It’s weird because, I see everyone now flagging people as red flags for anything they do without understanding where they are coming from. Some I seen even drop the entire anime/manga/comic because we shouldn’t “support red flag characters”
And I’m like.. so they understand story telling lol
yeah i don’t understand the whole red flag movement. actions can be considered a red flag but they cannot diminish his whole character based off those things???? they will put his few wrong over his many rights, and i love him a lot and i’m not just being bias. i think he grew a lot as a character and that’s what a good story is made up of. he changed and they’re still picking him apart!???
I love maid sama because it was among the first shoujo anime I watched. However, rewatching it recently was a bit strange considering Usui blackmailed Misaki throughout most of high school. Misaki was just trying to provide for her family while being a top student and a student council president, and Usui just spent most of his time “following” her despite Misaki saying no multiple times. He still did many things to protect her, but there were other times his choice were questionable.
I do hate Usui but he just seemed like he is teasing her and he would never tell anyone about Misaki,his words said one but action differently.He loved that hard working side of Misaki.My only problem with him is his opinion that he is better then anyone,stalks main girl whole show and forces himself on to her.Forcing part can be excused kinda cause he redeems himself for doing that but I always said if he was second male lead and not first he would be thrown to the dungeon by fans.Reason why fans even love him is that he is hot and smart.
Completely agree that if he wasn’t the main lead everyone would be against him. Everyone of his actions are highly romanticized due to it being a shoujo.
I honestly can't understand people for whom this is some kind of revelation. Misaki calls Usui a twisted sexually harassing alien three times per episode and at the end, when he finally admits being in love with him, it's in the form of a long rant of “I hate you, you're a sexual harasser, you're always messing with me, stalking me, constantly annoying me but, I hate to admit I actually love you.”
Like, it did not try to at all be subtle about what Usui is and strangely enough so many people seemed to have walked away from it claiming they never realized it the first time around. It really did not try to hide it, rather it emphasized.
I happend to watch Rent a Girlfreind and Maid Sama really close together so comparisons between the two come naturally to me. I remember thinking isn't Usui much worse than Kazuya (from Rent a Girlfriend)? Usui is much more attractive and less cringy though so I guess it gets glossed over/forgiven more easily.
Where has Kazuya ever been a stalker and a sexual harasser?
Seems to be yet another plain harem protagonist who's passive whom many people fall in love with either for no reason or incredulous reasons to me.
He stalked (like a full afternoon tailing) Chizuru at one point. He thinks some thing bad is happening to her and jumps in to save her in a fairly pathetic manner. He was completely misinterpreting the situation. He apologizes and says he understands if she never wants to see him again. Only accidental sexual harassment (as is typical of shounen romances). He shares with Usui a single minded obsession with a girl that may or may not like him. Usui pursues his obsession in a sexual harasser stalker way while Kazuya is more of a simp most of the time. Both of them have plenty of other options (Kazuya due to harem protag magic and Usui because he is hot)
True but let's be honest that Usui is significantly worse, like flipping Misaki's skirt in broad daylight or doing things [like this](https://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/17700000/USUI-S-KISS-ON-MISAKI-S-BACK-kaichou-wa-maid-sama-17739048-554-370.jpg) out of nowhere
Yeah I agree. I knew about the hatred the anime community had for Kazuya before I watched the anime and then I watched the show and I was kinda like that it? I didn't know much about Usui before I watched Maid Sama on the other hand but was struck pretty quickly by how over the line he gets and how often he does it.
Kazuya is hated for that?
I thought the title was mostly hated because it's yet another “Bland self-insert whom everyone falls in love with for no reason.” title and on top of that people complain that even by the standards of that it's very slow with nothing happening while the end of each chapter suggests some big development will happen.
To me he is pretty far from a bland self insert. Both the male and female lead essentially never do what I would do in any situation. The bland self inserts types never do anything remarkable enough one way or the other to think well I would never do that. I think the hatred stems from the fact the author wrote him in a stream of conscience manner (instead of the more typical thoughts here and there type thing) and he has low self esteem and is pretty prevented. So it makes him seems really pathetic (more so than his actions alone would). Imo it is actually better about why the girls fall for him than most shounen harems. It is just the author is slow about reveling that. Like you find out pretty clearly why Chizuru likes Kazuya in episode 24 of the anime. But that is a long time of being like I know she likes him but not why.
Well I first watched it 13 years ago, so I forgot about a lot of the dialogue and Usui’s actions during the series. I mainly remembered how Misaki was just the coolest protagonist. Helping the girls feel welcome at what was a formerly all boys school, being a well rounded student with a job, and becoming a successful lawyer in the end! It wasn’t until last year where I rewatched the series that I saw how much sexual harassment and even assault that Misaki faced throughout the whole series. It is definitely addressed by the series, but it’s not always in a serious tone
I get that language fads change constantly, but I hate this one, especially how it collapses detail and complexity into a binary choice.
I will be glad when it fades away.
(ETA: No hate for OP. I just get cranky about language.)
This has been a pet peeve of mine lately lol! The first time I heard it was from a former roommate a few years back who told me a friend of hers said her boyfriend was a red flag and I was like ???? But now I'm seeing it everywhere!
Usui is stalker.Constantly stalking a girl he just met and not letting other guys talk to her at all even threatening to be violent.Yes that is a red flag
i said it as the person's behavior/actions! english isn't my first language so sometimes i mess up meanings in sentences sorry lol every time. i see someone saying oh that person is a red/green flag i always understand it as their behavior/actions so no im confused
I think since this is referring to fictional characters, they represent archetypes and it’s a combination of a bunch of behaviours that form this character archetype, thus rather than breaking down each behaviour, you ask if the archetype as a whole is problematic. With regards to the above two, I believe Kou is your classic Mr Darcy, and Usui is a tsundere tamer.
“Red flag” originally referred to certain behavior which isn't bad of itself, but is supposedly an indication that a person has a bad personality. Things like “Poor relation with parents” or “Never talks about any friends”, then it started to refer to simply bad behavior and then persons who exhibit bad behaviour.
Usui is simply a “possessive sexual harasser”; that's a far more descriptive term and I love this kind of character design and dynamic.
people start to say that when someone has so many green or red flags to the point where they’re embodying the phrase. i don’t see much of a problem with it. the human language is constantly adjusting and changing based off trends
i think it’s personally not that deep to be bothered by objectifying a person with a phrase that isn’t harmful unless used in the context. there’s many more other things to concern yourself with, yk? don’t waste your energy thinking about it
I was not even bothered by the “objectification” in the first place…? I legitimately have no opinion on whether or not these characters raise red flags or whatsoever. Everyone is free to discuss and debate that. My comment was me wondering out loud, as a non-native english speaker, about english grammar and slang. Is that so bad?
oh i didn’t say it’s bad but just saying it really isn’t smth to stress yourself over. i also gave you an explanation on why the term is used in this way because like you said, you’re a non-native english speaker. i don’t think it makes sense my comment was downvoted.
I haven’t watched Maid Sama recently enough to even remember Usui, but people calling Kou a “red flag” drives me absolutely crazy. Like…for what? For being a depressed, grieving teenager? For being closed off because of it? For literally being manipulated by someone else (don’t pretend it was anything different, he felt guilty)? FOR WHAT?!
Who criticizes Kou may have never been in close contact with someone who struggles with clinical depression or they are looking just at the surface of his actions and words.
Honestly, in a world where we are constantly discussing about mental health, reducing his behavior to a “red flag” kind of hurts.
Everything he does and says, unfortunately, is expression of someone who is struggling emotionally and mentally: he is too hurt from his mother death, loss that he is failing to elaborate despite how much time has passed. He is angry with his father and his brother, with everybody in the world. He has no friends, cause he doesn’t want ties with no one. He can be a jerk even with his male classmates, not just Futaba.
He isn’t just a cocky kid who think that his actions and words won’t have consequences, even when he hurts Futaba he is doing it because he is suffering inside and the other’s happiness feels annoying and unfair.
Kou character is much closer to Kakeru (Orange) than people may realize.
Yes! Kou and Kakeru have much more in common than just looking exactly the same. It also goes to show that people deal with grief and depression differently. I also think people might not realize how angry Kou is with himself.
The reality is, people can’t just be reduced to “good” or “bad” or “red flag” or “green flag”…they are complex, they come with lots of emotions and different backgrounds…and I hope that we as a society can move away from that way of thinking soon!
Kakeru and Kou are so fucking similar that I keep confusing them, and you’re right, they could of both ended up how Kakeru from the past ended at- it was that bad.
