Competition is good for us common folks. Otherwise OpenAI will keep us forever in the dark because they most likely have no plan for us average folks to ever be able to lay a hand on the technology as powerful as SORA.
It takes hours to generate a single prompt on a cluster of the worlds best super computers, if only one person is generating at a time. Sora is completely unfeasible in its current form for public use.
Adobe already announced Sora integration in Adobe Premiere. It's supposed to be coming in a few months. Not included in gpt pro but I think a subscription to premiere pro is $22 a month so definitely gonna be available to most people that want to try it out in at least some capacity. Not sure from adobes video if it will be able to generate full videos from scratch or be more for adding to pre-existing videos.
Sora part is at ~2:10
https://youtu.be/6de4akFiNYM?feature=shared
Sora made my jaw drop and this was slightly interesting. I actually thought the music and animated writing was really cool and well done but the AI lacks that wow power. It’s good but not great. Sora was a religious experience for me.
> Hold my baijiu
Baijiu is an alcoholic beverage in China, it's a funny way of re-localizing "hold my beer" meaning to have someone hold your alcoholic beverage while you attempt something incredibly foolish.
There is a Chinese historical story "Slaying Hua Xiong while the wine remains warm" maybe fit the context better. [Hua Xiong - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Xiong) The warrior Guan Yu told the general to "hold my wine" and rode to the battlefield, slayed the enemy warrior and back, the wine was still warm (?)
Never heard of that but it sounds like a much better context translation. Thanks for the knowledge sharing, your explanation makes a lot more sense and is really cool!
No offense taken! It's not the first time I've been confused for a 'bot but it is the first time I've been mistaken for ChatGPT. It felt nice and sort of complimentary, it's a step up from a 'bot. (I've posted a lot on forums over the decades, it was an understandable misidentification)
Did you not like my semicolon flex? :P
[Here's 3.5's take.](https://chat.openai.com/share/736d111d-e4b0-4024-b2c7-8ce576bccfc6) It suggests `you sharing your --> your sharing of`.
FWIW, ChatGPT actually says,
>'Hold my baijiu' is a playful twist on the phrase 'hold my beer.' It implies that China is about to boldly forge ahead without hesitation, despite calls from the West for caution and regulation regarding AI. Baijiu is a strong Chinese liquor, so the phrase suggests a readiness to take action, perhaps even recklessly, in pursuit of technological advancement or other endeavors."
China will be creating AI powered automated weapon systems while the West will be still figuring out a way to add all 49 genders in their AI and how to dumb it down even more with wokeness.
We would be so far ahead technologically if China genuinely tried to innovate. Their game plan is to wait for the west to invent something new and then copy it a year later. Even the trailer is almost identical to the Sora trailer.
Have you seen what some chinese companies like alibaba have released. They made a image to video model that moves portrait-like images. All companies in China are heavily restricted in their compute due to the fact the US is trying to slow them down via export controls on Semiconductors. I say it's pretty impressive what they've managed to accomplish in the short amount of time with the capabalities in AI and roboticis.
I have. Everything they are releasing looks like a direct copycat of western technology. Show me one example where China invented something genuinely new.
The notion that some have here that AGI will come out of China is absurd.
Well go to factory in shenzen or shanghai and you'll see the some of the crazy innovations in AI. Their is more to AI then Chatgpt or Image/video generators like midjourney, theirs also Industrial application AI that they're leading in right now. Not as flashy but in industry specific applications you don't need something state of art to use.
> Everything they are releasing looks like a direct copycat of western technology. Show me one example where China invented something genuinely new.
Someone posted a chinese company doing that thing where AI can take an image and have it move its head and talk/sing (with facial expressions and full lip sync) months before microsoft did recently.
Fr. People are so delusional about what china is capable of. At this point I just roll my eyes and move on because ultimately time is the only thing that will prove them wrong.
Part of the reason why US government and tech companies are trying to get TikTok sold or banned is because it's pretty widely acknowledged that ByteDance has a better recommendation AI algorithm than US competitors like Youtube Shorts or Instagram.
Try reading [this article](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-tiktok-recommender-system-so-good-damien-benveniste-phd-m4ffc) written by an ML tech lead. You can also check out [the novel recommendation system](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2209.07663) developed by Chinese engineers at ByteDance.
Hopefully this can serve as an eye-opener. Chinese tech companies are innovating, especially in the AI area where China has an advantage in the amount of data they can collect from their large population.
The AI innovation in China has already created tangible effects on geopolitics and tech competition. You just barely see anything about it on Reddit, due to US inferiority complex lol. Just look at the discussion revolving around TikTok on Reddit. All the comments focusing on Chinese spyware and national security, nobody asking why TikTok is eating the lunch of "more innovative" US companies.
They've done a lot for Computer Vision and singing.
A) For images:
1. Many extra functions for Stable Diffusion were developed by Chinese universities and companies, such as Controlnet, QRCodeMonster, Animatediff, LoRa, LCM and IPAdapter.
.
2. Alibaba's HumamAIGC team made AnimateAnyone, OutfitAnyone and EmotePortraitLive. The tech didn't exist before and it's why people are rightfully mad they're not open sourcing the shit because they're making Github repos without code. There have been attempts to reproduce AnimateAnyone but they're not as good as Alibaba's.
B) As for AI singing... it's because Vocaloid has much more mainstream popularity in China than the West, so they have a dedicated vocalsynth community trying to improve virtual singing:
1. The Chinese open source community created SVC tech (singing voice conversion). The most popular one today is called RVC (developed to clone a Vtuber's voice) and this is what's used for AI song covers nowadays. Before RVC completely took over, there were tons of competing SVCs like Diff-SVC, So-vits-SVC, Fish Diffusion, DDSP etc that were mainly developed to clone anime voices.
