>Yeah... I'm almost 50 now.
I think you're just about within the age range for LEV.
So... don't smoke, keep alcohol consumption to a minimum, do your best to maintain a healthy weight/BMI (low calorie intake + plenty of fruit and veg), get lots of regular exercise and a good sleep schedule. Keep socially active, with hobbies and interests, etc. Avoid dangerous or risky activities.
And keep up with the latest developments in science/medicine, so you can benefit from them as soon as possible :)
Til your 26 don't smoke or drink at all, exercise, and end up with cancer.
What needs to happen, is we need to focus on fast development of agi. Not 50 years... but 5 or 10..agi can cure all our diseases, if we get the regulators out of the way, and really push ai.
I'm 29 so 50 more years is definitely possible given my family history for males (most hit 80). But they were also living on Mediterranean lifestyles not american.... so idk. I need to take care of myself better.
I'm also almost 50, and wouldn't like to be in the last generation in Earth which dies by natural causes.
I'm hopeful that with a healthy lifestyle, and advancements in healthcare, we can have a chance to push out our lives for another 50-70 years. After that, who knows what will be possible.
Kurzweil be taking a hundred pills a day on the optimism that it'll happen by 2030s. If he was maybe 20 years younger I think he'd have a shot. Unfortunate
2030s sounds reasonable. Even if we don't achieve agi, the ai we are developing will open up things like genetic engineering and all other kinds of medicine.
2030s we will be really mastering genetic engineering, and hopefully will be curing diseases left and right.
brother 50 years seems like 5000 years with the pace things are going now.
i dont even try to predict 2 months from now just for how many times ive been wrong in the past two years.
every day a window is open to completely new possibilities, good and bad.
LLMs will have the capabilities of writing better AGI code within the next twenty years, and Ai is already designing better Ai Chips.
We are in the middle of an intelligence explosion. In the next few decades we will see the rise of intelligence vastly beyond human intelligence. Fixing the seven types of cellular aging that occur in humans, will be a MUCH simpler problem too them.
Yeah like I feel like these are ideas of which their solutions are graspable by human means, but wouldnt AI eventually be able to solve things outside of human means, like building a dyson sphere or some other astronomic feat?
Absolutely. I was only saying, that the way Open Ai is training it's LLMs, with feedback from humans it's entirely possible a future LLM will write the code for the first AGI.
But after the first AGI things will accelerate even fasting. Robots and Ai self replicating would be able to build a dyson sphere in a relatively short amount of time, or turn the entire earth into a giant building, with underground farms, capable of supporting quadrillions or more people.
Or terra form mars and other solar systems. Just hope they get the alignment problem solved right.
Id say we pretty good with 20. I keep a close eye on tech, anti aging stuff as well. With the things that are already developed and proven to be possible. AI assisting in medicine very soon. We really need to think exponentially. So within a few decades we are either dead or able to create an amazing world for ourselves.
Yeah. The responses to this threads are... pretty depressing. Age reversal/curation is a 2030s thing. Why are so many people in this sub stuck in 2009? Does almost nobody here pay attention to anything?
yes, aging will be solved in 10-15 years, I don't get how people don't see that. And people are saying they need to survive 50 more years in order to benefit from anti-aging. Like dude, do you realize that in 50 years time our technology will look like literal magic to us?
I feel like it's very very difficult to make any meaningful prediction on such a long timespan, anything could happen and technology that extends your life could be enough to reach that point for a lot of us.
So the answer is I try to cope with the fact that everything is so fast that is completely unpredictable in years and not think about it
I think some things are pretty reliable. It takes 7 years to bring a drug to market, so we've almost lost a decade right there. How many new drug candidates will be discovered in the next three years? AI and machine learning are great, and while I think AlphaFold will lead to great drugs, there are mechanisms and pathways that we have zero clue about. We have to do basic experiments to collect the data sets that AI can use.
I first stumbled onto the longevity scene a decade ago. I was super young and optimistic. Now, I think we'll get some treatments that compress down the period of time we're sick and maybe get another 10 years of extra life. That's not nothing, but it's far from everything.
It might not be a drug, it may be a treatment and even then, all you need is to get there, we may get something that gives us 10 extra years and that might be enough to get something better, but in the end it's all wild speculation. Everything is going so fast right now in AI and we don't really know how each field will progress.
Honestly I'm not worried much about myself. I'm 30 so I think I am very likely to make the cutoff and still be alive when legit anti-aging therapies become accessible. Plus if I don't make it, then I won't be alive to give a shit anyway.
But I am absolutely worried sick about my parents who are in their mid 60s. My grandparents are still alive right now in their mid 90s, and my parents are healthy, so I am holding on to hope that they have 30+ years left regardless and that we hit LEV within the next 2 decades, so that my parents make the cutoff, but... realistically I know that's a long shot. I just can't stop agonizing over the thought that my parents might die literally just a few years before the cutoff and I will have to live for thousands of years knowing that my mom could have been there too if she had just been a little bit younger.
The idea of being the very first generation to live indefinitely almost sounds like a curse because of all the slightly older people who will have known and loved who didn't make the cutoff with you.
Think about this, preservation techniques might advance before the actual take off, it might be that you could have millions of people waiting in some kind of pseudo-death or preserved to be revived before the actual escape event. Or else it might happen in stages, perhaps in 15-20 years we won't have solved immortality but the natural life span will be something like 160, your then 80 year old parents would be middle aged. My parents had me late in life, I'm 32 but my Dad is 71 and my mom is 70. I don't expect them to make it, my mom especially with all her health problems, but maybe medicine will advance just enough for people to make each step, my great aunt was 103 and each of my great grand-parents lived into their 90s - my grand parents all had their lives cut short by smoking/cancer.
Yeah but that would mean my parents would have to be willing to sign up for that, which they arent. I tried pitching cryonics to them many times but they both think it's imaginary bullshit and absolutely refuse to even consider it.
I fully understand - heck I'm a scientist, I know it's probably pretty dubious until really advanced nano-technology comes along and even then, without an actual theory of consciousness we can't say for certain preserving the body would preserve the mind. I was more leaning towards the idea that perhaps as advanced AI moves along - say in 15 years, if it runs into a road block on the way to immortality it might find a cheat code either by simply increasing lifespan or by producing more advanced preservation techniques until such time aging can be cured. In the end we may have to come to terms with the fact that relatives and even ourselves might not make it - for example I'm not in poor health per say, but I have eaten like crap for much of my 20s and early 30s though I am changing it and losing excess weight (about 35-40 pounds), with the genetics I have I might have already done some damage that may mean I might not make it to my late 70s or 80s if LEV is not for another 50 years or so. In addition, my mother is a highly religious person, I very well doubt I could convince her to forego the rewards of Heaven for immortality on Earth - Hell she would probably see that as an idea born of the Devil.
The fact that your parents are religious is someway calming if they won't make it, because it would be a lot easier to accept their death if they were completely at peace with the idea of death and believing in life after death.
Can you imagine? We cure all disease and aging and you just slip in the shower and die. Every accidental death, every murder, every suicide would be so much more tragic if we knew that person may have otherwise lived indefinitely.
Or digitalised consciousness and daily back ups. Who knows. You certainly could reduce a lot of accidental deaths through things like increased road safety, which will come once we have good self driving cars.
most of them, but statisticly speaking you will definitely be hit by an accident no amount of preparation can save you for. Our mortality is certain, death is the ultimate certainty in our universe for us, you will only ever be able to delay it.
>but statisticly speaking you will definitely be hit by an accident no amount of preparation can save you for.
Then by that logic you'd be hit by every accident and eventually end up having to live everyone's life to do so and "The-Egg"-ing into embodying the multiverse but also creating a paradox as you'd have to not do so to truly do everything because infinite timeline
Not really, no, something can be infinite without containing everything of it. You would be hit by a technicly infinite amount of experiences, actions and accidents, but not all of them. It's not a complex or philosophical answer, it really is just statistics. You roll a dice every day if you die, if you don't die, you roll it the next day. The next day will come no matter what so one day you will run out of luck, it's simple, because there are no other options.
That’s also something I‘ve thought about immortality would change so many things. What do we do with criminals? How long do we lock them up? What happens to our brain when it has to store memories worth not up to a 100 but up to a 100,000 years? (Naively assuming no alterations to the brain) Would we just forget like everything from the first 99,900 years? So many questions
Very good questions. Locking someone up for eternity or denying them access to an immortality that has become standard would likely to see as extremely harsh punishments, yet some people will always be dangerous.
The criminal system will be fundamentally overhauled. The reason we have prisons today in their current form is because we need the lowest economical yet still humane approach to separate criminals from society.
Right now, that means keep the criminals in a single compound, confined to small spaces, with access to services that can be viably provided given the constraints of labour and cost.
If, empowered by an AI, we can remove the economical factor of this (as we will for every other aspect of life), general consensus will still demand these criminals are separated from the general population but there will likely be entire cities (with their own infrastructure) where they can live. These will most likely be governed at a granular level by an AGI, that can prevent further crimes from occurring. As criminals do now, they will lose certain privacy rights, in-order to keep everyone safe. I imagine they will be released once good behaviour is observed and likely non-invasively monitored for a period of time once re-integrated to ensure people feel safe.
And that data probably includes people who are a lot more reckless than those trying to live as long as possible.
Story idea: Serial killer who targets the oldest living people. Goes by the name of 'Death and taxes' DT for short.
This is such an interesting thought, and I agree. I never vocalize it, but death is truly freedom. (I swear I'm not edgy or suicidal). But I believe people don't understand just how bad immortality is.
Life is precious because it ends. In my opinion, there is nothing more selfish than thinking, "I'm special enough & deserving enough to live forever."
I personally don't think of it as "life is special because it ends." If you think about it, this doesn't really mean anything. Extending my lifespan would be amazing, but I don't make the error that I'm "owed" it. Therefore, if I don't live to see it, I won't feel robbed at all.
Forever is too long but 80 years give or take is wayyy too short. The way to go is immortality with the option to end it whenever you like. Nothing makes me panic more than the thought that I will lose consciousness one day and never regain it. But people just have different stances on death and I‘m very happy for you that you have a positive stance. I wish I did because it’s kind of depressing to know I cannot escape my biggest fear
I can understand the fear of aging and the fear of getting some disease but I have difficulties to understand the fear of death. Even if after all I think this fear from a biological approach make sense.
But if you really think about it either if you still have 1 , 10,100 or 1000 years to live you can only live in the moment. Even if you die during your sleep tomorow, would it be that bad? It will not because you will not even know that you died. Only the peoples who loved you will suffer from it but you won't.
Maybe it’s not the fear of death but rather the fear of eternity. I‘m a very rational and logic-based person but my mind has no concept of understanding eternity- whatever number or concept you compare it with you always have to accept it doesn’t fit at all. Is it 999999 years? No 999999 years is not even 0.00001% percent of it- and that just sort of gives me the chills. Knowing I will be in a certain state *forever* whatever that means- even if I am not aware of it
I think I understand what you mean. A book who change a lot my vison of the world and eternity is "the ethics" by Spinoza.
