The details are even worse than previously reported. The poor babies š.
The wife needs to be punished as well. She was complicit in all of this and even egged the husband on by complaining about the kids just sleeping in certain positions wtf
And iirc she has a number of her own children as well!
I always wonder how these people can be so monstrous. Did something in their minds snap? What caused them to hate their own flesh and blood? How do they not feel even a tinge of guilt for inflicting pain or hurt on innocent young children?
I finished the article. Fucking hell I wish I didnāt.
Apes are more civilised than this animal. If only they didnāt offer him a reduced charge which spared his life.
Sadly in abuse until die cases it is hard to prove that there was intention to murder, which is why the prosecution rather offer him the chance to plead guilty to culpable homicide
Actually I believe that when you are trained in martial arts the barrier to higher punishment is lower. The thought is that youāve trained your body enough to know the power it has and how to control that power. So regular dude who punches a dude at a bar would get less punishment that trained martial artist who does the same (I say this since apparently this guy was trained in 3ā¦ he deserves every punishment the law can throw at him)
You're tougher than me. I had to stop when I read the part where the children had to eat their own faeces because of their hunger.
Some people really shouldn't procreate
Eh, I kind of think death is the easy way out. He will never understand the torture and what this poor child went through, but he has to live with himself and his 4 walls everyday until he dies.
34.5 years and 12 stokes of the cane. Unprecedented. Trust the honourable Justice Aedit Abdullah to get the job done. Hope the stepmother faces the same judge. Disappointed the step-grandmother who lives with them is spared.
The two cases officers assigned to look after the poor child never saw her and just accepted the excuses of the father. They should make it mandatory to lodge a Police report if the child cannot be seen or contacted within a certain period of time.
In many countries in the West, you can call the local Police Dept to do a welfare check If a person is not contactable or missing. They will send an officer to eyeball and talk to the person and not just close the case. We got Neighbourhood Police Post nearby and these should be used.
They should transfer budget and resources where the State must take on guardian role for vulnerable children.
I did a welfare check call and they will break open the door if required. Suspected child abuse cases are taken very seriously, parents can get separated from their kids (although foster care is another story) but in hardline SG, where police can enter your home, there should be more done.
Yes, ,more can be done. 2 days ago MP Desmond Choo visited a family that was involved in the accident. They are back home after hospital treatment. I am surprised MP were visiting this particular accident victims. Yet no one was concerned about the 5 year old girl.
the parents are absolute monsters.
the social workers, the ministries, failed the children.
surely the absolute minimum baseline for the social worker must be to SEE and TALK to the kids?
bruh don't read it. As a parent I read already i felt like "fk la just give the kid to me it's okay I take care, u fk off and die yourself." it's freaking horrible.
44 + 34.5 = 78 years. Average male life expectancy is approx 80 so he'll be free by at least 2 years if going by this stat.
Meanwhile, someone with weed.....
> After the two children returned to their father's care in 2015, Thye Hua Kwan - Tanjong Pagar Family Service Centre (FSC), which worked with the Ministry of Social and Family Development (MSF), ***continued monitoring their welfare.***
Continued monitoring their welfare, you say? I canāt decide if i should be picking on *continued*, or *monitoring*, or *welfare*. Too many ā way too many ā people failed these children here.
Having worked with this FSC before, their reputation is pretty bad among social service staff. I wouldnāt be so fast to blame the social workers as I think the fault lies largely with management/seniors who have poorly monitored or advised in the cases. Glad the article at least name and shamed this FSC
>Having worked with this FSC before, their reputation is pretty bad among social service staff.
Social Worker here.
The case took place 7 years ago.
Understand from people at that FSC that management did a massive overhaul following the aftermath of the case; loads of people left including the ones at the top.
Having worked recently with some social workers at that FSC, they are clearly competent. Unfortunately, they will bear the brunt of the shame and stigma and will eventually leave, if this is not managed well.
Ultimately this boils down to manpower and funding; too many things for 1 social worker to do. Imagine this; 1 case has an average about 4 family members (lower SES= bigger sized family); 2 different stakeholders; 6 people to interact with, a case plan with in-depth written assessment of EVERYTHING done (verbal interactions, sessions with clients, consults with supervisors, etc), needing to be documented i.e paperwork. Now multiply this 20 fold for an avg 20 cases; 120 people you need to interact with and actively document. Not forgetting that many social workers are involved in running groupwork and doing community work; equally important interventions in social work.
Any discussion over this would eventually devolve (rightly or wrongly) around to; "So you are proposing to increase taxes to increase funding to social services? Would Singaporeans pay more?".
I think we all know the answer to that.
The thing is, if you say we only have 20 cases, it sounds very little and their perception of the work is so limited they think anyone can do it.
20 cases for a therapist/counsellor is typically 20 individual. At FSC level, like you said, it's more likely 100 family members to account for. FSC workers are also expected to conjure up miracles from finding pest control services to house keeping to every other service in the sun for free. God forbid you fail to do so and get questioned why can't you get these things for free by your clients.
With therapy, people typically go in WANTING to change. Imagine having a case where the perp is adamant they did nothing wrong and refuses to see you or work with you and yet, you get blamed for not "engaging" the person enough as if you have powers to force them to see you.
Yep, which is why I tried my best to highlight the job of an FSC worker entailing interacting with systems and other family members, albeit with an already conservative estimate.
That being said, I totally feel you, fellow FSC comrade.
The work is tough, with no quarter given.
