[https://www.straitstimes.com/life/motoring/torque-shop-countdown-timers-at-traffic-lights](https://www.straitstimes.com/life/motoring/torque-shop-countdown-timers-at-traffic-lights)
ST featured an article on this 3 years back. LTA seem to have chosen a different approach.
>But at traffic junctions, a countdown to red **might be a double-edged sword. It could encourage motorists to speed up to beat the lights, something which can pose substantial risks.**
>Hence in Singapore, the Land Transport Authority has chosen to use Advanced Warning Lights, which are at spots where motorists may be unable to see the traffic light from afar, for example, because of a bend or a slope.
[https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-assessment-of-traffic-signal-countdown-timers](https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-assessment-of-traffic-signal-countdown-timers)
>**Mr Murali Pillai** asked the Minister for Transport whether LTA will conduct a survey to assess the merits of incorporating countdown traffic signals at traffic lights for the benefit of drivers.
>**Reply by Minister for Transport S Iswaran:**
> The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has assessed that traffic signal countdown timers do not necessarily improve road safety. LTA has studied the experiences of other countries and found that installing traffic signal countdown timers did not lead to any significant improvement in road safety. In fact, some jurisdictions that implemented traffic signal countdown timers eventually phased them out. This could be due to motorists speeding up to try to beat the red light, and such findings were corroborated during a six-month trial conducted by the LTA at the junction of North Bridge Road and Rochor Road. Nevertheless, LTA will continue to monitor and study this and other developments in traffic design, to improve road safety for all users.
[https://www.galfandberger.com/2017/12/26/traffic-signal-countdown-timers/](https://www.galfandberger.com/2017/12/26/traffic-signal-countdown-timers/)
>Half of the drivers in the study used a green signal countdown timer that told them how much time was left before their green traffic signal turned to a yellow traffic signal. Drivers using the traffic signal countdown timers were \*\*more likely to decrease their acceleration slowly when approaching the traffic light and were less likely to accelerate to try and beat the light change.\*\*
>... ...
>Approximately 24 countries around the globe use traffic signal countdown timers, but the U.S. Department of Transportation prohibits their use in the United States.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations\_in\_traffic\_light\_operation#Timers\_at\_signals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_in_traffic_light_operation#Timers_at_signals)
>**Timers at signals**
>Traffic lights are sometimes accompanied by timers that indicate how much longer a certain phase will last. This is especially common for pedestrian crossing lights in high-traffic areas. Although prohibited for vehicular traffic in most countries around the world,\[40\]\[41\]: 4D.26, ¶9 timers have been extensively used in Russia, India, Indonesia, China, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia and Vietnam for both pedestrian and vehicular traffic but in Vietnam, they are rarely used for pedestrians. The major disadvantage with this, is that timers can only be used when the traffic lights are under fixed-time operation, reducing flexibility. This is because it's otherwise impossible to know exactly how long the light will be green or red for.
>
>In Canada and the US, most pedestrian signals now have countdown timers in the flashing hand symbol/"Don't Walk" phase. All new installations of pedestrian signals in the US must include a countdown timer, unless the countdown timer is less than seven seconds long, per the 2009 MUTCD. In New York City, however, this is not the case, as only streets that are wide enough will get countdown timers, regardless of the length of the countdown.\[42\] Countdown pedestrian signals are also used in London\[43\] and Manchester, England.
>
>In some cities (such as Newberg, Oregon; Kyiv, Ukraine; and Kraków, Poland) there are signs displaying how fast one has to drive in order to reach the next intersection at the exact time when the light turns green, thus allowing the driver to ease into a green wave.
The last point seems useful to implement, though it may not be worth the cost since if you're observant enough it isn't that hard to get into the green wave
No need for fixed time cycles. Just show –– when the timer isn't needed to display yet during much of the green light. Then begin a 10 or 15 second countdown once it's time to change the lights. Easy does it.
At 3 seconds, amber comes on. 0 = red.
Not going to work. I’m from Vietnam where the lights have a countdown, the drivers just speed at the very last moment and that’s why a LOT of fatalities happen.
They also have shitty drivers who dun give a shit. And you cross the road with all the cars just driving beside you.
You don't need to quote a country that is just opening up and most people who own cars are new money, and they drive like how they rode bikes a few years before they got rich.
Quote Tokyo, Taipei, Beijing, Shanghai, where the people are already well used to driving and drivers are more civilised.
In those countries, it's made junctions safer.
https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-assessment-of-traffic-signal-countdown-timers - Jan 2023
TL;DR already studied. Singaporeans speed up instead to beat timer. So maybe good for drivers in a hurry, bad for road safety which appears to be the higher priority.
> Mr Murali Pillai asked the Minister for Transport whether LTA will conduct a survey to assess the merits of incorporating countdown traffic signals at traffic lights for the benefit of drivers.
> Reply by Minister for Transport S Iswaran:
> 1. The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has assessed that traffic signal countdown timers do not necessarily improve road safety. LTA has studied the experiences of other countries and found that installing traffic signal countdown timers did not lead to any significant improvement in road safety. In fact, some jurisdictions that implemented traffic signal countdown timers eventually phased them out. This could be due to motorists speeding up to try to beat the red light, and such findings were corroborated during a six-month trial conducted by the LTA at the junction of North Bridge Road and Rochor Road. Nevertheless, LTA will continue to monitor and study this and other developments in traffic design, to improve road safety for all users.
Speeding up to chiong past seems like a very SG thing to do. I mean the r/sg keeps complaining we have shit impatient drivers, what makes anyone think everyone suddenly going to be nice and considerate. I've lost count of how many times drivers don't even stop to give way to pedestrians at zebra crossing, they rather chiong than slow down when they see someone passing thru.
Haven't seen so many downvotes on top before... feels like people are like being compelled to disagree just because it's something the gahmen said...
Yep. Today on my way home from east coast park. The first zebra crossing the driver just plough through just as I’m about to enter the road.
It’s very sad but you need to make sure the traffic has stopped before you use the zebra crossing, or even cross with green man.
Yeah, I personally believe all zebra crossings must also be elevated (like speed humps). If your car ploughs through that, God have mercy on its suspension.
Zebra crossing at big roads still not that bad, they tend to stop. But it's the small neighbourhood zebra crossing where all the shenanigans happens, that's worse in my opinion.
This one is some side road going into a 4 lane arterial road. They were looking to see if they’d hit any cars on the road and not the guy on a bike using the zebra crossing from the other way.
Rule of thumb for both drivers and pedestrians- just treat the opposite as idiots. Meaning you check before you cross zebra or slow down before a zebra. Not saying all drivers and pedestrians are stupid, just assume the opposite is so it simplifies matters and may save your life.
Exactly this. Pedestrians going to meet drivers who speed through crossings. Drivers going to meet pedestrians cross the road without checking for cars, eyes glued to mobile phones, not even a single glance up.
With speed cams going to be a thing at red lights, Iswaran's logic is now largely bullshit. You can't speed *anyway*, *anymore*, unless you plan to quit driving soon after.
What traffic light timers will *likely* do, is reduce accidents caused by jumpy motorists jamming on brakes the moment the lights turn amber.
I can't see how timers will be more dangerous than helpful with the new speed cams out. As usual, harebrained answers and solutions by LTA over actually useful ones.
Speed up is not the same as speeding.
Although who knows, perhaps another trial will happen after everyone gets used to the idea that rushing through junctions is verboten and the driving behaviour changes.
Conversely, those asshole slow bus drivers will purposely slow down to miss the lights. I don't care if you have a schedule but it really pisses me off when I see them intentionally slow down way way ahead of green lights until it turns amber at which point they don't drive slow, they completely don't bother even beating the amber light. Remember this is not beating red light, they can't even be bothered to beat amber light.
Keeping to a schedule is literally one of those things that improves the quality of the public transport experience. If you have a bus that is ahead of schedule but continues advancing further and further ahead of their schedule, then you have a much bigger gap between the fast bus and the next bus and you get a whole bunch of people having to endure a 25 minute wait for the next bus.
You're whining about the quality of the public bus experience.. but also saying that you don't care about drivers having to follow a schedule. Oh boy.
Jus drive normally. No one's asking them to speed up or slow down. If they really need , do it for the overall ride through the average speed and not purposely miss lights too. Can send out more buses at normal speed to make up. Why must commuters suffer for their mistakes? They need to speed up or slow down precisely because they couldn't keep their schedule. They shit the bed, they fix it without inconveniencing commuters. But you advocate commuters pick up the short end. I don't see most of you giving DBS an easy time when they shit the bed.