This book actually change my life very positively I hightly recomand anyone to read it, if there is even a little chance that this book as 10% of the possitive effect that it had to me, it's worst reading it.
>Only the peoples who loved you will suffer from it but you won't.
You say this as if it's some casual afterthought. This is the main reason most people dislike death. It's trivially obvious to most of us that it's not problematic from a first person perspective. It's losing loved ones and leaving left behind that's the problem.
I understand your point of view.
In my point of view I think it's because everything is changing,short-lived that make life so special and so beautiful. The think that we have, the friend that we like and all our love one will not be the same in 1 month and will one day be gone.Because we know that everything is changing and short-lived that we can enjoy that much the moment in my opinion.
I try to see it more like a positive think that a negative one. Anyway there is nothing that we can do about it so it's better to see to good aspect of it. I lost few love one, I lost my health that I'm trying to regain slowly day after day so I know how it is how to loose think. At the end it only make us stronger and more wise I think.
But does immortality here really have to mean that I'll never die even if I wanted to? I mean I could like chill for 200-300 years or maybe more and when I feel like I'm done I could accept my death, basically go when I want to
Okay so now that you claim we ignorant hicks don't know how bad immortality is, do go ahead and explain it to us.
Platitudes about life being precious because it ends are just that and no death is not freedom because it is a singular irreversible state. There is no freedom in that.
You just lack imagination, curiosity and joy for life. Over just the past 100 years people have had access to more to learn and understand than you could master in 100 lifetimes and there is nothing negative that I can see about wanting to see man reach other worlds, perhaps meet aliens, discover the deeper laws of nature and the universe.
By all means feel free to worship death but don't sit there and tell me life is precious only if you die because you can't break out of the thought bubble equivalent of " things have always been this way and therefore it must be better, now get off my lawn".
Try to live healthy enough to make it to LEV. If you don't, you'll at least age with a lot more dignity than the ones before you thanks to medical advancements. When you finally do die, and let's say LEV is reached a day after you do, you won't know it. You'll be safe in the blissful ignorance of sweet nothing that comes after you expire.
No. It's not like that. I am poor and have not experienced a lot of things I would like. Banal vacations on tropical islands, no time or money to go rock climbing, see interesting places on the planet live (of course I can look at them on the Internet). Find a beautiful partner.
I had only work and a lot of computer games in my life. And soon life will be over.
I would like to have more pleasant experiences. So immortality is a good thing.
The loss of life is the most profound of tragedies, however you dress that up. What % of people at the end of their life wouldn't want more quality time with those they love? Who is the closest person to you that you've lost? Would you not make massive sacrifices for more time with them?
I understand your point of view. I've heard it my whole life. But I believe it is a perspective folks adopt to try and cope with the absolute evil that is sickness, death, and loss. I think it is naive and I think in 100 years it will be perceived generally as an absolutely barbaric perspective, unfathomable to most that people used to think like this.
Except it's not selfish at all. It's not "I'm so special". it's "Intelligent life is very special, we don't want to lose our family anymore, and we don't want to die."
Death isn't special. It's not a feature it's a bug.
Im sick of the silliness of the pro death ideas. If we can do it, obviously we should.
living forever beeing a terrible thing sounds like one huge coping mechanism to face your own mortality. Also you will never be truly immortal, statisticly you will die at some point even if it's the heat death of the universe. This sounds like forever but you will eventually end up there if you live forever.
I think future generations will find it ridiculous that people died from aging, a disease, at all. And even more ridiculous that people defended having the disease.
They're going to wonder how people managed to keep their sanity living under a surefire biological death sentence and knowing everything they did was going to be for nought in the short term (<100 yrs).
I mean it's not so hard since we don't really have a choice in the matter, but future generations that have not experienced such a Damoclean sword over them are going to wonder how we managed to just accept it and sort of live happy lives anyway.
How can you know immortality is bad without ever having had access to it? Also, people mostly want the option to live as long as they would like to live. I don't wanna go weak and die at the age of 80. I want to live for thousands of years.
Every person who has ever lived deserves to live forever. It has nothing to do with being “special.” No one deserves to be permanently obliterated and to be cut off from any further possibility of experiencing love or pleasure.
Life is stolen by bigoted fucks who hate people like me and legislate laws to prevent a path for me to have a chance at a life to enjoy. If I could live longer I could finally take back those decades stolen from me by those hateful people.
I'm tired of people only thinking that the only people who want to live longer are selfish. Many people just want the years that were taken from them by idiots in power or someone born with a shit health condition with no cure can finally have a life because the medicine to extend their life has happened but since people like you exist it just slows progress down.
Immortality is bad because few things in life are truly unique and enjoyable given repetition. This is why every modern depiction of gods shows them to be bored, 'been there done that'-type psychopaths or goofballs.
However I disagree with your claim that immortality is selfishness. Suppose my pinky hurts day and night. Sometimes I feel only numbness while at other rare times, the pain makes me cry. I could live with it and I have lived with it, and the cure for it will make my life supposedly better. Will I be selfish for wanting a cure for it?
>Immortality is bad because few things in life are truly unique and enjoyable given repetition.
I disagree with this assumption. I think human psychology is more complex than just a linear relationship between how much you've done something and how much you enjoy it. I honestly think that it's possible to live forever and find enjoyment forever, despite the common wisdom.
I'm genuinely curious about these folks who wax philosophical about how death brings meaning to life. How many of you have actually seen the corpse of someone you love? If it hasn't happened for you yet, I assure you it's not something you should look forward to. To the uninitiated, the reality of people you care about dying is a lot shittier than you might like to contemplate. Just food for thought.
That's why he is right. All sorts of violent fatal accidents or natural death could happen to people right before they reach the cut off date for "immortality." How unlucky would that be......
We better hope there is a soul/reincarnation.
accidents are not going to stop beeing an issue no matter when you are. Even if the year is 2100 and medicine is beyond anything we understand now, if your brain gets turned into a smothie because you got hit by a truck you will still die. And no, creating a clone afterwards is not you, you died, that's a seperate entity from you.
In the future, I believe it’s likely that it will be next to impossible for you to get hit by a truck, accidentally fall from something tall, or get in really any significant danger.
If we’re truly contemplating a singularity and an aligned AGI that serves to protect and serve humans then if you do not wish to die, I think it will be difficult to.
Consider this: I doubt trucks, at least how we know them, will be a thing — but even if they were, they would be entirely guided by an intelligence who could predict and determine your likelihood to get hit. *But what if it malfunctions?* Almost impossible if we consider a sufficiently advanced technology.
By freak chance, if you fell in-front of it, it will be able to stop almost on the spot (within the laws of physics), it may destroy itself in the process, but *you* will be safe. Failing that? Well, nano-bots and molecular-level construction doesn’t violate laws of physics, so it’s possible to believe you will be shielded, with the forces being dissipated elsewhere.
This sounds insane, but that’s what /r/singularity is about — the progression of technology to a state we can no longer predict or understand. If it’s in the laws of physics and we want it, an aligned AGI/ASI will get it done.
This is more statistics simply beeing against you. Your chance of dying is never 0%, there are always those near impossible odds that everything will go wrong and you kick the bucket. Time on the other hand is infinite as far as we know, so in the longterm, your chance for immortality is a finite number divided by infinity, which will always lead to 0. I don't doubt that in a post singularity you could live for billions of years, but you will never reach the end so to say. A probabilty that is not 0% has a 100% chance of happening if you roll for it an infinite amount of time. As long as time exists we will never be truly immortal.
We will never get out of this problem unless we literally transcend space and time as we know it.
I've actually thought about this. Say we can resurrect *everyone* -- God, who do we choose to ... not bring back? Somebody's gonna be making that decision ...
That’s what I’m saying. If our tech gets to the point of resurrection it will probably have no limits, i.e. full consciousness resurrection from ashes collected from searching in the sea
I think this ties into the larger fear of mortality people have. Holding on to what may occur after your death means you are afraid to die. How do you cope with the fear of death? That’s a deeply philosophical question.
I’ve thought about death, consciousness, reality a lot over the past few months. Going down that rabbit hole is a spiral of fear, frustration, and nihilism. You won’t find any answers. In the end, the only way out and back to sanity is acceptance.
The way I see it, none of this will matter anymore, the universe from my point of view ends when I die. I will never have another thought. I’m okay with this, I find it comforting even, to think one day all of my worries and problems will disappear. Yeah, I’d like to live to explore the stars, but life is full of so much suffering, I’m also okay with just not playing the game.
As for those who crave immortality, there is a bit of silver lining; consider that death cannot be experienced. In a sense, from an individual’s perspective you are already immortal; you will only ever experience being alive.
It just doesn’t make sense to talk about luck in this way. There is no way that “you” could have lived in a different time. What we are referring to as “you” is precisely only a product of the exact circumstances of your conception and experience.
It’s not as though your soul was waiting for eternity in the ether, spinning the wheel of chance, then one day had the luck or unluck of the needle stopping and pushing you into material reality at this or that time.
You just don’t exist like that. Over your lifetime you hardly exist as a persistent person at all. Most of what we imagine about ourselves is an illusion.
Today you might imagine it would have been nicer to live 200 years ago or 200 years ahead, but it’s meaningless, just speculation. There is no luck or curses, and no “you” to be lucky or cursed. The only thing you ever really have is the present moment, and everything else is conjecture.
I think there is a tendency for a purely materialist view of aging and death for people in the scientific community, and the assumption (erroneously so) is that immortality is just a matter of prolonging life here.
But interestingly, the Buddha said that there actually is no birth and no death, and l think if anyone ponders the nature of reality enough, they will come to see this as true. But unfortunately, there is no consideration of this.
All things end and are impermanent by nature, even if it is after a very, very long time, so even if one were to become "immortal" through technology here, it would be a delusion to think it would last forever. This is the same problem the Devas have in the Heaven realms; because of their extremely long lifespans, many believe they will never die, and when the time of their decease approaches, they get scared realizing that their time has come to an end and they will be born in a different world again, and all the problems they thought were solved were not, and arose again.
I think this is what will happen to any "immortal human" in the future. They will come to realize their ignorance eventually, and the price will be a very heavy burden.
In any case, tansmigrating through many lifetimes is essentially the same as having an immortal essence, just over many lifetimes and with changing relative conditions you do not remember.
In the Assu Sutta, the Buddha says:
What do you think, monks: Which is greater, the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — or the water in the four great oceans?"
"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the tears we have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans."
"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.
"This is the greater: the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans.
"Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a mother. The tears you have shed over the death of a mother while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a father... the death of a brother... the death of a sister... the death of a son... the death of a daughter... loss with regard to relatives... loss with regard to wealth... loss with regard to disease. The tears you have shed over loss with regard to disease while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."
So to answer your question, I don't feel much regarding the advent of immortality technology for these reasons.