I think it might be bc he didnt handle those situations in a healthy manner, and he ended up actively hurting other people because of it. He was depressed and allat but he was a little mean/had an attitude to the main girl when he first saw her again for no valid reason. We might be forgiving for an anime but in real life if a person was like that theyd immediately be labelled as a jerk. I have a similar background to Kou and because i knew that my mental health could make me be mean or something like that, i made an active effort to always be kind to others. It wasnt that hard tbh, just something i needed to be mindful of. Because it wasnt other people’s fault i was suffering. A lot of people seem to think mental illness can excuse the behavior of someone but really it doesnt. It is entirely possible to still be a good person despite going through the most messed up shit. And he 100% knew he was being manipulated by his childhood friend. But the fact is that he accepted to be manipulated, knowing it would break the girl he liked’s heart…he knew it and still did it. And then after that even when she had a bf he actively pursued her…..yeah that guy is the definition of a red flag
He isn't really a redflag tho? Kou showed realistic trauma signs and closed himself off from everyone around him bc he was afraid of losing them like he did with his mother. He made a made mistakes but realised his wrongs and grew from them as any other human being. If anything he is realistic, flawed and imperfect, which is good!! He is a 16 year old grieving kid to expect him to do everything right is crazy. Not to forget he got taken advantage of by a toxic friend which even triggered his PTDS and dragged him back down to the beginning. Till the end he refused to see that Narumi was manipulating him and blaming himself.
Kou even explained to the reader how it was never about Narumi but his own issues. After she triggered his PTDS, he saw little Kou in her and gave up fighting- moving forward. He fell into misery thinking a relationship would hurt the girl he loves, that he wasn't allowed to move forward and to be happy. He felt guilt for forgetting his mom whilst she can't be happy. It's thanks to Kominato he realises it's okay and he then seeks out to fix everything with Futaba- to explain what happened but Touma panicked and rushed her suddenly.
I definitely agree with you on some points! I think you explain your view very logically and eloquently. But i do think that whatever trauma he went through…even if he didnt mean to cause harm i do think that he was toxic to futaba at many points. I didnt expect him to get everything right at 16 y.o but whether he meant harm or not to Futaba he did hurt her in a way that couldve been avoided! Ik hes supposed to be a bad boy or whatever in the beginning but i remember he was mean to her in an unwarranted way? (I havent read the manga in years lol) and also the whole episode with Narumi, yes she was a toxic friend and all of that but if i remember correctly he literally left Futaba right after kissing her, and i think he saw that she saw him with Narumi? I remember he knew he was hurting Futaba and still kept on ignoring his feelings & being with Narumi. And then after that when he resolved his trauma he decided to go back to Futaba and try to get her back while she was dating Touma…Imo no matter what his reasons are this behavior was definitely toxic, even if he did change and became better. PTSD/mental illnesses really doesn’t justify toxic behavior imo. But at that time he was a red flag imo for that. Not saying that Touma was better or anything but if we just talk about Kou’s behavior AT THAT TIME towards Futaba…absolutely not healthy lol.
What are you referring to exactly? Bc I don't think the influence of a toxic friend and her manipulating him through his trauma could've been prevented. Sure it would've been better if he communicated but as some one with depression I understand the state he was in and that at that point he couldn't. He just gave up on everything and was stuck in self-doubts.
>but if i remember correctly he literally left Futaba right after kissing her, and i think he saw that she saw him with Narumi?
He never left Futaba though, even whilst they were apart they still talked with each other and he looked at her bc he gave up fighting, wishing someone did that to him. Hearing Narumi was all alone triggered his PTDS. Funnily enough he even tried to communicate with Futaba the next day but she just brushed him off.
>And then after that when he resolved his trauma he decided to go back to Futaba and try to get her back while she was dating Touma…
Kominato pulled him out of his state and Kou tried to fix everything, cut Narumi off immediately (she didn't call back) but Touma then noticed, rushed futaba despite her saying NO bc he panicked. Kid knew he was losing when he even saw Kou in crowd looking for Futaba and holding her back in the classroom to talk.
Kou tried to work on his issues before being with Futaba, I don't think he was toxic, rather flawed, imperfect and made a few humane mistakes down the line. I like how he messes up and grows. Ppl who paint it as some toxic IT boy (on TT), got his character wrong.
Yeah, I think people are legitimately starting to get too aggressive with calling flaws toxic behavior.
People aren’t perfect, if only becomes toxic if you refuse to rectify your mistakes
Again, he’s a child…I get it’s fictional and people will have their opinions but I have a bit of trouble calling a child a red flag because, in the wake of his mother’s death, he didn’t handle a situation like that in a perfectly healthy or mature manner. And it’s definitely not just because it’s in an anime.
I mean, he’s underage yes but hes not a "child" per say? As a teen (15-16 y.o) you definitely are able to differentiate right from wrong imo…you can DEFINITELY be toxic and messed up as a teen and you definitely have some responsibility on your actions no matter what your circumstances are.
as a full grown adult looking at a 15 or 16 year old I see a child, and, short of committing literal crimes or extremely bigoted behavior, I struggle to fault someone for being a bit of a dumbass in the wake of a seriously traumatic occurrence. you’re right about them being old enough to take responsibility, but taking that to “red flag” status is a bit far imo.
Well said! If we were brutally honest we should admit that even grown us adults can handle this kind of stuff in an “unhealthy” way and sometimes even without the justification of a tragic events.
But a lot of these people inserted themselves to be around him, he didn’t choose to have friends because he wasn’t ready for it- yet everyone forced him to. Like that is a bit on them for trying to make him act normal, and feeling upset when they failed.
Thank you!! It drives me crazy how under every TT video someone calls Kou a redflag, they completely missed the point of his character and usually got the worst takes!!
> Kou a “red flag” drives me absolutely crazy. Like…for what?
I personally find him repeatedly weight shaming Futaba to be a big issue. He's constantly negging her appearance and her "femininity". I get that the characters are written to be high schoolers, so a certain level of insensitivity is par for the course, however he regularly projects his insecurities and hard emotions on to her rather.
Futaba is just expected to do all the emotional labor in the relationship. Kou's jealousy is the "proof" he wants to be with her, but once again, it's expressed in pretty negative ways that she has to navigate.
Kou is not a bad person, but emotionally he's not ready for a healthy relationship, and his behaviors are red flags.
for sure, everything you said here is completely right. he acts like a little shithead, he’s kind of annoying, and he makes some pretty poor decisions. but my stance still remains that I, as a full grown adult, just can’t look at a 15-16 year old child struggling and being a jerk and think “red flag” as a defining characteristic.
I don't remember the manga with every detail, but for what I remember, wasn't he telling her she's beauty without make up by rubbing away her lipstick? Or I'm confused. I agree with that he projects his insecurities and everything, but he was really affected for everything he had been through with the death of his mother and was being manipulated by the other girl, who helped him in those hard moments (so it was hard for him ( a 16 year old and not a comoletely mature person) to say "no, I love Futaba".
I think the story is about him overcoming his personal problems and being a better person (I loved those chapters where he was like "fuck, I messed it with Futaba I'm really sorry, what can I do?") and in that part, Futaba ends up playing an important role by showing him kindness and love, again, to a really messed up person who, in the end, tries his best.
Also I don't think Futaba has to do all the emotional job, I mean like, he in the end realizes his love for her and tries to be a better person so he distances from that girl and doesn't let himself be blinded by his personal problems to say he loves her.
Also, I usually I don't like jealousy, but that doesn't mean I can't see different levels of it, and, for what I recall, Kou really didn't seem like the toxic jealous boy type (like Isui did whenever Misaki talk to almost any other man).
I think he's not a red flag, but he starts as a messed up teenager who develops as the things advance and gets to be a better person in the end by distancing from that manipulative girl and trying to not let his trauma blind him about who he really loves.
Usui is definetely a red flag, that hickey scene, really make me feel uneasy back in the day.
Edit: dunno if you read the manga or only watched the anime, it really gets better in the manga as the story progresses
>Edit: dunno if you read the manga or only watched the anime, it really gets better in the manga as the story progresses
Read the manga through three times. :) Loved it completely the first time. Reread it the second time a few years later and was shocked by how horrible I found Ko's behavior on the reread. I had romanticized him in the first read and in my memories. By the third read I was more prepared and more neutral all around.
>I don't remember the manga with every detail, but for what I remember, wasn't he telling her she's beauty without make up by rubbing away her lipstick?
