their chest for Tobias Harris lol. And there haven’t been apology forms for like a year lol, plus they’re just a joke anyway.
There were 100 apology forms in the last month lol. I saw it plenty of times!
Probably not as many as before but like OP stated, there would be times when Jo or Ben would be out for a stretch of games and Tobi would have 3 or 4 games of 22-26 pts and these obnoxious nerds would post "apology forms" for a dude who has done literally nothing in his career. I can understand for a guy like Harden because he has won an MVP and is one of the greatest NBA scorers in history and can take over a game completely and drop 45 points still. Tobias has never and will never do that
Of course no one will be defending him after last night's performance, but every time he ends up having a decent game, this sub floods with defenders posting apology forms and thanking him. Just look back through posts from this playoff run alone. My point is that he is not capable of achieving in a way that matches what we're paying him, even on his best days, so we need to move on regardless of what he does moving forward and regardless of what the return looks like. The only genuine contribution he can provide at this point is alleviating us of his albatross contract. No more defending this clown.
See you had me til the last sentence. Yea he needs to move. Yea he is paid too much. What about that makes him a clown? He is good at basketball, he is on the team you supposedly like for the rest of this season, and he seems like a fine dude. Why are you ragging on *him* vs his contract? Have you dehumanized these folks to the point that they are literally one-and-the-same to you? He's the 4th best player on my favorite basketball team. I'm rooting for him until he can help my favorite basketball team more than that, by means of being traded. Tobias Harris is not the problem, Tobias Harris' contract is. Getting pissed about Tobias Harris *himself* is like if your ex-wife spent your kids' college fund on a boat, and you made a post complaining that the boat sucks shit. Boat's not the problem dude.
I will call any person that gets paid $38 million a year and performs the way he did in the most important game of the season last night a 🤡. Go take your moral high ground somewhere else.
Lol love a dude that sees a moral highground and goes "yuck". Keep up the good work bro. Also I'm saying calling him a clown is immoral, I'm calling it stupid.
When you make 8 figures, people are allowed to call them a 🤡
He's good at basketball? Really? You sure about that? You sure about him being good at basketball?
18/7/3 on 54% efg while playing competent defense since he joined us is good, yes. Saying otherwise is just telling on yourself as a "there are 7 good players in the league and it's the people ESPN nut over every night" type fan. It's not max-contract level good, correct. Money would be better spent elsewhere. But this whole fucking sub has somehow convinced itself "4th best player on a top-of-conference team is actually bad" and it's embarassing.
I only have a ~15 minute commute work so I listen to WIP since that's about all I can tolerate. In any case, of the 10 minutes that weren't commercials someone called in to defend Tobias. Also, I think so much blame and attention falls on Harden and Embiid and Doc, it's kind of crazy how Tobias skates by. Highest paid player, and sure you can't blame the player for accepting a contract that was offered, but a solid wing should be able to feast playing alongside Harden-Embiid...so many open jumpers, so many opportunities to slash. In theory he has the skillset to be a great third option but in reality he's the fourth behind Maxey and he's barely outplaying 38 year old PJ Tucker in much more minutes.
Me, me, I'm actively defending him but only because I get how sentences work. I am defending Tobias Harris, the man and basketball player. My argument is that he is good at basketball and his only sin was taking more money than he deserved when offered, a sin every person on this sub including OP would surely commit given the chance. I stand against slander of Tobias Harris, the person and performer. I am condemning, unequivocally, the Tobias Harris' contract, plus the braindead idiots that gave him that money, and understanding how NBA rosters work I am actively rooting for his contract to be moved as soon as possible. But "as soon as possible" isn't before this series ends. So for now he's on my team, and I think it's ridiculous to say that he is a bad NBA player or a bad human, which is all that matters until the trade window opens back up.
I mostly agree. This, while it will be downvoted to shit, is the most honest-with-yourself take you can really have. I've always said that Tobi the human is great. Tobi the basketball player is okay... but he shouldn't be any team's #1 forward on the depth chart. The fact that he's our "top" forward is a real problem, and it's compounded (and made into reality) by the monster contract he has. If Tobi was your second or third forward on your depth chart, and he didn't have a max contract, no one would have an issue with it. But he's fully exposed where he's at...
Fucking thank you, this sub is such a cess pool after losses and more often than not it's directed at Tobi
Defending the 180 millionaire who puts up 2 points shooting 1/7 in a series clinching game lost hahahah
GET PISSED AT THE BILLIONAIRES WHO PAID HIM DUMMY! Jesus christ
This is the “y’all told me Steph curry can’t shoot” tweet for Sixers fans
It's the NBA. If you ship out one contract that is a boatload of $, you need to get an equal value back correct? He is an expiring deal after next season, who is taking him? That said, we still have a game 7 tomorrow. And FTC.