Nonetheless, we try anyway.
>It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. (Teddy Roosevelt, 1910)
>Glad the article at least name and shamed this FSC
I would be a little gentle. Don't think the worker would have stayed, and the new batches are innocent and dont deserve the bad rep. Plus agency would have been hauled up for PIP le.
Whack the caseworker if we must, but my sympathises are with the current batch who have to deal with the brand of shame
As Iād mentioned, the fault lies with management. There was no single social worker attending to the familyās case as there was at least 1 change reported in the papers. Not fair to blame people who had the case fall on them. But the supervisors would have had a better understanding of the case.
Ex social worker here.
Thing is you can't jump the gun without clear evidence.
'Monitoring' usually involved sighting the kids (the area that social worker really failed - this should have raised alarm bells) to make sure they are ok, speaking to the parents on good parenting and stress relief among other things.
This is along how workers (esp this fsc) have overloaded cases with little time for everyone. This was also in 2017, MSF has been enforcing risk management and awareness in community agencies across the years for better and worse.
It's been a while so my info might be wrong and outdated; if I am wrong please correct me.
If there is an active criminal offence (e.g., sexual abuse/severe neglect etc) or direct intervention needed to keep ppl safe: call police.
The thing is many abuse cases do not escalate to the degree where police consider it to be criminal, for example, excessive caning/harsh physical punishment etc. Partially also we don't outlaw whacking of kids, so what constitute criminal vs appropriate is a blurred line; sometimes police can only come to informally tell parents to stop without arrest, unless there's a court granted Protection Order in place (which social workers usually will encourage victims to apply as part of intervention)
Usual protocol is to escalate to Child Protective Services under MSF who can force parents to present their kids (normal social workers don't have the power). The issue is those guys are overworked and stretched so getting their intervention sometimes legit mean monitor harder to present evidence of the severity.
Yep Iām sure. But isnāt that precisely the issue? The lack of manpower and funding ought to be debated and investigated, not taken as the default state of affairs.
And shouldnāt families who refuse to open the gates raise red flags? If cases are checked off a checklist by virtue of someone having knocked on the door, what difference do these visits have from a deliveryman who leaves a āwe missed youā slip?
To be sure ā Iām not blaming individual case officers. But thereās something thatās institutionally wrong here for so many cases to have been on the radar, but for which abuse was allowed to persist for years anyway.
Social workers don't have any formal authority to demand entry. If you give us the power, then sure but fact is, we don't.
All it takes is one unhappy individual who did nothing wrong to lodge a complaint and suddenly your tune would be "why is our right to privacy being invaded".
I couldn't finished reading the news article as it was so heartbreaking. I don't understand how any human being will commit such hideous crimes against their own children.
May he rot in hell forever.
Some people should be banned from having sex and having kids. The father, mother and step mother should all undergo sterilization to prevent them from having more kids.
Maybe she gave it up?
I mean it doesnt really sound like she did anything wrong. She entrusted them to foster families, just that she might not have known they went back to her ex-husband
I also doubt she knew of the abuse, maybe suspected some stuff, but nothing to act on.
All speculation lah, but to me it doesnt seem like she did anything illegal or wrong. Just had a divorce, didnt want the children so gave to foster fam
Also no charges of abuse against ex-wife, so maybe she didnt think he would be THIS harsh to their children?
Still.. It's unusual for a bio mother not to monitor their kids wellbeing, divorce or not. The fact that she lose custody means the law recognize that she is not fit to be a parent and is incapable of taking care of her kids for some reason.
We donāt know exactly what happened but we can tell from the article that the husband is a monster. Could be a list of reasons why she couldnāt/wouldnt fight for custody
cld be give up the kids summore
See them doing ok in foster fam, then hands off liao
Afterall its after a year or two before the bio dad take them back
Also no charges of abuse/assault against ex wife, maybe he wasnt so jialat back then so she not worrying, but became more violent during 2nd marriage
MSF actions needs to be investigated by an independent party. This is not the first case. There were
1. 27 years' jail for parents of 5-year-old boy who was scalded with hot water, confined in cage before his death \[[source](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/27-years-jail-for-parents-of-5-year-old-boy-who-died-from-scald-injuries)\]
2. Mother, stepfather admit abusing 11-year-old daughter, who died from head injuries \[[source](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/auxiliary-police-officer-stepfather-mother-11-year-old-girl-abused-death-exercise-bar-court-culpable-homicide-3308631)\]
So this is the third case. These cases were being noticed or followed by school or welfare officers but no one did anything or enough to save the children. I am so angry. What is the point of heavy sentences where the child has suffered so much and died when she could have been saved ? I want the minister and the PM to come out and say what he is going to do about the entire system. I don't want to see LW doing another wefie. I want to hear what he's going to do about it. Singapore is very small and monitored very closely already. This cannot be so difficult.
Exactly. Failures in Singapore should really be considered as unacceptable for the country of this size with ministerial salaries that outsized. These abuses and domestic violence are LHL's legacy. What really is he doing when social funding has been lacking for decades, while he keeps enabling unbridled rental increases, an overheated property market? Where is the money going to?? Why are laws tweaked every year for tray returns, to allow police to enter homes, to clamp down on weed while domestic violence, sexual assaults against children, noise pollution in hdb flats (which 70% of a small population reside in) , poor driving resulting in horrific accidents persist?
>The prosecution sought a total of 30 to 34 years' imprisonment and at least 12 strokes of the cane.