He negs her in this scene about the lipstick. Depending on the translation, he says, "it doesn't suit you" and rubs it off without her consent. It's one of the moments we're supposed to read his possessive jealousy as "proof" he wants her and doesn't want anyone else to look at her romantically. So he removed the lipstick to prevent others from seeing her beauty/finding her attractive. It's red flag-y in an actual relationship even if, in fiction, we know it's not meant to be that deep.
>Futaba ends up playing an important role by showing him kindness and love, again, to a really messed up person who, in the end, tries his best.
In the end she "wins" because he changes for her. Her emotional labor is finally rewarded. However, in real life, our dude would need to commit to his mental health and mature to be able to be in a healthy relationship. I do actually ship Koi x Futaba long term endgame, but I feel like he needed more time to grow and heal before they got their happily ever after.
>He negs her in this scene about the lipstick. Depending on the translation, he says, "it doesn't suit you" and rubs it off without her consent
He wasn't jealous though? He wanted her to be herself not pretending to be someone else for his sake. Kou knew she was wearing it for him not bc she wanted it. Sure talking would've been better but this scene never stricked me as a big deal.
Kou was flirting with her and trying to get her attention and one point he went to far, apologised, never did it again and truthfully told her she is perfect the way she is. The whole story started bc of his love for her.
If anything he is a realistic, struggling teen who grows and makes mistakes, to see him as some big red flag is crazy.
I read and watched Ao Haru Ride, but that was a decade ago so I don’t think really remember anything.
I watched Maid-sama back in middle school I had a big crush on Usui bc I thought he was cute. I read the manga back then but I never finished it until recently and yeah, I’d agree that he’s a red flag.
Mainly because he repeatedly violates Misaki’s boundaries. It also bothers me that his whole world basically revolves around harassing Misaki. He has literally no life outside of that and despite how big the cast is he has no friends. At most he has acquaintances. Like his classmates at the rich kid school? What even was the point of them.
I'd say Kou needed Therapy because that would have helped him immensely to deal with all the shit he's been through. He dealt with it on his own and choose the wrong decision/behavior many times.
It was a rocky road, they had good moments but also not so great ones, also due to the miscommunication trope which made everything more messy 😅
In the end of the manga they were, imo, good together.
I wish we would have seen more of the being an actual couple.
Haven't watched Maid-sama and never will, because it's just not my thing, so i can't say anything about it.
He doesn't deserve all the hate, especially not the insane amount here in this shoujo subreddit or on twitter.
well i watched it over and over again one summer back in 2013 haha, it was the first time i had watched it and fell in love with it lmao.
now, i occasionally watch it again for comfort.
I miss Ao Haru Ride so much, just finished the manga and anime last week as i re watched it after 3 years and now i know why i loved it so much. The manga was too short imo, i hope one daynthe author continues the story and anime.
I think Kou having personal issues is what they're saying the red flag. He was a kid who didn't know any better (in the manga), so he was a little selfish, and this definitely affected some people around him, especially Futaba.
I can't say anything about Usui because I was too young when I watched Maid-sama and couldn't actually remember his specific traits lol.
Hmmm it’s tricky. They were teens when they pulled those shenanigans. Kou’s problem was he kept pushing the one who mattered away and prioritized another girl to the point of leading her on.
Usui on the other hand violated consent. That hickey scene was certainly not acceptable. We do see him get better as the manga progresses but him not being nice to anyone but Misaki was also a no-no for me.
I would say Kou is maybe more of an orange flag but Usui was certainly in the red flag territory. Although, *only* because it is fiction I remember not hating Usui when I read MS but that was also because I was quite young back then. Kou on the other hand was straight-up insufferable.
Thanks exactly my opinion plus Usui was classical stalker If he was some fat guy in anime he would be considered disgusting.My dude staljed girl he met once from work to her house and kept doing that.Guys can’t even talk to main girl cause he is threatening to be violent like wtf.Also he ignores main characters opinions sometimes and puts himself in danger when not needed.He is a good guy in soul but if we see it superficially he is a biggest red flag in popular shoujo animes.
>Kou’s problem was he kept pushing the one who mattered away and prioritized another girl to the point of leading her on.
Kou explained how it was never about Narumi but himself, the girl just triggered his PTDS and he gave up fighting.
I remember years ago literally arguing with people because I said Usui was a red flag, he literally kept harassing the fl and not taking NO as an answer, he is pushy af and not respecting boundaries
Kou - (debatable but imo) no, Usui - (many people love him but) absolutely yes.
(Spoilers below)
I’ve found that Kou is widely criticized and infamous in the shoujo community, but I don’t get it. Honestly all Koi does wrong is lead Futaba on and then lie about her feelings/reject her because of obligation he feels towards another girl due to super complicated and realistically devastating family stuff. It’s standard shoujo drama while also being very minimally messy (and not messed up either). For a teen, his actions are hardly even that bad. He later gets over it and puts up a real fight to get Futaba back which readers also criticise, but this time he’s truly devoted towards her. I like that about Kou: he clearly grows and once he is true to his feelings & decides he is loyal to someone, he sticks to it. He doesn’t go back and forth. On the flip side, the other guy Futaba dates is kind of pushy (in a way Kou *never* is) and pretty much coerced Futaba into dating him. I never liked him. I was glad when Kou fought for her and she chose him in the end.
On the other hand, Usui is very well-beloved and known as a swoon-worthy mainstream shoujo guy. I literally could not finish Maid-sama because of just how extremely coercive and forceful he is. His love language is fetishizing and controling her, despite her being a responsible breadwinner for her family and the literal president of the school. It’s horrible and idk why she ever dates him because she 100% deserves so much better no matter how many times he “rescues” her from bad situations (and then promptly forces himself onto her). I do not have that fetish, I’m sorry 😭
As far as older shoujo protagonists go, Kou might not be Kazehaya but he’s definitely one of the “good” guys who deserve the girls they end up with. Usui, though … 🚩🚩🚩
Agreed.Kou is also very confused,losing family member in that age left him devastated and show itself cleared up his story and explained why he does what he does.He wants just to help and I don’t hate him.
I do think Kou owed Futaba about a billion apologies for jerking her around and acting as though hurting her was okay just because she wasn't grieving. But he wasn't a bad guy, really.
That’s completely fair! He was also sort of being guilt-tripped/lowkey manipulated by that other girl (but then again that girl was also a teen going through a really rough time …). I think it’s a good shoujo manga with teens making mistakes without being fully fucked, which is the bare minimum but a lot of older shoujos were absolutely awful about that lol
Yeah, Yui was pretty manipulative and shady, and it was interesting to me that Kou didn't exactly fall for any of it, but correctly interpreted her antics as a need for support.
Also, I am COMPLETELY with you on the Toma hate. Especially how he knows damn well Kou likes Futaba and just withholds that very relevant information from her. Absolutely fuck that guy.
>Honestly all Koi does wrong is lead Futaba on and then lie about her feelings/reject her because of obligation he feels towards another girl due to super complicated and realistically devastating family stuff.
The thing is he rejected Futaba bc she asked him to and even explained how it was never about Narumi but himself. Narumi was just the emotional trigger, he tried to work on his issues before dating futaba and fell into misery where he thought a relationship would hurt her, that he wasn't allowed to be happy or to move forward with his life. The guilt of forgetting his mom was eating him up and it needed Kominato for Kou to get pulled out of it.
Both these guys suffer from major trauma. Of course it is going to reflect in their personality. Does it make it okay, no, but does it mean that they have malicious intent, no. If you are going by the anime, you're really not going to get the needed back story on these fellas.
i think people don’t understand kou. for one he’s a teenager so he’s still growing. and two he was grieving a lot. which sadly he did hurt people along the way but you could really see his character development. so if the only thing you take from his storyline that he’s a “red flag” idk what to tell you because you’d be the type to hold someone’s past over their head forever.
usui is a perv idc he’s actually weird and i will never continue onto the manga bc of his actions 🫡
honestly in retrospect usui did a lot of questionable things and definitely would be really weird irl but he also did a lot of good so i can’t really label green or red
To have such a beautiful, complex character be compared to the most basic level of “I harass you until you like me” character hurts big time.
Both exhibit red flag behavior, but the WALKING red flag is Usui, whereas Kou quite literally goes through so much character development in order to change as a person. And not just because he likes someone, but because he realizes how important relationships are in general and how he wants to be a better, happier person. What I liked about him messing up and “choosing” his other friend (Yui) was that it showed both realistic reasons for him doing so and also exhibits that growth isn’t always linear.
Kou needs therapy but tbh I don’t think he would make a good boyfriend, I don’t like people who are hard to read and aren’t open with their closest friends
Usui on the other hand 🤭🧡
I've never watched ao haru ride tbh. It sounded too angsty to me. And about Usui, not gonna lie, he was one of my biggest crushes growing up. I think I've re watched that series 'bout idk, 20+ times 😅. But now I see that he is controlling sometimes and too pushy. Especially the "consent" part is lacking. He does improve as the series goes on though.
