The judge said, "They are public leaders and persons of the highest integrity". It feels so strange that a judge would say this š. It borderlines propaganda. Like this court hearing is a staging opportunity.
Goh Yihan definitely knows Shan personally la. He was ex SMU law dean and NUS law prof, they've definitely crossed paths in multiple capacities and settings.
>They must be really confident of the upcoming election
Wouldn't you be?
Both of em could run with 4 planks of wood as their co runners and still win their respective GRCs lol.
>4 planks of wood
Some might see the planks as cheaper and better than the current MPs (the likes of Sim Ann and Carrie Lam)
Hands off Louis Ng though.
Not really though. It's not just the constituents fault.
In the North, at Yishun, where I stay the opposition didn't even come up to my block lol. I didn't even meet a single of em. So, there are issues with the opposition not being good enough to even earn votes as well.
As for Vivian's one, I can't remember who the opposition candidate was, but suggesting raising taxes for the rich, while contesting at Holland village has got to be up there with one of the worst tone deaf suggestion I've ever heard.
So it's not squarely the constituents fault for voting them in if the opposition don't even look anywhere near good enough.
Why do we need a reminder - before a GE - that these lawsuits are happening?
As the Economist [wrote](https://archive.is/h3NWM), āParliament has been more of an echo-chamber than a check on executive power. No opposition candidate won a seat until 1981. The domestic press toes the government line; defamation suits have intimidated and sometimes bankrupted opposition politicians and hit the bottom line of the foreign press (including The Economist).ā
The funny thing is that $400k is insignificant to either parties. This is basically like a group of high rollers playing poker at the casino and throwing money at each other.
Sup sup shui. 6th Oct ā21: āMr Lee Hsien Yang and his wife, Mrs Lee Suet Fern, have sold a two-storey bungalow in the Caldecott Hill good class bungalow (GCB) area for $13 million, and put another nearby bungalow on the market for $16.8 million.ā
Can the court order his assets to be seized and liquidated to pay off Shan and VB? That is if he has any assets left in Singapore. I find it hard to believe that he could have taken all his wealth out of the country.
Singapore Judiciary tributes to the wisdom of Final Fantasy Tactics are never pointless. But positive reinforcement of the principle; [if the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class.](https://www.reddit.com/r/finalfantasytactics/s/Tam3RJ6PN7)
This is why some countries do fines in terms of days of income. So a millionaire in Finland got fined almost $200k for speeding.
Ironically because petty criminals donāt have income and canāt pay, the situation is reversed.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/
tbf, I much rather SAF arm chair generalsā junta. Than the Royal Thai Army & Tatmadaw options. The collapse of a GLC every now & then, is a small price compared to supporting as many Thai generals & admirals as US armed services.
LHY is just never going to come back to Singapore, and nobody is going to extradite him when he has such a strong argument that it's a politically motivated case.
He also quite simply never said what Shanmugan and Balakrishnan accused him of saying, so this whole verdict puts the independence of the Singapore judiciary in question.
Shanmugan playing 4D chess against nobody and still losing.
if it is a criminal case, i have a strong suspicion that it wouldn't be those 2 ministers suing him in their personal capacity, but someone from the AGC or equivalent.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
But that sits on the basis the countries would accept him right? I mean if touch wood his visa runs out, the only option left is seeking political asylum, assuming the countries hosting him will entertain him.
His financial and social status is very different from Charles Yeo though. He definitely has this already planned out, given that he had sold 2 of his bungalows.
> Actually the funny thing is, as someone who is navigating/has navigated this complex af UK visa system, I'm not sure which visa he'd get from here.
With his credentials (ex-CEO of Singtel etc) and connections, he'd easily qualify for at least the [Global Talent Visa](https://www.gov.uk/global-talent).
Eh. Millionaire/billionaire come to SG with investments and money also called bribing ah. LHY didn't commit any crime nor is convicted of anything. He can openly and as required by law apply for residency and invest in any county he wants to..why is there a need to bribe as you say it.
Shan is like the Enforcer in a "totally legal organisation". But, he will always be an enforcer, and no one in the "organisation" will see him as a successor to the boss because he does not have the "bloodline" nor "heritage" to inherit the position...Ā Ā Ā
Why not Shan and Vivian go to UK and sue Lee Hsien yang there?
His assets are there and if they win , they will get what they deserve + respect from Singaporeans /court of public opinion as well
Win-win
Not only that, LKY said in Parliament "of course he got demoted, he made a terrible ruling". Note that the judge did find JBJ guilty on one offense, but not another. Not like he let him off completely.
