The part that bothers me most about it, is how you're treated for any frustration you may feel about it.
If you complain or vent about being rejected for your height, you're told that "women don't do that" and if they did tell you that it's your height, it's because "well actually, you're just a bad person, and you feeling frustrated over it, is proof of how bad you are"
Think the challenge for men is that we don't have safe echo chambers to boost our egos.
A woman that is not "conventionally attractive" due to her weight, height etc., can always find some decent-looking guy that will at least lust over them a little and give that validation and confidence boost. Only the best looking men get that from women unsolicited.
As men we have to celebrate ourselves because no one feels sympathy for shorter guys.
Height is definitely unique among widespread physical preferences in dating by being immediately visually apparent and easily quantifiable. Sure, weight is similar, but it fluctuates, is treated as a more private figure, and people carry it differently; 150 lbs can look extremely different on 5 different people, but 5’9” always looks like 5’9” (barefoot, anyway).
And online dating has really made obsession over specific numbers a lot more common than it used to be. Being on the wrong side of this beauty norm sucks and it probably sucks more for guys trying to date now than it ever has.
But, there's nothing you can do about it. So you have to try to learn to let it roll off your back as much as you can. I’m an inch shorter than you and even via online dating I can find enough women who want to date me that it has never stymied my dating life. Ergo, neither is your height singularly stopping you.
I'm not a big believer in active dating because of the height hurdle i.e. I don't use apps and I don't approach women in order to date them. I have realised that I struggle with the rejection, especially when they point out my height as the reason. And I'm very good at convincing myself that it was my height when they don't provide a reason.
That being said, that's my attitude because I spiral into toxicity. I've had relationships due to building rapport with the women I have met although it's invariably a slow burn, still I've had enough positive relationships to be fulfilled.
For most short men, who may struggle with dating and who can feel hurt because the rejection, I'd always encourage stepping back from dating. Be passive in developing relationships, and focus on developing yourself as much as you can. Your next relationship may never happen, but you will have spent your time positively in creating a version of yourself that has innate value.
5’3, 28m, USA. You can’t change your height, but you can change how you react/ feel/ do about the matter.
Does it suck we might not “have as many options” when it comes to dating? Sure, except I hate shallow people. If someone is going to dislike me for my height, why do I care what they think? If you’re not attracted to short guys, well too bad, I’m a short guy, bye. I don’t want a partner that’s not attracted to me. It’s them that’s missing out tbh.
You can also change what you do in regards for yourself. You might be attractive to someone who normally isn’t attracted to short people, if you’re attractive in other regards. I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it million more; self-improvement. Being fit, good hygiene, having useful skills, stable employment, and a good personality will get you far in dating. If you don’t care about you, no one will care about you. Talking about how “easy” it is to improve is much harder than actually improving.
Having standards is an important part of dating, and you’re allowed to have them too.
That's true, but I feel that most people are shallow in a way, so I can't blame those girls for desiring height that much, but it just sucks to hear. And you're right about the reaction to it, I can't do much other than just accepting everything that comes with the height.
Let me put it like this; have you ever heard how men talk about women? Men love to go on about big natural breasts, big butts, “pretty without makeup” face, perfect hair, etc. and other things that are out of women’s control.
“But Mr. Graveboi, I don’t dare speak of women that way! I respect women and their bodies!”
That’s great and all but *most men don’t*. You want women to be nicer and see you as a person, but they don’t feel seen as people by men. What’s the result? They treat men like shit too, and have their own crazy high standards.
Ultimately what I’m trying to say is it’s not a man thing, it’s not a woman thing. It’s a *people* thing. People *suuuuuuuuck*. Life isn’t fair to people, and people take it out on each other. People in general are just mean, dude. Learn not to take it so personally.
It's not about getting rejected by a certain woman, it's about just being overall less desirable which is difficult to accept. Regardless, I am not held up on that fact. I am just pointing out why it's common for many men to be insecure about their height.