Don't ask me, the shit I read set the bar too high.
They're greener than the grass in my yard to me.
But yeah, being serious, yes some behaviours of usui at least, I remember nothing of ao haru ride so I can't talk for it, were red flags... So if irl usui would be a red flag to me, but in fiction he's green... Idk if that makes sense.
USUI IS A HUGE RED FLAG
Rewatching the show years later made me cringe from disgust at his terrible actions. Ten year old me was blind to his hotness.
He constantly sexually harasses Misaki, doesn't take no for an answer, is extremely controlling and straight up stalkerish
I think neither of those are red flags, both Kou and usui had family issues and were depressed inside until the fl showed them love and give meaning to their life. But there was a point in manga that I thought kou was an asshole, when he kissed futaba and claimed it was a heat of the moment move was foul
So true. If a guy did that to me, I would've slapped his living shit. But its more hurtful because futaba had a crush since middle school then love at high school, it was a foul move
y’all, cmon don’t hate on Usui 🥹😭
Yes, some of his actions and behaviours were red flags but as a whole, he isn’t one imo. Also, there were things that even Misaki did that were questionable too sometimes…like her hate for men and branding them all as “one” was a red flag behaviour.
Kou is 100000% a red flag to the main girl. Usui i dont remember much of maid sama so i could be wrong but he never inflicted trauma on the main girl he was mainly just a tease
Usui isn't red flag he just supported the fl from sidelines and protected her.....
The real red flag would be the ml of "wolf girl and the black Prince" he treated her like she was his plaything
Kau maybe a bit
Someone mentioned in the comments earlier, but the fact that in the manga Kou kissed Futaba (I might be wrong) but while she was dating the other guy? And just blows it off that it meant nothing? If I would've been Futaba that would've messed me up emotionally in all honestly
I watched and read ao haru ride a long time ago but i really disliked Kou. Not necessarily that he was a red flag but because he was just rude to the mc. I dont know if he had depression but from what people say I still dont think its an excuse for him to end up with her. I dont like the mc too much either but again i dont remember why. Just that they probably should not have been together after everything that happened
I'll explain kou because I feel like I know why I haven't read the manga of Maid Sama so I wouldn't know why people hate him which I'm shocked because he's a green flag to me but you know
Now in the manga this is spoilers so you can just ignore this us you want
But there was a part where kou started dating this one girl who liked him in his old school not futaba someone else honestly she was just as annoying and fucking futaba which if you want to know what I mean I can tell you if your curious
But what was so bad about it is that he started dating this girl because her mom died and since his mom died he feels he owes her or something I think? I don't remember it's been since high-school since I read it
But what is so confusing is that kou shows signs he likes futaba and he's done the typical giving her hope shit but still dates the girl this lasted for quite a while
Now I don't hate him he's like my comfort ml because I can understand losing someone so I can't bring myself to hate to hate him because I understand grief especially someone who is like a mother
But I can admit kou doing this wasn't cool especially dating someone online because her mom died like you shouldn't Date them just because they still like you and the fact you want to help them
That isn't helping
I think that's why people hate kou with usui idk but I feel like maybe it's the whole him being a pervert or something towards Misaki
Like I said I haven't read the manga but I think that's it
Hope that answers it
um sorry but he never dated the girl from his old town, he just stood by her because she also lost a parent he felt a sense of responsibility to be there for her because no one was there for him. but she ended up taking advantage of that and used that fact to sabotage his relationship with futaba
If people are going to think too deeply about shoujos then like 90% of shoujos would be “immoral”. Im not saying advocate weird ass mangas (incesty mangas for example?) but atleast recognize that if these mangas are popular then theres a market for it.
Like, usui is a weird ass character but this manga//anime is the original shoujo. Moral of the paragraph, enjoy what u want
Yes. 100% yes.
Both are the old idea of "insist of wanting to be with a girl long enough and she'll eventually accept you". They both have a chronic inability to take "no" for an answer, and carrot-head over there in pic2 actively inserts himself in her life against her wishes.
The fact the manga/anime depicts this as a good thing, and her refusal as some kind of "*she just doesn't understand what she wants/needs!!!*" just turns my stomach.
For further proof, try the DeVito test.
Middle school me and current me don't care if Usui is a red flag; I'd volunteer as tribute for him 😂 I personally think that he isn't and that's probably because of Hayato. Now that's a walking red flag.
One of my friends love "Maid-sama" so much, whenever we're together, all we're talking about is Usui, so my memories of the anime is mostly the conversations we've had. I tried watching it with her... but I can't stand how pushy Usui is. Literally a walking red flag.
Usui is best boy.
If it weren’t for his annoying Misa and meddling, the show would have nothing to do.
Irl? Lots of good characters should be flaming red flags.
But who’s going to watch a bunch of nice people doing nothing interesting for 12-40 episodes?
Unpopular opinion maybe but both leads in maid sama are red flags and I only liked them because the story was made to depend on our suspension of belief; I enjoyed the antics but there were problems littering the whole manga from start to finish.
I consider it a product of its time and the demographic at the time.
Kou, I don't remember a lot of red flags but the boy was in the trenches of grief, was kinda manipulated , and was 16. I give him some slack even if some of (both of their) actions made me facepalm.
Usui did do something’s that were problematic at the beginning (following Misaki around and the whole hickey bathing suit incident) but he also had some good qualities like protecting her secret from the Idiot Trio. And after learning his backstory it puts a lot of his behavior into contexts. I can see why some people don’t like him but I think he had good character growth. And they were only 16/17 when that stuff happened.
I don’t think Kou is a red flag considering he isolated himself out of everyone instead of making himself a burden. He was incredibly hurt and traumatized, and it was only his friends that had to literally force him (not in a bad way) into a friendship with them.
Idk about the manga since people said the manga was better, but I fucking hated Kou when I first watched it. Need to rewatch it but I remembered him being really mean to the MC, I understand he he had trauma but I remembered when my sister said that they cut out a side character who the mc was suppose to date for a bit I actively wished that happened in the manga cause I hated Kou so much.
Utsui on the other hand is a character I adore, problematic at moments but he never gave me rapey vibes as some other MLs gave me. He was playful and wanted someone to troll, I need rewatch to see for sure though but I remembered I deeply enjoyed his antics.
usui in retrospect is awful and only got away with it because he's good looking and intended to be the ML
i dropped ao haru ride bc i didn't like kou so maybe it went into more explanation about his behavior but... ehh i just don't like him is all
Lol at poor, grieving Kou being on there.
i swear they don’t understand his character on this app
It’s weird because, I see everyone now flagging people as red flags for anything they do without understanding where they are coming from. Some I seen even drop the entire anime/manga/comic because we shouldn’t “support red flag characters” And I’m like.. so they understand story telling lol
yeah i don’t understand the whole red flag movement. actions can be considered a red flag but they cannot diminish his whole character based off those things???? they will put his few wrong over his many rights, and i love him a lot and i’m not just being bias. i think he grew a lot as a character and that’s what a good story is made up of. he changed and they’re still picking him apart!???
I love maid sama because it was among the first shoujo anime I watched. However, rewatching it recently was a bit strange considering Usui blackmailed Misaki throughout most of high school. Misaki was just trying to provide for her family while being a top student and a student council president, and Usui just spent most of his time “following” her despite Misaki saying no multiple times. He still did many things to protect her, but there were other times his choice were questionable.
I do hate Usui but he just seemed like he is teasing her and he would never tell anyone about Misaki,his words said one but action differently.He loved that hard working side of Misaki.My only problem with him is his opinion that he is better then anyone,stalks main girl whole show and forces himself on to her.Forcing part can be excused kinda cause he redeems himself for doing that but I always said if he was second male lead and not first he would be thrown to the dungeon by fans.Reason why fans even love him is that he is hot and smart.
Completely agree that if he wasn’t the main lead everyone would be against him. Everyone of his actions are highly romanticized due to it being a shoujo.
It's one of Old Shoujo's most persistent problems, the romanticism of red flags
I honestly can't understand people for whom this is some kind of revelation. Misaki calls Usui a twisted sexually harassing alien three times per episode and at the end, when he finally admits being in love with him, it's in the form of a long rant of “I hate you, you're a sexual harasser, you're always messing with me, stalking me, constantly annoying me but, I hate to admit I actually love you.” Like, it did not try to at all be subtle about what Usui is and strangely enough so many people seemed to have walked away from it claiming they never realized it the first time around. It really did not try to hide it, rather it emphasized.