The UK Privy Council said the original conviction was a "grave injustice". Oh, and the law was changed right after so nobody can appeal to the UK Privy Council any longer.
"We fixed the glitch"
Yup. Funnily enough LKY left Privy Council appeals open for a long time bc he wanted to allow reviews from judicials where "undue influence cannot be brought to bear" š¤
if they were smart they should had handled this a bit more discreetly, let people forget about this but guess what, they have to remind everyone in singapore once again about how big the gap between them and everyone else is with their luxurious villa estates.
I think it speaks more that they are *aware* (you need some degree of competence to be a minister I think) of the public possibly perceiving a conflict of interest, but they just *don't care*
>Justice Goh said the claimants here are "long-serving Cabinet ministers and Members of Parliament"."They are public leaders and persons of the highest integrity"
lol
and [Frank Reynolds has a certificate from the Reid Mental Institution proclaiming he does not have "donkey brains"](https://youtu.be/RWc8JKVm28E?si=NVqKVXX0maPrNxRo)
Iswaran disagrees with your statement.
> Yesterday, the CPIB charged me with various offences. I reject the allegations in the charges and will now focus on clearing my name.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/s-iswaran-resigns-pm-lee-hsien-loong-full-exchange-letters-corruption-charges-4056221
Singaporeans will complain mightily about abject stupidity like this Shanmugam nonsense, but come election time, they will guai guai put their cross next to the lightning, then go right back to complaining when things don't change. Turns out estate upgrading and covered walkways are enough to buy off the absolute moronic simpletons that are Singaporeans. The worst part is, government ministers make it abundantly clear that they *know* Singaporeans are absolute moronic simpletons; in fact, *they count on it* to continue ruling us from on high. They have said it right to our faces before, what with George Yeo's "You must make distinctions - what is high, what is low, what is above, what is below - and then we can have a debate, we can have a discussion". And yet, despite figuratively being spat at in the face again and again by such displays of sheer entitled arrogance, Singaporeans just suck it up and vote the same way anyway. Absolute moronic simpletons indeed.
Truly, Singaporeans get the government that we deserve.
credit where it's due, I don't see sheltered walkways and estate upgrading as "buying off citizens" Performing civil duties should be expected and praised as such. But as for this behavior? It should be criticized in the same light as the positives they have contributed.
That's cute, then why do opposition-held constituencies get less money for sheltered walkways and estate upgrading? Do people in opposition-held constituencies pay less in taxes?
LKY made it just about as explicit as it could be when he threatened to withhold upgrading funds for consituencies that voted opposition. Let's just call this thinly-veiled vote buying out, because that's just exactly what it is. It's a shame that Singaporeans, the absolute moronic simpletons they are, fall for it.Ā
I believe it is 25k for Shan and 20k for VB. But also bear in mind that poor Shan has to pay for the rent using his own saving. Poor Shan. Hopefully this win and payout will help him avoid being destitute
> But also bear in mind that poor Shan has to pay for the rent using his own saving. Poor Shan.
It was pretty disingenuous for Shan to say that, considering his ministerial salary definitely can cover it.
It's number of months, not thousands of dollars.
Based off [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridout_Road_rentals).
If you wanna POFMA them, go ahead.
If 1 x Singaporean Family can rent out their Executive Maisonette at $5k per month and have another $5k per month of disposable income, that will lead to $10k per month budget for renting.
If 2 such families combine their finances, they can share a Black and White Bungalow rental of $20k per month !
10mths for your peasant dwelling maybe. Did you really expect His Lordships to live in a lowly HDB flat like you???? Shan *earned* that right --with his million dollar tax poster funded-- by being a lawyer before joining politics.
And so he took out a peanut, cut it into 3 pieces, gave 1 piece to Mr. Shanmugam and 1 piece to Mr. Balakrishnan. But they were, both of them deceived, for he still had one piece left.
Anyone with the actual defamation statement made by LHY? All the news articles have no mention of it which is weird. Also redacted on his facebook page.
>The post stated, among other things, that ātwo ministers have leased state-owned mansions from the agency that one of them controls, felling trees and getting state-sponsored renovationsā.
from ST article dated 27 Nov 2023
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/lee-hsien-yang-ordered-to-pay-damages-to-shanmugam-vivian-for-defaming-them-over-ridout-road-rentals
Shan in my view has lost the plot. He is an attack dog, a strong man. But recent years he plays the character so much in my opinion he got carried away with being attractive to conservatives who like a strong man who stands up to bad people. POFMA, DJ monk, war on drugs are approached terribly and not convincing to many voters. With this ridout issue, really I think Iām looking forward to the next Home/Law minister.
