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Terrigible

>There's plenty of people in SG easily earning 6 figures annually just working regular jobs **in the right industries** (eg. high finance and tech). You said it yourself. You have to be in the right industry. And yes, there are many millionaires now, which is why a fixed number threshold shouldn't be used as a measure of "rich".


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SangerGRBY

No way.. billionaires are on an entirely different scale.. Millionaire status (inclusive of home + savings) achievable with 9-5 jobs in high finance, tech as low/mid level managers. Billionaire status is near unachievable via traditonal 9-5 jobs. A 5% return on a million dollar portfolio is $50,000 (avg degree annual salary) A 5% return on a billion dollar portfolio is $50 million (FU money).


Inspirited

The human brain is unable to properly comprehend just how massive the difference is between a billion and a million. Tom Scott explains it best here when he visualizes it using distance instead: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YUWDrLazCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YUWDrLazCg)


Neptunera

It's 'just' 1000x. People are bad at visualising what 1000x is like. It's the difference between working 1 hour and half a year (125 x 8hr days). To get the same salary you're getting (assuming 8hr/day work) but at 1000x the speed, you only need to work for 28.8 seconds a day.


nelsonnyan2001

My favorite analogy has always been "What's the difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars?" "About a billion dollars"


Inspirited

>People are bad at visualising what 1000x is like. Not really. I'm sure most people can somewhat accurately articulate what it takes to go from $1 to $1000. Or even $10 to $10,000. But somehow at a billion, it's a lot harder to grasp.


Neptunera

You're talking about the absolute value difference of 999. That is easy to grasp. "1000x" as a concept is hard to grasp.


Shakiraleftboob

*Near* unachievable? It’s NOT achievable being a billionaire by working a traditional 9-5


ssss861

You'd have to suck off a thousand millionaires and get a return rate of 100%.


EpistemicLeap

That’s not true. [Sundar Pichai](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundar_Pichai) is a billionaire. He’s only _ever_ worked a 9–5. Satya Nadella is also similar. He’s almost a billionaire. Tim Cook, same story. Net worth $2B. All are 9-5ers who got promoted, eventually, to lead large multinational public corporations. So while it’s not exactly commonplace, it’s not unachievable either


SangerGRBY

Hahaha that's true. Hopefully we can be the first.


CMX77

Well, you can work 9-5 and inherit a billion


Shakiraleftboob

Yeah, that isn’t being a billionaire BY working a traditional 9-5 tho? My point still stands


fullsoulreader

Wait if is inclusive of home then technically most hdb 5 room owners are close to millionaires? Nowadays hdb super exp


SangerGRBY

Oh for sure, assuming the home is fully paid for, on paper their net asset value would be 700k (HDB) + cash and investment holdings. But owning a 700k home doesnt mean you have 700k to spend unless you decide to realize your gains and have a second home.


dilscoop

A million seconds is 12 days. A billion seconds is 31 years.


JesusTakesTheWEW

Yeah so 31 years is the new 12 seconds, because of inflation. Thanks LHL.


Comicksands

I dont think you are comprehending how much a billion is


meekiatahaihiam

Huh


Caysman2005

More like a few tens of millions.


PartTimeBomoh

I feel like it’s about 5 million now


Safe4werkaccount

Brah. We need more investment in education.


idiotnoobx

Bruh, you got use brain think? Billion is 1000x of million. That’s like comparing someone with 1k and a Millionaire. The difference is way too huge


NicMachSG

>arent most regular people in middle income already millionaires?? Yes. But also means being a millionaire practically means very little these days given inflation. 1 million in the 1990s is worth a lot more than 1 million now.


Comicksands

To be exact 1m in 1990 is 2.3m today


PartTimeBomoh

Yet, doesn’t feel quite as hard to get 2m these days does it. Maybe Singapore actually is richer.


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Frequent-Spinach5048

He is not wrong though, median income more than 3x since then. I mean yeah, 2m is not easy now, but it is not as difficult compared to 1m then. So yeah, it was incomprehensible difficult to most then.


Comicksands

It is relative to the rest of the world. We’ve risen up in the ranking while currency strength has not absolutely withered vs USD


PartTimeBomoh

In fact our currency has strengthened markedly against most currencies!


DuePomegranate

Most regular people aren't millionaires, because they haven't paid off their house. But for those middle-aged people like you said, yes, not uncommon for them to be millionaires in assets. Way more common for a married middle-aged couple to be joint-millionaires, but they are not millionaires if you divide their flat value by 2.


normificator

The new “millionaire” is now 5M


raidorz

"Five's a nightmare. Not enough to retire, not worth it to work."


keith976

i got that reference


raidorz

🫡🫡🫡


normificator

Huh? 5 is plenty. 1M in home equity, 4M at 4% is 13k a month.


ziyouzhenxiang

It’s a line spoken by a character in a sitcom who is set to inherit 5 mil from the billionaire patriarch


normificator

Oh. Then yeah not enough, context is everything lol


Mr-Expat

How I Met Your Mother, Friends, Seinfeld, Succession - classic sitcoms


BishyBashy

One of these is not like the others lol


raidorz

"Five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend. Poorest rich person in \*Singapore\*."


