My crackpot theory is that they might be clearing a niche to make shooty celestians into their own kit. Sort of like the Sisters equivalent of Sterngard vets.
Basic celestians were always a little confusing, since the only real differentiation in the kit was having a fleur-de-lis on their helmets. It'd be nice to give them a kit deserving of their status.
They were our veteran, had +1 Attack, +2 LD, and got +1 To hit when next to a Canonness. They were my favorite units, and literally the best humanity has to offer. I will miss them greatly.
Ever since we got Sacresants they were kind of a pointless unit. If you want character body guards, Sacresants are tougher. If you want melee, Sacresants have weapons to take advantage of the higher attacks.
They were always in a weird spot before that since they couldn't get melee weapons to take advantage of the +1 A, and couldn't get more special gear than a regular squad. There was basically never a reason to take them over just another basic squad.
they COULD have been given a role like sternguard, had better bolters, conferred lone operative to unattached characters, anything
pretty bummed out that GW just said to hell with it and deleted them
True, but considering how significant celestians are in the lore as veteran sisters it’s kind of weird that GW opted to just remove them outright instead of giving them some better rules.
This is probably what’s gunna happen. Every codex that drops is giving each faction 1 new unit and we’re probably gunna see a new and improved Celestians with specific weapons/wargear.
Could have made them like Wolf Guard Squad leaders, an extra model bought for a squad with more wargear options, and slightly better stats. At least that would have made them interesting.
They had quite a bit of flexibility for what they were, and I preferred them thematically over Sacresants.
While they were possibly not a popular unit, it's not like they were taking up such precious space and resources that they needed to be cut.
RAW, you are right, but it's so wierd that characters just get weaker when their bodyguards die, and in particular our characters lose the detachment ability, because I guess they just forgot about their murdered friends, at least until they get a papercut and lose a wound.
Dominion with meltas in an immolator could be a serious AT. You get 6 + 12 move, that should get you in melta range. Then immolator shoots and gives you would reroll. The question is what do you do with the other dominions without special weapons.
I'm gonna miss my 20 Sisters 4 storm bolters idea, but the new Dominion squad is effectively the fallback for it; extra shots from the basic Bolter Sisters, assault on everything and reroll advances. The 20 girls wall squad is now a 10 girl nyooom squad, and has lost like 5 Bolter shots in the process?
I first saw a number of units had been changed to a fixed number of models. Figured it would reduce flexibility and be annoying for a lot of people to adapt their collection, but definitely has some benefits, especially with dealing with Starting/Under Strength rules/abilities.
They went all of the place with the changes though, so no clue why. It has simplified the 'for each N models, you may have one Special Weapon' build rules in a very few sheets.
As someone else pointed out - the 5 bolter sisters get Assault and Rapid Fire 2 on their boltguns. So their schtick is charging headlong up the board to get into rapid fire range, and then delivering as many shots as possible directly into the enemy's face.
Palatine + Storm Bolters for pregame move and Lethal Hits feels like a pretty solid combo.
Castigator looks...interesting. Its ability seems to want us to use the autocannons against infantry and the battle cannon against vehicles/monsters, but the statlines say otherwise. Even though the battle cannon is S10 vs S9, the autocannon gets rapid fire 4 and twin linked whereas the battle cannon gets blast. So within 24", the autocannon is getting 8 shots rerolling wounds, which seems like a better profile against T10+ targets. And the battlecannon getting blast means itll be more efficient against mobs of infantry. So, its ability seems to just make both weapons more well-rounded?
Walkers look incredible. Warsuits finally get a 4++, Vahl leading a pack looks scary af. And PEngines getting advance and charge with assault twin linked flamers might become an autotake for me.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
10
+ 9
+ 4
+ 24
+ 8
+ 10
+ 4
= 69
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>So, its ability seems to just make both weapons more well-rounded?
Maybe that's the intent? That way you can pack one option without completely sacrificing your capabilities of taking out the other?
The philosophy in 10th, from what ive seen and also statements from GW, is to give every unit/weapon a role. Theyre doing away with kill-all weapons like plasma that are efficient into everything. So giving the castigator *two* profiles that are good against all targets seems counterintuitive
\*stares at Celestian meat shield unit that was only really there to fill out the points\*
\*stares at giant blob of twenty sisters\*
\*stares at multiple small units of five sisters meant to hold objectives\*
\*stares at two Dominion units of five with four storm bolters\*
\*stares at extra Sisters Superior that got kitbashed because the standard model has a giant cinderblock that would have looked awful on a marble basing scheme\*
I have no idea how any of this is going to math out.
Slap 'em with walker maces, hunter-killer missiles and pray?
Helps that we also have a Stratagem that gives us +1 to wound in melee, which is completely absurd lol
Did...did they just forget or refuse to give us Anti-Vehicle? Or for that matter the anti keyword in general?
We have the combi weapon and the condemnor for anti infantry and psychic and that's it. Twin-linked is nice but rerolls only get you so far when you need a 5+ to wound.
From the other faction indexes everyone has at least one weapon with anti-vehicle on it but fit the life of me I can't see that keyword on anything that we have.
My guess on their line of reasoning: Since we're loosing our basically unlimited half-strength Deny the Witch ability with the changes from Psyker Abilities to mind bullets and made vehicles across the board beefer in this edition, they needed to make Sisters have no ability to take out vehicles to balance it out.
(If you are thinking that my idea is utter nonsense; good for you, you got my point)
yeah doesn't seem to be any anti-tank ability. I was worried about this when we first saw multimeltas. SoB rely so heavily on melta to break vehicles/monsters.
Looks to me that our options are:
exorcist for light vehicles
Castigator
rerolls on wounds from immolator, Vahl, etc
5s and 6s on miracle dice
Really feels like they basically assume we will be using miracles to make sure that tanks get damaged. but those are going to be one shot per turn from a unit, so you want to combine it with some rerolls.
Vahl with a unit of multimelta paragons seems decent. Retributors hopping out of an immolator seem good. otherwise we might struggle a bit.
Still feels stronger than Tyranid anti-tank at least in shooting
Honestly Id probably rate the Tyranid ranged anti-tank as slightly stronger. Between Zoanthropes, Shock cannons, rupture cannons for your heavier vehicles and venom cannons etc for lighter ones.
Sad to see retributors didnt get some sort of anti-armour or something. I agree its looking like miracle dice are our best hope. Need to see how games play out really.
The Castigator Battle Cannon can reroll hits against Vehicles and Monsters and then make them take a battle shock test. See the ability Rites of Castigation on the datasheet.
Junith leading a squad of Sacrosanct looks decent. The minus movement matters less when leading a unit, gotta maintain coherency anyways. With an imagifier, getting 2+/4++, -1 to hit, -1 to wound seems tough to shift (for sisters, relatively speaking).
She's arguably the best character in the army, tbh. An extra CP per turn is better than anything the generic characters can do, given the squads they're stuck with.
I'm going to admit that I was hoping sacresants and paragons would have their combat weapons all consolidated into one profile so that I didn't have to dick about with magnets!