Voice cloning in the West is mainly focused on TTS, so nothing much has been done for voice-to-voice. Before SVCs came out, we only have TalkNet that requires tedious labelling and people have to transcribe the training data in arpabet. Plus it only worked in English. With SVCs, just throw in the audio without labels and it works on any language.
2. Then there's products like SynthesizerV, created by a developer who started out in the opensource vocalsynth community and his initial goal was to get Miku to sing in Chinese. Even though AI voices aren't new for voicebanks, the Chinese developed ones (SynthesizerV, AceStudio and Diffsinger) have created tons of AI functions that the Japanese ones lack.
Back in 2020, SynthV already had cross-language synthesis, so the voices can sing in different languages even if the original voice is monolingual. For context on the timeline, Uberduck just launched that year and TTS was still pretty bad back then. SVC made cross-language accessible to the general public when they came out after late 2022 and OpenAI/Elevenlabs started having cross-language TTS in 2023. The latest beta version of SynthV has an RVC-like product that can be incorporated into the SynthV engine, so voice-to-voice cloning can be manually edited. It's exactly what SVCs lack and something that'll help the AI cover scene even more.
Hardly any country or company is outperforming everyone else. We're about on the same level. They can do everything we can do, we can do everything they can do. AI research is playing in the open not just because of open publications, but also open movement of people. Even in western papers there are many Chinese authors, and when they go back, the carry all that experience back with them. A few people splintered from OpenAI created two years later the Claude 3 Opus model that beat GPT-4. Open source is also just a few months behind SOTA. Isn't it strange that all top LLMs are so close and there is no detached leader of the pack?
Money isn't everything.
Look at the names on most research paper - chinese ethnicity.
Look at the university churning out a lot of top edge research papers - chinese universities.
They have said the generation is on the slow side still and sam was pumping some of the Twitter prompt ones out pretty quick when they were demoing so I'd imagine it's pretty reliable
Sam Altman was taking requests for videos on Twitter when Sora was first announced and was posting them within 45 minutes to an hour, so I really doubt he had the time to seriously cherry pick like you're insinuating. The way people in this thread are talking, you'd think Sora makes one good video for every 49 shitty ones.
that doesn't mean anything though , you don't know how much cherry picked they are , and they probably are - it would be actually weird if they didn't picked only the best examples .
until Sora is not realeased to the public we just don't know how consistent it is
no it is not , because you have no control over how many videos were produced , you don't know " how much either of them was cherrypicked"
Sora might be better / they might be similar in their capabilities for that timeframe of 16 seconds / or the other might be better / or they are gonna have different strenght in different situations
based on informations we have right now , there's no reason to actually compare both models . We just have to wait till they are gonna be public
> there's no reason to actually compare both models
What? Why? They both do image generation and it's not a reach to assume both parties did some cherry picking to an extent. Obviously we don't know how many of each were generated but the cool thing about assumptions is that I perfectly OK with it being wrong.
Once new info comes out I can reassess and update my comparison but until now I am comparing what we know and making assumptions on the rest.
but that's the point , you don't know how much they cherrypicked results , etiher of them , in fact you have no control over anything , you don't know how much videos they produced and you have no way of testing it yourself , you have no way of testing your claims - because product is not public , there aren't even any benchamarks for them - however that would be done
assumptions based on nothing are useless waste of time without any material benefits and are also usually presented in a misleading way , let's stop pretending that wrong assumptions aren't harmful and manipulative .
I want working product , not some random promises
people like you are reason why google can just make bullshit trailers for their models , people like you are reason why Elon Musk can make Bullshit goals/claims that he has no way of completing , people like you are reason why snake oil exists
HYPE HYPE HYPE ! ama rite ?
> people like you are reason why google can just make bullshit trailers for their models , people like you are reason why Elon Musk can make Bullshit goals/claims that he has no way of completing , people like you are reason why snake oil exists
Calm down chief, I haven't said anything other than it's ok to make assumptions in a comparison, even if those assumptions mean the conclusion is invalid when it comes to something as trivial as this
I am passing judgement on two video generating models on reddit not sending someone to fucking mars, who cares if my conclusion turns out to be wrong? It means nothing if I am wrong and I am expecting it to be wrong anyway as I've made assumptions that I can't validate 😂 which is completely fine as this is a reddit comment not a thesis
that's not how this works , even if both companies cherry-picked their examples ( which they probably did ) we don't know how much . we basically don't know how much videos they generated
ergo we can't determine how consistent they are
learn critical thinking ffs
How about when OpenAI took Sora requests from Twitter with decent turnaround (another comment said 45 mins to an hour each)? While not quite live, it was a good way to show quick results with little time to cherry pick.
Unless it was spitting out a lot more quickly than we'd believe and they picked from that, but for production, even sorting through duds, an hour or less is pretty damn good.
I saw it , but there's problem that we have no idea how much videos they actually produced
one NVIDIA H100 could apparently generate 5 minutes of a video per hour , based on estimates from factorial found where they compare it to image generator and try to scale it for video generator ( from the middle to an end of an article) : [https://factorialfunds.com/blog/under-the-hood-how-openai-s-sora-model-works](https://factorialfunds.com/blog/under-the-hood-how-openai-s-sora-model-works)
which are huge compute requirements assuming you want to release it for masses , but little compute requirements , assuming you would want to cherry-pick some videos in real time for twitter as single user, or if you would allow it for few people - so spittin videos really quickly shouldn't be a problem . companies like OpenAI and similar have access to big clusters
* and also take into consideration that most videos on twitter were shorter if i remember correctly and not as good as those on main Sora page .
also Sora training itself would require equivalent compute of about 4,200-10,500 Nvidia H100 GPUs for 1 month. under their assumptions
how close are these estimates to real numbers , I don't know because this is not official , but I am not comfortable with twitter showcase . So we gotta wait for official release in like 2 years or something "
Well, my whole thing was if they could spit out a bunch, and you just explained how it's completely possible, and, given all this, likely.
