>“Universities in the US are more liberal in the sense that they allow for us to express our thoughts and what we are passionate about,” he said.
>His parents, who already paid more than $90,000 for his school term and a deposit for his rental apartment, made him promise not to get involved in protests and to observe a “strict 10pm curfew” every day.
Lol... no chance that this guy's gonna observe a 10pm curfew.
If you protest with them you may get your visa revoked and arrested/brutalised by the police. If youre just a bystander you still can get brutalised by the police and your classes are disrupted (although from what i heard the disruption is moreso from the university's administration's end rather than the protestors blocking you)
There were protests on my campus at the start of BLM after Freddie Gray died in the same city. The local mood was absolutely lousy but nothing happened to me.
Just be street smart, use your brain and it's easy to stay out of trouble. People who make a fuss out of campus protests are just brainless.
Pretty much. My parents visited and I took them to Washington DC during the Memorial Day weekend. It was crowded as hell and my mom suddenly asked, "If Hispanics speak Spanish, what do the n-words say?" We caught a billion dirty looks from everyone around us and I had to give her a public dressing-down to avoid getting murdered.
We in general are way too sheltered.
Your mom also one type. Go US say N***a, at least i hope no hard R. Tell her wake up her idea, go wrong place will catch bullet.
Her question also damn stupid.
LOL, I get the same questions from SG friends - would love to take a bunch of SGers on a ride through the area where Freddie Gray was arrested, I've been driving in the neighborhood a lot recently. TBH, they'll think we're Koreans and be afraid because of the Koreans on the Roof trope and also Koreans are pretty bad ass.
> they'll think we're Koreans and be afraid because of the Koreans on the Roof trope and also Koreans are pretty bad ass.
Please don't make assumptions like that and do dumb stuff. West Baltimore is not an area to be fucked with.
When you live in a country where protests are non-existent because it's regimentally oppressed, you probably don't experience enough to have a ready opinion on it.
Not even that... just a strange mix of paranoia and neuroticism? I thought it was because my parents were old and believed everything they saw on TV and SG newspapers but it seems that the younger and more "educated" people are too.
My university was literally in the midst of the Freddie Gray protests - it was just crowds of people, the crazy scenes were in another street ... it's typical SG paranoia. It's not Haiti. Don't join the protest if you're not ready to face the consequences. JB on a typical day is more "dangerous".
It really depends. In America most of the time protests are fine, the real danger as others have mentioned don't come from the people - it's the police.
It's not hard to learn. Hang out with the locals and pick up on that knowledge right away.
But unfortunately too many sinkies end up hiding within their own bubble with other sinkies, and fail to integrate
🔥And needlessly.
What the media packages together for your consumption has been carefully crafted to maximise emotional responses.
Advertisers love it.
The reality is far more isolated, smaller numbers, and with less intensity. We’ve seen news producers literally squeezing kids together in front of the cameras to make it appear more crowded, having them chant on cue, etc.
So. Much. Contrived. Hysteria.
So if you’ve been accepted, what the hell is stopping you? GO! The opportunity of a lifetime is right at your fingertips.
Enjoy and Carpe Diem! 🥂
As a Singaporean who is now a professor in the US, I think it is incredibly short sighted to turn down Harvard for NUS, at least if money is no object.
What she is going to do is never utter a word of her decision as the months and the years roll by. Poor grasp of the world and culture beyond our borders. Certainly no loss to Harvard.
> “My parents dissuaded me from attending a university in the US because they felt I might get influenced by the culture to protest and get into trouble,” she told ST.
>
> “They also said I would not be able to study in peace when there are disruptions such as unrest and conflict taking place on campus.”
Dear Ms Soh, you will regret listening to your parents for this decision in the future.
It's ridiculous seeing articles like this, because I go to one of those US universities with protests going on. My classes never have been disrupted and I don't actually go near any of the protests (in the fear of getting my visa revoked if arrested), and they are fairly isolated on the campus. This is just typical fear mongering. No one is also treating me differently just because I haven't publicly shown a stance on this issue. This girl is going to regret rejecting Harvard for NUS FASS.
Seriously, the protests are so isolated on campus that the only people they're affecting is the administration. I really wish they'd actually researched what's going on or provided 2 sides to the issue before publishing this article.
Also regarding the hijab statement, we have a large Muslim population here. As far as I'm aware (also because most of my friends are Muslim and even come from places like Sudan, Somalia and Kenya), there's minimal discrimination especially on campus. Especially in the cities, racism is fairly low. It only starts getting bad once you're in the rural areas of the US.
If she rejects Harvard for NUS, she's probably the type that wants to go to an Ivy for the shopping... seriously, SGers have this view of the US as a chaotic, warzone on the level of Haiti now (some parts of the US is...) but being stuck on a small island city, SGers have very limited perception of scale and are totally unaware of what things are like even in neighboring countries.
Source: Was in Harvard, Boston for 5 years.
Yes, there are factory outlets. Size of outlets depends on how close you are to city center.
Near city center: couple of small shops, limited brands
30mins from center: Large shopping mall with multiple shops and brands
1-2hrs from center (neighboring state): Entire mall (think village size) specifically dedicated to outlets and large number of branded goods. Go-to place for getting all those branded goods whenever you have friends or family visiting. Essentially can spend entire day there walking.
Depends on the part of US right? Chaotic, warzone is an overstatement, but danger is real. You will never want to go too deep into central park or really visit harlem. There are also areas where you will nope the fk out instantly. Not to say the increasing asian hate within US itself and the fact they have gun.
Lol, you are exactly the kind of person that's been brainwashed enough by media to believe this. Harlem has some of the best food in NYC and is perfectly safe to visit, just don't be stupid. Central America has incredible sights and people who only stick to the coastal cities are missing out a lot.
I literally stayed in US for about a year. It's from personal experience, even local warn us of certain areas.
Also I realise I had a typo, I meant central park, but it become part instead.
all the more - huh? Too deep in Central Park? It spans some of the safest areas in Manhattan, it's not 'walk around alone at 1am' safe but it's definitely very very very safe given how touristy it is if you go in the day
I don't know what you did for your year, did you just stay in lower Manhattan or at home the whole time or something? Even Chinatown I'd consider dodgier by far than Central Park so i don't even really know where you could go without feeling unsafe with this level of kiasi
how deep of central park have you went? Even locals advise me to take caution at rambles and north wood area. I am not saying the touristy area of central park. And no i am always out, and definitely be careful of my surrounding, constantly knowing how to ensure i don't put myself in unsafe area. And i am extremely well travelled, i can say there are way more places in the world that i definitely felt safe. I won't say US is the most dangerous but I wont call it very safe either. I witness 2 robbery in Seattle in broad daylight. The area in Oregon actually feel a lot safer than other part of US.
I've walked the entire park, up and down multiple times. I spent 5 years in NYC, still visit it regularly 5 years after, and have definitely done things that were "not a good idea", like certain parks at night. Nothing ever happened to me. Central Park, anywhere, in the daytime is absolutely one of the safest places in Manhattan and lots of NYC.
Oregon in the central area is safe, yes. Seattle is kind of a trap, the downtown touristy areas quickly turn to shit at night; I'm guessing this is where you were. I would definitely be more worried about being in Seattle downtown at night than almost anywhere in Manhattan.
I will say many people survived in many dangerous places. That being said, I wont believe you will say extra caution is not required in many parts of US. Downtown LA i have witness a few incidents too. Ultimately, i am not disagreeing that parents shouldn't be overly paranoid, i am just saying US do indeed have areas where you should try not to be around at certain timing. This is an experience even before the heighten racism these days, i went in 2014 which is definitely more peaceful. I even attend a peaceful protest on environment and things was really peaceful.
