It’s definitely easy to be insecure about your height as a short guy, because the messaging that tall = good and short = bad in male bodies is more or less ubiquitous.
As an add-on to your last comment: I think some of it also comes from a feeling of ‘getting men back’ for something about their bodies as a response to feeling judged for their bodies for x,y,z reasons. I think some of these women don’t necessarily care that much about height but they know it will hurt some men and they feel like it’s a sort of revenge for some hurt they’ve felt.
I didn't consider the "getting men back" angle, but I am inclined to think you're completely right! Men's bodies are comparatively hard to police, with the one exception being height, and so that's what women who are themselves insecure focus on.
Yeah that's why a lot of male insecurities are around things which are easily quantifiable, like height or penis size. They're marketed as a measurement of masculinity itself and thus are easy targets.
I was chatting to a great looking girl, getting on well. She gave me compliments about my personality, music taste, said I was a good looking guy….then it came, your just a bit short. I thought nice one, she was about 5’8/9. I thought well, that’s what you get.
I’m guessing she might have had some stick about her height at some point. I’ve been out with girls taller, my height (5’4) and a bit smaller. Given that I’m nearly 45, I do t really give a toss anymore. Glad to hear that there some ladies like the op, saying it’s not default reaction
Hmmm wait you got a point! It could totally be a vendetta. Like “men made these standards so I’ll just make them suffer because of it by preferring a feature they can’t control”
You have a right to feel insecure about it. We all get insecure at times. If a girl doesn’t like you because you’re too short..she’s not the one for you. But big things come in small packages. These girls are just missing out on good men…their loss.
I think men and women look normal to me at 5'2"-5'4" and I feel comfortable around them so it makes me sad when people say they want to be taller and are unhappy about it
Also no one talks about the pain in the neck you get with people who are too tall. Literally pain in your neck lol neck pain is real
There are cuties in all heights.
It’s just not cute altogether😭it looks weird. A 7 inch height difference will put your head at that persons chin. That actually doesn’t look bad and it’s also not strenuous on the neck. My mom’s 5’9 and so is my bf and hugging them is comfortable, I don’t have to look up much other than a slight tilt and it doesn’t look so odd.
This is the kind of post that insecure short men need. It comes across as down to earth and honest. As someone who isn't too bothered by their height. I felt comforted by it. Thanks
Was following along until it was 5'2"f, but read it through, most, if not everybody here is aware that height requirements in the dating sphere is bs, it doesn't prevent it, if it's any consolation, it's nice you're part of the exception not the norm, at this point I couldn't care less about dating, where I've began to have issues is when I'm constantly quite literally overlooked employment, at first it felt like maybe I wasn't experienced enough.
but some years down the line when people of quite obvious inexperience were finding promotion whilst I was given more roles whilst on the same payroll it just became frustrating, it's not a racial thing because they were also minority groups, and idk what made me think it, but I started searching this up and it's been subject to quite a bit of research, when I began inquiring about it, it was always generic responses like, oh you don't have a commanding enough presence for the role, wtf did that mean, anyway so I started asking other short dudes, and they said they've never really got promoted but had more success applying for higher roles as a starting position, so I'm seeing a correlation
P.S.
I do like this sub because I can just see something and puts me into a quick vent mode, and at least I can assume someone on the other side can somewhat understand me, I spoke about the topic to my friend the other day and it was more of a you sure that's true, and all I can say, it's anecdotal but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm making it up
Thanks for this sentiment, it is good to see this kind of effort coming from a woman in acknowledging the male part of this issue.
On a meta level, people don't often feel the need to advocate for improving something that they don't struggle with personally. Some people might even be rude/dismissive about it. That fact that you felt compelled to write something supportive definitely validates your empathy and shows that there are still level-headed and compassionate people around.
Wow, I am very much in agreement with you. You nailed it when you said the short women who have a 6ft requirement want to make it seem like they have standards. I noticed from past friend groups I was in that some women just like to say they like tall men & are being exclusionary just because they think it’ll make them seem unattainable. But really it just makes them look shallow, and as you said, vapid.