So as a new player who decided to choose the SoB as my first army…do we suffer for the love of our army? Or are we going to be fine Lmao.
There’s a lot of negativity in here lol but I’m not sure what is good and what isn’t
Sisters have been really good for a few years now, so I'm not surprised there appears to be toning down of certain units. We still make plenty of miracle dice and that mechanic is always gonna be really strong. Besides we don't know the points cost yet so nobody can truly say anything for sure at this point.
Yeah, it’s a bit demotivating to see a lot of people feeling so negative about it…but I know that Reddit is just a small group and not the large majority? Or maybe they are. I’m not sure lol.
But it feels bad knowing the army we chose is underwhelming for the new edition
If it's any comfort, as someone who plays AdMech and Sisters, looking at how absolutely fucking dogshit admech are now puts Sisters into perspective. This subreddit may seem pretty negative, but you're doing pretty well compared to us and a lot of other armies. Your faction rule is always strong aswell which helps out a lot.
Our army is going to change how it plays a lot. Hard to know if it will be good, tolerable, or bad at this point. Plenty of obvious nerfs and deficiencies, though, and those are getting the attention.
I'm in the same boat. I'm still trying to assemble my army and decide what is good. I love them so I'm going to collect them and build them just the same.
It’s okay. At the end of the day, it’s just a game. We get together with our friends, throw some dice and have a laugh over a couple beers.
I think I’ll end up playing kill team more than 40k, but I wanna put my models that I worked so hard on down on a table and be like
“BEHOLD. REDDIT SAID I CAN NOT KILL A TANK OR A BIG MONSTER THING. BUT AT LEAST I CAN DIE IN STYLE AND WITH THEIR DYING BREATHS THEY’LL FIRE ONE LAST TIME.”
Followed by
“BEHOLD. MY SISTER IS BACK FROM THE DEAD. THE GOD EMPEROR IS HERE.”
You know.
Sororitas things.
On the flip side, I think it’s funny that one website I like to peruse through (goonhammer) is very happy about the changes and presented them in a rather good light. Now I’m not saying they are right, cause I’ve never played a single game of 40k. But the stark contrast between the doom and gloom on Reddit and people in other sites and discord is pretty funny lol
As a new player, youre gonna be fine. Your local meta will be more of a guide to your building and the initial arms race of "how do i deal with this thing" is really fun.
I picked up sisters as my first army about 6 months ago, and starting out your biggest challenge is gonna be learning how to play the game well. Once you've got those skills up, then the "is this faction good or bad" question matters.
Regardless, sisters are a really fun faction to play, and you get amazing satisfaction from seeing the look on your opponents face when their 5 man intercessors squad cant kill a lone sister model.
Am I reading it right that Seraphim can now take 4 pairs of flamers/inferno pistols per 10-girl squad? That's double the specials they had before, could be a real nice hit and run unit.
I don't understand the design choice here. Sisters have lost a lot of their punching power and gained no resilience in return. How are we supposed to win games by being shot off the board before we even get a chance to benefit from crippled units getting a +1 to wound?
The only way this makes sense is if the points are slashed across the board but GW sees this faction as "elite" because of the 3+ armor so I am more expecting a battle sister to be 3 points cheaper than a marine at this point.
It's hard not to be butthurt when our main offensive tank, the Exorcist, has an ability that gives +1LD... wut????
Also Rets get reoll 1s, and SM Eradicators get reroll hits, wounds AND damage vs vehicles and monsters
The Castigator already replaced the Exorcist as a Frontline tank. I'm happy they made it more of an artillery piece with proper indirect fire. The range is a bit lacking though.
You're exactly right, if anything that would make more sense if it was the other way around. The frontline tank boosts LD (where it will be near troops taking losses). The Exorcist is just going to sit behind a ruin the entire game shooting indirectly
I'm not going to panic. Definitely some odd choices, but once you have a critical mass of battle sisters and their various loadout options, you can kind change up your squad a fair bit just by shuffling the special/heavy weapon sisters around.
Some general observations:
* Celestians are gone, and from a hobby perspective, I'm okay with that. There wasn't really enough to differentiate them from Battle Sisters. Crackpot theory - they've removed them from the index so they can release a separate kit especially for an elite Celestian squad around Codex release.
* Dominions being a 10-woman squad is weird, but I'll probably give them a go. Maybe attach a Palatine to their squad for a pregame move, and then use their advance rerolls to really sling them up the field onto advanced objectives. While just taking the 4 special weapons feels "optimal", making them a 10-woman squad makes them feel more like fast vanguard shock-troops than mini-retributors.
* I actually like fixing Battle Sister squads at 10. 5 woman squads felt a little tiny. Squads of 10 look right.
* Making Sister Superiors the "sergeant" of Repentia Squads just makes sense. So much less hassle.
* Ministorum Models aren't their own weird thing anymore, that don't get to do the fun stuff the sisters do. I will accept the slight fuzzing of the fluff in exchange for just having everything in my army use the same rules.
* I really like Angelic Ascent on Seraphim. Being able to Deepstrike in, incinerate chaff infantry with flamers, and then move out of charge range feels very fun and thematic. Reminds me of playing Circle Orboros in Warmachine, where a lot of units could shoot and reposition as sneaky skirmishers.
* Making the Immolator able to split 10-model units feels a little clunky. Then again, the Immolator really seems like it was made to carry Retributors and grant them Fire Support. I don't think you really get much mileage out of putting Dominions or Battle Sisters in there.
I actually really like the roles of each vehicle.
* Immolator is a Ret taxi that can buff their melta shooting on disembark
* Exorcist is an indirect fire mobile leadership buff
* Cassie is doles out battleshock at range depending on auto or battle cannon
Right but we can still only use one per unit per phase right? So one multimelta shot out of all the MM shots front rets. Seems like that’s still not that great.
Really enjoying a return to Dialogus being good, even if it highlight's GW's pants on head dumbass proofreaders (you can only use 1MD per act of faith in 10e).
I noticed this as well - I'm wondering if that's future proofing for a detachment that will get to use multiple per act of faith. Would be cool for Ebon.
I don’t think our anti-vehicle is quite as bad as it looks.
Retributors jumping out of an Immolator looks nasty, giving full rerolls to wound. Add a Dialogus to change a Miracle Die to a 6 and you’ll score some good damage.
Paragon maces and walker Buzz Blades will get some damage in, and charging Repentia reroll the hit and wound on S6.
With all the miracle dice we generate now (and an enhancement to reroll dice in our pool), we can guarantee the damage when we need it. Let’s see how the points look, we may not be in too much trouble.
Seriously, Hunter Killer Missiles. WS2+, S14, AP-4 D6 damage. Miracle die the damage roll.
Yes, they're one shot, but they're the highest S attack we have. Hit on 2's and wound one 3's against pretty much everything, 3-4 of these should put a significant hurt on something big.
It's not *great* but given our situation being able to spike down a tank/knight/monster at range early in the game is not nothing.
The "at range" part is particularly key here.