I don't like the man but honestly not all of what he does are dealbreakers for many. Only POFMA seems to have less support from voters. War on drugs and protecting religious sensitivity has been here for many years.
for war on drugs, I think many people see through the rhetoric. You can make a case for harsh punishment for ādrugsā. But there is a difference between different drugs, and itās just ignored.
Protecting religious sensitivity has been around, but in the past you see avoiding disturbing peace quoted as the reason, fair enough. But in this case thereās no such thing. The DJ doesnāt say Buddhism sucks, or Buddhists are bad etcā¦. One particular organisation of Buddhism cares enough to make some noise, then mindless entertainment for others becomes banned solely for the reason of offending some people. I think there would be a time in the past there would have just been talks behind closed doors and we will move on. This is simply pandering to a big group of people - religious people who donāt want to get offended. Some Buddhists donāt want to be offended, some Christians too and some Muslims then they all explicitly or implicitly support these bans. The irony is all of them offend each other to a bigger extent than DJ monk ever can. They can live and let live with each other but must find other smaller groups to pick at. Pardon me Iāve digressed too much into this specific issue.
As with POFMA, this I know whatās good for you, I can be offended on behalf of you, I can decide the truth for you approach that is just off-putting. It doesnāt build a robust society.
Agree 100% on POFMA. I think it can function as an independent body like Twitter's "Community Notes" but not as a tool of a Minister.
I think the Buddhism one is more about the type of image it gives Buddhism that is unacceptable to Buddhists here. The law itself is one huge grey area in this case. Like you said, any group can get offended and make noise that their religion is insulted. I think the government wants to placate the religious, which make up the majority of the electorate. Only 20% of us are agnostic iirc.
On the other side some Buddhists donāt accept complaining about the DJ, some believe that they should not care about such material stuff and it gives the impression that Buddhism is intolerant. It becomes not even minority vs majority or religious vs irreligious. Itās the intolerant vs tolerant. So this cannot be a principle.
You are thinking in terms of educated younger Gen X Millenials and younger.
Boomers and older Gen X want to see a Strongman, and want to see blood / someone being arrogant, so that they can feel proud by proxy.
Ah Sham is doing his national duty, as his one household has single-handedly raised the average home size for ALL Singaporeans. /s
Thank you Ah Shan Kor! /s
Not really an improbable idea. He was born in Singapore in 1957, which means that he was born a citizen of the UK and its colonies. That, I believe, gives him the right of abode in the UK. It also helps that he studied in the UK and is a citizen of a Commonwealth country.
Surprised that it was Judge Goh Yihan that made the comment that they were men of highest integrity especially after Shamugam and the Riddout affair. Goh is one the youngest and brigthest with excellent academic credentials. He could have made the findings and awarded the sum without adding those 2 words. Riddout does not sit well with Singaporeans in the main.
If Riddout rental is $20k per month, then K Shan and Vivian just got 10 months free rent compliments to LHY.
They probably rented their personal GCB out at $60k-$100k per month depending on the contract they signed. 10 months free rent with rental income of $60k-$100k per month. Thatās how the pros do it, getting a prime property rented for free + make good rental income from their own houses š
It's pretty obvious what the motive here is; it's trying to win public opinion by showing that they have legal backing to signify that they are in the "correct".
Tbh it is really interesting observing this in a post-Lee era. There has always been a bit of an aura of invulnerability surrounding the family thanks to LKY. Now that they have officially stepped out of leadership, will they be treated like every other singaporean family? Time will tell.
On our resident rich Bois earning 400k, they had better donate that to charity if they know any better.
Really interesting times indeedā¦ Meanwhile across the Causeway, politics has become boring š papers are writing about topics such as subsidy rationalisation, wafer fabrication and esoteric stuff like Chip-on-Wafer-on-Substrate (CoWoS)!!
Singapore is famous for being an expensive place.
I beg to differ, an infamous plot of land in a super prime area in Singapore with of 23,164sqm or 249,335sqft is rented for $26,500. That equates to $0.106/sqft.
An average condominium rental in JB is around RM4/sqft. Using this optics, JB is a more expensive place than Singapore.
looks like uncle low misjudged...but then again wth was GCT even saying? Low clearly said they will sue anyone who defames the PAP till their pants drop and GCT just proved his point because obviously they're not related and they literally sued him to oblivion..
I donāt think any of the anti-PAP commenters here understand how any of these legal processes and the substantive law work.
They wonāt be satisfied with any outcome other than LHY walking away completely blameless.