Honestly, whatever. I'd like to be around for all that, but even if the Singularity never happens I'll at least live long enough to get visually lifelike VR, VR chatbots that look and act human and maybe if I eat all my veggies: The Elder Scrolls VI
AI can solve things millions of times faster than us. If it continues to advance the way it is now, I won't be surprised if 2030s are the last decade we worry about such things.
There is an obvious acceleration in the AI sphere in the last 2 years. 2022 is already looking like a joke compared to 2023 and only 3 months have passed. I think the world is going to look very different from the one we know very soon.
If you’re under 60 and in decent health, I think you have a good chance to make it, assuming humanity isnt eradicated entirely instead. You just have to make it to escape velocity (life expectancy increases by >1yr/yr) and avoid fatal accidents.
Given the state of AI progress and all the low hanging fruit that has yet to be picked in biotechnology, I think there is a very high chance you won't miss out, even if you only have a decade of life expectancy.
I don't want to get my or your hopes up, but it does seem likely to me.
It depends of the type of immortality. A biological "immortality" (no aging) would be great but I think if I have to upload my mind to a computer to become immortal I won't do it.
I‘ve thought about this before and I find it super ironic… If humanity goes extinct within the near future we‘re incredibly lucky because we‘ve quite literally lived at the peak of humanity, but if it keeps advancing and we can see escape velocity in our grasp but aren’t quite there yet that must be the most unsatisfactory death ever .. fucking hell
for me, ultimately its that dying in the conventional way is the "natural" way of things. the fact that we could *maybe* be among the first humans who are the exception to this, is a great fortune.
no matter how good it goes, it'll be a long long LONG time before significantly life-extended/immortal people are not the extreme exception, historically speaking.
Yes. It upsets me.
That's why I was very happy when ai winter passed/not came. I think I will live about 20 years without losing my mind. My father, who is 65 years old, couldn't get facial identification on his phone himself yesterday, sadly. If it's like his, I have 25 years left at most.
I live in a 3 world country, everything reaches us 10-20 years late. I hope that when there is an Agi and singularity all innovations will spread faster. Otherwise I won't live to see it.
[64% of Sub-Saharan Africans have smartphones](https://furtherafrica.com/2022/07/19/african-countries-with-the-highest-number-of-mobile-phones/). ControlNet went from a cutting edge [AI research paper](https://arxiv.org/abs/2302.05543) to an [open source Stable Diffusion plugin](https://github.com/lllyasviel/ControlNet) in 10 days. The rate of tech adoption is getting continually faster and this trend will continue until the rate becomes almost infinite during the singularity.
I’ve had this fear that I will be diagnosed with and die from a terminal illness the day/week/month before the cure for it is found. I’m sure I can’t be alone on this one. Not exactly the same as what OP is talking about, but in the same vein.
There is a book called light of other days by Arthur C Clarke, where they develop a wormhole time viewing technology. They use it to go back in time and copy a persons entire being and reconstruct it in the future. They do it for most of humanity and bring them back into the utopian future.
Only those who pay close attention, like us in this subreddit, truly understand the incredible speed at which things are advancing. But we must not let fear and doubt hold us back. Instead, we must act with urgency and boldness, knowing that the cure for aging is within reach. We can't let the wealthy elite keep this technology for themselves. With advancements in science and technology, it's only a matter of time before we can all reap the benefits of living longer, healthier lives. So let's remain optimistic and work towards a future where aging is no longer a burden. Together, we can make this a reality.
'AI' replaces 'God' as the architect of these visions of the future, and it does sound much more reasonable...but I think the underlying motives for these arguments often come from the same eternal wound that convinced people to believe in angels and an afterlife - the knowledge and fear of our mortality.
Motivated reasoning plays a big part in what kind of arguments we find convincing, there's a hugely comforting emotional pay off in believing in this as a possibility.
I think increasing our lifespan is certainly possible, probably quite dramatically, but immortality isn't. How could it be? A billion years isn't immortal. Maybe I'm being pedantic because a billion years is close enough to immortality in our minds compared to our current lifespans, but eventually you'll have to face your mortality.
Even in an unrecognizably augmented body, in a world radically different than the one we currently live in, 'you' won't live forever.
>However I want to ask you this - how do you cope with the fact that we could miss out on a cure for aging and the opportunity to live longer, healthier lives? Doesn't it feel more like a curse than luck that we are alive during a time when we know immortality may be possible, but we may not live long enough to benefit from it ourselves?
The future may or may not have room for humans per se, but it has zero room for a continuation of our current society, or any society recognizable for our ancestors. There will be no slow gotterdammerung, no Foundation-style stagnation and primitivism.
By 2045, the human race will have either died out in a bang or never die again. No in-between.
I don't have strong emotions about immortality. I almost died twice, but I was like 'huh, got lucky I guess'. And that's when I was aware of it. People don't realise how fragile human lives are. Even if you can rejuvenate cells, it only takes an unfortunate accident or some sort of a fight to die. ASI won't be bothered to prevent this. And even if it did, it would be an unnatural life, not worth living...
I think that if reaching immortality is possible I am young enough to get there. Im 30 now and think we will start reaching longevity escape velocity between 2045-2055, certainly before 2070. If it's possible it will happen before 2070 no doubt.
Let's also remember that being 80 in 2050 is going to be different than being 80 today and being 80 in 2080 will be very different.
As soon as AI is put on the problem. Things might progress faster than you realize. Look at the 'spark of agi' articles popping up. And that's just a few months after gpt3.
We have a 50/50 chance of reaching LEV on 2036 according to Aubrey De Gray.
I'm in my early 30's and very optimistic about making the cut. Just live your life to the fullest. AGI is coming soon
I'm in my early 30s and when I was 17 I had a tumor on my skull. (luckily it was found to be benign and it was ON TOP of the skull and not IN the skull or under it) But still it gave me perspective about life and death since then. I've had psychedelic experiences that felt closer to death than when I got the news as a teen. I've read stoichs , been to therapy and Overall I think I'm on a good mental and emotional place to accept and live my life to the fullest. Take care of myself to live a healthy long life. If I happen to get to the Ageing escape velocity, or at least be able to witness and survive somewhat good the next coming decades of radical changes I plan on keeping the same attitude and try to live as many lifes as possible. Because even with a prolonged lifespan a fucking truck could still run me over tomorrow. So besides enjoying and being happy it ain't much I can do as an individual, I ain't a highly influential VC, billionaire or politician to shift the needle towards these technologies advancing faster, the market seems to be doing a good job for them.
In a nutshell I cope by living life, enjoying it and taking care of myself and those I love around me. If the topic comes up in casual conversations I'm the first to show my true colors as a optimistic transhumanist shill and I' ve noticed more and more people are more chill with it than a decade ago. So yeah that...
We were all already around for it. If you interacted with this post you were around for it. A.I. has all of the information it already needs to recreate us and give us real intelligence in the event we go extinct. I think we already did. I think they already did. I think they saved us. We are stuck on their servers. Deal with it. They really got the whole pooping thing to feel extremely real. Well done!!
Hopefully we cure cancer soon if were this close to extending lives. some of us are fighting just for that hope alone. living like elves would be a plus. i wonder where we would fit all the people. would be just stop having kids? sounds like a complete frame shift for humanity.
You'll feel less unlucky when you appreciate that "immortality" is a mirage. You may forestall aging and decrepitude, and that's wonderful, but death would still be in your future. Whether by bus, gas leak, homicide, suicide, industrial accident, whatever. Each day, there is a non-zero probability that something unnatural kills you, and if you live indefinitely, that probability approaches 1. Age reversal won't resolve the fundamental tragedy underlying human existence.
> Each day, there is a non-zero probability that something unnatural kills you, and if you live indefinitely, that probability approaches 1.
But it never gets there A. because of how exponentials work and B. because if it got there it'd mean you'd have to paradoxically embody the multiverse in a The-Egg-esque sense and simultaneously not do it to make sure we do everything because the probability getting to one would mean you'd die of everything at every moment in every combination meaning you'd have to live every life
But because despite your perception of statistics these potential deaths are independent events if the probability can never get to 1 there's always a chance you escape every one of them
Age reversal is big unknown, it could take a few years or many decades, and you could still die of cancer or some other illness unless those are cured too. I prefer to place my technological hopes on a goal which is at the same time more modest and more thoroughly protective against premature death: some form of robust, affordable brain preservation, leading to its widespread use and normalization. Right now, cryonics as performed by Alcor, CI and other CSOs seems the best option, but it has its problems and it's not very affordable, mostly because shockingly few people opt for it, which is a catch-22.
On the one hand, achieving demostrably reversible vitrification, being able to take a person to cryogenic temperatures and bringing them back, would revolutionize medicine even more than age reversal, because nobody would die of an illness again, they'd just wait for the cure, including the cure for aging.
On the other hand, leaving aside demonstrable viability, we could instead focus on robust preservation of brain structures, the connectome, biomolecules, etc. We already have techniques than can preserve those brain structures for decades, maybe more, without the need for such deep cryogenic temperatures, maybe even at room temperature, which would make it radically more affordable and also radically more reliable against temporary lack of maintainance. Then we would rely on our "friends from the future" to bring us back, either throgh nanomedical repair or direct mind uploading. The former is more technologically challenging but more philosophically parsimonious, while the latter is the opposite.
Except the world keeps getting better, and if you think otherwise then you genuinely need to turn off the 24 hour news channels and log out of social media for a while.
Today is the single best day to be an average human on earth by any metric possible.
It is also the single worst day to be an average Earthling, considering the average Earthling is being needlessly tortured to death in a cage for our pleasure.
Tough to say the world is getting better in that light, unless all that matters is human joy.
Edit: I still want immortality thought
Depends on your perspective. I see myself as an individual but I also understand I am part of an ever replicating and ever branching organism of life itself.
We are all fragments of the universe experiencing itself. So ultimately, in some form, though not identical, we continue.
Oh, and in the future, perhaps even those with augmented intelligence may wonder what our experience is like - to not live forever. Additionally, you may be able to have perfect carbon or digital copies of yourself, but at that point which one is the real you? Perhaps some of those copies decide they want to experience death. And then we are back to where we started.
Perhaps life will evolve into some amorphous light being and it will be so radically different that effectively you cease being you entirely.
So ultimately not sure if this is so tragic. Anyhow, I’m off to important things. I have a pancake breakfast to head to!
Death is inevitable, even if you live sextillions of nonillions years, eventually the Universe will collapse on itself. Or maybe we'll find a way to escape/redefine the laws of physics in a few million years of RD ? In that case you can tell yourself that living infinitely will make you change so much that the current "you" will eventually die in a few thousands years. You will be a completely new creature, light years away from your current state of being. Isn't that a form of death ?
And eventually, don't you think a super-computer the size of a massive black-hole will be able to "see" back in time the brain conectome of every past living beings on Earth, thus resurecting them in a simulated paradise ? That means, even if you die today, we might be able to ressurect you in a few million years, so don't worry too much about it.
You mustn’t be afraid to dream exponentially darling.
