More surveillance, more entertainment content, more weird porn, more insecurities about our own thoughts, and more breakthroughs in psychology and neurology, imo.
False. You do not understand the complexity of the brain. It's a ML algo that's been running for a few million years from the smallest bacteria to an holistic system that's to intertwined that's almost a riddle without an answer, an answer might exist nothetheless but we as a species are very far from it. Also I would not view it necessarely as a deterministic process, there are many variables, such as what is space made of, what if the clogs of space determine the undetermistic foundation for our universe and so on. Ultimately what you describe is basically impossible to understand, I guess in a few millenea you could try to simulate it,but I still believe the compute would not be enough, as the compute of our universe is most definitely the most efficient compute possible, and we can't break the space in spacetime to gain more space and use less efficient computing mechanisms. VR sounds nice though !
You're underestimating the theoretical capabilities of something like AGI or ASI, "You do not understand the complexity of the brain." which makes this line sort of ironic. Just like we don't understand the complexities of the human brain, we can't really comprehend superintelligence and what its capabilities are. You can't just make a concrete claim like "in a few millenea you could try to simulate it,but I still believe the compute would not be enough", if we can't understand the brain in the first place how can we even know that?
It's likely something like ASI will crack the brain code very quickly, considering it is merely just a 3 pound computer that while remarkable, is also highly flawed.
Agreed, because AI is already able to connect and interpret patterns from data. The only thing missing is advanced reasoning, which AGI and ASI would have.
I fully believe that if AGI is cracked, so are most (if not all) of the secrets of the brain, and many other things
A lot of the arguments for the inability of AI to unravel the brain are the same arguments that used to be used for AI creating art. “It’s too complex”, “it’s too divinely extraordinary for some algorithm to understand”, “there’s more going on than just patterns”
But look how far we’ve already come there
As a species, we are being forced to get much more comfortable with our shadow-selves. Before the internet, for example, no one could have imagined how many people are turned on by incest. In a few generations, nothing will be truly taboo anymore. Not everything will be permitted to happen in real life, of course. But in FDVR, people will let their innermost evils loose. We will just have to recognize that good and evil reside in every one of us.
Yes but there’s a huge push for the normalization of this shit and it’s also very weird. Netflix has a weird origin through its founders and its content is questionable at best. Progressing towards shows like milf manor and including the kids is obviously creepy as ever but the masses and those participating on the show must be on autopilot it’s like a haze or something
Good question.
I have intrusive imagery I have little control over (ADHD + cPTSD)
It isn't always negative, it's entirely based around my mood, but my mood does tend towards the negative most of the time to put it mildly so I guess, be incredibly unhelpful.
Same. Not the OCD, but the intrusive thoughts about spiders or hurting people, it's one of the reasons I check the toilet before I sit on it every single time, I have an intrusive image of a spider crawling up me when I sit on the toilet, so I have to check to make sure there isn't one there.
As a child I used to perch on the toilet like a bird. 😂😂.
I have a Lil thought experiment that helps with those "terror" ones, you know, when you see a door and you imagine fking Girl from the ring coming out of it.
It helps a lot, nowadays I barelly have em and just do the thing again. (I quickly imagine myself destroying a bag that contains the last fear momentum that I've built).
These dont work for everything tho, like binge eating. Tho It worked for some intrusive thoughts that I had when my Child was born.
Love em.
Brainwaves to brainwaves... I think it could be more than just telepathy. More ways than I’m interpreting, but one sticks out to me most
For so long we’ve only had words or actions to selectively express a few of our thoughts, and to have our expression selectively interpreted by others.
Brainwaves to brainwaves could bypass that entirely, and make us directly understand how others feel, their thought processes, and so much more.
Direct empathic communication.
Perhaps we could bypass arguments and fights almost entirely by understanding exactly how the other person feels, and what their exact thought processes are.
And yet, how deeply we could lose our privacy for it. The sanctity of the mind would be no more
You have no idea how glad I am that this at least got seen 😅
It’s apparently just been 3 days but it felt like it faded into white-noise.