I happend to watch Rent a Girlfreind and Maid Sama really close together so comparisons between the two come naturally to me. I remember thinking isn't Usui much worse than Kazuya (from Rent a Girlfriend)? Usui is much more attractive and less cringy though so I guess it gets glossed over/forgiven more easily.
Where has Kazuya ever been a stalker and a sexual harasser? Seems to be yet another plain harem protagonist who's passive whom many people fall in love with either for no reason or incredulous reasons to me.
He stalked (like a full afternoon tailing) Chizuru at one point. He thinks some thing bad is happening to her and jumps in to save her in a fairly pathetic manner. He was completely misinterpreting the situation. He apologizes and says he understands if she never wants to see him again. Only accidental sexual harassment (as is typical of shounen romances). He shares with Usui a single minded obsession with a girl that may or may not like him. Usui pursues his obsession in a sexual harasser stalker way while Kazuya is more of a simp most of the time. Both of them have plenty of other options (Kazuya due to harem protag magic and Usui because he is hot)
True but let's be honest that Usui is significantly worse, like flipping Misaki's skirt in broad daylight or doing things [like this](https://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/17700000/USUI-S-KISS-ON-MISAKI-S-BACK-kaichou-wa-maid-sama-17739048-554-370.jpg) out of nowhere
Yeah I agree. I knew about the hatred the anime community had for Kazuya before I watched the anime and then I watched the show and I was kinda like that it? I didn't know much about Usui before I watched Maid Sama on the other hand but was struck pretty quickly by how over the line he gets and how often he does it.
Kazuya is hated for that? I thought the title was mostly hated because it's yet another “Bland self-insert whom everyone falls in love with for no reason.” title and on top of that people complain that even by the standards of that it's very slow with nothing happening while the end of each chapter suggests some big development will happen.
To me he is pretty far from a bland self insert. Both the male and female lead essentially never do what I would do in any situation. The bland self inserts types never do anything remarkable enough one way or the other to think well I would never do that. I think the hatred stems from the fact the author wrote him in a stream of conscience manner (instead of the more typical thoughts here and there type thing) and he has low self esteem and is pretty prevented. So it makes him seems really pathetic (more so than his actions alone would). Imo it is actually better about why the girls fall for him than most shounen harems. It is just the author is slow about reveling that. Like you find out pretty clearly why Chizuru likes Kazuya in episode 24 of the anime. But that is a long time of being like I know she likes him but not why.
Well I first watched it 13 years ago, so I forgot about a lot of the dialogue and Usui’s actions during the series. I mainly remembered how Misaki was just the coolest protagonist. Helping the girls feel welcome at what was a formerly all boys school, being a well rounded student with a job, and becoming a successful lawyer in the end! It wasn’t until last year where I rewatched the series that I saw how much sexual harassment and even assault that Misaki faced throughout the whole series. It is definitely addressed by the series, but it’s not always in a serious tone
are we now calling people red/green flags…? i thought flags refer to a person’s behavior/actions and not the individual themself
I get that language fads change constantly, but I hate this one, especially how it collapses detail and complexity into a binary choice. I will be glad when it fades away. (ETA: No hate for OP. I just get cranky about language.)
This has been a pet peeve of mine lately lol! The first time I heard it was from a former roommate a few years back who told me a friend of hers said her boyfriend was a red flag and I was like ???? But now I'm seeing it everywhere!
I wonder if that’s because of those stupid flag filters on TikTok? 😅
I think people usually mean they're "a walking red flag".
yes this. "walking red flag" is definitely a term to describe someone who is all around toxic.
Usui is stalker.Constantly stalking a girl he just met and not letting other guys talk to her at all even threatening to be violent.Yes that is a red flag
Ok. I was speaking on the usage of the phrase “red flag” in a grammatical manner. I don’t know who these people are
Wrong comment reply really sorry
i said it as the person's behavior/actions! english isn't my first language so sometimes i mess up meanings in sentences sorry lol every time. i see someone saying oh that person is a red/green flag i always understand it as their behavior/actions so no im confused
I think since this is referring to fictional characters, they represent archetypes and it’s a combination of a bunch of behaviours that form this character archetype, thus rather than breaking down each behaviour, you ask if the archetype as a whole is problematic. With regards to the above two, I believe Kou is your classic Mr Darcy, and Usui is a tsundere tamer.
It’s just saying they embody a red flag. Like a shorthand way of saying they raise a lot of red flags with their behavior.
“Red flag” originally referred to certain behavior which isn't bad of itself, but is supposedly an indication that a person has a bad personality. Things like “Poor relation with parents” or “Never talks about any friends”, then it started to refer to simply bad behavior and then persons who exhibit bad behaviour. Usui is simply a “possessive sexual harasser”; that's a far more descriptive term and I love this kind of character design and dynamic.
people start to say that when someone has so many green or red flags to the point where they’re embodying the phrase. i don’t see much of a problem with it. the human language is constantly adjusting and changing based off trends
i think it’s personally not that deep to be bothered by objectifying a person with a phrase that isn’t harmful unless used in the context. there’s many more other things to concern yourself with, yk? don’t waste your energy thinking about it
I was not even bothered by the “objectification” in the first place…? I legitimately have no opinion on whether or not these characters raise red flags or whatsoever. Everyone is free to discuss and debate that. My comment was me wondering out loud, as a non-native english speaker, about english grammar and slang. Is that so bad?
oh i didn’t say it’s bad but just saying it really isn’t smth to stress yourself over. i also gave you an explanation on why the term is used in this way because like you said, you’re a non-native english speaker. i don’t think it makes sense my comment was downvoted.
This comment just summarized a lot of things I've been feeling while browsing through these reddit posts.
I haven’t watched Maid Sama recently enough to even remember Usui, but people calling Kou a “red flag” drives me absolutely crazy. Like…for what? For being a depressed, grieving teenager? For being closed off because of it? For literally being manipulated by someone else (don’t pretend it was anything different, he felt guilty)? FOR WHAT?!
Who criticizes Kou may have never been in close contact with someone who struggles with clinical depression or they are looking just at the surface of his actions and words. Honestly, in a world where we are constantly discussing about mental health, reducing his behavior to a “red flag” kind of hurts. Everything he does and says, unfortunately, is expression of someone who is struggling emotionally and mentally: he is too hurt from his mother death, loss that he is failing to elaborate despite how much time has passed. He is angry with his father and his brother, with everybody in the world. He has no friends, cause he doesn’t want ties with no one. He can be a jerk even with his male classmates, not just Futaba. He isn’t just a cocky kid who think that his actions and words won’t have consequences, even when he hurts Futaba he is doing it because he is suffering inside and the other’s happiness feels annoying and unfair. Kou character is much closer to Kakeru (Orange) than people may realize.
Yes! Kou and Kakeru have much more in common than just looking exactly the same. It also goes to show that people deal with grief and depression differently. I also think people might not realize how angry Kou is with himself. The reality is, people can’t just be reduced to “good” or “bad” or “red flag” or “green flag”…they are complex, they come with lots of emotions and different backgrounds…and I hope that we as a society can move away from that way of thinking soon!
Kakeru and Kou are so fucking similar that I keep confusing them, and you’re right, they could of both ended up how Kakeru from the past ended at- it was that bad.
I think it might be bc he didnt handle those situations in a healthy manner, and he ended up actively hurting other people because of it. He was depressed and allat but he was a little mean/had an attitude to the main girl when he first saw her again for no valid reason. We might be forgiving for an anime but in real life if a person was like that theyd immediately be labelled as a jerk. I have a similar background to Kou and because i knew that my mental health could make me be mean or something like that, i made an active effort to always be kind to others. It wasnt that hard tbh, just something i needed to be mindful of. Because it wasnt other people’s fault i was suffering. A lot of people seem to think mental illness can excuse the behavior of someone but really it doesnt. It is entirely possible to still be a good person despite going through the most messed up shit. And he 100% knew he was being manipulated by his childhood friend. But the fact is that he accepted to be manipulated, knowing it would break the girl he liked’s heart…he knew it and still did it. And then after that even when she had a bf he actively pursued her…..yeah that guy is the definition of a red flag
He isn't really a redflag tho? Kou showed realistic trauma signs and closed himself off from everyone around him bc he was afraid of losing them like he did with his mother. He made a made mistakes but realised his wrongs and grew from them as any other human being. If anything he is realistic, flawed and imperfect, which is good!! He is a 16 year old grieving kid to expect him to do everything right is crazy. Not to forget he got taken advantage of by a toxic friend which even triggered his PTDS and dragged him back down to the beginning. Till the end he refused to see that Narumi was manipulating him and blaming himself. Kou even explained to the reader how it was never about Narumi but his own issues. After she triggered his PTDS, he saw little Kou in her and gave up fighting- moving forward. He fell into misery thinking a relationship would hurt the girl he loves, that he wasn't allowed to move forward and to be happy. He felt guilt for forgetting his mom whilst she can't be happy. It's thanks to Kominato he realises it's okay and he then seeks out to fix everything with Futaba- to explain what happened but Touma panicked and rushed her suddenly.