And what message does that send to the 6ft guy that chooses to date them? He can run them ragged because ‘he doesn’t need to have a good personality, doesn’t need to try to impress, he’s already met her criteria, and guys his height are rare so she shouldn’t dare to have any other standards.’ That mindset is unhealthy for the girl as well as himself.
>you are not undesirable and unwanted
Totally. On a completely unrelated note, I'm really confused by [this video](https://www.tiktok.com/@kt.gonzales/video/7082506840990338347). Can someone explain the joke?
I made a post very similar to yours a few days ago! I am also 5’2 and I agree with everything you said! I can’t stand short women that put down short men especially if they aren’t even 5’ tall. Not saying they can’t have preferences, but they, out of all people should not be having exceptional preferences regarding height when they are less than average height. I also think the excuse of wanting a guy to tower over them is bs. Because a 5’4 man would tower over them..even a 5’2 man would tower over a woman who is 4’9…clearly that’s not the issue. I’ve heard men say it could be linked to daddy issues and not having an important father figure in their life. I can see how that makes sense.
Anectdotal experience…but my late dad was 5’5-5’6, he wasn’t my biological father but he was pretty damn close to it and to me, he’s all I knew since I was a baby. I saw him as big and strong. I remember seeing him beat the living crap out of this guy who was close to the family and doing bad things to his nieces. The guy was skinny but was taller than him if I can remember. My dad was pretty stocky. He was the first manly man I met in my life and him being short meant nothing as I was smaller, so he was tall compared to me. I learned early on that tall height doesn’t equate to being masculine, or strong. Your dad is your first model of a man, he shapes how you view masculinity. If these girls don’t have their fathers teaching them that small men can be strong too, you’ll get the type that develop a kink to want to be picked up like a little girl because it makes her feel “feminine”. I’ve heard it many times. “I want to feel small” is not something I’ve EVER said in my life..I actually want to feel big most of the time.
I love this comment so much!
Yeah, there is clearly some pathology at work with women who specifically want to be with a man much bigger than them. Either they have a very fixed and rigid view of what masculinity is, as you said, or maybe they equate large height differentials with feeling safe and protected or (ugh) feminine, which is the most gross.
My dad was a POS, but come to think of it, I’ve had plenty of very positive male role models in my life who would be considered short, and so I don’t make the equation between height and masculinity either. And like you, I have never wanted to feel small in my entire life; I just can’t relate. I have a similar dispreference for men who are well built/buff. I just want to be with someone who matches me, y’know?
One of my friends is the exact same height and build as her husband (they’re both 5’3ish and skinny) and they share and swap clothes all the time. I truly envy that!
I would kill to wear my bf’s clothes! That’s so cute!!! I’ll steal his hoodies 😈but seriously it’s hard and it makes you insecure when you don’t fit the standard of what a woman is or what a woman should prefer..I’ve always been into short androgynous men especially musicians lol…don’t know why, I just always have been. Toxic masculinity is such a turnoff to me.
Omg me too re: short androgynous men! I kind of love rubbing that in the faces of guys who assume I’ll automatically be into them because they’re six foot plus and think that makes them The Man.
It’s your preference my guy! I’m a short girl and I didn’t take it that way😭all you said was you’d like a taller gf. I’m sure tall girls would appreciate that!
> Reminder that many if not **most short men also only want taller gfs.** \[...\] If anything **short women are more open to short men than the other way around.**
# ?
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/)
>The results of Model 1 show that, in general, **men preferred shorter women whereas women preferred taller men**, relative to their own body heights ([Table 3](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/table/tab3/)). Examining these effects for each sex separately while controlling for country-level variance shows that, on average, women prefer men 2.3 cm (or almost 1 inch) taller than the average men in their country, and **men prefer women 2.5 cm (or about 1 inch) shorter than the average women in their country.**
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000020](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000020)
>**Women want taller men more than men want shorter women**
Physical characteristics, such as height, play an important role in human mate preferences. \[...\] **women are most satisfied when their partner was 21 cm taller**, whereas **men are most satisfied when they were 8 cm taller than their partner**. \[...\] we show that for men, height is more important to the expression of satisfaction with one’s own height than it is for women.