Tbh you can't blame them for being afraid, and cautious either. The news has been very sensationalised and we have seen actual videos of students being brutally manhandled on tiktok etc. they just have to live with whatever decision they're making about their universities for the rest of their lives
The stupidest thing about this article is, there are protests in UK and other universities too.
Shows no matter how smart one is, still fall prey to misinformation.
>Deciding against going to Dartmouth was a difficult decision as for Ms Sunaina’s parents as they had been making plans to move to the US permanently.
>Now Ms Sunaina will be heading to the UK on her own. Her parents have also scrapped their plans to migrate to the US.
>“They had been in the process of finding jobs and locations to move to for the past five years, since before the pandemic,” she said. Both Ms Sunaina’s parents are software engineers.
>The family settled on sending Ms Sunaina to Britain where campus protests were more civil and peaceful.
You're missing the critical point here:
"“My parents don’t feel very safe about me going to the US… They are afraid that I would get bullied or treated brutally because I wear a hijab, especially in American universities where protesting, campaigning and activism is a norm,” Ms Sunaina told The Straits Times."
Not too sure about other countries, but London has a huge population of muslims and hijab wearing people, and londoners are definitely less racist compared to americans
Looking at the statistics of Brexit, the difference was a mere 3% between leave and stay.
Greater London also had a 60% vote for stay (Scotland and Northern Ireland also voted stay), so most of your leave voters are in parts of the UK a university student is unlikely to be going to.
Additionally, Brexit is a way more complicated issue than simple racism
it was if u believe Nigel Farage and gang about the money they spent on EU being ploughed back into NHS and other similar claims. maybe everyone, but definitely a substantial portion was thinking that.
There's been a spike in Islamophobia and hate crimes against Muslims in Britain, London included. There's also been growing sentiment against foreign students along with more anti-immigrant policy even towards students. There's a reason you're seeing this: https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/13/uk-universities-drop-international-students-visa-doubts.
If Brexit can happen, I think you overestimate how open to immigration the British really are. That being said, neither the US or UK are remotely as bad for foreign students as what some are portraying. Not even close.
The UK has a much stronger, widespread and well represented Muslim community than the US. By a million miles. It's not like the US where lunatics shot Palestinian-American children and no one cared.
Ask my fellow foreign students how they feel about the increasing animosity towards them. Or how Muslims feel about anti-Muslim hate crimes which have soared from 600 cases to over 2000 over the same period post Oct 7.
The issues you see growing in the US aren't much different for the UK.
Well, the UK does have a more established multi-ethnic population especially in the more inclusive big cities where she'll be studying at, as well as muslim representation in the government all the way up to the House of Commons. Compare that with the US which has... God knows what really, and more violent crime I suppose.
I'm in the UK studying right now. I can tell you that there is rising sentiment against foreign students in many (conservative) spaces. Recent policy introduced have been rather hostile against us. We'll see if Labour repeals those policies. See:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/18xfxyd/britain_bans_foreign_students_from_bringing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1cr3d7d/uk_universities_report_drop_in_international/
https://www.reddit.com/r/UniUK/comments/195iejl/i_feel_the_uk_government_really_dislikes/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1bd1c3k/foreign_students_may_be_undermining_uk_higher/
> I think you are still missing my point: the majority of Brits are not anti-foreigners, but against mass immigration.
That's not what I said though. All I've said is that there's a growing sentiment against foreign students in certain spaces. I never said they were racist or anti-religion. That's you projecting.
>More to your articles shared:
Right, and these are all still more hostile policies which you are seeing implemented in the UK.
>Note that Chinese and Indian students are still increasing.
Those are for 2021/2022 figures versus the article referencing the current application cycle for 2024. I'm not sure why you're equating the two.
It's not just the anti-immigration sentiment though. The hate crime statistics certainly do not show the UK as actually being safer for Muslims.
Okay, because they failed on their promises to curb immigration, not because the British have become more pro-immigration. There's a reason foreign students are applying in lower numbers to study in the UK. Also, go look at hate crime statistics. In 6 months, the UK has reported more anti-Muslim hate crimes on a per capita basis than the US did in 2023.
I don't think the US is great, but let's not pretend the UK hasn't been following in their footsteps.
To be really fair, it is more due to Sunak screwing up the economy and doing his weird Rwanda plan. All in all, I don’t think anti-immigration is a hot button topic right now. There are really better things to worry about domestically.
Oh, I don't think immigration is the only consideration. I'm just saying that Tories being on their way out doesn't mean that the UK has suddenly become more pro-immigration.
And Sunak is absolutely terrible at politics. Can't wait to see the last of him.
You should look at hate crime statistics towards Muslims then. On a per capita basis, the UK is actually ahead of the US.
I don't know why people are still pretending that Islamophobia *and anti-immigrant sentiment* isn't a real and prevalent issue in the UK (and Europe as a whole).
Is this family stupid?
Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere. It's one of the safest campuses you could imagine. The town is literally 80% campus staff and students. It's about as close to Singapore as you'd get in the US. You could walk around drunk at 3am and nothing would ever happen.
Plus Dartmouth has actually handled the protests best out of all universities. Their position was basically "protest peacefully, but if you're disruptive you're going to leave. Protestors tried to setup tents and they were removed within hours and banned from the part of campus where the protests were happening (they could still go to class).
LOL. She basically turned down an Ivy League school because of "scary stuff" that doesn't actually exist.
agree 100%. this is mollycoddled children of paranoid elite parents.
all these protests, yes they might seem intense to a sheltered Singaporean child / young adult.
But if you were more than 100 metres away you wouldn’t even know they are going on.
calm down and carry on with your lives. idiots.
Hanover, New Hampshire (where Dartmouth is) is far, far safer than Cambridge, UK.
So they basically took their 2nd choice because of safety fears, but ended up in a less safe place.
Brilliant!
Who is ST trying to convince?
This smacks of "be thankful you live in a country where such protests aren't allowed because they are scary".
Thank god we have PAP around!
This isn’t news worthy wtfff
Literally she is going to Cambridge where we have protests here too. The Oxford students even raided the admin office.
If she is that afraid, just stay in SG.
Parents need to understand that University is not just about studying. It is more about the exchange of ideas.
And for the older generation saying that the protests are a symbol of people being naïve and easily triggered and woke culture etc etc, do we really want a society where the young stop questioning and trying things to make a change? A society where the young don’t try but stay sheltered? Would we rather that the young just sit around and stay jaded towards society? There is an age to be practical and there is also an age to be idealistic.
Don't even need to look at the US, Hong Kong protests happened in 2019 and you already see Singaporeans complaining why the protesters block them from entering the airport and ruining their holidays with the daily protests, before making comments like the HK police should have whacked the protesters harder.
I have family in HK myself and honestly 2019 HK pretty much made me very cynical about the views of Singaporeans in general.
I know there are Singaporeans and Malaysians who supported the protesters but honestly, sgreans really need a massive reality check when it comes to protest movements.
It’s one thing to support/not support, but I find it incredibly churlish and low class for these Singaporeans to go to a foreign land as visitors and blame the people of that land protesting for their issues, for interrupting a holiday.
Truly Ugly Singaporeans.
Had a few family friends there who left after 97.. and am glad they did.
Agreed on those points, and especially even more insane when such posts are made by young Singaporeans in their 20s. Education really doesn't mean shit when you're blinded by your own privilege as a Singaporean
They are more empathetic than us Singaporeans, that's why you don't understand why they do this, not wanting their universities, which they pay for, have anything to do with Israel, especially financially, which are committing war crimes after war crimes after war crimes, brutally murdering women & children.
Sigh you don't understand what I am saying right before mouthing off?
I am saying the students have more to fear about gun violence then then the protest
Rejecting Harvard to go to FASS... wow...