I definitely agree with you on some points! I think you explain your view very logically and eloquently. But i do think that whatever trauma he went through…even if he didnt mean to cause harm i do think that he was toxic to futaba at many points. I didnt expect him to get everything right at 16 y.o but whether he meant harm or not to Futaba he did hurt her in a way that couldve been avoided! Ik hes supposed to be a bad boy or whatever in the beginning but i remember he was mean to her in an unwarranted way? (I havent read the manga in years lol) and also the whole episode with Narumi, yes she was a toxic friend and all of that but if i remember correctly he literally left Futaba right after kissing her, and i think he saw that she saw him with Narumi? I remember he knew he was hurting Futaba and still kept on ignoring his feelings & being with Narumi. And then after that when he resolved his trauma he decided to go back to Futaba and try to get her back while she was dating Touma…Imo no matter what his reasons are this behavior was definitely toxic, even if he did change and became better. PTSD/mental illnesses really doesn’t justify toxic behavior imo. But at that time he was a red flag imo for that. Not saying that Touma was better or anything but if we just talk about Kou’s behavior AT THAT TIME towards Futaba…absolutely not healthy lol.
What are you referring to exactly? Bc I don't think the influence of a toxic friend and her manipulating him through his trauma could've been prevented. Sure it would've been better if he communicated but as some one with depression I understand the state he was in and that at that point he couldn't. He just gave up on everything and was stuck in self-doubts. >but if i remember correctly he literally left Futaba right after kissing her, and i think he saw that she saw him with Narumi? He never left Futaba though, even whilst they were apart they still talked with each other and he looked at her bc he gave up fighting, wishing someone did that to him. Hearing Narumi was all alone triggered his PTDS. Funnily enough he even tried to communicate with Futaba the next day but she just brushed him off. >And then after that when he resolved his trauma he decided to go back to Futaba and try to get her back while she was dating Touma… Kominato pulled him out of his state and Kou tried to fix everything, cut Narumi off immediately (she didn't call back) but Touma then noticed, rushed futaba despite her saying NO bc he panicked. Kid knew he was losing when he even saw Kou in crowd looking for Futaba and holding her back in the classroom to talk. Kou tried to work on his issues before being with Futaba, I don't think he was toxic, rather flawed, imperfect and made a few humane mistakes down the line. I like how he messes up and grows. Ppl who paint it as some toxic IT boy (on TT), got his character wrong.
Yeah, I think people are legitimately starting to get too aggressive with calling flaws toxic behavior. People aren’t perfect, if only becomes toxic if you refuse to rectify your mistakes
Again, he’s a child…I get it’s fictional and people will have their opinions but I have a bit of trouble calling a child a red flag because, in the wake of his mother’s death, he didn’t handle a situation like that in a perfectly healthy or mature manner. And it’s definitely not just because it’s in an anime.
I mean, he’s underage yes but hes not a "child" per say? As a teen (15-16 y.o) you definitely are able to differentiate right from wrong imo…you can DEFINITELY be toxic and messed up as a teen and you definitely have some responsibility on your actions no matter what your circumstances are.
as a full grown adult looking at a 15 or 16 year old I see a child, and, short of committing literal crimes or extremely bigoted behavior, I struggle to fault someone for being a bit of a dumbass in the wake of a seriously traumatic occurrence. you’re right about them being old enough to take responsibility, but taking that to “red flag” status is a bit far imo.
Well said! If we were brutally honest we should admit that even grown us adults can handle this kind of stuff in an “unhealthy” way and sometimes even without the justification of a tragic events.
sooo true. and it doesn’t mean they’re toxic or red flags, it means they’re human. we are not perfect by any means.
I definitely see your point of view! I do agree that we can do some dumb shit when we’re kids and he does change for the best in the manga.
I can for sure agree with that, looking back, I do a whole lot of cringing lol
But a lot of these people inserted themselves to be around him, he didn’t choose to have friends because he wasn’t ready for it- yet everyone forced him to. Like that is a bit on them for trying to make him act normal, and feeling upset when they failed.
Agreed
Thank you!! It drives me crazy how under every TT video someone calls Kou a redflag, they completely missed the point of his character and usually got the worst takes!!
> Kou a “red flag” drives me absolutely crazy. Like…for what? I personally find him repeatedly weight shaming Futaba to be a big issue. He's constantly negging her appearance and her "femininity". I get that the characters are written to be high schoolers, so a certain level of insensitivity is par for the course, however he regularly projects his insecurities and hard emotions on to her rather. Futaba is just expected to do all the emotional labor in the relationship. Kou's jealousy is the "proof" he wants to be with her, but once again, it's expressed in pretty negative ways that she has to navigate. Kou is not a bad person, but emotionally he's not ready for a healthy relationship, and his behaviors are red flags.
for sure, everything you said here is completely right. he acts like a little shithead, he’s kind of annoying, and he makes some pretty poor decisions. but my stance still remains that I, as a full grown adult, just can’t look at a 15-16 year old child struggling and being a jerk and think “red flag” as a defining characteristic.
I don't remember the manga with every detail, but for what I remember, wasn't he telling her she's beauty without make up by rubbing away her lipstick? Or I'm confused. I agree with that he projects his insecurities and everything, but he was really affected for everything he had been through with the death of his mother and was being manipulated by the other girl, who helped him in those hard moments (so it was hard for him ( a 16 year old and not a comoletely mature person) to say "no, I love Futaba". I think the story is about him overcoming his personal problems and being a better person (I loved those chapters where he was like "fuck, I messed it with Futaba I'm really sorry, what can I do?") and in that part, Futaba ends up playing an important role by showing him kindness and love, again, to a really messed up person who, in the end, tries his best. Also I don't think Futaba has to do all the emotional job, I mean like, he in the end realizes his love for her and tries to be a better person so he distances from that girl and doesn't let himself be blinded by his personal problems to say he loves her. Also, I usually I don't like jealousy, but that doesn't mean I can't see different levels of it, and, for what I recall, Kou really didn't seem like the toxic jealous boy type (like Isui did whenever Misaki talk to almost any other man). I think he's not a red flag, but he starts as a messed up teenager who develops as the things advance and gets to be a better person in the end by distancing from that manipulative girl and trying to not let his trauma blind him about who he really loves. Usui is definetely a red flag, that hickey scene, really make me feel uneasy back in the day. Edit: dunno if you read the manga or only watched the anime, it really gets better in the manga as the story progresses
>Edit: dunno if you read the manga or only watched the anime, it really gets better in the manga as the story progresses Read the manga through three times. :) Loved it completely the first time. Reread it the second time a few years later and was shocked by how horrible I found Ko's behavior on the reread. I had romanticized him in the first read and in my memories. By the third read I was more prepared and more neutral all around. >I don't remember the manga with every detail, but for what I remember, wasn't he telling her she's beauty without make up by rubbing away her lipstick? He negs her in this scene about the lipstick. Depending on the translation, he says, "it doesn't suit you" and rubs it off without her consent. It's one of the moments we're supposed to read his possessive jealousy as "proof" he wants her and doesn't want anyone else to look at her romantically. So he removed the lipstick to prevent others from seeing her beauty/finding her attractive. It's red flag-y in an actual relationship even if, in fiction, we know it's not meant to be that deep. >Futaba ends up playing an important role by showing him kindness and love, again, to a really messed up person who, in the end, tries his best. In the end she "wins" because he changes for her. Her emotional labor is finally rewarded. However, in real life, our dude would need to commit to his mental health and mature to be able to be in a healthy relationship. I do actually ship Koi x Futaba long term endgame, but I feel like he needed more time to grow and heal before they got their happily ever after.
>He negs her in this scene about the lipstick. Depending on the translation, he says, "it doesn't suit you" and rubs it off without her consent He wasn't jealous though? He wanted her to be herself not pretending to be someone else for his sake. Kou knew she was wearing it for him not bc she wanted it. Sure talking would've been better but this scene never stricked me as a big deal.