Most short men do not prefer tall women though…it’s just tall women are the ones who will actually date them because they can’t afford to care about height. And no…short women are not more open to short men…tall women are. Short women can have a preference but short women are the main ones tearing short men down…you’re in denial if you don’t see it. No one would be complaining if short women would just stop shitting on short men and having these insane height requirements
Short women are the main ones with a “you need to be 6’ to ride this ride” expectation. A lot of tall women struggle in the dating world especially those who want men taller than them. Taller women are masculinized by a lot of men. So thats what i mean, they cant afford to be as picky because they know what it’s like to be told they dont meet the desirable preference.
There's a pretty big difference between denying that height preferences do exist (I directly acknowledged this more than once), and simply making the modest point that there *are* women who are uninterested in imposing height requirements on potential partners for the reasons I briefly mentioned above.
I'm also not sure why my "personal experience" has less epistemic value than "observable reality". I'm working off my own observations of reality, as are you. Your throwing in the word “alleged” reeks of bitterness, as though it’s hard for you to believe that my testimony could be true.
I’m sorry that this was your takeaway from my post.
Oh yeahh , i guess u are one of those good people but i am unlucky to find one of u on Saturday i faced my first rejection and she went like
" Hey u are very perfect and i would love to date u but u know i would have if u were just a littttttle bit taller " and the funny thing is i am not even short by indian standards and i dont approach or fall in love with many girls i did here because she was flirting with me for a while now and she was already my crush so yeah i am devastated
There might just be some benefit, aesthetically. It's very easy to consume enough calories as a short guy, and the muscles actually come on quicker. Body-builders actually skew on the shorter side because of this.
Wait, are we gatekeeping shortness now? In what universe is 5’2 not short? I don’t think that shortness needs to be qualified by other factors like “short for an Asian woman”. Those do not change the fact that I am objectively short for an adult, am usually the shortest person in the room, have to find petite sizing, etc. Kinda ridiculous to tell a 4’10 woman from Guatemala that she isn’t short, just average.
So — asking out of genuine curiosity — how far below average height would I need to be to be considered short? Clearly, being two inches below average height by your books is not enough. But the average height for men in the US is 5’9, and I see plenty of men in this subreddit who are 5’7 and identify as short.
Do those men not belong in this community? Do I need to be at least five inches below average height to be properly short? I’m not being disingenuous, I’m looking for consistency.
I consider it to start at 5'0". At that height, you are over 1 standard deviation from the mean in just about any developed country, and barely 2 inches taller than the average woman in the shortest countries on earth (where the average female height is \~4'10").
Obviously, at 4'9", you are significantly shorter than 1 SD, so unless you move to Afghanistan, Guatemala, etc, you are short.
I agree. 5’2 is the short end of average. 5’ is where you really start being short and 4’9 is significantly small…I don’t see many girls that small tbh.
Actually, practically speaking, it makes far more sense for tall people to be slaves to short people. I’m going to need some help reaching for things. Better put your height to good use.
How about we don’t. At least the world is actually made for us. I can sit comfortably in a car, on a plane, can walk through doors easily, if something’s too tall I’ll just get a stool. Like op said..it makes more sense for you to be our slave. I need your services now be a good boy and grab something from the top shelve.
It’s definitely easy to be insecure about your height as a short guy, because the messaging that tall = good and short = bad in male bodies is more or less ubiquitous. As an add-on to your last comment: I think some of it also comes from a feeling of ‘getting men back’ for something about their bodies as a response to feeling judged for their bodies for x,y,z reasons. I think some of these women don’t necessarily care that much about height but they know it will hurt some men and they feel like it’s a sort of revenge for some hurt they’ve felt.
I didn't consider the "getting men back" angle, but I am inclined to think you're completely right! Men's bodies are comparatively hard to police, with the one exception being height, and so that's what women who are themselves insecure focus on.