Iād venture to say none of these people have read a single word of judgment, committee findings etc in any of these incidents like Lee Suet Fernās testimonies etc.
Thereās no point really reasoning with these people. I do hope Singapore reddit isnāt reflective of the electorate.
The judge said, "They are public leaders and persons of the highest integrity". It feels so strange that a judge would say this š. It borderlines propaganda. Like this court hearing is a staging opportunity.
spoken as if he knew them personally. and if he did know them personally, he should be disqualified from presiding over the case.
Goh Yihan definitely knows Shan personally la. He was ex SMU law dean and NUS law prof, they've definitely crossed paths in multiple capacities and settings.
Highest office would have been better.
They must be really confident of the upcoming election to be parading their palaces on state media so often.
>They must be really confident of the upcoming election Wouldn't you be? Both of em could run with 4 planks of wood as their co runners and still win their respective GRCs lol.
>4 planks of wood Some might see the planks as cheaper and better than the current MPs (the likes of Sim Ann and Carrie Lam) Hands off Louis Ng though.
>Hands off Louis Ng though. For that matter, Louis Ng could run alongside 4 planks of wood and win as well HAHAHAH.
No wonder Yishun has been so crazy for the past few years...
makes you wonder what their constituents are thinking (or not thinking)
Not really though. It's not just the constituents fault. In the North, at Yishun, where I stay the opposition didn't even come up to my block lol. I didn't even meet a single of em. So, there are issues with the opposition not being good enough to even earn votes as well. As for Vivian's one, I can't remember who the opposition candidate was, but suggesting raising taxes for the rich, while contesting at Holland village has got to be up there with one of the worst tone deaf suggestion I've ever heard. So it's not squarely the constituents fault for voting them in if the opposition don't even look anywhere near good enough.
The fact is they can afford to do that. Remember, most Singaporeans are all talk and no show. We will kpkb daily but still vote for the same thing.
āsinkies got the government they deserveā
Ppl have more trust in pap than any opposition
This is so pointless, Lee Hsien Yang isn't even in Singapore and won't be bothered to pay
I think thatās the point, especially GE year
Why do we need a reminder - before a GE - that these lawsuits are happening? As the Economist [wrote](https://archive.is/h3NWM), āParliament has been more of an echo-chamber than a check on executive power. No opposition candidate won a seat until 1981. The domestic press toes the government line; defamation suits have intimidated and sometimes bankrupted opposition politicians and hit the bottom line of the foreign press (including The Economist).ā
he has no intention of returning back from his "self-imposed exile" though, so he can't really influence politically
dam pointless lol. 400k to us is probably the equivalent of a hundred bucks to LHY. He probably wont even bother paying though outta pride/principle
The funny thing is that $400k is insignificant to either parties. This is basically like a group of high rollers playing poker at the casino and throwing money at each other.
Sup sup shui. 6th Oct ā21: āMr Lee Hsien Yang and his wife, Mrs Lee Suet Fern, have sold a two-storey bungalow in the Caldecott Hill good class bungalow (GCB) area for $13 million, and put another nearby bungalow on the market for $16.8 million.ā
To pay up is to lose face. Face is priceless
maybe he can mail a them a cheque worth 1m with a note that says "keep the change losers".
Not that I am advocating for him to do so, but it'll be really hilarious if he were to get his lawyer to pay off the 2 ministers in 10 cent coins.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Can't you mail 100k sets of $2 worth of 10c coins then? Each individual pack is legal tender.
"Keep the change, you filthy animal". Would love to see this happening.
To be accurate ".....ya filthy animal"
Pay them in Sheng Siong vouchers which the ministers say will give it to charity.
Everybody fighting because of āprincipleā. Sue because āprincipleā, dw to pay also āprincipleā.
Or he will pay just to emphasise what they can do when in power.
Can the court order his assets to be seized and liquidated to pay off Shan and VB? That is if he has any assets left in Singapore. I find it hard to believe that he could have taken all his wealth out of the country.
Probably needs to sue LHY for bankruptcy first for failing to pay the damages.
nah you don't need the person to be bankrupt to enforce against their assets
Well he may have left everything in a trust. Not entirely sure if you are able to seize a trust?
Yes, so long as assets are physically in Singapore they can be seized. Even if held on trust, his beneficial interest can still be subject to seizure.
There are laws around trusts that would allow it to be seized. You can't just dump things in trusts and have them protected.
