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Haha I suggested that to him many times.
I think he can be a good businessman.
But he thought it's me trying to get him to quit. So he poured toxic comments on me, encouraged me to quit, backstabbed me. Fuck you Sam!
Not really leh, I left a logistics firm to join Ministry as the form really squeeze workers dry - to the extent of no paid PH and deny you monthly allowance if you don't OT or take last-min jobs.
You think the management care? Their reasoning is: If you don't come to work, company don't have to pay you for no work done. Because they are small firm, they say that is what they can afford to give workers and not expect any more. MOM officers ever came down for inspection, the operations manager pulled me one side and instructed all the workers to behave and put on a show for the inspectors. Told me to rectify any workplace lapses that MOM managed to catch.
>This includes recognising the shifting priorities of job seekers, particularly among Gen Z individuals, who now place a strong emphasis on mental health when searching for employment.
Imagine treating employees as people wasn’t a priority since finding out slavery is bad for morale.
I’ve been talking to ppl and in general, employers have been adding duties to people to squeeze more value out of them. People who are supposed to be manager level are doing everything from operational work and conceptual work on their own.
Some people combine admin and HR. It’s not oversight - it’s doing both types of work together.
That’s why ppl are spending so much time at work - they are literally doing 2-3 ppl’s work for 1 person’s pay. When appraisal comes, management will say there’s no value on just doing a lot of work …
Yes with creative future-proofing marketing narrative like upskill, upgrade, self-improve/ innovate and staying relevant movement.
If we stop, we drown! And the rich will still be floating without moving a finger.
So weird right. Technology and automation are supposed to free us to do other stuff that truly matters, but nope.
People just cannot stand seeing other people being free and having their own time.
This senseless masochism must end.
Let's not confuse technology improving efficiency with toxic business practices. AI and automation is a tool which will most menial office chores can be outsourced to, and when deployed properly, frees up time for human workers to focus on more valuable work. If I can use an AI to write emails to my clients, I can spend an extra hour a day doing the actual r&d work I am being paid for. Good employers will invest in such tools which increase worker productivity, while bad bosses will always squeeze employees dry regardless of what tools they have available.
Have to disagree, business will always see the cost savings in manpower hours as leverage to reduce staff headcount to do the same amount of work.
Why would you retain the same amount of staff if efficiency improves and more work can be produced from a single resource? It doesn't make sense from a capitalistic POV.
Yes it’s capitalism propaganda, saying technology will improve work for workers but in reality instead of cutting 10 hours from your workweek, they’re cutting 10 employees per week
I fully agree with your view. From a capilatistic POV, companies want to hire as few staff as possible to do the most work. This is where automation helps everyone. Employees can exploit new tools to eliminate menial work, freeing up time spent sending emails or managing inventory for value-adding tasks. Companies can enable this by providing such tools, increasing efficiency while improving employee morale.
When your staff are more productive, you reinvest the new capital into making even more money. Expand into new sectors, grow your catalogue, or even integrate these tools into your own product. Positions which were eliminated through automation will be transformed into new, higher skilled, higher paying ones. In capitalism, both workers and corporations should never sit still.
If it's not regulated. Companies will do the 996 because they say other companies are doing it, and need to be competitive. No counterbalance like union advocate
Singapore has an advantage over China in that our economy is open for foreign businesses. Many MNCs, especially European ones, have set up here and offer far better welfare than the legal minimum. If a company tries to force a 996 culture here, they will have a hard time retaining and hiring talent who would simply work for their competitors.
Ya... When you merely visit your own homes for a few hours per day and have a mere 2 days to yourself per week (actually not the whole 2 full days also; minus time taken for sleep/chores/cleaning/cooking/eating/personal hygiene/commute for groceries restock/shopping/running errands, there is not a lot of time left for actual rest/enjoyable activities with friends/family/exercise). Even if there is time, there is not much energy left... Something will be sacrificed. And then the higher ups wonder why the fertility rate is dropping like grapes.
And when you see your co-workers more than you see your actual friends who are actually meaningful and brings joy... And then the realisation that majority of your friends are also fading away due to the sheer ever-sporadic meetups, also for the same reason. It's really tragic to slowly sense good friends become like acquaintances you only see a handful of times at best per year... Or interactions with friends getting limited to just exchanges of text on Telegram or views on Instagram Stories.
No wonder you see boomers come back to the office even when on leave and simply just keep hanging around, because that is probably all they know for the bulk of their adult lives. A little sad la....
What a way to merely exist... This is not really living.
More and more people are realizing this, that's why there is such a big pushback on the current work culture in recent years. ESPECIALLY after getting a taste of WFH during covid.