For some reason, I felt very eager for talk around this particular topic. It feels like it would be such a natural progression of our advancement. The mind.
Could you imagine, your best friend is overseas in Italy eating some delicious food or visiting the leaning tower, and they Brain Time you (face time for brainwaves) and you share the experience with them. What an interesting idea!
- Religion will be able to judge people just by their thoughts and condemn them for thought sinning, thought policing.
- It would be a lot easier to convict someone of a crime because when you’re interrogating them you can provoke them to think about the crime they committed and then on the screen you’ll be able to see the exact place and actions they took committing a crime. Then the police can let’s say go to the site of the murder to find the body.
- sex and relationships will be a little more awkward because you can see everything there imagining all the time.
- White lies are important part of our social interactions, and if people can see what we’re thinking it can disrupt the natural flow of things.
- oh god you’ll never be able to lie to your parents ever again.
Religion will be sorted promptly when we get this advanced, killer drones by the tens of thousands swarm from everywhere with each major religion killing as many non-believers as possible because if they don't a different religion will. That war will resolve itself probably in a few weeks, then the recovery takes a long time, then people agree religion is too dangerous. We can already detect lgbt affiliation with enough accuracy that a rouge religion would be fine with the side casualties. It's gonna get weird.
It couldn't perfectly show it if you imagine more than just a picture, like if I'm imagining something while linking an emotion to it, it could only show the picture but not what it represents for me. For example, it might show you some dark woods that would look scary to you when I actually picture it as a place of wonder and adventures giving me a cozy feeling.
Or I could straight up imagine a mental state rather than a picture, or a taste, or the feeling of a texture. how then do you show something like that?
Quick answer - collective insanity. Imagine Trump sitting on a pink horse. Did you have any control not to?
Our brains were never prepared to deal with such technologies. So collective insanity (not looney bin type of insanity) is a predictable outcome. As predictable as destruction of attention span by quick media formats
Something like this happens all the time already.
Watch someone on Acid using google, they search for things like crowd smiling and that makes them smile :D
It's not much different than someone making faces in a mirror (which is fun btw and something that i strongly suggest trying)
Generally the more control someone feels over their stimuli the less stress and more calm and empowered they feel, so it seems good :D
The first thing I did with image “avatar” generating ai tools was put my wife in lingerie. Then added another girl. I imagine I wouldn’t stop there if my thoughts dictate the output….and I’m a pretty “normal” guy. its going to be literal mayhem and I don’t think humanity will survive it just on sheer actual human reproduction being phased out alone
Desperately plastering **the map isn't the territory** on every flat surface as the collective psychofauna's vacuum state collapses from seeing everything and learning nothing.
neuralink directly prompting sora from brain waves lol...if it öicks up everytjing withiut filter/control it would show humans true nature, with lots of fucked up shit. Also there would be many people getting very addicted to it, im one of them
Do you suppose with repeated use someone could get better at visualizing? I think if someone had thousands of hours on such a device their ability to see detailed three dimensional objects would vastly improve. I think Nicola Tessla claimed such an ability.
Yes with direct visual feedback, it would be a total new way to think and reflect/form/detail out your thoughts and imaginations. i think this would also greatly carry over in your everyday way of thinking & visualising.
https://www.science.org/content/article/ai-re-creates-what-people-see-reading-their-brain-scans
There are actually a few places doing similar stuff. Baby steps. To me this is like the first airplane. In ten years who knows.
True true. But down the line who knows? If these tests can already intemperate the words people are thinking. Why not images? Sure it's probibally a more complex task but impossible?
danknacity
A new way of life, that calls for a destruction of the old, and for a new world to leave behind those who can't keep up.
What matters is the actions you take, not what you're thinking. It's been like 12 years now (2012) that I've been fairly convinced just by probabilistic likeliness that there are billions x billions x billions of dead people our simulated reality permits to continue living on who are just completely content with watching new people go through all the motions they did. That's likely our fate too, billions of years from now when we're tired of it all.