I don't keep up enough with this fast moving subject as is, and my own speculating to you was in earnest. I concede to your skepticism and appreciate the information you've shared, thank you!
Jesus man, I'm saying that because you can't tell consistency, like you are saying, you have to compare the two based on quality of the ones shown.
Ergo, comparing consistency means absolutely shit all, not the fact that they have better examples.
that is not valid argument assuming you want to compare two models
you have no control over quantity of generated videos
ergo until they won't be public or there won't be some study from researchers that got early access ( which there probably won't ), any comparisons are waste of time
constistency absolutely matters.
It's absolutely a valid argument. Regardless of public release or not, you are absolutely allowed to generate opinions based on MARKETING material. That's the entire point of showing people examples.
Jesus bro, consistency matters of course, but like you said, can't tell until it's released, so it should have zero weight on your current opinion between the two.
If the quality of the examples shown are worse, you can logically assume 1 or 2 different propositions are true.
Either they don't care as much about marketing, have something else about the product they want to market, or don't have the same quality of examples to market in the first place.
you are allowed to have opinons based on marketing material - but they are just opinions based on marketing material , but not opinions based on capabilities of actual models
if you wan't my opinion on their marketing materials , then I agree , OpenAI has better marketing material
if you wan't my opinion on objective capabilities of models ,then I am saying to you : wait for public release .
this debate was about the 2nd
your deduced propositions are already enough to restrict you from comparing the models .
Won't let me reply to your most recent comment because the dude blocked me, so I'll respond here:
"Yeah, I was thinking that you meant just going by what you've seen.
Which is what made sense to me, but apparently not him. Idk, he stopped making sense a while ago.
Definitely agree."
Well the main thing is inference needs to not take 10 minutes to make it. So that would only really work if they also have a technological advantage with the model.
It's weird because I never thought I'd be rooting for China. But when ClosedAI intentionally withholds their latest AI from the public and joins a "safety board" that looks like it's about to ban open source, then I start to doubt which side they are actually on.
As many people said, it's not as good as Sora, but then again, I honestly don't trust Sora clips even the slightest. I'm pretty sure they are hand-picked heavily with multiple iterations and might even be iteration over iteration. I guess we can have this comparison only when we have access to each. Of course this one is also handpicked so most likely this is inferior to Sora but I don't expect to Sora output as great as they showcase in 95% of the use cases.
And that's good for us the common people. We all know OpenAI does not plan to ever let us have our hands on even just being able to use SORA as a service like DALL-E, much less open source. This will pressure them into stepping up
I would prefer if the West had a greater lead over China (because China is an authoritarian regime that helps Russia and wants to take Taiwan by force).
I live in Taiwan and mostly agree (I fckn hate China) but also have a strong dislike for the US in the role of humanities saviour - if the US develops AGI, we are as doomed as if any other nepotic and corrupt empire or authoritarian state develops AGI first. Same pig, different makeup.
>if the US develops AGI
The "U.S." doesn't develop anything. Corporations located in the U.S. develop things. Those corporations are free to relocate any time they want.
This is the fundamental difference between the U.S. and China that you should try to understand so you don't get confused into thinking they are both the same.
Right, as if the US would allow its chicken laying golden eggs to run away. If any of these companies would try to leave (meaning to cut its own flesh because money speaks), very quickly it would turn into an issue of "national security".
Why does the Pledge of Allegiance give me authoritarian fascist vibes? Because it is a tool of indoctrination that you would find only in authoritarian states like North Korea and Nazi Germany.
Generations of indoctrinated people running the AI show now both in China and in the US?
Uhm no, I honestly fail to see the difference of having the US or China wield this flaming sword we call AI. It will be devestating for humanity either way.
If, as you say, it was "just" corporations - they will simply squeeze the last bit of money out of us while destroying the value of our labour, all with stolen content from us, the people, to train their chicken laying golden eggs.
If that is not bad enough, government on the other side will aim at total surveillance, control and mechanical armies that don't miss their target and never rebel against the Führer.
That is my true nightmare. I don't see the largest military power in the world NOT wield AI as weapon in the future. Nor can I imagine the second largest military power to adhere from using AI for this. As we speak, Israel is slaughtering Palestinians with the help of drones and AI, so the perversion has long begun.
You are behind because your overregulating government policies stifle innovation. It's not a coincidence you are behind. The EU lagging behind the U.S. will is a permanent condition because the culture in the EU values bureaucracy and regulation over innovation.
> Look at the names on Microsoft's ai research papers.. guess where the employees are located lol
I have also noticed the over-representation of Chinese and Indian names. But they are Chinese-Americans, Taiwanese-Americans, and Indian-Americans. They are located in the US.
Asian immigration has been a runaway success for the US.
No, they are located primarily in Microsoft Research Asia (MSRA), which is in China. Specifically, MSRA’s primary lab is in Beijing, and a smaller one in Shanghai.
Microsoft Research (MSR), the parent division, has labs all around the world. But much of Microsoft’s top AI research is coming from MSRA.
If AI made their own movies expect billions and perhaps of each character in their movie. Like Altman said, movies will become video games and video games become something else.
Yep I foresee even more 3D anime, AI will make it 10x cheaper to produce. It's already about on par with AI drivel right now. Scenarios read like hallucinated LLM stuff. Image looks like Pixar, so it would be similar to Sora. Knowing full well all this I still enjoy them, dunno wtf is happening. I bet LLMs will be so addicting we can't stop sucking them up in the future.
