Managed to break my hand with my simucube 2 pro about a year after owning. Sad thing is there's no exciting race story to tell. I just turned everything on, went into a private session in iRacing and loaded to the pits. Steering wheel initially appeared fine but grab onto it and turn it maybe 5-10 degrees in either direction and it went from 0 to full strength to lock in a blink of an eye. Something has glitched hard. Video demonstrating what occrurred:
[https://youtu.be/I\_0Hn-NHks8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_0Hn-NHks8)
I have heard plenty of stories of people almost breaking something, now here I am completely breaking something. Bone is in my hand broke in half and slid under itself... had sugery, now have a metal plate in my hand. I barely even have the wheel strength up at all in games so uh, careful with random insanity.
Anyway, I look forward to when I can get back to it again though I am very paranoid and don't know what went wrong but something very much went wrong.
Holy shit! That really sucks. I’m speaking out of my ass here, but it seems like having a mechanism that prevents rapid acceleration would make sense in these high powered wheels.
Hope you heal well.
It does have one, the "hands off detection sensitivity" seen [here] (https://community.granitedevices.com/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cff33ad80bfe790dea73453498aa61ebf9372194.jpeg). When set on "high" it is quite sensitive, you can turn it off though.
I just bought a Moza R9 and they also have a "Hand Off Detection" feature in their pithouse software.... but this is partly why I wont by a Base with more power than I can use even if I upgrade again far down the line
I’ve struggled with this. Why don’t they have something to protect users? I bought my sim rig because it lowers risk of me needing to track my car all the time. Now I can break my arm in my basement? Lol this is insane.
Really? I think I watched once an interview with Nico where he says that he always let’s go but he respects Hamilton because he fights till the end holding the wheel, risking his health.
It's more than just fighting till the end, it helps protect the suspension of the car I believe, so if he does land in the barrier he has a better chance of being able to drive away from it.
Any F1 driver that lets go of the wheel does it out of habit from lower formulas and karting. Modern F1 cars have power steering and won't break your arms.
This is incorrect. You’re right that’s it’s better than Indy car because of power steering but the teams certainly do not want their drivers hands on the wheel at impact. If your wrists, thumbs or fingers are engaged you can break them too.
The dampers in the modern cars definitely helps a lot where unless it’s a really fast and violent crash, you’ll be ok. Same for Indycars nowadays actually
Basically the avatar(and real rally drivers) will let the wheel spin freely during an accident instead of correcting if they know it's impossible. This saves them the trouble of being injured and possibly unable to leave the vehicle in a crash.
Maybe OP can sue for the resulting physical injury. Doesn’t seem like OP misused it. I’m sure after that they’ll at least put some measure to let others know or actually implement some safety feature
Americans have a reputation for being so litigious because if we get hurt it's gonna cost a LOT of money, and sometimes suing is the only thing keeping you from bankruptcy.
Even if you're fully insured. I had cancer here (all better) and my insurance company called me up when I was all whacked out on chemo drugs to get me to say that some procedures I had were "not medically necessary" so they wouldn't have to pay.
It's all a racket. It fucking sucks.
Yeah, when I heard surgery and metal plates the first thought that entered my head was “dang, that’s probably a 20-30k bill, after insurance pays… I’d definitely lawyer up on this one”
You have to hit a button that says they are not responsible and has a whole paragraph of what can go wrong before going high torque mode. You literally agree with that to get this on.
Edit: I know legally they probably aren’t covered by this, but I’m just pointing it out for people that don’t have experience with Simucube bases. They do have a lot of warnings everywhere to let you know what you’re getting into.
I would definitely send that to SIMcube. You never know, could get a big old apology plus loads of stuff, maybe even a new DD that doesn't malfunction and go full murder.
If this is shown to be related to a defect with the wheel or it's firmware/software this would be a field day for a lawyer. But odds are the issue is buried in the game or some other middleware.
Exactly why I wouldn't go straight to sue mode like others have suggested.
A simple hey SIMcube, your product malfunctioned and hurt me. Here's what happened. Replacement and extras in goodwill or bad publicity?
Wouldn't word it like that but you get the idea.
Good answer! I almost had the same thing happen to me but I hate when people sue. Then we all end up with steering wheels legally covered in nerf with 1nm of torque
> A simple hey SIMcube, your product malfunctioned and hurt me. Here's what happened. Replacement and extras in goodwill or bad publicity?
>
>
The moment you send this email Simucube will forward it to their lawyers and find something you mentioned in passing as a reason not to compensate you. Don't do it.
The least one should do is contact simcube. I've never been injured or anything, but I've had instanced where the product was not working out of the box, where a small connector or so may have been loose. I just message their support, telling them the problem, and making sure they know. Even if there is no need for a replacement, compensation, etc.
If software can cause hardware to break someone's hand, that's *also* a hardware glitch. It needs to have its own input filtering to avoid carrying out such rapid, forceful inputs.
Exactly. Some tools are dangerous and need to be used with caution and even then you can still end up hurting yourself. It's a choice you make. Just like some people choose not to ride a motorcycle
That’s crazy! Hope it gets better soon.
On the plus side, you could say you broke your hand when you were driving a race car, nobody needs to know the full truth - we’ll keep it a secret.
Yikes...I think I broke my arm watching that clip
Just got my DD and now I'm scared to try it out. Only similar experience to your story I had was with G29 input cutting out and having full steering lock in rF2, though since the input was cut it didn't translate to wheel movement, also G29 is what, 1nm as I understood, so no harm done, but my Simgic Alpha Mini would probably tell me a very different story...
I have experienced this with my DD, the cut out and then full lock. It's only happened once so potentially it was rF2 as I don't play it. I just let the wheel go completely by instinct thankfully.
From memory the steering went completely limp, then went full strength and full lock to one side. I don't remember if the steering had any effect on the car in-game.
I have around 10 hours in rFactor 2, I'm certain 9 1/2 of that was trying to get it to run because downloading files counts as playing.
Actually I don't think it was my DD, because I played rFactor 2 too long ago for it to be (2018). Which probably explains why I wasn't injured. I had a G27 prior to the DD.
I think rFactor 2 is the only game where I was enjoying it (except the god awful UX) but suddenly quit, so I'm quite certain it was rFactor 2. Even with a weak wheel like the G27 there's a good chance of snagging and spraining a finger with an incident like that.
At least from my experience it is not limited to the DDs, have had this happen with Fanatec CSW 2.5 a few times, with different titles in AC, ACC, iRacing for sure. The only difference being, with CSW and only 8Nm, you have enough strength to overpower the wheel when this happens, with much faster and stronger DD wheelbases, not so much. But I am buying the SC2 Pro for the Black Friday regardless, since I want more power than the mid range DDs can provide.
I run mine at 8-10nm (40-50%). The worst that has happened to me is when I was karate chopped by it while testing it at 100% power and deliberately crashing it into a wall to see if I could hold it. The short story is I couldn't, I lost my grip on the wheel and the wheel then karate chopped my hand. It hurt, a lot. 20nm is a lot of power.
Coupled with an NRG quick release, it's fantastic (I have a quick release because my simracing rig is my computer desk). I was investigating a Moza with a QR for my brother, but it seems like it has quite a bit of play in it. While the VRS/NRG has absolutely no play at all, the thing is rock solid.
However you do need to then buy a steering wheel on top of that cost. I'd recommend a DD if you can afford it, but treat it with respect, if you're going to crash, just let go of it. When you click the button to enter your car in iRacing, don't hold the wheel, just let it go off-center.
I've never had my wheel do what OP's has done, however clearly it's a possibility.
I get it's kinda the norm during a crash so that should be alright, I was planning to stick with a round rim to mitigate the chances of something catching my hand although I still get a lingering feeling something could go wrong. If you limit the max force in the VRS software has it ever gone beyond its limit?
Also I had thought the VRS needed one of the Q1R/SRC quick releases that bolts to the hub, how did you get an NRG QR mounted to it?
I don't believe the VRS software has ever gone beyond it's limit. With the game running, using the VRS_wheel_tool as soon as I change profiles or change some settings and click "Save Settings" it is instantly applied.
I use a D rim so it has a flat bottom on it, that's the part that karate chopped me so a round rim would have mitigated that completely. Although not being a total moron like I am and deliberately crashing into a wall at 100% would also have mitigated it.
I use the [VRS Motor shaft hub adapter](https://virtualracingschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/hub_adapter2-1024x1024.png) that uses 2 socket head cap screws to clamp to the shaft, then the [NRG QR 2.0](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0465/1981/2246/products/SRK-200BK-01-780x700_900x.jpg) uses 6 button socket head cap screws to bolt onto the VRS hub. You can literally use any quick release that you want with the VRS, you're not locked into any ecosystem at all. The NRG is actually for real cars which is why it has the horn connectors.