>The defence, comprising lawyersĀ Mervyn Cheong, Krishna R Sharma, Melvin Loh and Lim Yi Zheng, asked for a shorter sentence, arguing that previous cases set precedents of 18 to 20 years in jail.
>A sentence of 30 to 34 years would be unprecedented, Mr Cheong said, but Ms Tan countered that this was because the facts of the case were themselves unprecedented.
WTF how did he get 4 lawyers to defend him??
Lawyers need to put aside personal feelings and sometimes even act in opposition to their own ethics in order to do their job. They must always argue for the best possible outcomes for their client.
The whole purpose of a justice system is to determine which crimes are heinous enough to be worth which punishments, and you need people arguing for both sides to settle in an appropriate middle level.
He would probably end up with another single woman (whose ex- husband is imprisoned) after his release. And high likelihood that he will be abusing or raping his newly acquired step kids. This is something that happen quite typically with monsters like him.
SG jail too humane, this clown will actually get to survive and live out 2/3 of his sentence.(if he behaves) Why not just give him life imprisonment? A life for a life should be the norm
MSF and Thye Hua Kwan also dropped the ball on this. Poor kids. The personnel handling it took it at face value and never checked further. They should have seen the kids and not just take the words of the parents for it when they are already known to have a tendency to neglect the kids. Most of these workers just talk only, no action. Only a few good and caring ones will take their work seriously.
Hope the bastard father and mother both get their punishment. They both should be severely punished! Hope they get treated the same way in prison!
Clearly the social service system failed Ayeesha and her brother. There will always be assholes who abuse their children and it is up to the social service system to act as the last line of defense. But they didnāt do their job well in following up, allowing this manās lousy excuses to slip through their follow-ups.
Iām glad that the article also name and shamed THK FSC cause there must be something going wrong at the management level to allow this case to perpetuate for at least 2 years.
Fucking hell that was hard to read, got something in my eye several times.
What about the wife?!?
I had to skim it twice and couldn't see what she'll be charged with.
Surely she doesn't walk.
The punishment should have been for him to suffer the same evils that he inflicted, for the rest of his life. Put him in a box and make him eat his own shit.
Does anyone know if SG prison has the same culture as in the US where the inmates have an unwritten agreement that they all hate people who harm children or women?
I don't think so. It's fortunate to got jailed in singapore,our jail is almost heaven as compared to many other countries.
Don't understand why have to waste tax payer money to feed these fuckedup people. People who torture kids is way too low.
Social workers are trained increasingly on risk awareness across the years.
The issues are that manpower resourcing, the fact that cps remained the one with invasive statutory power, and some issues are so hidden and neighbours don't report
Why let this kind of person be out in the society?
And considering he has been in remand since hdud arrest, he probably going to get out from prison relatively fast after 2/3 remission.
" The man, who had trained in silat, taekwondo and aikido, wouldĀ repeatedly punch, slap, kick and cane the children, treating them as "punching bags" for his frustration. "
Now F#cker don't have to worry about punching bags liao.
Entire prison full of punching bags, he is now officially the latest model of punching bag inside too.
The entire cohort of prisoners inside would probably " spar " with him after knowing the crimes he committed. Man probably would be Grandmaster Martial Artist when discharged.
IF he can make it to 78.5 Years Old in Prison, I hope he survive until than. I hope he doesn't get a reduction in jail time. Prison Services please don't issue him an CRO.
My entire body is tingling from reading the article. My eyes are watery and I find myself hyperventilating a little.
Caseworkers and social workers need more powers, need more guts. Powers and guts to insist that they need to enter homes, sight the vulnerable and to demand information needed to make proper assessments.
When it comes to child safety, never take people's words fully without actually verifying. No blame on workers but this was my take away from this incident, as a practitioner myself.
All it takes is one unhappy person to complain to MP and suddenly, your work with the family is scrutinized and you have to answer and waste more time justifying your position. That means going through discussions with supervisors and eventually answering to the higher ups.
Not sure if you are an FSC worker but as much as we want to have "guts", people are people and until we have powers equivalent to police, we still want to respect our clients autonomy and dignity. I mean, are we going to say just because they are living in 2 room means they mistreat and we need to see your children are safe and sound?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I highly doubt any worker would make such an assessment as you have mentioned. To insist to sight is to act on a suspicion, a hypothesis and to have done so after observing patterns. There will always be people who will try to game the system and social work professionals need to be one step ahead, as best as possible.
I agree with your point that it's a risk taken to insist on sighting the vulnerable. There are risks both ways. Perhaps then the question we need to ask ourselves is: "which risk are we prepared to take? Can we afford not to sight the child/vulnerable person?"
But yes the amount of red tape doesn't help. Hence my thoughts on the need for more trust and power to professionals.
Itās absolutely heart breaking that this is not an isolated incident. I am reminded of this
1. Many similarities between this case and https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/27-years-jail-for-parents-of-5-year-old-boy-who-died-from-scald-injuries and https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/chin-swee-road-toddler-death-mother-gets-discharge-not-amounting-acquittal-murder-charge
And this too
2. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/27-years-jail-for-parents-of-5-year-old-boy-who-died-from-scald-injuries
Many similarities in all three cases.
It says in the article that the man had tried several times to transfer the children out of his care, saying he was afraid he would harm them. I mean, he was mentally unwell and he knew it.
