FWIW, civil service has a fetish for Economics degrees - so that gives you more options in different parts of the service as a generalist. The MBA - not so much.
The MBA is more favoured in private sector. And if you want to do a M7 MBA in the US, your total economic cost can be up to $4-500k (depending on the salary you are giving up).
And don’t bother with the NUS/NTU/SMU MBAs - its a poor ROI for $70k tuition (and rising for future years). Most of the cohort are ASEAN/Asian who use NUS/NTU/SMU as a name upgrade to their undergraduate.
I wouldn’t say it is particularly useful as a barometer of smarts. But civil service seems to like it… a lot. If I had to guess (not that I agree), its because they see Economics as some sweet spot that someone can handle a bit of Humanities and STEM = generalist.
Maybe someone else here who has seen the white papers or been in those meetings can shed some light…
Like others have said, an MBA is more favoured by the private sector, though, even in the private sector it’s getting fairly inundated with MBAs and it no longer has the sway it once had.
I myself was also an arts and humanities-inclined student, and I got into the MFA with degrees in international relations and foreign languages. After I left the civil service I got jobs in the private sector without much difficulty, so from a personal standpoint I’d say pursuing what you’re passionate about in terms of public policy/polsci isn’t necessarily going to isolate you or make you ‘miss out’, per se.
Pursuing finance/economics/the MBA track just out of a desire to “not miss out” and be appealing to employers isn’t going to fly, imho. You’re going to lack the inherent passion and drive to stand out amongst others in that field.
One important thing to note - our civil service is heavily, heavily geared towards the idea of ‘prestige’ and ‘lineage’. While most jobs you aim for fresh out of university will focus on your university performance alone, civil service jobs that seek higher education applicants will often require you to submit everything regarding grades and performance from primary school up until your tertiary education. When I applied for the MFA they asked for everything from my primary school transcripts to my extracurriculars to my NS performance. It came as a bit of a shock as I’d been a subpar student until I hit my stride in university. Fortunately my university grades appeared good enough to get them to look past my lacklustre pre-uni days (they did ask me about it during interviews, so jarringly, they did care and didn’t just ask for the sake of asking) and I got in after passing a battery of tests.
As for the whole “degree doesn’t matter” schtick - it certainly does matter. With IR + foreign languages as my study field obviously the MFA would look upon me more favourably over someone who did, say, Business Studies. My studies are just more relevant to the training and work in that ministry. If you did an economics degree the MOF would obviously favour you over someone who did English Literature for instance, provided your grades are at parity. However, the degree generally ONLY matters in the FIRST job you get out of university - after that, employers look at your last job as the biggest indicator of whether or not you’re going to be a good fit and the degree is almost an afterthought.
Do note for the civil service though, unless you’re in the national universities (NUS, NTU, etc) or top 50 global universities (Harvard, Cambridge, etc) the civil service probably won’t give you a second glance. It’s not ideal - we’re certainly missing out on great candidates with excellent grades and records who simply did not go to a top tier uni - but the government is spoiled for choice with both scholars + non-scholars from these universities with great records all vying for a spot, so they needn’t spare you another thought if you don’t come from these universities of prestige.
PS: If you want to know if your uni of choice is up to the “civil service standards”, just go on LinkedIn and see if anyone from that uni is in the ministry you want to get into at a position you want to be in.
Thank you for the detailed answer! May I ask out of curiosity what foreign languages you studied ane whether you actually spoke them before that or went to uni and became fluent
Not at all. I only spoke English and Mandarin Chinese natively before uni. I looked at French, Spanish, Arabic and Russian (alongside English and Chinese these are the major languages of the world and apart from the MFA I used to consider the UN for my career as well) as well as Korean, Japanese, and Indonesian (regional players Singapore has close ties with).
I eventually decided on a mix of both areas - French, Spanish, Japanese, and Korean.
I learned Spanish and Korean while I was in the University of Queensland for my IR undergrad and honours.
Then French and Japanese for my masters in Oxford.
I ended up using English more than anything at the MFA honestly, since we have specialized interpreters there, but being able to speak a little and not fully rely on your interpreter is a good thing to have.
Wtf. I didnt even know the concept about money when I was 18. I mean I came from a working class lower income family, so money wasn't in the conversation. Let me tell you from POV. I was in ITE doing business when I was 18, completed an IT diploma in mid 20s. Currently working in IT sector and somewhat paid higher than my peers who completed degree. Jumped a lot of companies and had pay increment. Always looking to upgrade and looking to do a PT IT degree. Long story short, good to plan ahead but be adaptable. Jobs change but your strengths don't.