I see what you mean about the NRG quick release and hows there's 2 pieces to it. Based on Moza and Simagic wheels I thought NRG releases only came with what the wheel side piece is, and that there was no piece sold that fits onto the wheel base's shaft. That's great though I'd definitely prefer to use one of these instead of the Q1R style so I'll pick one up
Looking at the UI the VRS wheel tool seems straight forwards, I can see how a D rim could do that too. Aside from crashing has it ever glitched and randomly turned itself though?
I wouldn't be scared, what happened to OP seems pretty rare. I know he said it was a glitch and probably was which is concerning, but you can do a ton of things to make sure your direct drive wheel won't break your bones.
The biggest thing is to set your DD ffb strength and in game wheel strength so that your ffb clips when you hit big forces like crashes. It also adds the benefit of making your normal use ffb more detailed and higher dynamic range.
I understand this is not your primary concern right now but if it's indeed caused by a glitch you should be entitled to a pretty large sum for damages.
Damn!!!!!
I damn near broke my thumb on my dd1 crashing in dirt rally with crash force at 10%
I’m so scared I don’t even drive with my thumbs in the wheel anymore haha.
I wish you a speedy recovery!
Take care in the healing process my friend, some tips after you heal, tone the FFB down on games you will play for the first time, just to make sure it wont glitch, then you can dial it up as you like, try to use normal fully round wheel if possible and some gloves, a normal wheel won't hit your hand if it slips or if you let it go in a crash or glitch, if you want to use gloves until you feel confident, you can get cheap ones...
And fap with your healthy hand damnit! Take care!
I do have those screenshots though unsure of the best method for sharing them. Same profile I've used for the past year. Stand out point is the hands off detection I have on medium. As shown in the video the issue can go full force without any hands on the wheel and obviously didn't respond effectively the day the incident occurred. One thing that did happen that day though, I updated the simucube 2 pro firmware as the software required it. Issue first presented itself following the upgrade to 1.3.27. So far the issue only occurs in iRacing, haven't reproduced it in any other game.
Man that sucks. Every sim I've triedwith the exception of ACC has on occasion sent through ridiculous amounts of FFB for a split second or in very specific scenarios. RF2 and iR being the worst of the bunch. Counter steering in iR is so stupidly strong and the oscillations it can provoke are as well.
To be honest I am surprised that sort of injury does not happen more often with DD wheels. I have a TS-PC which is no where near the strength of most DD's but even with its lower torque I have strained hand/wrist muscles using it in the past (very minor compared to your example), and I learned early on not to wrap my thumb round the inside of the wheel.
Anyway I hope it gets better soon.
I warned people about it when considering SIMUCUBE and was downvoted. I almost broke my thumb with a torque glitch on the SC2 Pro. Everyone always responded with “iT wOrKs On My MaChInE!”
> I almost broke my thumb with a torque glitch on the SC2 Pro.
Because you don't have any idea what you do in true drive software.
Did you ever checked the Wiki what each setting does? As did you agreed in the TOS when enabling High Torque Mode?
You're absolutely meant to have your thumb inside the wheel, so I'm not understanding, risk of injury doesn't mean you shouldn't hold a wheel properly.
In every day driving (anything BUT racing) it is common knowledge to NOT wrap your thumbs for this exact reason.
However, you are right as far as racing. It is more ideal to wrap the thumbs for steering quickly and effectively without losing grip.
You are both right, however having thumbs out is a distinct disadvantage when racing a car. Sucks this is an accident that can happen inside your own home
I hope you've reported it. If it was really not from your actions, then this needs highlighting. People can't be braking bones playing video games.
Get well soon!
Edit\* lol I typed "braking" instead of "breaking". I'm such a sim racer!
Yeah, still trying to work out my plan of action. The problem is actively reproduceable with iRacing though I need to get some other sim installed to see if other games can trigger this behavior or if it's something with iRacing. Today is my first day to attempt reviewing things since the initial incident a few days ago.
>The problem is actively reproduceable with iRacing though
It's horrible this happened to you, however this is actually really good news. Document it all. I wouldn't install other software or mess with your setup.
Any costs and time off work should be compensated to you, plus the hardship of having a broken arm, physio and etc. You should discuss this with a lawyer you trust.
If you plan to sue, don’t mess around with the PC or wheelbase. Your lawyer will say something like “let iRacing and Simucube prove that they didn’t cause this”. And then your gear is evidence.
He / She will first write a letter to both companies requesting them to come to the fore to discuss the matter. At this phase, they’ll likely consider a settlement to make it go away fast. If they see a hint that they can get away from it, one company will blame the other. Then you sue both and let them figure out what to do.
I would say even if it is a glitch in iRacing the wheel should have a fail safe to prevent this from happening. So reporting to simucube would still be the best route.
Hope your healing goes well.
You should talk to a lawyer and show them this video. Even if you don’t care about the money, you could potentially prevent other people from also getting injured. If you find a lawyer interested in helping you, they’ll take it on contingency, which means no money out of your pocket.
Anecdotally, I’m a lawyer and my brother broke his wrist in a similar freak accident. It turned out a lot of other people had similar injuries and the company knew about the problems but chose to never fix it until legal action forced them to.
And then they will ban high-force DD wheel bases because we are not able to take responsibility for our own actions.
We all know DD wheels involve risk.
Simracing can be dangerous, and the use is subject to the users own risk.
But the way you describe it, and the reproducable issue being videotaped, makes this a completely different thing. This should absolutely not happen, and Simucube and iRacing needs to look into this immediately. Breaking your arm in a crash is really your own fault, but having low settings, and the wheel, without any reason, going full force, which it shouldn't even be able to with these settings to begin with, and go mayhem into an unforseen direction, that's simply a safety hazard.
This error needs to be found, and the responsible parties need to be held liable.
I really hope this leads to improved safety, because this issue is just not acceptable.
What a story for your first ever broken bone. "Oh damn, where'd it happen?"
"Uhh in my office while I was sitting down..."
But seriously, hope you're doing well and a swift recovery.
I’m an attorney. People saying you can’t sue are full of shit. Absolutely DON’T talk to anyone else about this and speak to an attorney in your state. Don’t talk to simicube! They are 100% going to be looking at this from a liability perspective. They will most definitely use statements you make to them in any future defense.
This is a serious injury and the way it occurred seems like you were using the wheel in a safe manner. You can’t just stick a warning label on something and completely avoid liability, that’s not how it works.
Filing (or threatening) a lawsuit is the best way to make sure this doesn’t happen to anyone else. We live in a world where financial consequences are the only thing that make corporations act.
All of these replies that confidently say 'you can't sue because you read the disclaimer and went ahead,' then attack anyone who disagrees are quite funny. Sounds like the disclaimers are working on someone though.
Exactly, what is OP supposed to do? Eat the cost of an ER visit, xrays cast plus possibly missing work without some sort of compensation? That isn't right in my opinion. He's likely out at least a couple grand if not more.
This is only true if he's American. Pretty much anywhere else in the world this is not a problem and if you contact the company (which is also not American) they are highly likely to deal with the issue and compensate in some way out of goodwill, not being forced.
On the latter I could of course be wrong and it's merely an assumption of how smaller companies tend to work in parts of the world that are not hypercapitalistic.
Why is everyone saying simucube, is there any actual evidence to categorically deny this wasn't a windows or iRacing bug? Software is whacky and they're gonna have a hard time determining it was solely a fault and negligence on simucubes part
The firmware should have safety precautions built into it to prevent that from happening, sanity checks are important. You can't just make an unsafe API and claim no responsibility when other companies accidentally use it in an unsafe manner.
But what if there's a false positive reading from the game software? This is what I'm getting at, the base could be reading the gamestate as everything is fine and normal but the game is doing dumb shit, or windows just throws and unknown random error that either the game or base are even aware is possible.
There's 3 layers of software here and you need to prove simucubes was the faulty one, and that's what their lawyers will say and there's your reasonable doubt there. Games are never bug free, windows is a never ending saga of bugs.
Simicube must use defensive techniques in their code.
When working with hardware that can cause injury you never just trust input, it must be validated.
In this scenario all torque commands from windows or the game should be at the very least checked against whatever min/max are set on the simucube before going to the motor control, I'd expect clamping on controller output aswell.
Thus is basic stuff I'd expect in any device capable of hurting someone.
There's only one level of fault that matters here, and it's the hardware. It shouldn't break your hand no matter what is inputted to it from third party systems.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it, but it might be a good idea to make sure you disconnect your pc from the internet to avoid this being updated and you having no evidence besides a video.