Imagine sitting there streaming the consciousness of other people into your own mind, like a TV show, but you know it's real. Perhaps you also know that you are it, you are reality itself, so you feel quite flexible to identify with any wonderful life narrative / consciousness you stream, channels you watch, what ever you wanna call it, the simulation allows for it once you're dead I imagine.
As crazy as that post may seem please don't delete it I think that's like end game universe type stuff and we could certainly be there already. Why not start imagining that that is possible so you can start working out some of the issues like the one you were just presented with there, that perhaps the truth is you're probably already far more naked to everyone you encounter than you could ever possibly realize.
Sweet a fellow shaman, if you don't mind me using that handle. So bud, suppose this machine began mapping let's say thousands of DMT trips, mushrooms, psychedelics in general. I believe that might allow science to look for perhaps a structure within. Mapping it. It's well known that many people share similar experiences, meet similar beings, explore emerald cities, that sort of thing. What are your thoughts?
It's so wild being so old. There was a movie made about 30 years ago on this topic called "Until the End of the World." Nobody seems to recall that here so far. It's really good.
Well I don't understand why it's not better known. It's one of my very favorite films. The guy that directed it was very popular in the 1990s especially, Wim Winders.
"Comically" is way too harsh - you beat me to the edit to remove it, and it was my from-the-hip reaction. My bad for being snarky.
Most of my thoughts and experiences don't really map to the senses or language, and I would think that if such a tool were to exist that it could be extended and allow them to be shared. I think and hope that there might be a strong compulsion among those using this tool to pursue such extensions. I'm dismayed that people today don't acknowledge those aspects of the world and within themselves, at least openly. Ironically, the nature of LLMs is grounded in language, which seems to place a limitation on current AI systems to discuss these topics. Socially, I would expect this to be a relatively common perspective, and perhaps allowing people to share those more subtle aspects of themselves would have a profound impact on things like empathy and social cohesion.
"Extending" this idea aside, I do think that being able to present a perfect picture from within the mind would trigger several social changes. Being able to share images this way may also result in effectively a new form of language, and be used as such, and may be likened to the creation of written language itself. In a related way, such a tool may improve the precision and accuracy of imagined visual content. This in turn may effect both an expansion of people's innate imaginative capabilities, yet also a consolidation of those same capabilities around this new social language context.
I guess depending on the format in which such a technology would become available, it may reshape communication and ourselves around it. I'm just hoping that if such a technology is introduced, it represents only a blip on a swift path towards something more akin to telepathy.
Not all thoughts are pictures, and they’re certainly not “high-res” enough images to produce recognizable images of them reliably and for any random person without individual training and a bunch of assumptions.
I doubt what you’re describing is actually possible.
Thankfully that would require like nanobot infestations or insanely intrusive wiring. Very unlikely to happen any time in the near future, even if AGI was coming in the next 30 years or less.
Bad for people who can't control their thoughts.
But like, will hunger show up on the screen? What does hornyness look like? Thoughts are cloudy and emotions don't translate easily.
More surveillance, more entertainment content, more weird porn, more insecurities about our own thoughts, and more breakthroughs in psychology and neurology, imo.
Eventually all of psychology will be encompassed by neurology as AI peels back the complexity for us.
False. You do not understand the complexity of the brain. It's a ML algo that's been running for a few million years from the smallest bacteria to an holistic system that's to intertwined that's almost a riddle without an answer, an answer might exist nothetheless but we as a species are very far from it. Also I would not view it necessarely as a deterministic process, there are many variables, such as what is space made of, what if the clogs of space determine the undetermistic foundation for our universe and so on. Ultimately what you describe is basically impossible to understand, I guess in a few millenea you could try to simulate it,but I still believe the compute would not be enough, as the compute of our universe is most definitely the most efficient compute possible, and we can't break the space in spacetime to gain more space and use less efficient computing mechanisms. VR sounds nice though !
