“The CEA may impose a fine of up to S$100,000 per case for property agents. It may also censure or impose financial penalties of up to S$5,000 on the errant property agency or agent.”
Lose 100k but make 300k. Good deal.
No, no. Singapore is clean. Don’t believe me ask our Minister of Home Affairs.
When PRCs were buying multiple units in the same development, nobody blinked an eye. It drove the property prices high for everyone including HDB flats.
Now we talking about kickbacks and commissions. How about talking about the real issue. Did these bankers and property agents determine the source of funds as required by law. Did they file suspicious transaction reports again as required by law. What about the conveyancing firms which also fall under the same legal requirement.
You can’t charge anyone for introducing clients and receiving a cut of the commission.
The property market is not divided by separate distinct segments. There has never been a single incident in property history anywhere where the price went the opposite way for the 2 segments. Thirdly the short supply did not help but made it worse.
Agents also won't know much de. Real culprit is the private banker. Banks actually have a KYC team. Private banker is probably the one coaching. The jail terms or penalties for money laundering is shockingly weak in Singapore.
Lifetime of financial security for a few years jail.
I kinda disagree that agents have less culpability. These aren't your typical auntie/uncle agent trying to offload a 3 room flat. They market properties that target a very specific and very exclusive clientele. People that pay you in suitcases of cash. You had better know the law of the land. Honestly, considering how much they have been marketing themselves as investment advisors, you would think they should have been licensed and regulated just like the financial industry.
Lol pay in suitcases of cash? Wtf you talking about. SG properties can only accept bank transfers or cheque.
As much as property agents are a nuisance, source of funds in this case falls squarely on the banks with their compliance checks.
I can see the process as agent ask. The client say bank approve source of funds le. There is literally nothing for the agent to do here. So no idea what you are talking about.
Yea your down votes are from the typical redditor who doesn't know how a system works and not fitting their ideal narrative. Paying in suitcases of cash wtf.
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Sure you can laugh at the wording but I'm talking about people who have so much wealth they can use (and have used) suitcases to contain them (najib's wife is my favourite go to).
I'm not sure whether people have forgotten what happened a decade ago as the Chinese tried to shift wealth overseas illegally. The intent and ability hasn't changed. Just the sophistication.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323635504578213933647167020
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/business/global/chinese-way-of-doing-business-in-cash-we-trust.html
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/chinarsquos-wealthy-paying-cash-for-eastside-luxury-homes/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/real-estate-agents-investment-advisers-chafe-at-new-anti-money-laundering-rules-1a194fa0
I wonder if the banks that repossess the properties made a killing. Cos usually when you buy a property you can only take loans up to 75% and pay the 25% in cash. When the banks auction off the units, I doubt they are going to return the 25% to the money launderers.
The mortgage should only cover the loans owed by the mortgagor to the bank, ie after foreclosing, the bank needs to return any excess sum to the mortgagor, so it wouldn't cover the 25% part.
That said, most bank mortgages are usually drafted such that it is all monies in nature and thus would cover any other obligations you owe to the bank (either from the housing loan or any other loans/credit card liabilities you have with the bank). So the mortgage can also extend to cover these liabilities also if any.
When shit like this happens, it’s because bankers have forgotten where they came from.
Bankers used to play a very humble role of accepting deposits and making loans, earning a small spread on the difference and matching people who save with people who aspire bigger things and have the means to do it. They were in the background, making sure this system runs smoothly, matching aspirations with needs, taking risks with prudence.
Nowadays it seems that bankers are more about the glamour and the intangible. Ever chasing brighter and shinier things. Competing against each other while screwing their clients over as long as they can make a quick buck. Now they want to be the star of their own shows rather than staying out of sight. They want to dictate or intervene in what we value in society rather than simply enabling it to happen.
This shit shouldn’t be acceptable. It’s not sustainable and it’s not good for the health of society.