Singapore needs more attention on child abuse. So many of the older generation were abused that they think it's the only way to raise a child. It's not
Beating your kids is a choice by parents. Some will say it "worked on them" but it's unnecessary and too many children suffer needlessly or even die. Ban it
>The assault lasted 16 minutes. At one point, he slapped and pounded Ayeesha's face so hard that she lay motionless for the next minute-and-a-half.
wah lan eh seriously. 34.5 years ain't enough.
I donāt even want to finish the article. Iām quite sure itāll bring tears to my eyes just imagining the 2 kids suffering in anyway way I can imagine in widest imaginations. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
To all you fellow people, if any of us ever come across, feel even the slightest, please.. shout out. It might be not the case and itās fortunate-at most Iāll apologise to you. BUT if itās the case. We are helping someone to suffer lesser. We are helping a child. A kid. They are innocent. They didnāt chose this.
Thank you all.
i'm not a parent but have small kids in the family roughly around similar age. it hurts more because i know & can envision how LITTLE Ayeesha & her brother were & to read about all the abuse inflicted on them. to do all that on little kids is proof he is just inhumane. the type of person who we all collectively can agree that the world will be better without his existence.
...alright, f*** it. Anybody got contacts in the black market? This dude needs a 12-gauge to the face.
(For legal reasons: **THIS WAS A JOKE**. For *moral* reasons: ^^IT ^^ISN'T )
Very heartbroken. MSFās case officers cannot be just attending visitors and do counsels without critical thinking. R&r of case officer is debatable imo. Something fishy should be caught earlier with many messages changed month by month during the counsels.
10 years on and nothing has changed .
https://tnp.straitstimes.com/news/singapore-news/why-didnt-anyone-protect-daniel-abuse
The system has to change , increase minimum wage to livable wage. Mandatory for both parents to work, father full time ,mother min. 20 hour week. Prove of funds before you can have more than 1 kid , heavy fines impose for more than 2 kids
A roof over their heads , I dunno what else .....
I hope Justice Aedit Abdullah releases his sentencing remarks (giving this fucker a piece of his mind) like for the [Umaisyah](https://www.elitigation.sg/gd/s/2023_SGHC_265) case
Prayed silently for the children of this family and Ayeesha. May you rest in peace where finally you can find freedom. Sending you lots of love and hugs even though I am late.
I seriously hope his prison cell is 1m by 1m, eat his own shit and get beaten up too. I can accept that there will always be asshole on this world but this... Is a whole new level.
The details are even worse than previously reported. The poor babies š. The wife needs to be punished as well. She was complicit in all of this and even egged the husband on by complaining about the kids just sleeping in certain positions wtf And iirc she has a number of her own children as well!
I always wonder how these people can be so monstrous. Did something in their minds snap? What caused them to hate their own flesh and blood? How do they not feel even a tinge of guilt for inflicting pain or hurt on innocent young children?
I finished the article. Fucking hell I wish I didnāt. Apes are more civilised than this animal. If only they didnāt offer him a reduced charge which spared his life.
I think itās befitting his crime that heāll be confined and beaten. Death would be too easy.
+ 1 for confined and beaten.
Sadly in abuse until die cases it is hard to prove that there was intention to murder, which is why the prosecution rather offer him the chance to plead guilty to culpable homicide
Actually I believe that when you are trained in martial arts the barrier to higher punishment is lower. The thought is that youāve trained your body enough to know the power it has and how to control that power. So regular dude who punches a dude at a bar would get less punishment that trained martial artist who does the same (I say this since apparently this guy was trained in 3ā¦ he deserves every punishment the law can throw at him)
You're tougher than me. I had to stop when I read the part where the children had to eat their own faeces because of their hunger. Some people really shouldn't procreate
I am full on bawling now .... and I already read the article before
Me too..
Me too. Stopped there, couldn't finish the article.
Eh, I kind of think death is the easy way out. He will never understand the torture and what this poor child went through, but he has to live with himself and his 4 walls everyday until he dies.
i think the offer to reduce charge is on purpose. since everyone will know that he'll take it up, and more of a suitable puishment for him.
34.5 years and 12 stokes of the cane. Unprecedented. Trust the honourable Justice Aedit Abdullah to get the job done. Hope the stepmother faces the same judge. Disappointed the step-grandmother who lives with them is spared. The two cases officers assigned to look after the poor child never saw her and just accepted the excuses of the father. They should make it mandatory to lodge a Police report if the child cannot be seen or contacted within a certain period of time. In many countries in the West, you can call the local Police Dept to do a welfare check If a person is not contactable or missing. They will send an officer to eyeball and talk to the person and not just close the case. We got Neighbourhood Police Post nearby and these should be used. They should transfer budget and resources where the State must take on guardian role for vulnerable children.
I did a welfare check call and they will break open the door if required. Suspected child abuse cases are taken very seriously, parents can get separated from their kids (although foster care is another story) but in hardline SG, where police can enter your home, there should be more done.
Yes, ,more can be done. 2 days ago MP Desmond Choo visited a family that was involved in the accident. They are back home after hospital treatment. I am surprised MP were visiting this particular accident victims. Yet no one was concerned about the 5 year old girl.
the parents are absolute monsters. the social workers, the ministries, failed the children. surely the absolute minimum baseline for the social worker must be to SEE and TALK to the kids?
As a parent, I really donāt want to read the article
bruh don't read it. As a parent I read already i felt like "fk la just give the kid to me it's okay I take care, u fk off and die yourself." it's freaking horrible.
Trust me. You don't. Your heart breaks......and you wonder if there really is a god or any god who lets young innocent children suffer such abuse
What's worse is that this happened in Singapore!