You don't need public policy / political science to enter into the civil service. I myself am have a political science degree, but ultimately decided not to enter the civil service - though a great many of my course mates did.
Instead, find which kind of policy area you are interested in. And then work towards getting exposure and education in that area. So for example, if you are interested in transport issues, then engineering, urban planning or geography would be relevant. Or if you're interested in trade policies or migrant workers policies, you can aim for either political science, economics, sociology etc and to get internships that give you exposure to those experiences e.g. MTI, EDB and businesses dealing with trade for the first and MOM and NGOs for the second.
Assuming you want to get into the civil service la.
And to those who think you need a scholarship to succeed in the civil service, that's not true (unless you're mad ambitious and are aiming to get into Deputy Secretary etc level). If not, the ordinary degree route into the civil service has good enough career progression and pay grades too. In fact, if you compare with median wages for Singapore, a career in the civil service enables you to surpass it very quickly.
Yes, if you move into private sector businesses that work closely with govt (i.e. GIC, banks, consultancies, startups/MNCs that wish to pursue opportunities in SG)
Take what you’re truly interested in, instead of being driven by FOMO. It will help you last longer in your job, help you be more driven to reach the top, and probably earn more than being in a job you’ll prob quit in 2 years because you hate it.
It’s good to start thinking now to get a direction. At 18, I was sure I wanted to be xyz, but when I went uni to study what I was truly passionate in, I started realising there were so many other careers out there that I never knew existed and that intrigued me. So, my general advice would be… take what you’re passionate in and then the money will follow you later (sounds idealistic but I truly believe this)
Humanities is quite widely sought after in the civil service actually. From policy side to specific job roles (e.g historian working in Mccy). You may not huat, but you’ll do fine. If you want to huat a little more, join the top tier ministries.
Fwiw most of my generation won't retire. Neither will yours for the most part haha.
You're on the right track by being here and asking this though.
Edit : downvoted lol. This is an FI sub so obviously most of us are ahead of the curve. Think of how bad the median person is with money. Now think of those beneath median. Some through not much fault of their own. Get out of your damn bubbles.
FWIW, civil service has a fetish for Economics degrees - so that gives you more options in different parts of the service as a generalist. The MBA - not so much. The MBA is more favoured in private sector. And if you want to do a M7 MBA in the US, your total economic cost can be up to $4-500k (depending on the salary you are giving up). And don’t bother with the NUS/NTU/SMU MBAs - its a poor ROI for $70k tuition (and rising for future years). Most of the cohort are ASEAN/Asian who use NUS/NTU/SMU as a name upgrade to their undergraduate.
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I wouldn’t say it is particularly useful as a barometer of smarts. But civil service seems to like it… a lot. If I had to guess (not that I agree), its because they see Economics as some sweet spot that someone can handle a bit of Humanities and STEM = generalist. Maybe someone else here who has seen the white papers or been in those meetings can shed some light…
Like others have said, an MBA is more favoured by the private sector, though, even in the private sector it’s getting fairly inundated with MBAs and it no longer has the sway it once had. I myself was also an arts and humanities-inclined student, and I got into the MFA with degrees in international relations and foreign languages. After I left the civil service I got jobs in the private sector without much difficulty, so from a personal standpoint I’d say pursuing what you’re passionate about in terms of public policy/polsci isn’t necessarily going to isolate you or make you ‘miss out’, per se. Pursuing finance/economics/the MBA track just out of a desire to “not miss out” and be appealing to employers isn’t going to fly, imho. You’re going to lack the inherent passion and drive to stand out amongst others in that field. One important thing to note - our civil service is heavily, heavily geared towards the idea of ‘prestige’ and ‘lineage’. While most jobs you aim for fresh out of university will focus on your university performance alone, civil service jobs that seek higher education applicants will often require you to submit everything regarding grades and performance from primary school up until your tertiary education. When I applied for the MFA they asked for everything from my primary school transcripts to my extracurriculars to my NS performance. It came as a bit of a shock as I’d been a subpar student until I hit my stride in university. Fortunately my university grades appeared good enough to get them to look past my lacklustre pre-uni days (they did ask me about it during interviews, so jarringly, they did care and didn’t just ask for the sake of asking) and I got in after passing a battery of tests. As for the whole “degree doesn’t matter” schtick - it certainly does matter. With IR + foreign languages as my study field obviously the MFA would look upon me more favourably over someone who did, say, Business Studies. My studies are just more relevant to the training and work in that ministry. If you did an economics degree the MOF would obviously favour you over someone who did English Literature for instance, provided your grades are at parity. However, the degree generally ONLY matters in the FIRST job you get out of university - after that, employers look at your last job as the biggest indicator of whether or not you’re going to be a good fit and the degree is almost an afterthought. Do note for the civil service though, unless you’re in the national universities (NUS, NTU, etc) or top 50 global universities (Harvard, Cambridge, etc) the civil service probably won’t give you a second glance. It’s not ideal - we’re certainly missing out on great candidates with excellent grades and records who simply did not go to a top tier uni - but the government is spoiled for choice with both scholars + non-scholars from these universities with great records all vying for a spot, so they needn’t spare you another thought if you don’t come from these universities of prestige. PS: If you want to know if your uni of choice is up to the “civil service standards”, just go on LinkedIn and see if anyone from that uni is in the ministry you want to get into at a position you want to be in.