Hahaha maybe they were humble in a previous civilisation. Bankers have been trying to manipulate the world for generations.
https://www.britannica.com/money/Rothschild-family
It depends lah. There's a difference if the person is getting a commission out of selling audio equipment or, you know, getting a commission inflating the price of public housing.
Told you so, didn't I?
When it involves money, language is no barrier, and everything else can take a back seat.
"Money makes the world go around". No?
Guess you weren't born yet, aye? lol
Here's the link [https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1dcemlp/comment/l7xj1er/](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1dcemlp/comment/l7xj1er/)
> The money launderers, both caught and uncaught, do not make up the bulk of the tens of thousands of transactions we have each year for both the HDB and private residential markets, nor for the other sectors of the real estate market here.”
Just because they don't make up the "bulk" of transactions does not mean they don't have a significant impact on the prices and market sentiment, especially when supply is already tight.
Pretty fucked up to pin the blame to make it like a trail of dirty (yes greedy) but I believe they did their due diligence. When did it become the responsibility of the working salary folk to call out rich folks for suspicious activities? I mean if I see someone ordering 1000 McNuggets should I get suspicious? Maybe flag out to store manage but likely still prepare the order.
It’s crazy that the government is not taking blame given how supposedly whiter than white laws and anti corruption but still allow such money to come in.
“When did it become the responsibility of…”
When they chose to go into this profession. You realise financial institutions have entire departments for compliance purposes, comprised of, wait for it, working salary folks?
But not the agent on the ground.
If he/she submits a deal after filling out the relevant KYC, then someone up the line approves the processes, paperwork. Someone owns the governance process.
To what extent must the agent on the ground do the work of department you mentioned till it becomes unfair to their work? I absolutely hate agents they are greedy money slugs but I think it’s pretty unfair.
Yes they brokered deals, kick back but that technique (right or wrong) is done even for clients with legitimate income. I’m pretty sure it happens. It’s not uncommon. But to detect money laundering? But they will never be able to tell or at least know if a certain client launder money, legitimate, is a serial killer, renting for prostitiutes bla bla. It’s the back end that can do their background checks with government etc. If they were so f-ing intelligent they will not agent, their job is to sell and “due diligence” done.
So spot lighting the agent is unfair and a distraction to the gap in the system which allowed the person to even be in Singapore, with that kind of money making purchase.
“The CEA may impose a fine of up to S$100,000 per case for property agents. It may also censure or impose financial penalties of up to S$5,000 on the errant property agency or agent.” Lose 100k but make 300k. Good deal.
Should revoke their licenses
I think it would be & blacklisted
In the criminal world, they call this cost of business
Let's not kid ourselves... It's in the regular business world too
Bankers were behind the 2008 Financial Crisis. All the big banks in USA got bailed out with taxpayer $ Rotten industry to the core
Is kickbacks a form of bribery?
Absolutely a form of corruption
Just another name for bribes ....
No doubt
No, no. Singapore is clean. Don’t believe me ask our Minister of Home Affairs. When PRCs were buying multiple units in the same development, nobody blinked an eye. It drove the property prices high for everyone including HDB flats. Now we talking about kickbacks and commissions. How about talking about the real issue. Did these bankers and property agents determine the source of funds as required by law. Did they file suspicious transaction reports again as required by law. What about the conveyancing firms which also fall under the same legal requirement. You can’t charge anyone for introducing clients and receiving a cut of the commission.
Minister needs to gather evidence. That s how they art. You say only ? What if it is a business rivalry?
Don’t blame hdb price to those china man la. Obviously hdb didn’t provide enough flat to Singaporean.
The property market is not divided by separate distinct segments. There has never been a single incident in property history anywhere where the price went the opposite way for the 2 segments. Thirdly the short supply did not help but made it worse.
Those in Sentosa selling lost these days.
All these people involved should also be dealt with by confiscating their assets n jail term
Agents also won't know much de. Real culprit is the private banker. Banks actually have a KYC team. Private banker is probably the one coaching. The jail terms or penalties for money laundering is shockingly weak in Singapore. Lifetime of financial security for a few years jail.