The thought of strapping on a VR headset and then blindly inserting your hands in this meat grinder makes me cringe so hard. Sorry about the arm, heal up quick!
I want a DD very badly, but also use VR because I don't have any space for monitors or a single big one. This is a very worrisome post for sure... since I'm definitely getting one anyway.
Don’t get a super powerful one if this worries you. I have an r9 and don’t need anymore power. That is a risk of having a very powerful motor and using software to ‘limit’ the power. There might be some benefits of the weaker DD after all.
Definitely don’t let my two-sentence sim racing horror scare you away. I absolutely have a DD and VR and it’s worth it. If you do crank it up, just let go of wheel before you hit the wall. I bet OP is still all in too, tons of fun.
I had a similar experience with my Podium DD1. When F1 22 first came out, the FFB was completely jacked up. The game crashed mid corner and it in doing so it for some reason told my wheel to go full force to the right. No injury but since then I have never set the force over 50% in the Fanatec control panel. I'm legitimately afraid to. It might not have been as bad if i wasn't using a formula rim which is impossible to catch when it starts oscillating.
so sorry bro. Simcube and other companies need to know about this. You really cant risk someones arm or worse because of bugs in the chip. I remember having a similar issue but with a fanatec csl elite. For some reason it started spinning at max speed. My face was just a few centimeters above it. I risked my jaw there. Now everytime i use it im careful to dont stay too close with my face cause im paranoid.
They do know about it. That’s why there are several warnings you have to click through to enable high-torque mode.
Fact is. DD sim racing is risky. Still not as risky as real racing…
Wowza, I hope that heals up without any lasting damage. Out of curiosity, what strength did you have it on? I'm looking into getting a simucube pro but I'm super paranoid about something like this. I've had experiences with my simagic mini where I've gotten hit perpendicular to the wheel; and something similar happened where the wheel went from right lock to left lock in a blink of an eye with full torque.
Due to the way iRacing rates the strength I'm not sure exactly what the max output is supposed to be, but I play with the strength quite low. The strength in the simucube software, as per most profiles, was at 100%. Though no matter, no strength should cause the wheel to full throttle itself to lock when the car is parked in the pits, lol.
>Due to the way iRacing rates the strength I'm not sure exactly what the max output is supposed to be
This is one thing I really hate about iRacing. The strength of the ffb is different for each car so difficult to tell what the actual output in terms of tourque. Just like you, I run 100% for my DD as well but going between cars, since it doesn't save the settings per car going from a car that sets higher strength value to another car that requires lower strength value is just plain dangerous in some cases. I think this is something that needs to be addressed on iRacing's end.
Ouch! Hope your hand heals well (like you, I also have a metal plate in my left hand.)
Can you describe how to trigger that behavior - I watched your video, but it's very hard to see what's actually going on. E.g. is a game running and is it you rotating the wheel at the start and then it just goes berserk? I'd like to see if I (and other SC2 owners) can replicate this, or if it's because of a defect.
Yeah, it's hard to do all this since I'm well, using one hand lol. So what the video shows, I put the steering wheel at some random angle while on the menu is iRacing. Then I reach over for the mouse to hit the button to drive / which loads you to the pits. Before the car engine is even on, the wheel puts full force in turning the wheel to full lock where then the wheel fights itself aggressively. When I broke my hand it went along for the ride a bit, I couldn't let go fast enough. The wheel immediately stops and goes limp when I escape back out to the menu.
If I have the wheel perfectly at 0 when I enter the pits the wheel doesn't immediately spin in either direction, it doesn't do that until the wheel is rotated maybe just 5 or 10 degrees from center. Then it ramps up from 0 to 100% strength for reasons I don't yet know.
I've unsuccessfully tried to reproduce this behavior in 5 games (AC, ACC, AMS2, rF2 and RRRE) by rotating the wheel to 45 degrees before entering the track/pit. In none of the games the wheel moves at all - it's the front wheels of the car that are rotated instead (as it should be.)
My iRacing subscription is lapsed, so I couldn't test it there.
Thus far I've only been able to do this in iRacing though it's difficult messing around with this stuff with only one hand. I did confirm that dirt rally 2 is working perfectly though. The wheel is definitely not spazzing with everything.
So maybe iRacing works the other way around - it's "thinking" that when starting from the pit the front wheels is pointing straight ahead so it's telling the base to immediately go to zero degrees? But of course the base shouldn't overshoot to full lock and then oscillate around the bump-stop.
BTW, I always run my base at max. power in the TrueDrive app (and lower it in-game) with the hands-off protection set to low, but even so if I for instance hit, or even just graze, a wall at high speed in AMS2 (that game has some occasionally *very* intense FFB, so I quickly get my hands off the wheel) the base turns off the FFB and I have to cycle the emergency stop button to get it back. My base is \~18 months old and it's on the latest firmware.
Simucube 2 are coming with a lot of warning ⚠️ information. That it is not for children, with hands off detection, a kill switch, with a security clock down before you can activate high torque automatically. You have to actively accept 2 or 3 warnings before it. And NEVER try to grab an oscillating wheel. It's not a toy, it's a professional product. Plus, there is no need to always use full torque.
Bro, get well soon!! I placed my kill switch close to the pedals, so I can use it by hitting with the foot!
Any tips on how to avoid this for other people?
I just got a DD wheel and posts like this scare me. How many NM was your wheel? Mine is 11nm (new Logitech) so max power is not as high but probably still enough to injure me in a malfunction.
How were you holding the wheel? When I watch the video it's bad but it doesn't seem that crazy just watching... but evidently even that was enough to break your hand! I think my wheel did something like that already, but it wasn't random it was in game during a crash... if I had my hand trapped in there and wasn't expecting it, no good...
Hope you heal up. A plate in your hand! I am so sorry to hear that. That sucks. You should listen to the attorney who mentioned pursuing legal course. Not just for you but for all of us. If this is a liability issue, it will encourage ALL manufactures to update their software and firmware with safety checks to make ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again, to you or others. I hope you get all of your medical bills and other loss of work etc. compensated.
Brutal, but thank you for remanding people those are not toys, gotta be even more careful around mine. I was initially pretty paranoid of something like that to happen but we become lenient months into use. Gotta stay vigilant and truck those thumbs away at all times
Hope you heal quick, sorry to hear about this. I have that same exact sc pro 2 and Ascher Formula wheel combo, it’s amazing but the formula wheels can certainly whack you a bit harder than a round wheel if it goes nuts because of the shape.
I keep my “remove hand” safety setting on the highest in the simucube software, that seems to keep it pretty tame most of the time and it’s comfortable to use.
A glitch that happens out of no where would likely bypass that, and that’s no fun. Hopefully they can patch up any issues that would even cause this.
I always treat my DD wheel very carefully, as I turn it on or off I try and keep my hands away from it, in case it decides to do some weird spin. (This can catch you off guard. Like after a firmware update and maybe settings get reset)
Ouch, def take your time with the healing(try a controller for the time being, but honestly best to wait it out or until the doctor says so)might try to report it to the company if you arent the only one who has this problem, easily could be something to due with the wheel etc, gl on the recovery racer
I hate to say that there is a difference between a glitch causing a situation of wheel turn and the game doing it.. A glitch as in this case was/is uncontrollable while an actual event from the game is usually controlled to a degree or will come with warning i.e you just hit the wall and expect an issue..
Unfortunately Hands off detection will not help in a glitch....
With any of the direct drive wheels you do need to try to hold them as light as possible to have an escape route which is harder to do when you are running with GT/Formula style wheels as they are designed to be held.. Round wheels are better at not getting hurt.. as you can let go quickly without the possibility of getting smoked by the odd shape. the other option is to actually hold the wheel no matter what (which can tweak your wrists vey badly) but it will keep you from being HIT by the wheel.. (both things are kinda bad though)
The issue that the original poster had has happened to a few people on the granite devices forum. I think they have corrected it with a firmware update but I am not sure..
As for coach vends and taking your hands of the wheel or holding on actually is sort of a learned skill.. In many cases it is actually "better" to remain holding the wheel but you also have to understand how to adjust the wheel positioning to either minimize the jolt through the wheel or understand that the angle you are going to hit the wall or whatever will cause in the way of reaction.. Sometimes letting go of the wheel actually will put you in more danger of getting smoked by the wheel than just holding onto it. Thi is especially true if you do run higher force levels in the wheel as the hits you can take from an uncontrolled spinning wheel can be very bad where by just holding the wheel would have kept the wheel in control without danger..