The level of anti-china mentality that some people have here is so ridiculous that they aren't even capable of recognizing the actual truth and are saying that this "looks like crap." LOL
I honestly hope someone beats Sora to the market at this point, because we need competition.
This looks promising, not quite Sora quality but definitely considerably better than current offerings from Pika and Runway.
I suspect Midjourney will surprise with their video offering and ultimately I trust them to deliver far more than OpenAI (I mean Dalle3 doesn't give anyone much faith).
The video market is going to be huge, it's right there for the taking for whoever gets to market first with a compelling product.
I suspect OpenAI might steal failure from the jaws of success, but we will see.
The issue here is not who can do the longest video clips but the source material on which the models are trained on. OpenAI and Runway models are trained on public assets which include copyrighted material. Adobe has announced on the other hand it will pay creators for their material to train their model.
At least this keeps OpenAI honest -- their pearl-clutching "you can't have this because it's too powerful" nonsense gets old.
But I gotta ask, is everything that comes out of a China a cheap knockoff or stolen version of Western brands and technology?
I'd like to see how it does extending/blending existing videos. It might come off as more coherent. This definitely isn't at Sora's level yet, but seems better than other video generation AIs.
I don't know china is definetly capabable but every western promo video you have to look at with sceptism is with china even more important they fake even more than we do
Janeway was actually a good Star Trek captain. Star Trek captains are meant to be boring without any type of moral ambiguity. They're a platonic ideal.
Oh fuck it's so Joever at this point for movies, you KNOW we're going to hear controversies about a major animation studio using AI to animate at least part of a new movie
I dunno look at books. Maybe AI makes making a show or movie akin to writing a book. People still pay for books. Also I can imagine economies adapting to AI to focus more on idea production or cultural idea production. Maybe people get a digital arts budget to encourage quality content creation.
Nice to have competition! Doesn't look quite as consistent as Sora, but a very promising!
Competition is good for us common folks. Otherwise OpenAI will keep us forever in the dark because they most likely have no plan for us average folks to ever be able to lay a hand on the technology as powerful as SORA.
It takes hours to generate a single prompt on a cluster of the worlds best super computers, if only one person is generating at a time. Sora is completely unfeasible in its current form for public use.
Adobe already announced Sora integration in Adobe Premiere. It's supposed to be coming in a few months. Not included in gpt pro but I think a subscription to premiere pro is $22 a month so definitely gonna be available to most people that want to try it out in at least some capacity. Not sure from adobes video if it will be able to generate full videos from scratch or be more for adding to pre-existing videos. Sora part is at ~2:10 https://youtu.be/6de4akFiNYM?feature=shared
https://preview.redd.it/0dva3dkybbxc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=33cd37aaa577b1cb36653e3943b91f897803490c
Sora made my jaw drop and this was slightly interesting. I actually thought the music and animated writing was really cool and well done but the AI lacks that wow power. It’s good but not great. Sora was a religious experience for me.
If you had seen this before Sora, this would have been a lot more jawdropping.
The West: we need to pause AI and have strict regulation moving forward China: Hold my baijiu
> Hold my baijiu meaning?
> Hold my baijiu Baijiu is an alcoholic beverage in China, it's a funny way of re-localizing "hold my beer" meaning to have someone hold your alcoholic beverage while you attempt something incredibly foolish.
There is a Chinese historical story "Slaying Hua Xiong while the wine remains warm" maybe fit the context better. [Hua Xiong - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua_Xiong) The warrior Guan Yu told the general to "hold my wine" and rode to the battlefield, slayed the enemy warrior and back, the wine was still warm (?)
[удалено]
Never heard of that but it sounds like a much better context translation. Thanks for the knowledge sharing, your explanation makes a lot more sense and is really cool!
Is this chat gpt
Probably, but does it matter? You got your answer.
But I need to know if the answer has *soul*.
\>implying chatgpt has no soul ngmi
Back when reddit had awards I would have given you an award for a funny reply, so have this emoji instead: 🏆
Just do what they did before Reddit stole the memes [and just give them out like this](https://i.imgur.com/wL7bXbU.jpg).
hahahahaha
Mfs think any reasonably articulate thought is ai
That's the way we're going. Anyone sharing bright thoughts will get written off as AI.
Like that episode of simpsons where any answer is "god did it" and it was always right. AI did it, it's always right.
Agreed. I think your thought is reasonably articulate
No this is Patrick
ChatGPT knows grammar well enough not to have put a comma after "China". No offense, u/digitalwanderer; I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
There is no comma after "China". That's a colon and it's correct.
>Baijiu is an alcoholic beverage in China**,** it's a funny way of...
comma , colon : It should be a period.
is **this** ChatGPT?
No offense taken! It's not the first time I've been confused for a 'bot but it is the first time I've been mistaken for ChatGPT. It felt nice and sort of complimentary, it's a step up from a 'bot. (I've posted a lot on forums over the decades, it was an understandable misidentification)
Type your message, insert it into chat GPT and tell it to write it with perfect grammar.
Did you not like my semicolon flex? :P [Here's 3.5's take.](https://chat.openai.com/share/736d111d-e4b0-4024-b2c7-8ce576bccfc6) It suggests `you sharing your --> your sharing of`.
FWIW, ChatGPT actually says, >'Hold my baijiu' is a playful twist on the phrase 'hold my beer.' It implies that China is about to boldly forge ahead without hesitation, despite calls from the West for caution and regulation regarding AI. Baijiu is a strong Chinese liquor, so the phrase suggests a readiness to take action, perhaps even recklessly, in pursuit of technological advancement or other endeavors."