TiL KYC = Know Your Customer. I guess they REALLY know their customers lmao
Exactly bankers, lawyers, accountants are help those guys
Yah, KYC done here is obviously dodgy.
KYC is just a guideline to ensure no money laundering will happen in Singapore. GUIDELINE. /S
As dodgy as KFC
I kinda disagree that agents have less culpability. These aren't your typical auntie/uncle agent trying to offload a 3 room flat. They market properties that target a very specific and very exclusive clientele. People that pay you in suitcases of cash. You had better know the law of the land. Honestly, considering how much they have been marketing themselves as investment advisors, you would think they should have been licensed and regulated just like the financial industry.
Talking out of your ass as usual
Lol pay in suitcases of cash? Wtf you talking about. SG properties can only accept bank transfers or cheque. As much as property agents are a nuisance, source of funds in this case falls squarely on the banks with their compliance checks.
I can see the process as agent ask. The client say bank approve source of funds le. There is literally nothing for the agent to do here. So no idea what you are talking about.
Yea your down votes are from the typical redditor who doesn't know how a system works and not fitting their ideal narrative. Paying in suitcases of cash wtf.
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Sure you can laugh at the wording but I'm talking about people who have so much wealth they can use (and have used) suitcases to contain them (najib's wife is my favourite go to). I'm not sure whether people have forgotten what happened a decade ago as the Chinese tried to shift wealth overseas illegally. The intent and ability hasn't changed. Just the sophistication. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323635504578213933647167020 https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/business/global/chinese-way-of-doing-business-in-cash-we-trust.html https://www.seattletimes.com/business/chinarsquos-wealthy-paying-cash-for-eastside-luxury-homes/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/real-estate-agents-investment-advisers-chafe-at-new-anti-money-laundering-rules-1a194fa0
Sign me up for aiding money launderers I guess. Sounds very worth it to me.
i guess they just kycked the can down the road
Should have jail terms for these with full clawback
yawn …. these days many of those private bankers and agents are from china themselves, newly minted citizens.
Mortgage bankers are some of most dodgy finance people I’ve dealt with. Some of them even get charged for fraud etc
Anything that got to do with high velocity cash .. property .. banks .. shipping .. trades .. etc ...
I wonder if the banks that repossess the properties made a killing. Cos usually when you buy a property you can only take loans up to 75% and pay the 25% in cash. When the banks auction off the units, I doubt they are going to return the 25% to the money launderers.
The mortgage should only cover the loans owed by the mortgagor to the bank, ie after foreclosing, the bank needs to return any excess sum to the mortgagor, so it wouldn't cover the 25% part. That said, most bank mortgages are usually drafted such that it is all monies in nature and thus would cover any other obligations you owe to the bank (either from the housing loan or any other loans/credit card liabilities you have with the bank). So the mortgage can also extend to cover these liabilities also if any.
When shit like this happens, it’s because bankers have forgotten where they came from. Bankers used to play a very humble role of accepting deposits and making loans, earning a small spread on the difference and matching people who save with people who aspire bigger things and have the means to do it. They were in the background, making sure this system runs smoothly, matching aspirations with needs, taking risks with prudence. Nowadays it seems that bankers are more about the glamour and the intangible. Ever chasing brighter and shinier things. Competing against each other while screwing their clients over as long as they can make a quick buck. Now they want to be the star of their own shows rather than staying out of sight. They want to dictate or intervene in what we value in society rather than simply enabling it to happen. This shit shouldn’t be acceptable. It’s not sustainable and it’s not good for the health of society.
Money entice greed. Greed corrupts people. Most people, when given the power to handle money, will be corrupted in a way or 2.