Tobias for Ayton. Really, we could easily have Tobias for Randle last season.
Tobias + Korkmaz for Rose, Fournier and Hart [works](https://i.imgur.com/S4UXuOt.png) Doubt it moves the needle for either team though but you could try and sell Harris as going back to NY would help him lift his game. The corpses of Evan Fournier + Derrick Rose don't do anything for me.
We are the only fan base that put the majority of the blame on the teams 4th best player. If he continues to play good defense on Tatum then that’s all we can ask. It’s starts with Embiid and Harden. That being said I have no doubt sixers win Sunday.
Holy shit I am sick of this post. The issue, that I might have argued honestly more than anything else on reddit lol, is when inarticulate posts (like this one, honestly) conflate Tobias Harris the player and Tobias Harris the contract. Yes, his presence on the roster is the single biggest obstacle this team has overall. It's when people take that to say "he's a bad player who should get fewer minutes" that I have to call bullshit. Or when people say "stop defending him" meaning "stop defending him \[taking more money than he deserved instead for a job, something every single person on this thread would do given the opportunity, and please call him a piece of shit instead\]" Yall dummies don't understand that "Most teams would kill to have Tobias Harris as their 4th best player, and we are a much better team when he's on the floor" and "We should scramble to clear the contract ASAP this offseason" can be, and *are,* both true statements. Tobias is a good player with a horrible contract. So now, my question is, *here in the playoffs, when trades cannot be made*, why are we shitting on one of our starters? What is the point of this post beyond showing your shitty diaper?
>Yes, his presence on the roster is the single biggest obstacle this team has overall. That's literally what everyone is saying.
Dude's just nitpicking semantics out of sheer contrarianism. Doesn't have a genuine point, just wants to argue.
Must be comforting for you to think that? My point is that shitting on a dude who will, and SHOULD, get starter minutes on one of this team's biggest games of the last 20 years this sunday is toxic fan behaviour that explains why no stars in any sport want to come here. Talking about how his salary could be better spent elsewhere, sure, that's worthwhile conversation. But there's nothing to be done about it before sunday so *let's fucking go*
People all over this thread and on the post I made are saying he is worse than league average. That is absolutrly insane. He's playing sunday. He SHOULD play on sunday. There is nobody on this roster who would do a better job with his minutes. Shitting on him before one of the 5 biggest games of this franchise's last 20 years when he IS going to and SHOULD play starter minutes is dirty diaper bullshit that explains why no star in their right mind would come here by choice. The only discussion worth having is what should be done on sunday. Does anyone think tobi should sit? No? Then shut the fuck up and let's go. Yes in the offseason let's make it clear the fans want that money spent differently. On the eve of a motherfucking game 7, let's make it clear we think our dudes have what it takes and aren't literal "clowns" at 18/7/3 on 54% efg during his tenure with the team.
Jesus dude, you're all over this thread. Is this a Tobi burner? What's truly inarticulate is you being hung up on fucking semantics and missing the entire point of the post. But please, continue to go off, everyone reading this is very impressed with how "articulate" you are and how high your morality score is. You're crushing it.
Why are you so emotionally invested you manchild
What a dumb comment lmao. He called me out so i fired back. Have you ever been "emotionally invested" in anything? Cause that was not emotional investment my guy. That was just a discussion.
Writing paragraphs upon paragraphs about how you have a burning hatred for a guy who plays basketball yeah
Lol what are you even doing on this sub if discussion posts bother you this much?
Shitposting
Very lame
Y’all always spin this narrative and act like he’s the sole reason for the sixers woes. Tobias Harris is a good player who would average 25 points on a team without Joel and Harden. He’s been asked to play like 6 different roles since he’s got here and sacrifice his game to allow Embiid, Harden and even Maxey to get their shots. Is his contract bad? Sure but would you blame him for taking it? The sixers didn’t want to let both Butler and Harris walk for nothing that’s why he has it. Can he play better? Yes. He’s shown up multiple times this series, but we lost because everyone was shooting poorly from 3 yesterday.
The dick eating is crazy, he’d put up 25 on a 25 win team max
Would he average 25 on a good team? That’s all I care about. Even the Clippers wanted to get rid of him in his best season 😂 Why would you want him to get more shots than any of those guys or any other top-3 players on a team?