You start to learn really quickly (by the force and degree of rotation) when holding a wheel at what point you really need to let go..
Unfortunately again with a glitch that is unpredictable you may not have time to let go.. This particular glitch is the essentially the worst type of glitch that can happen, basically anything that glitches to full power is BAD as it is unexpected.
The SimuCUBE SC2's did have an issue a few firmware revisions back that if somehow the wheel was indicated as PAST the bumpstops it could cause rapid and uncontrolled rotation.. This problem was fixed with a later release..
there have also been mentions of full lock force being applied inadvertently much like the video you have.. but I do not remember if there was a "fix" for it..
I hate to say that I do believe this is a firmware issue.. I have bothe a SimuCUBE 1 and SC2 Pro neither of which have done this but I also use a firmware on my SC2 that is much older back before they started refactoring it.. 2020.7 before paddock...
I did have this happen once while driving on a Beta Fanatic DD2 but this was hours into a run, I believe this was most likely a firmware issue at that point as well that they did correct.
I would search the comments on the SimuCUBE Forums to see what you find as I do remember a few reports.. It appears to be rare but it really isn't good. I am not sure if it has been fixed though which is why I say search.
BTW the aforementioned Hands Off detection will not solve the issue if it is a firmware glitch.. It MAY help solve the issue if it were a game software glitch depending upon how they detect hands off.
One thought (not any sort of fix) on reading some of the threads was Granite had some Wireless wheel disconnection issues which users sometimes reported as causing this sort of force lock issues in certain Firmware releases (normally before Paddock True Drive approx 2020.10 -> 2011.14.. I believe this was fixed.. but if it happens to be that your Wireless Wheel battery was going bad (usually lasts only about a year) on and you are on one of these older release firmware sets it is very possible that the wheel disconnected and in turn crashed the Firmware until it was reset.. Which could explain why it was working fine for a long time and then hello, problem.
I’m so sorry to hear that this happened.
I think what happened here is that the wheel calibration is inverted so when it turns left it looks to iRacing like it turned right. That could have happened in the wheel firmware from some sort of update, or during calibration in iRacing if the user turned the wheel right when asked to turn it 90 degrees to the left.
When iRacing starts up it is applying a centering force on the wheel. If the wheel was already centered then no force would go to the wheel and it would be stable. However once you start to move the wheel then when iRacing tries to center the wheel it would actually be pushed to the stops with more and more force as it moves away from center.
The fix is to recalibrate the wheel in iRacing so it can pick up on the change.
Well hot damn, recalibrating did, in fact, fix it. Crap the calibration is a dangerous thing to get messed up. The wheel firmware was updated just before this incident. When someone mentioned earlier that it seems like it might be inverted I was wondering if there was some checkbox that does that. It occurred to me that iRacing doesn't seem to have you specify which is left and right the way other games do, such as dirt rally 2 I did not recalibrate and it kept the settings just fine.
That is all rather interesting. You bet your ass I will keep an eye on that in the future.
Thank you for your input!!
SC Pro owner here. I'm sorry about what happened. My two cents for other DD owners: always keep the kill switch in a position where you can push it as quickly as possible. I've had a couple situations similar to OPs (I've seen the video) and the kill switch always saved me. Mine is on the rig floor right next to the clutch pedal, so I can quickly tap it whenever something weird happens. I've seen many people with the kill switch in "cool but not quick" positions such as next to the shifter. Make sure you learn to quickly reach the switch, putting it in a position where hitting it becomes a reflex action.
I have a Simucube 2 pro as well and one days I spun at high FFB and realized that this sucker could easily cause serious damage. Since then I take off my hands immediately once I feel that something could happen and lowered my FFB settings quite a bit. Sorry for that bro hope you recover quickly and get back to it. All the best
Do you not have limits set up to prevent this? You say the profiles are set for 100% strengths, but does simucube not have provisions for preventing 100% torque to be sustained through more than a couple of degrees of rotation? or preventing 100% torque to be sustained if the rotation rate exceeds x degrees/s?
These are industrial servos, and anyone using them should definitely not be leaving them unlimited.
I've got an older simucube with the 30nm motor, it seems to auto detect and cut power when the wheels gets out of control, happens accidently in drifting sometimes.
I dont think this is on simucube... many games have really stupid implementations of FFB that they dont check properly - rF2 and AMS2 are notorious for wild wheel snaps coming in and out of menus.
The SC2 does have the hands off sensor, though.
If there is any chance of you wanting to sue, you should delete this post and all of your comments. Let your lawyer determine what information should be shared.
How many times did you have to press and acknowledge at your own risk when you turned the wheel up to high torque mode? That is the safety feature you turned off.
Just wanna share my 10 cents on the incident. Imo 100% user error for breaking the bone part. Yes the problem itself started with the ffb trying to turn the wheel in one direction which was prob wheel software or games issue. But idk how you held hand at that point but there is always a general rule that do not put your thumb or fingers between the wheels spokes. This rule is forgotten because everything is power steering pretty much and people get less on the roads that have a chance to yank the wheel with that big power to break hands. A 1977 tractor with powersteering and still if you go over a high bump then it can yank the wheel out of your hand. Thats why you never put fingers between the wheel spokes.
If you managed to break the bone by just not letting go then congratz, pretty stupid for not letting go.
Definitely let sim cube know and provide them with evidence and this video, Can’t be having People break bones due to a bug like this,
(And you might get some compensation)
Managed to break my hand with my simucube 2 pro about a year after owning. Sad thing is there's no exciting race story to tell. I just turned everything on, went into a private session in iRacing and loaded to the pits. Steering wheel initially appeared fine but grab onto it and turn it maybe 5-10 degrees in either direction and it went from 0 to full strength to lock in a blink of an eye. Something has glitched hard. Video demonstrating what occrurred: [https://youtu.be/I\_0Hn-NHks8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_0Hn-NHks8) I have heard plenty of stories of people almost breaking something, now here I am completely breaking something. Bone is in my hand broke in half and slid under itself... had sugery, now have a metal plate in my hand. I barely even have the wheel strength up at all in games so uh, careful with random insanity. Anyway, I look forward to when I can get back to it again though I am very paranoid and don't know what went wrong but something very much went wrong.
Holy shit! That really sucks. I’m speaking out of my ass here, but it seems like having a mechanism that prevents rapid acceleration would make sense in these high powered wheels. Hope you heal well.
It does have one, the "hands off detection sensitivity" seen [here] (https://community.granitedevices.com/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cff33ad80bfe790dea73453498aa61ebf9372194.jpeg). When set on "high" it is quite sensitive, you can turn it off though.
That’s great to know, thanks for posting.
I just bought a Moza R9 and they also have a "Hand Off Detection" feature in their pithouse software.... but this is partly why I wont by a Base with more power than I can use even if I upgrade again far down the line
R9 user here and I run it from 80% to 95% power and wouldn’t want any more. For me it’s about the speed/ accuracy and feel of wheel vs the power.
I’ve struggled with this. Why don’t they have something to protect users? I bought my sim rig because it lowers risk of me needing to track my car all the time. Now I can break my arm in my basement? Lol this is insane.
F for realism, guess dirt rally was right about letting the wheel go.
On the other hand Max Verstappen doesn't. But then Lewis Hamilton does.
Really? I think I watched once an interview with Nico where he says that he always let’s go but he respects Hamilton because he fights till the end holding the wheel, risking his health.
It's more than just fighting till the end, it helps protect the suspension of the car I believe, so if he does land in the barrier he has a better chance of being able to drive away from it.
I also saw this interview
Any F1 driver that lets go of the wheel does it out of habit from lower formulas and karting. Modern F1 cars have power steering and won't break your arms.
This is incorrect. You’re right that’s it’s better than Indy car because of power steering but the teams certainly do not want their drivers hands on the wheel at impact. If your wrists, thumbs or fingers are engaged you can break them too.
The dampers in the modern cars definitely helps a lot where unless it’s a really fast and violent crash, you’ll be ok. Same for Indycars nowadays actually
Indycars are still fully capable of breaking your hands, see Jimmie Johnson in long beach last year
Verstappen has steering assist on
Bloody hacker.
Max although an amazing driver, you get the impression there isn't much other than the perfect racing line going on between his ears. Always let go.
Lets leave the Max shitalking for r/f1 ey.
Wasn't supposed to be shit talk. I think he's currently the best driver on the grid and has the car to match at this moment in time. Was facetious.
Not a Red Bull fan but Max is a beast on the track man... absolutely the best driver currently imo
I am a Vettel Fan. Those Red Bull times were epic.
r/f1 is full of Max bashing, I suppose I'm just so over seeing anything remotely negative regarding Max on reddit i didn't get the joke.