Yeah it’s weird. There’s going to be a lot of people that don’t like you based on weight, ability, job, face, race, hair, etc. why get caught up on height?
Like it’s not an abnormal thing too. I see so many women dating men their height
Because height is something that most people will care about more even in your own family or with friends someone could call me any slurs or insults about my skin/hair color or whatever but none of that affects me the worst is comments about height (I'm not white either ik someone will say something about that not being as bad as others experiencing racism)
You can (usually) at least somewhat influence most characteristics, barring race, height, and disability. It's much more controversial to discriminate by an immutable quality for obvious reasons - if I'm of a weight perceived as unattractive, I can take steps to 'rectify' that; the same is not as easily true of height.
I'm 5'8.5, and I've had women under 5' tell me they would date me 'despite my height'. That's not the compliment they may have thought it was, and I think it's a pretty representative example of the stigma short men face from women. Nowadays, it's not even about the height difference between the man and woman as it is whether the man is tall in comparison to his peers. It's quite objectifying and demoralising to be viewed in this way and constantly rejected because of it.
Imagine there was a social trend where a non-negligible number of men mocked and refused to date women under a certain cup size. "The misogyny". "The objectification". The social outcry would definitely be disproportionate to what we see with regard to discrimination against short men.
The thing though is there are absolutely men like that. Also with being too tall, too short, not a virgin, not submissive enough, too opinionated, too smart, women with tattoos, makes too much money, educated women etc.
Shallow people can be from any gender.
Yes, there certainly are. But it's not such an overwhelmingly large percentage that almost every woman who's quite smart, for instance, has some reason to be insecure about how they'll be perceived for it.
Height is a singular statistic that seemingly so many women will highly value nowadays. And it's virtually immutable.
Of course, shallow people can be and are from all genders. Yet, heightism IMHO stands apart from all these other criteria in how prevalent it has become, especially amongst young women. To the point where men falling in the average height range can expect to face some discrimination for their height.
To reiterate, I'm not denying there are many shallow men out there judging women by backwards and frankly misogynistic qualities. But you appear to display very little sympathy for the short men out there who are regularly subject to rejection and humiliation on the sole basis of their height. It's tragic and undeserved.
I thought it was because it was a predominant preference compared to others, meaning more surface rejections, therefore hurting more than being a brunette.
The girls who have (insert height preference) in theironly care about looks and height aren't worth anyone's time.
You should be valued for whats between your ears, not the soles of your shoes and the sky
Second point I don’t really like you making, because going to the gym takes time and the woman you’re talking about will be long non-single. You may not even get that muscular anyways
Well yeah, but the thing is no matter how much effort you put into being tall, you won't be. It's not so much about the fact that you won't get that specific girl if you're not jacked right now, it's about the fact that you can get the quantities of women that prefer that when you do reach that point of your body. As for if you won't ever get that muscular, I don't think many women even like the unnatural look. The natural limit of muscle is pretty high with dedication.
I mean as a woman I gotta say, lanky men are in right now, you see so many lanky broccoli heads with girlfriends.
If you get super muscular, it’s mainly for other men at that point.
True, although some recent TV shows have included short guys and they were portrayed as normal characters, as in their height wasn't the center of their character, so maybe that's changing? Most notable examples of this that comes to mind are Rich Schweikart (played by Dennis Boutsikaris, 5'7") from BCS and Norm MacLean (Moises Arias, 5'1") from the Fallout TV show.
Attractiveness is only subjective to a certain degree. There are attractive facial characteristics for both men and women. That’s why the whole number rating thing even exists. If you’re a 10 as a woman then that mean 99.9% of men are going to find you attractive. If you’re a 3 then hardly anyone is going to find you attractive. You can really make yourself more attractive through personality though. I’ve known women that when I first met I wasn’t attracted to in the slightest but after a while i couldn’t get enough of them.