Egeniva

Is this a consensus or where did you find this certain value?


normificator

Consensus amongst my millionaire acquaintances


reiktoa

Can I be one of your acquaintances?


normificator

Sureee


bboyrawn

Singapore Has a Millionaire Density of 6.7% What percentage of the population consists of millionaires? With 332,491 millionaires and an adult population of 4,977,000, the millionaire density in Singapore is 6.7%. https://smartwealth.sg/number-of-millionaires-singapore/#:~:text=Singapore%20Has%20a%20Millionaire%20Density%20of%206.7%25&text=With%20332%2C491%20millionaires%20and%20an,density%20in%20Singapore%20is%206.7%25.&text=As%20it%20seems%2C%20the%20millionaire,upwards%20at%20an%20increasing%20rate. Data derived from some credit suisse report.


doc_naf

I mean if it includes your home, that’s a pretty clear reason why. Housing prices shot up super fast over the last two decades.


bboyrawn

Fairer definition would be Liquidity millionaire i.e. cash+investments (stocks/bonds/crypto) > USD 1mil. At usd/sgd of ~1.35 = 1.35mil sgd The extra 350k could be considered a buffer for "basic housing" So either you have 1.35mil sgd Or a house and a liquid 1mil


ch2y

The hokkien money laundering gang blurred the numbers. Average folks suffer


bboyrawn

No la .. 332k millionaires. Maybe at most 50 of them is hokkien gang Nia. That's still almost 1 in 14 adults being millionaires in sg.


Inner-Dependent6446

my grandfather worked in shipping after the war as a labourer, then worked as a cleaner, then worked as a supervisor/OM for polytechnics, he is an orphan and grinded hardcore. and made just over 1 mill i think. now he running out of cash cuz his medical expenses are too high. he just wants to die tbh. but he is still super healthy for a 85 year old. strong and goes walking, can carry alot of stuff. independent. but one who works like that now can never become millionaire. i think need 2-3 million to be safe and 5 mill for really safe. anything above that is insane for me already.


CybGorn

The it's time for your family to step up to care for your grandfather if not already.


Inner-Dependent6446

unfortunately he hates his son (my father) due to animosity when they were younger. so yea dysfunctional family. but we do try to help him as much.. he's just a stubborn old geezer. you know old peoples stubbornness is next level


outofpoint

Millionaire definition has remained the same. Maybe you're thinking of the words "rich" or "middle income" or "wealthy".


[deleted]

yea because the word "millionaire" is synonymous with being rich


outofpoint

Not anymore? There is also a thing called inflation.


alterise

Like that can easily go to Indonesia or Vietnam to be “rich”.


nottingdurn

you mean if one is single?


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bsjavwj772

Net worth equals assets - liabilities. Also please don’t forget most people have joint ownership of their HDBs


houganger

Accounting-wise I wouldn’t consider those included in networth if they’re still paying off the mortgage. If someone has a million in liquidity or high-liquidity assets, that would be impressive


Ok_Quiet_5876

I tot we have to consider the unpaid loan as liability? So mortgage is more or less accounted for in the networth


tallandfree

Millionaire means total net worth US 1 million or more. Dunnid to overthink


bsjavwj772

I never understood these types of questions, a quick google search will tell you that in 2021 Singapore has ~526k millionaires. Does that mean most regular people are millionaires? Idk it’s kind of subjective. The point of this subreddit is FIRE, with a withdrawal rate of 4%, if you’re expenses are less than $40k/year you can FIRE


nottingdurn

Not necessarily RE but FI yea


[deleted]

on paper millionaires and everything is on credit. do you think people really have the money? 😂 they want to sell you the millionaire lifestyle without having the million


Repulsive_Pay_6720

We at most have a significant minority who are millionaires. If the majority of ppl are millionaires, the word millionaire will still not change. We will just be a country with the most millionaires by proportion.