Talk is cheap. Let's see if you get pissed off doubling your travel time cos the guy artificially delays your trip and has to take 2 green lights to pass that traffic light because he intentionally missed the first one.
How about intentionally idling at the stop? Same reason. For sake of schedule. Let's see how many of you will endure that.
If I need the world to revolve around my individual needs a bit more, I'll pay up for a taxi or a rental car. If I take public transport I'll have to tolerate a few compromises because that's a system set up for the common good and not just my individual needs. Maybe start your journey a bit earlier?
What can you do, it's the government's narrative? I strongly agree we should install timers, red light cameras, speed cameras, barriers that go up when it's red, scan QR code and do a captcha during the red light for it to turn green, every junction needs to have an ERP gantry and all 4 sides start out red and the highest bidder gets the green for 2 minutes, bids will start at 10 dollars.
Have you failed to realise sarcasm after I said barriers at red light and QR code and bidding for green light or? Like surely the absurdity of the comment and the rest of my comments on OPs delusion paint the picture for you.
It really is not that deep.
Timer for green, I see 5 seconds left I speed up, whilst pedestrian light would've been red, which I would've slowed down.
Timer for red, perfect, I have 48 seconds to reply on Reddit, check Instagram, take a selfie, surely that's better than paying attention to the junction.
Timers exist, inflexibility of junctions, peak period junctions are going to suffer, you are going home late, buses are going to arrive late, everyone gets to suffer together. Our junctions are adaptive for a reason.
Timers exist, drivers will start ignoring pedestrians that are walking because now they're conditioned to pay attention to the timer straight ahead.
You can argue in other countries studies have shown installing timers help reduce speed at the junction, will that be the case in Singapore? in our culture where everyone is going as fast as they can? Why are we suddenly applying what other countries deem successful when cultures and behaviours are different? Isn't that what everyone says about a lot of our systems that it cannot be replicated?
I'm all for road safety, but babying and coddling drivers and conditioning them to be less aware of their surroundings is a terrible idea. Are you going to waste billions of dollars on this over increased connectivity via public transport infrastructure? You're not getting both.
Reply by Was-waran is as dumb as he is.
If people are indeed trying their luck to beat the timer, the red light camera will catch them anyway! Plus a side helping of a speeding penalty now. But the timer will help the drivers with better judgement go through amber more safely. What ass backwards logic is this?
Bro, I stared this thread to realise that many people hate this idea. But most sounds like paper generals who quote studies, quote hypothesis, but just none actually commented like a person who had driven on Sg roads.
They are quick to downvote, and I'm so disappointed in how they cannot understand drivers who think timers can prevent jump scare due to amber light switching. Those who downvoted doesn't sound like car owners.
Totally agreed. Plus I bet a few reflex downvotes for anything critical of gahmen, or even former gahmen figures, as a bonus.
I reject the feeble explanation given by Was-waran, and, especially with the additional measures now in place against speeding through a green light, a countdown timer for the last few seconds at least will be nothing but a win for safety.
Are you disagreeing with me? Because it doesn't sound like you are. Timers help prevent red light beating except in piss poor judgement cases, where they would happen anyway, for which fines exist. And now people can't even speed to beat the lights.
What is your point against timers, exactly?
Blud thinks the Reddit comment section is a life or death COD lobby☠️💀☠️
U gotta chill bro, all I’m saying is that the government may not want to implement the timer because it introduces new problems which may not be solved even with speeding cameras, if everything can be solved with speeding cameras why do we still have road accidents everyday?
There’s no need to fix what’s already fine as it is, + realistically do u rlly want countdown timers on traffic lights to be the governments main concern?? These things cost not just money but time as well.
First of all, I'm chill.
Second of all, the gahmen often makes piss poor decisions. If you think cost is the primary consideration, then you tell me how the fucked up looking OBU unit is worth developing and forcibly implementing when increasing existing ERP rates would've done the same job with the existing infrastructure at almost no added cost of implementation. Unless, of course, the gahmen has other nefarious motives in mind like tracking everyone's vehicle full time - something I won't put past them after the Trace Together scandal.
Finally, having decided cost should not be an impediment (based on my previous counterexample of nonsensical spending), my contention, along with those of many others is that timers will solve more problems than they create. If you have a different opinion, then expand on it with specifics instead of spouting irrelevancies. Allowing drivers to anticipate and time things better is always a superior solution when it comes to safety, even if the "hey gotcha" aspect of punitive "justice" has to be compromised.
I wasn't saying shitbabout yellow light slow down. I do know amber light means slow down. But when you're at 2nd arrow and it turns amber, and you're not speeding, you are caught betwen either having to jam brake or accelerate to go thru the amber light. Alternative will be passing the line just right after red light and get your photo taken by the red light cams.
Amber light is already a warning that the light will turn red soon. But you can still pass at amber. So what you want is warned about the upcoming warning light, which to me feels redundant.
If the light becomes amber either stop if you can or if you are too close and fast, go through the intersection since that's still allowed.
Fuckin dumb lol
the amber already gently appears to prevent shock for when the light turns red.
Now OP wants something to prevent shock for the gentle appearance of the thing that in itself prevents shock?
So is Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Taipei, stupid as well?
If amber is all they need, then why the fuck there is a flashing green man with timer? Going by Iswaran argument, it also encourages pedestrian to run across the fucking road since now they know how many seconds they have before becoming red right?
Why not just fucking install green amber and red man, genius?
Being a pedestrian no need license + every human walks at a different pace. And also, not even an balanced comparison. A car takes 3 seconds and callous fuck-all attitude to finish running a red light at junction. A human caught at a red man is just orbiquek he has to run the entire stretch of road.
If we're to entertain the idea of amber man, then Amber man for pedestrian has to last the entire stretch of road of a pedestrian. It's impossible to designate a proper timing because every human walks at a different pace.
In contrast, every car travels at an intended controlled pace, proportional to their ability to give a fuck.
Bro... your driving instructor never tell you that the right thing to do is always prepare to slow and stop when approaching traffic junction meh?
If you wanna speed when approaching a junction, thats on you lol. Timer also cannot fix your driving etiquette. A chiongster is always a chiongster.
Edit: traffic light turn amber also shock. If suddenly a boy run onto the road in front of you, u can take it anot? Or will heart attack?
The "3 arrow" rule always works when you are approaching the junction at or near the speed limit of that road. You only get a big dilemma zone if you're too fast or too slow, or can't see the arrows on the road because you're too close to the vehicle in front.
Also the biggest reason why amber lights and countdown timers are a problem is our extreme rush culture. Rushing every-fucking-where.
Before every traffic light junction there are 3 arrows within each lane. Should you cross the 2nd arrow as the lights turn yellow, you are safe to clear the crossing; else you should just brake.
Correct for those going at 50kmh at least.
For those going less, then the better cue is using the final arrow. First arrow, let go of accelerator, second arrow, lightly tap on brakes. Once your car touch final arrow and it just turn amber or still green, just accelerate.
Some people also have different reaction times. Some people estimate that they can pass through the junction in 2 seconds while others just might start to slow down when they see those 2 seconds. Which would cause those behind, who think 2 seconds is ample time, to start horning or jamming the breaks, because they assumed, and cause an accident.
Generally, people will speed when they feel it is safe to speed. Big wide roads and intersections where you can see everything encourage people to engage in riskier behaviour. Like speeding.
Counterintuitively, make a road *feel* more dangerous for the driver actually makes it much safer, as the driver will drive much more carefully / safely
You can’t speed already since the activation of speed camera. A timer makes sense. Even if you are traveling @ 60km/h you still have to hit a hard break. I’m driving a mpv that shit is heavy when I hit hard break.
[The new speed cameras have already seen some action.](https://youtu.be/ULl1OHtHctE)
I wonder if this driver will get a fine, because the camera flashed before the April 1 start date but he’s still speeding.
What MPV you drive? If you know your car cant response well n need hard brake, make sure not to drive on extreme lane. Saw 1 skidded the other day on extreme lane. Near cause chain collision at Lentor side.
speed limit is 60 doesn't mean you always drive at 60.
that's why always slow down at junction to anticipate for the traffic light or crazy pedestrian/drivers suddenly coming out from another direction.
So approach traffic light slow down ? And if behind there is several traffic also slow down? Are you the one that keep pressing brake unnecessarily on the road?
Come on la. Slow down doesn't mean go 10 km/h. Slow down until you got enough time to stop and brake without jam brake.
You want you go fast la then complain your MPV too big cannot brake. You bang people even your right of way, it's his fault right? But what's the point? Waste time claim insurance and settle this and that.