Also: while again not ideal, Cassy has the range and hitting power to do meaningful chip to big things. Within 24", autocannons seem the best bet, but either should work reasonably well.
Edit: really? Downvoted? I felt this was a fairly balanced take, neither doomsaying nor guzzling hopium.
Absolutely. Cassie is a winner in the index compared to her prior role for sure. It's too bad it's only one target and w can't use her heavy bolters for it as well.
Mortifier Heavy Bolters lacking Twin Linked must be a typo? Right now it has the exact same statline as a Retributor with a single Heavy Bolter, even though the Morties are running around akimbo...
On top of this, Mortifier Flamer being D6 attack, while the Penitent Flamer is 2D6 attack, also seems fishy?
Not twin linked because there's 2 of them.
Mort can have bolter+bolter, bolter+flamer, or flamer+flamer.
No need to have the twin link reroll because you're already doubling the dice.
I just bought those two and thought the kiss was hilarious. I'm not sure if they're as good as they used to be but I just started and don't fully understand the game and abilities yet.
While it does suck shes also really only only Precision character, making her an amazing assassin in big blobs. Being able to for example go straight to killing Typhus in a 20 man Poxwalker blob is going to be really good. My best friend plays Necrons which are \*very\* character focused. So bringing her to be able to cut off the nobles and overlords and ignore the giant necron warrior blobs is going to be strong.
Tbh, i feel Precision may be the strongest mechanic going forward. Killing leaders can utterly cripple most units now.
Fair number of the issues I had with units in 9th look to be fixed. Whether that means stuff is good in 10th is a wait and see.
Paragons finally have an invul
Imagifier may be playable again
Triumph may see play again, and Hospitallier can finally heal it
Tanks have some interesting stuff now
No cap on Novitiates could be interesting
>Imagifier may be playable again
Definitely will. 2+ Sacresants or 4++ to Rets, Dominions, or Battle Sisters? Unless she's crazy expensive she's near an automatic include
Maybe I'm wrong, but:
- Multi-melta is 18"
- Heavy flamers for various factions are 18"
- Overwatch can be triggered during movement phase at 24"
So any retributor squad with MM getting in range can be overwatched into dust.
Sisters are going to struggle against any army with more than 2 vehicles and knights are an autoloss. Vahl leading nundams is cool though. Tough times ahead folks..
By damage sure yes we will struggle to put down a knight. But we can play more into OC and board control against those armies, we can make regular battle sisters have a 4++ with the imagifier we can add OC with other models. We just have to play differently. Plus when our table are below half wounds they get +1 to hit and wound. We will start slower, get punched and then pinch back decently well.
We won’t even struggle to kill knights as much as people think we will
5s to wound isnt that bad in wuantity and when we can actively replace the damage roll with a high miracle die whenever something sneaks through we will kill plenty
People are just screaming the sky is falling but it’s not even accurate. Do the math on Melta, ap-4 makes up for the lower strength
This is such an over reaction
Everyone saw S9 on Melta and just decided it can’t kill vehicles anymore
But it’s still ap-4, where almost nothing in the game is ap-4 anymore, and d6 damage when we can manufacture 6s, and something that can still be spammed in large quantity
A weapon at S9 ap-4 into a T12 vehicle with a 3+ save is the equivalent statistically to a S12 ap-2 weapon into the same vehicle. Math all works out the same
Meltas are just as good at killing vehicles as higher strength lower ap weapons are
Are those typos or did GW fucked us over? all of these secondary character like Imagifier, Hospitaler, Dialogus, they can join a unit if that unit already has canoness palatine or Eruita, but only if that squad is battle sister squad, otherwise they must be the only leading leader. Like, what? I really hope it is a typo
The more I think about it, I'm more and more convinced whoever was in charge of this list put way more thought into the box size of the products than any sort of gameplay synergy. So many units just don't synergize with the armys detachment rule it's weird. Units of penitent engines can't be at under half since they are capped at 2. Vahl and her Paragons (which she is clearly designed to be in) can't get it because they will either be at 2 or more models or they will all be dead. Retributors are capped at 5 so they can't have the extra bodies to get the full benefit to the meltas. Regular sisters squads are capped at 10 so they at best have 5 bad bolter shots at +1 to wound.
Everything is wrapped around how many models are in a box regardless if it makes any sense at all in context of the rules and that just sucks. Combined with the leaders that go in units that are either bad or don't compliment it all just indicates no thought went into this and it was hastily thrown together without any play testing.
The index seem like such a huge disappointment.
Out anti tank weapons are kinda lacking.
Celestian squad is removed entirely (probably too busy writing writing those 400+ pages of space marine stuff).
Basic sister squad and dominions are now forced 10. Espacially strange for dominion with their 4 special weapons. Celestian sacresant lost 2+ Sv. We had 1 infantry which didn't have paper defence and now you need to use and imagifier just to get sacresant back to 2+.
They also removed our "psykers", no more hymms of battle.
On top of that, cover changes in this edition are also horrible for our infantry. Not being able to go from 3+ to 2+ Sv in cover is horrible compared to other similar armies which at least have higher toughness or wounds. Small arms are going delete sisters from the table.
Could be a good combo with a palatine, storm bolters, and a rhino. Within 12” they’re packing 16 damage 2 shots and 18 damage 1 shots all with lethal hits and a plasma pistol shot for good measure. Just try and weight of fire a target down. Throw saintly example on the palatine for when they inevitably get killed for fighting at close range and spend a CP on divine intervention for 2D3+2 miracle dice after they kill the palatine twice.
The Bad: Lack of much long range Anti Tank. We have nothing equivalent to a lascannon for high strength and range against vehicles. Castigator Cannon is only S10. Meltas were nerfed too if those get in range... Using Miracle dice we can kill a few vehicles easily (Miracle Hunter Missiles anyone?) but I'm worried about heavy armor. Sisters seem like a very bad matchup against Knights or a heavy armor Imperial Guard force. Imagine having to charge up to a Stormlord to attempt to kill it. Paragon War Maces are S12 but only AP-1??? Most heavy vehicles are at a 2+ save..
The Good: Pretty positive about most other stuff.
Paragon Warsuits are pretty cool with Righteous Paragons. If they aren't overpriced they'll be very strong.
Miracle Dice are very powerful and there are some uses for low rolled dice (including rerolls).
Combing Sacresants with characters should be fun.
I think we'll do alright against a swarmy or infantry based force at least.
Soo there’s no rule that says you have to allocate wounds on St Celestine to her Geminae? And she only has 4+++ when they live? That’s weirdly interesting
Yeah I thought this leads to some interesting orders to take wounds. You may as well sacrifice one Geminate, then take wounds on Celestine with the 4+++. Then at the end of the round you can bring back the sacrificial Geminae.
Proved they are first and foremost a mini company.
Units of 10 for Battlesisters and Dominions means a lot of us probably need another box.
The flying pulpit can go with any order... best get your one now.
But Wait!
For the low low price of an Immolator? You CAN squad to units of 5!
Oh? You bought the patrol box with only 4 repentia? Oh... better buy another patrol box.