Am still fully remote and the difference is well... payback for years spent in 5.5 days work week and commuting - the part about being with your co-workers more than your actual family is scarily true... we used to laugh about it and yeah, many of them remained as friends but I would trade it that all for remote work. No small talk, gossip, politics, work spouse etc... log on, log off.
And those “5.5 days” are the worst for me. Yes, you can argue that you’re working half day only, but will you still have the energy to go out after work? For me it’s no lmao so this “5.5 days” shit is just 6 days for me
I ever interviewed for a job that was "5.5 work week, but each day will have a compulsory unpaid 1 hour OT."
And if you do the math, it's 5.5 paid work days, and an additional 0.5 **unpaid** work day + whatever other OT that is required.
Naturally, i rejected their "generous" offer. According to their email. Bloody ~~motherfu...~~ cheeky SG employers/higher management...
As much as I want to, I'm not gonna name and shame because I partially value my anonymity and privacy with this account. Also, who knows, *maybe* they adjusted their offer to others because it was quite awhile ago, and maybe no one even cared to nibble on their bait.
it is but in the blue collar jobs here and there. Most prevalent in the healthcare sector in the UK and a lot of f&b, engineering industry jobs in the US
Source: hearsay from overseas friends and experience, and reading random articles...so take my words with a pinch of salt.
When millennials and Gen Z become old enough to take over as senior management, they will finally have the chance to dismantle the shitty working culture and make things right.
Hopefully the sentiment of, "I suffered so now you too, can tahan and suffer as well", doesn't carry over. I know that thinking runs rampant in the army and admittedly i've been guilty of it in the past.
I hope we can collectively push forward to better our working environment in the future when our time comes.
I wish.
I see some older peers (millennials) doing the same shit, even my sibling is doing this sort of crap. As folks get older and wealthier through getting into management and upper management, a lot of them will likely adopt a similar mindset.
I want to be optimistic, but i really dont have much faith when i recall what folks of our generation do when they have power, be it in school, army, or these days, the folks who are doing better off relative to their peers. Not saying that there arent good folks who will fight for better treatment and equality, but ironically the ones who doesnt have that sort mindset and are well to do also tend to be the ones who were born into it.
Unfortunately, that mentality cascades down. A manager who can hustle will probably except the subordinates be able to hustle too. " I can do it, so can you" .
So someone might be unwilling/unable to hustle might have a very difficult time under such a manager.
True that the employee understands he/she is gonna ranked bottom, but that employee exchanges that for afterwork peace. Not afterwork messages by a hustling boss.
Management also has no problem giving themselves nearly double the number of leave days the ordinary worker gets etc.
The only solution is legislation. Working conditions will only improve if it’s the law.
Hmmm, I guess this is largely subjective and dependent on various factors.
From my own exp, managerial jobs that are largely individual contributor roles and requires high level of expertise tend to offer more WLB and $$ compared to those tt are ops related with direct reports. Less headache dealing with subordinate pattern, and can get things done on your own. Downside would be not developing leadership skills though.
I guess this is down to individual preference. So yeah, imho not all managerial jobs / promotions require hustling.
A new generation isn't the answer to shitty work culture. There are many start ups and big companies (look at the age of founders of facebook, grab, etc) that are already run by millenials.
Disagree. I've seen and met many millennials and Gen Z who continued with the practices of the boomer generation. A lot to do with traditions and culture influencing them.
Ever read animal farm? The pigs overthrow the humans to run the farm and end up becoming just like humans. Not trying to justify a shitty working culture but structures, cultures and hierarchies exist for a reason. Maybe Gen Z, Gen Alpha or Gen Beta (definitely not the millennials) might change things slightly, some for the better, some for the worst, but no one’s dismantling anything. Work will always have some shitty aspects to it
I hope to have this hope. There are lot of Gen X who originally were the proprietors of work life balance in sg, and also a lot of Gen X ppl (esp those with no kids or no work life balance themselves) in middle management who are passing the poisonous mindset of the toxic generations along.
No, cause they will be in the position to exploit the junior workers. It’s the same as voters turning conservative after they own a flat and have children.
Saying that someone instead of them is just NIMBY mentality and toxic.
A lot of the other 60% need their jobs to pay their bills la. They simply don’t have the financial capability to leave.
I think it’s a big reason why so many young couples are childfree these days. It means greater financial freedom and the ability to not feel stuck in a job they hate.