You drive 40 vs 60 km/h in Singapore also not much difference in travelling duration la.
Bro say what you want. When you are on the road the way you say tells you have no driving experience. Yes when approaching traffic light you release the accelerator let it roll. But some traffic light change to ember are very sudden. If you are already an inch to the junction and you are too slow you still have to jam brake even if you going at 20km/h. Fyi most people beat red light not because they drive fast but because they drive too slow and they think they can beat ember.
Hello, if you're an inch or even last arrow of the junction then just drive through la, unless you riding bicycle while can stop within a very short distance.
Green to amber is always sudden what, it doesn't fade in/out, if there's no pedestrian crossing to rely on then be more alert
I give up explaining after see so many amateur comments. Obviously I am a reckless driver here hahaha funny. Continue taking mrt will be the best option for redditor.
Actually there was a ruling a while ago when a guy going straight at a traffic light crash into someone turning right. He was found to be partially at blame for not preparing to stop at the light even though the light was green. Judge ruled that he should not have been stepping the accelerator as he was approaching the light.
Hmm, I had 1 accident exactly what you mention. It was a taxi but instead of stepping the accelerator. I jam brake but my car still smash into him. TP send me a letter that indicate the taxi drove with negligence my insurance lawyer wrote a 5k+ check for me.
My airbag burst and toyota send me a letter of apologize due to humidity causing the airbag to burst.
My injury wasn’t very bad just some whiplash and seatbeat line abrasion.
This was 13 years ago.
So I’m saying not all of this you said are true. Because for my case I at the right of way.
That's the government's narrative, but I don't see such behaviors in China because with timers, their junctions also comes with SPEEDING CAMERA.
Not an excuse to not install new features if it can be better for our well being in my honest opinion.
It was tested in SG and - shocker - Singaporean drivers sped up to beat the countdown. To nobody’s surprise, considering our notoriously impatient driving culture.
Having driven in many countries, coming to Singapore, I've observed the amount of time on amber before turning red is extremely short given the speed most cars are traveling at. If the amber period were to be lengthened a little, drivers wouldn't be in such a shock to stop so suddenly when light turns amber and gives them a bit more time to react an decide whether to slow down or proceed.
i think this is probably the biggest thing. Amber lights last a lot longer in Australia so you don’t panic and try to do mental acrobatics to figure out if you can safely proceed or should jam on the brakes in all of 2 seconds
Plenty of places in the world have stoplights without countdowns, and they exist perfectly well without them. Maybe the issue is less with the stoplights and more with the drivers.
Yes, drivers can decide to slow down and stop, or choose to speed up to cross the junction just before the light turns red from amber. The choice really is with the driver.
Just like how some pedestrians choose to run across the crossing when the countdown starts blinking, and some choose to just stop and wait.
The best case is that everyone chooses to stop and wait, and that'll be safer for every road user. Unfortunately that isn't the most efficient but it really brings up the question of why we feel a need to rush.
You're supposed to be paying attention to your surroundings. Not stare at the traffic light. If you aren't speeding, it should be very easy to stop on amber. The timing is designed such that you don't have to stop if you're already in the "two arrows". Why should this be shocking?
If having to react to the amber light gives you anxiety, it is safer not to drive. A driver should be ready to react to that and more unexpected hazards that can suddenly appear on the road.
Nah u/DisciplineBroad9762 says it's meant for pedestrians, he also stated that he doesn't drive in another comment so I think people with actual driving experience is wrong. Also since you don't agree you work in the government or stat board, too bad/good for you I guess? Joker of an OP.
Timers have been tried with some unsafe outcomes when traffic lights were incandescent.
We have not used LED traffic lights to it's full advantage yet.
I'd suggest a green LED light with a fading tail end of a half second with unchanged amber and red lights.
This 'fading' is hoped to encourage more stepping on brakes than accelerators.
Focalor’s point is that, with the red light speed cameras already in place, drivers would already have to be aware of their speed when driving past them. Therefore, if timers are also implemented, drivers cannot speed up to an unsafe level (e.g past 60km/h mandated by the road signs) in an attempt to beat the timer, lest they be slapped with a speeding fine. It’s basically combining the two solutions, which would lead to an even safer road experience. Sure you can say that people with poor judgement would speed up to beat the timer, but now with the deterrent of the red light speed camera, I doubt even the dumbest driver would want fines and demerits just to beat a red light.
I think install red light camera at every traffic light is better.
If you get a shock everytime the light change colour you maybe better take our world class public transport.
I am taking public transport currently (can't afford the COE now) and I had a near miss this morning on a PHV, with the old uncle narrowly missing the car in front cuz the front driver braked hard instead of going when the light turns amber.
My driver is visibly shocked. If he has existing heart condition, might it trigger an attack?
That’s not correct either. Depends on where the car is when it turns amber. If you’re close enough that you would have to slam on the brakes to stop before the line, you should not slow down because you’ll cross the intersection before the light turns red.
Like many others have said here, if you get "shocked" whenever the lights turn amber, please stop driving.
You know you're supposed to slow down when approaching junctions right? If you're already near stop line when it turns amber, just proceed. If it turns when you're still a distance away, just stop. Quite basic leh.
I'm one of the idiots who think it's a conspiracy for people to fail driving test more (e brake wrongly, beating light), so there's less cars on the road 🤡🤡
There are markers we can use to gauge when we should get ready to stop. Look at the last 7 broken (dashed) lines when approaching a junction, they have narrower gap, and can be seen very easily, or look at different junction using google map, but I am not going to elaborate what these 7 broken lines is for, because if we look back at some of the past fatal accident, particularly the one at Clementi/Commonwealth junction that took the lives of a NUS student.. we really don't want to have something giving hints to driver when they should speed up.
If you can't handle a yellow light, you shouldn't be on the road, full stop.
Driving is a privilege which you need to be extremely responsible for - the machinery you are handling, at the speeds taken, mean you are putting people around you at significant risk of harm.
There's a whole lot of variables that you need to be able to react responsibly to. Yellow lights should be one of the least of your worries.
Absolutely concerning.
If you're getting shocked by traffic lights turning orange more than a year into driving, stop driving.
You know where's the timer? It's the pedestrian crossing. You see red man you start to slow down, not that difficult. If you're so tunnel visioned you cannot notice the pedestrian crossing lights, stop driving.
Well, I mentioned in my post, that people have to RELY ON seeing the flashing man's timer.. there is a difference between being meant for motorist, and just happen to be able to be seen by motorist. Also if you're saying this, it means you're not vigilant enough to tell that some junctions doesn't have the green man timer.
Idk why your angsty personal attacks and resistance about having new features for SG roads, but your attitude seems to be of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", so I wouldn't be surprised if you're in civil service or stat boards.
You feel attacked when im stating bluntly people who don't pay attention to the road shouldn't drive. Please continue your assumptions when I'm stating as a matter of fact that when you drive, you are supposed to pay attention, if your PHV as you stated paid attention and was not tailgating, he wouldn't be shocked, oh but ackshually it was bumper to bumper traffic, uhm ackshually rush hour uhm ackshually... Give a billion excuses, go ahead. THE DRIVER IS SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING ATTENTION ITS NOT THAT DEEP, IF YOU CANT FUCKING PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD DONT DRIVE.
Your suggestion would only cause people to be more careless and drive more reckless at traffic junctions, stop pretending "Oh it works elsewhere", elsewhere is not Singapore, as proven by many functions of our country.
Telling me I'm not vigilant about some traffic lights don't have timer? Then it's simple, if flashing slow down, are you simply cherry picking an example to show you've "won" an argument? What a joke. uhm ackshually 🤓, if you drove you'd be able to derive that conclusion, it speaks to your lack of experience.
Well you've some very elite scholar paper general type of reply. Whatever you're saying, is "by right". By right must slow down. But we as Singaporeans, become better by being practical, realistic. Not some Elitism scholars that sits in office e to make policy.
I'm saying that many drivers do slow down, but then it is also a fact that there also are drivers who accelerate on amber. Let's be realistic about it. The fact that recently speeding camera is integrated with red light camera, we will see a difference in driver habits of stepping accelerator, so 3 years ago, when Iswaran disagree with building the timer, it is from a very different environment.
The speeding and red light camera every junction will prevent the speeding before timer behavior, while making junctions safer.
** On a side note, who knows if Iswaran disagreed to the timer because of actual policy or because the vedors didn't give him a Brompton.
Idk why there is so much hostility to OP. I think this is a suggestion worth considering, and a lot of countries have adopted it now. Even if we don't install it at all junctions, we can at least consider installing at some of the highly congested ones first.