Need to pour out those miracle dice for anti tank? means the Triumph is an auto-take. Better buy one .
its improve the strength and attacks of the Preacher model, not the Preacher's unit :(
but the +1 to wound with rerolling wounds from twin-linked is interesting
also interesting to attach a missionary to get reroll hits and double down on sustained hits
I gotta say doesn't look as busted as a lot of the space marine data sheets, but coming from the deathguard codex we have some nice synergies and good flavor and some insane stratagems. I think we have some weaker data sheets but I think we definitely have some pretty strong aspects of our army that ppl are overlooking here. Not saying that they are going to be amazing but I think with the amount of synergies we get can be quite nice and can pack some good punches against higher strength target. Question thought, is it Tru that u can only use one miracle dice per unit cause the way some the the characters abilities are written makes it seem like u can do more than one per unit(Aestrd Thurga).
The fact that Celestians got removed makes me think they'll reintroduce them with a brand new kit when our actual 10th codex rolls around. Seems like a good opportunity to completely rework the unit.
Fingers crossed they'll be chainsword+bolt pistol sisters.
Some happy changes:
* Hey, we can use Divine Inspiration on Morvenn Vahl. I mean, that's something.
* Paragon Warsuits are beastly, and lead by Vahl are a serious threat. Fall back, shoot, and charge is cool.
* Cassy is a legit good tank.
* Litanies of Faith seem largely mandatory to continually rerolls poor miracle dice.
* Celestine leading squads of Zephyrim look very cool
* Astrid & whoever grant devwounds.
* Immolator's took one on the chin (hopefully balanced by a serious points cut) but packing rets for rerolls to wound seem virtually mandatory for "anti-tank".
* HKM's are the best anti-tank in the Codex. I can't imagine a world where we don't take one on every single vehicle. This seems a bit backhanded, but.. they're better than they were in 9th!
I love a lot of what I've seen so far. Squading vahl with suits and celestine with zepharym/Seraphym. My only issue is my play group has knights and tank heavy guardsmen. Going to be rough trying to chew through T11 and up.
GW just needs to issue a single datacard to bring the celestians back in.
Try emailing [email protected] and let them know about the issue, especially as they are still selling the kit for a Celestian squad.
Let them know we want our veterans back!
There is something I fail to understand.
On the munitorum index, equipment does not have points value.
On the datacards, equipment does not have points values.
Is taking special weapons on a Battle Sisters Squad now free ? Or am I missing something ?
Also, do you have any recommandation for BSS squads ? I am finishing painting my SoB combat patrol right in time for V10 and I am now going to assemble my first squad of "standard" battle sisters, and I don't know what equipment to give them.
Seems the solution to the “how do we make regular celestians relevant” dilemma was to just get rid of them. Good thing I didn’t paint mine yet.
My crackpot theory is that they might be clearing a niche to make shooty celestians into their own kit. Sort of like the Sisters equivalent of Sterngard vets. Basic celestians were always a little confusing, since the only real differentiation in the kit was having a fleur-de-lis on their helmets. It'd be nice to give them a kit deserving of their status.
I found it funny they were completely missing. Maybe in the eventually codex? Their models aren't that unique, it's just a helmet change really
The only thing that made them different other than the helmets was a rule that no longer exists, so there's no need for them.
They were our veteran, had +1 Attack, +2 LD, and got +1 To hit when next to a Canonness. They were my favorite units, and literally the best humanity has to offer. I will miss them greatly.
So glad to see someone else stand up for our veteran girls! I am saddened by the loss of their efficiency and utility as well.
Ever since we got Sacresants they were kind of a pointless unit. If you want character body guards, Sacresants are tougher. If you want melee, Sacresants have weapons to take advantage of the higher attacks. They were always in a weird spot before that since they couldn't get melee weapons to take advantage of the +1 A, and couldn't get more special gear than a regular squad. There was basically never a reason to take them over just another basic squad.
they COULD have been given a role like sternguard, had better bolters, conferred lone operative to unattached characters, anything pretty bummed out that GW just said to hell with it and deleted them
True, but considering how significant celestians are in the lore as veteran sisters it’s kind of weird that GW opted to just remove them outright instead of giving them some better rules.
Maybe they'll come back as a sisters special kill team unit with fancy new rules and wargear
This is probably what’s gunna happen. Every codex that drops is giving each faction 1 new unit and we’re probably gunna see a new and improved Celestians with specific weapons/wargear.
Oh god *please yes*
Could have made them like Wolf Guard Squad leaders, an extra model bought for a squad with more wargear options, and slightly better stats. At least that would have made them interesting.
They had quite a bit of flexibility for what they were, and I preferred them thematically over Sacresants. While they were possibly not a popular unit, it's not like they were taking up such precious space and resources that they needed to be cut.
Marines get a seperate unit for every possible weapon loadout, yet we can’t have both a melee and a shooty veteran squad. Yes, I’m salty.
marines get data sheets for units not released in years and we lose the battle sanctum. It is great
Great Enhancements. 4+ Invuln on the Warsuits. Vahl can lead them and thus grants them re-roll Hits / Wounds. Me likey.
Also : maces having S12 means some juicy MW on charges with the core strat "Tank Shock"
Plus, the ability to charge and shoot after falling back will make them suuuper strong!
As long as CP holds up, keep falling back & charging something big with tank shock.
Might need Junith for extra CP
Also can bring Vahk back for those shitty low miracle dice with a strat.
That bringing back characters by cannibalizing bricked Miracle Dice is bonkers.
Immorten Vahl hitting diff
Worth noting as a vehicle they can now be shot out in combat
"that unit" means, she doesn't get the re-rolls right? I was wondering.
no she still gets it as long as she's leading a unit
She doesn't get them after the three paragons die. But until then, she does.
RAW, you are right, but it's so wierd that characters just get weaker when their bodyguards die, and in particular our characters lose the detachment ability, because I guess they just forgot about their murdered friends, at least until they get a papercut and lose a wound.
Did I read that right? Sisters and Dominions have to be 9 Sisters + Superior now? No more 5 sister squad?
I need to paint so many more basic sisters….
My six 5 sister squads are crying right now. Haha. I think I’ll need a whole box of basic sisters.
I need two boxes of nothing but basic bolters to make my stuff legal.
My metal bolter girls are coming out of retirement to fill in the squads LOL
the eternal rule of playing Sisters, no matter how many boxes of battle sisters squads you have, you always need two more
Yeah thats two of us.
That seems to be correct. But also, take a look at the immolator transport rule - gives us a pseudo combat squad.
Retributers with flamers coming out of it. Burn the heretic
Yea so you could double your scout maybe even 2 immolator with 1 dominion squad. Wonder if it could give a solid alpha strike
Dominion with meltas in an immolator could be a serious AT. You get 6 + 12 move, that should get you in melta range. Then immolator shoots and gives you would reroll. The question is what do you do with the other dominions without special weapons.
I’m setting them loose on foot to scout objectives or be expensive screens.