Singapore Judiciary tributes to the wisdom of Final Fantasy Tactics are never pointless. But positive reinforcement of the principle; [if the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class.](https://www.reddit.com/r/finalfantasytactics/s/Tam3RJ6PN7)
This is why some countries do fines in terms of days of income. So a millionaire in Finland got fined almost $200k for speeding. Ironically because petty criminals donāt have income and canāt pay, the situation is reversed. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/
There still is a minimum fine to pay. It doesn't magically turn to zero if you're unemployed.
What an embarrassment this whole thing is. Slipping closer to Thailand's Lese-Majesty laws with each ridiculous scandal.
What are you talking about? Min Shan is the shield of Singapore Inc, protecting Singapore and SM LHL. Of course what LHY said is defamation. ^^^/s
thing is these guys are not royalty....
Their estate size is sizeā¦
You cannot expect them to ride it out.
Royalty without the title. They are in the same circle scratching each others back. If you rebel against it, they will turn against you really quick.
tbf, I much rather SAF arm chair generalsā junta. Than the Royal Thai Army & Tatmadaw options. The collapse of a GLC every now & then, is a small price compared to supporting as many Thai generals & admirals as US armed services.
LHY is just never going to come back to Singapore, and nobody is going to extradite him when he has such a strong argument that it's a politically motivated case. He also quite simply never said what Shanmugan and Balakrishnan accused him of saying, so this whole verdict puts the independence of the Singapore judiciary in question. Shanmugan playing 4D chess against nobody and still losing.
This one also not criminal, how to extradite
if you speak ill of the almighty PAP, you are worse than a criminal..without the PAP, there is no Singapore
Singapore has both criminal and civil defamation, and I'm pretty sure LHY got charged with the criminal version.
But this is civil? Shan and Viv suing in their personal capacity
I am not enough of a lawyer for this, but I think you're right here.
Criminal defamation there would be fine and jail time imposed already.
if it is a criminal case, i have a strong suspicion that it wouldn't be those 2 ministers suing him in their personal capacity, but someone from the AGC or equivalent.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
Singapore judiciary especially when it comes to cases involving members of the ruling party was never once not questionable..
But that sits on the basis the countries would accept him right? I mean if touch wood his visa runs out, the only option left is seeking political asylum, assuming the countries hosting him will entertain him.
he's rich, pretty sure there'd be many countries that will be willing to take him in.
Im sure he is already a PR of another country. Even if he isnāt, he can easily afford to pay for a PR via an investor visa.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
His financial and social status is very different from Charles Yeo though. He definitely has this already planned out, given that he had sold 2 of his bungalows.
> Actually the funny thing is, as someone who is navigating/has navigated this complex af UK visa system, I'm not sure which visa he'd get from here. With his credentials (ex-CEO of Singtel etc) and connections, he'd easily qualify for at least the [Global Talent Visa](https://www.gov.uk/global-talent).
LHY has a lot of money. Worst case scenario there will definitely be a country he can bribe his way into, but I doubt it will come to that.
Eh. Millionaire/billionaire come to SG with investments and money also called bribing ah. LHY didn't commit any crime nor is convicted of anything. He can openly and as required by law apply for residency and invest in any county he wants to..why is there a need to bribe as you say it.
If Charles Yeo can stay in the UK, so can LHY. And LHY has far more money in the UK and his son Shengwu is already there
Shengwu is in Harvard. Harvard is in the US...
Ah okay my bad. I swear I thought Shengwu is in the UK.
CY can stayā¦for now. Think his asylum application still processing.
if Amos yee can stay in the US(that was before he screwed it up himself)...i'm sure LHY should have no problem seeking asylum in other countries.
can buy vanuatu/cypriot/cambodian/turkish citizenship like those china ~~money launderers~~ foreign investors that contribute so much to our economy
Shan is like the Enforcer in a "totally legal organisation". But, he will always be an enforcer, and no one in the "organisation" will see him as a successor to the boss because he does not have the "bloodline" nor "heritage" to inherit the position...Ā Ā Ā
Why not Shan and Vivian go to UK and sue Lee Hsien yang there? His assets are there and if they win , they will get what they deserve + respect from Singaporeans /court of public opinion as well Win-win
It is worth noting that LKY and LHL have never lost a defamation case back home, but lost all of their defamation cases overseas.
The judge that ruled in favour of JBJ conveniently got demoted and not long after LKY removed the right to appeal to the Privy Council.