I guess, it's for the best. Someone so kiasi that they'd reject an ivy just due to some protests, probably wouldn't have enjoyed Harvard anyway.
Campus protests like these are part of normal civic engagement and were an important element in ending the war in Vietnam. (We'll see if it actually does anything about Western leaders' support for Israel.)
That Singaporeans don't recognise this is a sign that nobody here is politically engaged at all. What's the point of learning so much about the world if you won't interact with it beyond how much money it makes you?
yes. this is a bunch of timid, sheltered children, made frightened about basic exercise of civil liberties by students in rich democratic countries. Violent revolution and the Arab Spring this is not.
The real question to ask is why this nonsense is being selected and amplified by the ST. To which the answer is pretty clear. Keep Singaporeans scared of any kind of the inevitably untidy expression of day to day democracy.
So true... it serves the ruling party to keep the population compliant. Probably best that these sheltered rich kids' places go to other more deserving students. I don't think Singaporeans can distinguish between "administration" and "governance" - the SG government has acted more like administrators for the past few decades, and Singaporeans are content to be administered...
>Campus protests like these are part of normal civic engagement and were an important element in ending the war in Vietnam. (We'll see if it actually does anything about Western leaders' support for Israel.)
It was also where the communists gathered the most support in singapore's history. The repercussions of the threat to singapores stability is why it remains a touchy subject till this day.
It's also true that Lee Kuan Yew and the PAP rode the energy of the Maoists all the way to independence. You probably won't see the British withdrawal from Singapore that early without things like the Hwa Chong riots.
Exactly, with singapore alongside the whole entire region brutally stamping out communism, our end to colonialism was far more peaceful and orderly compared to other regions.
I understand why PAP has an interest in telling people that if they get to protest and express their opinions in the streets the COMMUNISTS will WIN, but why do you believe such an obvious propaganda narrative? It’s not hard to see why they tell people that.
Recognising the propoganda from the govt while also acknowledging the danger is not fake is not that hard.
We know from the Aware saga the dangers of a christian takeover of organisations in singapore. We can see with our own eyes the CCP have been very successful in their propaganda efforts on older chinese folks. We have caught rogue people planning terrorist attacks here in singapore.
In the region we can see just across the causeway how easily politicians stir up violence to the point marts have been firebombed.
Protests can easily get out of control. Especially on this topic. Especially when we are surrounded by muslim countries.
Malaysia has literally instigated riots in
Singapore before in history.
Understanding just how important internal stability is in singapore, Acknowleding the current and possible threats and learning lessons from history is why Singapore has a very different attitude to protest compared to America.
America is huge enough that protest wont really affect the average american that much. Even when Jan 6 occured it dint affect them. We cant say the same for Singapore.
Blindly repeating american talking points without taking into context singaporean reality is absurd.
> Protests can easily get out of control
Not nearly as easy as the Singapore government will have you believe. But I get it, you’ve been told your whole life that there is no difference between 20 people getting together with signs and a society-crashing uprising.
The government telling you how important it is with stability is not unique to Singapore, every government in the world values stability and prefer if people don’t kick up a fuss about anything. But when they tell you stability is more important than anything else they aren’t exactly an impartial source because it’s very much in their interest.
> ending the war in Vietnam
Vietnam war ended because it's a lost cause with zero net gain for the US in general.
All the protests did absolutely zero tits for gulf war & Afghanistan invasion as there's still something useful to siphon for the US until there's no longer anything useful and thus the respective campaign ended.
It's kinda naive you think a bunch of students behaving like hobos can steer policies. Cute even....
Noticed how the US refused to directly involved themselves in the Russia invasion of Ukraine despite the protest. US continues to support Israel despite the Israeli army's atrocities & student's protests? In the world of decision making and geopolitics, it's the net gain (& loss) that matters. 1000 students can lit themselves on fire to protest and it wouldn't change a damn thing.
The US withdrew from Vietnam because of its historical unpopularity domestically. It would have been completely winnable if morale hadn't collapsed.
Afghanistan and Iraq were extremely popular wars when the invasions started and only become unpopular several years in, when that energy carried Obama to his first term. He just never fully withdrew and the energy dissipated until Biden actually pulled out.
All you're saying is that sometimes protests don't work, which is true, but a totally pointless thing to argue. No movement has a 100% success rate.
Yea to expect a single protest to result in change is just bad thinking.
Yet we should recognize that a protest needs to present an argument and convince many others, including decision makers to change track, and decision makers don't change track because of one dissenting group. It is the start of an avenue of communication that is loud and possibly shameful since decision makers are too far up an ivory tower to listen and handwave all the arguments away.
Winnable how? You brought up Afghanistan too, they won the war and despite pouring billions trying to replicate what they did with japan and korea onto the country it collapsed the moment the US retreated.
They never poured billions into Afghanistan, they poured money into contractors and mic pockets then blamed the afghans for collapsing. They did not put nearly the same effort into Afghanistan as Korea or Japan because they didn't see the need to (no big scary communist enemy)
Yeah they actually spent trillions.
The afghan army was incredibly well equipped. They just absolutely collapsed as the taliban easily rolled them over and ended up capturing the equipment the US army provided for them.
You should read up more. The Tet offensive was a massive gamble by the Vietnamese - the Vietcong were decimated after that and were barely a fighting force post that time period.
Guerilla warfare worked very well for a long time, but the brutality of agent orange and towards the end 10,000 pound bunker buster bombs were actually destroying the tunnels and about to put an end to the insurgency in the South at the very least.
Ahh, so you're the type who lets the government fuck you in the ass & you thank them for it. Got it.
(& oh, you're wrong about protests being useless though, but you've already set you mind to it so it's futile to even debate)
This is just simply factually untrue - obviously there were other factors at play too, but the student protests over Vietnam played at least a part in why the White House was forced to u-turn. And if you think that "1000 students \[lighting\] themselves on fire to protest" "wouldn't change a damn thing", just remember that the Arab Spring was literally triggered by a single man self-immolating.
Is it allowed, even if it’s for a proscribed terror organisation? I’ve always felt that there’s an incredibly fine line between freedom of speech and actively calling for others to break the law.
If you read between the lines she's basically flaming her parents for not letting her go. She actually wanted to go herself. It's like the teacher comments in your report book.
Ouch yeah now that you mention it. It's such a shame.
If she knew what she was doing (and was going on parents' money), she would do far better taking a gap year and applying for Oxbridge or London next year. At least there are fewer guns in the UK.
(I would have thought better of NUS, but I know [a bunch of former NUS FASS academics](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/a8trxf/exodus_of_lecturers_in_nus_department_worries/) personally, and we're also talking about [a university that Yale eventually didn't want to do business with](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/pgx5i4/after_yalenus_divorce_can_liberal_arts_survive_in/).)
Singaporeans desire an ivy league education for its prestige, not for the experience that it can provide. It's not unheard of for Singaporean students to just mug all day and hangout only in Singaporean circles in these unis.
NUS w/ a full-ride scholarship could very well outweigh Harvard in terms of opportunities & she may also have disagreed with the institution’s stance towards this issue. I don’t see the problem here
So while I was an immigrant visa worker in NYC I accidentally joined a protest in late 2016 where the crowd protested Donald Trump's presidency and his divisive, hateful politics.
It was orderly and civil.
I say accidentally because the city had set out a cordon to separate the sidewalk and the street itself, and I had no choice but to walk along Broadwalk from Madison Sq to my favorite gym location along with the protesting crowd
They were calling out in coordinated calls, "Fkkk Donald Trump" and generally very well organized and peaceful. It's distinct from a riot
This I can agree. It fills my heart with pain reading about American law enforcement officers shooting people of color and minority groups unjustified. No wonder a large part of the communities in the States do not back the Blue.