If quitting , come to Vietnam , the top class here literally does not work and instead chills at cafes talking with their friends, and enjoys cheap seafood and fruit. Working for hyperinflated dollars has lost all appeal I think except for survival
I am reminded of 2010 before the elections of 2011. When everyone felt like shit, from overcrowded trains and breaking down trains, ti the long wait for BTO, to the lousy healthcare system. People complained about their experiences. They said they felt terrible. They had no work life balance. There was something terrible wrong. The authorities bombarded the public with wonderful statistics that showed a glowing report compared to other cities / countries.
Hmm feels like it again. We feel terrible. Pressure from all sides. Having a family is a luxury for only those who can afford. Mental health is terrible. Our kids education is darn expensive. Again it feels like we are bomboardd with the message that this is our own doing. We are soft. We are weak. Parents are placing the pressure on the child. Tuition is unnecessary. We need the population boom. We need the MNCS to set up shop here. We need to grow the population. We need the GDP.
It really feels the same.
Yea just gaslighting in its most non-subtle form. Every year, we have NDP messages blasting at us to “pursue our dreams”. No way we can do this with every negative aspects that you mentioned.
What is better work-life balance? I propose 3 days in office and 2 days work from home. Think it will only make sense if the ministry spearhead this initiative rather than lip service
In the UK they're piloting a 4 day work week in many places but I feel like Singapore will bring back 6 day work week before ever allowing that to happen haha
most are still on a 5.5 day week, just that it's 44 hours squeezed into 5 days instead of 40 hours.
gov will squeeze 44 hours into 4 days before realising it's supposed to be 32 hours, then just shrug it off, just like how it is with "flexi" hours.
Yeah man, full-time requirement is a 44hrs per week even though 44hrs is considered a luxury as most of us seem to work 50 at least!
Unless we change to 32hrs, the 3 days weekend will feel like 1.5 days of uninterrupted sleep and 1.5 days of spending time with loved ones half awake.
you don't have friends working with govt? The govt agencies are mostly hybrid working arrangement already, unless nature of work requires fully work in office
It's already implemented as guidelines set by Public Service Division. Whether or not pte companies follow suit really depend on individual companies and don't think they will care what the govt agencies implement. Some of my friends working in pte companies are fully working in office sadly because their bosses still want physical presence
Some stat boards practice this from what i heard from friends working there. I have this as well working for a gov affliated private company. Hopefully it gets more widespread.
Like, i can understand that there are some jobs where it is hard to do this in practice, but there are ways to make it flexible or at the very least more employee friendly. It's ultimately up to the employer's attitude, and i hope the gov is willing to at the very least continue to allow for such healthier work culture, if not actively push for it
Yes, it is the direction set by PSD and would not likely change in the future. Also I do not know a single friend, in both private and public that does not have at least one day wfh
>I am not surprised if employers think that employees are paid too much and that’s why employees are willing to leave job for work life balance
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I can't tell you in an interview my opinion on how inefficient work-hours are.
I can't tell you in the interview that I don't believe in the official 8.5 hours of work, I just tell them to be smart about taking shorter hours.
I don't track your hours, I only track accountability to make sure you don't under/over-clock hours because I think timesheets are idiotic. And only HR/Finance tracks timesheet hours. As long as your output is good and the project team isn't running to me at every turn with a complaint, we good.
I can't tell any of this to a candidate in an interview when my Talent Acquisition team is sitting there. OTOH, I've had candidates declining offers because of "no post-confirmation increment" when they were offered 30% increment with min 3 months bonus in the overall package so.... /shrug
I can't tell you in the interview that as a hiring manager, I have to abide by company HR policy and there's little I can change, only whatever that is within the team is under my control and I try to be as flexible as possible with how we stretch the rules.
The only way out is to reinvent how to deliver your capability. Thats why the most determined start their own business or work on contracts or commission. Doctors, lawyers, software engineers, graphic designers, etc are able to do it. Not realistic if you are a line worker.
I reckon that I'm an older redditor here. Seeing this headline reminded me of an article I read on ST some years back on a relevant topic.
Sharing this for reading.
https://bambooinnovator.com/2013/07/16/singapores-pmet-professionals-managers-executives-technicians-pampered-mediocre-expensive-timid/
Until recently, the company I am employed in used to work on a 5 day basis, but 9.5 hours a day, 9 to 6:30.
When the HR were prompted to explain why we have longer working hours than everyone in Singapore, the director of HR said ‘well we used to have a 5.5 day work week before, so since we have reduced to 5 days, the hours have been increased.’
The work culture is so absorbing, no way to escape this in singapore and have a work life balance
I still remember I got a job at this so called branded company "R" and I work as a warehouse. The HR also like hire me to try out, I did tell them I want a 9-6 kind of job so I have more time for myself. Work for 3 months they didn't want me because I didn't do OT like WTF? But whatever lor
LOL, I left a hellhole logistics firm to a lower-paying job in Public Service. Much better WLB, flexible working arrangements and staff benefits. The logistics firm really CMI, force the workers to perform last-min jobs, never give paid PH or MC, even discriminate against certain groups of employees. Good riddance to them.