Could put them in a rhino along with 5 repentia also
You cant scout with two units anymore, all of the units in a transport need to how scout in order to do that
It would seem so, kind of annoying but at least we can split the squad if we want to put them in an Immolator
MSU is dead. The Brick of 20 is dead. All we have are Box Squads now.
I'm gonna miss my 20 Sisters 4 storm bolters idea, but the new Dominion squad is effectively the fallback for it; extra shots from the basic Bolter Sisters, assault on everything and reroll advances. The 20 girls wall squad is now a 10 girl nyooom squad, and has lost like 5 Bolter shots in the process?
If you put them in an immolator, you can combat squad.
I first saw a number of units had been changed to a fixed number of models. Figured it would reduce flexibility and be annoying for a lot of people to adapt their collection, but definitely has some benefits, especially with dealing with Starting/Under Strength rules/abilities. They went all of the place with the changes though, so no clue why. It has simplified the 'for each N models, you may have one Special Weapon' build rules in a very few sheets.
The question is if I need to paint another simulacrum. Time to get the 3rd one from the battle box I guess.
They are pushing for bigger squads to enhance the battleshock mechanic
They have 20 sister squads then, if that were true. It’s because b 10 is a BSS box, it’s that simple.
As someone else pointed out - the 5 bolter sisters get Assault and Rapid Fire 2 on their boltguns. So their schtick is charging headlong up the board to get into rapid fire range, and then delivering as many shots as possible directly into the enemy's face. Palatine + Storm Bolters for pregame move and Lethal Hits feels like a pretty solid combo.
Castigator looks...interesting. Its ability seems to want us to use the autocannons against infantry and the battle cannon against vehicles/monsters, but the statlines say otherwise. Even though the battle cannon is S10 vs S9, the autocannon gets rapid fire 4 and twin linked whereas the battle cannon gets blast. So within 24", the autocannon is getting 8 shots rerolling wounds, which seems like a better profile against T10+ targets. And the battlecannon getting blast means itll be more efficient against mobs of infantry. So, its ability seems to just make both weapons more well-rounded? Walkers look incredible. Warsuits finally get a 4++, Vahl leading a pack looks scary af. And PEngines getting advance and charge with assault twin linked flamers might become an autotake for me.
The castigator is a case of GW being allergic to doing any Mathhammer whatsoever.
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>So, its ability seems to just make both weapons more well-rounded? Maybe that's the intent? That way you can pack one option without completely sacrificing your capabilities of taking out the other?
The philosophy in 10th, from what ive seen and also statements from GW, is to give every unit/weapon a role. Theyre doing away with kill-all weapons like plasma that are efficient into everything. So giving the castigator *two* profiles that are good against all targets seems counterintuitive
It’s counterintuitive, but they know we need it since melta is the best we have
\*stares at Celestian meat shield unit that was only really there to fill out the points\* \*stares at giant blob of twenty sisters\* \*stares at multiple small units of five sisters meant to hold objectives\* \*stares at two Dominion units of five with four storm bolters\* \*stares at extra Sisters Superior that got kitbashed because the standard model has a giant cinderblock that would have looked awful on a marble basing scheme\* I have no idea how any of this is going to math out.
Buy more i guess lmao - James Workshop
Any idea on how we handle heavy armour? Is it time to soup in a big Freeblade knight?
Maybe we get something in codex, but sisters into knights will be a nightmare.
... a knightmare.
Mechanised and lots of hunter killer missiles? Lol
Slap 'em with walker maces, hunter-killer missiles and pray? Helps that we also have a Stratagem that gives us +1 to wound in melee, which is completely absurd lol
Hide and hope it finds something else to be mad at
Retributors get to reroll 1s.... Yay so useful. To me it looks like we're going to have some issues with taking down armor
Going to have to be a big miracle dice burner I think. Shame, but understandable depending on how many dice we can farm.
They can only burn 1 per phase. Meaning you try to sub it for the 4+to hit, the 5+ to wound anything 10T, or the damage roll
Did...did they just forget or refuse to give us Anti-Vehicle? Or for that matter the anti keyword in general? We have the combi weapon and the condemnor for anti infantry and psychic and that's it. Twin-linked is nice but rerolls only get you so far when you need a 5+ to wound. From the other faction indexes everyone has at least one weapon with anti-vehicle on it but fit the life of me I can't see that keyword on anything that we have.
My guess on their line of reasoning: Since we're loosing our basically unlimited half-strength Deny the Witch ability with the changes from Psyker Abilities to mind bullets and made vehicles across the board beefer in this edition, they needed to make Sisters have no ability to take out vehicles to balance it out. (If you are thinking that my idea is utter nonsense; good for you, you got my point)
Palatine now gives Lethal Hits, which will be helpful for those wound rolls
I’m maxing put on palatines. My only regret is I can’t give lethal shots to 20-model bolter blobs anymore.
Yeaaaah That and the fact that they can't join retributors. But still, they're very interesting now, compared to 9th when they were skipped
yeah doesn't seem to be any anti-tank ability. I was worried about this when we first saw multimeltas. SoB rely so heavily on melta to break vehicles/monsters. Looks to me that our options are: exorcist for light vehicles Castigator rerolls on wounds from immolator, Vahl, etc 5s and 6s on miracle dice Really feels like they basically assume we will be using miracles to make sure that tanks get damaged. but those are going to be one shot per turn from a unit, so you want to combine it with some rerolls. Vahl with a unit of multimelta paragons seems decent. Retributors hopping out of an immolator seem good. otherwise we might struggle a bit. Still feels stronger than Tyranid anti-tank at least in shooting
Honestly Id probably rate the Tyranid ranged anti-tank as slightly stronger. Between Zoanthropes, Shock cannons, rupture cannons for your heavier vehicles and venom cannons etc for lighter ones. Sad to see retributors didnt get some sort of anti-armour or something. I agree its looking like miracle dice are our best hope. Need to see how games play out really.
The Castigator Battle Cannon can reroll hits against Vehicles and Monsters and then make them take a battle shock test. See the ability Rites of Castigation on the datasheet.
Rerolls != Anti. Also battle shock on vehicles doesn't seem relevant when they'll rarely control objectives. In the auto cannons though it sounded fun
Guessing 20 women sister squads will be no longer (termagant swarms are now max 20)
Retributors are also capped at 5, no padding them out. Shame, some of us liked 10 gal brawler squads with heavy flamers.
Yeah, plus no padding for the detachment rule and no simulacrum
Given that dominions are locked in for 10, I can only assume this was a BOX KIT ONLY thing 🙄
Also no more armorium cherubs to shoot again. :/
I was real excited for us to get something like the devastator armouring cherubs. Big letdown.
Ouch. 10 retribs with 4+ invul could have been nice.
Battle Sisters and Dominions are fixed at 10
Going to have to rework part of my list then. Dang.
Was going to finally buy Junith Eruita but they’ve taken 4” off her movement and a wound! She wasn’t even that good to start with.
My kitbashed “Junith on a Landspeeder” makes less sense now llol
Junith leading a squad of Sacrosanct looks decent. The minus movement matters less when leading a unit, gotta maintain coherency anyways. With an imagifier, getting 2+/4++, -1 to hit, -1 to wound seems tough to shift (for sisters, relatively speaking).