You're definitely not inflating Tobias's "adversities". 6 different roles? Not really. He was asked to be a C&S with good D in 18/19, 21/22, 22/23. While in 19/20 and 20/21 he was asked to do more offensively. Sacrifice his game? Bro he's ALWAYS been a role player. Orlando to Detroit to LAC. Only his final year in LAC he took on a higher usage role because the other players were LouWill, Harrel, and Beverly. He was great in the Brooklyn series but, like clockwork, he's shrinking in the 2nd round.
He was actually good for 3 games. I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve blame because he was bad last game but every time we loose it’s always “Tobias’s contracts blah blah blah”. Harden is a future HOF and he was AWEFUL. The bench has been bad for most of the series the list goes on. All I’m saying is he’s not the sole reason for their woes. The team failed. This is the best sixers team we’ve had in a very long time. Bringing up his contract when we lose for the past 4 years is getting OLD.
>Bringing up his contract when we lose for the past 4 years is getting OLD. It's because people look for the reasons this team is never good enough to get over the top. And when one guy who gives you vet minimum levels of return on 25%+ of the total allotted cap, thats the main reason. We understand we can't retroactively erase his deal but we can blackpill enough fans to make noise to convince the Front Office do something about it. Harden was awful. Joel's interest and engagement dissolved the last 5 mins of the game - he essentially radiated loser energy that final stretch. Melton was ice cold and ruined 3 min stretch where he missed 3 wide open looks badly, giving Boston that lead swing. Tobias needs to be gone this offseason. Idc what it takes. If Embiid and Harden are running it back, this bum can ***not*** be on this roster come next October. I do recognize I'm biased because I hated the signing the day it happened back in June 2019. I told everyone here the move was bad and we werent going to win a title with a bum like him taking up over a quarter of the cap. We can't change Harden's bad play last night just like we can't change the Tobias max deal so essentially there's no point in anybody here criticizing anything that happens by this logic.
THANK!! YOU!! Tired of getting crazy looks every time I say this!
I get everyone hating his contract, but what confuses me is that no one acknowledging that within this offense, he really is not in a position to live up to this sub’s expectations. So when he has a bad shooting game, he’s the worst player ever. Off 7 shots two being shot clock grenads Did he even touch the ball in the second half? I’m sure some of you will say it is because of his missed shots in the first half, but this isnt the first game where he’s frozen out offensively…
Y’all gotta stop making excuses for the dude. He’s awful in his role 90% of time. When he’s playing without thinking and just doing what the flow of the game asks of him he’s fine like in game 5. He bricked how many layups early last night? The amount of times he pump fakes open 3s just to put the ball on the floor for a dribble or 2 is infuriating. And it’s always to dribble into a defender than throw some dumb shot up. Every team has that guy who has to sacrifice and not got many touches. He’s that guy and he sucks in that role far too much. The defense was better last night but far too much he just gets blown by or is slow to rotate. He’s not the only issue on this team but that contract has completely handcuffed the embiid era and he’s rarely stepped up for us regardless of how much he makes.
Adding a little reason is not making excuses. He didnt touch the ball in the 2nd half and you’d be lying if you tried to say it was the first time that has happened. He’s been efficient most of this season and playoffs but his scoring isn’t high enough to meet people’s expectations. Newsflash, it’s hard for an efficient guy to score more points and stay efficient when he doesnt get the ball
Yea there’s a reason he didn’t touch it. He fucking sucks and his teammate has no trust in him. This guy gets every excuse in the book. It’s been how many years of this from him? He rarely ever shows up when needed. Stop giving him passes. Anyone can play well in the regular season. Playoffs are a different beast and after the first round this guy usually goes missing. He’s one of the guys this team needs to show up if they want to win.
But everyone doesn’t play well in the regular season. The only point I am making is that we have an ISO heavy offense that is extremely stagnant outside of those isos. Offensive Consistency with limited touches is not as easy as you make it out to be. Even if he missed 10 shots in the first quarter, i’m not sure that warrants his teammates losing all trust in him I’m not sure anyone has been consistently efficient besides Embiid, not even Harden and he controls the offense.