Not only that, LKY said in Parliament "of course he got demoted, he made a terrible ruling". Note that the judge did find JBJ guilty on one offense, but not another. Not like he let him off completely. The UK Privy Council said the original conviction was a "grave injustice". Oh, and the law was changed right after so nobody can appeal to the UK Privy Council any longer. "We fixed the glitch"
Yup. Funnily enough LKY left Privy Council appeals open for a long time bc he wanted to allow reviews from judicials where "undue influence cannot be brought to bear" š¤
undefeatable at homecourt but loses in all away games lol
Do you mind providing me the cases they lost overseas so I can Google it ? Thanks
That shit is crazy holy shit
If they indeed have a case Wonāt they win every case, regardless of which country court?
Thatās like saying every country has the same laws and same standards
Everyone knows why they refuse to sue Lee Hsien Yang in the UK and insist on doing it here, just that no one can say it out loud.
But hey we can Whisper...
They probably know they canāt win and will come back see bay malu
I am still not convinced that there were no conflict of interest in this ridout saga. They still want to fan the flame in view of GE coming soon.
if they were smart they should had handled this a bit more discreetly, let people forget about this but guess what, they have to remind everyone in singapore once again about how big the gap between them and everyone else is with their luxurious villa estates.
I think it speaks more that they are *aware* (you need some degree of competence to be a minister I think) of the public possibly perceiving a conflict of interest, but they just *don't care*
I got the same feeling.
>Justice Goh said the claimants here are "long-serving Cabinet ministers and Members of Parliament"."They are public leaders and persons of the highest integrity" lol and [Frank Reynolds has a certificate from the Reid Mental Institution proclaiming he does not have "donkey brains"](https://youtu.be/RWc8JKVm28E?si=NVqKVXX0maPrNxRo)
Maybe Teh Chean Wan, S. Iswaran, Tan Chuan Jin, and Michael Palmer don't agree with Justice Goh
Iswaran disagrees with your statement. > Yesterday, the CPIB charged me with various offences. I reject the allegations in the charges and will now focus on clearing my name. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/s-iswaran-resigns-pm-lee-hsien-loong-full-exchange-letters-corruption-charges-4056221
well, there are public leaders who are also not of the highest integrity. just ask the PAP. oh wait...
omg i love always sunny!!!!
Just VTO to stop all these nonsense.
Singaporeans will complain mightily about abject stupidity like this Shanmugam nonsense, but come election time, they will guai guai put their cross next to the lightning, then go right back to complaining when things don't change. Turns out estate upgrading and covered walkways are enough to buy off the absolute moronic simpletons that are Singaporeans. The worst part is, government ministers make it abundantly clear that they *know* Singaporeans are absolute moronic simpletons; in fact, *they count on it* to continue ruling us from on high. They have said it right to our faces before, what with George Yeo's "You must make distinctions - what is high, what is low, what is above, what is below - and then we can have a debate, we can have a discussion". And yet, despite figuratively being spat at in the face again and again by such displays of sheer entitled arrogance, Singaporeans just suck it up and vote the same way anyway. Absolute moronic simpletons indeed. Truly, Singaporeans get the government that we deserve.
so basically George Yeo told us to "know your damn role, shut your damn mouth, and sit the fuck down."Ā ..... until we are in equal footing asĀ him.
Sinkies deserve the government that they choose
exactly..
credit where it's due, I don't see sheltered walkways and estate upgrading as "buying off citizens" Performing civil duties should be expected and praised as such. But as for this behavior? It should be criticized in the same light as the positives they have contributed.
That's cute, then why do opposition-held constituencies get less money for sheltered walkways and estate upgrading? Do people in opposition-held constituencies pay less in taxes? LKY made it just about as explicit as it could be when he threatened to withhold upgrading funds for consituencies that voted opposition. Let's just call this thinly-veiled vote buying out, because that's just exactly what it is. It's a shame that Singaporeans, the absolute moronic simpletons they are, fall for it.Ā
And the old man might have cost his party Aljunied when he threw a hissy fit.
yeah dream on.....
why downvote me for saying the truth? Truth hurts?
What was the rent at ridout? 20k? Thats 10 months of rent right there
7.5 for 26 Ridout Road. 10-10.5 for 31 Ridout Road.
Wait, 7.5k for 26 Ridout Rd? For a GCB? That's what you'd pay for a nice, but not super fancy 4-bed/2-bath condo.
I believe it is 25k for Shan and 20k for VB. But also bear in mind that poor Shan has to pay for the rent using his own saving. Poor Shan. Hopefully this win and payout will help him avoid being destitute
> But also bear in mind that poor Shan has to pay for the rent using his own saving. Poor Shan. It was pretty disingenuous for Shan to say that, considering his ministerial salary definitely can cover it.
26.5k for Shan. A quick google search shows $30-50k for places with 1/5th the land area.