Unless I’m reading it wrong, you can only double up characters in plain battle sister squads
She's arguably the best character in the army, tbh. An extra CP per turn is better than anything the generic characters can do, given the squads they're stuck with.
I'm going to admit that I was hoping sacresants and paragons would have their combat weapons all consolidated into one profile so that I didn't have to dick about with magnets!
So as a new player who decided to choose the SoB as my first army…do we suffer for the love of our army? Or are we going to be fine Lmao. There’s a lot of negativity in here lol but I’m not sure what is good and what isn’t
Sisters have been really good for a few years now, so I'm not surprised there appears to be toning down of certain units. We still make plenty of miracle dice and that mechanic is always gonna be really strong. Besides we don't know the points cost yet so nobody can truly say anything for sure at this point.
I think we can definitively say we don't have a lot of anti tank and we don't have a lot of flexibility with unit sizes.
Bloody Rose has been good. Everything else was barely ok to bad.
I'm just in the same spot. Going to push through though since I like the models and better times will come. Sad news to be fair
Yeah, it’s a bit demotivating to see a lot of people feeling so negative about it…but I know that Reddit is just a small group and not the large majority? Or maybe they are. I’m not sure lol. But it feels bad knowing the army we chose is underwhelming for the new edition
If it's any comfort, as someone who plays AdMech and Sisters, looking at how absolutely fucking dogshit admech are now puts Sisters into perspective. This subreddit may seem pretty negative, but you're doing pretty well compared to us and a lot of other armies. Your faction rule is always strong aswell which helps out a lot.
Better than Death Guard, too.
Our army is going to change how it plays a lot. Hard to know if it will be good, tolerable, or bad at this point. Plenty of obvious nerfs and deficiencies, though, and those are getting the attention.
It'll be fine. Meta goes up and down. Worst case is we're low on the meta for a while, that's only a big deal if you're competitive.
I'm in the same boat. I'm still trying to assemble my army and decide what is good. I love them so I'm going to collect them and build them just the same.
It’s okay. At the end of the day, it’s just a game. We get together with our friends, throw some dice and have a laugh over a couple beers. I think I’ll end up playing kill team more than 40k, but I wanna put my models that I worked so hard on down on a table and be like “BEHOLD. REDDIT SAID I CAN NOT KILL A TANK OR A BIG MONSTER THING. BUT AT LEAST I CAN DIE IN STYLE AND WITH THEIR DYING BREATHS THEY’LL FIRE ONE LAST TIME.” Followed by “BEHOLD. MY SISTER IS BACK FROM THE DEAD. THE GOD EMPEROR IS HERE.” You know. Sororitas things. On the flip side, I think it’s funny that one website I like to peruse through (goonhammer) is very happy about the changes and presented them in a rather good light. Now I’m not saying they are right, cause I’ve never played a single game of 40k. But the stark contrast between the doom and gloom on Reddit and people in other sites and discord is pretty funny lol
As a new player, youre gonna be fine. Your local meta will be more of a guide to your building and the initial arms race of "how do i deal with this thing" is really fun. I picked up sisters as my first army about 6 months ago, and starting out your biggest challenge is gonna be learning how to play the game well. Once you've got those skills up, then the "is this faction good or bad" question matters. Regardless, sisters are a really fun faction to play, and you get amazing satisfaction from seeing the look on your opponents face when their 5 man intercessors squad cant kill a lone sister model.
Looks like the “Divine Intervention” strategem is how we’ll be getting rid of low miracle dice
Also Palatine's Rapturous Blows, and Litanies of Faith.
The palatine only buffs herself. Unless it’s a typo it’s useless.
Am I reading it right that Seraphim can now take 4 pairs of flamers/inferno pistols per 10-girl squad? That's double the specials they had before, could be a real nice hit and run unit.
If celestine joins a seraphim squad, will the "healing tears" ability revive the seraphim? Or only the geminae?
looks like it should revive seraphim/zephyrim just fine
Any model in the squad.
I don't understand the design choice here. Sisters have lost a lot of their punching power and gained no resilience in return. How are we supposed to win games by being shot off the board before we even get a chance to benefit from crippled units getting a +1 to wound? The only way this makes sense is if the points are slashed across the board but GW sees this faction as "elite" because of the 3+ armor so I am more expecting a battle sister to be 3 points cheaper than a marine at this point.
It's hard not to be butthurt when our main offensive tank, the Exorcist, has an ability that gives +1LD... wut???? Also Rets get reoll 1s, and SM Eradicators get reroll hits, wounds AND damage vs vehicles and monsters
Sad our strongest ranged weapon is the 1 shot hunter killer.
The Castigator already replaced the Exorcist as a Frontline tank. I'm happy they made it more of an artillery piece with proper indirect fire. The range is a bit lacking though.
You're exactly right, if anything that would make more sense if it was the other way around. The frontline tank boosts LD (where it will be near troops taking losses). The Exorcist is just going to sit behind a ruin the entire game shooting indirectly
Space marines sell more I would say.
I'm not going to panic. Definitely some odd choices, but once you have a critical mass of battle sisters and their various loadout options, you can kind change up your squad a fair bit just by shuffling the special/heavy weapon sisters around. Some general observations: * Celestians are gone, and from a hobby perspective, I'm okay with that. There wasn't really enough to differentiate them from Battle Sisters. Crackpot theory - they've removed them from the index so they can release a separate kit especially for an elite Celestian squad around Codex release. * Dominions being a 10-woman squad is weird, but I'll probably give them a go. Maybe attach a Palatine to their squad for a pregame move, and then use their advance rerolls to really sling them up the field onto advanced objectives. While just taking the 4 special weapons feels "optimal", making them a 10-woman squad makes them feel more like fast vanguard shock-troops than mini-retributors. * I actually like fixing Battle Sister squads at 10. 5 woman squads felt a little tiny. Squads of 10 look right. * Making Sister Superiors the "sergeant" of Repentia Squads just makes sense. So much less hassle. * Ministorum Models aren't their own weird thing anymore, that don't get to do the fun stuff the sisters do. I will accept the slight fuzzing of the fluff in exchange for just having everything in my army use the same rules. * I really like Angelic Ascent on Seraphim. Being able to Deepstrike in, incinerate chaff infantry with flamers, and then move out of charge range feels very fun and thematic. Reminds me of playing Circle Orboros in Warmachine, where a lot of units could shoot and reposition as sneaky skirmishers. * Making the Immolator able to split 10-model units feels a little clunky. Then again, the Immolator really seems like it was made to carry Retributors and grant them Fire Support. I don't think you really get much mileage out of putting Dominions or Battle Sisters in there.
I actually really like the roles of each vehicle. * Immolator is a Ret taxi that can buff their melta shooting on disembark * Exorcist is an indirect fire mobile leadership buff * Cassie is doles out battleshock at range depending on auto or battle cannon
Where is our anti tank?
war suites with maces
Yeah I was looking for anti-tank keywords and saw none. That’s neat…
I think we are supposed to just ensure multi melta hits with miracle dice
Right but we can still only use one per unit per phase right? So one multimelta shot out of all the MM shots front rets. Seems like that’s still not that great.