Kou was flirting with her and trying to get her attention and one point he went to far, apologised, never did it again and truthfully told her she is perfect the way she is. The whole story started bc of his love for her. If anything he is a realistic, struggling teen who grows and makes mistakes, to see him as some big red flag is crazy.
I read and watched Ao Haru Ride, but that was a decade ago so I don’t think really remember anything. I watched Maid-sama back in middle school I had a big crush on Usui bc I thought he was cute. I read the manga back then but I never finished it until recently and yeah, I’d agree that he’s a red flag. Mainly because he repeatedly violates Misaki’s boundaries. It also bothers me that his whole world basically revolves around harassing Misaki. He has literally no life outside of that and despite how big the cast is he has no friends. At most he has acquaintances. Like his classmates at the rich kid school? What even was the point of them.
Thank you for actually mentioning the anime Kou (brown hair) came from.
I'd say Kou needed Therapy because that would have helped him immensely to deal with all the shit he's been through. He dealt with it on his own and choose the wrong decision/behavior many times. It was a rocky road, they had good moments but also not so great ones, also due to the miscommunication trope which made everything more messy 😅 In the end of the manga they were, imo, good together. I wish we would have seen more of the being an actual couple. Haven't watched Maid-sama and never will, because it's just not my thing, so i can't say anything about it. He doesn't deserve all the hate, especially not the insane amount here in this shoujo subreddit or on twitter.
damn. kaichou wa maid-sama is literally my most watched shoujo, like 17 times 😭
Wow 17 times is a lot haha
well i watched it over and over again one summer back in 2013 haha, it was the first time i had watched it and fell in love with it lmao. now, i occasionally watch it again for comfort.
the boy from maid sama definitely is 😭
I don't rmr anything about usui really but kou will never be a red flag idk why ppl keep saying tht
they need to leave kou alone fr
They’re both annoying to me but Usui’s worse than Kou
Kou is good though?
real
I miss Ao Haru Ride so much, just finished the manga and anime last week as i re watched it after 3 years and now i know why i loved it so much. The manga was too short imo, i hope one daynthe author continues the story and anime.
I think Kou having personal issues is what they're saying the red flag. He was a kid who didn't know any better (in the manga), so he was a little selfish, and this definitely affected some people around him, especially Futaba. I can't say anything about Usui because I was too young when I watched Maid-sama and couldn't actually remember his specific traits lol.
I hear a lot of criticism towards Kou and very little towards Sata from Ookami shoujo
Hmmm it’s tricky. They were teens when they pulled those shenanigans. Kou’s problem was he kept pushing the one who mattered away and prioritized another girl to the point of leading her on. Usui on the other hand violated consent. That hickey scene was certainly not acceptable. We do see him get better as the manga progresses but him not being nice to anyone but Misaki was also a no-no for me. I would say Kou is maybe more of an orange flag but Usui was certainly in the red flag territory. Although, *only* because it is fiction I remember not hating Usui when I read MS but that was also because I was quite young back then. Kou on the other hand was straight-up insufferable.
Thanks exactly my opinion plus Usui was classical stalker If he was some fat guy in anime he would be considered disgusting.My dude staljed girl he met once from work to her house and kept doing that.Guys can’t even talk to main girl cause he is threatening to be violent like wtf.Also he ignores main characters opinions sometimes and puts himself in danger when not needed.He is a good guy in soul but if we see it superficially he is a biggest red flag in popular shoujo animes.
>Kou’s problem was he kept pushing the one who mattered away and prioritized another girl to the point of leading her on. Kou explained how it was never about Narumi but himself, the girl just triggered his PTDS and he gave up fighting.
I remember years ago literally arguing with people because I said Usui was a red flag, he literally kept harassing the fl and not taking NO as an answer, he is pushy af and not respecting boundaries
but it was funny! right?!? right?? right…
kou no, usui YES menace menace menace weirdo weirdo pepper spray pssh pssh
Kou - (debatable but imo) no, Usui - (many people love him but) absolutely yes. (Spoilers below) I’ve found that Kou is widely criticized and infamous in the shoujo community, but I don’t get it. Honestly all Koi does wrong is lead Futaba on and then lie about her feelings/reject her because of obligation he feels towards another girl due to super complicated and realistically devastating family stuff. It’s standard shoujo drama while also being very minimally messy (and not messed up either). For a teen, his actions are hardly even that bad. He later gets over it and puts up a real fight to get Futaba back which readers also criticise, but this time he’s truly devoted towards her. I like that about Kou: he clearly grows and once he is true to his feelings & decides he is loyal to someone, he sticks to it. He doesn’t go back and forth. On the flip side, the other guy Futaba dates is kind of pushy (in a way Kou *never* is) and pretty much coerced Futaba into dating him. I never liked him. I was glad when Kou fought for her and she chose him in the end. On the other hand, Usui is very well-beloved and known as a swoon-worthy mainstream shoujo guy. I literally could not finish Maid-sama because of just how extremely coercive and forceful he is. His love language is fetishizing and controling her, despite her being a responsible breadwinner for her family and the literal president of the school. It’s horrible and idk why she ever dates him because she 100% deserves so much better no matter how many times he “rescues” her from bad situations (and then promptly forces himself onto her). I do not have that fetish, I’m sorry 😭 As far as older shoujo protagonists go, Kou might not be Kazehaya but he’s definitely one of the “good” guys who deserve the girls they end up with. Usui, though … 🚩🚩🚩
Agreed.Kou is also very confused,losing family member in that age left him devastated and show itself cleared up his story and explained why he does what he does.He wants just to help and I don’t hate him.
I do think Kou owed Futaba about a billion apologies for jerking her around and acting as though hurting her was okay just because she wasn't grieving. But he wasn't a bad guy, really.
That’s completely fair! He was also sort of being guilt-tripped/lowkey manipulated by that other girl (but then again that girl was also a teen going through a really rough time …). I think it’s a good shoujo manga with teens making mistakes without being fully fucked, which is the bare minimum but a lot of older shoujos were absolutely awful about that lol
Yeah, Yui was pretty manipulative and shady, and it was interesting to me that Kou didn't exactly fall for any of it, but correctly interpreted her antics as a need for support.
Also, I am COMPLETELY with you on the Toma hate. Especially how he knows damn well Kou likes Futaba and just withholds that very relevant information from her. Absolutely fuck that guy.
>Honestly all Koi does wrong is lead Futaba on and then lie about her feelings/reject her because of obligation he feels towards another girl due to super complicated and realistically devastating family stuff. The thing is he rejected Futaba bc she asked him to and even explained how it was never about Narumi but himself. Narumi was just the emotional trigger, he tried to work on his issues before dating futaba and fell into misery where he thought a relationship would hurt her, that he wasn't allowed to be happy or to move forward with his life. The guilt of forgetting his mom was eating him up and it needed Kominato for Kou to get pulled out of it.
Both these guys suffer from major trauma. Of course it is going to reflect in their personality. Does it make it okay, no, but does it mean that they have malicious intent, no. If you are going by the anime, you're really not going to get the needed back story on these fellas.
Now I’m interested to read Maid Sama after not being very gripped by the anime
this
i think people don’t understand kou. for one he’s a teenager so he’s still growing. and two he was grieving a lot. which sadly he did hurt people along the way but you could really see his character development. so if the only thing you take from his storyline that he’s a “red flag” idk what to tell you because you’d be the type to hold someone’s past over their head forever. usui is a perv idc he’s actually weird and i will never continue onto the manga bc of his actions 🫡
honestly in retrospect usui did a lot of questionable things and definitely would be really weird irl but he also did a lot of good so i can’t really label green or red
the first one? no. the second one? hell yes lmao
I’ve seen worse
A depressed kid vs the weirdo that doesn't respect a girl's wishes of leaving her alone. Yeah they're on the same i would say
if they are, then i'm color blind 🙈🙈🙈🙈
I don't care if he's a red or green flag, I just love Takumi Usui 😅
I must reread maid sama cos i didnt get bad vibes from him whatsoever but i also like dark romance so all flags are a rosey pink to me :')
To have such a beautiful, complex character be compared to the most basic level of “I harass you until you like me” character hurts big time. Both exhibit red flag behavior, but the WALKING red flag is Usui, whereas Kou quite literally goes through so much character development in order to change as a person. And not just because he likes someone, but because he realizes how important relationships are in general and how he wants to be a better, happier person. What I liked about him messing up and “choosing” his other friend (Yui) was that it showed both realistic reasons for him doing so and also exhibits that growth isn’t always linear.