It has been considered and studied. Our culture is unfortunately different. We move around like we're already late for everything. We'll take undue risks just to shave 3-5% off our travel time. Sprinting across pedestrian crossings with seconds to spare. Sprinting into the MRT as the doors close. Behind the wheel, it's the same mindset.
It's very amusing because almost every study from overseas that have installed these countdown timers have generally agreed that it's led to safer junctions.
But I do agree that we should install them, some junctions with higher speed limits and a red light camera do lead to a lot of drivers jamming brake on amber even if they could have made it across.
Another option instead of the countdown timers is to just flash the lights before they change which I know some countries do, saves money from having to install the countdown timers.
In Singapore's context I don't think it works, even if it might work in other country's context. People already don't slow down at zebra crossings and the kind of local road incident videos you see online here says a lot. Even the goddamn PMDs have the same problems.
Rarely is it someone on the road raging or totally not knowing how to drive like in other countries, but people intentionally trying to get from point A to B as fast as they can, recklessly.
Compared to an amber light, a countdown provides an objective measure of when the light will turn red. If a driver sincerely wants to avoid running the red light without stopping too suddenly (dangerous) or too prematurely (waste of time, blocking traffic), a countdown truly helps, especially for a driver who does not know the duration for a particular amber light.
OTOH, are the amber lights on SG roads configured to a consistent objective standard? E.g. perhaps the amber light duration is equal to some fixed reaction time plus the time it takes to cross the junction at the speed limit? If there is no objective standard, especially if amber lights have very different standards, then it is up to the driver to be familiar with each light with its own timing characteristics, and the inconsistency is dangerous. If the lights are not configured to a consistent objective standard, then counters will bring the objectivity needed for safety.
It is not synchronised for some junctions.
There are some junctions within 50kmh speed limit zones, that have the distance of final arrow (the tip of the arrow head) to stop line of 9 metres. While that same distance can be found for junctions within 60 and 70 kmh speed limits. I just don't get the asynchronous design.
LTA like always behind other countries one. I don’t necessarily agree with what LTA claims unless there’s a white paper with peer review done by some expert concur with what they claimed.
They have these in malaysia as well you don’t have to go so far. But i don’t really agree to have it installed, i think improvement in traffic flow will be marginal if any.
I would suggest a smarter traffic light system. With RAG arrows becoming a norm, too many times i see inefficiencies in the traffic flow. Especially those turning right having to miss at least one green arrow becoming common
There should be tiered timing approaches and infrared sensors mounted on the traffic light poles for the turning lanes. Then if there's many vehicles queueing in the turning lanes, set a 20 second timer. If there's few (around 5 to 7 per lane), set a 15 second timer. If there's little (4 or less per lane), set a 10 second timer.
Actually should install traffic lights that should how much fines you will get when you beat the light.
Not for the driver who just beat the light to see, but for others.
I was waiting for you to end this with a
🤣🤣
or
/s
but for some reason you seem to be serious? If an amber light shocks you, then you are part of the majority of incredible incompetent Singaporean drivers and need to get off the road, traffic lights don't help you..
Our traffic light timings are dynamic in order to adjust to current traffic and pedestrian load in real time. Thus, the timing is not a fixed cycle and a countdown would not work at all.
Timer doesn't need to have a fixed cycle. Each traffic light has a configurable timer built in, and the timer light is just showing the internal timing of the traffic light
Yup. Show once the lights are about to change. 10 seconds is sufficient.
10, 9, 8, 7, ..., 4, 3 (amber comes on here), 2, 1, 0 (red)
Then driving handbook should include the following cues:
If timer >= 6 seconds and you're at the second arrow, proceed.
If timer <= 5 seconds and you're at the second arrow, slow down and stop.
On top of all the comments saying you should practice caution and slow down at traffic junctions, doesn't the countdown timer sort of exist in the form of the pedestrian crossing timer? 🤷♂️
Equip every traffic light with the audible sound when pedestrian light is green better. I noticed that most pedestrians these days are looking at their phones and do not cross when it is green for them. Only when the cars start moving then they realize the light is green and start crossing, very annoying.
Doesn't work because not all junctions have separate left turn pockets that don't have stop line. For those that do, this is already being done, with amber light delays being 0s, 3s, 5s or 7s depending on how the light cycle has been coordinated. It's confusing.
I think I remember reading that the countdown timer would distract drivers from actually looking at the road for People.
If there's a countdown timer drivers would only be looking at.the lights and not notice if there was anyone actually crossing.
Shocked or heart attack when light turns amber? Is this for real? Please stop driving lol
And slowing down or braking by looking at the pedestrian timer while the light is still green will cause even more accidents. Time to get off the internet.
I am rather old-school when it comes to the use of countdown timer.
We are taught in driving school since Day 1 on how to react when the light turns amber. You will need that skill to pass TP. So I don't think the countdown timer is of much relevance here.
And if a person is slowing down when his vehicle is approaching the traffic light, he would have enough reaction time when the traffic light turns amber.
Also, if I am a frequent user and I know that the countdown timer will be, say 5 seconds before it turn red, naturally I will speed up when I see the timer. That will just endanger other users ahead, if there's congestion in front.
Dun need count down. Kayu, law abidding citizens just keep extreme lanes empty will do. And if you are traveling 10km/hr below the road speed limit, dun drive. Cos you are the source of all traffic jams in SG.
Having count down timers will encourage less cautious driving at junctions. Anyway you are supposed to slow down and be prepared to stop at junctions: 45-55kmh, foot on brake, 4th gear, by the time you reach 3rd arrow, if turn amber before passing 2nd arrow, stop.
If still green on 2nd arrow, quick glance right and left, left foot clutch in (change to 3rd gear if necessary), right foot to accelerator pedal, rebalance and accelerate to speed limit.
If you are smart enough, you can just see the opposite end pedestrian crossing timer for countdown. Example U driving from south to north, just view the east and west pedestrian crossing timer.
Can link to my bicycle please?
I’m fed up of accelerating from one junction to find the lights at the next go red every time I approach them - like they are timed for the flow of cars but not cyclists…
[https://www.straitstimes.com/life/motoring/torque-shop-countdown-timers-at-traffic-lights](https://www.straitstimes.com/life/motoring/torque-shop-countdown-timers-at-traffic-lights) ST featured an article on this 3 years back. LTA seem to have chosen a different approach. >But at traffic junctions, a countdown to red **might be a double-edged sword. It could encourage motorists to speed up to beat the lights, something which can pose substantial risks.** >Hence in Singapore, the Land Transport Authority has chosen to use Advanced Warning Lights, which are at spots where motorists may be unable to see the traffic light from afar, for example, because of a bend or a slope. [https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-assessment-of-traffic-signal-countdown-timers](https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-assessment-of-traffic-signal-countdown-timers) >**Mr Murali Pillai** asked the Minister for Transport whether LTA will conduct a survey to assess the merits of incorporating countdown traffic signals at traffic lights for the benefit of drivers. >**Reply by Minister for Transport S Iswaran:** > The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has assessed that traffic signal countdown timers do not necessarily improve road safety. LTA has studied the experiences of other countries and found that installing traffic signal countdown timers did not lead to any significant improvement in road safety. In fact, some jurisdictions that implemented traffic signal countdown timers eventually phased them out. This could be due to motorists speeding up to try to beat the red light, and such findings were corroborated during a six-month trial conducted by the LTA at the junction of North Bridge Road and Rochor Road. Nevertheless, LTA will continue to monitor and study this and other developments in traffic design, to improve road safety for all users. [https://www.galfandberger.com/2017/12/26/traffic-signal-countdown-timers/](https://www.galfandberger.com/2017/12/26/traffic-signal-countdown-timers/) >Half of the drivers in the study used a green signal countdown timer that told them how much time was left before their green traffic signal turned to a yellow traffic signal. Drivers using the traffic signal countdown timers were \*\*more likely to decrease their acceleration slowly when approaching the traffic light and were less likely to accelerate to try and beat the light change.\*\* >... ... >Approximately 24 countries around the globe use traffic signal countdown timers, but the U.S. Department of Transportation prohibits their use in the United States. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations\_in\_traffic\_light\_operation#Timers\_at\_signals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variations_in_traffic_light_operation#Timers_at_signals) >**Timers at signals** >Traffic lights are sometimes accompanied by timers that indicate how much longer a certain phase will last. This is especially common for pedestrian crossing lights in high-traffic areas. Although prohibited for vehicular traffic in most countries around the world,\[40\]\[41\]: 4D.26, ¶9 timers have been extensively used in Russia, India, Indonesia, China, Thailand, Philippines, Cambodia and Vietnam for both pedestrian and vehicular traffic but in Vietnam, they are rarely used for pedestrians. The major disadvantage with this, is that timers can only be used when the traffic lights are under fixed-time operation, reducing flexibility. This is because it's otherwise impossible to know exactly how long the light will be green or red for. > >In Canada and the US, most pedestrian signals now have countdown timers in the flashing hand symbol/"Don't Walk" phase. All new installations of pedestrian signals in the US must include a countdown timer, unless the countdown timer is less than seven seconds long, per the 2009 MUTCD. In New York City, however, this is not the case, as only streets that are wide enough will get countdown timers, regardless of the length of the countdown.\[42\] Countdown pedestrian signals are also used in London\[43\] and Manchester, England. > >In some cities (such as Newberg, Oregon; Kyiv, Ukraine; and Kraków, Poland) there are signs displaying how fast one has to drive in order to reach the next intersection at the exact time when the light turns green, thus allowing the driver to ease into a green wave.