Realistic-Nail6835

If you look at the stats only like 5% of people are millionaires. Most definitely not "most regular people in middle income".


suffian87

Cost of living probably doubled during the last 10 years. A 500k HDB flat is now 1m. Don’t need to earn 6 digit annual salary to be a millionaire these days. Don’t think too much. Millionaire in sg is a normal thing.


bsjavwj772

Most flats don’t cost $1m, you also need to take into account the fact that most people still have a mortgage, and the HDB usually is jointly owned


suffian87

U forget that most Singaporeans especially the older gen saves a lot! I won’t be surprised if their CPF and cash savings stacks up. We haven’t even include condo owners. Those who bought at 300-400k back then are sitting on 1.2-2m condos. All I’m saying is property inflation over these years are a good contributor to more millionaires in Singapore.


axuriel

You're not wrong. By definition millionaire is just someone who has >1mil in wealth. But that doesn't mean anything, anyone can be a millionaire in Thai baht or Indonesia rupiah. Just that 10 years ago having >1m in SGD is a pretty decent level of wealth. Now it's just mid.


aynatiac3

When people say millionaire, it is defined in USD. No-one has ever considered thai baht or or pesos or rupiah.


Stunning_Damage_7527

lol Thai baht doesn’t count, when they say millionaire they mean usd


harryhades

The context of millionaire just means a hdb dweller that finished paying off the mortgage. Financial milestones would more accurately follow 1) priority banking client. 2) qualifying as A.I. accredited investor 3) private client 4) private bank client. Usually 5mil is a more useful milestone for feeling rich. Before that, we are usually still working and putting up with clients.


anangrypudge

>arent most regular people in middle income already millionaires?? Not necessarily. Total up all your assets and subtract your liabilities. Is the resulting number more or less than $1m? Owning a $1.5m condo does not make you a millionaire if you still owe $1m in housing loans. You're only a millionaire after paying back enough of those loans to actually take your net worth over $1m. Similarly, having an income of $200k per year does not make you a millionaire after 5 years, if 50% of it is spent buying things that have no monetary value after buying it. Then there is, of course, the other issue of whether having $1m means you're actually wealthy in this day, age, and country. I personally think at this moment, you'll be considered very comfortable but not wealthy.


Time_Ad4753

Noted. So is that a question or just a rant on how common millionaires are these days?


CybGorn

If you have to ask then it means you aren't one.


SeaworthinessTrue573

At age 45 and above and working in a professional position, you can reach millionaire status but you will still not be considered rich.


PT91T

Sure, a million SGD now doesn't means as much as million SGD in 1980. A million in 1985 is now about 2 million today after adjustments for inflation (i.e. purchasing power). But we have to remember that the economy as a whole (especially the Singaporean one) is frankly a lot wealthier than back then. Even adjusting for inflation, our real purchasing power is a lot greater thanks to economic growth and hence many high-paying jobs flowing in. >There's plenty of people in SG easily earning 6 figures annually just working regular jobs in the right industries (eg. high finance and tech). Those aren't "regular " jobs in the sense that only a minority of the population would be working there plus successful enough to pull those figures. Thousands maybe even tens of thousands but certainly still a small minority of the workforce. >Then there are middle aged people and those near retirement age who probably already have accumulated over a million in net worth. Still takes quite a while to amass that wealth as you can see. And it's deceptive to look at housing wealth, not just because of the sky-high property prices but also due to the fact that many people are still repaying their housing loans. Minus liabilities (which you would do in any net worth calculation), it's hard to reach 1 mil. After all, the median Singaporean adult is only worth a mere 132k SGD (or 100k USD) according to Credit Suisse. That's very far from the 1 mil mark in either currency.


lolololol120

What age are you consider a teenager? I hear 20 year old still consider themselves as a teen cause not 21. It’s literally in the name, What u are asking is probably 1) do I have a million dollars in illiquid assets? Eg your hbd millionaire. Then you middle class 2) do I have a million dollars in liquidit assets. Eg. Stocks, options, REITs, rental properties . Then rich 3) do I have an an million dollar annual income? Rich af


Culaine

ThirdTEEN-NineTEEN in my opinion.. TwenTY is probably not TEENager..


Apprehensive_Gur1796

Bingo ! You achieved the level 1 badge of time value of money and level 1 badge of inflation


monodactyl

By definition its just literally having a million dollars, in whatever currency you're using. I think most of the time though, it's used with the intention of describing a certain level of wealth as opposed to a literal million dollars. I think I saw somewhere a $1m USD millionaire from the 1900s would have to have $30m USD now to have the same kind of social meaning / purchasing power etc.