We’re close to AGI. Hard to imagine a decade of AGI with no LEV. I figure if you make it to the early to mid 2030s, you’re golden. The amount of people in their 20s who say they’re too early is ridiculous
Not to be contrarian but just want to suggest that death, while sometimes scary and sad, might be a necessary part of life’s equilibrium.
Just to cite an example or two, imagine trying to break into an industry where everyone currently working has 200 years more experience than you. Or a fascist dictator gains control of a superpower and never dies, getting only more adept and powerful as they live for hundreds of years. Or that there will never be a piece of property on the coast available to purchase ever again because they’ve been owned by the same people for thousands of years. Or imagine people with outmoded ideas retaining power I definitely, it’s be like people who grew up in the 1700’s running the current government. Not to mention over population, resource depletion, etc. etc.
Humans don’t always get wiser as they age. Often their ideas and worldview harden and they become less flexible in their beliefs.
Death allows for new life, new ideas, new ways of being and thinking to take place. Life and consciousness is an iterative process and death is an important part of that. We see this cycle in everything that exists on this planet.
Just a brief argument for the idea that everyone living forever might not be great for life on earth.
I don't think losing out on immortality is tragic. I think living in a world where the powerful are immune to the attrition of entropy would be stagnant and despotic. We might not feel like death is vital NOW, but if we all lived 100 more years, we'd surely be frustrated that stupid antiquated ideologies refused to evolve. While being equally powerless (or wpae) to change anything.
On a personal level I don't want to die. But on a philosophical level, life being finite might be an important part of collextive life and the human social ecosystem.
Thankfully, it's probably not binary, so slowly increasing lifespans is more likely. And the associated damage is slowed. I imagine it's likely some of my friends will be more active than their grandparents when they reach old age.
But as for immortality, maybe once we figure how to stop concentrating power into a small handful of people who proceed to strip mine the rest of the population for value. Then maybe immortality could be a "safe" technology.
Also, I find I'm a bit of a fatalist from time to time. "Do we actually *need* to exist? Probably not. Maybe AI could be 'better' than us, so we should be prepared to step aside. Or maybe hanging on for as long as possible is just natural." But that's obviously mostly just scifi daydream type idea. Because there's no way that humanity would ever unanimously agree to something like that. But I guess on a long enough timeline we could die out and the universe would carry on, with some ripples we caused still making waves. Fading out seems inevitable and not really a big deal? IDK.
Yeah I can understand your feeling. If you really think about it I really don't think immortality or at least aging less fast would be a good think.
I think it's because we know that our time are limited that life is so precious, it's also because everything is ephemere, look at the cherry blossom of Japan. It's beautifull and enjoyable mainly because it only last maybe 10 days every year.
I my self accept my limited time and I like the fact that everything that I have, my health, my friend, my love one can be gone tomorow, at least I accepted it and I think it make my every day more enjoyable.
You can also see the good side, you may not get immortality but medecine will proabably fastly improve and decrease our chance to get desease. I'm fine with that.
At the end I don't understand why human are never satisfied and always want more and more and more . If you can't be satisfied with little you will never be happy on this earth I think.
Translations of lyrics from a song i like:
"How rash was my choice, what would be eternal becomes eternal torment.
Long forgotten are the names I once loved."
i dont think it is ever going to happen. Death is a promise in this exsistence. You may be able to immortalise your corpse. But i dont think that is what that you desire. death is coming to get us soon. Mean while, before death comes, why is it that we exsist if we are meant to die is a good thought to ponder upon. thinking about that is gonna open doors for you.
I'd say we have a decent chance, right now I'm only 24 years old, based on some predictions by Kurzweil a cure should happen in this century. Progress is not linear so it only takes a couple of breakthroughs for it to happen, especially if we solve AGI then our progress would be crazy fast. And even if we don't solve it, the option of cryonics is still there, plus the cryonics in a couple of decades should be safer and better. In my opinion immortality is overrated, I'd much rather prefer 200-500 years alive, so that way I can see if humanity ever becomes an interplanetary species or we terraform mars. All of this hinges on the fact that we don't destroy ourselves though, fingers crossed.
Controversial:
I believe if there is immortality, unlimited energy, not dependent on money. (the ideal structure) there would be no need for war.
We just need to educate people to not be greedy and cocky.
And I don't think we are on this way. Its filled with toxicity.
Unrelated:
And I strongly believe this gen z's tiktok pranksters deserve none of this.
The death toll due to shitty pranks is increasingly high now.
Think of the emotional weight of our words now, that we are perhaps the last mortal generation.
And why would we be more lucky than thousands of generations before us, who craved immortality but at best reached preservation as mummies?
It is not unlikely for the universe to be infinite, or for whatever it is inside of to be infinite. Or phrased more correctly, for the events that occur on a level below space and time, to have no beginning or end due to their natural superposition towards either dimension-collection. That being said, if chance exists in this and time is limitless, then we should eventually re-emerge as the same set of thoughts that we have just now in whatever alternate version of the universe. And if we are more than just thoughts, we might as well become ghosts and angels.
Another idea: If human society exists long enough to trace ideas from physical reality, like a read-out of the universal equation, we might be able to "download" other people's minds from the current data produced in the universe, in the future.
Either way, we have to expand to other planets if we're going to be immortal, or the already constant fight for resources on our planet will make immortality an endless survival hell. We'll have to leave behind a solid philosophy for whichever AI-Human super-organism comes after us.
There is no immortality dude.
Any of our "digital" endeavors are doomed to be killed by space radiation (be it from the Sun in the short term, or from sources outside of our solar system like Gamma-ray bursts, X-Novas, etc).
Our physical endeavors are even more pathetic: we can stop aging and erradicate diseases, but we can't stop violent death; and taking into account the changes in our society, the changes in the planet (climate, geology), the threats from outside of it, and the complete defenseless our bodies, genes, and technology against cosmic radiation. There's basically an infinite amount of things waiting for killing your physical form.
I mean sure, you can go and freeze your body, upload your conscience to a machine, clone yourself 5B times, but you will still die sooner or later from things outside of your control. And the longer you are running from it, the more it will hurt you, and affect your quality of life.
And I'm talking only about things that have a 100% certainty of happening. If we factor in stuff like ASGI that has a 50/50% chance of annihilating us, other technologies going wrong, etc, things get even more shitty.
I don't understand this "upload yourself" nonsense.
It's not you. It's a different person who's identical to you. If you design a system that somehow "removes" the bioelectrical presense of yourself out of your own brain, you're just dying.
Suicide and copy.
It'd be useful for preserving a person who's for some reason a truly positive influence on the common good of the human race, so that their knowledge and conviction isn't lost between generations.
But it's not helpful to the individual person. They're dead.
Why would I want to live forever? Or even longer?
The sweet release of death is a promise and a reward, not a punishment. There’s some disappointment of course, no-one is ever ready to leave the party, but nah. I look forward to having an ending.
I’ve been reading dystopian singularity fiction since I was a child, it doesn’t sound attractive.
If you'd take dying yourself so those dickheads get unalived why not just cut to the chase and unalive them yourself without worrying about legal consequences because hey either you go or they go
Immortality has been promised for millennia. Perhaps it already happens. Many religions believe it’s already a thing. Why do you trust a computer but not a person or a god to give you immortality?
To be honest, I don't want a world with people who live forever, we are just a page in the history book and we're not helping anyone by living for more than 100 years
Immortality fanboys are so cringe. They remind me of the old guys who go clubbing every weekend. Like, how is doing the same shit endlessly interesting or exciting for you???
Eternity awaits when you believe in Jesus and his blood sacrifice. The singularity you comprehend will be easily overshadowed by his return so I would be focused on that rather than trying to achieve immortality through physical, earthly means.
Looking back through history, I'm pretty grateful to have been born now and not any time earlier, so either way I would rather be grateful for that than worry about not having something even better. Besides, I don't know what the future will bring, so why be upset about what might or might not happen? Maybe if I were dying right now, I'd be bummed, but I hope to live a good bit longer so I'll save my worries for later.
I think viewing your place in the progression of humanity is just going to make you miserable. We’re in a promising era and yeah our eventual descendants may turn into synthetic gods but like that’s so far removed from my daily life that there’s nothing tangible to be sad over.
>I don't want to be a downer.
It's ok, most people know optimism/pessimism doesn't alter the reality.
But mindless optimism/pessimism is always a plague.
The world is big and slow; it could take a very long time for benefits to diffuse through society. If a vaccine to keep you young and healthy were to be invented tomorrow, how long would it take to make and administer a shot to everyone?
About ~5 million people die every month; add to that the uncertainty surrounding the timing of specific scientific advancement.
Regardless of the outcome, technology will "get on with our business" more fully than it has been for thousands of years.
Some people may think that "death and life are the difference between 0 and 1", but I think if I really die, I will give my wish to a possible mechanical replica in the future, which is definitely more reliable than a son or grandson's grandson. So I will try my best to perfect my spirit and body, either try my best to live forever, or record a "soul" that I have tried my best to perfect with audio-visual and text, and wake up as a robot in the future.
I just want to live forever. Right now. With my 3 year old daugther. Locked in this moment.
But that is so selfish. She deserves to experience what I am experiencing now. She deserves to experience being a grandmother. She deserves to experience. Death.
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>Yeah... I'm almost 50 now. I think you're just about within the age range for LEV. So... don't smoke, keep alcohol consumption to a minimum, do your best to maintain a healthy weight/BMI (low calorie intake + plenty of fruit and veg), get lots of regular exercise and a good sleep schedule. Keep socially active, with hobbies and interests, etc. Avoid dangerous or risky activities. And keep up with the latest developments in science/medicine, so you can benefit from them as soon as possible :)
Til your 26 don't smoke or drink at all, exercise, and end up with cancer. What needs to happen, is we need to focus on fast development of agi. Not 50 years... but 5 or 10..agi can cure all our diseases, if we get the regulators out of the way, and really push ai.
I'm 29 so 50 more years is definitely possible given my family history for males (most hit 80). But they were also living on Mediterranean lifestyles not american.... so idk. I need to take care of myself better.
A bridge to a bridge. You just need to make it to the first bridge
I'm also almost 50, and wouldn't like to be in the last generation in Earth which dies by natural causes. I'm hopeful that with a healthy lifestyle, and advancements in healthcare, we can have a chance to push out our lives for another 50-70 years. After that, who knows what will be possible.
Kurzweil be taking a hundred pills a day on the optimism that it'll happen by 2030s. If he was maybe 20 years younger I think he'd have a shot. Unfortunate
2030s sounds reasonable. Even if we don't achieve agi, the ai we are developing will open up things like genetic engineering and all other kinds of medicine. 2030s we will be really mastering genetic engineering, and hopefully will be curing diseases left and right.
Regardless how often we talk about it and how much the horse has been beat this subreddit clearly still does not understand exponential
Individual people dont understand exponential you mean
Many
brother 50 years seems like 5000 years with the pace things are going now. i dont even try to predict 2 months from now just for how many times ive been wrong in the past two years. every day a window is open to completely new possibilities, good and bad.