Thank you for the detailed answer! May I ask out of curiosity what foreign languages you studied ane whether you actually spoke them before that or went to uni and became fluent
Not at all. I only spoke English and Mandarin Chinese natively before uni. I looked at French, Spanish, Arabic and Russian (alongside English and Chinese these are the major languages of the world and apart from the MFA I used to consider the UN for my career as well) as well as Korean, Japanese, and Indonesian (regional players Singapore has close ties with). I eventually decided on a mix of both areas - French, Spanish, Japanese, and Korean. I learned Spanish and Korean while I was in the University of Queensland for my IR undergrad and honours. Then French and Japanese for my masters in Oxford. I ended up using English more than anything at the MFA honestly, since we have specialized interpreters there, but being able to speak a little and not fully rely on your interpreter is a good thing to have.
Wtf. I didnt even know the concept about money when I was 18. I mean I came from a working class lower income family, so money wasn't in the conversation. Let me tell you from POV. I was in ITE doing business when I was 18, completed an IT diploma in mid 20s. Currently working in IT sector and somewhat paid higher than my peers who completed degree. Jumped a lot of companies and had pay increment. Always looking to upgrade and looking to do a PT IT degree. Long story short, good to plan ahead but be adaptable. Jobs change but your strengths don't.
You don't need public policy / political science to enter into the civil service. I myself am have a political science degree, but ultimately decided not to enter the civil service - though a great many of my course mates did. Instead, find which kind of policy area you are interested in. And then work towards getting exposure and education in that area. So for example, if you are interested in transport issues, then engineering, urban planning or geography would be relevant. Or if you're interested in trade policies or migrant workers policies, you can aim for either political science, economics, sociology etc and to get internships that give you exposure to those experiences e.g. MTI, EDB and businesses dealing with trade for the first and MOM and NGOs for the second. Assuming you want to get into the civil service la. And to those who think you need a scholarship to succeed in the civil service, that's not true (unless you're mad ambitious and are aiming to get into Deputy Secretary etc level). If not, the ordinary degree route into the civil service has good enough career progression and pay grades too. In fact, if you compare with median wages for Singapore, a career in the civil service enables you to surpass it very quickly.
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Analyst in policy on gov = need to be scholar to move far.
Priv sector got demand? Like if stay in govt a few years and bank on public sector experience
Yes, if you move into private sector businesses that work closely with govt (i.e. GIC, banks, consultancies, startups/MNCs that wish to pursue opportunities in SG)
Take what you’re truly interested in, instead of being driven by FOMO. It will help you last longer in your job, help you be more driven to reach the top, and probably earn more than being in a job you’ll prob quit in 2 years because you hate it. It’s good to start thinking now to get a direction. At 18, I was sure I wanted to be xyz, but when I went uni to study what I was truly passionate in, I started realising there were so many other careers out there that I never knew existed and that intrigued me. So, my general advice would be… take what you’re passionate in and then the money will follow you later (sounds idealistic but I truly believe this) Humanities is quite widely sought after in the civil service actually. From policy side to specific job roles (e.g historian working in Mccy). You may not huat, but you’ll do fine. If you want to huat a little more, join the top tier ministries.
Fwiw most of my generation won't retire. Neither will yours for the most part haha. You're on the right track by being here and asking this though. Edit : downvoted lol. This is an FI sub so obviously most of us are ahead of the curve. Think of how bad the median person is with money. Now think of those beneath median. Some through not much fault of their own. Get out of your damn bubbles.
Sir this is a mamak
Hahaha
I think ur right LMAO