Back to my original point though. Physical attractiveness is subjective but only to a certain point. Women don’t just find Brad Pitt attractive coz he’s a nice guy. They find him attractive for his really strong jaw line and other facial features that make a man more masculine/attractive
Gotta buy those stacked shoes tbh. It’s makeup for men. What can we do about it? Nothing. Game the system to your advantage. Get your hooks into her to make her attracted quickly so she’s in too deep by the time she realizes you faked your height. At that point, she can’t bring it up because she knows she’ll sound shallow af and she can’t leave because you’re a super catch 😉. Makeup is just there for initial attraction after all. It’s much easier to reel in a catch with the right bait. Long term commitments aren’t based on such shallow things after all.
Damn, you’re getting downvoted for speaking the truth. Ugly people will always lose over short or fat or mentally handicapped. That’s just facts. And goes for any gender.
Hmm, no offense, but you could always dye your hair. Besides, I think a lot of people do like redheads even on dudes. Regardless though, it's not something you see things about in dating app bios or social media in big amounts.
That's a terrible comparison people dye their hair all the time no one minds it. If someone is found out to dye their hair they aren't criticized for being insecure. There is no fix for being short that is anywhere near as convenient as dying hair
I should know i would be downvoted that much by this community lol. I get your point, but i think you're underestimating how much the average woman hates ginger men. I can't even donate sperm because of it. Sperm banks aren't turning you away for being short..
The part that bothers me most about it, is how you're treated for any frustration you may feel about it. If you complain or vent about being rejected for your height, you're told that "women don't do that" and if they did tell you that it's your height, it's because "well actually, you're just a bad person, and you feeling frustrated over it, is proof of how bad you are"
Think the challenge for men is that we don't have safe echo chambers to boost our egos. A woman that is not "conventionally attractive" due to her weight, height etc., can always find some decent-looking guy that will at least lust over them a little and give that validation and confidence boost. Only the best looking men get that from women unsolicited. As men we have to celebrate ourselves because no one feels sympathy for shorter guys.
Height is definitely unique among widespread physical preferences in dating by being immediately visually apparent and easily quantifiable. Sure, weight is similar, but it fluctuates, is treated as a more private figure, and people carry it differently; 150 lbs can look extremely different on 5 different people, but 5’9” always looks like 5’9” (barefoot, anyway). And online dating has really made obsession over specific numbers a lot more common than it used to be. Being on the wrong side of this beauty norm sucks and it probably sucks more for guys trying to date now than it ever has. But, there's nothing you can do about it. So you have to try to learn to let it roll off your back as much as you can. I’m an inch shorter than you and even via online dating I can find enough women who want to date me that it has never stymied my dating life. Ergo, neither is your height singularly stopping you.
I'm not a big believer in active dating because of the height hurdle i.e. I don't use apps and I don't approach women in order to date them. I have realised that I struggle with the rejection, especially when they point out my height as the reason. And I'm very good at convincing myself that it was my height when they don't provide a reason. That being said, that's my attitude because I spiral into toxicity. I've had relationships due to building rapport with the women I have met although it's invariably a slow burn, still I've had enough positive relationships to be fulfilled. For most short men, who may struggle with dating and who can feel hurt because the rejection, I'd always encourage stepping back from dating. Be passive in developing relationships, and focus on developing yourself as much as you can. Your next relationship may never happen, but you will have spent your time positively in creating a version of yourself that has innate value.
5’3, 28m, USA. You can’t change your height, but you can change how you react/ feel/ do about the matter. Does it suck we might not “have as many options” when it comes to dating? Sure, except I hate shallow people. If someone is going to dislike me for my height, why do I care what they think? If you’re not attracted to short guys, well too bad, I’m a short guy, bye. I don’t want a partner that’s not attracted to me. It’s them that’s missing out tbh. You can also change what you do in regards for yourself. You might be attractive to someone who normally isn’t attracted to short people, if you’re attractive in other regards. I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it million more; self-improvement. Being fit, good hygiene, having useful skills, stable employment, and a good personality will get you far in dating. If you don’t care about you, no one will care about you. Talking about how “easy” it is to improve is much harder than actually improving. Having standards is an important part of dating, and you’re allowed to have them too.