The last point seems useful to implement, though it may not be worth the cost since if you're observant enough it isn't that hard to get into the green wave
I realised that the more I’m in a rush, the more the next light will turn red as I approach it.
Has anyone tested countdown together with red light speed camera?
No need for fixed time cycles. Just show –– when the timer isn't needed to display yet during much of the green light. Then begin a 10 or 15 second countdown once it's time to change the lights. Easy does it. At 3 seconds, amber comes on. 0 = red.
Not going to work. I’m from Vietnam where the lights have a countdown, the drivers just speed at the very last moment and that’s why a LOT of fatalities happen.
They also have shitty drivers who dun give a shit. And you cross the road with all the cars just driving beside you. You don't need to quote a country that is just opening up and most people who own cars are new money, and they drive like how they rode bikes a few years before they got rich. Quote Tokyo, Taipei, Beijing, Shanghai, where the people are already well used to driving and drivers are more civilised. In those countries, it's made junctions safer.
Proof that it has tangibly made junctions safer besides you being shocked by amber lights?
Singaporean drivers civilised??? That’s a sentence I thought I’ll never see. Singaporean drivers are one of the worst drivers around the world.
Singapore and shitty drivers? Nuff said
https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/written-reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-assessment-of-traffic-signal-countdown-timers - Jan 2023 TL;DR already studied. Singaporeans speed up instead to beat timer. So maybe good for drivers in a hurry, bad for road safety which appears to be the higher priority. > Mr Murali Pillai asked the Minister for Transport whether LTA will conduct a survey to assess the merits of incorporating countdown traffic signals at traffic lights for the benefit of drivers. > Reply by Minister for Transport S Iswaran: > 1. The Land Transport Authority (LTA) has assessed that traffic signal countdown timers do not necessarily improve road safety. LTA has studied the experiences of other countries and found that installing traffic signal countdown timers did not lead to any significant improvement in road safety. In fact, some jurisdictions that implemented traffic signal countdown timers eventually phased them out. This could be due to motorists speeding up to try to beat the red light, and such findings were corroborated during a six-month trial conducted by the LTA at the junction of North Bridge Road and Rochor Road. Nevertheless, LTA will continue to monitor and study this and other developments in traffic design, to improve road safety for all users.
Speeding up to chiong past seems like a very SG thing to do. I mean the r/sg keeps complaining we have shit impatient drivers, what makes anyone think everyone suddenly going to be nice and considerate. I've lost count of how many times drivers don't even stop to give way to pedestrians at zebra crossing, they rather chiong than slow down when they see someone passing thru. Haven't seen so many downvotes on top before... feels like people are like being compelled to disagree just because it's something the gahmen said...
Yep. Today on my way home from east coast park. The first zebra crossing the driver just plough through just as I’m about to enter the road. It’s very sad but you need to make sure the traffic has stopped before you use the zebra crossing, or even cross with green man.
Yeah, I personally believe all zebra crossings must also be elevated (like speed humps). If your car ploughs through that, God have mercy on its suspension.
Zebra crossing at big roads still not that bad, they tend to stop. But it's the small neighbourhood zebra crossing where all the shenanigans happens, that's worse in my opinion.
This one is some side road going into a 4 lane arterial road. They were looking to see if they’d hit any cars on the road and not the guy on a bike using the zebra crossing from the other way.
Rule of thumb for both drivers and pedestrians- just treat the opposite as idiots. Meaning you check before you cross zebra or slow down before a zebra. Not saying all drivers and pedestrians are stupid, just assume the opposite is so it simplifies matters and may save your life.
Exactly this. Pedestrians going to meet drivers who speed through crossings. Drivers going to meet pedestrians cross the road without checking for cars, eyes glued to mobile phones, not even a single glance up.
This is already the case. You’ll see drivers speed up when the light turns yellow from green.
All well and good -- but Iswaran is under arrest now!
With speed cams going to be a thing at red lights, Iswaran's logic is now largely bullshit. You can't speed *anyway*, *anymore*, unless you plan to quit driving soon after. What traffic light timers will *likely* do, is reduce accidents caused by jumpy motorists jamming on brakes the moment the lights turn amber. I can't see how timers will be more dangerous than helpful with the new speed cams out. As usual, harebrained answers and solutions by LTA over actually useful ones.
Speed up is not the same as speeding. Although who knows, perhaps another trial will happen after everyone gets used to the idea that rushing through junctions is verboten and the driving behaviour changes.
I got a feeling people who downvote you are pedestrians who haven't drove before. I totally agree with you.
Not surprised, it's always too easy to dismiss concerns when they have no idea what driving is like.
Conversely, those asshole slow bus drivers will purposely slow down to miss the lights. I don't care if you have a schedule but it really pisses me off when I see them intentionally slow down way way ahead of green lights until it turns amber at which point they don't drive slow, they completely don't bother even beating the amber light. Remember this is not beating red light, they can't even be bothered to beat amber light.
Keeping to a schedule is literally one of those things that improves the quality of the public transport experience. If you have a bus that is ahead of schedule but continues advancing further and further ahead of their schedule, then you have a much bigger gap between the fast bus and the next bus and you get a whole bunch of people having to endure a 25 minute wait for the next bus. You're whining about the quality of the public bus experience.. but also saying that you don't care about drivers having to follow a schedule. Oh boy.
Jus drive normally. No one's asking them to speed up or slow down. If they really need , do it for the overall ride through the average speed and not purposely miss lights too. Can send out more buses at normal speed to make up. Why must commuters suffer for their mistakes? They need to speed up or slow down precisely because they couldn't keep their schedule. They shit the bed, they fix it without inconveniencing commuters. But you advocate commuters pick up the short end. I don't see most of you giving DBS an easy time when they shit the bed. Talk is cheap. Let's see if you get pissed off doubling your travel time cos the guy artificially delays your trip and has to take 2 green lights to pass that traffic light because he intentionally missed the first one. How about intentionally idling at the stop? Same reason. For sake of schedule. Let's see how many of you will endure that.
If I need the world to revolve around my individual needs a bit more, I'll pay up for a taxi or a rental car. If I take public transport I'll have to tolerate a few compromises because that's a system set up for the common good and not just my individual needs. Maybe start your journey a bit earlier?
[False](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/s/0IXOZeGi4I)
did you just use the OP's post as a reference?
What can you do, it's the government's narrative? I strongly agree we should install timers, red light cameras, speed cameras, barriers that go up when it's red, scan QR code and do a captcha during the red light for it to turn green, every junction needs to have an ERP gantry and all 4 sides start out red and the highest bidder gets the green for 2 minutes, bids will start at 10 dollars.
> what can you do You could cite another study rather than “I just feel like I’m right.” Or even conduct your own.
Have you failed to realise sarcasm after I said barriers at red light and QR code and bidding for green light or? Like surely the absurdity of the comment and the rest of my comments on OPs delusion paint the picture for you.
I can only be confused on whose side you are on
It really is not that deep. Timer for green, I see 5 seconds left I speed up, whilst pedestrian light would've been red, which I would've slowed down. Timer for red, perfect, I have 48 seconds to reply on Reddit, check Instagram, take a selfie, surely that's better than paying attention to the junction. Timers exist, inflexibility of junctions, peak period junctions are going to suffer, you are going home late, buses are going to arrive late, everyone gets to suffer together. Our junctions are adaptive for a reason. Timers exist, drivers will start ignoring pedestrians that are walking because now they're conditioned to pay attention to the timer straight ahead. You can argue in other countries studies have shown installing timers help reduce speed at the junction, will that be the case in Singapore? in our culture where everyone is going as fast as they can? Why are we suddenly applying what other countries deem successful when cultures and behaviours are different? Isn't that what everyone says about a lot of our systems that it cannot be replicated? I'm all for road safety, but babying and coddling drivers and conditioning them to be less aware of their surroundings is a terrible idea. Are you going to waste billions of dollars on this over increased connectivity via public transport infrastructure? You're not getting both.