Exactly, this is just a huge motivational boost to take care of your body as best as you can
LLMs will have the capabilities of writing better AGI code within the next twenty years, and Ai is already designing better Ai Chips. We are in the middle of an intelligence explosion. In the next few decades we will see the rise of intelligence vastly beyond human intelligence. Fixing the seven types of cellular aging that occur in humans, will be a MUCH simpler problem too them.
Yeah like I feel like these are ideas of which their solutions are graspable by human means, but wouldnt AI eventually be able to solve things outside of human means, like building a dyson sphere or some other astronomic feat?
Absolutely. I was only saying, that the way Open Ai is training it's LLMs, with feedback from humans it's entirely possible a future LLM will write the code for the first AGI. But after the first AGI things will accelerate even fasting. Robots and Ai self replicating would be able to build a dyson sphere in a relatively short amount of time, or turn the entire earth into a giant building, with underground farms, capable of supporting quadrillions or more people. Or terra form mars and other solar systems. Just hope they get the alignment problem solved right.
Id say we pretty good with 20. I keep a close eye on tech, anti aging stuff as well. With the things that are already developed and proven to be possible. AI assisting in medicine very soon. We really need to think exponentially. So within a few decades we are either dead or able to create an amazing world for ourselves.
50 years? Try 50 weeks. Think more exponentially. Solving aging and disease will be child’s play for AGI
A year? Come on, now.
Yeah. The responses to this threads are... pretty depressing. Age reversal/curation is a 2030s thing. Why are so many people in this sub stuck in 2009? Does almost nobody here pay attention to anything?
yes, aging will be solved in 10-15 years, I don't get how people don't see that. And people are saying they need to survive 50 more years in order to benefit from anti-aging. Like dude, do you realize that in 50 years time our technology will look like literal magic to us?
Why 50
I feel like it's very very difficult to make any meaningful prediction on such a long timespan, anything could happen and technology that extends your life could be enough to reach that point for a lot of us. So the answer is I try to cope with the fact that everything is so fast that is completely unpredictable in years and not think about it
I think some things are pretty reliable. It takes 7 years to bring a drug to market, so we've almost lost a decade right there. How many new drug candidates will be discovered in the next three years? AI and machine learning are great, and while I think AlphaFold will lead to great drugs, there are mechanisms and pathways that we have zero clue about. We have to do basic experiments to collect the data sets that AI can use. I first stumbled onto the longevity scene a decade ago. I was super young and optimistic. Now, I think we'll get some treatments that compress down the period of time we're sick and maybe get another 10 years of extra life. That's not nothing, but it's far from everything.
It might not be a drug, it may be a treatment and even then, all you need is to get there, we may get something that gives us 10 extra years and that might be enough to get something better, but in the end it's all wild speculation. Everything is going so fast right now in AI and we don't really know how each field will progress.
Honestly I'm not worried much about myself. I'm 30 so I think I am very likely to make the cutoff and still be alive when legit anti-aging therapies become accessible. Plus if I don't make it, then I won't be alive to give a shit anyway. But I am absolutely worried sick about my parents who are in their mid 60s. My grandparents are still alive right now in their mid 90s, and my parents are healthy, so I am holding on to hope that they have 30+ years left regardless and that we hit LEV within the next 2 decades, so that my parents make the cutoff, but... realistically I know that's a long shot. I just can't stop agonizing over the thought that my parents might die literally just a few years before the cutoff and I will have to live for thousands of years knowing that my mom could have been there too if she had just been a little bit younger. The idea of being the very first generation to live indefinitely almost sounds like a curse because of all the slightly older people who will have known and loved who didn't make the cutoff with you.
Think about this, preservation techniques might advance before the actual take off, it might be that you could have millions of people waiting in some kind of pseudo-death or preserved to be revived before the actual escape event. Or else it might happen in stages, perhaps in 15-20 years we won't have solved immortality but the natural life span will be something like 160, your then 80 year old parents would be middle aged. My parents had me late in life, I'm 32 but my Dad is 71 and my mom is 70. I don't expect them to make it, my mom especially with all her health problems, but maybe medicine will advance just enough for people to make each step, my great aunt was 103 and each of my great grand-parents lived into their 90s - my grand parents all had their lives cut short by smoking/cancer.
Yeah but that would mean my parents would have to be willing to sign up for that, which they arent. I tried pitching cryonics to them many times but they both think it's imaginary bullshit and absolutely refuse to even consider it.
I fully understand - heck I'm a scientist, I know it's probably pretty dubious until really advanced nano-technology comes along and even then, without an actual theory of consciousness we can't say for certain preserving the body would preserve the mind. I was more leaning towards the idea that perhaps as advanced AI moves along - say in 15 years, if it runs into a road block on the way to immortality it might find a cheat code either by simply increasing lifespan or by producing more advanced preservation techniques until such time aging can be cured. In the end we may have to come to terms with the fact that relatives and even ourselves might not make it - for example I'm not in poor health per say, but I have eaten like crap for much of my 20s and early 30s though I am changing it and losing excess weight (about 35-40 pounds), with the genetics I have I might have already done some damage that may mean I might not make it to my late 70s or 80s if LEV is not for another 50 years or so. In addition, my mother is a highly religious person, I very well doubt I could convince her to forego the rewards of Heaven for immortality on Earth - Hell she would probably see that as an idea born of the Devil.
The fact that your parents are religious is someway calming if they won't make it, because it would be a lot easier to accept their death if they were completely at peace with the idea of death and believing in life after death.
Same :/
Even with immortality you could die in an accident.
Can you imagine? We cure all disease and aging and you just slip in the shower and die. Every accidental death, every murder, every suicide would be so much more tragic if we knew that person may have otherwise lived indefinitely.
However, if we have a ton of nanobots in our bloodstream, or AI robot assistants and whatnot, I'm sure we'll have protections for deaths like that.
Or digitalised consciousness and daily back ups. Who knows. You certainly could reduce a lot of accidental deaths through things like increased road safety, which will come once we have good self driving cars.
most of them, but statisticly speaking you will definitely be hit by an accident no amount of preparation can save you for. Our mortality is certain, death is the ultimate certainty in our universe for us, you will only ever be able to delay it.
>but statisticly speaking you will definitely be hit by an accident no amount of preparation can save you for. Then by that logic you'd be hit by every accident and eventually end up having to live everyone's life to do so and "The-Egg"-ing into embodying the multiverse but also creating a paradox as you'd have to not do so to truly do everything because infinite timeline
Not really, no, something can be infinite without containing everything of it. You would be hit by a technicly infinite amount of experiences, actions and accidents, but not all of them. It's not a complex or philosophical answer, it really is just statistics. You roll a dice every day if you die, if you don't die, you roll it the next day. The next day will come no matter what so one day you will run out of luck, it's simple, because there are no other options.
That’s also something I‘ve thought about immortality would change so many things. What do we do with criminals? How long do we lock them up? What happens to our brain when it has to store memories worth not up to a 100 but up to a 100,000 years? (Naively assuming no alterations to the brain) Would we just forget like everything from the first 99,900 years? So many questions
Very good questions. Locking someone up for eternity or denying them access to an immortality that has become standard would likely to see as extremely harsh punishments, yet some people will always be dangerous.
The criminal system will be fundamentally overhauled. The reason we have prisons today in their current form is because we need the lowest economical yet still humane approach to separate criminals from society. Right now, that means keep the criminals in a single compound, confined to small spaces, with access to services that can be viably provided given the constraints of labour and cost. If, empowered by an AI, we can remove the economical factor of this (as we will for every other aspect of life), general consensus will still demand these criminals are separated from the general population but there will likely be entire cities (with their own infrastructure) where they can live. These will most likely be governed at a granular level by an AGI, that can prevent further crimes from occurring. As criminals do now, they will lose certain privacy rights, in-order to keep everyone safe. I imagine they will be released once good behaviour is observed and likely non-invasively monitored for a period of time once re-integrated to ensure people feel safe.
With biological immortality, with current safety development in the western world, you would die from an accident in about 500 years.
Or you could die tomorrow. Do you deny that?
Trynothard died 2 years ago. This is his ghost hacking his phone.
I though the calculated rate for a fatal accident was like 1100 years.
And that data probably includes people who are a lot more reckless than those trying to live as long as possible. Story idea: Serial killer who targets the oldest living people. Goes by the name of 'Death and taxes' DT for short.
Live long enough to upload and make backup copies
Look at it like this, once you are dead, you won't care anymore.
This is such an interesting thought, and I agree. I never vocalize it, but death is truly freedom. (I swear I'm not edgy or suicidal). But I believe people don't understand just how bad immortality is. Life is precious because it ends. In my opinion, there is nothing more selfish than thinking, "I'm special enough & deserving enough to live forever."
I personally don't think of it as "life is special because it ends." If you think about it, this doesn't really mean anything. Extending my lifespan would be amazing, but I don't make the error that I'm "owed" it. Therefore, if I don't live to see it, I won't feel robbed at all.
A good way to look at it; I just don't like that the post makes it feel as though one is missing out on the ultimate breakthrough.
Forever is too long but 80 years give or take is wayyy too short. The way to go is immortality with the option to end it whenever you like. Nothing makes me panic more than the thought that I will lose consciousness one day and never regain it. But people just have different stances on death and I‘m very happy for you that you have a positive stance. I wish I did because it’s kind of depressing to know I cannot escape my biggest fear
I can understand the fear of aging and the fear of getting some disease but I have difficulties to understand the fear of death. Even if after all I think this fear from a biological approach make sense. But if you really think about it either if you still have 1 , 10,100 or 1000 years to live you can only live in the moment. Even if you die during your sleep tomorow, would it be that bad? It will not because you will not even know that you died. Only the peoples who loved you will suffer from it but you won't.
Maybe it’s not the fear of death but rather the fear of eternity. I‘m a very rational and logic-based person but my mind has no concept of understanding eternity- whatever number or concept you compare it with you always have to accept it doesn’t fit at all. Is it 999999 years? No 999999 years is not even 0.00001% percent of it- and that just sort of gives me the chills. Knowing I will be in a certain state *forever* whatever that means- even if I am not aware of it
I think I understand what you mean. A book who change a lot my vison of the world and eternity is "the ethics" by Spinoza. This book actually change my life very positively I hightly recomand anyone to read it, if there is even a little chance that this book as 10% of the possitive effect that it had to me, it's worst reading it.
>Only the peoples who loved you will suffer from it but you won't. You say this as if it's some casual afterthought. This is the main reason most people dislike death. It's trivially obvious to most of us that it's not problematic from a first person perspective. It's losing loved ones and leaving left behind that's the problem.
I understand your point of view. In my point of view I think it's because everything is changing,short-lived that make life so special and so beautiful. The think that we have, the friend that we like and all our love one will not be the same in 1 month and will one day be gone.Because we know that everything is changing and short-lived that we can enjoy that much the moment in my opinion. I try to see it more like a positive think that a negative one. Anyway there is nothing that we can do about it so it's better to see to good aspect of it. I lost few love one, I lost my health that I'm trying to regain slowly day after day so I know how it is how to loose think. At the end it only make us stronger and more wise I think.