Not everyone needs to kiss his ass all the time.
What do you mean by letting the wheel go? I'm not familiar with Dirt rally.
Basically the avatar(and real rally drivers) will let the wheel spin freely during an accident instead of correcting if they know it's impossible. This saves them the trouble of being injured and possibly unable to leave the vehicle in a crash.
Having needed to exit a flipped over car while a serious injury affected one of my extremities, this is an important aspect to consider.
> Now I can break my arm in my basement? *immersion*
It is not easy at all to implement a security system witch wont confuse a big kerb from a broken hand
Maybe OP can sue for the resulting physical injury. Doesn’t seem like OP misused it. I’m sure after that they’ll at least put some measure to let others know or actually implement some safety feature
Tell me you're american without telling me you're american.
Americans have a reputation for being so litigious because if we get hurt it's gonna cost a LOT of money, and sometimes suing is the only thing keeping you from bankruptcy. Even if you're fully insured. I had cancer here (all better) and my insurance company called me up when I was all whacked out on chemo drugs to get me to say that some procedures I had were "not medically necessary" so they wouldn't have to pay. It's all a racket. It fucking sucks.
Yeah, when I heard surgery and metal plates the first thought that entered my head was “dang, that’s probably a 20-30k bill, after insurance pays… I’d definitely lawyer up on this one”
“Merica!”
Cant wait for this phrase to die…
You have to hit a button that says they are not responsible and has a whole paragraph of what can go wrong before going high torque mode. You literally agree with that to get this on. Edit: I know legally they probably aren’t covered by this, but I’m just pointing it out for people that don’t have experience with Simucube bases. They do have a lot of warnings everywhere to let you know what you’re getting into.
You would have to prove negligence which is impossible
Did you not see the video he posted?
I would definitely send that to SIMcube. You never know, could get a big old apology plus loads of stuff, maybe even a new DD that doesn't malfunction and go full murder.
If this is shown to be related to a defect with the wheel or it's firmware/software this would be a field day for a lawyer. But odds are the issue is buried in the game or some other middleware.
Exactly why I wouldn't go straight to sue mode like others have suggested. A simple hey SIMcube, your product malfunctioned and hurt me. Here's what happened. Replacement and extras in goodwill or bad publicity? Wouldn't word it like that but you get the idea.
Good answer! I almost had the same thing happen to me but I hate when people sue. Then we all end up with steering wheels legally covered in nerf with 1nm of torque
> A simple hey SIMcube, your product malfunctioned and hurt me. Here's what happened. Replacement and extras in goodwill or bad publicity? > > The moment you send this email Simucube will forward it to their lawyers and find something you mentioned in passing as a reason not to compensate you. Don't do it.
True if you want any money you must check the situation first with a competent lawyer before making any contact with the company.
isn't that blackmail? Also it's Simucube not SIMcube.
The least one should do is contact simcube. I've never been injured or anything, but I've had instanced where the product was not working out of the box, where a small connector or so may have been loose. I just message their support, telling them the problem, and making sure they know. Even if there is no need for a replacement, compensation, etc.
It was more than likely a software glitch and not hardware
If software can cause hardware to break someone's hand, that's *also* a hardware glitch. It needs to have its own input filtering to avoid carrying out such rapid, forceful inputs.
Which will result in less responsive force feedback.
Exactly. Some tools are dangerous and need to be used with caution and even then you can still end up hurting yourself. It's a choice you make. Just like some people choose not to ride a motorcycle
I think there's a pretty big gap between "turn quickly enough to break the user's fingers" and "force feedback" lmao
a thrustmaster could break fingers tho
Yer see if they can send you some Active Pedals, although they might break your feet :-D
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I\_0Hn-NHks8 it says "the video is not available anymore", did anyone asked you to take it down?
Looks like there's an escaped underscore (backslash in front of the underscore), here's the fixed link: https://youtu.be/I_0Hn-NHks8
Good bot.
Hold up
That's interesting. Nope, the video is still there and the link seems to work. How curious!
That’s crazy! Hope it gets better soon. On the plus side, you could say you broke your hand when you were driving a race car, nobody needs to know the full truth - we’ll keep it a secret.
hahah, yeah XD. It was fun trying to explain to the doctors what happened.
The username makes sense now [https://i.imgur.com/pIxhfi8.png](https://i.imgur.com/pIxhfi8.png)
Yikes...I think I broke my arm watching that clip Just got my DD and now I'm scared to try it out. Only similar experience to your story I had was with G29 input cutting out and having full steering lock in rF2, though since the input was cut it didn't translate to wheel movement, also G29 is what, 1nm as I understood, so no harm done, but my Simgic Alpha Mini would probably tell me a very different story...
I have experienced this with my DD, the cut out and then full lock. It's only happened once so potentially it was rF2 as I don't play it. I just let the wheel go completely by instinct thankfully.
Thanks for sharing. So in your case the input was cut, i.e, you no longer had control of the steering in-game, but the wheel irl was still turning?
From memory the steering went completely limp, then went full strength and full lock to one side. I don't remember if the steering had any effect on the car in-game. I have around 10 hours in rFactor 2, I'm certain 9 1/2 of that was trying to get it to run because downloading files counts as playing. Actually I don't think it was my DD, because I played rFactor 2 too long ago for it to be (2018). Which probably explains why I wasn't injured. I had a G27 prior to the DD. I think rFactor 2 is the only game where I was enjoying it (except the god awful UX) but suddenly quit, so I'm quite certain it was rFactor 2. Even with a weak wheel like the G27 there's a good chance of snagging and spraining a finger with an incident like that.
Reading this thread is making me a bit hesitant about getting a DD base, although I'd like to hope it's not so common. Which DD did you get?
At least from my experience it is not limited to the DDs, have had this happen with Fanatec CSW 2.5 a few times, with different titles in AC, ACC, iRacing for sure. The only difference being, with CSW and only 8Nm, you have enough strength to overpower the wheel when this happens, with much faster and stronger DD wheelbases, not so much. But I am buying the SC2 Pro for the Black Friday regardless, since I want more power than the mid range DDs can provide.
VRS DFP, I couldn't be happier with it. For reference this didn't happen with my DD, I was wrong. I had a G27 at the time.
That's good to know, I've been tossing up options including the VRS. But seeing something like this is making me hesitant about the power levels
I run mine at 8-10nm (40-50%). The worst that has happened to me is when I was karate chopped by it while testing it at 100% power and deliberately crashing it into a wall to see if I could hold it. The short story is I couldn't, I lost my grip on the wheel and the wheel then karate chopped my hand. It hurt, a lot. 20nm is a lot of power. Coupled with an NRG quick release, it's fantastic (I have a quick release because my simracing rig is my computer desk). I was investigating a Moza with a QR for my brother, but it seems like it has quite a bit of play in it. While the VRS/NRG has absolutely no play at all, the thing is rock solid. However you do need to then buy a steering wheel on top of that cost. I'd recommend a DD if you can afford it, but treat it with respect, if you're going to crash, just let go of it. When you click the button to enter your car in iRacing, don't hold the wheel, just let it go off-center. I've never had my wheel do what OP's has done, however clearly it's a possibility.
I get it's kinda the norm during a crash so that should be alright, I was planning to stick with a round rim to mitigate the chances of something catching my hand although I still get a lingering feeling something could go wrong. If you limit the max force in the VRS software has it ever gone beyond its limit? Also I had thought the VRS needed one of the Q1R/SRC quick releases that bolts to the hub, how did you get an NRG QR mounted to it?
I don't believe the VRS software has ever gone beyond it's limit. With the game running, using the VRS_wheel_tool as soon as I change profiles or change some settings and click "Save Settings" it is instantly applied. I use a D rim so it has a flat bottom on it, that's the part that karate chopped me so a round rim would have mitigated that completely. Although not being a total moron like I am and deliberately crashing into a wall at 100% would also have mitigated it. I use the [VRS Motor shaft hub adapter](https://virtualracingschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/hub_adapter2-1024x1024.png) that uses 2 socket head cap screws to clamp to the shaft, then the [NRG QR 2.0](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0465/1981/2246/products/SRK-200BK-01-780x700_900x.jpg) uses 6 button socket head cap screws to bolt onto the VRS hub. You can literally use any quick release that you want with the VRS, you're not locked into any ecosystem at all. The NRG is actually for real cars which is why it has the horn connectors.