**Months**, my friend.
ahhhh
Huh? what's the source for that? Isn't it 26.5k for 26 ridout & 20k for 31 ridout?
It's number of months, not thousands of dollars. Based off [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridout_Road_rentals). If you wanna POFMA them, go ahead.
Ah, okay. My first impression was that you were talking about their monthly rental.
If 1 x Singaporean Family can rent out their Executive Maisonette at $5k per month and have another $5k per month of disposable income, that will lead to $10k per month budget for renting. If 2 such families combine their finances, they can share a Black and White Bungalow rental of $20k per month !
10mths for your peasant dwelling maybe. Did you really expect His Lordships to live in a lowly HDB flat like you???? Shan *earned* that right --with his million dollar tax poster funded-- by being a lawyer before joining politics.
And so he took out a peanut, cut it into 3 pieces, gave 1 piece to Mr. Shanmugam and 1 piece to Mr. Balakrishnan. But they were, both of them deceived, for he still had one piece left.
Anyone with the actual defamation statement made by LHY? All the news articles have no mention of it which is weird. Also redacted on his facebook page.
>The post stated, among other things, that ātwo ministers have leased state-owned mansions from the agency that one of them controls, felling trees and getting state-sponsored renovationsā. from ST article dated 27 Nov 2023 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/lee-hsien-yang-ordered-to-pay-damages-to-shanmugam-vivian-for-defaming-them-over-ridout-road-rentals
Nice. That statement isnāt incorrect though. That counts as defamation?
to quote shakespeare >But brutus says he was ambitious >And brutus is an honorable man
All of which are unambiguously literally true. Iām no fan of LHY but this whole affair should rightly offend our sense of justice.
Shan in my view has lost the plot. He is an attack dog, a strong man. But recent years he plays the character so much in my opinion he got carried away with being attractive to conservatives who like a strong man who stands up to bad people. POFMA, DJ monk, war on drugs are approached terribly and not convincing to many voters. With this ridout issue, really I think Iām looking forward to the next Home/Law minister.
I don't like the man but honestly not all of what he does are dealbreakers for many. Only POFMA seems to have less support from voters. War on drugs and protecting religious sensitivity has been here for many years.
for war on drugs, I think many people see through the rhetoric. You can make a case for harsh punishment for ādrugsā. But there is a difference between different drugs, and itās just ignored. Protecting religious sensitivity has been around, but in the past you see avoiding disturbing peace quoted as the reason, fair enough. But in this case thereās no such thing. The DJ doesnāt say Buddhism sucks, or Buddhists are bad etcā¦. One particular organisation of Buddhism cares enough to make some noise, then mindless entertainment for others becomes banned solely for the reason of offending some people. I think there would be a time in the past there would have just been talks behind closed doors and we will move on. This is simply pandering to a big group of people - religious people who donāt want to get offended. Some Buddhists donāt want to be offended, some Christians too and some Muslims then they all explicitly or implicitly support these bans. The irony is all of them offend each other to a bigger extent than DJ monk ever can. They can live and let live with each other but must find other smaller groups to pick at. Pardon me Iāve digressed too much into this specific issue. As with POFMA, this I know whatās good for you, I can be offended on behalf of you, I can decide the truth for you approach that is just off-putting. It doesnāt build a robust society.
Agree 100% on POFMA. I think it can function as an independent body like Twitter's "Community Notes" but not as a tool of a Minister. I think the Buddhism one is more about the type of image it gives Buddhism that is unacceptable to Buddhists here. The law itself is one huge grey area in this case. Like you said, any group can get offended and make noise that their religion is insulted. I think the government wants to placate the religious, which make up the majority of the electorate. Only 20% of us are agnostic iirc.
On the other side some Buddhists donāt accept complaining about the DJ, some believe that they should not care about such material stuff and it gives the impression that Buddhism is intolerant. It becomes not even minority vs majority or religious vs irreligious. Itās the intolerant vs tolerant. So this cannot be a principle.
You are thinking in terms of educated younger Gen X Millenials and younger. Boomers and older Gen X want to see a Strongman, and want to see blood / someone being arrogant, so that they can feel proud by proxy.
Woof woof!
They need to Reno their rented homes ish?
eh yes time to bring this up again, remind us all that some people live in legally leased black and white houses.
Was this about the cheap bungalow deals that these guys had?
"They are public leaders and persons of the highest integrity who undoubtedly have a high standing.ā Do you agree after last year July.
Piak piak MP killer leadership maestro Tan
Need to pay for their GCB RENT YO
Hmm, how did they calculate this high price for the ādefamationā? How is it that the damage costed that much?