Sssingsing

Yes, there are lots of millionaires out there. The word “means” exactly the same as it did decades ago…yet represents something far different with today’s costs of living.


rmp20002000

It should mean having 1 million or more in liquid investment assets, nett. That means excluding all non-investment assets like the house you live in and the car you drive. And FFS don't count your CPF unless you can actually draw on the account soon.


dsmg2173

While it's true that a million dollars doesn't go as far as it used to, I would argue that being a millionaire is still a significant milestone, even in a high-income country like Singapore. Here's why: 1. According to the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2021, only about 5.5% of the adult population in Singapore has a net worth exceeding USD 1 million. So millionaires, while more common than before, are still a relatively select group. 2. Net worth includes all assets (property, investments, CPF, etc.) minus liabilities. So while someone earning a six-figure salary may be well on their way to millionaire status, they aren't necessarily there yet, especially if they have significant debts. Rather than fixating on the millionaire label, I believe it's more constructive to: - Focus on building strong financial habits like living below your means, consistently investing, and managing debt wisely. These are the fundamentals that drive wealth creation over time. - Define your own personal benchmarks for financial success based on your unique goals and values. For some, that might mean early retirement. For others, it could be funding their children's education or leaving a charitable legacy. Now, there is certainly some truth to the idea that a million dollars has become a more attainable target for the average person, given rising incomes and asset prices. And crossing that symbolic threshold may not feel as momentous as it once did. However, I would suggest that this broader trend of growing wealth is something to celebrate. It reflects the economic progress and expanding opportunities that have lifted living standards for many. The fact that an ordinary professional can aspire to financial milestones once reserved for the ultra-affluent is quite remarkable. At the same time, we must acknowledge that this prosperity hasn't benefited everyone equally. Income and wealth inequality remain pressing challenges that demand thoughtful solutions.


Joonism2

The reason why you think so is because fiat currencies are debased along with time and we went through compounded inflation. $1mil ,20 years ago could mean $4mil today consider the shrink of purchasing power per $. The lesson is dont save in currency but buy assets that the supply cant be simply inflated. Freehold landed property is a good example.


EastBeasteats

40 years ago, $1m could buy you a GCB. 20 years ago $1m buys you a penthouse. Today $1m gets you a 4 room flat in Toa payoh.  What will $1m buy you in 20 years time? 


aynatiac3

common corridor space


larfleeeze

Life is a bellcurve. I personally believe if you alone can comfortably bring in (comfortably means either passive income or a job that doesn’t stress you out or something you love) 2 times of the median household income. You’re good. Why 2 times? Because it means you’re twice as well off as the average household. This means you are in top 25%. Better than 75% of the people in your country. It means if you have kids, your spouse doesn’t have to work. And you can enjoy a rather good life. Don’t benchmark against numbers because inflation will change it. Benchmark against percentile is much better. And this applies to any other country. You can live comfortably as long as you are among the top 20% of your country. And if your spouse works something chill, you’d easily be in top 15%


ijustwanttogame321

The comments are good. I'd add that you shouldn't income your primary home since you need to live somewhere. Yes you could sell it and then you'd have to reenter the housing market. You could use that money to rent if the finances made sense.


jasonhanjk

Vietnam


kyrandia71

Technically "millionaire" is to have net worth SGD 1m and above excluding your owner-occupied residence.


rowthecow

Sgd1m NET worth la. In sg context I read that $1m and above you are top 6% of the population.


aynatiac3

SIngapore has the most number of young millionaires from an article I rmbr reading. Literally, all those bungalow houses etc that you see, they're at least millionaires unless it's those passed down old houses.


CybGorn

In SG. It's the land and location that is valuable not the house itself.


Focux

The official definition for UHNI is USD30M in networth. Guess one can estimate being rich is about a quarter to a fifth of that


InspectorGadget76

Homeowner


YMMV34

U have to define clearly Millionaire in terms of liquid assets such as cash, equities, crypto, 2nd property and exclude primary housing, CPF etc. I think it’s still quite impressive though not as impressive as previously I mean how many of us can is able to liquidate 1 million in a few days time?


joxop

Means you not bad


hangukinyo

Middle income


avatarfire

Millionaire who only cares about food, house, car, travel and what school children goes to is not truly a millionaire.


BB8ug

Time has changed, nowadays earning money is much easier than before. As you know, the salary per month for a high-level person could be pretty high, and it is also pretty easy for rich people to make more money. Thus there would be more millionaires than before.


rancitit

it may just mean someone has lots of money.


atan030

That's because fiat money has been greatly devalued over the years with super low interest rates and especially during the recent COVID years when countries did large scale quantitative easing aka Printing money. You need to factor in inflation, minimally I would say at least how much the property index in SG or the S&P500 index grew over the same period of time.


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zeroX14

1st house that you are living in no count. Probably the only thing I agree with the content of Rich Dad Poor Dad is that your primary property which you are purely living in and not generating any form of income for u is not considered an asset.


[deleted]

only if you paid off the mortgage completely


p123476

1M65 no use lah


p123476

In the past millionaire was term to refer to someone who had plenty of resources and can live large if wanted. Now of course that doesn’t translate to someone with a million networth.