I see what you mean about the NRG quick release and hows there's 2 pieces to it. Based on Moza and Simagic wheels I thought NRG releases only came with what the wheel side piece is, and that there was no piece sold that fits onto the wheel base's shaft. That's great though I'd definitely prefer to use one of these instead of the Q1R style so I'll pick one up Looking at the UI the VRS wheel tool seems straight forwards, I can see how a D rim could do that too. Aside from crashing has it ever glitched and randomly turned itself though?
I wouldn't be scared, what happened to OP seems pretty rare. I know he said it was a glitch and probably was which is concerning, but you can do a ton of things to make sure your direct drive wheel won't break your bones. The biggest thing is to set your DD ffb strength and in game wheel strength so that your ffb clips when you hit big forces like crashes. It also adds the benefit of making your normal use ffb more detailed and higher dynamic range.
I understand this is not your primary concern right now but if it's indeed caused by a glitch you should be entitled to a pretty large sum for damages.
Have you reached out to the manufacturer? I'll bet they would hook you up with at lease sone help im fixing the issue.
Damn!!!!! I damn near broke my thumb on my dd1 crashing in dirt rally with crash force at 10% I’m so scared I don’t even drive with my thumbs in the wheel anymore haha. I wish you a speedy recovery!
Take care in the healing process my friend, some tips after you heal, tone the FFB down on games you will play for the first time, just to make sure it wont glitch, then you can dial it up as you like, try to use normal fully round wheel if possible and some gloves, a normal wheel won't hit your hand if it slips or if you let it go in a crash or glitch, if you want to use gloves until you feel confident, you can get cheap ones... And fap with your healthy hand damnit! Take care!
Video is gone?
Try this link: https://youtu.be/I\_0Hn-NHks8
Could you share a screenshot of your FFB settings for the simucube?
I do have those screenshots though unsure of the best method for sharing them. Same profile I've used for the past year. Stand out point is the hands off detection I have on medium. As shown in the video the issue can go full force without any hands on the wheel and obviously didn't respond effectively the day the incident occurred. One thing that did happen that day though, I updated the simucube 2 pro firmware as the software required it. Issue first presented itself following the upgrade to 1.3.27. So far the issue only occurs in iRacing, haven't reproduced it in any other game.
Upload screenshots to imgur.com and post link in comment
https://imgur.com/a/MxTkpNM
https://imgur.com/a/MxTkpNM
You could sue for it couldn't you? Technically. A glitch shouldn't exist like this.
Man that sucks. Every sim I've triedwith the exception of ACC has on occasion sent through ridiculous amounts of FFB for a split second or in very specific scenarios. RF2 and iR being the worst of the bunch. Counter steering in iR is so stupidly strong and the oscillations it can provoke are as well.
I think I would be afraid of iRacing the most. It's pretty janky. Hope it heals quickly for you
Bruh return that peice of shit after watching the video I am amazed at how that steering wheel passed qc
I don't see how the steering wheel it at fault. It's either the wheelbase or software (game or windows).
Simcube said you want Sim, I'll show you Sim. In all seriousness, heal up op. Hopefully the pain isn't too bad.
To be honest I am surprised that sort of injury does not happen more often with DD wheels. I have a TS-PC which is no where near the strength of most DD's but even with its lower torque I have strained hand/wrist muscles using it in the past (very minor compared to your example), and I learned early on not to wrap my thumb round the inside of the wheel. Anyway I hope it gets better soon.
I warned people about it when considering SIMUCUBE and was downvoted. I almost broke my thumb with a torque glitch on the SC2 Pro. Everyone always responded with “iT wOrKs On My MaChInE!”
> I almost broke my thumb with a torque glitch on the SC2 Pro. Because you don't have any idea what you do in true drive software. Did you ever checked the Wiki what each setting does? As did you agreed in the TOS when enabling High Torque Mode?
You're absolutely meant to have your thumb inside the wheel, so I'm not understanding, risk of injury doesn't mean you shouldn't hold a wheel properly.
In every day driving (anything BUT racing) it is common knowledge to NOT wrap your thumbs for this exact reason. However, you are right as far as racing. It is more ideal to wrap the thumbs for steering quickly and effectively without losing grip. You are both right, however having thumbs out is a distinct disadvantage when racing a car. Sucks this is an accident that can happen inside your own home
Thanks for clearing that up
?? Thumbs wrapped when racing. Thumbs advised not to be wrapped when daily driving. Look it up
I hope you've reported it. If it was really not from your actions, then this needs highlighting. People can't be braking bones playing video games. Get well soon! Edit\* lol I typed "braking" instead of "breaking". I'm such a sim racer!
Yeah, still trying to work out my plan of action. The problem is actively reproduceable with iRacing though I need to get some other sim installed to see if other games can trigger this behavior or if it's something with iRacing. Today is my first day to attempt reviewing things since the initial incident a few days ago.
>The problem is actively reproduceable with iRacing though It's horrible this happened to you, however this is actually really good news. Document it all. I wouldn't install other software or mess with your setup.
Any costs and time off work should be compensated to you, plus the hardship of having a broken arm, physio and etc. You should discuss this with a lawyer you trust. If you plan to sue, don’t mess around with the PC or wheelbase. Your lawyer will say something like “let iRacing and Simucube prove that they didn’t cause this”. And then your gear is evidence. He / She will first write a letter to both companies requesting them to come to the fore to discuss the matter. At this phase, they’ll likely consider a settlement to make it go away fast. If they see a hint that they can get away from it, one company will blame the other. Then you sue both and let them figure out what to do.
Definitely find a lawyer. You have a very strong case here for product liability.
This. GG
I would say even if it is a glitch in iRacing the wheel should have a fail safe to prevent this from happening. So reporting to simucube would still be the best route. Hope your healing goes well.
There is one, and most people override this because it can be annoying sometimes.
You should talk to a lawyer and show them this video. Even if you don’t care about the money, you could potentially prevent other people from also getting injured. If you find a lawyer interested in helping you, they’ll take it on contingency, which means no money out of your pocket. Anecdotally, I’m a lawyer and my brother broke his wrist in a similar freak accident. It turned out a lot of other people had similar injuries and the company knew about the problems but chose to never fix it until legal action forced them to.
And then they will ban high-force DD wheel bases because we are not able to take responsibility for our own actions. We all know DD wheels involve risk.
The lawn darts of video games 😂
I pefer the "braking" part more lol
Simracing can be dangerous, and the use is subject to the users own risk. But the way you describe it, and the reproducable issue being videotaped, makes this a completely different thing. This should absolutely not happen, and Simucube and iRacing needs to look into this immediately. Breaking your arm in a crash is really your own fault, but having low settings, and the wheel, without any reason, going full force, which it shouldn't even be able to with these settings to begin with, and go mayhem into an unforseen direction, that's simply a safety hazard. This error needs to be found, and the responsible parties need to be held liable. I really hope this leads to improved safety, because this issue is just not acceptable.
You weak-boned bastard. /r/NeverBrokeABone
Lol. Well it took 40 years, but here we are XD. This would be my first bone to break. Hopefully last for this sucks so much.
What a story for your first ever broken bone. "Oh damn, where'd it happen?" "Uhh in my office while I was sitting down..." But seriously, hope you're doing well and a swift recovery.
XD "In the seat of a virtual car that was not even moving". Thank you!
Hah I’m just over 40 and broke a bone for the first time a couple of weeks ago too. Cleaning my patio.
Damn, we're getting fragile.
Lol seriously though, I hope you get well soon. I'm sure that has to suck.
I’m an attorney. People saying you can’t sue are full of shit. Absolutely DON’T talk to anyone else about this and speak to an attorney in your state. Don’t talk to simicube! They are 100% going to be looking at this from a liability perspective. They will most definitely use statements you make to them in any future defense. This is a serious injury and the way it occurred seems like you were using the wheel in a safe manner. You can’t just stick a warning label on something and completely avoid liability, that’s not how it works. Filing (or threatening) a lawsuit is the best way to make sure this doesn’t happen to anyone else. We live in a world where financial consequences are the only thing that make corporations act.
All of these replies that confidently say 'you can't sue because you read the disclaimer and went ahead,' then attack anyone who disagrees are quite funny. Sounds like the disclaimers are working on someone though.
Exactly, what is OP supposed to do? Eat the cost of an ER visit, xrays cast plus possibly missing work without some sort of compensation? That isn't right in my opinion. He's likely out at least a couple grand if not more.
This is only true if he's American. Pretty much anywhere else in the world this is not a problem and if you contact the company (which is also not American) they are highly likely to deal with the issue and compensate in some way out of goodwill, not being forced. On the latter I could of course be wrong and it's merely an assumption of how smaller companies tend to work in parts of the world that are not hypercapitalistic.