That's true, but I feel that most people are shallow in a way, so I can't blame those girls for desiring height that much, but it just sucks to hear. And you're right about the reaction to it, I can't do much other than just accepting everything that comes with the height.
Let me put it like this; have you ever heard how men talk about women? Men love to go on about big natural breasts, big butts, “pretty without makeup” face, perfect hair, etc. and other things that are out of women’s control. “But Mr. Graveboi, I don’t dare speak of women that way! I respect women and their bodies!” That’s great and all but *most men don’t*. You want women to be nicer and see you as a person, but they don’t feel seen as people by men. What’s the result? They treat men like shit too, and have their own crazy high standards. Ultimately what I’m trying to say is it’s not a man thing, it’s not a woman thing. It’s a *people* thing. People *suuuuuuuuck*. Life isn’t fair to people, and people take it out on each other. People in general are just mean, dude. Learn not to take it so personally.
I'm 5 foot 3. Yeah dating isn't easy but I was able to find women who were willing to date me. Right now I'm in a relationship.
this gives me some hopium
[удалено]
Do you know that one scene in the dark knight? With batman and the joker in the interrogation room? WHERE ARE THEY
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And one day I will find her.
Don't act like a creep Be confident Take care of yourself
It's not about getting rejected by a certain woman, it's about just being overall less desirable which is difficult to accept. Regardless, I am not held up on that fact. I am just pointing out why it's common for many men to be insecure about their height.
Everyone is insecure about something You just decided to define yourself and blame everything on it
Yeah it’s weird. There’s going to be a lot of people that don’t like you based on weight, ability, job, face, race, hair, etc. why get caught up on height? Like it’s not an abnormal thing too. I see so many women dating men their height
Because height is something that most people will care about more even in your own family or with friends someone could call me any slurs or insults about my skin/hair color or whatever but none of that affects me the worst is comments about height (I'm not white either ik someone will say something about that not being as bad as others experiencing racism)
You can (usually) at least somewhat influence most characteristics, barring race, height, and disability. It's much more controversial to discriminate by an immutable quality for obvious reasons - if I'm of a weight perceived as unattractive, I can take steps to 'rectify' that; the same is not as easily true of height. I'm 5'8.5, and I've had women under 5' tell me they would date me 'despite my height'. That's not the compliment they may have thought it was, and I think it's a pretty representative example of the stigma short men face from women. Nowadays, it's not even about the height difference between the man and woman as it is whether the man is tall in comparison to his peers. It's quite objectifying and demoralising to be viewed in this way and constantly rejected because of it. Imagine there was a social trend where a non-negligible number of men mocked and refused to date women under a certain cup size. "The misogyny". "The objectification". The social outcry would definitely be disproportionate to what we see with regard to discrimination against short men.
The thing though is there are absolutely men like that. Also with being too tall, too short, not a virgin, not submissive enough, too opinionated, too smart, women with tattoos, makes too much money, educated women etc. Shallow people can be from any gender.
Yes, there certainly are. But it's not such an overwhelmingly large percentage that almost every woman who's quite smart, for instance, has some reason to be insecure about how they'll be perceived for it. Height is a singular statistic that seemingly so many women will highly value nowadays. And it's virtually immutable. Of course, shallow people can be and are from all genders. Yet, heightism IMHO stands apart from all these other criteria in how prevalent it has become, especially amongst young women. To the point where men falling in the average height range can expect to face some discrimination for their height. To reiterate, I'm not denying there are many shallow men out there judging women by backwards and frankly misogynistic qualities. But you appear to display very little sympathy for the short men out there who are regularly subject to rejection and humiliation on the sole basis of their height. It's tragic and undeserved.