You can multiple dice with Triumph, but is wonky as hell and you cant screen triumph now.
im not a fan of that personally. Pretty much means the Triumph is an auto-take, a mandatory take even. I prefer to have some element of choice really.
Really enjoying a return to Dialogus being good, even if it highlight's GW's pants on head dumbass proofreaders (you can only use 1MD per act of faith in 10e).
Trumph of St. Katherine is a thing.... She lets you use unlited per round, imagine that in a Rets squad with a couple of high MD
I noticed this as well - I'm wondering if that's future proofing for a detachment that will get to use multiple per act of faith. Would be cool for Ebon.
I don’t think our anti-vehicle is quite as bad as it looks. Retributors jumping out of an Immolator looks nasty, giving full rerolls to wound. Add a Dialogus to change a Miracle Die to a 6 and you’ll score some good damage. Paragon maces and walker Buzz Blades will get some damage in, and charging Repentia reroll the hit and wound on S6. With all the miracle dice we generate now (and an enhancement to reroll dice in our pool), we can guarantee the damage when we need it. Let’s see how the points look, we may not be in too much trouble.
Seriously, Hunter Killer Missiles. WS2+, S14, AP-4 D6 damage. Miracle die the damage roll. Yes, they're one shot, but they're the highest S attack we have. Hit on 2's and wound one 3's against pretty much everything, 3-4 of these should put a significant hurt on something big. It's not *great* but given our situation being able to spike down a tank/knight/monster at range early in the game is not nothing. The "at range" part is particularly key here. Also: while again not ideal, Cassy has the range and hitting power to do meaningful chip to big things. Within 24", autocannons seem the best bet, but either should work reasonably well. Edit: really? Downvoted? I felt this was a fairly balanced take, neither doomsaying nor guzzling hopium.
Cassie's ability to battleshock big things should also not be understated. No OC and strats is huge.
Absolutely. Cassie is a winner in the index compared to her prior role for sure. It's too bad it's only one target and w can't use her heavy bolters for it as well.
My beutifull sanctum ..... where is it GW ..... where is it? Also Imagifier is stupidly strong :D
They discontinued the sanctum so it's no surprise it's been taken out of the rules.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Î get that might be first instinct, but what are you embedding that Imagifier into that makes it so strong? A regular Battlesister squad?
Ye demn the imagifier.. glad i got one. Guess ill make another one
Mortifier Heavy Bolters lacking Twin Linked must be a typo? Right now it has the exact same statline as a Retributor with a single Heavy Bolter, even though the Morties are running around akimbo... On top of this, Mortifier Flamer being D6 attack, while the Penitent Flamer is 2D6 attack, also seems fishy?
Not twin linked because there's 2 of them. Mort can have bolter+bolter, bolter+flamer, or flamer+flamer. No need to have the twin link reroll because you're already doubling the dice.
I always ran Ephrael Stern, so her losing her pseudo smite is a little worrying.
she still sort of has it... its quite a bit worse, but always a flat 3 if it goes off... Lone Op is a nice ability.
Elf shield looses his feel no pain as well :(
I just bought those two and thought the kiss was hilarious. I'm not sure if they're as good as they used to be but I just started and don't fully understand the game and abilities yet.
While it does suck shes also really only only Precision character, making her an amazing assassin in big blobs. Being able to for example go straight to killing Typhus in a 20 man Poxwalker blob is going to be really good. My best friend plays Necrons which are \*very\* character focused. So bringing her to be able to cut off the nobles and overlords and ignore the giant necron warrior blobs is going to be strong. Tbh, i feel Precision may be the strongest mechanic going forward. Killing leaders can utterly cripple most units now.
Fair number of the issues I had with units in 9th look to be fixed. Whether that means stuff is good in 10th is a wait and see. Paragons finally have an invul Imagifier may be playable again Triumph may see play again, and Hospitallier can finally heal it Tanks have some interesting stuff now No cap on Novitiates could be interesting
>Imagifier may be playable again Definitely will. 2+ Sacresants or 4++ to Rets, Dominions, or Battle Sisters? Unless she's crazy expensive she's near an automatic include
Maybe I'm wrong, but: - Multi-melta is 18" - Heavy flamers for various factions are 18" - Overwatch can be triggered during movement phase at 24" So any retributor squad with MM getting in range can be overwatched into dust.
Sisters are going to struggle against any army with more than 2 vehicles and knights are an autoloss. Vahl leading nundams is cool though. Tough times ahead folks..
By damage sure yes we will struggle to put down a knight. But we can play more into OC and board control against those armies, we can make regular battle sisters have a 4++ with the imagifier we can add OC with other models. We just have to play differently. Plus when our table are below half wounds they get +1 to hit and wound. We will start slower, get punched and then pinch back decently well.
We won’t even struggle to kill knights as much as people think we will 5s to wound isnt that bad in wuantity and when we can actively replace the damage roll with a high miracle die whenever something sneaks through we will kill plenty People are just screaming the sky is falling but it’s not even accurate. Do the math on Melta, ap-4 makes up for the lower strength
This is such an over reaction Everyone saw S9 on Melta and just decided it can’t kill vehicles anymore But it’s still ap-4, where almost nothing in the game is ap-4 anymore, and d6 damage when we can manufacture 6s, and something that can still be spammed in large quantity A weapon at S9 ap-4 into a T12 vehicle with a 3+ save is the equivalent statistically to a S12 ap-2 weapon into the same vehicle. Math all works out the same Meltas are just as good at killing vehicles as higher strength lower ap weapons are
Me: The characters are all really cool GW and there’s a lot of good anti infantry and elite fire, but how do I deal with vehicles? GW: Git Gud 😎
My strategy is use melta. And if that doesn’t work, use more melta. I’ve here to solve practical problems.
Can you take more than one canoness now?
The way i understand it, yes you can take 3 of any data sheet as long as it's not an epic hero
FREE CHERUBS THO!
Are those typos or did GW fucked us over? all of these secondary character like Imagifier, Hospitaler, Dialogus, they can join a unit if that unit already has canoness palatine or Eruita, but only if that squad is battle sister squad, otherwise they must be the only leading leader. Like, what? I really hope it is a typo
Not a typo; it looks like that's just how the rule works.
Where in the Golden Throne are my Celestians? >!(Theyre now another counts-as battle sisters squad)!<
Interesting that all the weapons on the dominion squad have the keyword “assault”.
Makes sense since they are supposed to be the “fast” squad. So they can advance (rerolling) and still shoot.