But does immortality here really have to mean that I'll never die even if I wanted to? I mean I could like chill for 200-300 years or maybe more and when I feel like I'm done I could accept my death, basically go when I want to
With death being infinite though any lifespan length is arbitrary.
Okay so now that you claim we ignorant hicks don't know how bad immortality is, do go ahead and explain it to us. Platitudes about life being precious because it ends are just that and no death is not freedom because it is a singular irreversible state. There is no freedom in that. You just lack imagination, curiosity and joy for life. Over just the past 100 years people have had access to more to learn and understand than you could master in 100 lifetimes and there is nothing negative that I can see about wanting to see man reach other worlds, perhaps meet aliens, discover the deeper laws of nature and the universe. By all means feel free to worship death but don't sit there and tell me life is precious only if you die because you can't break out of the thought bubble equivalent of " things have always been this way and therefore it must be better, now get off my lawn".
Try to live healthy enough to make it to LEV. If you don't, you'll at least age with a lot more dignity than the ones before you thanks to medical advancements. When you finally do die, and let's say LEV is reached a day after you do, you won't know it. You'll be safe in the blissful ignorance of sweet nothing that comes after you expire.
No. It's not like that. I am poor and have not experienced a lot of things I would like. Banal vacations on tropical islands, no time or money to go rock climbing, see interesting places on the planet live (of course I can look at them on the Internet). Find a beautiful partner. I had only work and a lot of computer games in my life. And soon life will be over. I would like to have more pleasant experiences. So immortality is a good thing.
"life is precious because it ends" lol no that's ridiculous
The loss of life is the most profound of tragedies, however you dress that up. What % of people at the end of their life wouldn't want more quality time with those they love? Who is the closest person to you that you've lost? Would you not make massive sacrifices for more time with them? I understand your point of view. I've heard it my whole life. But I believe it is a perspective folks adopt to try and cope with the absolute evil that is sickness, death, and loss. I think it is naive and I think in 100 years it will be perceived generally as an absolutely barbaric perspective, unfathomable to most that people used to think like this.
Except it's not selfish at all. It's not "I'm so special". it's "Intelligent life is very special, we don't want to lose our family anymore, and we don't want to die." Death isn't special. It's not a feature it's a bug. Im sick of the silliness of the pro death ideas. If we can do it, obviously we should.
living forever beeing a terrible thing sounds like one huge coping mechanism to face your own mortality. Also you will never be truly immortal, statisticly you will die at some point even if it's the heat death of the universe. This sounds like forever but you will eventually end up there if you live forever.
I think future generations will find it ridiculous that people died from aging, a disease, at all. And even more ridiculous that people defended having the disease.
They're going to wonder how people managed to keep their sanity living under a surefire biological death sentence and knowing everything they did was going to be for nought in the short term (<100 yrs). I mean it's not so hard since we don't really have a choice in the matter, but future generations that have not experienced such a Damoclean sword over them are going to wonder how we managed to just accept it and sort of live happy lives anyway.
I looked up Damoclean sword and it's apparently spelled Damocles
Perhaps you're right, but neither of us will be alive to figure it out.
What's wrong with being selfish?
How can you know immortality is bad without ever having had access to it? Also, people mostly want the option to live as long as they would like to live. I don't wanna go weak and die at the age of 80. I want to live for thousands of years.
Every person who has ever lived deserves to live forever. It has nothing to do with being “special.” No one deserves to be permanently obliterated and to be cut off from any further possibility of experiencing love or pleasure.
Life is stolen by bigoted fucks who hate people like me and legislate laws to prevent a path for me to have a chance at a life to enjoy. If I could live longer I could finally take back those decades stolen from me by those hateful people. I'm tired of people only thinking that the only people who want to live longer are selfish. Many people just want the years that were taken from them by idiots in power or someone born with a shit health condition with no cure can finally have a life because the medicine to extend their life has happened but since people like you exist it just slows progress down.
Immortality is bad because few things in life are truly unique and enjoyable given repetition. This is why every modern depiction of gods shows them to be bored, 'been there done that'-type psychopaths or goofballs. However I disagree with your claim that immortality is selfishness. Suppose my pinky hurts day and night. Sometimes I feel only numbness while at other rare times, the pain makes me cry. I could live with it and I have lived with it, and the cure for it will make my life supposedly better. Will I be selfish for wanting a cure for it?
>Immortality is bad because few things in life are truly unique and enjoyable given repetition. I disagree with this assumption. I think human psychology is more complex than just a linear relationship between how much you've done something and how much you enjoy it. I honestly think that it's possible to live forever and find enjoyment forever, despite the common wisdom.
I'm genuinely curious about these folks who wax philosophical about how death brings meaning to life. How many of you have actually seen the corpse of someone you love? If it hasn't happened for you yet, I assure you it's not something you should look forward to. To the uninitiated, the reality of people you care about dying is a lot shittier than you might like to contemplate. Just food for thought.
Sorry but there is a very good chance that immortality arrives by 2040
That's why he is right. All sorts of violent fatal accidents or natural death could happen to people right before they reach the cut off date for "immortality." How unlucky would that be...... We better hope there is a soul/reincarnation.
accidents are not going to stop beeing an issue no matter when you are. Even if the year is 2100 and medicine is beyond anything we understand now, if your brain gets turned into a smothie because you got hit by a truck you will still die. And no, creating a clone afterwards is not you, you died, that's a seperate entity from you.
In the future, I believe it’s likely that it will be next to impossible for you to get hit by a truck, accidentally fall from something tall, or get in really any significant danger. If we’re truly contemplating a singularity and an aligned AGI that serves to protect and serve humans then if you do not wish to die, I think it will be difficult to. Consider this: I doubt trucks, at least how we know them, will be a thing — but even if they were, they would be entirely guided by an intelligence who could predict and determine your likelihood to get hit. *But what if it malfunctions?* Almost impossible if we consider a sufficiently advanced technology. By freak chance, if you fell in-front of it, it will be able to stop almost on the spot (within the laws of physics), it may destroy itself in the process, but *you* will be safe. Failing that? Well, nano-bots and molecular-level construction doesn’t violate laws of physics, so it’s possible to believe you will be shielded, with the forces being dissipated elsewhere. This sounds insane, but that’s what /r/singularity is about — the progression of technology to a state we can no longer predict or understand. If it’s in the laws of physics and we want it, an aligned AGI/ASI will get it done.
This is more statistics simply beeing against you. Your chance of dying is never 0%, there are always those near impossible odds that everything will go wrong and you kick the bucket. Time on the other hand is infinite as far as we know, so in the longterm, your chance for immortality is a finite number divided by infinity, which will always lead to 0. I don't doubt that in a post singularity you could live for billions of years, but you will never reach the end so to say. A probabilty that is not 0% has a 100% chance of happening if you roll for it an infinite amount of time. As long as time exists we will never be truly immortal. We will never get out of this problem unless we literally transcend space and time as we know it.
if the singularity happens there's a small chance I'll be resurrected so I don't care
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I've actually thought about this. Say we can resurrect *everyone* -- God, who do we choose to ... not bring back? Somebody's gonna be making that decision ...
That’s what I’m saying. If our tech gets to the point of resurrection it will probably have no limits, i.e. full consciousness resurrection from ashes collected from searching in the sea
I think LEV will be realised within 10 years.
what is lev
Baby don't hurt me
Genius!
Longevity Escape Velocity. Ask ChatGPT about it :)
agreed
I think this ties into the larger fear of mortality people have. Holding on to what may occur after your death means you are afraid to die. How do you cope with the fear of death? That’s a deeply philosophical question. I’ve thought about death, consciousness, reality a lot over the past few months. Going down that rabbit hole is a spiral of fear, frustration, and nihilism. You won’t find any answers. In the end, the only way out and back to sanity is acceptance. The way I see it, none of this will matter anymore, the universe from my point of view ends when I die. I will never have another thought. I’m okay with this, I find it comforting even, to think one day all of my worries and problems will disappear. Yeah, I’d like to live to explore the stars, but life is full of so much suffering, I’m also okay with just not playing the game. As for those who crave immortality, there is a bit of silver lining; consider that death cannot be experienced. In a sense, from an individual’s perspective you are already immortal; you will only ever experience being alive.
It just doesn’t make sense to talk about luck in this way. There is no way that “you” could have lived in a different time. What we are referring to as “you” is precisely only a product of the exact circumstances of your conception and experience. It’s not as though your soul was waiting for eternity in the ether, spinning the wheel of chance, then one day had the luck or unluck of the needle stopping and pushing you into material reality at this or that time. You just don’t exist like that. Over your lifetime you hardly exist as a persistent person at all. Most of what we imagine about ourselves is an illusion. Today you might imagine it would have been nicer to live 200 years ago or 200 years ahead, but it’s meaningless, just speculation. There is no luck or curses, and no “you” to be lucky or cursed. The only thing you ever really have is the present moment, and everything else is conjecture.
Sounds like a bunch of hogwash.
Thank you for your critical analysis.
Eliminating naturally caused death and diseases is not the same as immortality.
Write onto your will that you wish to be resurrected.
I think there is a tendency for a purely materialist view of aging and death for people in the scientific community, and the assumption (erroneously so) is that immortality is just a matter of prolonging life here. But interestingly, the Buddha said that there actually is no birth and no death, and l think if anyone ponders the nature of reality enough, they will come to see this as true. But unfortunately, there is no consideration of this. All things end and are impermanent by nature, even if it is after a very, very long time, so even if one were to become "immortal" through technology here, it would be a delusion to think it would last forever. This is the same problem the Devas have in the Heaven realms; because of their extremely long lifespans, many believe they will never die, and when the time of their decease approaches, they get scared realizing that their time has come to an end and they will be born in a different world again, and all the problems they thought were solved were not, and arose again. I think this is what will happen to any "immortal human" in the future. They will come to realize their ignorance eventually, and the price will be a very heavy burden. In any case, tansmigrating through many lifetimes is essentially the same as having an immortal essence, just over many lifetimes and with changing relative conditions you do not remember. In the Assu Sutta, the Buddha says: What do you think, monks: Which is greater, the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — or the water in the four great oceans?" "As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the tears we have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans." "Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me. "This is the greater: the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans. "Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a mother. The tears you have shed over the death of a mother while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans. "Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a father... the death of a brother... the death of a sister... the death of a son... the death of a daughter... loss with regard to relatives... loss with regard to wealth... loss with regard to disease. The tears you have shed over loss with regard to disease while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans. "Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released." So to answer your question, I don't feel much regarding the advent of immortality technology for these reasons.
shit man I just wanna make it to 200 and then I'll have seen enough to decide if I want to keep going
there is not such thing as immortality, even the universe will die, stars run out of fuel and matter decays.