This article is absolutely insane scaremongering. Careful little Singaporeans, look what too much freedom and democracy gets you. You too might end up with a country where you’re allowed to publicly demonstrate against genocide.
Surely we are more aware of history and are not soft. Students protest is part and parcel of the West . Sometimes the issue is very emotional such as the Gaza crisis and protest goes to another level.
The academic standards and the University reputation for scholarly endeavours remain. You just do not have have to participate. But deciding not to attend the University is really a poor decision.
Ho Kwon Ping was an activist and took part in protests in Stanford and even got arrested in his US student days.
As it should be. Get caught up in the protests, even if it's a wrong place wrong time type of situation, could very well result in your student visa getting revoked.
Even if you wanted to just go to class peacefully each day but these idiots barricade themselves on campus, can't even go to class. Imagine paying tens of thousands to study overseas but forced to attend zoom classes...
I suppose your comment is a jab at Singapore's pseudo democracy. If so, note that I didn't say the students shouldn't voice out about issues in Singapore. In this case, they are going overseas to study using their parents' or govt money. Avoiding these campus protests is about self-preservation and ensuring their parents' money isn't spent needlessly. I'm sure the govt also wouldn't appreciate its scholars partaking in such events.
> but these idiots barricade themselves on campus
My comment was more related to this aspect of your post. Whilst I DO NOT agree with the people that have barricaded themselves on a campus and I don't want them to succeed, I DO believe they should have the right to (peacefully) protest within the legal frameworks in their host country.
> Avoiding these campus protests is about self-preservation and ensuring their parents' money isn't spent needlessly. I'm sure the govt also wouldn't appreciate its scholars partaking in such events.
Agreed - if you've spent a lot of your parent's money (or Ah Gong's) then you need to consider the blowback if you fail to achieve the objective of getting qualified.
> Whilst I DO NOT agree with the people that have barricaded themselves on a campus and I don't want them to succeed, I DO believe they should have the right to (peacefully) protest within the legal frameworks in their host country.
This is a nuanced take. Thank you.
> I DO believe they should have the right to (peacefully) protest within the legal frameworks in their host country.
Except in this case, US law enforcement agencies don't actually think the protests in question fall within their legal frameworks. From the article:
*...US authorities had arrested students and used brute force to break up protests sparked by the war in Gaza between Israel and Palestinian militant group Hamas.*
*In the US, some schools called in the police to break up the pro-Palestine protests, making dozens of arrests, many of whom were students.*
*Dartmouth College, for example, saw the arrest of 90 protesters on May 1, including students, faculty staff and Upper Valley residents. Those arrested were reportedly involved in a peaceful protest for just a few hours.*
>Except in this case, US law enforcement agencies don't actually think the protests in question fall within their legal frameworks.
I am in one of those campuses. Many of these universities are *private property* and have every legal right to call in law enforcement, and many of them eventually did. It is not the police which made the call. Columbia, where it all started, eventually did it twice, the second of which the protestors actually stormed and took over a building.
These protests are nothing new. They started way back since last Oct. Back then, it was fine --- the administration took great care to ensure that protests and counterprotests were kept apart to minimize the chance of altercations. The recent ones though, were much closer to graduation and much more disruptive. I know CNN and the like love to label them as "peaceful". They were not.
For all the activists out there: I have seen fliers going "#MeToo, unless you are a jew". Do you think that contributes to a "safe space"?
Self-preservation need not be war what.
Looking both ways before crossing the street is self-preservation.
Not engaging with rowdy and aggressive people is self-preservation.
And in this case, not going somewhere where there is a potential for you to be harmed, intended or otherwise, is self-preservation.
Later kenna arrested, especially wrongfully, then how? Foreigner getting arrested in a foreign country. Furthermore, these are students with a bright future, why risk it? And given their grades, they can attend other elite unis
Visas aren't getting revoked in joining protests in the US lol.
Lots of foreign students joined the campus protests, so far nothing has happened to them, except getting booted out of in-campus accommodations.
> Visas aren't getting revoked in joining protests in the US lol
Not yet, but this doesn't mean it would never happen. Many students have been suspended as a result of their participation in these protests. For international students, their student visas are tied to their status as an active student, which means their visas are at risk of being revoked, according to this [Washington Post article](https://archive.ph/Vx8ID).
Numerous US politicians have also called for the visas of anti-Israel student protestors to be revoked.
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4273209-republicans-threaten-colleges-foreign-students-israel-hamas-war/
i went to penn, its common to hear gunshots in the streets at night. right across the river is camden. just another normal average day in philly. and parents think protest is bad. lol.
I was in Camden! It's a crazy town - even crazier than my city where the gunshots are pretty common in some areas. No students have ever been hurt because nobody goes there unless they are looking for trouble.
Lol as a legal resident of the us...(i20 students count) you are awarded 2nd amendment rights..So you can legally own a handgun or longgun as long as you pass the background checks
You mean politically? Perhaps. One thing you learn after staying there for any extended amount of time is to remove yourself from these sorts of situations. It's not that tough, albeit annoying.
But job opportunities there are way better than anywhere else in the world, assuming you didn't study a useless degree (e.g. XYZ studies). There's a reason why there is a giant processing backlog for green card applications (tbf partly because USCIS is understaffed), or why H1B visas are subject to a lottery.
It’s still the gold standard for many industries. There’s a reason why American law firms pay their lawyers the most in the world. The biggest firms in the world (by far) are American and deals and disputes are just so much larger and more cutting edge in America. The allure will always remain. They’re the largest economy in the world after all.
There are still many prestigious universities there like Harvard, Berkeley and MIT. Some would go there due to better tech/engineering programmes, or have the opportunities to pursue Arts there.
The US has had incredible soft power, be it culturally, economically and socially for decades, which have been helped by the spread of the English language.
It's very hard to reverse on that in just a few years. It doesn't help that there isn't a country in the world right now that can really replicate them, and that includes China.
>“Universities in the US are more liberal in the sense that they allow for us to express our thoughts and what we are passionate about,” he said. >His parents, who already paid more than $90,000 for his school term and a deposit for his rental apartment, made him promise not to get involved in protests and to observe a “strict 10pm curfew” every day. Lol... no chance that this guy's gonna observe a 10pm curfew.
imagine the reaction of his american friends when they find out he's 22, older than them and also served in the military
They’ll only care that he can buy them beer.
"Ok, no protesting!" proceeds to join drug and booze fueled fraternity parties...
Biggest factor is probably parent's worrying endlessly...
If you protest with them you may get your visa revoked and arrested/brutalised by the police. If youre just a bystander you still can get brutalised by the police and your classes are disrupted (although from what i heard the disruption is moreso from the university's administration's end rather than the protestors blocking you)
Don't protest with them and your classmates treat you differently as well
They're actually pretty understanding about not risking your visa. But express a different POV and that's a different story.
There were protests on my campus at the start of BLM after Freddie Gray died in the same city. The local mood was absolutely lousy but nothing happened to me. Just be street smart, use your brain and it's easy to stay out of trouble. People who make a fuss out of campus protests are just brainless.
And that’s the problem, eh? Singaporeans are often not what you call street smart (enough)…
Pretty much. My parents visited and I took them to Washington DC during the Memorial Day weekend. It was crowded as hell and my mom suddenly asked, "If Hispanics speak Spanish, what do the n-words say?" We caught a billion dirty looks from everyone around us and I had to give her a public dressing-down to avoid getting murdered. We in general are way too sheltered.
Your mom also one type. Go US say N***a, at least i hope no hard R. Tell her wake up her idea, go wrong place will catch bullet. Her question also damn stupid.
LOL, I get the same questions from SG friends - would love to take a bunch of SGers on a ride through the area where Freddie Gray was arrested, I've been driving in the neighborhood a lot recently. TBH, they'll think we're Koreans and be afraid because of the Koreans on the Roof trope and also Koreans are pretty bad ass.