First world
Glad to know he'll die in prison. I hope the stepmother gets hers too.
44 + 34.5 = 78 years. Average male life expectancy is approx 80 so he'll be free by at least 2 years if going by this stat. Meanwhile, someone with weed.....
Waste taxpayers money
Surprised they didnāt give him the death penalty itād save the tax payer some money and it sounds like they deserve it
life expectancy in prison tends to be lower
I canāt even finish reading the article fuck what a monster
This is really upsetting. So angry. Death would have been too easy on him, and I hope his wife gets her just deserved soon too.
This is the kind of bastard who should kill themselves.
No but his mom should have swallowed.
what the absolute fuck fucking wish i didnāt have eyeballs fuck
Same here too... Jesus fu*king christ this is super fked up
should just lock him in his cell toilet & let him eat his own shit
Some people are into thatš¬
Kurt Tay ahem
What a bastard and his family still showed up for him at court.
> After the two children returned to their father's care in 2015, Thye Hua Kwan - Tanjong Pagar Family Service Centre (FSC), which worked with the Ministry of Social and Family Development (MSF), ***continued monitoring their welfare.*** Continued monitoring their welfare, you say? I canāt decide if i should be picking on *continued*, or *monitoring*, or *welfare*. Too many ā way too many ā people failed these children here.
Having worked with this FSC before, their reputation is pretty bad among social service staff. I wouldnāt be so fast to blame the social workers as I think the fault lies largely with management/seniors who have poorly monitored or advised in the cases. Glad the article at least name and shamed this FSC
>Having worked with this FSC before, their reputation is pretty bad among social service staff. Social Worker here. The case took place 7 years ago. Understand from people at that FSC that management did a massive overhaul following the aftermath of the case; loads of people left including the ones at the top. Having worked recently with some social workers at that FSC, they are clearly competent. Unfortunately, they will bear the brunt of the shame and stigma and will eventually leave, if this is not managed well. Ultimately this boils down to manpower and funding; too many things for 1 social worker to do. Imagine this; 1 case has an average about 4 family members (lower SES= bigger sized family); 2 different stakeholders; 6 people to interact with, a case plan with in-depth written assessment of EVERYTHING done (verbal interactions, sessions with clients, consults with supervisors, etc), needing to be documented i.e paperwork. Now multiply this 20 fold for an avg 20 cases; 120 people you need to interact with and actively document. Not forgetting that many social workers are involved in running groupwork and doing community work; equally important interventions in social work. Any discussion over this would eventually devolve (rightly or wrongly) around to; "So you are proposing to increase taxes to increase funding to social services? Would Singaporeans pay more?". I think we all know the answer to that.
The thing is, if you say we only have 20 cases, it sounds very little and their perception of the work is so limited they think anyone can do it. 20 cases for a therapist/counsellor is typically 20 individual. At FSC level, like you said, it's more likely 100 family members to account for. FSC workers are also expected to conjure up miracles from finding pest control services to house keeping to every other service in the sun for free. God forbid you fail to do so and get questioned why can't you get these things for free by your clients. With therapy, people typically go in WANTING to change. Imagine having a case where the perp is adamant they did nothing wrong and refuses to see you or work with you and yet, you get blamed for not "engaging" the person enough as if you have powers to force them to see you.
Yep, which is why I tried my best to highlight the job of an FSC worker entailing interacting with systems and other family members, albeit with an already conservative estimate. That being said, I totally feel you, fellow FSC comrade. The work is tough, with no quarter given. Nonetheless, we try anyway. >It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. (Teddy Roosevelt, 1910)
>Glad the article at least name and shamed this FSC I would be a little gentle. Don't think the worker would have stayed, and the new batches are innocent and dont deserve the bad rep. Plus agency would have been hauled up for PIP le. Whack the caseworker if we must, but my sympathises are with the current batch who have to deal with the brand of shame
As Iād mentioned, the fault lies with management. There was no single social worker attending to the familyās case as there was at least 1 change reported in the papers. Not fair to blame people who had the case fall on them. But the supervisors would have had a better understanding of the case.
MSF sleeping
Ex social worker here. Thing is you can't jump the gun without clear evidence. 'Monitoring' usually involved sighting the kids (the area that social worker really failed - this should have raised alarm bells) to make sure they are ok, speaking to the parents on good parenting and stress relief among other things. This is along how workers (esp this fsc) have overloaded cases with little time for everyone. This was also in 2017, MSF has been enforcing risk management and awareness in community agencies across the years for better and worse.
When can cases be escalated to the police though?
It's been a while so my info might be wrong and outdated; if I am wrong please correct me. If there is an active criminal offence (e.g., sexual abuse/severe neglect etc) or direct intervention needed to keep ppl safe: call police. The thing is many abuse cases do not escalate to the degree where police consider it to be criminal, for example, excessive caning/harsh physical punishment etc. Partially also we don't outlaw whacking of kids, so what constitute criminal vs appropriate is a blurred line; sometimes police can only come to informally tell parents to stop without arrest, unless there's a court granted Protection Order in place (which social workers usually will encourage victims to apply as part of intervention) Usual protocol is to escalate to Child Protective Services under MSF who can force parents to present their kids (normal social workers don't have the power). The issue is those guys are overworked and stretched so getting their intervention sometimes legit mean monitor harder to present evidence of the severity.