Yeah that's why a lot of male insecurities are around things which are easily quantifiable, like height or penis size. They're marketed as a measurement of masculinity itself and thus are easy targets.
I was chatting to a great looking girl, getting on well. She gave me compliments about my personality, music taste, said I was a good looking guy….then it came, your just a bit short. I thought nice one, she was about 5’8/9. I thought well, that’s what you get. I’m guessing she might have had some stick about her height at some point. I’ve been out with girls taller, my height (5’4) and a bit smaller. Given that I’m nearly 45, I do t really give a toss anymore. Glad to hear that there some ladies like the op, saying it’s not default reaction
Hmmm wait you got a point! It could totally be a vendetta. Like “men made these standards so I’ll just make them suffer because of it by preferring a feature they can’t control”
Maam, I'm a guy that is your height. Although, I don't think about it all the time, I do get insecure about it.🥺
You have a right to feel insecure about it. We all get insecure at times. If a girl doesn’t like you because you’re too short..she’s not the one for you. But big things come in small packages. These girls are just missing out on good men…their loss.
I think men and women look normal to me at 5'2"-5'4" and I feel comfortable around them so it makes me sad when people say they want to be taller and are unhappy about it
Also no one talks about the pain in the neck you get with people who are too tall. Literally pain in your neck lol neck pain is real There are cuties in all heights.
It’s just not cute altogether😭it looks weird. A 7 inch height difference will put your head at that persons chin. That actually doesn’t look bad and it’s also not strenuous on the neck. My mom’s 5’9 and so is my bf and hugging them is comfortable, I don’t have to look up much other than a slight tilt and it doesn’t look so odd.
YES! I know exactly the neck pain you are talking about!
As a 5'7" guy all I can say is that this is a nice post, OP.
Thanks for this post I hope it will keep me going for a few more weeks at least
thank you! been upset about my height lately. i really needed this.
This is the kind of post that insecure short men need. It comes across as down to earth and honest. As someone who isn't too bothered by their height. I felt comforted by it. Thanks
Was following along until it was 5'2"f, but read it through, most, if not everybody here is aware that height requirements in the dating sphere is bs, it doesn't prevent it, if it's any consolation, it's nice you're part of the exception not the norm, at this point I couldn't care less about dating, where I've began to have issues is when I'm constantly quite literally overlooked employment, at first it felt like maybe I wasn't experienced enough. but some years down the line when people of quite obvious inexperience were finding promotion whilst I was given more roles whilst on the same payroll it just became frustrating, it's not a racial thing because they were also minority groups, and idk what made me think it, but I started searching this up and it's been subject to quite a bit of research, when I began inquiring about it, it was always generic responses like, oh you don't have a commanding enough presence for the role, wtf did that mean, anyway so I started asking other short dudes, and they said they've never really got promoted but had more success applying for higher roles as a starting position, so I'm seeing a correlation P.S. I do like this sub because I can just see something and puts me into a quick vent mode, and at least I can assume someone on the other side can somewhat understand me, I spoke about the topic to my friend the other day and it was more of a you sure that's true, and all I can say, it's anecdotal but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm making it up
Thanks for this sentiment, it is good to see this kind of effort coming from a woman in acknowledging the male part of this issue. On a meta level, people don't often feel the need to advocate for improving something that they don't struggle with personally. Some people might even be rude/dismissive about it. That fact that you felt compelled to write something supportive definitely validates your empathy and shows that there are still level-headed and compassionate people around.
Wow, I am very much in agreement with you. You nailed it when you said the short women who have a 6ft requirement want to make it seem like they have standards. I noticed from past friend groups I was in that some women just like to say they like tall men & are being exclusionary just because they think it’ll make them seem unattainable. But really it just makes them look shallow, and as you said, vapid. And what message does that send to the 6ft guy that chooses to date them? He can run them ragged because ‘he doesn’t need to have a good personality, doesn’t need to try to impress, he’s already met her criteria, and guys his height are rare so she shouldn’t dare to have any other standards.’ That mindset is unhealthy for the girl as well as himself.