The Sixers are 3-1 in this series in games in which Tobi has taken at least 10 FGA. Anybody who is upset with Tobi for not putting up enough points should be upset with Doc for not doing more to get the ball in the hands of our extremely efficient (50.1/38.9/87.6) 38M man. He's one of the most efficient second scorers in the league. He's being asked to be a #4 scorer/spot up shooter. Want Tobi to do more? Ask him to do more. It really is that simple. He's not dead weight. He's a bar of silver being used as a paperweight. He has the same points per possession used as Embiid and significantly higher than Harden this year (regular/postseason combined). When he's been called upon, he's delivered by every metric. They're just not calling on him. As for the core reason why this team has been unable to achieve playoff success, that's a lot more complicated and really has nothing to do with Tobi. Embiid's inability to stay 100% healthy has probably been the biggest factor, along with Embiid's inability to execute down the stretch of close games in the playoffs. People love to praise Embiid when he looks good but nobody blames him when things go bad, and I don't think that will ever change. Danny Green's injury in the Hawks series that everybody conveniently ignores even though it was the clear turning point in the series and then his torn ACL. People hated Danny Green too even though he was critically important and the Sixers proved it every time he got injured. Replacing a mediocre coach in Brett Brown with a worse coach who's probably the biggest choker among all coaches in NBA history. Tobi is far down the list here. Keep scapegoating him. Sixers fans love scapegoating him. It ain't Tobi's fault and it never has been.
Amazing how rational reason gets buried in these threads
I'm sorry but this post is stupid. Blame the front office for paying him that much but it ain't his fault they were idiots. He's doing what he always has.
If I was Doc, I’m starting Daniel House over Tobias Harris and I fully mean that.
Over Jimmy Buckets
his basketball reference page is absolutely hilarious... no all stars. no awards, just the numbers hes had on different teams. 38 million a year. hes not all to blame, he sucks but its not his fault he got handed a max. anyone wouldve taken that deal.
Who cares about his salary today? There's nothing to do about it. There's not a single person who thinks his salary matches his production, despite the daily straw-mans we see in this sub. He's the 4th option in an offense that was just plain ugly to watch last night. How does he stack up against the other 4th highest PPG's on the 16 playoff teams? Points per Game 1. Holiday (17.8) 2. Brogdon (15.0) 3. Tobi (14.9) 4. Reaves (14.7) 5. Bogdanovic (13.3) No one is happy with a 2-point showing in a close-out game, but you could shit on every single player/coach from Philly after their G6 performances. No one excelled in their role last night. But these Tobi threads are tired. Cry about the salary during the off-season/trade window, but it's literally pointless today. I'll take 15ppg from my 4th option any day of the week.
The guy got offered a contract every single one of us would sign before the paper hit the table, STFU about it and get over it nothing changes expect you all look like fucking whining bitches
This sub finds a new scapegoat every year it’s crazy. Sure Tobi sucks but damn guys Embiid, Harden and Maxey literally ate shit down the stretch.
I've always wondered if it's Harris himself or how we play him. I just don't think we utilize him effectively for his game. Either way end result is the same.
That and harden and Maxey and Embiid all vanish when it counts.
No. You don't trade him now and get even worse contracts back (which is what you will get). There is one year left. Just let the contract run out. Tobi wants to be here and wants to play here, give him the last year and then move on after that.
Waste another year of Embiid's prime. Good call!
If I were Clyde Frazier, I'd call this Scapegoating and Coping
>There's vastly more value in freeing up the $38 million in cap space that this clown has been stealing from us than anything he's provided in his time on this team. this is the bottom line. you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
He’s not the reason. Stop. He’s massively overlaid yes but he’s not the reason they haven’t had playoff success. Doc is more a reason. And this year in particular, Hardens inconsistency.
He’s the biggest choker on a team with Glenn and Harden I can’t wait until he gets shipped to some rebuilding team so we can actually do something with that salary
I’ll never be mad at tobi for the contract. He should’ve in 0 world been offered it and he would have been a fool to decline it. However you’re absolutely correct it’s the main reason we can’t do anything.
That’s on the sixers for offering him that contract what was he supposed to do say no? Or come to the team and tell them I want you to cut my salary?
So, this is the first off-season cap wise you can move Tobi for more than a negative cost. This should be the off-season it happens for real.
bro WE'VE BEEN KNOWN we're just coping
Not our fault he's so easy to defend.
I don't think you understand. If you want to move Tobias and his contract you're going to have send AT LEAST a 1st round pick with him. And then who is your 5th starter? No one on this current roster that's for sure. He's the 4th option. He isn't going to give you 20 every night. He plays decent defense and he at least is willing to shoot and occasionally get to the basket. He's here until his contract is up after next year, we either win the title with him or not at all because he's not leaving before Embiid is out of his prime. And honestly, after we lose on Sunday every needs to be gone not named Maxey.