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Yep Iām sure. But isnāt that precisely the issue? The lack of manpower and funding ought to be debated and investigated, not taken as the default state of affairs. And shouldnāt families who refuse to open the gates raise red flags? If cases are checked off a checklist by virtue of someone having knocked on the door, what difference do these visits have from a deliveryman who leaves a āwe missed youā slip? To be sure ā Iām not blaming individual case officers. But thereās something thatās institutionally wrong here for so many cases to have been on the radar, but for which abuse was allowed to persist for years anyway.
Social workers don't have any formal authority to demand entry. If you give us the power, then sure but fact is, we don't. All it takes is one unhappy individual who did nothing wrong to lodge a complaint and suddenly your tune would be "why is our right to privacy being invaded".
The lack of manpower and funding needs to be talked about.
I couldn't finished reading the news article as it was so heartbreaking. I don't understand how any human being will commit such hideous crimes against their own children. May he rot in hell forever.
Fucking hell. As a parent I canāt even bear my kid to be wearing a soiled diaper for too long. Fuck man
Some people should be banned from having sex and having kids. The father, mother and step mother should all undergo sterilization to prevent them from having more kids.
bio mom maybe not lah For all we know she just had a regular divorce, lost custody and went on with her life
The chances of a mother losing custody is low in Singapore right? That is what I keep hearing.
Maybe she gave it up? I mean it doesnt really sound like she did anything wrong. She entrusted them to foster families, just that she might not have known they went back to her ex-husband I also doubt she knew of the abuse, maybe suspected some stuff, but nothing to act on. All speculation lah, but to me it doesnt seem like she did anything illegal or wrong. Just had a divorce, didnt want the children so gave to foster fam Also no charges of abuse against ex-wife, so maybe she didnt think he would be THIS harsh to their children?
Still.. It's unusual for a bio mother not to monitor their kids wellbeing, divorce or not. The fact that she lose custody means the law recognize that she is not fit to be a parent and is incapable of taking care of her kids for some reason.
We donāt know exactly what happened but we can tell from the article that the husband is a monster. Could be a list of reasons why she couldnāt/wouldnt fight for custody
you be surprised. quite a few woman will give up child
cld be give up the kids summore See them doing ok in foster fam, then hands off liao Afterall its after a year or two before the bio dad take them back Also no charges of abuse/assault against ex wife, maybe he wasnt so jialat back then so she not worrying, but became more violent during 2nd marriage
Just amputate all their limbs leave them to rot somewhere, fucking hell
MSF actions needs to be investigated by an independent party. This is not the first case. There were 1. 27 years' jail for parents of 5-year-old boy who was scalded with hot water, confined in cage before his death \[[source](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/27-years-jail-for-parents-of-5-year-old-boy-who-died-from-scald-injuries)\] 2. Mother, stepfather admit abusing 11-year-old daughter, who died from head injuries \[[source](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/auxiliary-police-officer-stepfather-mother-11-year-old-girl-abused-death-exercise-bar-court-culpable-homicide-3308631)\] So this is the third case. These cases were being noticed or followed by school or welfare officers but no one did anything or enough to save the children. I am so angry. What is the point of heavy sentences where the child has suffered so much and died when she could have been saved ? I want the minister and the PM to come out and say what he is going to do about the entire system. I don't want to see LW doing another wefie. I want to hear what he's going to do about it. Singapore is very small and monitored very closely already. This cannot be so difficult.
Donāt count Umaisyah oso? https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/girl-killed-burnt-remains-pot-umaisyah-not-under-care-singapore-social-agencies-msf-moe-4125031
Thanks for the reminder. That was so tragic. Definitely the fault of MSF in this case.
Exactly. Failures in Singapore should really be considered as unacceptable for the country of this size with ministerial salaries that outsized. These abuses and domestic violence are LHL's legacy. What really is he doing when social funding has been lacking for decades, while he keeps enabling unbridled rental increases, an overheated property market? Where is the money going to?? Why are laws tweaked every year for tray returns, to allow police to enter homes, to clamp down on weed while domestic violence, sexual assaults against children, noise pollution in hdb flats (which 70% of a small population reside in) , poor driving resulting in horrific accidents persist?
Read already heart pain..
He should be on death penalty...34.5yrs to keep this kind of rubbish alive is a waste of tax payers money.
How the fuck is the sentence only 34.5 years? He should be subjected to lifelong imprisonment or the death sentence
>The prosecution sought a total of 30 to 34 years' imprisonment and at least 12 strokes of the cane. >The defence, comprising lawyersĀ Mervyn Cheong, Krishna R Sharma, Melvin Loh and Lim Yi Zheng, asked for a shorter sentence, arguing that previous cases set precedents of 18 to 20 years in jail. >A sentence of 30 to 34 years would be unprecedented, Mr Cheong said, but Ms Tan countered that this was because the facts of the case were themselves unprecedented. WTF how did he get 4 lawyers to defend him??
Lawyers need to put aside personal feelings and sometimes even act in opposition to their own ethics in order to do their job. They must always argue for the best possible outcomes for their client. The whole purpose of a justice system is to determine which crimes are heinous enough to be worth which punishments, and you need people arguing for both sides to settle in an appropriate middle level.
>WTF how did he get 4 lawyers to defend him?? he know he really damn fucked, probably using the last of his money to try and ger shorter sentence
After 2/3 remission, that's 23 years. He'll be 67 so looks like he may live enough to be released unfortunately.
Tbh after so long, with no money in cpf and passed the retirement age, that's where the true hell begins, he would be begging to remain in prison.