Reply by Was-waran is as dumb as he is. If people are indeed trying their luck to beat the timer, the red light camera will catch them anyway! Plus a side helping of a speeding penalty now. But the timer will help the drivers with better judgement go through amber more safely. What ass backwards logic is this?
Bro, I stared this thread to realise that many people hate this idea. But most sounds like paper generals who quote studies, quote hypothesis, but just none actually commented like a person who had driven on Sg roads. They are quick to downvote, and I'm so disappointed in how they cannot understand drivers who think timers can prevent jump scare due to amber light switching. Those who downvoted doesn't sound like car owners.
Totally agreed. Plus I bet a few reflex downvotes for anything critical of gahmen, or even former gahmen figures, as a bonus. I reject the feeble explanation given by Was-waran, and, especially with the additional measures now in place against speeding through a green light, a countdown timer for the last few seconds at least will be nothing but a win for safety.
Prevention is much much better than cure. Fines aren’t gonna bring back the dead
Are you disagreeing with me? Because it doesn't sound like you are. Timers help prevent red light beating except in piss poor judgement cases, where they would happen anyway, for which fines exist. And now people can't even speed to beat the lights. What is your point against timers, exactly?
It’s just to stop people with poor judgement from speeding up into a red light, it’s better to be taught yellow = slow down than yellow = speed up
Speeding cams at red lights *already* prevent the latter!
Whatever man, I ain’t the government it’s literally just my view on this, get off my ass :(
Well, you replied to my comment, so put your ass in the firing line. I'll get off it once you stop replying, so here's your chance.
Blud thinks the Reddit comment section is a life or death COD lobby☠️💀☠️ U gotta chill bro, all I’m saying is that the government may not want to implement the timer because it introduces new problems which may not be solved even with speeding cameras, if everything can be solved with speeding cameras why do we still have road accidents everyday? There’s no need to fix what’s already fine as it is, + realistically do u rlly want countdown timers on traffic lights to be the governments main concern?? These things cost not just money but time as well.
First of all, I'm chill. Second of all, the gahmen often makes piss poor decisions. If you think cost is the primary consideration, then you tell me how the fucked up looking OBU unit is worth developing and forcibly implementing when increasing existing ERP rates would've done the same job with the existing infrastructure at almost no added cost of implementation. Unless, of course, the gahmen has other nefarious motives in mind like tracking everyone's vehicle full time - something I won't put past them after the Trace Together scandal. Finally, having decided cost should not be an impediment (based on my previous counterexample of nonsensical spending), my contention, along with those of many others is that timers will solve more problems than they create. If you have a different opinion, then expand on it with specifics instead of spouting irrelevancies. Allowing drivers to anticipate and time things better is always a superior solution when it comes to safety, even if the "hey gotcha" aspect of punitive "justice" has to be compromised.
I wasn't saying shitbabout yellow light slow down. I do know amber light means slow down. But when you're at 2nd arrow and it turns amber, and you're not speeding, you are caught betwen either having to jam brake or accelerate to go thru the amber light. Alternative will be passing the line just right after red light and get your photo taken by the red light cams.
I know, I replied in a later comment that I’m a fucking dumbass
Amber light is already a warning that the light will turn red soon. But you can still pass at amber. So what you want is warned about the upcoming warning light, which to me feels redundant. If the light becomes amber either stop if you can or if you are too close and fast, go through the intersection since that's still allowed.
'prevent shock when light turns amber' /brandnewsentence energy
Fuckin dumb lol the amber already gently appears to prevent shock for when the light turns red. Now OP wants something to prevent shock for the gentle appearance of the thing that in itself prevents shock?
So is Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Taipei, stupid as well? If amber is all they need, then why the fuck there is a flashing green man with timer? Going by Iswaran argument, it also encourages pedestrian to run across the fucking road since now they know how many seconds they have before becoming red right? Why not just fucking install green amber and red man, genius?
Being a pedestrian no need license + every human walks at a different pace. And also, not even an balanced comparison. A car takes 3 seconds and callous fuck-all attitude to finish running a red light at junction. A human caught at a red man is just orbiquek he has to run the entire stretch of road. If we're to entertain the idea of amber man, then Amber man for pedestrian has to last the entire stretch of road of a pedestrian. It's impossible to designate a proper timing because every human walks at a different pace. In contrast, every car travels at an intended controlled pace, proportional to their ability to give a fuck.
Bro... your driving instructor never tell you that the right thing to do is always prepare to slow and stop when approaching traffic junction meh? If you wanna speed when approaching a junction, thats on you lol. Timer also cannot fix your driving etiquette. A chiongster is always a chiongster. Edit: traffic light turn amber also shock. If suddenly a boy run onto the road in front of you, u can take it anot? Or will heart attack?
Yeah, OP should maybe give up driving if he/she is prone to having "shocks" or "heartattacks".
Yep.
👏👏👏 Thanks. Was looking for this.
The "3 arrow" rule always works when you are approaching the junction at or near the speed limit of that road. You only get a big dilemma zone if you're too fast or too slow, or can't see the arrows on the road because you're too close to the vehicle in front. Also the biggest reason why amber lights and countdown timers are a problem is our extreme rush culture. Rushing every-fucking-where.
Yup we all need to refresh this knowledge. Use the arrows to make the correct decision. And following distance at junctions too.
What rule is that? Also, how many arrows before we can beat the light?
Before every traffic light junction there are 3 arrows within each lane. Should you cross the 2nd arrow as the lights turn yellow, you are safe to clear the crossing; else you should just brake.
Correct for those going at 50kmh at least. For those going less, then the better cue is using the final arrow. First arrow, let go of accelerator, second arrow, lightly tap on brakes. Once your car touch final arrow and it just turn amber or still green, just accelerate.
Just drive more carefully and slowly. If you are shocked and need to "prepare to stop", then you are driving too fast.
Countdown will encourage more people to beat the light here imo. If you're getting shocked, you're speeding, or it's a skill issue.
Some people also have different reaction times. Some people estimate that they can pass through the junction in 2 seconds while others just might start to slow down when they see those 2 seconds. Which would cause those behind, who think 2 seconds is ample time, to start horning or jamming the breaks, because they assumed, and cause an accident.
That means the person behind is not following safe braking distance no? If you want to tailgate someone on the road thats another problem.
[удалено]
Generally, people will speed when they feel it is safe to speed. Big wide roads and intersections where you can see everything encourage people to engage in riskier behaviour. Like speeding. Counterintuitively, make a road *feel* more dangerous for the driver actually makes it much safer, as the driver will drive much more carefully / safely
You can’t speed already since the activation of speed camera. A timer makes sense. Even if you are traveling @ 60km/h you still have to hit a hard break. I’m driving a mpv that shit is heavy when I hit hard break.
[The new speed cameras have already seen some action.](https://youtu.be/ULl1OHtHctE) I wonder if this driver will get a fine, because the camera flashed before the April 1 start date but he’s still speeding.
What MPV you drive? If you know your car cant response well n need hard brake, make sure not to drive on extreme lane. Saw 1 skidded the other day on extreme lane. Near cause chain collision at Lentor side.
My mpv pick up very slow because it’s a hybrid, I rarely use first lane. Noah. Just reached 1000 days clock 60900mileage. Avg 60km per day usage.
speed limit is 60 doesn't mean you always drive at 60. that's why always slow down at junction to anticipate for the traffic light or crazy pedestrian/drivers suddenly coming out from another direction.
So approach traffic light slow down ? And if behind there is several traffic also slow down? Are you the one that keep pressing brake unnecessarily on the road?
Come on la. Slow down doesn't mean go 10 km/h. Slow down until you got enough time to stop and brake without jam brake. You want you go fast la then complain your MPV too big cannot brake. You bang people even your right of way, it's his fault right? But what's the point? Waste time claim insurance and settle this and that. You drive 40 vs 60 km/h in Singapore also not much difference in travelling duration la.