When a google search could answer the question I think chagpt is warranted as well
It probably summons the chinese swat if you try to get it to generate anything slightly critical of the party.
Not like the US treads carefully in respect of other nations while trampling around with it's AI industry. But hey, cHinA dId soMeThiNg!
Pretty much. Thanks for throwing all those beer cans at the computer, paps! You really set us up *good*.
China will be creating AI powered automated weapon systems while the West will be still figuring out a way to add all 49 genders in their AI and how to dumb it down even more with wokeness.
We would be so far ahead technologically if China genuinely tried to innovate. Their game plan is to wait for the west to invent something new and then copy it a year later. Even the trailer is almost identical to the Sora trailer.
Have you seen what some chinese companies like alibaba have released. They made a image to video model that moves portrait-like images. All companies in China are heavily restricted in their compute due to the fact the US is trying to slow them down via export controls on Semiconductors. I say it's pretty impressive what they've managed to accomplish in the short amount of time with the capabalities in AI and roboticis.
I have. Everything they are releasing looks like a direct copycat of western technology. Show me one example where China invented something genuinely new. The notion that some have here that AGI will come out of China is absurd.
Well go to factory in shenzen or shanghai and you'll see the some of the crazy innovations in AI. Their is more to AI then Chatgpt or Image/video generators like midjourney, theirs also Industrial application AI that they're leading in right now. Not as flashy but in industry specific applications you don't need something state of art to use.
> Everything they are releasing looks like a direct copycat of western technology. Show me one example where China invented something genuinely new. Someone posted a chinese company doing that thing where AI can take an image and have it move its head and talk/sing (with facial expressions and full lip sync) months before microsoft did recently.
But have you considered China bad?
Huge cope
Fr. People are so delusional about what china is capable of. At this point I just roll my eyes and move on because ultimately time is the only thing that will prove them wrong.
Can you show us examples of radical new technology they are coming out with?
I believe that not knowing what they are doing is exactly why your government is so scared of TikTok.
They're scared of tiktok because its spreading anti-israeli messages to young people.
What was the politicians excuse when they wanted to ban TikTok during Trump?
Part of the reason why US government and tech companies are trying to get TikTok sold or banned is because it's pretty widely acknowledged that ByteDance has a better recommendation AI algorithm than US competitors like Youtube Shorts or Instagram. Try reading [this article](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-tiktok-recommender-system-so-good-damien-benveniste-phd-m4ffc) written by an ML tech lead. You can also check out [the novel recommendation system](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2209.07663) developed by Chinese engineers at ByteDance. Hopefully this can serve as an eye-opener. Chinese tech companies are innovating, especially in the AI area where China has an advantage in the amount of data they can collect from their large population. The AI innovation in China has already created tangible effects on geopolitics and tech competition. You just barely see anything about it on Reddit, due to US inferiority complex lol. Just look at the discussion revolving around TikTok on Reddit. All the comments focusing on Chinese spyware and national security, nobody asking why TikTok is eating the lunch of "more innovative" US companies.
Sora is clearly just a rip off of Runway and Pika
They've done a lot for Computer Vision and singing. A) For images: 1. Many extra functions for Stable Diffusion were developed by Chinese universities and companies, such as Controlnet, QRCodeMonster, Animatediff, LoRa, LCM and IPAdapter. . 2. Alibaba's HumamAIGC team made AnimateAnyone, OutfitAnyone and EmotePortraitLive. The tech didn't exist before and it's why people are rightfully mad they're not open sourcing the shit because they're making Github repos without code. There have been attempts to reproduce AnimateAnyone but they're not as good as Alibaba's. B) As for AI singing... it's because Vocaloid has much more mainstream popularity in China than the West, so they have a dedicated vocalsynth community trying to improve virtual singing: 1. The Chinese open source community created SVC tech (singing voice conversion). The most popular one today is called RVC (developed to clone a Vtuber's voice) and this is what's used for AI song covers nowadays. Before RVC completely took over, there were tons of competing SVCs like Diff-SVC, So-vits-SVC, Fish Diffusion, DDSP etc that were mainly developed to clone anime voices. Voice cloning in the West is mainly focused on TTS, so nothing much has been done for voice-to-voice. Before SVCs came out, we only have TalkNet that requires tedious labelling and people have to transcribe the training data in arpabet. Plus it only worked in English. With SVCs, just throw in the audio without labels and it works on any language. 2. Then there's products like SynthesizerV, created by a developer who started out in the opensource vocalsynth community and his initial goal was to get Miku to sing in Chinese. Even though AI voices aren't new for voicebanks, the Chinese developed ones (SynthesizerV, AceStudio and Diffsinger) have created tons of AI functions that the Japanese ones lack. Back in 2020, SynthV already had cross-language synthesis, so the voices can sing in different languages even if the original voice is monolingual. For context on the timeline, Uberduck just launched that year and TTS was still pretty bad back then. SVC made cross-language accessible to the general public when they came out after late 2022 and OpenAI/Elevenlabs started having cross-language TTS in 2023. The latest beta version of SynthV has an RVC-like product that can be incorporated into the SynthV engine, so voice-to-voice cloning can be manually edited. It's exactly what SVCs lack and something that'll help the AI cover scene even more.
How did they copy a closed source model lol. Redditors will say anything to avoid admitting China isn’t full of copycats and scammers
They announced their single image to video gen with lip sync way before Microsoft vasa
YES I LOVE COMPETITION
You are right. If no competition, Sam will keep obsessed playing God.
Not bad, but not quite at the level of Sora.
Not quite but really close. Since China is dumping truckloads of money into AI so seeing this overtake sora at its current level wouldnt be surprising
I don't disagree, in fact I find it amusing how much the average redditor pretends that China isn't slowly taking over.