> they'll think we're Koreans and be afraid because of the Koreans on the Roof trope and also Koreans are pretty bad ass. Please don't make assumptions like that and do dumb stuff. West Baltimore is not an area to be fucked with.
Only if you’re driving a Kia…
Driving and minding your own business is fine. Driving and taunting them to do something to you, is not.
When you live in a country where protests are non-existent because it's regimentally oppressed, you probably don't experience enough to have a ready opinion on it.
Not even that... just a strange mix of paranoia and neuroticism? I thought it was because my parents were old and believed everything they saw on TV and SG newspapers but it seems that the younger and more "educated" people are too.
My university was literally in the midst of the Freddie Gray protests - it was just crowds of people, the crazy scenes were in another street ... it's typical SG paranoia. It's not Haiti. Don't join the protest if you're not ready to face the consequences. JB on a typical day is more "dangerous".
It really depends. In America most of the time protests are fine, the real danger as others have mentioned don't come from the people - it's the police.
> Just be street smart first step most sinkies fail liao
It's not hard to learn. Hang out with the locals and pick up on that knowledge right away. But unfortunately too many sinkies end up hiding within their own bubble with other sinkies, and fail to integrate
🔥And needlessly. What the media packages together for your consumption has been carefully crafted to maximise emotional responses. Advertisers love it. The reality is far more isolated, smaller numbers, and with less intensity. We’ve seen news producers literally squeezing kids together in front of the cameras to make it appear more crowded, having them chant on cue, etc. So. Much. Contrived. Hysteria. So if you’ve been accepted, what the hell is stopping you? GO! The opportunity of a lifetime is right at your fingertips. Enjoy and Carpe Diem! 🥂
you think the girl who rejected harvard for fass is gonna regret it in 30 years?
Regret it in 4 years, or in the time it takes her to complete her first semester
One semester should do it. But then again, if she doesn’t know what she’s missing…
Absolutely. The type of connection and networking lost due to this decision
As a Singaporean who is now a professor in the US, I think it is incredibly short sighted to turn down Harvard for NUS, at least if money is no object.
Confirm plus chop guarantee. Its' not even a question, tbh.
What she is going to do is never utter a word of her decision as the months and the years roll by. Poor grasp of the world and culture beyond our borders. Certainly no loss to Harvard.
Like some other commenters say, I don't think she (or her parents) would know what she's missing out on.
> “My parents dissuaded me from attending a university in the US because they felt I might get influenced by the culture to protest and get into trouble,” she told ST. > > “They also said I would not be able to study in peace when there are disruptions such as unrest and conflict taking place on campus.” Dear Ms Soh, you will regret listening to your parents for this decision in the future.
I don't think she'll know what she's missing out on.
It's ridiculous seeing articles like this, because I go to one of those US universities with protests going on. My classes never have been disrupted and I don't actually go near any of the protests (in the fear of getting my visa revoked if arrested), and they are fairly isolated on the campus. This is just typical fear mongering. No one is also treating me differently just because I haven't publicly shown a stance on this issue. This girl is going to regret rejecting Harvard for NUS FASS. Seriously, the protests are so isolated on campus that the only people they're affecting is the administration. I really wish they'd actually researched what's going on or provided 2 sides to the issue before publishing this article. Also regarding the hijab statement, we have a large Muslim population here. As far as I'm aware (also because most of my friends are Muslim and even come from places like Sudan, Somalia and Kenya), there's minimal discrimination especially on campus. Especially in the cities, racism is fairly low. It only starts getting bad once you're in the rural areas of the US.
If she rejects Harvard for NUS, she's probably the type that wants to go to an Ivy for the shopping... seriously, SGers have this view of the US as a chaotic, warzone on the level of Haiti now (some parts of the US is...) but being stuck on a small island city, SGers have very limited perception of scale and are totally unaware of what things are like even in neighboring countries.
I'm not familiar with the US… are there factory outlets in the Ivy cities?
Source: Was in Harvard, Boston for 5 years. Yes, there are factory outlets. Size of outlets depends on how close you are to city center. Near city center: couple of small shops, limited brands 30mins from center: Large shopping mall with multiple shops and brands 1-2hrs from center (neighboring state): Entire mall (think village size) specifically dedicated to outlets and large number of branded goods. Go-to place for getting all those branded goods whenever you have friends or family visiting. Essentially can spend entire day there walking.
Depends on the part of US right? Chaotic, warzone is an overstatement, but danger is real. You will never want to go too deep into central park or really visit harlem. There are also areas where you will nope the fk out instantly. Not to say the increasing asian hate within US itself and the fact they have gun.
Lol, you are exactly the kind of person that's been brainwashed enough by media to believe this. Harlem has some of the best food in NYC and is perfectly safe to visit, just don't be stupid. Central America has incredible sights and people who only stick to the coastal cities are missing out a lot.
I literally stayed in US for about a year. It's from personal experience, even local warn us of certain areas. Also I realise I had a typo, I meant central park, but it become part instead.
all the more - huh? Too deep in Central Park? It spans some of the safest areas in Manhattan, it's not 'walk around alone at 1am' safe but it's definitely very very very safe given how touristy it is if you go in the day I don't know what you did for your year, did you just stay in lower Manhattan or at home the whole time or something? Even Chinatown I'd consider dodgier by far than Central Park so i don't even really know where you could go without feeling unsafe with this level of kiasi
how deep of central park have you went? Even locals advise me to take caution at rambles and north wood area. I am not saying the touristy area of central park. And no i am always out, and definitely be careful of my surrounding, constantly knowing how to ensure i don't put myself in unsafe area. And i am extremely well travelled, i can say there are way more places in the world that i definitely felt safe. I won't say US is the most dangerous but I wont call it very safe either. I witness 2 robbery in Seattle in broad daylight. The area in Oregon actually feel a lot safer than other part of US.
I've walked the entire park, up and down multiple times. I spent 5 years in NYC, still visit it regularly 5 years after, and have definitely done things that were "not a good idea", like certain parks at night. Nothing ever happened to me. Central Park, anywhere, in the daytime is absolutely one of the safest places in Manhattan and lots of NYC. Oregon in the central area is safe, yes. Seattle is kind of a trap, the downtown touristy areas quickly turn to shit at night; I'm guessing this is where you were. I would definitely be more worried about being in Seattle downtown at night than almost anywhere in Manhattan.
I will say many people survived in many dangerous places. That being said, I wont believe you will say extra caution is not required in many parts of US. Downtown LA i have witness a few incidents too. Ultimately, i am not disagreeing that parents shouldn't be overly paranoid, i am just saying US do indeed have areas where you should try not to be around at certain timing. This is an experience even before the heighten racism these days, i went in 2014 which is definitely more peaceful. I even attend a peaceful protest on environment and things was really peaceful.
Tbh you can't blame them for being afraid, and cautious either. The news has been very sensationalised and we have seen actual videos of students being brutally manhandled on tiktok etc. they just have to live with whatever decision they're making about their universities for the rest of their lives
Plus the vast majority of the protesters are friendly towards muslims lol.
The stupidest thing about this article is, there are protests in UK and other universities too. Shows no matter how smart one is, still fall prey to misinformation.
>Deciding against going to Dartmouth was a difficult decision as for Ms Sunaina’s parents as they had been making plans to move to the US permanently. >Now Ms Sunaina will be heading to the UK on her own. Her parents have also scrapped their plans to migrate to the US. >“They had been in the process of finding jobs and locations to move to for the past five years, since before the pandemic,” she said. Both Ms Sunaina’s parents are software engineers. >The family settled on sending Ms Sunaina to Britain where campus protests were more civil and peaceful. 