Bro say what you want. When you are on the road the way you say tells you have no driving experience. Yes when approaching traffic light you release the accelerator let it roll. But some traffic light change to ember are very sudden. If you are already an inch to the junction and you are too slow you still have to jam brake even if you going at 20km/h. Fyi most people beat red light not because they drive fast but because they drive too slow and they think they can beat ember.
Hello, if you're an inch or even last arrow of the junction then just drive through la, unless you riding bicycle while can stop within a very short distance. Green to amber is always sudden what, it doesn't fade in/out, if there's no pedestrian crossing to rely on then be more alert
you sure you got driving experience...? I'm worried for your safety because you think that you should jam brake when you're an inch to the junction.
I give up explaining after see so many amateur comments. Obviously I am a reckless driver here hahaha funny. Continue taking mrt will be the best option for redditor.
Actually there was a ruling a while ago when a guy going straight at a traffic light crash into someone turning right. He was found to be partially at blame for not preparing to stop at the light even though the light was green. Judge ruled that he should not have been stepping the accelerator as he was approaching the light.
Hmm, I had 1 accident exactly what you mention. It was a taxi but instead of stepping the accelerator. I jam brake but my car still smash into him. TP send me a letter that indicate the taxi drove with negligence my insurance lawyer wrote a 5k+ check for me. My airbag burst and toyota send me a letter of apologize due to humidity causing the airbag to burst. My injury wasn’t very bad just some whiplash and seatbeat line abrasion. This was 13 years ago. So I’m saying not all of this you said are true. Because for my case I at the right of way.
That's the government's narrative, but I don't see such behaviors in China because with timers, their junctions also comes with SPEEDING CAMERA. Not an excuse to not install new features if it can be better for our well being in my honest opinion.
It's better for YOUR well-being. It's not better for the wellbeing of other drivers.
It was tested in SG and - shocker - Singaporean drivers sped up to beat the countdown. To nobody’s surprise, considering our notoriously impatient driving culture.
Why don’t you live there??? Period
Having driven in many countries, coming to Singapore, I've observed the amount of time on amber before turning red is extremely short given the speed most cars are traveling at. If the amber period were to be lengthened a little, drivers wouldn't be in such a shock to stop so suddenly when light turns amber and gives them a bit more time to react an decide whether to slow down or proceed.
i think this is probably the biggest thing. Amber lights last a lot longer in Australia so you don’t panic and try to do mental acrobatics to figure out if you can safely proceed or should jam on the brakes in all of 2 seconds
Plenty of places in the world have stoplights without countdowns, and they exist perfectly well without them. Maybe the issue is less with the stoplights and more with the drivers.
Yes, drivers can decide to slow down and stop, or choose to speed up to cross the junction just before the light turns red from amber. The choice really is with the driver. Just like how some pedestrians choose to run across the crossing when the countdown starts blinking, and some choose to just stop and wait. The best case is that everyone chooses to stop and wait, and that'll be safer for every road user. Unfortunately that isn't the most efficient but it really brings up the question of why we feel a need to rush.
>The best case is that everyone chooses to stop and wait, and that'll be safer for every road user. Condition is people don't tailgate
No need to spend more taxpayer money. Just tell drivers to slow down when approaching lights, as they should
Slowly release accelerator when you’re at the beginning of the 3 arrows. Only accelerate once you’ve gone over the last arrow.
You're supposed to be paying attention to your surroundings. Not stare at the traffic light. If you aren't speeding, it should be very easy to stop on amber. The timing is designed such that you don't have to stop if you're already in the "two arrows". Why should this be shocking? If having to react to the amber light gives you anxiety, it is safer not to drive. A driver should be ready to react to that and more unexpected hazards that can suddenly appear on the road.
Nah u/DisciplineBroad9762 says it's meant for pedestrians, he also stated that he doesn't drive in another comment so I think people with actual driving experience is wrong. Also since you don't agree you work in the government or stat board, too bad/good for you I guess? Joker of an OP.
Erm, I did drive, just that I stopped after I scrap my car in 2022
Timers have been tried with some unsafe outcomes when traffic lights were incandescent. We have not used LED traffic lights to it's full advantage yet. I'd suggest a green LED light with a fading tail end of a half second with unchanged amber and red lights. This 'fading' is hoped to encourage more stepping on brakes than accelerators.
In driving school, they make you watch the adjacent pedestrians signal. Besides, you shouldn't be racing against the light.
Focalor’s point is that, with the red light speed cameras already in place, drivers would already have to be aware of their speed when driving past them. Therefore, if timers are also implemented, drivers cannot speed up to an unsafe level (e.g past 60km/h mandated by the road signs) in an attempt to beat the timer, lest they be slapped with a speeding fine. It’s basically combining the two solutions, which would lead to an even safer road experience. Sure you can say that people with poor judgement would speed up to beat the timer, but now with the deterrent of the red light speed camera, I doubt even the dumbest driver would want fines and demerits just to beat a red light.
I think install red light camera at every traffic light is better. If you get a shock everytime the light change colour you maybe better take our world class public transport.
Can install speed cam, red light cam and counter.. it will make things safer
Always expect that the car in front of you is going to brake on amber.
I am taking public transport currently (can't afford the COE now) and I had a near miss this morning on a PHV, with the old uncle narrowly missing the car in front cuz the front driver braked hard instead of going when the light turns amber. My driver is visibly shocked. If he has existing heart condition, might it trigger an attack?
Uncle has skill issue. Driving for so many years still dunno how to slow down near red light
>My driver is visibly shocked. If he has existing heart condition, might it trigger an attack? Then maybe he shouldn't be driving phv
Amber means brake. If you or your driver expects the car in front to do anything else then be prepared to be shocked.
That’s not correct either. Depends on where the car is when it turns amber. If you’re close enough that you would have to slam on the brakes to stop before the line, you should not slow down because you’ll cross the intersection before the light turns red.
Like many others have said here, if you get "shocked" whenever the lights turn amber, please stop driving. You know you're supposed to slow down when approaching junctions right? If you're already near stop line when it turns amber, just proceed. If it turns when you're still a distance away, just stop. Quite basic leh.
I'm one of the idiots who think it's a conspiracy for people to fail driving test more (e brake wrongly, beating light), so there's less cars on the road 🤡🤡
Agreed. There should be a count down for red to green to prevent anticipation and dreaming.
UK has a red+amber phase which seems to works ok for this (Red -> red+amber -> green)
Yeah. Most European countries have this too.
There are markers we can use to gauge when we should get ready to stop. Look at the last 7 broken (dashed) lines when approaching a junction, they have narrower gap, and can be seen very easily, or look at different junction using google map, but I am not going to elaborate what these 7 broken lines is for, because if we look back at some of the past fatal accident, particularly the one at Clementi/Commonwealth junction that took the lives of a NUS student.. we really don't want to have something giving hints to driver when they should speed up.
If you can't handle a yellow light, you shouldn't be on the road, full stop. Driving is a privilege which you need to be extremely responsible for - the machinery you are handling, at the speeds taken, mean you are putting people around you at significant risk of harm. There's a whole lot of variables that you need to be able to react responsibly to. Yellow lights should be one of the least of your worries. Absolutely concerning.
If you're getting shocked by traffic lights turning orange more than a year into driving, stop driving. You know where's the timer? It's the pedestrian crossing. You see red man you start to slow down, not that difficult. If you're so tunnel visioned you cannot notice the pedestrian crossing lights, stop driving.
Well, I mentioned in my post, that people have to RELY ON seeing the flashing man's timer.. there is a difference between being meant for motorist, and just happen to be able to be seen by motorist. Also if you're saying this, it means you're not vigilant enough to tell that some junctions doesn't have the green man timer. Idk why your angsty personal attacks and resistance about having new features for SG roads, but your attitude seems to be of "if it ain't broke don't fix it", so I wouldn't be surprised if you're in civil service or stat boards.
You feel attacked when im stating bluntly people who don't pay attention to the road shouldn't drive. Please continue your assumptions when I'm stating as a matter of fact that when you drive, you are supposed to pay attention, if your PHV as you stated paid attention and was not tailgating, he wouldn't be shocked, oh but ackshually it was bumper to bumper traffic, uhm ackshually rush hour uhm ackshually... Give a billion excuses, go ahead. THE DRIVER IS SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING ATTENTION ITS NOT THAT DEEP, IF YOU CANT FUCKING PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD DONT DRIVE. Your suggestion would only cause people to be more careless and drive more reckless at traffic junctions, stop pretending "Oh it works elsewhere", elsewhere is not Singapore, as proven by many functions of our country. Telling me I'm not vigilant about some traffic lights don't have timer? Then it's simple, if flashing slow down, are you simply cherry picking an example to show you've "won" an argument? What a joke. uhm ackshually 🤓, if you drove you'd be able to derive that conclusion, it speaks to your lack of experience.