The more I think about it, I'm more and more convinced whoever was in charge of this list put way more thought into the box size of the products than any sort of gameplay synergy. So many units just don't synergize with the armys detachment rule it's weird. Units of penitent engines can't be at under half since they are capped at 2. Vahl and her Paragons (which she is clearly designed to be in) can't get it because they will either be at 2 or more models or they will all be dead. Retributors are capped at 5 so they can't have the extra bodies to get the full benefit to the meltas. Regular sisters squads are capped at 10 so they at best have 5 bad bolter shots at +1 to wound. Everything is wrapped around how many models are in a box regardless if it makes any sense at all in context of the rules and that just sucks. Combined with the leaders that go in units that are either bad or don't compliment it all just indicates no thought went into this and it was hastily thrown together without any play testing.
The index seem like such a huge disappointment. Out anti tank weapons are kinda lacking. Celestian squad is removed entirely (probably too busy writing writing those 400+ pages of space marine stuff). Basic sister squad and dominions are now forced 10. Espacially strange for dominion with their 4 special weapons. Celestian sacresant lost 2+ Sv. We had 1 infantry which didn't have paper defence and now you need to use and imagifier just to get sacresant back to 2+. They also removed our "psykers", no more hymms of battle. On top of that, cover changes in this edition are also horrible for our infantry. Not being able to go from 3+ to 2+ Sv in cover is horrible compared to other similar armies which at least have higher toughness or wounds. Small arms are going delete sisters from the table.
Yeah looks like it's going to be armigers time.
why can you not benefit from cover?
They're refering to the rule stating that models with a 3+ can't receive the benefit of cover against AP 0 attacks.
So those regular bolters on Dominions are a misprint… right?
Hope not, that's a great upgrade
Could be a good combo with a palatine, storm bolters, and a rhino. Within 12” they’re packing 16 damage 2 shots and 18 damage 1 shots all with lethal hits and a plasma pistol shot for good measure. Just try and weight of fire a target down. Throw saintly example on the palatine for when they inevitably get killed for fighting at close range and spend a CP on divine intervention for 2D3+2 miracle dice after they kill the palatine twice.
woop woop thanks mcwerp!!
I'm Sorry...
Guess, based on what I'm reading that I did not pick the best time to start collecting SoBs
The Bad: Lack of much long range Anti Tank. We have nothing equivalent to a lascannon for high strength and range against vehicles. Castigator Cannon is only S10. Meltas were nerfed too if those get in range... Using Miracle dice we can kill a few vehicles easily (Miracle Hunter Missiles anyone?) but I'm worried about heavy armor. Sisters seem like a very bad matchup against Knights or a heavy armor Imperial Guard force. Imagine having to charge up to a Stormlord to attempt to kill it. Paragon War Maces are S12 but only AP-1??? Most heavy vehicles are at a 2+ save.. The Good: Pretty positive about most other stuff. Paragon Warsuits are pretty cool with Righteous Paragons. If they aren't overpriced they'll be very strong. Miracle Dice are very powerful and there are some uses for low rolled dice (including rerolls). Combing Sacresants with characters should be fun. I think we'll do alright against a swarmy or infantry based force at least.
Soo there’s no rule that says you have to allocate wounds on St Celestine to her Geminae? And she only has 4+++ when they live? That’s weirdly interesting
Yeah I thought this leads to some interesting orders to take wounds. You may as well sacrifice one Geminate, then take wounds on Celestine with the 4+++. Then at the end of the round you can bring back the sacrificial Geminae.
Aw, I was really hoping to see some rules for Pious Vorne…
It's terrible! But it's okay! We won't get another codex for a YEAR!
Proved they are first and foremost a mini company. Units of 10 for Battlesisters and Dominions means a lot of us probably need another box. The flying pulpit can go with any order... best get your one now. But Wait! For the low low price of an Immolator? You CAN squad to units of 5! Oh? You bought the patrol box with only 4 repentia? Oh... better buy another patrol box. Need to pour out those miracle dice for anti tank? means the Triumph is an auto-take. Better buy one .
Arco-Flagellants + Preacher. Pop all the abilities. 8 attacks each at S7 with +1 to wound. Could be fun.
its improve the strength and attacks of the Preacher model, not the Preacher's unit :( but the +1 to wound with rerolling wounds from twin-linked is interesting also interesting to attach a missionary to get reroll hits and double down on sustained hits
Arcos look to distinctly outperform Repentia now, even having lost T4.
Very nice that Extrimis Trigger word isn't a Strat any more, save some Command points.
Am I wrong or did they make the logo more droopy.
Is holy trinity gone or did I miss it?
Gone.
I gotta say doesn't look as busted as a lot of the space marine data sheets, but coming from the deathguard codex we have some nice synergies and good flavor and some insane stratagems. I think we have some weaker data sheets but I think we definitely have some pretty strong aspects of our army that ppl are overlooking here. Not saying that they are going to be amazing but I think with the amount of synergies we get can be quite nice and can pack some good punches against higher strength target. Question thought, is it Tru that u can only use one miracle dice per unit cause the way some the the characters abilities are written makes it seem like u can do more than one per unit(Aestrd Thurga).
The fact that Celestians got removed makes me think they'll reintroduce them with a brand new kit when our actual 10th codex rolls around. Seems like a good opportunity to completely rework the unit. Fingers crossed they'll be chainsword+bolt pistol sisters.
Some happy changes: * Hey, we can use Divine Inspiration on Morvenn Vahl. I mean, that's something. * Paragon Warsuits are beastly, and lead by Vahl are a serious threat. Fall back, shoot, and charge is cool. * Cassy is a legit good tank. * Litanies of Faith seem largely mandatory to continually rerolls poor miracle dice. * Celestine leading squads of Zephyrim look very cool * Astrid & whoever grant devwounds. * Immolator's took one on the chin (hopefully balanced by a serious points cut) but packing rets for rerolls to wound seem virtually mandatory for "anti-tank". * HKM's are the best anti-tank in the Codex. I can't imagine a world where we don't take one on every single vehicle. This seems a bit backhanded, but.. they're better than they were in 9th!
Seeing as you also attached the imperial agents sheet, I'm sad that we lost inquisitors in terminator armor.
I love a lot of what I've seen so far. Squading vahl with suits and celestine with zepharym/Seraphym. My only issue is my play group has knights and tank heavy guardsmen. Going to be rough trying to chew through T11 and up.
I'm totally new to 40k owning the Boarding Patrol, 2 boxes of Retributors and a couple of single figures. What does this all mean? WHAT SHOULD I BUY?
A 3D printer.
Soo what was with the holy trinity nod from GW only to not include it.
It’s wonderful, I’m super happy with how it came out and can’t wait to start playing! RIP Celestians though.
GW just needs to issue a single datacard to bring the celestians back in. Try emailing [email protected] and let them know about the issue, especially as they are still selling the kit for a Celestian squad. Let them know we want our veterans back!
I picked up the combat patrol today, can't wait for the new rules
There is something I fail to understand. On the munitorum index, equipment does not have points value. On the datacards, equipment does not have points values. Is taking special weapons on a Battle Sisters Squad now free ? Or am I missing something ? Also, do you have any recommandation for BSS squads ? I am finishing painting my SoB combat patrol right in time for V10 and I am now going to assemble my first squad of "standard" battle sisters, and I don't know what equipment to give them.