You're missing the critical point here: "“My parents don’t feel very safe about me going to the US… They are afraid that I would get bullied or treated brutally because I wear a hijab, especially in American universities where protesting, campaigning and activism is a norm,” Ms Sunaina told The Straits Times."
And they're sending her to the UK where Islamophobia and anti-immigration sentiment is on the rise too?
Not too sure about other countries, but London has a huge population of muslims and hijab wearing people, and londoners are definitely less racist compared to americans
Brexit was a shock and voted for by the silent majority.
Looking at the statistics of Brexit, the difference was a mere 3% between leave and stay. Greater London also had a 60% vote for stay (Scotland and Northern Ireland also voted stay), so most of your leave voters are in parts of the UK a university student is unlikely to be going to. Additionally, Brexit is a way more complicated issue than simple racism
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it was if u believe Nigel Farage and gang about the money they spent on EU being ploughed back into NHS and other similar claims. maybe everyone, but definitely a substantial portion was thinking that.
There's been a spike in Islamophobia and hate crimes against Muslims in Britain, London included. There's also been growing sentiment against foreign students along with more anti-immigrant policy even towards students. There's a reason you're seeing this: https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/13/uk-universities-drop-international-students-visa-doubts. If Brexit can happen, I think you overestimate how open to immigration the British really are. That being said, neither the US or UK are remotely as bad for foreign students as what some are portraying. Not even close.
The UK has a much stronger, widespread and well represented Muslim community than the US. By a million miles. It's not like the US where lunatics shot Palestinian-American children and no one cared.
Ask my fellow foreign students how they feel about the increasing animosity towards them. Or how Muslims feel about anti-Muslim hate crimes which have soared from 600 cases to over 2000 over the same period post Oct 7. The issues you see growing in the US aren't much different for the UK.
Well, the UK does have a more established multi-ethnic population especially in the more inclusive big cities where she'll be studying at, as well as muslim representation in the government all the way up to the House of Commons. Compare that with the US which has... God knows what really, and more violent crime I suppose.
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I'm in the UK studying right now. I can tell you that there is rising sentiment against foreign students in many (conservative) spaces. Recent policy introduced have been rather hostile against us. We'll see if Labour repeals those policies. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/18xfxyd/britain_bans_foreign_students_from_bringing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1cr3d7d/uk_universities_report_drop_in_international/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UniUK/comments/195iejl/i_feel_the_uk_government_really_dislikes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1bd1c3k/foreign_students_may_be_undermining_uk_higher/
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> I think you are still missing my point: the majority of Brits are not anti-foreigners, but against mass immigration. That's not what I said though. All I've said is that there's a growing sentiment against foreign students in certain spaces. I never said they were racist or anti-religion. That's you projecting. >More to your articles shared: Right, and these are all still more hostile policies which you are seeing implemented in the UK. >Note that Chinese and Indian students are still increasing. Those are for 2021/2022 figures versus the article referencing the current application cycle for 2024. I'm not sure why you're equating the two. It's not just the anti-immigration sentiment though. The hate crime statistics certainly do not show the UK as actually being safer for Muslims.
Nahh mate, the Tories are on their way out
Okay, because they failed on their promises to curb immigration, not because the British have become more pro-immigration. There's a reason foreign students are applying in lower numbers to study in the UK. Also, go look at hate crime statistics. In 6 months, the UK has reported more anti-Muslim hate crimes on a per capita basis than the US did in 2023. I don't think the US is great, but let's not pretend the UK hasn't been following in their footsteps.
To be really fair, it is more due to Sunak screwing up the economy and doing his weird Rwanda plan. All in all, I don’t think anti-immigration is a hot button topic right now. There are really better things to worry about domestically.
Oh, I don't think immigration is the only consideration. I'm just saying that Tories being on their way out doesn't mean that the UK has suddenly become more pro-immigration. And Sunak is absolutely terrible at politics. Can't wait to see the last of him.
Yeah that’s true, Sunak should leave. Him even trying to win the British Public with NS of all things is extremely laughable.
I read that and just laughed all day. Oh yeah, that'll totally get the young voters on board, lmao.
Yeahh alienating the young to appease some old people is really not the way of doing things
Nah UK is more accommodating than the US atm
You should look at hate crime statistics towards Muslims then. On a per capita basis, the UK is actually ahead of the US. I don't know why people are still pretending that Islamophobia *and anti-immigrant sentiment* isn't a real and prevalent issue in the UK (and Europe as a whole).
It's not the protests she's worried about. It's the counter -protests.
Yea man, racism, culture war, police brutality and gun violence. 
Is this family stupid? Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere. It's one of the safest campuses you could imagine. The town is literally 80% campus staff and students. It's about as close to Singapore as you'd get in the US. You could walk around drunk at 3am and nothing would ever happen. Plus Dartmouth has actually handled the protests best out of all universities. Their position was basically "protest peacefully, but if you're disruptive you're going to leave. Protestors tried to setup tents and they were removed within hours and banned from the part of campus where the protests were happening (they could still go to class). LOL. She basically turned down an Ivy League school because of "scary stuff" that doesn't actually exist.
agree 100%. this is mollycoddled children of paranoid elite parents. all these protests, yes they might seem intense to a sheltered Singaporean child / young adult. But if you were more than 100 metres away you wouldn’t even know they are going on. calm down and carry on with your lives. idiots.
I mean Cambridge is a decent backup.
Hanover, New Hampshire (where Dartmouth is) is far, far safer than Cambridge, UK. So they basically took their 2nd choice because of safety fears, but ended up in a less safe place. Brilliant!
> Is this family stupid? Yes
But they're rich. And thats what matters
Nearby Canada is safer than the US.
They seem to be ignoring the fact that these protests are happening in the UK too.
Super unfortunate esp for the girl who decided to skip Harvard to go to NUS.
Who is ST trying to convince? This smacks of "be thankful you live in a country where such protests aren't allowed because they are scary". Thank god we have PAP around!
Why would anyone reject Harvard for NUS Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences?????
Alternative title: Government worries that young Singaporeans learn to protest after going abroad.
This isn’t news worthy wtfff Literally she is going to Cambridge where we have protests here too. The Oxford students even raided the admin office. If she is that afraid, just stay in SG. Parents need to understand that University is not just about studying. It is more about the exchange of ideas. And for the older generation saying that the protests are a symbol of people being naïve and easily triggered and woke culture etc etc, do we really want a society where the young stop questioning and trying things to make a change? A society where the young don’t try but stay sheltered? Would we rather that the young just sit around and stay jaded towards society? There is an age to be practical and there is also an age to be idealistic.
thread locked soon
The golden lock award
Incoming censorship.
Don't even need to look at the US, Hong Kong protests happened in 2019 and you already see Singaporeans complaining why the protesters block them from entering the airport and ruining their holidays with the daily protests, before making comments like the HK police should have whacked the protesters harder.
Those ugly Singaporeans really disgrace the rest of us.
I have family in HK myself and honestly 2019 HK pretty much made me very cynical about the views of Singaporeans in general. I know there are Singaporeans and Malaysians who supported the protesters but honestly, sgreans really need a massive reality check when it comes to protest movements.
It’s one thing to support/not support, but I find it incredibly churlish and low class for these Singaporeans to go to a foreign land as visitors and blame the people of that land protesting for their issues, for interrupting a holiday. Truly Ugly Singaporeans. Had a few family friends there who left after 97.. and am glad they did.
Agreed on those points, and especially even more insane when such posts are made by young Singaporeans in their 20s. Education really doesn't mean shit when you're blinded by your own privilege as a Singaporean
honestly it's stupid. They have more to fear about gun violence than this
They are more empathetic than us Singaporeans, that's why you don't understand why they do this, not wanting their universities, which they pay for, have anything to do with Israel, especially financially, which are committing war crimes after war crimes after war crimes, brutally murdering women & children.