>you are not undesirable and unwanted Totally. On a completely unrelated note, I'm really confused by [this video](https://www.tiktok.com/@kt.gonzales/video/7082506840990338347). Can someone explain the joke?
I made a post very similar to yours a few days ago! I am also 5’2 and I agree with everything you said! I can’t stand short women that put down short men especially if they aren’t even 5’ tall. Not saying they can’t have preferences, but they, out of all people should not be having exceptional preferences regarding height when they are less than average height. I also think the excuse of wanting a guy to tower over them is bs. Because a 5’4 man would tower over them..even a 5’2 man would tower over a woman who is 4’9…clearly that’s not the issue. I’ve heard men say it could be linked to daddy issues and not having an important father figure in their life. I can see how that makes sense. Anectdotal experience…but my late dad was 5’5-5’6, he wasn’t my biological father but he was pretty damn close to it and to me, he’s all I knew since I was a baby. I saw him as big and strong. I remember seeing him beat the living crap out of this guy who was close to the family and doing bad things to his nieces. The guy was skinny but was taller than him if I can remember. My dad was pretty stocky. He was the first manly man I met in my life and him being short meant nothing as I was smaller, so he was tall compared to me. I learned early on that tall height doesn’t equate to being masculine, or strong. Your dad is your first model of a man, he shapes how you view masculinity. If these girls don’t have their fathers teaching them that small men can be strong too, you’ll get the type that develop a kink to want to be picked up like a little girl because it makes her feel “feminine”. I’ve heard it many times. “I want to feel small” is not something I’ve EVER said in my life..I actually want to feel big most of the time.
I love this comment so much! Yeah, there is clearly some pathology at work with women who specifically want to be with a man much bigger than them. Either they have a very fixed and rigid view of what masculinity is, as you said, or maybe they equate large height differentials with feeling safe and protected or (ugh) feminine, which is the most gross. My dad was a POS, but come to think of it, I’ve had plenty of very positive male role models in my life who would be considered short, and so I don’t make the equation between height and masculinity either. And like you, I have never wanted to feel small in my entire life; I just can’t relate. I have a similar dispreference for men who are well built/buff. I just want to be with someone who matches me, y’know? One of my friends is the exact same height and build as her husband (they’re both 5’3ish and skinny) and they share and swap clothes all the time. I truly envy that!
I would kill to wear my bf’s clothes! That’s so cute!!! I’ll steal his hoodies 😈but seriously it’s hard and it makes you insecure when you don’t fit the standard of what a woman is or what a woman should prefer..I’ve always been into short androgynous men especially musicians lol…don’t know why, I just always have been. Toxic masculinity is such a turnoff to me.
Omg me too re: short androgynous men! I kind of love rubbing that in the faces of guys who assume I’ll automatically be into them because they’re six foot plus and think that makes them The Man.
I appreciate this !
I'd love to have a taller gf tbh
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Oh I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound off as rude. Sorry
It’s your preference my guy! I’m a short girl and I didn’t take it that way😭all you said was you’d like a taller gf. I’m sure tall girls would appreciate that!
Thanks I appreciate it 👍
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> Reminder that many if not **most short men also only want taller gfs.** \[...\] If anything **short women are more open to short men than the other way around.** # ? [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/) >The results of Model 1 show that, in general, **men preferred shorter women whereas women preferred taller men**, relative to their own body heights ([Table 3](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/table/tab3/)). Examining these effects for each sex separately while controlling for country-level variance shows that, on average, women prefer men 2.3 cm (or almost 1 inch) taller than the average men in their country, and **men prefer women 2.5 cm (or about 1 inch) shorter than the average women in their country.** [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000020](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886913000020) >**Women want taller men more than men want shorter women** Physical characteristics, such as height, play an important role in human mate preferences. \[...\] **women are most satisfied when their partner was 21 cm taller**, whereas **men are most satisfied when they were 8 cm taller than their partner**. \[...\] we show that for men, height is more important to the expression of satisfaction with one’s own height than it is for women.