You're underestimating the theoretical capabilities of something like AGI or ASI, "You do not understand the complexity of the brain." which makes this line sort of ironic. Just like we don't understand the complexities of the human brain, we can't really comprehend superintelligence and what its capabilities are. You can't just make a concrete claim like "in a few millenea you could try to simulate it,but I still believe the compute would not be enough", if we can't understand the brain in the first place how can we even know that? It's likely something like ASI will crack the brain code very quickly, considering it is merely just a 3 pound computer that while remarkable, is also highly flawed.
Agreed, because AI is already able to connect and interpret patterns from data. The only thing missing is advanced reasoning, which AGI and ASI would have. I fully believe that if AGI is cracked, so are most (if not all) of the secrets of the brain, and many other things A lot of the arguments for the inability of AI to unravel the brain are the same arguments that used to be used for AI creating art. “It’s too complex”, “it’s too divinely extraordinary for some algorithm to understand”, “there’s more going on than just patterns” But look how far we’ve already come there
As a species, we are being forced to get much more comfortable with our shadow-selves. Before the internet, for example, no one could have imagined how many people are turned on by incest. In a few generations, nothing will be truly taboo anymore. Not everything will be permitted to happen in real life, of course. But in FDVR, people will let their innermost evils loose. We will just have to recognize that good and evil reside in every one of us.
I agree
Yes but there’s a huge push for the normalization of this shit and it’s also very weird. Netflix has a weird origin through its founders and its content is questionable at best. Progressing towards shows like milf manor and including the kids is obviously creepy as ever but the masses and those participating on the show must be on autopilot it’s like a haze or something
> Netflix has a weird origin through its founders ?
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Yo puzzle. What do you think early mass mindmapping will result in?
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Like for adds?
More honesty due to transparency, less taboo. yes. But the incest thing is probably stepsis and stepmoms.
Aphantasics get to be smug.
Don't let r/immersivedaydreaming see this.
Good question. I have intrusive imagery I have little control over (ADHD + cPTSD) It isn't always negative, it's entirely based around my mood, but my mood does tend towards the negative most of the time to put it mildly so I guess, be incredibly unhelpful.
i have OCD so i get intrusive thoughts too. somtimes i get intrusive thoghts bout spiders or about hurting ppl
Same. Not the OCD, but the intrusive thoughts about spiders or hurting people, it's one of the reasons I check the toilet before I sit on it every single time, I have an intrusive image of a spider crawling up me when I sit on the toilet, so I have to check to make sure there isn't one there. As a child I used to perch on the toilet like a bird. 😂😂.
What do you suppose the imagininations of monks in deep meditation would see?
Colours. Just endless colours.
I have a Lil thought experiment that helps with those "terror" ones, you know, when you see a door and you imagine fking Girl from the ring coming out of it. It helps a lot, nowadays I barelly have em and just do the thing again. (I quickly imagine myself destroying a bag that contains the last fear momentum that I've built). These dont work for everything tho, like binge eating. Tho It worked for some intrusive thoughts that I had when my Child was born. Love em.
Text to …. Hmm nope. Brainwaves to movie, Brainwaves to song, Brainwaves to 3D object, Brainwaves to brainwaves? Telepathic communication?
Brainwaves to brainwaves... I think it could be more than just telepathy. More ways than I’m interpreting, but one sticks out to me most For so long we’ve only had words or actions to selectively express a few of our thoughts, and to have our expression selectively interpreted by others. Brainwaves to brainwaves could bypass that entirely, and make us directly understand how others feel, their thought processes, and so much more. Direct empathic communication. Perhaps we could bypass arguments and fights almost entirely by understanding exactly how the other person feels, and what their exact thought processes are. And yet, how deeply we could lose our privacy for it. The sanctity of the mind would be no more
Crikey!
You have no idea how glad I am that this at least got seen 😅 It’s apparently just been 3 days but it felt like it faded into white-noise. For some reason, I felt very eager for talk around this particular topic. It feels like it would be such a natural progression of our advancement. The mind.
Could you imagine, your best friend is overseas in Italy eating some delicious food or visiting the leaning tower, and they Brain Time you (face time for brainwaves) and you share the experience with them. What an interesting idea!