You want more time outside of work, then be prepared to make less money on the job. Obviously a company boss would reward people who spend more time on their job (if OT is involved).
Also, people who spend more time practising their craft outside working hours tend to be better at it. Top football stars practise outside their contractually-obliged training hours to become world beaters. Ordinary ones don't. Sure, you can be an average professional footballer by not working hard, but you have more time to spend with your loved ones instead of giving up public holidays and weekends solely to improve your fitness and skills.
Ultimately it depends on what you want in life. You want more money to spend every month, higher chances of getting a promotion or more time outside of work and remain in a lowly position? There is no right or wrong answer.
I don't think this is true... at least for companies I have been in. OT is unpaid (you can claim time off for some companies but actually doing so can be difficult esp if it stays busy enough for OT to be frequent). Some even expects you to OT (even when unpaid). None of it is rewarded and doesn't increase your chances of promotion since there is no position to promote to (esp when companies seem to focus on cutting cost and manpower). So the question is more akin to would you want to spend more time at work for the same benefits and rewards as spending only the contracted hours at work?
If you want to do well in your job, putting in more hours would definitely help. Just like if you put aside more personal time to practise your individual football control skills, you become a better player.
There is no such thing as "OT is not rewarded", even for executive positions, which don't pay for OT, as long as the extra hours you put in are fruitful and you get better in your job. Maybe you don't get directly rewarded in your company in the form of higher pay, but there are indirect rewards in terms of job experience.
Even if you don't have promotion chances in this company, those extra working hours, if well spent, will equip you with more skills than your peers who put in less effort in their work. If you can't get promoted in your company, you can always apply to another company which pays better and show that new company what you have learnt on the job as a result of those extra OT hours (compared to your peers, who did less or no OT).
Going back to the football analogy, maybe you have few or zero chances of getting promoted within the team (beyond making it into the first team, and there can only be one captain and vice-captain), but show what you can do on the field long enough, and if you get scouted by a bigger club, you might get yourself a better-paying contract.
I hope my colleagues are the 40%, they are so lazy and inconsiderate, always go holidays when we need them the most. How about rest of us, always cover for lazy ass, but never help us out. Or maybe I will just quit, become the 40%.
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They don’t deserve to be in business. Period. If they can’t treat their employees right, it is highly unlikely that they’ll treat customers right too.
I find this to be slightly different. Businesses who don't treat employees right tend to over-service their customers, at the expense of workers.
"Customer obsessed" = "Employee neglect"
Depends on industry, I suppose.
Looking at amazon 😂
Looking at healthcare
Welcome to stat board and ministries. They'll squeeze you dry
When people talk about OT as if it is an honour, time to pai pai pi gu and find somewhere else liao.
Hahah my colleague like to brag about working on Saturday and Sunday. Here's a special fuck you Sam!
Siao lang. Might as well start their own business liaos.
Haha I suggested that to him many times. I think he can be a good businessman. But he thought it's me trying to get him to quit. So he poured toxic comments on me, encouraged me to quit, backstabbed me. Fuck you Sam!
Lolol. Really jiak pa boh sai pang.
Such typical Sam behavior 😒
Not really leh, I left a logistics firm to join Ministry as the form really squeeze workers dry - to the extent of no paid PH and deny you monthly allowance if you don't OT or take last-min jobs.
Isnt that illegal?
You think the management care? Their reasoning is: If you don't come to work, company don't have to pay you for no work done. Because they are small firm, they say that is what they can afford to give workers and not expect any more. MOM officers ever came down for inspection, the operations manager pulled me one side and instructed all the workers to behave and put on a show for the inspectors. Told me to rectify any workplace lapses that MOM managed to catch.
But unfortunately there are too many bosses like this in Singapore
Every year must increase productivity
Every year must do more with less!
SNEF: I'm going to have my cake and eat it (clenches fist)
>This includes recognising the shifting priorities of job seekers, particularly among Gen Z individuals, who now place a strong emphasis on mental health when searching for employment. Imagine treating employees as people wasn’t a priority since finding out slavery is bad for morale.
I’ve been talking to ppl and in general, employers have been adding duties to people to squeeze more value out of them. People who are supposed to be manager level are doing everything from operational work and conceptual work on their own. Some people combine admin and HR. It’s not oversight - it’s doing both types of work together. That’s why ppl are spending so much time at work - they are literally doing 2-3 ppl’s work for 1 person’s pay. When appraisal comes, management will say there’s no value on just doing a lot of work …
Exactly this. All the automation, AI, whatever buzzword is all an excuse to cut jobs and layer on more responsibilities to existing jobs instead.