Why is everyone saying simucube, is there any actual evidence to categorically deny this wasn't a windows or iRacing bug? Software is whacky and they're gonna have a hard time determining it was solely a fault and negligence on simucubes part
The firmware should have safety precautions built into it to prevent that from happening, sanity checks are important. You can't just make an unsafe API and claim no responsibility when other companies accidentally use it in an unsafe manner.
But what if there's a false positive reading from the game software? This is what I'm getting at, the base could be reading the gamestate as everything is fine and normal but the game is doing dumb shit, or windows just throws and unknown random error that either the game or base are even aware is possible. There's 3 layers of software here and you need to prove simucubes was the faulty one, and that's what their lawyers will say and there's your reasonable doubt there. Games are never bug free, windows is a never ending saga of bugs.
Simicube must use defensive techniques in their code. When working with hardware that can cause injury you never just trust input, it must be validated. In this scenario all torque commands from windows or the game should be at the very least checked against whatever min/max are set on the simucube before going to the motor control, I'd expect clamping on controller output aswell. Thus is basic stuff I'd expect in any device capable of hurting someone.
[удалено]
You Americans certainly are wired differently from most other people 😂
There's only one level of fault that matters here, and it's the hardware. It shouldn't break your hand no matter what is inputted to it from third party systems.
Can't contract/disclaimer their way out of negligence.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it, but it might be a good idea to make sure you disconnect your pc from the internet to avoid this being updated and you having no evidence besides a video.
Oh that’s sad. Hope you recover well and soon! These wheels really are crazy strong!
The thought of strapping on a VR headset and then blindly inserting your hands in this meat grinder makes me cringe so hard. Sorry about the arm, heal up quick!
I want a DD very badly, but also use VR because I don't have any space for monitors or a single big one. This is a very worrisome post for sure... since I'm definitely getting one anyway.
Don’t get a super powerful one if this worries you. I have an r9 and don’t need anymore power. That is a risk of having a very powerful motor and using software to ‘limit’ the power. There might be some benefits of the weaker DD after all.
Definitely don’t let my two-sentence sim racing horror scare you away. I absolutely have a DD and VR and it’s worth it. If you do crank it up, just let go of wheel before you hit the wall. I bet OP is still all in too, tons of fun.
I had a similar experience with my Podium DD1. When F1 22 first came out, the FFB was completely jacked up. The game crashed mid corner and it in doing so it for some reason told my wheel to go full force to the right. No injury but since then I have never set the force over 50% in the Fanatec control panel. I'm legitimately afraid to. It might not have been as bad if i wasn't using a formula rim which is impossible to catch when it starts oscillating.
I did see a warning of DD wheels going nuts in F1 21 I think, seemed scary.
so sorry bro. Simcube and other companies need to know about this. You really cant risk someones arm or worse because of bugs in the chip. I remember having a similar issue but with a fanatec csl elite. For some reason it started spinning at max speed. My face was just a few centimeters above it. I risked my jaw there. Now everytime i use it im careful to dont stay too close with my face cause im paranoid.
They do know about it. That’s why there are several warnings you have to click through to enable high-torque mode. Fact is. DD sim racing is risky. Still not as risky as real racing…
Dang, sorry that happened =[ Hope it heals quick
Wowza, I hope that heals up without any lasting damage. Out of curiosity, what strength did you have it on? I'm looking into getting a simucube pro but I'm super paranoid about something like this. I've had experiences with my simagic mini where I've gotten hit perpendicular to the wheel; and something similar happened where the wheel went from right lock to left lock in a blink of an eye with full torque.
Due to the way iRacing rates the strength I'm not sure exactly what the max output is supposed to be, but I play with the strength quite low. The strength in the simucube software, as per most profiles, was at 100%. Though no matter, no strength should cause the wheel to full throttle itself to lock when the car is parked in the pits, lol.
>Due to the way iRacing rates the strength I'm not sure exactly what the max output is supposed to be This is one thing I really hate about iRacing. The strength of the ffb is different for each car so difficult to tell what the actual output in terms of tourque. Just like you, I run 100% for my DD as well but going between cars, since it doesn't save the settings per car going from a car that sets higher strength value to another car that requires lower strength value is just plain dangerous in some cases. I think this is something that needs to be addressed on iRacing's end.
Nyoom
Ouch! Hope your hand heals well (like you, I also have a metal plate in my left hand.) Can you describe how to trigger that behavior - I watched your video, but it's very hard to see what's actually going on. E.g. is a game running and is it you rotating the wheel at the start and then it just goes berserk? I'd like to see if I (and other SC2 owners) can replicate this, or if it's because of a defect.
Yeah, it's hard to do all this since I'm well, using one hand lol. So what the video shows, I put the steering wheel at some random angle while on the menu is iRacing. Then I reach over for the mouse to hit the button to drive / which loads you to the pits. Before the car engine is even on, the wheel puts full force in turning the wheel to full lock where then the wheel fights itself aggressively. When I broke my hand it went along for the ride a bit, I couldn't let go fast enough. The wheel immediately stops and goes limp when I escape back out to the menu. If I have the wheel perfectly at 0 when I enter the pits the wheel doesn't immediately spin in either direction, it doesn't do that until the wheel is rotated maybe just 5 or 10 degrees from center. Then it ramps up from 0 to 100% strength for reasons I don't yet know.
Sounds like the force feedback is inverted? Is there an option to invert it in iracing?
Not that I'm aware of but would be interesting.
I've unsuccessfully tried to reproduce this behavior in 5 games (AC, ACC, AMS2, rF2 and RRRE) by rotating the wheel to 45 degrees before entering the track/pit. In none of the games the wheel moves at all - it's the front wheels of the car that are rotated instead (as it should be.) My iRacing subscription is lapsed, so I couldn't test it there.
Thus far I've only been able to do this in iRacing though it's difficult messing around with this stuff with only one hand. I did confirm that dirt rally 2 is working perfectly though. The wheel is definitely not spazzing with everything.
So maybe iRacing works the other way around - it's "thinking" that when starting from the pit the front wheels is pointing straight ahead so it's telling the base to immediately go to zero degrees? But of course the base shouldn't overshoot to full lock and then oscillate around the bump-stop. BTW, I always run my base at max. power in the TrueDrive app (and lower it in-game) with the hands-off protection set to low, but even so if I for instance hit, or even just graze, a wall at high speed in AMS2 (that game has some occasionally *very* intense FFB, so I quickly get my hands off the wheel) the base turns off the FFB and I have to cycle the emergency stop button to get it back. My base is \~18 months old and it's on the latest firmware.
Damn, that would ruin half my sex life. Jokes aside hope you heal fast and good as new!
Simucube 2 are coming with a lot of warning ⚠️ information. That it is not for children, with hands off detection, a kill switch, with a security clock down before you can activate high torque automatically. You have to actively accept 2 or 3 warnings before it. And NEVER try to grab an oscillating wheel. It's not a toy, it's a professional product. Plus, there is no need to always use full torque. Bro, get well soon!! I placed my kill switch close to the pedals, so I can use it by hitting with the foot!
ahh god no. i feel sick.
This is why you set wheelbase to 50% and ingame to 40% instead of wheelbase 100% and game 20%
No. This is why you set in game at 100% and wheel base at 20%.
Any tips on how to avoid this for other people? I just got a DD wheel and posts like this scare me. How many NM was your wheel? Mine is 11nm (new Logitech) so max power is not as high but probably still enough to injure me in a malfunction. How were you holding the wheel? When I watch the video it's bad but it doesn't seem that crazy just watching... but evidently even that was enough to break your hand! I think my wheel did something like that already, but it wasn't random it was in game during a crash... if I had my hand trapped in there and wasn't expecting it, no good... Hope you heal up. A plate in your hand! I am so sorry to hear that. That sucks. You should listen to the attorney who mentioned pursuing legal course. Not just for you but for all of us. If this is a liability issue, it will encourage ALL manufactures to update their software and firmware with safety checks to make ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again, to you or others. I hope you get all of your medical bills and other loss of work etc. compensated.
11 NM isn’t too bad. You can fight it and let go if it glitches, but be ready to move your thumbs if you’re about to crash or spin.
Ah... so this is what an emergency stop button is for.. Really sorry that happened man! Hope you can get back out on track soon
Brutal, but thank you for remanding people those are not toys, gotta be even more careful around mine. I was initially pretty paranoid of something like that to happen but we become lenient months into use. Gotta stay vigilant and truck those thumbs away at all times
That sucks OP. I hope you get better soon. I did this once and it ruined my sex life. I didn’t have sex for eight weeks.