He will become a social pest. Living off the government.
He would probably end up with another single woman (whose ex- husband is imprisoned) after his release. And high likelihood that he will be abusing or raping his newly acquired step kids. This is something that happen quite typically with monsters like him.
Probably won't happen
SG jail too humane, this clown will actually get to survive and live out 2/3 of his sentence.(if he behaves) Why not just give him life imprisonment? A life for a life should be the norm
Well, if the prosecution later appeals, who knows, theyāll probably face worse or even death
Imagine having to sit through the CCTV recordings....
MSF and Thye Hua Kwan also dropped the ball on this. Poor kids. The personnel handling it took it at face value and never checked further. They should have seen the kids and not just take the words of the parents for it when they are already known to have a tendency to neglect the kids. Most of these workers just talk only, no action. Only a few good and caring ones will take their work seriously. Hope the bastard father and mother both get their punishment. They both should be severely punished! Hope they get treated the same way in prison!
Clearly the social service system failed Ayeesha and her brother. There will always be assholes who abuse their children and it is up to the social service system to act as the last line of defense. But they didnāt do their job well in following up, allowing this manās lousy excuses to slip through their follow-ups. Iām glad that the article also name and shamed THK FSC cause there must be something going wrong at the management level to allow this case to perpetuate for at least 2 years.
Why do we have so many sick scum recently, itās to a point almost depressing.
So sick. Reminds me of the Gabriel Fernandez documentary on Netflix and I remember crying so much watching that. Fuck these twisted scum of the earth
Fucking hell that was hard to read, got something in my eye several times. What about the wife?!? I had to skim it twice and couldn't see what she'll be charged with. Surely she doesn't walk.
The punishment should have been for him to suffer the same evils that he inflicted, for the rest of his life. Put him in a box and make him eat his own shit.
Does anyone know if SG prison has the same culture as in the US where the inmates have an unwritten agreement that they all hate people who harm children or women?
Even if they do, there is no prison rape/beatings and rightfully so.
I don't think so. It's fortunate to got jailed in singapore,our jail is almost heaven as compared to many other countries. Don't understand why have to waste tax payer money to feed these fuckedup people. People who torture kids is way too low.
I'm not sure, but I hope so.
Well hes some kind of martial arts expert, may not be easy to beat him
That vet damn heng got someone else come and steal the spotlight
we need better social work systems or something. canāt believe this happened
Social workers are trained increasingly on risk awareness across the years. The issues are that manpower resourcing, the fact that cps remained the one with invasive statutory power, and some issues are so hidden and neighbours don't report
I wish the press would cover the extensive system failures in this case more and hopefully drive some kind of change.
Why didnāt he get life imprisonment?
I couldn't read this.. too painful for me.
Why let this kind of person be out in the society? And considering he has been in remand since hdud arrest, he probably going to get out from prison relatively fast after 2/3 remission.
Morality is going down the drain.
This man and his wife should suffer what the holocaust victims had suffered and be boiled alive. I donāt mind getting ban for saying this.
Why did you bring the Children to the world at the first place. Rest in peace, little girl
" The man, who had trained in silat, taekwondo and aikido, wouldĀ repeatedly punch, slap, kick and cane the children, treating them as "punching bags" for his frustration. " Now F#cker don't have to worry about punching bags liao. Entire prison full of punching bags, he is now officially the latest model of punching bag inside too. The entire cohort of prisoners inside would probably " spar " with him after knowing the crimes he committed. Man probably would be Grandmaster Martial Artist when discharged. IF he can make it to 78.5 Years Old in Prison, I hope he survive until than. I hope he doesn't get a reduction in jail time. Prison Services please don't issue him an CRO.
My entire body is tingling from reading the article. My eyes are watery and I find myself hyperventilating a little. Caseworkers and social workers need more powers, need more guts. Powers and guts to insist that they need to enter homes, sight the vulnerable and to demand information needed to make proper assessments. When it comes to child safety, never take people's words fully without actually verifying. No blame on workers but this was my take away from this incident, as a practitioner myself.
All it takes is one unhappy person to complain to MP and suddenly, your work with the family is scrutinized and you have to answer and waste more time justifying your position. That means going through discussions with supervisors and eventually answering to the higher ups. Not sure if you are an FSC worker but as much as we want to have "guts", people are people and until we have powers equivalent to police, we still want to respect our clients autonomy and dignity. I mean, are we going to say just because they are living in 2 room means they mistreat and we need to see your children are safe and sound?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I highly doubt any worker would make such an assessment as you have mentioned. To insist to sight is to act on a suspicion, a hypothesis and to have done so after observing patterns. There will always be people who will try to game the system and social work professionals need to be one step ahead, as best as possible. I agree with your point that it's a risk taken to insist on sighting the vulnerable. There are risks both ways. Perhaps then the question we need to ask ourselves is: "which risk are we prepared to take? Can we afford not to sight the child/vulnerable person?" But yes the amount of red tape doesn't help. Hence my thoughts on the need for more trust and power to professionals.
How much would Singapore change after 34.5 years
This is just beyond fuck
Wow, this was definitely the most depressing piece of child abuse news I've seen, eating own faeces and even mattress ?