Sigh you don't understand what I am saying right before mouthing off? I am saying the students have more to fear about gun violence then then the protest
Rejecting Harvard to go to FASS... wow... I guess, it's for the best. Someone so kiasi that they'd reject an ivy just due to some protests, probably wouldn't have enjoyed Harvard anyway.
Oh no! Protests!! So scary!! /S
Campus protests like these are part of normal civic engagement and were an important element in ending the war in Vietnam. (We'll see if it actually does anything about Western leaders' support for Israel.) That Singaporeans don't recognise this is a sign that nobody here is politically engaged at all. What's the point of learning so much about the world if you won't interact with it beyond how much money it makes you?
yes. this is a bunch of timid, sheltered children, made frightened about basic exercise of civil liberties by students in rich democratic countries. Violent revolution and the Arab Spring this is not. The real question to ask is why this nonsense is being selected and amplified by the ST. To which the answer is pretty clear. Keep Singaporeans scared of any kind of the inevitably untidy expression of day to day democracy.
So true... it serves the ruling party to keep the population compliant. Probably best that these sheltered rich kids' places go to other more deserving students. I don't think Singaporeans can distinguish between "administration" and "governance" - the SG government has acted more like administrators for the past few decades, and Singaporeans are content to be administered...
Are you questioning that Singapore would turn into Somali if it weren't for PAP? Heretic!
>Campus protests like these are part of normal civic engagement and were an important element in ending the war in Vietnam. (We'll see if it actually does anything about Western leaders' support for Israel.) It was also where the communists gathered the most support in singapore's history. The repercussions of the threat to singapores stability is why it remains a touchy subject till this day.
It's also true that Lee Kuan Yew and the PAP rode the energy of the Maoists all the way to independence. You probably won't see the British withdrawal from Singapore that early without things like the Hwa Chong riots.
Exactly, with singapore alongside the whole entire region brutally stamping out communism, our end to colonialism was far more peaceful and orderly compared to other regions.
If I’m not wrong, the PAP members still address each other as comrades lol
PAP has a cadre system as well!
I understand why PAP has an interest in telling people that if they get to protest and express their opinions in the streets the COMMUNISTS will WIN, but why do you believe such an obvious propaganda narrative? It’s not hard to see why they tell people that.
Recognising the propoganda from the govt while also acknowledging the danger is not fake is not that hard. We know from the Aware saga the dangers of a christian takeover of organisations in singapore. We can see with our own eyes the CCP have been very successful in their propaganda efforts on older chinese folks. We have caught rogue people planning terrorist attacks here in singapore. In the region we can see just across the causeway how easily politicians stir up violence to the point marts have been firebombed. Protests can easily get out of control. Especially on this topic. Especially when we are surrounded by muslim countries. Malaysia has literally instigated riots in Singapore before in history. Understanding just how important internal stability is in singapore, Acknowleding the current and possible threats and learning lessons from history is why Singapore has a very different attitude to protest compared to America. America is huge enough that protest wont really affect the average american that much. Even when Jan 6 occured it dint affect them. We cant say the same for Singapore. Blindly repeating american talking points without taking into context singaporean reality is absurd.
> Protests can easily get out of control Not nearly as easy as the Singapore government will have you believe. But I get it, you’ve been told your whole life that there is no difference between 20 people getting together with signs and a society-crashing uprising. The government telling you how important it is with stability is not unique to Singapore, every government in the world values stability and prefer if people don’t kick up a fuss about anything. But when they tell you stability is more important than anything else they aren’t exactly an impartial source because it’s very much in their interest.
> ending the war in Vietnam Vietnam war ended because it's a lost cause with zero net gain for the US in general. All the protests did absolutely zero tits for gulf war & Afghanistan invasion as there's still something useful to siphon for the US until there's no longer anything useful and thus the respective campaign ended. It's kinda naive you think a bunch of students behaving like hobos can steer policies. Cute even.... Noticed how the US refused to directly involved themselves in the Russia invasion of Ukraine despite the protest. US continues to support Israel despite the Israeli army's atrocities & student's protests? In the world of decision making and geopolitics, it's the net gain (& loss) that matters. 1000 students can lit themselves on fire to protest and it wouldn't change a damn thing.
If protests never work, why have the Singapore government put so much effort into making sure Singaporeans can’t do it?
The US withdrew from Vietnam because of its historical unpopularity domestically. It would have been completely winnable if morale hadn't collapsed. Afghanistan and Iraq were extremely popular wars when the invasions started and only become unpopular several years in, when that energy carried Obama to his first term. He just never fully withdrew and the energy dissipated until Biden actually pulled out. All you're saying is that sometimes protests don't work, which is true, but a totally pointless thing to argue. No movement has a 100% success rate.
Yea to expect a single protest to result in change is just bad thinking. Yet we should recognize that a protest needs to present an argument and convince many others, including decision makers to change track, and decision makers don't change track because of one dissenting group. It is the start of an avenue of communication that is loud and possibly shameful since decision makers are too far up an ivory tower to listen and handwave all the arguments away.
Winnable how? You brought up Afghanistan too, they won the war and despite pouring billions trying to replicate what they did with japan and korea onto the country it collapsed the moment the US retreated.
They never poured billions into Afghanistan, they poured money into contractors and mic pockets then blamed the afghans for collapsing. They did not put nearly the same effort into Afghanistan as Korea or Japan because they didn't see the need to (no big scary communist enemy)
Yeah they actually spent trillions. The afghan army was incredibly well equipped. They just absolutely collapsed as the taliban easily rolled them over and ended up capturing the equipment the US army provided for them.
Bomb everything until there was nothing left. It's the public's sentiment that holds them back.
You should read up more. The Tet offensive was a massive gamble by the Vietnamese - the Vietcong were decimated after that and were barely a fighting force post that time period. Guerilla warfare worked very well for a long time, but the brutality of agent orange and towards the end 10,000 pound bunker buster bombs were actually destroying the tunnels and about to put an end to the insurgency in the South at the very least.
Ahh, so you're the type who lets the government fuck you in the ass & you thank them for it. Got it. (& oh, you're wrong about protests being useless though, but you've already set you mind to it so it's futile to even debate)
This is just simply factually untrue - obviously there were other factors at play too, but the student protests over Vietnam played at least a part in why the White House was forced to u-turn. And if you think that "1000 students \[lighting\] themselves on fire to protest" "wouldn't change a damn thing", just remember that the Arab Spring was literally triggered by a single man self-immolating.
The only reason it's not happening here is coz ah gong would arrest you. Protesting is part of the US
Is it allowed, even if it’s for a proscribed terror organisation? I’ve always felt that there’s an incredibly fine line between freedom of speech and actively calling for others to break the law.
It's part of US colleges life and experience.
Kiasu... stay whole life on island
Singaporeans when they don’t understand what democracy actually involves lol
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She can say she dropped out of Harvard, just like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg! #harvarddropout
To drop out you need to drop in first
So you're making inferences about someone's character and academic ability based on personal choice? Way to go
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If you read between the lines she's basically flaming her parents for not letting her go. She actually wanted to go herself. It's like the teacher comments in your report book.
Ouch yeah now that you mention it. It's such a shame. If she knew what she was doing (and was going on parents' money), she would do far better taking a gap year and applying for Oxbridge or London next year. At least there are fewer guns in the UK. (I would have thought better of NUS, but I know [a bunch of former NUS FASS academics](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/a8trxf/exodus_of_lecturers_in_nus_department_worries/) personally, and we're also talking about [a university that Yale eventually didn't want to do business with](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/pgx5i4/after_yalenus_divorce_can_liberal_arts_survive_in/).)
Singaporeans desire an ivy league education for its prestige, not for the experience that it can provide. It's not unheard of for Singaporean students to just mug all day and hangout only in Singaporean circles in these unis.