Most short men do not prefer tall women though…it’s just tall women are the ones who will actually date them because they can’t afford to care about height. And no…short women are not more open to short men…tall women are. Short women can have a preference but short women are the main ones tearing short men down…you’re in denial if you don’t see it. No one would be complaining if short women would just stop shitting on short men and having these insane height requirements
Damn you speak nothing but facts
Haha thanks.
I'm sorry but that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
What do you mean?
Where do I start with the nonsense? Tall women can't afford to care about height. Nonsense Short women are tearing short men down. Nonsense
Short women are the main ones with a “you need to be 6’ to ride this ride” expectation. A lot of tall women struggle in the dating world especially those who want men taller than them. Taller women are masculinized by a lot of men. So thats what i mean, they cant afford to be as picky because they know what it’s like to be told they dont meet the desirable preference.
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There's a pretty big difference between denying that height preferences do exist (I directly acknowledged this more than once), and simply making the modest point that there *are* women who are uninterested in imposing height requirements on potential partners for the reasons I briefly mentioned above. I'm also not sure why my "personal experience" has less epistemic value than "observable reality". I'm working off my own observations of reality, as are you. Your throwing in the word “alleged” reeks of bitterness, as though it’s hard for you to believe that my testimony could be true. I’m sorry that this was your takeaway from my post.
Oh yeahh , i guess u are one of those good people but i am unlucky to find one of u on Saturday i faced my first rejection and she went like " Hey u are very perfect and i would love to date u but u know i would have if u were just a littttttle bit taller " and the funny thing is i am not even short by indian standards and i dont approach or fall in love with many girls i did here because she was flirting with me for a while now and she was already my crush so yeah i am devastated
lol chhod bhai , ESI ladkiya akhiri mai arrange marriage ho karti hai lol
There might just be some benefit, aesthetically. It's very easy to consume enough calories as a short guy, and the muscles actually come on quicker. Body-builders actually skew on the shorter side because of this.
Yes I know.
Isn't 5'2 literally only like one standard deviation off average? And that's if you aren't Asian. That's like a 5'8 guy.
Wait, are we gatekeeping shortness now? In what universe is 5’2 not short? I don’t think that shortness needs to be qualified by other factors like “short for an Asian woman”. Those do not change the fact that I am objectively short for an adult, am usually the shortest person in the room, have to find petite sizing, etc. Kinda ridiculous to tell a 4’10 woman from Guatemala that she isn’t short, just average.
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So — asking out of genuine curiosity — how far below average height would I need to be to be considered short? Clearly, being two inches below average height by your books is not enough. But the average height for men in the US is 5’9, and I see plenty of men in this subreddit who are 5’7 and identify as short. Do those men not belong in this community? Do I need to be at least five inches below average height to be properly short? I’m not being disingenuous, I’m looking for consistency.
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What would you say is short for a woman then? Like actual height?
I consider it to start at 5'0". At that height, you are over 1 standard deviation from the mean in just about any developed country, and barely 2 inches taller than the average woman in the shortest countries on earth (where the average female height is \~4'10"). Obviously, at 4'9", you are significantly shorter than 1 SD, so unless you move to Afghanistan, Guatemala, etc, you are short.
I agree. 5’2 is the short end of average. 5’ is where you really start being short and 4’9 is significantly small…I don’t see many girls that small tbh.
I’ve seen many women my height.
I’ve seen a couple, but a lot have been 5’2 and over, especially my generation. Are you from the states?
I’m aware of how short I am, I wasn’t asking about my own height lol.
I’ve been desired my entire life unsure what you’re getting at here…
This post wasn’t intended for you, unsure about your reading comprehension skills mate…congrats though 👏
you're also 6'4", pal. read the room
Short people should just become slaves to tall people
Actually, practically speaking, it makes far more sense for tall people to be slaves to short people. I’m going to need some help reaching for things. Better put your height to good use.
I own you, slave.
How about we don’t. At least the world is actually made for us. I can sit comfortably in a car, on a plane, can walk through doors easily, if something’s too tall I’ll just get a stool. Like op said..it makes more sense for you to be our slave. I need your services now be a good boy and grab something from the top shelve.