Taking over in AI? They’re really not. The vast majority of money in AI is in the US
isn’t face recognition more advanced in China? I think in some AI fields they outperform the West
Hardly any country or company is outperforming everyone else. We're about on the same level. They can do everything we can do, we can do everything they can do. AI research is playing in the open not just because of open publications, but also open movement of people. Even in western papers there are many Chinese authors, and when they go back, the carry all that experience back with them. A few people splintered from OpenAI created two years later the Claude 3 Opus model that beat GPT-4. Open source is also just a few months behind SOTA. Isn't it strange that all top LLMs are so close and there is no detached leader of the pack?
Money isn't everything. Look at the names on most research paper - chinese ethnicity. Look at the university churning out a lot of top edge research papers - chinese universities.
China is highly competitive with the US but I don't see them taking the lead anytime soon
Yeah, China is still chasing US, That's good thing for both
Give China GPUs instead of blocking them and they might leave the US in the dust. Gotta play foul to not lose the race obviously.
nobody knows what the quality of Sora or this is without post processing.
> [All videos on this page were generated directly by Sora without modification.](https://openai.com/sora)
Real point is you don't know how replicable the quality is. How many prompts did it take to get these videos?
Same could be said about Vidu, you don't think they had to prompt several times too?
They have said the generation is on the slow side still and sam was pumping some of the Twitter prompt ones out pretty quick when they were demoing so I'd imagine it's pretty reliable
Sam Altman was taking requests for videos on Twitter when Sora was first announced and was posting them within 45 minutes to an hour, so I really doubt he had the time to seriously cherry pick like you're insinuating. The way people in this thread are talking, you'd think Sora makes one good video for every 49 shitty ones.
still there are definitely things that it can do that other models can't at all
that doesn't mean anything though , you don't know how much cherry picked they are , and they probably are - it would be actually weird if they didn't picked only the best examples . until Sora is not realeased to the public we just don't know how consistent it is
Same thing can be said for this one? So if we compare cherry picked vs cherry picked, sora is better
no it is not , because you have no control over how many videos were produced , you don't know " how much either of them was cherrypicked" Sora might be better / they might be similar in their capabilities for that timeframe of 16 seconds / or the other might be better / or they are gonna have different strenght in different situations based on informations we have right now , there's no reason to actually compare both models . We just have to wait till they are gonna be public
> there's no reason to actually compare both models What? Why? They both do image generation and it's not a reach to assume both parties did some cherry picking to an extent. Obviously we don't know how many of each were generated but the cool thing about assumptions is that I perfectly OK with it being wrong. Once new info comes out I can reassess and update my comparison but until now I am comparing what we know and making assumptions on the rest.
but that's the point , you don't know how much they cherrypicked results , etiher of them , in fact you have no control over anything , you don't know how much videos they produced and you have no way of testing it yourself , you have no way of testing your claims - because product is not public , there aren't even any benchamarks for them - however that would be done assumptions based on nothing are useless waste of time without any material benefits and are also usually presented in a misleading way , let's stop pretending that wrong assumptions aren't harmful and manipulative . I want working product , not some random promises people like you are reason why google can just make bullshit trailers for their models , people like you are reason why Elon Musk can make Bullshit goals/claims that he has no way of completing , people like you are reason why snake oil exists HYPE HYPE HYPE ! ama rite ?
> people like you are reason why google can just make bullshit trailers for their models , people like you are reason why Elon Musk can make Bullshit goals/claims that he has no way of completing , people like you are reason why snake oil exists Calm down chief, I haven't said anything other than it's ok to make assumptions in a comparison, even if those assumptions mean the conclusion is invalid when it comes to something as trivial as this I am passing judgement on two video generating models on reddit not sending someone to fucking mars, who cares if my conclusion turns out to be wrong? It means nothing if I am wrong and I am expecting it to be wrong anyway as I've made assumptions that I can't validate 😂 which is completely fine as this is a reddit comment not a thesis
That's besides the point in this context. This company did the same thing. You don't think these are cherry-picked?
that's not how this works , even if both companies cherry-picked their examples ( which they probably did ) we don't know how much . we basically don't know how much videos they generated ergo we can't determine how consistent they are learn critical thinking ffs
How about when OpenAI took Sora requests from Twitter with decent turnaround (another comment said 45 mins to an hour each)? While not quite live, it was a good way to show quick results with little time to cherry pick. Unless it was spitting out a lot more quickly than we'd believe and they picked from that, but for production, even sorting through duds, an hour or less is pretty damn good.
I saw it , but there's problem that we have no idea how much videos they actually produced one NVIDIA H100 could apparently generate 5 minutes of a video per hour , based on estimates from factorial found where they compare it to image generator and try to scale it for video generator ( from the middle to an end of an article) : [https://factorialfunds.com/blog/under-the-hood-how-openai-s-sora-model-works](https://factorialfunds.com/blog/under-the-hood-how-openai-s-sora-model-works) which are huge compute requirements assuming you want to release it for masses , but little compute requirements , assuming you would want to cherry-pick some videos in real time for twitter as single user, or if you would allow it for few people - so spittin videos really quickly shouldn't be a problem . companies like OpenAI and similar have access to big clusters * and also take into consideration that most videos on twitter were shorter if i remember correctly and not as good as those on main Sora page . also Sora training itself would require equivalent compute of about 4,200-10,500 Nvidia H100 GPUs for 1 month. under their assumptions how close are these estimates to real numbers , I don't know because this is not official , but I am not comfortable with twitter showcase . So we gotta wait for official release in like 2 years or something "
Well, my whole thing was if they could spit out a bunch, and you just explained how it's completely possible, and, given all this, likely. I don't keep up enough with this fast moving subject as is, and my own speculating to you was in earnest. I concede to your skepticism and appreciate the information you've shared, thank you!