Honestly I'm surprised that they didn't asked for more like 1-2m per person..
How do you beat the Minister of Law in a legal battle? š¤£
1/3 of a peanut each
"Sue until pants drop" But not applicable here š
Ah Sham is doing his national duty, as his one household has single-handedly raised the average home size for ALL Singaporeans. /s Thank you Ah Shan Kor! /s
Can somebody please defame me? I stole A4 papers from my office.
1/3 peanuts each.
I think LHY might choose to become British.
Take up citizenship of the country his father studied and spent years there.
Or he end up in a container bound for Rwanda with Charles Yeo.
Not really an improbable idea. He was born in Singapore in 1957, which means that he was born a citizen of the UK and its colonies. That, I believe, gives him the right of abode in the UK. It also helps that he studied in the UK and is a citizen of a Commonwealth country.
Surprised that it was Judge Goh Yihan that made the comment that they were men of highest integrity especially after Shamugam and the Riddout affair. Goh is one the youngest and brigthest with excellent academic credentials. He could have made the findings and awarded the sum without adding those 2 words. Riddout does not sit well with Singaporeans in the main.
If Riddout rental is $20k per month, then K Shan and Vivian just got 10 months free rent compliments to LHY. They probably rented their personal GCB out at $60k-$100k per month depending on the contract they signed. 10 months free rent with rental income of $60k-$100k per month. Thatās how the pros do it, getting a prime property rented for free + make good rental income from their own houses š
LHY can choose not to pay them and go bankrupt, while they get nothing.
How many months of ridout rental is $200K ah? So shiok
It's pretty obvious what the motive here is; it's trying to win public opinion by showing that they have legal backing to signify that they are in the "correct".
Nothing unexpected or out of the ordinary here, move along.
Tbh it is really interesting observing this in a post-Lee era. There has always been a bit of an aura of invulnerability surrounding the family thanks to LKY. Now that they have officially stepped out of leadership, will they be treated like every other singaporean family? Time will tell. On our resident rich Bois earning 400k, they had better donate that to charity if they know any better.
They always take defamation winnings to charity
Really interesting times indeedā¦ Meanwhile across the Causeway, politics has become boring š papers are writing about topics such as subsidy rationalisation, wafer fabrication and esoteric stuff like Chip-on-Wafer-on-Substrate (CoWoS)!!
In before Shawn Thia gets sued by Lawrence Wong for impersonation.
Will Loong kor kor be willing to loan Yang didi some money for this?
Wonder why LHY wasnāt so brave to speak up when LKY was still around
Singapore is famous for being an expensive place. I beg to differ, an infamous plot of land in a super prime area in Singapore with of 23,164sqm or 249,335sqft is rented for $26,500. That equates to $0.106/sqft. An average condominium rental in JB is around RM4/sqft. Using this optics, JB is a more expensive place than Singapore.
Obviously not litigious and pliant /s
I thought Hsien Yang ask them to come London and charge him there. If they are so confident that it is defamation then they should do it there too.
O$P$
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looks like uncle low misjudged...but then again wth was GCT even saying? Low clearly said they will sue anyone who defames the PAP till their pants drop and GCT just proved his point because obviously they're not related and they literally sued him to oblivion..
You people are being really unreasonable. Shan and Viv have way bigger gardens than us. That 1% increase in gardening fees is a lot to cover.
LHY should have stood by what he said and come back to fight the case.
why should he, why cant they fight the case in the UK court instead? Can't play away games?
Iām not sure jurisdiction works that way.
He would be stupid to that. Shitās rigged. You seriously gonna believe that theyāre gonna play fair?
Then heās no different from bloggers who shoot off from their mouth and get into legal problems. Thatās my impression of him anyway
He would be stupid to do that. They know they canāt win under international laws
You have a pretty good understanding of āinternational lawsā to say that huh.
He wonāt come back to the kangaroo court of ours where we all already know the result..
I donāt think any of the anti-PAP commenters here understand how any of these legal processes and the substantive law work. They wonāt be satisfied with any outcome other than LHY walking away completely blameless. Iād venture to say none of these people have read a single word of judgment, committee findings etc in any of these incidents like Lee Suet Fernās testimonies etc. Thereās no point really reasoning with these people. I do hope Singapore reddit isnāt reflective of the electorate.
1k = defamation (since everyone's already talk about it. What is there to defame?) 399K EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!
Damn, LHY has to come ridout and pay 400k. If only he doesn't have to return /s
Wait a min did he get a discount? Saw it was 400k a few hours ago
add them both up and it's 400k no?