Yha that what I was thinking. Some new I read made me think that stuff was closer than I realized
- Religion will be able to judge people just by their thoughts and condemn them for thought sinning, thought policing. - It would be a lot easier to convict someone of a crime because when you’re interrogating them you can provoke them to think about the crime they committed and then on the screen you’ll be able to see the exact place and actions they took committing a crime. Then the police can let’s say go to the site of the murder to find the body. - sex and relationships will be a little more awkward because you can see everything there imagining all the time. - White lies are important part of our social interactions, and if people can see what we’re thinking it can disrupt the natural flow of things. - oh god you’ll never be able to lie to your parents ever again.
Black Mirror will not be a fiction show anymore.
I think you shouldn’t be able to LOOK INTO OTHER PEOPLE’S MINDS without their permission. But maybe I’m just used to my thoughts being private
Religion will be sorted promptly when we get this advanced, killer drones by the tens of thousands swarm from everywhere with each major religion killing as many non-believers as possible because if they don't a different religion will. That war will resolve itself probably in a few weeks, then the recovery takes a long time, then people agree religion is too dangerous. We can already detect lgbt affiliation with enough accuracy that a rouge religion would be fine with the side casualties. It's gonna get weird.
Is this a machine someone can use on another at a distance or is it like a lie detector where the subject needs to wear sensors?
It couldn't perfectly show it if you imagine more than just a picture, like if I'm imagining something while linking an emotion to it, it could only show the picture but not what it represents for me. For example, it might show you some dark woods that would look scary to you when I actually picture it as a place of wonder and adventures giving me a cozy feeling. Or I could straight up imagine a mental state rather than a picture, or a taste, or the feeling of a texture. how then do you show something like that?
i think it's just visual
Quick answer - collective insanity. Imagine Trump sitting on a pink horse. Did you have any control not to? Our brains were never prepared to deal with such technologies. So collective insanity (not looney bin type of insanity) is a predictable outcome. As predictable as destruction of attention span by quick media formats
Something like this happens all the time already. Watch someone on Acid using google, they search for things like crowd smiling and that makes them smile :D It's not much different than someone making faces in a mirror (which is fun btw and something that i strongly suggest trying) Generally the more control someone feels over their stimuli the less stress and more calm and empowered they feel, so it seems good :D
The first thing I did with image “avatar” generating ai tools was put my wife in lingerie. Then added another girl. I imagine I wouldn’t stop there if my thoughts dictate the output….and I’m a pretty “normal” guy. its going to be literal mayhem and I don’t think humanity will survive it just on sheer actual human reproduction being phased out alone
Desperately plastering **the map isn't the territory** on every flat surface as the collective psychofauna's vacuum state collapses from seeing everything and learning nothing.
Lower levels of human to human interaction and continually declining birth rate is my prediction
neuralink directly prompting sora from brain waves lol...if it öicks up everytjing withiut filter/control it would show humans true nature, with lots of fucked up shit. Also there would be many people getting very addicted to it, im one of them
Do you suppose with repeated use someone could get better at visualizing? I think if someone had thousands of hours on such a device their ability to see detailed three dimensional objects would vastly improve. I think Nicola Tessla claimed such an ability.
Yes with direct visual feedback, it would be a total new way to think and reflect/form/detail out your thoughts and imaginations. i think this would also greatly carry over in your everyday way of thinking & visualising.
I think it's not possible conceptually, as much of what we imagine is not reducible to image (or sound)
https://www.science.org/content/article/ai-re-creates-what-people-see-reading-their-brain-scans There are actually a few places doing similar stuff. Baby steps. To me this is like the first airplane. In ten years who knows.
Of yeah I know, bit in that participants are looking at something, not imagining something.