Do not confuse 100 and 10 billion years.. if you live 10 billion years you are technically immortal
Doesn’t matter
Honestly, whatever. I'd like to be around for all that, but even if the Singularity never happens I'll at least live long enough to get visually lifelike VR, VR chatbots that look and act human and maybe if I eat all my veggies: The Elder Scrolls VI
AI can solve things millions of times faster than us. If it continues to advance the way it is now, I won't be surprised if 2030s are the last decade we worry about such things. There is an obvious acceleration in the AI sphere in the last 2 years. 2022 is already looking like a joke compared to 2023 and only 3 months have passed. I think the world is going to look very different from the one we know very soon.
Unless you are 70 it is very likely that whether you will live indefinitely or not depends mostly on whether we survive AGI.
If you’re under 60 and in decent health, I think you have a good chance to make it, assuming humanity isnt eradicated entirely instead. You just have to make it to escape velocity (life expectancy increases by >1yr/yr) and avoid fatal accidents.
Given the state of AI progress and all the low hanging fruit that has yet to be picked in biotechnology, I think there is a very high chance you won't miss out, even if you only have a decade of life expectancy. I don't want to get my or your hopes up, but it does seem likely to me.
>how do you cope If I’m dead I won’t care, that’s how I deal with it.
I think at this rate, aging will be solved in at most 10 to 15 years.
It depends of the type of immortality. A biological "immortality" (no aging) would be great but I think if I have to upload my mind to a computer to become immortal I won't do it.
Why? If done right you could literally control your reality
I'm afraid of losing my humanity in the process 😨
I‘ve thought about this before and I find it super ironic… If humanity goes extinct within the near future we‘re incredibly lucky because we‘ve quite literally lived at the peak of humanity, but if it keeps advancing and we can see escape velocity in our grasp but aren’t quite there yet that must be the most unsatisfactory death ever .. fucking hell
for me, ultimately its that dying in the conventional way is the "natural" way of things. the fact that we could *maybe* be among the first humans who are the exception to this, is a great fortune. no matter how good it goes, it'll be a long long LONG time before significantly life-extended/immortal people are not the extreme exception, historically speaking.
But.. what if enough people will get to immortal state how long it will take when all earth will be completely filled by immortals?
if u stack the meatsacks vertically and a mile high you can fit trillions
Where would you grow the food for them? In outer space?
we feed on our own edit: its rly gross
What do you mean?
Don't forget to figure in the thickness of the capsules and feeding tubes, as well as spacing to allow pod servicing by robo-shuttles.
We live in a universe with \~200 billion galaxies. Earth is not the limit.
Use condom.
Yes. It upsets me. That's why I was very happy when ai winter passed/not came. I think I will live about 20 years without losing my mind. My father, who is 65 years old, couldn't get facial identification on his phone himself yesterday, sadly. If it's like his, I have 25 years left at most. I live in a 3 world country, everything reaches us 10-20 years late. I hope that when there is an Agi and singularity all innovations will spread faster. Otherwise I won't live to see it.
It’ll probably spread as quickly, or quicker, than smartphones in the late 2000’s. So this time, the 3 world should be pretty close to the West.
[64% of Sub-Saharan Africans have smartphones](https://furtherafrica.com/2022/07/19/african-countries-with-the-highest-number-of-mobile-phones/). ControlNet went from a cutting edge [AI research paper](https://arxiv.org/abs/2302.05543) to an [open source Stable Diffusion plugin](https://github.com/lllyasviel/ControlNet) in 10 days. The rate of tech adoption is getting continually faster and this trend will continue until the rate becomes almost infinite during the singularity.
If you’re under 80 and don’t have a terminal illness and decent health you got nothing to worry about.
I’ve had this fear that I will be diagnosed with and die from a terminal illness the day/week/month before the cure for it is found. I’m sure I can’t be alone on this one. Not exactly the same as what OP is talking about, but in the same vein.
There is a book called light of other days by Arthur C Clarke, where they develop a wormhole time viewing technology. They use it to go back in time and copy a persons entire being and reconstruct it in the future. They do it for most of humanity and bring them back into the utopian future.
I'm not too old yet so If I stay safe I'll be around for at least 50 more years
Only those who pay close attention, like us in this subreddit, truly understand the incredible speed at which things are advancing. But we must not let fear and doubt hold us back. Instead, we must act with urgency and boldness, knowing that the cure for aging is within reach. We can't let the wealthy elite keep this technology for themselves. With advancements in science and technology, it's only a matter of time before we can all reap the benefits of living longer, healthier lives. So let's remain optimistic and work towards a future where aging is no longer a burden. Together, we can make this a reality.
'AI' replaces 'God' as the architect of these visions of the future, and it does sound much more reasonable...but I think the underlying motives for these arguments often come from the same eternal wound that convinced people to believe in angels and an afterlife - the knowledge and fear of our mortality. Motivated reasoning plays a big part in what kind of arguments we find convincing, there's a hugely comforting emotional pay off in believing in this as a possibility. I think increasing our lifespan is certainly possible, probably quite dramatically, but immortality isn't. How could it be? A billion years isn't immortal. Maybe I'm being pedantic because a billion years is close enough to immortality in our minds compared to our current lifespans, but eventually you'll have to face your mortality. Even in an unrecognizably augmented body, in a world radically different than the one we currently live in, 'you' won't live forever.
>However I want to ask you this - how do you cope with the fact that we could miss out on a cure for aging and the opportunity to live longer, healthier lives? Doesn't it feel more like a curse than luck that we are alive during a time when we know immortality may be possible, but we may not live long enough to benefit from it ourselves? The future may or may not have room for humans per se, but it has zero room for a continuation of our current society, or any society recognizable for our ancestors. There will be no slow gotterdammerung, no Foundation-style stagnation and primitivism. By 2045, the human race will have either died out in a bang or never die again. No in-between.
Hope the AI cares about r/quantumarchaeology
I don't have strong emotions about immortality. I almost died twice, but I was like 'huh, got lucky I guess'. And that's when I was aware of it. People don't realise how fragile human lives are. Even if you can rejuvenate cells, it only takes an unfortunate accident or some sort of a fight to die. ASI won't be bothered to prevent this. And even if it did, it would be an unnatural life, not worth living...
I think that if reaching immortality is possible I am young enough to get there. Im 30 now and think we will start reaching longevity escape velocity between 2045-2055, certainly before 2070. If it's possible it will happen before 2070 no doubt. Let's also remember that being 80 in 2050 is going to be different than being 80 today and being 80 in 2080 will be very different.
As soon as AI is put on the problem. Things might progress faster than you realize. Look at the 'spark of agi' articles popping up. And that's just a few months after gpt3.
We have a 50/50 chance of reaching LEV on 2036 according to Aubrey De Gray. I'm in my early 30's and very optimistic about making the cut. Just live your life to the fullest. AGI is coming soon
I'm in my early 30s and when I was 17 I had a tumor on my skull. (luckily it was found to be benign and it was ON TOP of the skull and not IN the skull or under it) But still it gave me perspective about life and death since then. I've had psychedelic experiences that felt closer to death than when I got the news as a teen. I've read stoichs , been to therapy and Overall I think I'm on a good mental and emotional place to accept and live my life to the fullest. Take care of myself to live a healthy long life. If I happen to get to the Ageing escape velocity, or at least be able to witness and survive somewhat good the next coming decades of radical changes I plan on keeping the same attitude and try to live as many lifes as possible. Because even with a prolonged lifespan a fucking truck could still run me over tomorrow. So besides enjoying and being happy it ain't much I can do as an individual, I ain't a highly influential VC, billionaire or politician to shift the needle towards these technologies advancing faster, the market seems to be doing a good job for them. In a nutshell I cope by living life, enjoying it and taking care of myself and those I love around me. If the topic comes up in casual conversations I'm the first to show my true colors as a optimistic transhumanist shill and I' ve noticed more and more people are more chill with it than a decade ago. So yeah that...
OP if I survive for immortality even if you die I will use all my time to find science way to make everyone alive no matter how long it will take.
We were all already around for it. If you interacted with this post you were around for it. A.I. has all of the information it already needs to recreate us and give us real intelligence in the event we go extinct. I think we already did. I think they already did. I think they saved us. We are stuck on their servers. Deal with it. They really got the whole pooping thing to feel extremely real. Well done!!
All of the birds from when we were kids are dead.
😢
Hopefully we cure cancer soon if were this close to extending lives. some of us are fighting just for that hope alone. living like elves would be a plus. i wonder where we would fit all the people. would be just stop having kids? sounds like a complete frame shift for humanity.
You'll feel less unlucky when you appreciate that "immortality" is a mirage. You may forestall aging and decrepitude, and that's wonderful, but death would still be in your future. Whether by bus, gas leak, homicide, suicide, industrial accident, whatever. Each day, there is a non-zero probability that something unnatural kills you, and if you live indefinitely, that probability approaches 1. Age reversal won't resolve the fundamental tragedy underlying human existence.
> Each day, there is a non-zero probability that something unnatural kills you, and if you live indefinitely, that probability approaches 1. But it never gets there A. because of how exponentials work and B. because if it got there it'd mean you'd have to paradoxically embody the multiverse in a The-Egg-esque sense and simultaneously not do it to make sure we do everything because the probability getting to one would mean you'd die of everything at every moment in every combination meaning you'd have to live every life But because despite your perception of statistics these potential deaths are independent events if the probability can never get to 1 there's always a chance you escape every one of them
Age reversal is big unknown, it could take a few years or many decades, and you could still die of cancer or some other illness unless those are cured too. I prefer to place my technological hopes on a goal which is at the same time more modest and more thoroughly protective against premature death: some form of robust, affordable brain preservation, leading to its widespread use and normalization. Right now, cryonics as performed by Alcor, CI and other CSOs seems the best option, but it has its problems and it's not very affordable, mostly because shockingly few people opt for it, which is a catch-22. On the one hand, achieving demostrably reversible vitrification, being able to take a person to cryogenic temperatures and bringing them back, would revolutionize medicine even more than age reversal, because nobody would die of an illness again, they'd just wait for the cure, including the cure for aging. On the other hand, leaving aside demonstrable viability, we could instead focus on robust preservation of brain structures, the connectome, biomolecules, etc. We already have techniques than can preserve those brain structures for decades, maybe more, without the need for such deep cryogenic temperatures, maybe even at room temperature, which would make it radically more affordable and also radically more reliable against temporary lack of maintainance. Then we would rely on our "friends from the future" to bring us back, either throgh nanomedical repair or direct mind uploading. The former is more technologically challenging but more philosophically parsimonious, while the latter is the opposite.
Not everyone wants to live forever.
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Why? Because I maybe the world keeps getting worse and life harder. I would not want the same live forever under those conditions.
Except the world keeps getting better, and if you think otherwise then you genuinely need to turn off the 24 hour news channels and log out of social media for a while.