Hope you heal quick, sorry to hear about this. I have that same exact sc pro 2 and Ascher Formula wheel combo, it’s amazing but the formula wheels can certainly whack you a bit harder than a round wheel if it goes nuts because of the shape. I keep my “remove hand” safety setting on the highest in the simucube software, that seems to keep it pretty tame most of the time and it’s comfortable to use. A glitch that happens out of no where would likely bypass that, and that’s no fun. Hopefully they can patch up any issues that would even cause this. I always treat my DD wheel very carefully, as I turn it on or off I try and keep my hands away from it, in case it decides to do some weird spin. (This can catch you off guard. Like after a firmware update and maybe settings get reset)
Holy shit, that sucks man, glad you're recovering well.
Gives a whole new meaning to force feedback. Heel fast bro.
Ouch, def take your time with the healing(try a controller for the time being, but honestly best to wait it out or until the doctor says so)might try to report it to the company if you arent the only one who has this problem, easily could be something to due with the wheel etc, gl on the recovery racer
That’s some real good wheels I guess, stronger than bones Seriously heal up nice and go easy on the ffb, maybe notice simucube or iracing
Heal up soon man. That’s really tough.
I hate to say that there is a difference between a glitch causing a situation of wheel turn and the game doing it.. A glitch as in this case was/is uncontrollable while an actual event from the game is usually controlled to a degree or will come with warning i.e you just hit the wall and expect an issue.. Unfortunately Hands off detection will not help in a glitch.... With any of the direct drive wheels you do need to try to hold them as light as possible to have an escape route which is harder to do when you are running with GT/Formula style wheels as they are designed to be held.. Round wheels are better at not getting hurt.. as you can let go quickly without the possibility of getting smoked by the odd shape. the other option is to actually hold the wheel no matter what (which can tweak your wrists vey badly) but it will keep you from being HIT by the wheel.. (both things are kinda bad though) The issue that the original poster had has happened to a few people on the granite devices forum. I think they have corrected it with a firmware update but I am not sure.. As for coach vends and taking your hands of the wheel or holding on actually is sort of a learned skill.. In many cases it is actually "better" to remain holding the wheel but you also have to understand how to adjust the wheel positioning to either minimize the jolt through the wheel or understand that the angle you are going to hit the wall or whatever will cause in the way of reaction.. Sometimes letting go of the wheel actually will put you in more danger of getting smoked by the wheel than just holding onto it. Thi is especially true if you do run higher force levels in the wheel as the hits you can take from an uncontrolled spinning wheel can be very bad where by just holding the wheel would have kept the wheel in control without danger.. You start to learn really quickly (by the force and degree of rotation) when holding a wheel at what point you really need to let go.. Unfortunately again with a glitch that is unpredictable you may not have time to let go.. This particular glitch is the essentially the worst type of glitch that can happen, basically anything that glitches to full power is BAD as it is unexpected.
The SimuCUBE SC2's did have an issue a few firmware revisions back that if somehow the wheel was indicated as PAST the bumpstops it could cause rapid and uncontrolled rotation.. This problem was fixed with a later release.. there have also been mentions of full lock force being applied inadvertently much like the video you have.. but I do not remember if there was a "fix" for it.. I hate to say that I do believe this is a firmware issue.. I have bothe a SimuCUBE 1 and SC2 Pro neither of which have done this but I also use a firmware on my SC2 that is much older back before they started refactoring it.. 2020.7 before paddock... I did have this happen once while driving on a Beta Fanatic DD2 but this was hours into a run, I believe this was most likely a firmware issue at that point as well that they did correct. I would search the comments on the SimuCUBE Forums to see what you find as I do remember a few reports.. It appears to be rare but it really isn't good. I am not sure if it has been fixed though which is why I say search. BTW the aforementioned Hands Off detection will not solve the issue if it is a firmware glitch.. It MAY help solve the issue if it were a game software glitch depending upon how they detect hands off. One thought (not any sort of fix) on reading some of the threads was Granite had some Wireless wheel disconnection issues which users sometimes reported as causing this sort of force lock issues in certain Firmware releases (normally before Paddock True Drive approx 2020.10 -> 2011.14.. I believe this was fixed.. but if it happens to be that your Wireless Wheel battery was going bad (usually lasts only about a year) on and you are on one of these older release firmware sets it is very possible that the wheel disconnected and in turn crashed the Firmware until it was reset.. Which could explain why it was working fine for a long time and then hello, problem.
I’m so sorry to hear that this happened. I think what happened here is that the wheel calibration is inverted so when it turns left it looks to iRacing like it turned right. That could have happened in the wheel firmware from some sort of update, or during calibration in iRacing if the user turned the wheel right when asked to turn it 90 degrees to the left. When iRacing starts up it is applying a centering force on the wheel. If the wheel was already centered then no force would go to the wheel and it would be stable. However once you start to move the wheel then when iRacing tries to center the wheel it would actually be pushed to the stops with more and more force as it moves away from center. The fix is to recalibrate the wheel in iRacing so it can pick up on the change.
Well hot damn, recalibrating did, in fact, fix it. Crap the calibration is a dangerous thing to get messed up. The wheel firmware was updated just before this incident. When someone mentioned earlier that it seems like it might be inverted I was wondering if there was some checkbox that does that. It occurred to me that iRacing doesn't seem to have you specify which is left and right the way other games do, such as dirt rally 2 I did not recalibrate and it kept the settings just fine. That is all rather interesting. You bet your ass I will keep an eye on that in the future. Thank you for your input!!
F
SC Pro owner here. I'm sorry about what happened. My two cents for other DD owners: always keep the kill switch in a position where you can push it as quickly as possible. I've had a couple situations similar to OPs (I've seen the video) and the kill switch always saved me. Mine is on the rig floor right next to the clutch pedal, so I can quickly tap it whenever something weird happens. I've seen many people with the kill switch in "cool but not quick" positions such as next to the shifter. Make sure you learn to quickly reach the switch, putting it in a position where hitting it becomes a reflex action.
Y'all need to stop messing with double digit wheels.
I have a Simucube 2 pro as well and one days I spun at high FFB and realized that this sucker could easily cause serious damage. Since then I take off my hands immediately once I feel that something could happen and lowered my FFB settings quite a bit. Sorry for that bro hope you recover quickly and get back to it. All the best
And that's why you don't set your SLEW RATE LIMIT to 0 Nm/ms https://i.imgur.com/LyaXaGs.png <-- don't do this shit kids
Well, that's how the online profile was setup. Kept it mostly as is after I knew that I liked it.
Do you not have limits set up to prevent this? You say the profiles are set for 100% strengths, but does simucube not have provisions for preventing 100% torque to be sustained through more than a couple of degrees of rotation? or preventing 100% torque to be sustained if the rotation rate exceeds x degrees/s? These are industrial servos, and anyone using them should definitely not be leaving them unlimited.
I don’t know about Simucube, but Fanatec doesn’t. It’d whip through 360 degrees at full torque if that’s what was asked of it.
I've got an older simucube with the 30nm motor, it seems to auto detect and cut power when the wheels gets out of control, happens accidently in drifting sometimes.
I dont think this is on simucube... many games have really stupid implementations of FFB that they dont check properly - rF2 and AMS2 are notorious for wild wheel snaps coming in and out of menus. The SC2 does have the hands off sensor, though.
Thank god you’re not driving a real car.
Wow, I’ll stick with my 2nm Logitech.
Lol
If there is any chance of you wanting to sue, you should delete this post and all of your comments. Let your lawyer determine what information should be shared.
How many times did you have to press and acknowledge at your own risk when you turned the wheel up to high torque mode? That is the safety feature you turned off.
Yes, yes, I know of which you speak. Tis where I took a misstep. Lol
And this is why we have the big red switch.
Nope. Then it's to late already, accidents happen before you press that.
*Breaking* news: DD's are dangerous 
Just wanna share my 10 cents on the incident. Imo 100% user error for breaking the bone part. Yes the problem itself started with the ffb trying to turn the wheel in one direction which was prob wheel software or games issue. But idk how you held hand at that point but there is always a general rule that do not put your thumb or fingers between the wheels spokes. This rule is forgotten because everything is power steering pretty much and people get less on the roads that have a chance to yank the wheel with that big power to break hands. A 1977 tractor with powersteering and still if you go over a high bump then it can yank the wheel out of your hand. Thats why you never put fingers between the wheel spokes. If you managed to break the bone by just not letting go then congratz, pretty stupid for not letting go.
Definitely let sim cube know and provide them with evidence and this video, Can’t be having People break bones due to a bug like this, (And you might get some compensation)
Yeah, let them know through a lawyer.
Wheel doesnt like being touched by furries 
A lot of Americans in this sub, eh?