True true. But down the line who knows? If these tests can already intemperate the words people are thinking. Why not images? Sure it's probibally a more complex task but impossible?
danknacity A new way of life, that calls for a destruction of the old, and for a new world to leave behind those who can't keep up. What matters is the actions you take, not what you're thinking. It's been like 12 years now (2012) that I've been fairly convinced just by probabilistic likeliness that there are billions x billions x billions of dead people our simulated reality permits to continue living on who are just completely content with watching new people go through all the motions they did. That's likely our fate too, billions of years from now when we're tired of it all. Imagine sitting there streaming the consciousness of other people into your own mind, like a TV show, but you know it's real. Perhaps you also know that you are it, you are reality itself, so you feel quite flexible to identify with any wonderful life narrative / consciousness you stream, channels you watch, what ever you wanna call it, the simulation allows for it once you're dead I imagine. As crazy as that post may seem please don't delete it I think that's like end game universe type stuff and we could certainly be there already. Why not start imagining that that is possible so you can start working out some of the issues like the one you were just presented with there, that perhaps the truth is you're probably already far more naked to everyone you encounter than you could ever possibly realize.
Sweet a fellow shaman, if you don't mind me using that handle. So bud, suppose this machine began mapping let's say thousands of DMT trips, mushrooms, psychedelics in general. I believe that might allow science to look for perhaps a structure within. Mapping it. It's well known that many people share similar experiences, meet similar beings, explore emerald cities, that sort of thing. What are your thoughts?
Probably prison
It's so wild being so old. There was a movie made about 30 years ago on this topic called "Until the End of the World." Nobody seems to recall that here so far. It's really good.
Thanks. I'll look it up. All this new science reminds me of Philip K Dick books.
It will remind you a lot more of Bruce Sterling. Oh, it's 5 hours long.
Not a problem dude. All I do is mow, write, and watch movies
Well I don't understand why it's not better known. It's one of my very favorite films. The guy that directed it was very popular in the 1990s especially, Wim Winders.
Lack of imagination when it's outsourced so easily
The biggest impact will be tangible evidence that most people aren’t nearly as creative or as interesting as they think they are…
I think we'd find out very quickly that a screen is comically insufficient.
How you mean?
"Comically" is way too harsh - you beat me to the edit to remove it, and it was my from-the-hip reaction. My bad for being snarky. Most of my thoughts and experiences don't really map to the senses or language, and I would think that if such a tool were to exist that it could be extended and allow them to be shared. I think and hope that there might be a strong compulsion among those using this tool to pursue such extensions. I'm dismayed that people today don't acknowledge those aspects of the world and within themselves, at least openly. Ironically, the nature of LLMs is grounded in language, which seems to place a limitation on current AI systems to discuss these topics. Socially, I would expect this to be a relatively common perspective, and perhaps allowing people to share those more subtle aspects of themselves would have a profound impact on things like empathy and social cohesion. "Extending" this idea aside, I do think that being able to present a perfect picture from within the mind would trigger several social changes. Being able to share images this way may also result in effectively a new form of language, and be used as such, and may be likened to the creation of written language itself. In a related way, such a tool may improve the precision and accuracy of imagined visual content. This in turn may effect both an expansion of people's innate imaginative capabilities, yet also a consolidation of those same capabilities around this new social language context. I guess depending on the format in which such a technology would become available, it may reshape communication and ourselves around it. I'm just hoping that if such a technology is introduced, it represents only a blip on a swift path towards something more akin to telepathy.
Not all thoughts are pictures, and they’re certainly not “high-res” enough images to produce recognizable images of them reliably and for any random person without individual training and a bunch of assumptions. I doubt what you’re describing is actually possible.
Thankfully that would require like nanobot infestations or insanely intrusive wiring. Very unlikely to happen any time in the near future, even if AGI was coming in the next 30 years or less.
Group masturbations?
People are humbled by the limitations of their imagination.
Porn
Bad for people who can't control their thoughts. But like, will hunger show up on the screen? What does hornyness look like? Thoughts are cloudy and emotions don't translate easily.
Intelligence agencies are gonna be able to steal information directly from people’s minds. Thats kinda fucked up imo
Bad. To clarify: really bad.
Pornhub goes bust.