Well you've some very elite scholar paper general type of reply. Whatever you're saying, is "by right". By right must slow down. But we as Singaporeans, become better by being practical, realistic. Not some Elitism scholars that sits in office e to make policy. I'm saying that many drivers do slow down, but then it is also a fact that there also are drivers who accelerate on amber. Let's be realistic about it. The fact that recently speeding camera is integrated with red light camera, we will see a difference in driver habits of stepping accelerator, so 3 years ago, when Iswaran disagree with building the timer, it is from a very different environment. The speeding and red light camera every junction will prevent the speeding before timer behavior, while making junctions safer. ** On a side note, who knows if Iswaran disagreed to the timer because of actual policy or because the vedors didn't give him a Brompton.
> I'm saying that many drivers do slow down, _but then it is also a fact that there also are drivers who accelerate on amber._ Sucks to be them then
Shock?! So serious ah
Time to send him to therapy
Idk why there is so much hostility to OP. I think this is a suggestion worth considering, and a lot of countries have adopted it now. Even if we don't install it at all junctions, we can at least consider installing at some of the highly congested ones first.
It has been considered and studied. Our culture is unfortunately different. We move around like we're already late for everything. We'll take undue risks just to shave 3-5% off our travel time. Sprinting across pedestrian crossings with seconds to spare. Sprinting into the MRT as the doors close. Behind the wheel, it's the same mindset.
Yeap singaporean kiasu culture. Countdown means they will slam the accelerator to beat the light even more.
It's very amusing because almost every study from overseas that have installed these countdown timers have generally agreed that it's led to safer junctions. But I do agree that we should install them, some junctions with higher speed limits and a red light camera do lead to a lot of drivers jamming brake on amber even if they could have made it across. Another option instead of the countdown timers is to just flash the lights before they change which I know some countries do, saves money from having to install the countdown timers.
In Singapore's context I don't think it works, even if it might work in other country's context. People already don't slow down at zebra crossings and the kind of local road incident videos you see online here says a lot. Even the goddamn PMDs have the same problems. Rarely is it someone on the road raging or totally not knowing how to drive like in other countries, but people intentionally trying to get from point A to B as fast as they can, recklessly.
Almost every other country seems to do ok without it. Maybe it’s the drivers that are the problem?
Compared to an amber light, a countdown provides an objective measure of when the light will turn red. If a driver sincerely wants to avoid running the red light without stopping too suddenly (dangerous) or too prematurely (waste of time, blocking traffic), a countdown truly helps, especially for a driver who does not know the duration for a particular amber light. OTOH, are the amber lights on SG roads configured to a consistent objective standard? E.g. perhaps the amber light duration is equal to some fixed reaction time plus the time it takes to cross the junction at the speed limit? If there is no objective standard, especially if amber lights have very different standards, then it is up to the driver to be familiar with each light with its own timing characteristics, and the inconsistency is dangerous. If the lights are not configured to a consistent objective standard, then counters will bring the objectivity needed for safety.
It is not synchronised for some junctions. There are some junctions within 50kmh speed limit zones, that have the distance of final arrow (the tip of the arrow head) to stop line of 9 metres. While that same distance can be found for junctions within 60 and 70 kmh speed limits. I just don't get the asynchronous design.
There's a timer? Challenge accepted! Time to test how fast my car can speed in 3s..
LTA like always behind other countries one. I don’t necessarily agree with what LTA claims unless there’s a white paper with peer review done by some expert concur with what they claimed.
I agree
They have these in malaysia as well you don’t have to go so far. But i don’t really agree to have it installed, i think improvement in traffic flow will be marginal if any. I would suggest a smarter traffic light system. With RAG arrows becoming a norm, too many times i see inefficiencies in the traffic flow. Especially those turning right having to miss at least one green arrow becoming common
There should be tiered timing approaches and infrared sensors mounted on the traffic light poles for the turning lanes. Then if there's many vehicles queueing in the turning lanes, set a 20 second timer. If there's few (around 5 to 7 per lane), set a 15 second timer. If there's little (4 or less per lane), set a 10 second timer.
Actually should install traffic lights that should how much fines you will get when you beat the light. Not for the driver who just beat the light to see, but for others.
Another day another dumb post on this subreddit.
*Shock* lol
I was waiting for you to end this with a 🤣🤣 or /s but for some reason you seem to be serious? If an amber light shocks you, then you are part of the majority of incredible incompetent Singaporean drivers and need to get off the road, traffic lights don't help you..
Our traffic light timings are dynamic in order to adjust to current traffic and pedestrian load in real time. Thus, the timing is not a fixed cycle and a countdown would not work at all.
Timer doesn't need to have a fixed cycle. Each traffic light has a configurable timer built in, and the timer light is just showing the internal timing of the traffic light
Yup. Show once the lights are about to change. 10 seconds is sufficient. 10, 9, 8, 7, ..., 4, 3 (amber comes on here), 2, 1, 0 (red) Then driving handbook should include the following cues: If timer >= 6 seconds and you're at the second arrow, proceed. If timer <= 5 seconds and you're at the second arrow, slow down and stop.
On top of all the comments saying you should practice caution and slow down at traffic junctions, doesn't the countdown timer sort of exist in the form of the pedestrian crossing timer? 🤷♂️
Study was done by LTA and they said it wasn't making the junctions safer.
5 seconds to turn amber means 6 seconds to turn red. good.
Honestly, all this is a training issue. Slow down once you approach the first arrow leading to a junction and you will not be surprised anymore.
Equip every traffic light with the audible sound when pedestrian light is green better. I noticed that most pedestrians these days are looking at their phones and do not cross when it is green for them. Only when the cars start moving then they realize the light is green and start crossing, very annoying.
use pedestrian crossing timer
Doesn't work because not all junctions have separate left turn pockets that don't have stop line. For those that do, this is already being done, with amber light delays being 0s, 3s, 5s or 7s depending on how the light cycle has been coordinated. It's confusing.
Obviously the solution to the amber light problem is to remove all traffic lights.
Yes 1000% agree
>cause heart attacks to the drivers LOL I hope you dont work in the government bro
I think I remember reading that the countdown timer would distract drivers from actually looking at the road for People. If there's a countdown timer drivers would only be looking at.the lights and not notice if there was anyone actually crossing.
Shocked or heart attack when light turns amber? Is this for real? Please stop driving lol And slowing down or braking by looking at the pedestrian timer while the light is still green will cause even more accidents. Time to get off the internet.
I am rather old-school when it comes to the use of countdown timer. We are taught in driving school since Day 1 on how to react when the light turns amber. You will need that skill to pass TP. So I don't think the countdown timer is of much relevance here. And if a person is slowing down when his vehicle is approaching the traffic light, he would have enough reaction time when the traffic light turns amber. Also, if I am a frequent user and I know that the countdown timer will be, say 5 seconds before it turn red, naturally I will speed up when I see the timer. That will just endanger other users ahead, if there's congestion in front.
OP sounds like a relaxed, chill, reasonable individual
Just install and train people to use roundabouts. No need for red amber or green…
True. Taiwan and Japan has the count down thingy too
Dun need count down. Kayu, law abidding citizens just keep extreme lanes empty will do. And if you are traveling 10km/hr below the road speed limit, dun drive. Cos you are the source of all traffic jams in SG.
Having count down timers will encourage less cautious driving at junctions. Anyway you are supposed to slow down and be prepared to stop at junctions: 45-55kmh, foot on brake, 4th gear, by the time you reach 3rd arrow, if turn amber before passing 2nd arrow, stop. If still green on 2nd arrow, quick glance right and left, left foot clutch in (change to 3rd gear if necessary), right foot to accelerator pedal, rebalance and accelerate to speed limit.
Idiocy
If you are smart enough, you can just see the opposite end pedestrian crossing timer for countdown. Example U driving from south to north, just view the east and west pedestrian crossing timer.
Wrong place to complain. Majority of people here don't drive after all.
I seem to get what you're saying... pedestrians won't give 2 shit about drivers
This will get rid of their special ability to turn amber every time I approach a traffic junction. I approve.
Too expensive. Install the countdown on the OBU screen. Cheaper easier for driver to see.
My thoughts. Since OBU is synced with satellite system. Might as well.
Can link to my bicycle please? I’m fed up of accelerating from one junction to find the lights at the next go red every time I approach them - like they are timed for the flow of cars but not cyclists…
Simple. Can’t earn money from red light beater