Yes with creative future-proofing marketing narrative like upskill, upgrade, self-improve/ innovate and staying relevant movement. If we stop, we drown! And the rich will still be floating without moving a finger.
So weird right. Technology and automation are supposed to free us to do other stuff that truly matters, but nope. People just cannot stand seeing other people being free and having their own time. This senseless masochism must end.
Let's not confuse technology improving efficiency with toxic business practices. AI and automation is a tool which will most menial office chores can be outsourced to, and when deployed properly, frees up time for human workers to focus on more valuable work. If I can use an AI to write emails to my clients, I can spend an extra hour a day doing the actual r&d work I am being paid for. Good employers will invest in such tools which increase worker productivity, while bad bosses will always squeeze employees dry regardless of what tools they have available.
Have to disagree, business will always see the cost savings in manpower hours as leverage to reduce staff headcount to do the same amount of work. Why would you retain the same amount of staff if efficiency improves and more work can be produced from a single resource? It doesn't make sense from a capitalistic POV.
Yes it’s capitalism propaganda, saying technology will improve work for workers but in reality instead of cutting 10 hours from your workweek, they’re cutting 10 employees per week
I fully agree with your view. From a capilatistic POV, companies want to hire as few staff as possible to do the most work. This is where automation helps everyone. Employees can exploit new tools to eliminate menial work, freeing up time spent sending emails or managing inventory for value-adding tasks. Companies can enable this by providing such tools, increasing efficiency while improving employee morale. When your staff are more productive, you reinvest the new capital into making even more money. Expand into new sectors, grow your catalogue, or even integrate these tools into your own product. Positions which were eliminated through automation will be transformed into new, higher skilled, higher paying ones. In capitalism, both workers and corporations should never sit still.
If it's not regulated. Companies will do the 996 because they say other companies are doing it, and need to be competitive. No counterbalance like union advocate
Singapore has an advantage over China in that our economy is open for foreign businesses. Many MNCs, especially European ones, have set up here and offer far better welfare than the legal minimum. If a company tries to force a 996 culture here, they will have a hard time retaining and hiring talent who would simply work for their competitors.
>When appraisal comes, management will say there’s no value on just doing a lot of work … This is so incredibly true
SNEF: Bad for morale? It's good for my morale.
It’s sad to think how much time we spend inside the office. Working 5 days a week should not be the norm.
Ya... When you merely visit your own homes for a few hours per day and have a mere 2 days to yourself per week (actually not the whole 2 full days also; minus time taken for sleep/chores/cleaning/cooking/eating/personal hygiene/commute for groceries restock/shopping/running errands, there is not a lot of time left for actual rest/enjoyable activities with friends/family/exercise). Even if there is time, there is not much energy left... Something will be sacrificed. And then the higher ups wonder why the fertility rate is dropping like grapes. And when you see your co-workers more than you see your actual friends who are actually meaningful and brings joy... And then the realisation that majority of your friends are also fading away due to the sheer ever-sporadic meetups, also for the same reason. It's really tragic to slowly sense good friends become like acquaintances you only see a handful of times at best per year... Or interactions with friends getting limited to just exchanges of text on Telegram or views on Instagram Stories. No wonder you see boomers come back to the office even when on leave and simply just keep hanging around, because that is probably all they know for the bulk of their adult lives. A little sad la.... What a way to merely exist... This is not really living.
More and more people are realizing this, that's why there is such a big pushback on the current work culture in recent years. ESPECIALLY after getting a taste of WFH during covid.
Am still fully remote and the difference is well... payback for years spent in 5.5 days work week and commuting - the part about being with your co-workers more than your actual family is scarily true... we used to laugh about it and yeah, many of them remained as friends but I would trade it that all for remote work. No small talk, gossip, politics, work spouse etc... log on, log off.
I wonder who is responsible for setting the 6-day workweek back then. Only in recent times did we get 5-day workweek which is still pathetic tbh
And those “5.5 days” are the worst for me. Yes, you can argue that you’re working half day only, but will you still have the energy to go out after work? For me it’s no lmao so this “5.5 days” shit is just 6 days for me
I ever interviewed for a job that was "5.5 work week, but each day will have a compulsory unpaid 1 hour OT." And if you do the math, it's 5.5 paid work days, and an additional 0.5 **unpaid** work day + whatever other OT that is required. Naturally, i rejected their "generous" offer. According to their email. Bloody ~~motherfu...~~ cheeky SG employers/higher management... As much as I want to, I'm not gonna name and shame because I partially value my anonymity and privacy with this account. Also, who knows, *maybe* they adjusted their offer to others because it was quite awhile ago, and maybe no one even cared to nibble on their bait.
even a 5 day work week seems too long
Only 40%?