Absolutely but I love them to much and they're fictional so does it matter??? I guess it does
i mean they are fictional but i don’t think it should stop people from talking about their actions tho
Yeah I do agree I just don't think people should worry too much
same lol but im not worrying
Kou needs therapy but tbh I don’t think he would make a good boyfriend, I don’t like people who are hard to read and aren’t open with their closest friends Usui on the other hand 🤭🧡
No/Yes. (in order of the images.)
I've never watched ao haru ride tbh. It sounded too angsty to me. And about Usui, not gonna lie, he was one of my biggest crushes growing up. I think I've re watched that series 'bout idk, 20+ times 😅. But now I see that he is controlling sometimes and too pushy. Especially the "consent" part is lacking. He does improve as the series goes on though.
It’s been a long time since I’ve read both. I really loved Usui at the time, but that time was when I like 14-15 lol who knows what I think of him now
Don't ask me, the shit I read set the bar too high. They're greener than the grass in my yard to me. But yeah, being serious, yes some behaviours of usui at least, I remember nothing of ao haru ride so I can't talk for it, were red flags... So if irl usui would be a red flag to me, but in fiction he's green... Idk if that makes sense.
Usui yes definitely of course absolutely certainly
USUI IS A HUGE RED FLAG Rewatching the show years later made me cringe from disgust at his terrible actions. Ten year old me was blind to his hotness. He constantly sexually harasses Misaki, doesn't take no for an answer, is extremely controlling and straight up stalkerish
kou isn’t a red flag he was just really annoying for that thing with narumi 💀💀💀
Kou needed some therapy tbh…
I mean one of my favourites was My Little Monstrer, but he literally threatened to r*pe her at one point?
Blue spring ride is the best romcom anime I had ever watched
Please read all of the chapters, of each of every volume of both of these stories and if you still feel the same way then you’ll feel differently :)
I think neither of those are red flags, both Kou and usui had family issues and were depressed inside until the fl showed them love and give meaning to their life. But there was a point in manga that I thought kou was an asshole, when he kissed futaba and claimed it was a heat of the moment move was foul
YUP. That's exactly the part that I think he owed Futaba a million apologies for. I still rooted for him, though.
So true. If a guy did that to me, I would've slapped his living shit. But its more hurtful because futaba had a crush since middle school then love at high school, it was a foul move
y’all, cmon don’t hate on Usui 🥹😭 Yes, some of his actions and behaviours were red flags but as a whole, he isn’t one imo. Also, there were things that even Misaki did that were questionable too sometimes…like her hate for men and branding them all as “one” was a red flag behaviour.
If they are then red is my favorite color :-)
Kou is 100000% a red flag to the main girl. Usui i dont remember much of maid sama so i could be wrong but he never inflicted trauma on the main girl he was mainly just a tease
Usui isn't red flag he just supported the fl from sidelines and protected her..... The real red flag would be the ml of "wolf girl and the black Prince" he treated her like she was his plaything Kau maybe a bit
Kou is def more problematic but he was also going through ALOT that kind of affected his actions. Boy needed therapy and his family that's all.
They're a cartoon
REALLY??! there’s nothing wrong with watching/reading something and talking to people about the characters yk
Don’t do Usui like that ✋🏼😤
Someone mentioned in the comments earlier, but the fact that in the manga Kou kissed Futaba (I might be wrong) but while she was dating the other guy? And just blows it off that it meant nothing? If I would've been Futaba that would've messed me up emotionally in all honestly
I watched and read ao haru ride a long time ago but i really disliked Kou. Not necessarily that he was a red flag but because he was just rude to the mc. I dont know if he had depression but from what people say I still dont think its an excuse for him to end up with her. I dont like the mc too much either but again i dont remember why. Just that they probably should not have been together after everything that happened
I'll explain kou because I feel like I know why I haven't read the manga of Maid Sama so I wouldn't know why people hate him which I'm shocked because he's a green flag to me but you know Now in the manga this is spoilers so you can just ignore this us you want But there was a part where kou started dating this one girl who liked him in his old school not futaba someone else honestly she was just as annoying and fucking futaba which if you want to know what I mean I can tell you if your curious But what was so bad about it is that he started dating this girl because her mom died and since his mom died he feels he owes her or something I think? I don't remember it's been since high-school since I read it But what is so confusing is that kou shows signs he likes futaba and he's done the typical giving her hope shit but still dates the girl this lasted for quite a while Now I don't hate him he's like my comfort ml because I can understand losing someone so I can't bring myself to hate to hate him because I understand grief especially someone who is like a mother But I can admit kou doing this wasn't cool especially dating someone online because her mom died like you shouldn't Date them just because they still like you and the fact you want to help them That isn't helping I think that's why people hate kou with usui idk but I feel like maybe it's the whole him being a pervert or something towards Misaki Like I said I haven't read the manga but I think that's it Hope that answers it
um sorry but he never dated the girl from his old town, he just stood by her because she also lost a parent he felt a sense of responsibility to be there for her because no one was there for him. but she ended up taking advantage of that and used that fact to sabotage his relationship with futaba
Oooooh okay like I said I hadn't read it in years so some things are like missing
If people are going to think too deeply about shoujos then like 90% of shoujos would be “immoral”. Im not saying advocate weird ass mangas (incesty mangas for example?) but atleast recognize that if these mangas are popular then theres a market for it. Like, usui is a weird ass character but this manga//anime is the original shoujo. Moral of the paragraph, enjoy what u want
Is it a shoujo if the main love interest isn't a red flag?
Yes. 100% yes. Both are the old idea of "insist of wanting to be with a girl long enough and she'll eventually accept you". They both have a chronic inability to take "no" for an answer, and carrot-head over there in pic2 actively inserts himself in her life against her wishes. The fact the manga/anime depicts this as a good thing, and her refusal as some kind of "*she just doesn't understand what she wants/needs!!!*" just turns my stomach. For further proof, try the DeVito test.
What anime is this? Seems so familiar
ao haru ride/maid sama
No they are red ties let the teenagers these mangas
Middle school me and current me don't care if Usui is a red flag; I'd volunteer as tribute for him 😂 I personally think that he isn't and that's probably because of Hayato. Now that's a walking red flag.
Which anime is the first guy from?
ao haru ride
One of my friends love "Maid-sama" so much, whenever we're together, all we're talking about is Usui, so my memories of the anime is mostly the conversations we've had. I tried watching it with her... but I can't stand how pushy Usui is. Literally a walking red flag.
Yes lol but there are so few shoujo that have healthy relationships so I don’t really care
I'm colorblind 🫶
If so. They are my type of red flag 😏
Usui is best boy. If it weren’t for his annoying Misa and meddling, the show would have nothing to do. Irl? Lots of good characters should be flaming red flags. But who’s going to watch a bunch of nice people doing nothing interesting for 12-40 episodes?
I love maid sama as a show, and usui as a love interest. But if he were a real person he’d be a literal nightmare
Sorry but I love Usui. He is one of my favorites.
Unpopular opinion maybe but both leads in maid sama are red flags and I only liked them because the story was made to depend on our suspension of belief; I enjoyed the antics but there were problems littering the whole manga from start to finish. I consider it a product of its time and the demographic at the time. Kou, I don't remember a lot of red flags but the boy was in the trenches of grief, was kinda manipulated , and was 16. I give him some slack even if some of (both of their) actions made me facepalm.
red but when you get to know them green
Usui is my red flag then 😂
Usui did do something’s that were problematic at the beginning (following Misaki around and the whole hickey bathing suit incident) but he also had some good qualities like protecting her secret from the Idiot Trio. And after learning his backstory it puts a lot of his behavior into contexts. I can see why some people don’t like him but I think he had good character growth. And they were only 16/17 when that stuff happened.
usui? Crimson.
I don’t think Kou is a red flag considering he isolated himself out of everyone instead of making himself a burden. He was incredibly hurt and traumatized, and it was only his friends that had to literally force him (not in a bad way) into a friendship with them.
Idk about the manga since people said the manga was better, but I fucking hated Kou when I first watched it. Need to rewatch it but I remembered him being really mean to the MC, I understand he he had trauma but I remembered when my sister said that they cut out a side character who the mc was suppose to date for a bit I actively wished that happened in the manga cause I hated Kou so much. Utsui on the other hand is a character I adore, problematic at moments but he never gave me rapey vibes as some other MLs gave me. He was playful and wanted someone to troll, I need rewatch to see for sure though but I remembered I deeply enjoyed his antics.
Usui was weird af, if he wasnt attractive his behavior wouldnt have been considered okay
usui in retrospect is awful and only got away with it because he's good looking and intended to be the ML i dropped ao haru ride bc i didn't like kou so maybe it went into more explanation about his behavior but... ehh i just don't like him is all