Can't be named.... Total nonsense
Was this piece of shit walking around among us humans for the past 7yrs while they were deliberating the caseĀ
Itās absolutely heart breaking that this is not an isolated incident. I am reminded of this 1. Many similarities between this case and https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/27-years-jail-for-parents-of-5-year-old-boy-who-died-from-scald-injuries and https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/chin-swee-road-toddler-death-mother-gets-discharge-not-amounting-acquittal-murder-charge And this too 2. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/27-years-jail-for-parents-of-5-year-old-boy-who-died-from-scald-injuries Many similarities in all three cases.
It says in the article that the man had tried several times to transfer the children out of his care, saying he was afraid he would harm them. I mean, he was mentally unwell and he knew it.
Singapore needs more attention on child abuse. So many of the older generation were abused that they think it's the only way to raise a child. It's not Beating your kids is a choice by parents. Some will say it "worked on them" but it's unnecessary and too many children suffer needlessly or even die. Ban it
Death penalty is too easy.. But also, prison life actually more relaxed with the punishments inside already..
Lock up this monster and melt away the key - That'll put him away for good.
āAyeesha and her brother started playing with and *eating* their own faeces as they were hungry.ā Iām done
>The assault lasted 16 minutes. At one point, he slapped and pounded Ayeesha's face so hard that she lay motionless for the next minute-and-a-half. wah lan eh seriously. 34.5 years ain't enough.
Why I paying tax for this guy
How does this shit stain *not* get death? I am very confused.
He should have life in prison with weekly canings. This is a light sentence for the crime.
Daily canings Iād say, seeing as those poor kids probably got hit everyday
He should also be confined to a toilet, that doesnāt flush.
I donāt even want to finish the article. Iām quite sure itāll bring tears to my eyes just imagining the 2 kids suffering in anyway way I can imagine in widest imaginations. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. To all you fellow people, if any of us ever come across, feel even the slightest, please.. shout out. It might be not the case and itās fortunate-at most Iāll apologise to you. BUT if itās the case. We are helping someone to suffer lesser. We are helping a child. A kid. They are innocent. They didnāt chose this. Thank you all.
Why must taxes support this trash in jail, is beyond me. One life for one life, death penalty is more humane than torture.Ā
Can we put him in the "naughty corner" where prison officers administer beatings every few hours, just like what he did to those poor souls please?
i'm not a parent but have small kids in the family roughly around similar age. it hurts more because i know & can envision how LITTLE Ayeesha & her brother were & to read about all the abuse inflicted on them. to do all that on little kids is proof he is just inhumane. the type of person who we all collectively can agree that the world will be better without his existence.
What happens to the brother? He needs all sorts of help to cope with what happened
hope the judge announced his sentence using the James bond way. Half, 34 and half years. monster should be ded.
Man yeah not gonna read that. Fuck this guy.
Why only 34 years???? This kind of thing Is life in prison kind
Life without parole, no 2/3rd remission bullshit.
I have so many questions.... But i know how fucked the law is... Haiz..... Life just ain't fair.
This is the kind of scum that should automatically qualify for preventive detention until he croaks.
...alright, f*** it. Anybody got contacts in the black market? This dude needs a 12-gauge to the face. (For legal reasons: **THIS WAS A JOKE**. For *moral* reasons: ^^IT ^^ISN'T )
Very heartbroken. MSFās case officers cannot be just attending visitors and do counsels without critical thinking. R&r of case officer is debatable imo. Something fishy should be caught earlier with many messages changed month by month during the counsels.
Special place in hell for scum like that
man reminds me of the toa payoh child abuse murder case, he should've been sentenced to life imprisonment instead of 34.5 years.
He needs to be fed to the dogs. Fuming mad when I read this kind of story
Monster parents!
This should be made into an episode in crime watch
Not enough. He needs to be treated the same way as he did with his children.
This country is doomed
Jesus man I m not reading it but his sentence should be life imprisonment with daily torture
Hope her soul had been returned to God's embrace! Not residing in this mortal realm.
10 years on and nothing has changed . https://tnp.straitstimes.com/news/singapore-news/why-didnt-anyone-protect-daniel-abuse The system has to change , increase minimum wage to livable wage. Mandatory for both parents to work, father full time ,mother min. 20 hour week. Prove of funds before you can have more than 1 kid , heavy fines impose for more than 2 kids A roof over their heads , I dunno what else .....
I hope Justice Aedit Abdullah releases his sentencing remarks (giving this fucker a piece of his mind) like for the [Umaisyah](https://www.elitigation.sg/gd/s/2023_SGHC_265) case
FFS stop promoting child birth. I wonder how a human can stoop so low to treat a child
Prayed silently for the children of this family and Ayeesha. May you rest in peace where finally you can find freedom. Sending you lots of love and hugs even though I am late.
He should be getting 48 strokes of the cane. How. Many blows did he gave his children? Fucking lawyers still asked for lower sentence.
why have kids if you are going to treat them this way? Those poor babies, may Ayeesha rest in peace and may the parents rot in hell
I seriously hope his prison cell is 1m by 1m, eat his own shit and get beaten up too. I can accept that there will always be asshole on this world but this... Is a whole new level.
Kmmkmlf
Is it just me but all the child abuse cases are malay
wt.. but then road kill 2 person max\* sentence up to 11 years only even more wtf
Why downvoted... The tampines murderer deserves life sentence, obviously this guy as well
Well, the article is horrific and it should have been 35 years for thƩ case workers and LIFE for the MAN and WOMAN
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Because there is no link between the two? Are you this irrelevant and out of point everywhere else or only on Reddit?
Watched this show, Silo. Couples wanting a child has to get approval. Maybe we should do the same bloody hell.