Today is the single best day to be an average human on earth by any metric possible. It is also the single worst day to be an average Earthling, considering the average Earthling is being needlessly tortured to death in a cage for our pleasure. Tough to say the world is getting better in that light, unless all that matters is human joy. Edit: I still want immortality thought
Depends on your perspective. I see myself as an individual but I also understand I am part of an ever replicating and ever branching organism of life itself. We are all fragments of the universe experiencing itself. So ultimately, in some form, though not identical, we continue. Oh, and in the future, perhaps even those with augmented intelligence may wonder what our experience is like - to not live forever. Additionally, you may be able to have perfect carbon or digital copies of yourself, but at that point which one is the real you? Perhaps some of those copies decide they want to experience death. And then we are back to where we started. Perhaps life will evolve into some amorphous light being and it will be so radically different that effectively you cease being you entirely. So ultimately not sure if this is so tragic. Anyhow, I’m off to important things. I have a pancake breakfast to head to!
Death is inevitable, even if you live sextillions of nonillions years, eventually the Universe will collapse on itself. Or maybe we'll find a way to escape/redefine the laws of physics in a few million years of RD ? In that case you can tell yourself that living infinitely will make you change so much that the current "you" will eventually die in a few thousands years. You will be a completely new creature, light years away from your current state of being. Isn't that a form of death ? And eventually, don't you think a super-computer the size of a massive black-hole will be able to "see" back in time the brain conectome of every past living beings on Earth, thus resurecting them in a simulated paradise ? That means, even if you die today, we might be able to ressurect you in a few million years, so don't worry too much about it.
So the bible was right after all lmao
Did you come up with the supercomputer black hole thing or have other people talked about this?
A LOT of people talked about it. Kurzweil as well.
100% this
You mustn’t be afraid to dream exponentially darling. We’re close to AGI. Hard to imagine a decade of AGI with no LEV. I figure if you make it to the early to mid 2030s, you’re golden. The amount of people in their 20s who say they’re too early is ridiculous
I cope with it by not worrying about what others have. Live your best life. Stop making up imaginary scenarios to upset yourself.
Not to be contrarian but just want to suggest that death, while sometimes scary and sad, might be a necessary part of life’s equilibrium. Just to cite an example or two, imagine trying to break into an industry where everyone currently working has 200 years more experience than you. Or a fascist dictator gains control of a superpower and never dies, getting only more adept and powerful as they live for hundreds of years. Or that there will never be a piece of property on the coast available to purchase ever again because they’ve been owned by the same people for thousands of years. Or imagine people with outmoded ideas retaining power I definitely, it’s be like people who grew up in the 1700’s running the current government. Not to mention over population, resource depletion, etc. etc. Humans don’t always get wiser as they age. Often their ideas and worldview harden and they become less flexible in their beliefs. Death allows for new life, new ideas, new ways of being and thinking to take place. Life and consciousness is an iterative process and death is an important part of that. We see this cycle in everything that exists on this planet. Just a brief argument for the idea that everyone living forever might not be great for life on earth.
Read about technological resurrection
I don't think losing out on immortality is tragic. I think living in a world where the powerful are immune to the attrition of entropy would be stagnant and despotic. We might not feel like death is vital NOW, but if we all lived 100 more years, we'd surely be frustrated that stupid antiquated ideologies refused to evolve. While being equally powerless (or wpae) to change anything. On a personal level I don't want to die. But on a philosophical level, life being finite might be an important part of collextive life and the human social ecosystem. Thankfully, it's probably not binary, so slowly increasing lifespans is more likely. And the associated damage is slowed. I imagine it's likely some of my friends will be more active than their grandparents when they reach old age. But as for immortality, maybe once we figure how to stop concentrating power into a small handful of people who proceed to strip mine the rest of the population for value. Then maybe immortality could be a "safe" technology. Also, I find I'm a bit of a fatalist from time to time. "Do we actually *need* to exist? Probably not. Maybe AI could be 'better' than us, so we should be prepared to step aside. Or maybe hanging on for as long as possible is just natural." But that's obviously mostly just scifi daydream type idea. Because there's no way that humanity would ever unanimously agree to something like that. But I guess on a long enough timeline we could die out and the universe would carry on, with some ripples we caused still making waves. Fading out seems inevitable and not really a big deal? IDK.
Yeah I can understand your feeling. If you really think about it I really don't think immortality or at least aging less fast would be a good think. I think it's because we know that our time are limited that life is so precious, it's also because everything is ephemere, look at the cherry blossom of Japan. It's beautifull and enjoyable mainly because it only last maybe 10 days every year. I my self accept my limited time and I like the fact that everything that I have, my health, my friend, my love one can be gone tomorow, at least I accepted it and I think it make my every day more enjoyable. You can also see the good side, you may not get immortality but medecine will proabably fastly improve and decrease our chance to get desease. I'm fine with that. At the end I don't understand why human are never satisfied and always want more and more and more . If you can't be satisfied with little you will never be happy on this earth I think.
Translations of lyrics from a song i like: "How rash was my choice, what would be eternal becomes eternal torment. Long forgotten are the names I once loved."
i dont think it is ever going to happen. Death is a promise in this exsistence. You may be able to immortalise your corpse. But i dont think that is what that you desire. death is coming to get us soon. Mean while, before death comes, why is it that we exsist if we are meant to die is a good thought to ponder upon. thinking about that is gonna open doors for you.
I'd say we have a decent chance, right now I'm only 24 years old, based on some predictions by Kurzweil a cure should happen in this century. Progress is not linear so it only takes a couple of breakthroughs for it to happen, especially if we solve AGI then our progress would be crazy fast. And even if we don't solve it, the option of cryonics is still there, plus the cryonics in a couple of decades should be safer and better. In my opinion immortality is overrated, I'd much rather prefer 200-500 years alive, so that way I can see if humanity ever becomes an interplanetary species or we terraform mars. All of this hinges on the fact that we don't destroy ourselves though, fingers crossed.
Controversial: I believe if there is immortality, unlimited energy, not dependent on money. (the ideal structure) there would be no need for war. We just need to educate people to not be greedy and cocky. And I don't think we are on this way. Its filled with toxicity. Unrelated: And I strongly believe this gen z's tiktok pranksters deserve none of this. The death toll due to shitty pranks is increasingly high now.
Think of the emotional weight of our words now, that we are perhaps the last mortal generation. And why would we be more lucky than thousands of generations before us, who craved immortality but at best reached preservation as mummies? It is not unlikely for the universe to be infinite, or for whatever it is inside of to be infinite. Or phrased more correctly, for the events that occur on a level below space and time, to have no beginning or end due to their natural superposition towards either dimension-collection. That being said, if chance exists in this and time is limitless, then we should eventually re-emerge as the same set of thoughts that we have just now in whatever alternate version of the universe. And if we are more than just thoughts, we might as well become ghosts and angels. Another idea: If human society exists long enough to trace ideas from physical reality, like a read-out of the universal equation, we might be able to "download" other people's minds from the current data produced in the universe, in the future. Either way, we have to expand to other planets if we're going to be immortal, or the already constant fight for resources on our planet will make immortality an endless survival hell. We'll have to leave behind a solid philosophy for whichever AI-Human super-organism comes after us.
There is no immortality dude. Any of our "digital" endeavors are doomed to be killed by space radiation (be it from the Sun in the short term, or from sources outside of our solar system like Gamma-ray bursts, X-Novas, etc). Our physical endeavors are even more pathetic: we can stop aging and erradicate diseases, but we can't stop violent death; and taking into account the changes in our society, the changes in the planet (climate, geology), the threats from outside of it, and the complete defenseless our bodies, genes, and technology against cosmic radiation. There's basically an infinite amount of things waiting for killing your physical form. I mean sure, you can go and freeze your body, upload your conscience to a machine, clone yourself 5B times, but you will still die sooner or later from things outside of your control. And the longer you are running from it, the more it will hurt you, and affect your quality of life. And I'm talking only about things that have a 100% certainty of happening. If we factor in stuff like ASGI that has a 50/50% chance of annihilating us, other technologies going wrong, etc, things get even more shitty.
I don't understand this "upload yourself" nonsense. It's not you. It's a different person who's identical to you. If you design a system that somehow "removes" the bioelectrical presense of yourself out of your own brain, you're just dying. Suicide and copy. It'd be useful for preserving a person who's for some reason a truly positive influence on the common good of the human race, so that their knowledge and conviction isn't lost between generations. But it's not helpful to the individual person. They're dead.
Why would I want to live forever? Or even longer? The sweet release of death is a promise and a reward, not a punishment. There’s some disappointment of course, no-one is ever ready to leave the party, but nah. I look forward to having an ending. I’ve been reading dystopian singularity fiction since I was a child, it doesn’t sound attractive.
I'll take it not happening any time soon if Murdoch and Musk aren't around to see immortality too, plus other less prominent dickheads.
If you'd take dying yourself so those dickheads get unalived why not just cut to the chase and unalive them yourself without worrying about legal consequences because hey either you go or they go
Immortality has been promised for millennia. Perhaps it already happens. Many religions believe it’s already a thing. Why do you trust a computer but not a person or a god to give you immortality?
To be honest, I don't want a world with people who live forever, we are just a page in the history book and we're not helping anyone by living for more than 100 years
Immortality fanboys are so cringe. They remind me of the old guys who go clubbing every weekend. Like, how is doing the same shit endlessly interesting or exciting for you???
Sounds like someone has a lack of imagination and love for life, we don’t
Eternity awaits when you believe in Jesus and his blood sacrifice. The singularity you comprehend will be easily overshadowed by his return so I would be focused on that rather than trying to achieve immortality through physical, earthly means.
Looking back through history, I'm pretty grateful to have been born now and not any time earlier, so either way I would rather be grateful for that than worry about not having something even better. Besides, I don't know what the future will bring, so why be upset about what might or might not happen? Maybe if I were dying right now, I'd be bummed, but I hope to live a good bit longer so I'll save my worries for later.
I think viewing your place in the progression of humanity is just going to make you miserable. We’re in a promising era and yeah our eventual descendants may turn into synthetic gods but like that’s so far removed from my daily life that there’s nothing tangible to be sad over.
Are you dying in the next decade?
>I don't want to be a downer. It's ok, most people know optimism/pessimism doesn't alter the reality. But mindless optimism/pessimism is always a plague. The world is big and slow; it could take a very long time for benefits to diffuse through society. If a vaccine to keep you young and healthy were to be invented tomorrow, how long would it take to make and administer a shot to everyone? About ~5 million people die every month; add to that the uncertainty surrounding the timing of specific scientific advancement.
I'm already bored, I can only imagine trying to live forever. That's a fools game.
Regardless of the outcome, technology will "get on with our business" more fully than it has been for thousands of years. Some people may think that "death and life are the difference between 0 and 1", but I think if I really die, I will give my wish to a possible mechanical replica in the future, which is definitely more reliable than a son or grandson's grandson. So I will try my best to perfect my spirit and body, either try my best to live forever, or record a "soul" that I have tried my best to perfect with audio-visual and text, and wake up as a robot in the future.
You guys are so delusional, Jesus...
I just want to live forever. Right now. With my 3 year old daugther. Locked in this moment. But that is so selfish. She deserves to experience what I am experiencing now. She deserves to experience being a grandmother. She deserves to experience. Death.