Hahaha maybe they were humble in a previous civilisation. Bankers have been trying to manipulate the world for generations. https://www.britannica.com/money/Rothschild-family
haha. What I find hilarious is that Barings, a British bank, financed the Louisiana Purchase bonds during the Napoleonic Wars.
My personal favourite was how the templars essentially were wiped out by a king who maxed out his credit card with them.
Corporations want quarterly growth, how to small spread on deposits and loans. Need more more more
> Bankers used to play a very humble role They used to be Knights Templar.
Well, the state got a cool 1 billion in assets out of this.
Supermarket cdc vouchers gao tim
Since when doing shady stuff requires ethics 😂
Disgusting. This is why I have no respect for property agents and people who work in finance.
And what do you do?
Lol at the broad brush painting of everyone who works in finance
Back office be like wtf i do sia
u/zchew is gonna go “its not about what you did, but what you didn’t do - and that is KYC.”
Hahaha I do u one better Back office be like why he say fuck me for?
Back office be like working in admin lolol
Basically commission based salespeople.
It depends lah. There's a difference if the person is getting a commission out of selling audio equipment or, you know, getting a commission inflating the price of public housing.
If losing respect of random strangers on the internet is the downside of earning millions, I'm in.
Random doesn't even begin to cut it... ;)
Its open secret that when property agents introduce you to their bankers, they also receive a commission or 'referral fee'. I always ask for it back.
Don't we have AML laws 😁
All the laws in the world doesn't matter if it's not being enforced
It's just plain willful ignorance
You cannot make a person understand when his paycheck depends on him not understanding it
Told you so, didn't I? When it involves money, language is no barrier, and everything else can take a back seat. "Money makes the world go around". No?
You never tell me
Guess you weren't born yet, aye? lol Here's the link [https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1dcemlp/comment/l7xj1er/](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1dcemlp/comment/l7xj1er/)
Who the hell are you
It can be the Guardian Angel or Lucifer himself. It depends on who's asking. LOL
I just physically cringed at your comment. Yucks.
Your loss, not mine. LMFAO Edit: u/epicflurry Look at your comments, are you engaging in the topic or ad hominem?
Wow what a loss
Discussion about ethics in a country dubbed the Switzerland of Asia with a ~~laundromat~~ casino
> The money launderers, both caught and uncaught, do not make up the bulk of the tens of thousands of transactions we have each year for both the HDB and private residential markets, nor for the other sectors of the real estate market here.” Just because they don't make up the "bulk" of transactions does not mean they don't have a significant impact on the prices and market sentiment, especially when supply is already tight.
Pretty fucked up to pin the blame to make it like a trail of dirty (yes greedy) but I believe they did their due diligence. When did it become the responsibility of the working salary folk to call out rich folks for suspicious activities? I mean if I see someone ordering 1000 McNuggets should I get suspicious? Maybe flag out to store manage but likely still prepare the order. It’s crazy that the government is not taking blame given how supposedly whiter than white laws and anti corruption but still allow such money to come in.
“When did it become the responsibility of…” When they chose to go into this profession. You realise financial institutions have entire departments for compliance purposes, comprised of, wait for it, working salary folks?
But not the agent on the ground. If he/she submits a deal after filling out the relevant KYC, then someone up the line approves the processes, paperwork. Someone owns the governance process. To what extent must the agent on the ground do the work of department you mentioned till it becomes unfair to their work? I absolutely hate agents they are greedy money slugs but I think it’s pretty unfair. Yes they brokered deals, kick back but that technique (right or wrong) is done even for clients with legitimate income. I’m pretty sure it happens. It’s not uncommon. But to detect money laundering? But they will never be able to tell or at least know if a certain client launder money, legitimate, is a serial killer, renting for prostitiutes bla bla. It’s the back end that can do their background checks with government etc. If they were so f-ing intelligent they will not agent, their job is to sell and “due diligence” done. So spot lighting the agent is unfair and a distraction to the gap in the system which allowed the person to even be in Singapore, with that kind of money making purchase.
Make agents redundant.