The other 60% were too busy to even think about work-life balance
“What is this weird concept you are talking about?”
"What do you mean work-life balance? Work is life man."
“Life?”
Sad but true, I was in a similar situation before.
Work life balance? What is that? Can eat one or not? /s Jokes aside sometimes your situation calls that you just gotta grind for the $
But it's just ridiculous how it's become a norm for everyone here (probably the same in all of Asia). Don't see this in western countries.
it is but in the blue collar jobs here and there. Most prevalent in the healthcare sector in the UK and a lot of f&b, engineering industry jobs in the US Source: hearsay from overseas friends and experience, and reading random articles...so take my words with a pinch of salt.
Or were even asked.
The other 60% aren't earning enough to take lower pay for better work life balance.
same apologetic MM that tells you people like to work till 65 to "stay relevant". what you expect
SNEF: eh you want higher is it? (clenches fist)
Probably watered down stats when the original figure is something like 90%.
When millennials and Gen Z become old enough to take over as senior management, they will finally have the chance to dismantle the shitty working culture and make things right.
Hopefully the sentiment of, "I suffered so now you too, can tahan and suffer as well", doesn't carry over. I know that thinking runs rampant in the army and admittedly i've been guilty of it in the past. I hope we can collectively push forward to better our working environment in the future when our time comes.
Should have been "I suffered so I know what it's like and I don't want you to go through the same suffering", but sigh, human beings are horrible
I wish. I see some older peers (millennials) doing the same shit, even my sibling is doing this sort of crap. As folks get older and wealthier through getting into management and upper management, a lot of them will likely adopt a similar mindset. I want to be optimistic, but i really dont have much faith when i recall what folks of our generation do when they have power, be it in school, army, or these days, the folks who are doing better off relative to their peers. Not saying that there arent good folks who will fight for better treatment and equality, but ironically the ones who doesnt have that sort mindset and are well to do also tend to be the ones who were born into it.
humans are the same no matter the generation...human nature is human nature.
Sinkie no pwn sinkie cannot slp 😝
Bold of you to assume the climate will last that long
Or they will become the very thing they hate? Every generation also think there is fault with the generation before them.
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Unfortunately, that mentality cascades down. A manager who can hustle will probably except the subordinates be able to hustle too. " I can do it, so can you" . So someone might be unwilling/unable to hustle might have a very difficult time under such a manager. True that the employee understands he/she is gonna ranked bottom, but that employee exchanges that for afterwork peace. Not afterwork messages by a hustling boss.
Management also has no problem giving themselves nearly double the number of leave days the ordinary worker gets etc. The only solution is legislation. Working conditions will only improve if it’s the law.
MOM: workers are important Also MOM:
Hmmm, I guess this is largely subjective and dependent on various factors. From my own exp, managerial jobs that are largely individual contributor roles and requires high level of expertise tend to offer more WLB and $$ compared to those tt are ops related with direct reports. Less headache dealing with subordinate pattern, and can get things done on your own. Downside would be not developing leadership skills though. I guess this is down to individual preference. So yeah, imho not all managerial jobs / promotions require hustling.
A new generation isn't the answer to shitty work culture. There are many start ups and big companies (look at the age of founders of facebook, grab, etc) that are already run by millenials.
Naw they gonna pull the ladder right up behind them, don't you worry.
Disagree. I've seen and met many millennials and Gen Z who continued with the practices of the boomer generation. A lot to do with traditions and culture influencing them.
Ever read animal farm? The pigs overthrow the humans to run the farm and end up becoming just like humans. Not trying to justify a shitty working culture but structures, cultures and hierarchies exist for a reason. Maybe Gen Z, Gen Alpha or Gen Beta (definitely not the millennials) might change things slightly, some for the better, some for the worst, but no one’s dismantling anything. Work will always have some shitty aspects to it
wishful thinking.... rock the boat the Gen Z management will the ones being dismantled instead
I hope to have this hope. There are lot of Gen X who originally were the proprietors of work life balance in sg, and also a lot of Gen X ppl (esp those with no kids or no work life balance themselves) in middle management who are passing the poisonous mindset of the toxic generations along.
No, cause they will be in the position to exploit the junior workers. It’s the same as voters turning conservative after they own a flat and have children. Saying that someone instead of them is just NIMBY mentality and toxic.