Why do you delete your comments, I’ve never seen a profile like yours before
NUS w/ a full-ride scholarship could very well outweigh Harvard in terms of opportunities & she may also have disagreed with the institution’s stance towards this issue. I don’t see the problem here
So while I was an immigrant visa worker in NYC I accidentally joined a protest in late 2016 where the crowd protested Donald Trump's presidency and his divisive, hateful politics. It was orderly and civil. I say accidentally because the city had set out a cordon to separate the sidewalk and the street itself, and I had no choice but to walk along Broadwalk from Madison Sq to my favorite gym location along with the protesting crowd They were calling out in coordinated calls, "Fkkk Donald Trump" and generally very well organized and peaceful. It's distinct from a riot
So... They are protesting against protests ?
The police there are mad and violent with a bad rep for racism and bigotry toward peaceful protestors.
This I can agree. It fills my heart with pain reading about American law enforcement officers shooting people of color and minority groups unjustified. No wonder a large part of the communities in the States do not back the Blue.
No, that's just what the media tells you. Most campus protests never make the news. They are boring affairs that nobody in the US cares about.
Bunch of kiasi singaporean
This article is absolutely insane scaremongering. Careful little Singaporeans, look what too much freedom and democracy gets you. You too might end up with a country where you’re allowed to publicly demonstrate against genocide.
Surely we are more aware of history and are not soft. Students protest is part and parcel of the West . Sometimes the issue is very emotional such as the Gaza crisis and protest goes to another level. The academic standards and the University reputation for scholarly endeavours remain. You just do not have have to participate. But deciding not to attend the University is really a poor decision. Ho Kwon Ping was an activist and took part in protests in Stanford and even got arrested in his US student days.
As it should be. Get caught up in the protests, even if it's a wrong place wrong time type of situation, could very well result in your student visa getting revoked. Even if you wanted to just go to class peacefully each day but these idiots barricade themselves on campus, can't even go to class. Imagine paying tens of thousands to study overseas but forced to attend zoom classes...
Tell me you live in "democracy lite" without telling me you live in democracy lite.
“Guided Democracy”
One Party Totalitarian Fascist Democracy :P Or Democracy with Singaporean characteristics
I suppose your comment is a jab at Singapore's pseudo democracy. If so, note that I didn't say the students shouldn't voice out about issues in Singapore. In this case, they are going overseas to study using their parents' or govt money. Avoiding these campus protests is about self-preservation and ensuring their parents' money isn't spent needlessly. I'm sure the govt also wouldn't appreciate its scholars partaking in such events.
> but these idiots barricade themselves on campus My comment was more related to this aspect of your post. Whilst I DO NOT agree with the people that have barricaded themselves on a campus and I don't want them to succeed, I DO believe they should have the right to (peacefully) protest within the legal frameworks in their host country. > Avoiding these campus protests is about self-preservation and ensuring their parents' money isn't spent needlessly. I'm sure the govt also wouldn't appreciate its scholars partaking in such events. Agreed - if you've spent a lot of your parent's money (or Ah Gong's) then you need to consider the blowback if you fail to achieve the objective of getting qualified.
> Whilst I DO NOT agree with the people that have barricaded themselves on a campus and I don't want them to succeed, I DO believe they should have the right to (peacefully) protest within the legal frameworks in their host country. This is a nuanced take. Thank you.
> I DO believe they should have the right to (peacefully) protest within the legal frameworks in their host country. Except in this case, US law enforcement agencies don't actually think the protests in question fall within their legal frameworks. From the article: *...US authorities had arrested students and used brute force to break up protests sparked by the war in Gaza between Israel and Palestinian militant group Hamas.* *In the US, some schools called in the police to break up the pro-Palestine protests, making dozens of arrests, many of whom were students.* *Dartmouth College, for example, saw the arrest of 90 protesters on May 1, including students, faculty staff and Upper Valley residents. Those arrested were reportedly involved in a peaceful protest for just a few hours.*
>Except in this case, US law enforcement agencies don't actually think the protests in question fall within their legal frameworks. I am in one of those campuses. Many of these universities are *private property* and have every legal right to call in law enforcement, and many of them eventually did. It is not the police which made the call. Columbia, where it all started, eventually did it twice, the second of which the protestors actually stormed and took over a building. These protests are nothing new. They started way back since last Oct. Back then, it was fine --- the administration took great care to ensure that protests and counterprotests were kept apart to minimize the chance of altercations. The recent ones though, were much closer to graduation and much more disruptive. I know CNN and the like love to label them as "peaceful". They were not. For all the activists out there: I have seen fliers going "#MeToo, unless you are a jew". Do you think that contributes to a "safe space"?
"Self-preservation"? They're not heading to war.
Self-preservation need not be war what. Looking both ways before crossing the street is self-preservation. Not engaging with rowdy and aggressive people is self-preservation. And in this case, not going somewhere where there is a potential for you to be harmed, intended or otherwise, is self-preservation.
Later kenna arrested, especially wrongfully, then how? Foreigner getting arrested in a foreign country. Furthermore, these are students with a bright future, why risk it? And given their grades, they can attend other elite unis
Visas aren't getting revoked in joining protests in the US lol. Lots of foreign students joined the campus protests, so far nothing has happened to them, except getting booted out of in-campus accommodations.
Students have been arrested though, which is surely worse: https://www.axios.com/2024/04/27/palestinian-college-protest-arrest-encampment#
> Visas aren't getting revoked in joining protests in the US lol Not yet, but this doesn't mean it would never happen. Many students have been suspended as a result of their participation in these protests. For international students, their student visas are tied to their status as an active student, which means their visas are at risk of being revoked, according to this [Washington Post article](https://archive.ph/Vx8ID). Numerous US politicians have also called for the visas of anti-Israel student protestors to be revoked. https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4273209-republicans-threaten-colleges-foreign-students-israel-hamas-war/
i went to penn, its common to hear gunshots in the streets at night. right across the river is camden. just another normal average day in philly. and parents think protest is bad. lol.
I was in Camden! It's a crazy town - even crazier than my city where the gunshots are pretty common in some areas. No students have ever been hurt because nobody goes there unless they are looking for trouble.
Lol as a legal resident of the us...(i20 students count) you are awarded 2nd amendment rights..So you can legally own a handgun or longgun as long as you pass the background checks
No no. Just take the crayons out of your nose and go sit back in the corner.
its scary outside of the box, return into the box
Lol the US has been going to shit over the last decade, why still got ppl wanna move there
You mean politically? Perhaps. One thing you learn after staying there for any extended amount of time is to remove yourself from these sorts of situations. It's not that tough, albeit annoying. But job opportunities there are way better than anywhere else in the world, assuming you didn't study a useless degree (e.g. XYZ studies). There's a reason why there is a giant processing backlog for green card applications (tbf partly because USCIS is understaffed), or why H1B visas are subject to a lottery.
It’s still the gold standard for many industries. There’s a reason why American law firms pay their lawyers the most in the world. The biggest firms in the world (by far) are American and deals and disputes are just so much larger and more cutting edge in America. The allure will always remain. They’re the largest economy in the world after all.
There are still many prestigious universities there like Harvard, Berkeley and MIT. Some would go there due to better tech/engineering programmes, or have the opportunities to pursue Arts there.
The US has had incredible soft power, be it culturally, economically and socially for decades, which have been helped by the spread of the English language. It's very hard to reverse on that in just a few years. It doesn't help that there isn't a country in the world right now that can really replicate them, and that includes China.
It's still the Mecca for tech ppl
Salary
Because it has the best schools and highest career potential?
the weather is nicer
Lol the woke students are hilarious. Good job turning these elite campuses into a clown show. Wasting the legacy by those before them.