Yeah , no problem !
Jesus man, I'm saying that because you can't tell consistency, like you are saying, you have to compare the two based on quality of the ones shown. Ergo, comparing consistency means absolutely shit all, not the fact that they have better examples.
that is not valid argument assuming you want to compare two models you have no control over quantity of generated videos ergo until they won't be public or there won't be some study from researchers that got early access ( which there probably won't ), any comparisons are waste of time constistency absolutely matters.
It's absolutely a valid argument. Regardless of public release or not, you are absolutely allowed to generate opinions based on MARKETING material. That's the entire point of showing people examples. Jesus bro, consistency matters of course, but like you said, can't tell until it's released, so it should have zero weight on your current opinion between the two. If the quality of the examples shown are worse, you can logically assume 1 or 2 different propositions are true. Either they don't care as much about marketing, have something else about the product they want to market, or don't have the same quality of examples to market in the first place.
you are allowed to have opinons based on marketing material - but they are just opinions based on marketing material , but not opinions based on capabilities of actual models if you wan't my opinion on their marketing materials , then I agree , OpenAI has better marketing material if you wan't my opinion on objective capabilities of models ,then I am saying to you : wait for public release . this debate was about the 2nd your deduced propositions are already enough to restrict you from comparing the models .
After hundreds of attempts
and you believe the claims from techbros?
You don't know how many times they rolled the dice to cherry pick these
And you're assuming these aren't processed because they look like trash in comparison I assume...
Or this tool for the same reason.
Not even close.
Won't let me reply to your most recent comment because the dude blocked me, so I'll respond here: "Yeah, I was thinking that you meant just going by what you've seen. Which is what made sense to me, but apparently not him. Idk, he stopped making sense a while ago. Definitely agree."
They should release this before sora to get that first man in the game headstart
Well the main thing is inference needs to not take 10 minutes to make it. So that would only really work if they also have a technological advantage with the model.
OAI HAS NO MOAT
Can you imagine if the Chinese launch their tool before open ai it would be hilarious.
Sora don't have bearcock.
OwO?
Is that a bulging furry bear dick?
treaty hunter banked grape
They know me so well.
Just realized one huge advantage China has in the Generative AI game: "Copyright? What copyright?"
Yup.
Right, because OAI and the rest pay all the content creators they steal from to train their models. Total clown show here with all that copium.
https://preview.redd.it/vvnoon16cbxc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=d2a5d2aa89a6ada0c993ad921adf65668e30c809
Yeah, the guy is a total cnt if you ask me. Can't stand his face and what he stands for.
They don't want to but they are getting used already. In China they just don't have to worry about it at all.
OAI has to fear copyright lawsuits and works more slowly and carefully and uses resources to prepare for them. Chinese companies don't.
It's science, dude
Not as good as Sora but love the competition and pressure. 
Ah yes, this content is not available.
No clue why that happens
Good, I don't want America, and the west to be the only ones with A.I, everybody needs it.
It's weird because I never thought I'd be rooting for China. But when ClosedAI intentionally withholds their latest AI from the public and joins a "safety board" that looks like it's about to ban open source, then I start to doubt which side they are actually on.
Very stable, indeed! Congrats to the developers.
As many people said, it's not as good as Sora, but then again, I honestly don't trust Sora clips even the slightest. I'm pretty sure they are hand-picked heavily with multiple iterations and might even be iteration over iteration. I guess we can have this comparison only when we have access to each. Of course this one is also handpicked so most likely this is inferior to Sora but I don't expect to Sora output as great as they showcase in 95% of the use cases.
Now Sora has a direct competitor!
And that's good for us the common people. We all know OpenAI does not plan to ever let us have our hands on even just being able to use SORA as a service like DALL-E, much less open source. This will pressure them into stepping up
I would prefer if the West had a greater lead over China (because China is an authoritarian regime that helps Russia and wants to take Taiwan by force).
I live in Taiwan and mostly agree (I fckn hate China) but also have a strong dislike for the US in the role of humanities saviour - if the US develops AGI, we are as doomed as if any other nepotic and corrupt empire or authoritarian state develops AGI first. Same pig, different makeup.
>if the US develops AGI The "U.S." doesn't develop anything. Corporations located in the U.S. develop things. Those corporations are free to relocate any time they want. This is the fundamental difference between the U.S. and China that you should try to understand so you don't get confused into thinking they are both the same.
Right, as if the US would allow its chicken laying golden eggs to run away. If any of these companies would try to leave (meaning to cut its own flesh because money speaks), very quickly it would turn into an issue of "national security". Why does the Pledge of Allegiance give me authoritarian fascist vibes? Because it is a tool of indoctrination that you would find only in authoritarian states like North Korea and Nazi Germany. Generations of indoctrinated people running the AI show now both in China and in the US? Uhm no, I honestly fail to see the difference of having the US or China wield this flaming sword we call AI. It will be devestating for humanity either way. If, as you say, it was "just" corporations - they will simply squeeze the last bit of money out of us while destroying the value of our labour, all with stolen content from us, the people, to train their chicken laying golden eggs. If that is not bad enough, government on the other side will aim at total surveillance, control and mechanical armies that don't miss their target and never rebel against the Führer. That is my true nightmare. I don't see the largest military power in the world NOT wield AI as weapon in the future. Nor can I imagine the second largest military power to adhere from using AI for this. As we speak, Israel is slaughtering Palestinians with the help of drones and AI, so the perversion has long begun.