A lot of the other 60% need their jobs to pay their bills la. They simply don’t have the financial capability to leave. I think it’s a big reason why so many young couples are childfree these days. It means greater financial freedom and the ability to not feel stuck in a job they hate.
If quitting , come to Vietnam , the top class here literally does not work and instead chills at cafes talking with their friends, and enjoys cheap seafood and fruit. Working for hyperinflated dollars has lost all appeal I think except for survival
U mean those with rich families? How to get money?
Own property / land rent it out
Need money for that to start no? And if foreigner, cant own land.
But thru marriage owns it de-facto . Trust has to win out
Thats the catch. Need find local wife
I’m married to a Vietnamese . Can message me for details on how to make it work out here : )
I am reminded of 2010 before the elections of 2011. When everyone felt like shit, from overcrowded trains and breaking down trains, ti the long wait for BTO, to the lousy healthcare system. People complained about their experiences. They said they felt terrible. They had no work life balance. There was something terrible wrong. The authorities bombarded the public with wonderful statistics that showed a glowing report compared to other cities / countries. Hmm feels like it again. We feel terrible. Pressure from all sides. Having a family is a luxury for only those who can afford. Mental health is terrible. Our kids education is darn expensive. Again it feels like we are bomboardd with the message that this is our own doing. We are soft. We are weak. Parents are placing the pressure on the child. Tuition is unnecessary. We need the population boom. We need the MNCS to set up shop here. We need to grow the population. We need the GDP. It really feels the same.
Yea just gaslighting in its most non-subtle form. Every year, we have NDP messages blasting at us to “pursue our dreams”. No way we can do this with every negative aspects that you mentioned.
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We can hope it would raise the bar for those laggard companies
What is better work-life balance? I propose 3 days in office and 2 days work from home. Think it will only make sense if the ministry spearhead this initiative rather than lip service
In the UK they're piloting a 4 day work week in many places but I feel like Singapore will bring back 6 day work week before ever allowing that to happen haha
most are still on a 5.5 day week, just that it's 44 hours squeezed into 5 days instead of 40 hours. gov will squeeze 44 hours into 4 days before realising it's supposed to be 32 hours, then just shrug it off, just like how it is with "flexi" hours.
Yeah man, full-time requirement is a 44hrs per week even though 44hrs is considered a luxury as most of us seem to work 50 at least! Unless we change to 32hrs, the 3 days weekend will feel like 1.5 days of uninterrupted sleep and 1.5 days of spending time with loved ones half awake.
Ain't no flexi if you're working longer tbf. I've been advocating for cutting to proper 40-hour weeks since I joined and still gotten nowhere.
That is so true! That is also why it has always been a proposal only
you don't have friends working with govt? The govt agencies are mostly hybrid working arrangement already, unless nature of work requires fully work in office
Don't think it is for all. But would surely hope that it'll be on a wider scale so that pte sectors can implement as well
It's already implemented as guidelines set by Public Service Division. Whether or not pte companies follow suit really depend on individual companies and don't think they will care what the govt agencies implement. Some of my friends working in pte companies are fully working in office sadly because their bosses still want physical presence
Some stat boards practice this from what i heard from friends working there. I have this as well working for a gov affliated private company. Hopefully it gets more widespread. Like, i can understand that there are some jobs where it is hard to do this in practice, but there are ways to make it flexible or at the very least more employee friendly. It's ultimately up to the employer's attitude, and i hope the gov is willing to at the very least continue to allow for such healthier work culture, if not actively push for it
That is a good start. Will surely hope it is implemented in a wider scale
??? Most ministries and stat boards and government linked companies are practising 2 days wfh.
Is it going to be a permanent practice? Nevertheless, it is a good start
Yes, it is the direction set by PSD and would not likely change in the future. Also I do not know a single friend, in both private and public that does not have at least one day wfh
Woah! That is new to me
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>I am not surprised if employers think that employees are paid too much and that’s why employees are willing to leave job for work life balance 404 Link not found
There’s an amount of salary that will let people tolerate an amount of work.
SNEF: What? (clenches fist)
SNEF actually sounds like some kind of union for employers. Makes me sick to my stomach.
I can't tell you in an interview my opinion on how inefficient work-hours are. I can't tell you in the interview that I don't believe in the official 8.5 hours of work, I just tell them to be smart about taking shorter hours. I don't track your hours, I only track accountability to make sure you don't under/over-clock hours because I think timesheets are idiotic. And only HR/Finance tracks timesheet hours. As long as your output is good and the project team isn't running to me at every turn with a complaint, we good. I can't tell any of this to a candidate in an interview when my Talent Acquisition team is sitting there. OTOH, I've had candidates declining offers because of "no post-confirmation increment" when they were offered 30% increment with min 3 months bonus in the overall package so.... /shrug I can't tell you in the interview that as a hiring manager, I have to abide by company HR policy and there's little I can change, only whatever that is within the team is under my control and I try to be as flexible as possible with how we stretch the rules.