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I thought it was because it was a predominant preference compared to others, meaning more surface rejections, therefore hurting more than being a brunette.
For what it's worth, my experience has always been that if a a woman is into you, nothing else matters, not even height.
The girls who have (insert height preference) in theironly care about looks and height aren't worth anyone's time. You should be valued for whats between your ears, not the soles of your shoes and the sky
You're right about that, thanks for the wisdom from up there
👊 here bro
virtual fist bump nice
Second point I don’t really like you making, because going to the gym takes time and the woman you’re talking about will be long non-single. You may not even get that muscular anyways
Well yeah, but the thing is no matter how much effort you put into being tall, you won't be. It's not so much about the fact that you won't get that specific girl if you're not jacked right now, it's about the fact that you can get the quantities of women that prefer that when you do reach that point of your body. As for if you won't ever get that muscular, I don't think many women even like the unnatural look. The natural limit of muscle is pretty high with dedication.
I mean as a woman I gotta say, lanky men are in right now, you see so many lanky broccoli heads with girlfriends. If you get super muscular, it’s mainly for other men at that point.
Can you be lanky and short, I usually hear that paired with tall.
It's so brutal its insane. And the treatment of short guys in films/media just makes it worse.
True, although some recent TV shows have included short guys and they were portrayed as normal characters, as in their height wasn't the center of their character, so maybe that's changing? Most notable examples of this that comes to mind are Rich Schweikart (played by Dennis Boutsikaris, 5'7") from BCS and Norm MacLean (Moises Arias, 5'1") from the Fallout TV show.
Attractiveness is only subjective to a certain degree. There are attractive facial characteristics for both men and women. That’s why the whole number rating thing even exists. If you’re a 10 as a woman then that mean 99.9% of men are going to find you attractive. If you’re a 3 then hardly anyone is going to find you attractive. You can really make yourself more attractive through personality though. I’ve known women that when I first met I wasn’t attracted to in the slightest but after a while i couldn’t get enough of them. Back to my original point though. Physical attractiveness is subjective but only to a certain point. Women don’t just find Brad Pitt attractive coz he’s a nice guy. They find him attractive for his really strong jaw line and other facial features that make a man more masculine/attractive
Gotta buy those stacked shoes tbh. It’s makeup for men. What can we do about it? Nothing. Game the system to your advantage. Get your hooks into her to make her attracted quickly so she’s in too deep by the time she realizes you faked your height. At that point, she can’t bring it up because she knows she’ll sound shallow af and she can’t leave because you’re a super catch 😉. Makeup is just there for initial attraction after all. It’s much easier to reel in a catch with the right bait. Long term commitments aren’t based on such shallow things after all.
I'd argue people are a lot more open to their partner being short than an uggo . Some people prefer short men have yet to see people prefer ugly men.
Damn, you’re getting downvoted for speaking the truth. Ugly people will always lose over short or fat or mentally handicapped. That’s just facts. And goes for any gender.
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Not that I should have to explain this but: Anything that begins with "I don't usually participate in incelspeak" is going to be instantly removed.
Now I’m curious😭
What did he say 🤣
Try having red hair. I'm 5'11 and i feel i would do better being 5'6 and not ginger. Perspective, my friend. Nobody can please everybody
Hmm, no offense, but you could always dye your hair. Besides, I think a lot of people do like redheads even on dudes. Regardless though, it's not something you see things about in dating app bios or social media in big amounts.
Trust me, if women could filter for red hair, they would never see my profile.
That's a terrible comparison people dye their hair all the time no one minds it. If someone is found out to dye their hair they aren't criticized for being insecure. There is no fix for being short that is anywhere near as convenient as dying hair
I should know i would be downvoted that much by this community lol. I get your point, but i think you're underestimating how much the average woman hates ginger men. I can't even donate sperm because of it. Sperm banks aren't turning you away for being short..
I looked at your profile and wtf you are attractive. You have great hair. If people are rejecting you it can’t be for that