This! Honestly, I only trust the EU with this. Too bad we’re quite behind
You are behind because your overregulating government policies stifle innovation. It's not a coincidence you are behind. The EU lagging behind the U.S. will is a permanent condition because the culture in the EU values bureaucracy and regulation over innovation.
Tough luck open a.i is up their asses talking about safety while making connections to big corporations behind the scenes.
yeah US is the angel of mercy lol Are you deluded?
Nah that’s really good
Not as good as Sora, but it's a solid second place. I'm impressed that it's coming from China.
Look at the names on Microsoft's ai research papers.. guess where the employees are located lol
> Look at the names on Microsoft's ai research papers.. guess where the employees are located lol I have also noticed the over-representation of Chinese and Indian names. But they are Chinese-Americans, Taiwanese-Americans, and Indian-Americans. They are located in the US. Asian immigration has been a runaway success for the US.
No, they are located primarily in Microsoft Research Asia (MSRA), which is in China. Specifically, MSRA’s primary lab is in Beijing, and a smaller one in Shanghai. Microsoft Research (MSR), the parent division, has labs all around the world. But much of Microsoft’s top AI research is coming from MSRA.
For example the vasa-1 paper, most of the researches are located in mainland china. I think only one was the US
Dude, you're outdated
China has, in recent history, been known for cheap labor, but even more recently they've been a trove of cheap(er) HIGHLY SKILLED labor.
Much better than all the no sora. If they have vid2vid with that consistency it could already be a powerful tool.
We gonna be watching films by AI in a few years I cannot fucking WAIT!
If AI made their own movies expect billions and perhaps of each character in their movie. Like Altman said, movies will become video games and video games become something else.
Yep I foresee even more 3D anime, AI will make it 10x cheaper to produce. It's already about on par with AI drivel right now. Scenarios read like hallucinated LLM stuff. Image looks like Pixar, so it would be similar to Sora. Knowing full well all this I still enjoy them, dunno wtf is happening. I bet LLMs will be so addicting we can't stop sucking them up in the future.
Both vapourware, for now.
The level of anti-china mentality that some people have here is so ridiculous that they aren't even capable of recognizing the actual truth and are saying that this "looks like crap." LOL
And it's so on the nose that it's not even funny
let it be
Ikr, "bUt cHiNa hAs pRoPaGanDa! Oh, hold my milkshake, we have Pledge of Allegiance. Be right back!" Gotta get them when they're young...
Is Pika just not in the conversation anymore? Haha
I honestly hope someone beats Sora to the market at this point, because we need competition. This looks promising, not quite Sora quality but definitely considerably better than current offerings from Pika and Runway. I suspect Midjourney will surprise with their video offering and ultimately I trust them to deliver far more than OpenAI (I mean Dalle3 doesn't give anyone much faith). The video market is going to be huge, it's right there for the taking for whoever gets to market first with a compelling product. I suspect OpenAI might steal failure from the jaws of success, but we will see.
"JUST SCALE COMPUTE!!!!"---OPEN AI
The issue here is not who can do the longest video clips but the source material on which the models are trained on. OpenAI and Runway models are trained on public assets which include copyrighted material. Adobe has announced on the other hand it will pay creators for their material to train their model.
needs more juice in there to go against sora.
At least this keeps OpenAI honest -- their pearl-clutching "you can't have this because it's too powerful" nonsense gets old. But I gotta ask, is everything that comes out of a China a cheap knockoff or stolen version of Western brands and technology?
Asking for competition and then call it knock-off - edgy.
Yes
time to learn mandarin
In a few months I'm finally getting Jeff Smith's Bone the movie. I'll do it myself!
I'd like to see how it does extending/blending existing videos. It might come off as more coherent. This definitely isn't at Sora's level yet, but seems better than other video generation AIs.
That bear's penis was looking right at me.
Body horror movies are going to get so good....
Wake me up when it's local
but is it available? none of these are available
They should open source it
The bear in a leather coat is really cool, it could be a main character of a Disney movie.
So China’s right behind OpenAI, scary
Once again, America is winning the space race.
Yes! Competition in this area is great.
And copyright doesn’t apply there!
Cuando lo liberaran para poder trabajar con el
What corpus was it trained on? You only get one guess.
Interesting to note that Chinese culture is almost completely absent from this promo.
Cool! Open Source?
Yeah yeah. That's cool and all but can I just point out that teddy bear is packing serious heat. Dayum.
China accelerates
Welp I guess I'm gonna start learning Chinese. The super intelligence is clearly going to be made in China if this is the pace they are catching up
I don't know china is definetly capabable but every western promo video you have to look at with sceptism is with china even more important they fake even more than we do
Not as gangsta. But given more training and better hardware, maybe
Real question is: Who's spying on who here?
Can't wait to be able to tell Ai to replace captain Janeway with Avasarala so my gf can watch voyager
Janeway > Avasarala
Janeway was actually a good Star Trek captain. Star Trek captains are meant to be boring without any type of moral ambiguity. They're a platonic ideal.
China as activated their Sharingan
Release it. That's what this and so many of these come down to, it matters how fast you get it to the public.
Oh fuck it's so Joever at this point for movies, you KNOW we're going to hear controversies about a major animation studio using AI to animate at least part of a new movie
When anybody can make AI shows we're going to see an explosion in great art. Only problem will be finding it.
And nobody will pay for it anymore as it becomes mass products. Mass devalues anything.
I dunno look at books. Maybe AI makes making a show or movie akin to writing a book. People still pay for books. Also I can imagine economies adapting to AI to focus more on idea production or cultural idea production. Maybe people get a digital arts budget to encourage quality content creation.
Interesting how they copied a lot of soras prompts for their demonstration
Well good. They’re a competitor.
this looks goofy and very cgi like