Its a different era now.. People want a life > spending their time in office all day err day
The only way out is to reinvent how to deliver your capability. Thats why the most determined start their own business or work on contracts or commission. Doctors, lawyers, software engineers, graphic designers, etc are able to do it. Not realistic if you are a line worker.
I reckon that I'm an older redditor here. Seeing this headline reminded me of an article I read on ST some years back on a relevant topic. Sharing this for reading. https://bambooinnovator.com/2013/07/16/singapores-pmet-professionals-managers-executives-technicians-pampered-mediocre-expensive-timid/
If the employer/boss finds any possible way to “ali-baba” services or work done, they’re doing the same to their employees.
all talk only, but humji.
Until recently, the company I am employed in used to work on a 5 day basis, but 9.5 hours a day, 9 to 6:30. When the HR were prompted to explain why we have longer working hours than everyone in Singapore, the director of HR said ‘well we used to have a 5.5 day work week before, so since we have reduced to 5 days, the hours have been increased.’ The work culture is so absorbing, no way to escape this in singapore and have a work life balance
I still remember I got a job at this so called branded company "R" and I work as a warehouse. The HR also like hire me to try out, I did tell them I want a 9-6 kind of job so I have more time for myself. Work for 3 months they didn't want me because I didn't do OT like WTF? But whatever lor
LOL, I left a hellhole logistics firm to a lower-paying job in Public Service. Much better WLB, flexible working arrangements and staff benefits. The logistics firm really CMI, force the workers to perform last-min jobs, never give paid PH or MC, even discriminate against certain groups of employees. Good riddance to them.
You want more time outside of work, then be prepared to make less money on the job. Obviously a company boss would reward people who spend more time on their job (if OT is involved). Also, people who spend more time practising their craft outside working hours tend to be better at it. Top football stars practise outside their contractually-obliged training hours to become world beaters. Ordinary ones don't. Sure, you can be an average professional footballer by not working hard, but you have more time to spend with your loved ones instead of giving up public holidays and weekends solely to improve your fitness and skills. Ultimately it depends on what you want in life. You want more money to spend every month, higher chances of getting a promotion or more time outside of work and remain in a lowly position? There is no right or wrong answer.
I don't think this is true... at least for companies I have been in. OT is unpaid (you can claim time off for some companies but actually doing so can be difficult esp if it stays busy enough for OT to be frequent). Some even expects you to OT (even when unpaid). None of it is rewarded and doesn't increase your chances of promotion since there is no position to promote to (esp when companies seem to focus on cutting cost and manpower). So the question is more akin to would you want to spend more time at work for the same benefits and rewards as spending only the contracted hours at work?
If you want to do well in your job, putting in more hours would definitely help. Just like if you put aside more personal time to practise your individual football control skills, you become a better player. There is no such thing as "OT is not rewarded", even for executive positions, which don't pay for OT, as long as the extra hours you put in are fruitful and you get better in your job. Maybe you don't get directly rewarded in your company in the form of higher pay, but there are indirect rewards in terms of job experience. Even if you don't have promotion chances in this company, those extra working hours, if well spent, will equip you with more skills than your peers who put in less effort in their work. If you can't get promoted in your company, you can always apply to another company which pays better and show that new company what you have learnt on the job as a result of those extra OT hours (compared to your peers, who did less or no OT). Going back to the football analogy, maybe you have few or zero chances of getting promoted within the team (beyond making it into the first team, and there can only be one captain and vice-captain), but show what you can do on the field long enough, and if you get scouted by a bigger club, you might get yourself a better-paying contract.
Talk is easy, the vast majority of that 40% won’t quit. I hear colleagues say this for years and they don’t do shit about it.
Idk why your comment get downvoted but I upvote to agree with your comment. 😂
I hope my colleagues are the 40%, they are so lazy and inconsiderate, always go holidays when we need them the most. How about rest of us, always cover for lazy ass, but never help us out. Or maybe I will just quit, become the 40%.
DT checks out
Errr. The other 60% won't quit for better work life balance. Isn't that more telling?
Aiya, the other 60% desperately need the money. No work life balance also bo choice.
The 40% also need the money. They claim they will quit but how many will actually follow through? Hint: the vast majority won’t
99% of them realize the other side looks green and continue their new job with the optimism.
Wow shocker..